MUScoop

MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Cheeks on June 28, 2019, 09:14:53 AM

Title: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Cheeks on June 28, 2019, 09:14:53 AM
Avg age 11.8 years.  People hanging on to cars a lot longer.


My truck is 13 years old
Wife’s car is 10
We have a car for the kids to use to get to their jobs... 8

All 100,000+ miles easily, all running well.



https://apnews.com/bc5bc21edffb422290c9ca66345e0748
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on June 28, 2019, 09:36:17 AM
Yep, it sounds a little crazy but car companies are doing too good a job of building their products!

Cars no longer rust, and if well maintained most go for years.

I have an 8 1/2 year old Hyundai Santa Fe that all I have done is oil changes, filter changes, one set of new tires and one replacement lamp. I've spent less than $1000 on this car in more than 8 years. And there are still 1 1/2 years to go on the factory powertrain warranty!

Stoopid Hyundai. Years back, they used to make cruddy cars that broke down after a year or two.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 28, 2019, 09:41:34 AM
Just two days ago my wife and I got rid of our minivan with 200k+ miles.  It was the end of an era for us...our kids have grown up and we don't need a minivan any longer.  My car currently has almost 150k and it's still going strong (knock on wood).  Our newest car is five years old.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jficke13 on June 28, 2019, 09:46:16 AM
I had an Altima for about 6 years and 150k miles until the transmission failed. Didn't feel like pouring $4k into that major repair. Hoping to keep the new car for a much longer time.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: #UnleashDiener on June 28, 2019, 10:06:38 AM
I have a fusion energi 2014 with 70,000 and a k2500 Chevy diesel 1997 with 152k. Im on both ends of the spectrum for gas milage.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 28, 2019, 10:12:49 AM
We just traded the wife's 2001 RAV4 in for a used 2019 Hyundai Kona.

We usually kept our vehicles long term but with all of the sensors, electronic features I doubt that will be the case going forward. Too many things that can fail.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: WI inferiority Complexes on June 28, 2019, 10:17:55 AM
Yep, it sounds a little crazy but car companies are doing too good a job of building their products!

Cars no longer rust, and if well maintained most go for years.

I have an 8 1/2 year old Hyundai Santa Fe that all I have done is oil changes, filter changes, one set of new tires and one replacement lamp. I've spent less than $1000 on this car in more than 8 years. And there are still 1 1/2 years to go on the factory powertrain warranty!

Stoopid Hyundai. Years back, they used to make cruddy cars that broke down after a year or two.

Driving under 10k miles per year benefits car owners greatly.  If you drove 15k miles/year and were out of any warranty after 7 years, you might consider trading in before buying your 3rd set of tires.

As a side note:  I took in an '04 Santa Fe on Wednesday night.  143k miles and it definitely has rust.  ACV (actual cash value) was $500.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 28, 2019, 10:23:20 AM
2006 Ford Explorer with 220,000  miles is still running fine.
2014 Chevy & 2018 GMC we should hopefully own for quite awhile.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on June 28, 2019, 10:35:08 AM
Driving under 10k miles per year benefits car owners greatly.  If you drove 15k miles/year and were out of any warranty after 7 years, you might consider trading in before buying your 3rd set of tires.

As a side note:  I took in an '04 Santa Fe on Wednesday night.  143k miles and it definitely has rust.  ACV (actual cash value) was $500.

I don't see many rusty cars, but I'm not in the biz and I obviously believe you.

In 8 1/2 years, my Santa Fe has 77,000 miles, so yes, we are low-mileage drivers.

2006 Ford Explorer with 220,000  miles is still running fine.
2014 Chevy & 2018 GMC we should hopefully own for quite awhile.

Yowsa! That's many tons of vehicular fun!
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: TAMU Eagle on June 28, 2019, 10:37:29 AM
Does this include data for those who lease? I feel like the number of people leasing cars has grown dramatically. If that's not factored in it could artificially inflate the numbers because those who used to buy a new car every few years have likely been taken out of the pool.

I'm on year 6 of my 2014 Mazada six. Still under 40K miles. Imma be riding that thing another 14 years.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MUWarrior2007 on June 28, 2019, 10:46:41 AM
I don't see many rusty cars, but I'm not in the biz and I obviously believe you.

In 8 1/2 years, my Santa Fe has 77,000 miles, so yes, we are low-mileage drivers.

Yowsa! That's many tons of vehicular fun!

