collapse

* Resources


UDM 4

* Recent Posts

How many years will Dawson play at MU? by Galway Eagle
[November 28, 2020, 11:58:55 PM]


General Big East Thread 20-21 by GB Warrior
[November 28, 2020, 11:38:45 PM]


Is this Wojo's best TEAM? by Shooter McGavin
[November 28, 2020, 11:12:15 PM]


So....What are we ranked on Monday - 2/24/2020 by MU82
[November 28, 2020, 10:26:11 PM]


Lewis tweets by MU24
[November 28, 2020, 10:07:04 PM]


Stan Johnson is new LMU Head Coach by Newsdreams
[November 28, 2020, 09:52:44 PM]


Coaches Looking For Games (on Twitter) by shoothoops
[November 28, 2020, 08:58:20 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!


Author Topic: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA  (Read 9295 times)

GooooMarquette

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8086
  • Person Woman Man Camera TV!
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #225 on: August 21, 2020, 04:24:32 PM »
We should have never invented cars in the first place. Think of all the stage coach drivers and blacksmiths that were thrown out of work.

And the train engineers!

Interesting side story: My grandpa was a streetcar conductor in Milwaukee, and when the city converted from streetcars to buses, he finished his career as a bus driver.

buckchuckler

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 893
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #226 on: August 21, 2020, 04:28:14 PM »
The problem is that 99% of online car "buying" is just a front end to old fashioned dealerships. It is just fancy new advertising for the same old experience.

Now, I will say that there have been some improvements to the process....like no haggle pricing and being able to compare prices across many more dealers. But you still have to have the sucky buying experience of going into a dealer, sitting around for five hours while some guy tries to upsell you on financing, a service plan, and an extended warranty you don't need.
They are starting to do a lot of this stuff online too.  A very recent development.

And I'm not sure no haggle pricing is always a benefit.  As noted in this thread, places like Carmax, are no haggle, and they normally sell for higher prices than other outlets.  No haggle is only a benefit if you are uncomfortable negotiating.
Their= possessive of they
They're= slightly shorter than "they are"
There= the opposite of here

Coleman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3114
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #227 on: August 21, 2020, 04:29:02 PM »

And I'm not sure no haggle pricing is always a benefit.  As noted in this thread, places like Carmax, are no haggle, and they normally sell for higher prices than other outlets.  No haggle is only a benefit if you are uncomfortable negotiating.

I agree. The concept is an improvement, but they are rarely priced competitively.

It is not that I am uncomfortable haggling, it is just that the dog and pony show of the sales guy having to go ask the manager, and as a buyer being willing to walk out before they call you back with a better price, gets old. We all have better ways to spend our time.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 04:30:50 PM by Coleman »

jesmu84

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4998
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #228 on: August 21, 2020, 08:32:13 PM »
I happen to believe dealerships are outdated. And that belief has nothing to do with any experience at a dealership. In fact, the 3 times I've purchased, I've been very happy with my customer service.

I also don't think dealerships should be forced out of existence.

But if a company wants to sell direct, they should be allowed to.

And I don't think it can be argued that dealerships add cost the car buying experience. Otherwise, they couldn't exist financially.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 14170
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #229 on: August 21, 2020, 09:56:50 PM »
When we wanted to buy a 2007 Prius back then, they were still a very much in demand car, and they routinely sold for over list. We decided to use Costco's car-buying service. You go through Costco, fill out the form saying what you want, they set you up with a dealer that has agreed to a price, and you get the car for that. We got the Prius for $200 under list, which was very good back then (we wouldn't have been interested except there was a $2,600 federal hybrid tax credit back then).

We haven't used Costco since, but I would definitely do it if I had my heart set on a very popular model that dealers weren't discounting. For example, I've heard that the Kia Telluride is like that now.
“None of these steps we’re asking people to take are political statements. Every one of them is based on science, real science. ... I know the country has grown weary of the fight. We need to remember we’re at war with the virus, not with one another.”

-- President Joe Biden

warriorchick

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7084
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #230 on: August 22, 2020, 07:53:36 AM »



And I don't think it can be argued that dealerships add cost the car buying experience. Otherwise, they couldn't exist financially.

What are you talking about?  They exist because there is no other option when you want to buy a new car.
Have some patience, FFS.

jesmu84

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4998
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #231 on: August 22, 2020, 10:01:37 AM »
What are you talking about?  They exist because there is no other option when you want to buy a new car.

In my ideal, you could by direct from the manufacturer or go to a dealership.

But also, dealerships have to make money on their transactions, otherwise they wouldn't be financially viable. So they must, somehow, add money to the transaction that otherwise wouldn't be there if sold directly from manufacturer.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 14170
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #232 on: August 22, 2020, 11:45:35 AM »
In my ideal, you could by direct from the manufacturer or go to a dealership.