That's because you live in the south where they don't need to salt the roads all winter long.  There are plenty of rusty cars north of the Mason Dixon.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 28, 2019, 10:57:06 AM
That's because you live in the south where they don't need to salt the roads all winter long.  There are plenty of rusty cars north of the Mason Dixon.

While this is undoubtedly true, my personal observations is that they've gotten much, much better on this.  It wasn't too long ago that even within the first 5-6 years we'd have real issues with rust on cars around here.  There was a reason that dealerships were always really pushing rust-proofing as an add-on.  And there were constant rust-proofing advertisements.  These days, I see far fewer rusted out cars (and the ones I do see are usually really old), I don't recall dealers really pushing rust-proofing and I don't see the ads any longer. I don't know what the manufacturers are doing, but it's working pretty well.

I wish I was a low mileage driver.  I tend to be 18k+ with my car.  My wife isn't quite as bad, but still high.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jsglow on June 28, 2019, 11:03:08 AM
Let's see. 

'01: a collector about to be sold to my buddy for full restoration.

'07: 'brand new' Miata.  17,000 miles.  Absolutely cherry.

'03: V8 Explorer.  She's my tow vehicle and only has 80k. I was unbelievably blessed to find her last year replacing our '02 that gave up the ghost at 200k.  Back from the days before they ruined 'em.  Didn't even have to change any of my hitch setups.

'12: our daily driver Mazda6. About 55,000 miles on her.

We're not going to need a car for years.  ;D
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Jay Bee on June 28, 2019, 11:16:57 AM
Just threw in another $1.7k in repairs & maint on the whip, but the 2011 Benz is still rolling type nice joe
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jsglow on June 28, 2019, 11:20:01 AM
That's one thing.  Those of us with older cars to need trusted mechanics.  Things break and the good ones know what to fix and what to leave alone.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 28, 2019, 11:28:47 AM
I have a 2013 Chevy AWD Equinox (49000) and 2014 Odyssey (34000). I'm probably one of the few here who bought brand new, both for cash and no financing. Since I'm not very handy when it comes to fixing cars so I purchased a 10 and 8 year extended warranty respectively. I'm glad I did. I was quite surprised that it paid for new rotors, struts, shocks and wheel alignment, but not the brakes on my Equinox. I still have another 4 years on the warranty. So far between the two cars my extended warranties have saved me about 5k in repair and maintenance expenses. I have only shelled out about 2k out of pocket, mostly for new tires on both vehicles.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: RJax55 on June 28, 2019, 11:51:06 AM
I have a 2013 Chevy AWD Equinox (49000) and 2014 Odyssey (34000). I'm probably one of the few here who bought brand new, both for cash and no financing. Since I'm not very handy when it comes to fixing cars so I purchased a 10 and 8 year extended warranty respectively. I'm glad I did. I was quite surprised that it paid for new rotors, struts, shocks and wheel alignment, but not the brakes on my Equinox. I still have another 4 years on the warranty. So far between the two cars my extended warranties have saved me about 5k in repair and maintenance expenses. I have only shelled out about 2k out of pocket, mostly for new tires on both vehicles.

The minute that warranty is up on that Equinox, dump it.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jficke13 on June 28, 2019, 12:28:41 PM
Let's see. 

'01: a collector about to be sold to my buddy for full restoration.

'07: 'brand new' Miata.  17,000 miles.  Absolutely cherry.

'03: V8 Explorer.  She's my tow vehicle and only has 80k. I was unbelievably blessed to find her last year replacing our '02 that gave up the ghost at 200k.  Back from the days before they ruined 'em.  Didn't even have to change any of my hitch setups.

'12: our daily driver Mazda6. About 55,000 miles on her.

We're not going to need a car for years.  ;D

This is more of a "things I don't get" but I've never understood the internet's obsession with Miatas. I mean, cool little cars and all, but go on Jalopnik and other similar sites and it's like you're carrying around a piece of the True Cross.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on June 28, 2019, 12:35:32 PM
5 year old Mazda 6 that will go to my 12 year old in 3.5 years.  2 year old Outback.  I generally biy myself a new car every 10 years.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: warriorchick on June 28, 2019, 12:55:11 PM
This is more of a "things I don't get" but I've never understood the internet's obsession with Miatas. I mean, cool little cars and all, but go on Jalopnik and other similar sites and it's like you're carrying around a piece of the True Cross.

It's got the highest coolness/price ratio of any car I know.

The valets at the Las Vegas casinos have parked right in front with the Bentleys and the Ferraris.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 28, 2019, 01:06:07 PM
The minute that warranty is up on that Equinox, dump it.

thinking of doing the same with my X1. I've had no problems and only put on 47K in 5 years, BUT BMW's are expensive for repairs.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: CTWarrior on June 28, 2019, 01:45:48 PM
Avg age 11.8 years.  People hanging on to cars a lot longer.


My truck is 13 years old
Wife’s car is 10
We have a car for the kids to use to get to their jobs... 8

All 100,000+ miles easily, all running well.



https://apnews.com/bc5bc21edffb422290c9ca66345e0748

Read the article and not sure it is clear to me.  This article is saying that the average new car bought in the US is on the road for 11.8 years, not that the average car currently on the road is 11.8 years old, correct?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on June 28, 2019, 01:46:49 PM
I have a 2013 Chevy AWD Equinox (49000) and 2014 Odyssey (34000). I'm probably one of the few here who bought brand new, both for cash and no financing. Since I'm not very handy when it comes to fixing cars so I purchased a 10 and 8 year extended warranty respectively. I'm glad I did. I was quite surprised that it paid for new rotors, struts, shocks and wheel alignment, but not the brakes on my Equinox. I still have another 4 years on the warranty. So far between the two cars my extended warranties have saved me about 5k in repair and maintenance expenses. I have only shelled out about 2k out of pocket, mostly for new tires on both vehicles.

One of the things that drew me to Hyundai was its 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty and its 10-year warranty on the drivetrain (where all the real expensive stuff is).

I have been very impressed with the quality of my 2011 Santa Fe and by not needing any costly repairs -- warranty repairs or otherwise. So when it came time to get a new car for my wife 3 years ago, she got a 2016 Sonata Hybrid. It is a GREAT car that we also plan to drive for 10 years. Hyundai has come a long way as a brand; its cars are regularly near the top of Consumer Reports rankings.

FWIW, we paid cash for both. I hate financing cars ... or pretty much anything else, especially stuff that depreciates.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on June 28, 2019, 02:15:46 PM
2010 Toyota Corolla with 160,000 miles (my primary driver) - will probably replace with something bigger when Coleman Jr. comes along in the next year or so. Looking at used Subaru Outbacks

2015 Subaru Forester with 83,000 miles (Mrs. Coleman's primary driver) - we will keep forever

Both are paid for.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on June 28, 2019, 02:17:10 PM
One of the things that drew me to Hyundai was its 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty and its 10-year warranty on the drivetrain (where all the real expensive stuff is).

I have been very impressed with the quality of my 2011 Santa Fe and by not needing any costly repairs -- warranty repairs or otherwise. So when it came time to get a new car for my wife 3 years ago, she got a 2016 Sonata Hybrid. It is a GREAT car that we also plan to drive for 10 years. Hyundai has come a long way as a brand; its cars are regularly near the top of Consumer Reports rankings.

FWIW, we paid cash for both. I hate financing cars ... or pretty much anything else, especially stuff that depreciates.

That's encouraging to hear, I have heard over and over that Hyundai is crap. But maybe I'll give them another look.

I mostly love the Japanese brands....Toyota, Honda, Subaru.....but Mitsubishi and Nissan are not so great
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on June 28, 2019, 02:21:44 PM
This is more of a "things I don't get" but I've never understood the internet's obsession with Miatas. I mean, cool little cars and all, but go on Jalopnik and other similar sites and it's like you're carrying around a piece of the True Cross.

+1

I'd rather have an old Toyota Solara convertible but whatever floats ones boat
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: BM1090 on June 28, 2019, 02:22:11 PM
Just bought a 2019 Elantra. My 2009 Chevy was still running well enough at 100,000 miles until it got stolen and totaled. Goal is to have the Elantra until 2035.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on June 28, 2019, 02:23:09 PM
5 year old Mazda 6 that will go to my 12 year old in 3.5 years.  2 year old Outback.  I generally biy myself a new car every 10 years.

What year is the Outback? 2017? 2018? That is exactly what I am looking at replacing my Corolla with. How do you like it? Do you have EyeSight?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on June 28, 2019, 02:35:22 PM
2016.  Bought in August 2017. It does not have eyesight.   Our second Outback.   My wife totalled our first.   That story and the insurance company is one for the  'things I don't get' thread.    It is roomy, a comfortable highway vehicle, and awesome in the snow.    We were looking to buy used after the first was wrecked.  But they hold their value so well.  Caught a year end clearance, $5k off sticker, 0% for 60 months.  Payments are lower than buying used.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on June 28, 2019, 02:42:57 PM
2016.  Bought in August 2017. It does not have eyesight.   Our second Outback.   My wife totalled our first.   That story and the insurance company is one for the  'things I don't get' thread.    It is roomy, a comfortable highway vehicle, and awesome in the snow.    We were looking to buy used after the first was wrecked.  But they hold their value so well.  Caught a year end clearance, $5k off sticker, 0% for 60 months.  Payments are lower than buying used.