But also, dealerships have to make money on their transactions, otherwise they wouldn't be financially viable. So they must, somehow, add money to the transaction that otherwise wouldn't be there if sold directly from manufacturer.

Yep.

As I tell my wife when we are in the middle of negotiations and the salesman stands up to get the business manager: "They won't let us buy this car if they don't make money on it. If they let us get up and walk out, we know we're below that money-making price." That gives us knowledge to resume negotiations either at that dealer or with the next one.

“None of these steps we’re asking people to take are political statements. Every one of them is based on science, real science. ... I know the country has grown weary of the fight. We need to remember we’re at war with the virus, not with one another.”

-- President Joe Biden

buckchuckler

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 893
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #233 on: August 22, 2020, 01:09:44 PM »
Yep.

As I tell my wife when we are in the middle of negotiations and the salesman stands up to get the business manager: "They won't let us buy this car if they don't make money on it. If they let us get up and walk out, we know we're below that money-making price." That gives us knowledge to resume negotiations either at that dealer or with the next one.

That isn't necessarily true.  Dealers sell cars at an initial loss quite frequently.  Typically they make their money by hitting goals set by the manufacturer and getting bonuses for hitting those numbers.  So one way or another they make money on it, but it isn't necessarily off the customer.

And of course dealerships have to make money to be viable.  You could say the same thing about literally any sales channel.  Not exactly rocket science.  But if manufacturers sold direct to customers there would be added costs in that model too.
Their= possessive of they
They're= slightly shorter than "they are"
There= the opposite of here

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 14170
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #234 on: August 22, 2020, 01:18:08 PM »
That isn't necessarily true.  Dealers sell cars at an initial loss quite frequently.  Typically they make their money by hitting goals set by the manufacturer and getting bonuses for hitting those numbers.  So one way or another they make money on it, but it isn't necessarily off the customer.

And of course dealerships have to make money to be viable.  You could say the same thing about literally any sales channel.  Not exactly rocket science.  But if manufacturers sold direct to customers there would be added costs in that model too.

Thanks for that info, buck.
“None of these steps we’re asking people to take are political statements. Every one of them is based on science, real science. ... I know the country has grown weary of the fight. We need to remember we’re at war with the virus, not with one another.”

-- President Joe Biden

Spaniel with a Short Tail

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2086
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #235 on: August 22, 2020, 02:47:49 PM »
When we wanted to buy a 2007 Prius back then, they were still a very much in demand car, and they routinely sold for over list. We decided to use Costco's car-buying service. You go through Costco, fill out the form saying what you want, they set you up with a dealer that has agreed to a price, and you get the car for that. We got the Prius for $200 under list, which was very good back then (we wouldn't have been interested except there was a $2,600 federal hybrid tax credit back then).

We haven't used Costco since, but I would definitely do it if I had my heart set on a very popular model that dealers weren't discounting. For example, I've heard that the Kia Telluride is like that now.

Stupid Prius.






GooooMarquette

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8086
  • Person Woman Man Camera TV!
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #236 on: August 22, 2020, 03:56:53 PM »

That isn't necessarily true.  Dealers sell cars at an initial loss quite frequently.  Typically they make their money by hitting goals set by the manufacturer and getting bonuses for hitting those numbers.  So one way or another they make money on it, but it isn't necessarily off the customer.



This is why I find it amusing when manufacturers advertise a given vehicle as “the number one selling [midsize/SUV/pickup] in America.“ After all, the number one selling vehicle is simply going to be the one that is manufactured in the highest numbers. Eventually it will sell, whether at MSRP or some reduced rate, but the manufacturer is not going to be left holding on sold cars at the end of the day.

I understand that sound business practices would require matching manufacturing to anticipated demand. But as we know, auto manufacturers don’t always follow the most sound business practices…

ZiggysFryBoy

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4311
  • MEDITERRANEAN TACOS!
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #237 on: August 22, 2020, 05:10:55 PM »

This is why I find it amusing when manufacturers advertise a given vehicle as “the number one selling [midsize/SUV/pickup] in America.“ After all, the number one selling vehicle is simply going to be the one that is manufactured in the highest numbers. Eventually it will sell, whether at MSRP or some reduced rate, but the manufacturer is not going to be left holding on sold cars at the end of the day.

I understand that sound business practices would require matching manufacturing to anticipated demand. But as we know, auto manufacturers don’t always follow the most sound business practices…

Uh, no.  This ain't the USSR, kin.  Supply and demand applies to cars too.

Civics, F150s and Camrys sell because they are good value for the money.  Pontiac coul have made a million Azteks, them suckers wouldnt sell regardless.
"What did I ever do to you?"