Nice, yes, that generation looks awesome (barring the 2015s which seemed to have some issues). I am looking at 2016-2018, but I want EyeSight. Nothing comes close to Subarus AWD.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Retire0 on June 28, 2019, 02:45:28 PM
I was going round and round with a lady on Craigslist for a 2003 Miata, she wouldn’t budge from $3,500.

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on June 28, 2019, 02:47:27 PM
Nice, yes, that generation looks awesome (barring the 2015s which seemed to have some issues). I am looking at 2016-2018, but I want EyeSight. Nothing comes close to Subarus AWD.
Coming up on the next end of year clearance.   Do a little digging into the dealer's inventory and you could get lucky.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jficke13 on June 28, 2019, 02:49:27 PM
It's got the highest coolness/price ratio of any car I know.

The valets at the Las Vegas casinos have parked right in front with the Bentleys and the Ferraris.

I guess that's the part that seems so hard to wrap my head around. People have elevated the Miata to the Bentley and Ferrari level. Remarkable.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on June 28, 2019, 02:52:10 PM
If I were to ever buy a toy, a Miata would be near the top of the list.   The beauty of the Miata is the ease of ownership.   So reliable.  If I wanted to put my mechanic's kids through college, I would get a Saab convertible.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 28, 2019, 02:55:26 PM
That's encouraging to hear, I have heard over and over that Hyundai is crap. But maybe I'll give them another look.

I mostly love the Japanese brands....Toyota, Honda, Subaru.....but Mitsubishi and Nissan are not so great

I've been driving Nissan for 15 years, Altima and now a pathfinder.  Both are good cars.

I'm 41, have owned 3 cars in my adult life, plus the car I used in HS.  Drive em until they die.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Cheeks on June 28, 2019, 03:00:37 PM
I've been driving Nissan for 15 years, Altima and now a pathfinder.  Both are good cars.

I'm 41, have owned 3 cars in my adult life, plus the car I used in HS.  Drive em until they die.

We have a Toyota truck, runs like a champ with a ton of miles on it and 13 years old.  Been through everything - camping for years, towing, lots of hauling.   Wife's car is a Honda Pilot which has been B+, a few minor things.  We have a mini-Cooper used we got cheap for the kids to use.  German cars....high costs in maintenance, but fun to drive 6 speed.

I tend to drive stuff into the ground.  The American cars I owned largely didn't make it long...Ford Ranger truck being the worst culprit.  Milwaukee winter ate it alive.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on June 28, 2019, 03:13:04 PM
I've been driving Nissan for 15 years, Altima and now a pathfinder.  Both are good cars.

I'm 41, have owned 3 cars in my adult life, plus the car I used in HS.  Drive em until they die.

I heard the CVTs were questionable but maybe that has been fixed
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jfmu on June 28, 2019, 03:13:30 PM
It's got the highest coolness/price ratio of any car I know.

The valets at the Las Vegas casinos have parked right in front with the Bentleys and the Ferraris.

I'm going to say that I've never seen a Mitata parked in a valet and just leave it at that.

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on June 28, 2019, 03:14:02 PM
If I were to ever buy a toy, a Miata would be near the top of the list.   The beauty of the Miata is the ease of ownership.   So reliable.  If I wanted to put my mechanic's kids through college, I would get a Saab convertible.

My mom has a Saab 9-3 Turbo and that thing is FUN to drive
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Jay Bee on June 28, 2019, 03:25:16 PM
I've been driving Nissan for 15 years, Altima and now a pathfinder.  Both are good cars.

I'm 41, have owned 3 cars in my adult life, plus the car I used in HS.  Drive em until they die.

Amen

Geo Prism
Nissan Altima
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Lexus Rx300
Benz glk 350

Drove 3 til they went up in smoke; sold the Lex to a buddy for $500

Cash only purchases, always used

5 cars, dozens of dames have had the pleasure

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: real chili 83 on June 28, 2019, 03:42:58 PM
Just sold my 03 Tahoe.  330k miles, got $2k, plus a bottle of Knob Creek.