Boo-effen-hoo.

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 16052
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #238 on: August 22, 2020, 05:28:31 PM »
Azteks were ahead of their time.   And a perfect example of GM design by committee.    The original concept was beautiful.   The Pontiac cladding was hideous and putting it on a minivan platform was dumb.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2020, 05:30:34 PM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

GooooMarquette

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8086
  • Person Woman Man Camera TV!
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #239 on: August 22, 2020, 06:08:46 PM »
Uh, no.  This ain't the USSR, kin.  Supply and demand applies to cars too.

Civics, F150s and Camrys sell because they are good value for the money.  Pontiac coul have made a million Azteks, them suckers wouldnt sell regardless.

I didn’t say there wasn’t some relationship. But I remember the days when Ford would heavily discount the Taurus in order to get rid of supply while neither Toyota nor Honda had to discount their Camrys or Accords to clear the lots. Yeah - it does happen.

And what does a company making a questionable business decision have to do with the USSR?

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2668
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #240 on: August 22, 2020, 06:18:16 PM »
Azteks were ahead of their time.   And a perfect example of GM design by committee.    The original concept was beautiful.   The Pontiac cladding was hideous and putting it on a minivan platform was dumb.

I shamefully admit I owned an Aztek.  We badly needed a new car with 2 young kids.  A mechanic friend told the wife and I it had a very reliable GM engine used on other automobiles.  He rarely saw issues.  We bought fully loaded dirt cheap.  Never once had an issue with it and was the roomiest car I ever owned. 
We traded it in with 98,000 miles right after I got a new job for a 2-yr old 2006 Ford Explorer which I still have.  My kids love driving the Ford and we from the safety aspect love them driving.  They got rear-ended coming out if school.  There was small puncture in the plastic on the bumper that we got fixed only because the other partiy's insurance was paying.  The other car was practically totalled. 

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 14170
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #241 on: August 22, 2020, 06:23:11 PM »
I shamefully admit I owned an Aztek.  We badly needed a new car with 2 young kids.  A mechanic friend told the wife and I it had a very reliable GM engine used on other automobiles.  He rarely saw issues.  We bought fully loaded dirt cheap.  Never once had an issue with it and was the roomiest car I ever owned. 
We traded it in with 98,000 miles right after I got a new job for a 2-yr old 2006 Ford Explorer which I still have.  My kids love driving the Ford and we from the safety aspect love them driving.  They got rear-ended coming out if school.  There was small puncture in the plastic on the bumper that we got fixed only because the other partiy's insurance was paying.  The other car was practically totalled.

On a trip to Hawaii years ago, the rental car we got was an Aztek. My wife and I had only made fun of them, so we were amused that's what we ended up. "Should we ask for something else?" I asked her. "Nah, it might be fun," she said. It ended up being A-OK to drive, and was so ugly that it almost was cool. Almost.
“None of these steps we’re asking people to take are political statements. Every one of them is based on science, real science. ... I know the country has grown weary of the fight. We need to remember we’re at war with the virus, not with one another.”

-- President Joe Biden

WI inferiority Complexes

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #242 on: August 22, 2020, 07:49:56 PM »
I sold a used Rendezvous, (basically Buick version of the Aztek), last week. Still a nice vehicle.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2020, 07:53:03 PM by WI inferiority Complexes »

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 16052
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #243 on: August 22, 2020, 07:58:46 PM »
Car makers are now building non-butt-ugly Azteks by the bushel.     Versatile, roomy semi-utes.    That can go anywhere and do anything.  Practically an Outback.  Ahead if its time.

But, being a turn of the millennium GM product, it was put in the wrong platform.   They mistook plastic cladding for style.   The higher ups refused to even allow criticism from anyone working on the car.

Basically, today's Chevy Blazer is what they wanted the Aztek to be.    But GM back then had such disastrous management that they completely fd up a concept that would ultimately make billions
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Coleman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3114
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #244 on: August 24, 2020, 11:25:28 AM »
That isn't necessarily true.  Dealers sell cars at an initial loss quite frequently.  Typically they make their money by hitting goals set by the manufacturer and getting bonuses for hitting those numbers.  So one way or another they make money on it, but it isn't necessarily off the customer.

LOL, and how do you think the manufacturer makes up for those payoffs to dealerships?

They raise MSRP. Which drives costs up. Whatever way you slice it, dealers add to cost.

Frenns Liquor Depot

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2495
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #245 on: August 24, 2020, 11:34:16 AM »
LOL, and how do you think the manufacturer makes up for those payoffs to dealerships?

They raise MSRP. Which drives costs up. Whatever way you slice it, dealers add to cost.

This isn't how pricing works. 

However, I can't argue with your conclusion.  Dealer adds cost - Infrastructure, Inventory, People & Profit.  The question is is there a more efficient path to the market?  People want to test drive and ask questions.  Can the OEM do this more efficiently?  I don't know.  Frequently today dealer inventory is thin, particularly for foreign cars, so its a local place to do a test drive, understand the car better and agree on price/place your order.  I wouldn't have bought the car without driving it, so at a minimum OEM's would have to have local 'trial centers'.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 14170
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #246 on: August 24, 2020, 11:39:17 AM »
This isn't how pricing works. 

However, I can't argue with your conclusion.  Dealer adds cost - Infrastructure, Inventory, People & Profit.  The question is is there a more efficient path to the market?  People want to test drive and ask questions.  Can the OEM do this more efficiently?  I don't know.  Frequently today dealer inventory is thin, particularly for foreign cars, so its a local place to do a test drive, understand the car better and agree on price/place your order.  I wouldn't have bought the car without driving it, so at a minimum OEM's would have to have local 'trial centers'.

I went to a car show (the one in Charlotte) last year for the first time in at least a quarter century. It was very useful. I am thinking that I'll be buying a new car in 2021, and it was nice to be able to sit inside dozens and dozens of vehicles without having to go to a bazillion dealerships. I could ask questions if I wanted, but I was not approached by salespeople. Way better than browsing on the interwebs, and I learned a lot.

Obviously, you also are right about wanting/needing to test drive.
“None of these steps we’re asking people to take are political statements. Every one of them is based on science, real science. ... I know the country has grown weary of the fight. We need to remember we’re at war with the virus, not with one another.”

-- President Joe Biden

Coleman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3114
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #247 on: August 24, 2020, 11:40:22 AM »
This isn't how pricing works. 

However, I can't argue with your conclusion.  Dealer adds cost - Infrastructure, Inventory, People & Profit.  The question is is there a more efficient path to the market?  People want to test drive and ask questions.  Can the OEM do this more efficiently?  I don't know.  Frequently today dealer inventory is thin, particularly for foreign cars, so its a local place to do a test drive, understand the car better and agree on price/place your order.  I wouldn't have bought the car without driving it, so at a minimum OEM's would have to have local 'trial centers'.

It is a legitimate point, but one that I think could be easily solved.

Manufacturer show rooms and trial centers. Owned by the manufacturer, not a dealer who needs to make a profit. Cars available to sit in and drive around a test track. I'm pretty sure this is the Tesla model, where they are allowed to do it.

Frenns Liquor Depot

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2495
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #248 on: August 24, 2020, 11:53:42 AM »
It is a legitimate point, but one that I think could be easily solved.

Manufacturer show rooms and trial centers. Owned by the manufacturer, not a dealer who needs to make a profit. Cars available to sit in and drive around a test track. I'm pretty sure this is the Tesla model, where they are allowed to do it.

Any added cost though demands a profit.  The OEM show room will need to at least need to earn back the Outlay + the cost of that capital.  If it is zero they mfg will likely just stay with the current system. 

Now if they can do it more efficiently, then maybe they do it and capture some of the dealer profit (and give some back to the buyer)

Again I don’t know the answer, but it’s not necessarily a boon to the car buyer, unless it is greatly cheaper.  You really need to strip out why it’s more efficient (less dealers, less inventory or lower profit requirements are most likely). 

WI inferiority Complexes

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
« Reply #249 on: August 24, 2020, 01:22:33 PM »
It is a legitimate point, but one that I think could be easily solved.

Manufacturer show rooms and trial centers. Owned by the manufacturer, not a dealer who needs to make a profit. Cars available to sit in and drive around a test track. I'm pretty sure this is the Tesla model, where they are allowed to do it.

I like the idea of show rooms and trial centers.  There are only a few things I would add.

1.) A car is a big purchase, so I'm not sure I would be comfortable just driving on a track.  How about being able to take it on the streets I drive everyday?  Maybe even borrow the vehicle for a few hours, make sure it fits in the garage and show it to my family, (my wife hates going to trial centers)?

2.) After borrowing the vehicle for a little bit, I may want to buy this exact vehicle right now.  I think these trial centers should allow me to purchase the car today.

3.) But, I already have a car that I need to get rid of.  It would be cool if these trial centers accepted my old car, and used the equity to lower the price of my new car. 

4.) I can't afford to write a check for the entirety of my new car, so if the trial center could contact a bank, or maybe several banks, and give me financing options, I'd appreciate it.  Maybe the same guy at the trial center can price out extended warranties.

5.) Maybe attach these trial centers to service, parts, and body shop departments.  People seem to like stuff like that.