Didn't know chit about taking care of cars before this car.  Lots of credit goes to YouTube.  My last repair was due to airbag light.  Needed to replace an airbag impact sensor.  Piece of cake.  Saw it on YouTube.  Would have cost me a kabillion dollars at a repair shop.  Wish I had one tenth of JB's stash.

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jsglow on June 28, 2019, 04:11:20 PM
I guess that's the part that seems so hard to wrap my head around. People have elevated the Miata to the Bentley and Ferrari level. Remarkable.

No one is saying that.  It's truly a pound for pound thing.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jsglow on June 28, 2019, 04:13:12 PM
I was going round and round with a lady on Craigslist for a 2003 Miata, she wouldn’t budge from $3,500.

That's significantly less than I just got for my '01.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: lawdog77 on June 28, 2019, 04:28:39 PM
2012 Buick Enclave, 2019 BMW 428i Convertible. Guess which one I get to drive ::)
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 28, 2019, 04:34:36 PM
We've been pretty exclusive on Japanese cars for 25 years or so.  We had a run of Hondas for quite a while (Accord, CRV, Odyssey, Acura RDX, another Odyssey, another Accord) and now we've had a string of Nissans (Infinity M series, Altima (my current), 2 Rogues (one current) and a Pathfinder (wife's current).  Over the years, we've had very good luck with all of them with little expense beyond oil changes and tires (knocking on wood).  We had a couple Fords before we moved to Hondas, and they weren't particularly good.

For the record, I loved the Infiniti, but it wasn't a practical car for us.  And it was quite expensive to service -- even routine stuff.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Retire0 on June 28, 2019, 04:38:52 PM
That's significantly less than I just got for my '01.

Right? And people are paying $8k for golf carts around here to bring to baseball games.

Idiots.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jsglow on June 28, 2019, 05:13:14 PM
Right? And people are paying $8k for golf carts around here to bring to baseball games.

Idiots.

Well, to be fair, mine is going to a car restoration friend.  He's wanted it for years and finding one of that vintage that's in outstanding mechanical condition is challenging.  His plan is to repaint, upgrade the suspension, and possibly re-roof although that's still in A- condition so he might hold off.  I'm very much looking forward to seeing his finished product and will still get an opportunity to drive her every now and again.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 28, 2019, 05:20:07 PM
Good place to put this .. a friend and fellow MU grad works as an auto reviewer.   He's always driving something insane.  We went to a Brewers game a few years ago and he casually points out the $120k car he's parked in the lot around a few two fisted sloppers.

A bunch of times a year manufacturers fly him gorgeous locations to drive ridiculous cars. 

He just posted this on FB, he's in Spain.  Not sure what car this is, though.   (Edit: Aston Martin Vanquish?)

(https://i.imgur.com/0m6CLIl.jpg)
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Retire0 on June 28, 2019, 05:29:41 PM
Good place to put this .. a friend and fellow MU grad works as an auto reviewer.   He's always driving something insane.  We went to a Brewers game a few years ago and he casually points out the $120k car he's parked in the lot around a few two fisted sloppers.

A bunch of times a year manufacturers fly him gorgeous locations to drive ridiculous cars. 

He just posted this on FB, he's in Spain.  Not sure what car this is, though. 

(https://i.imgur.com/0m6CLIl.jpg)

That’s no Miata
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on June 28, 2019, 05:31:00 PM
The nose looks like an Aston Martin.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on June 28, 2019, 05:44:43 PM
That's encouraging to hear, I have heard over and over that Hyundai is crap. But maybe I'll give them another look.

I mostly love the Japanese brands....Toyota, Honda, Subaru.....but Mitsubishi and Nissan are not so great

Well, I don't want to be responsible for anybody buying a car that then sucks for them - ha!

Seriously, check out Consumer Reports and some other sites, and do your own comparisons. And obviously there's nothing like spending time in a car, including a long test drive, before making such an expensive decision.

I have had cars from many brands: some outstanding, some lemons. Best were a 1999 Volvo Cross Country wagon (seats were as comfy as La-Z-Boys!), a 1998 Lexus LS400 (sound system was so good it was like a concert hall on wheels) that I bought certified preowned in 2001, and a really cool 1985 T-Bird (35th anniversary edition). These two Hyundais aren't Lexuses or Volvos, but they have been darn nice, trouble-free cars.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 28, 2019, 05:57:50 PM
The nose looks like an Aston Martin.

Google says you are right.    It's just $850,000.  Unreal.

https://www.businessinsider.com/aston-martin-vanquish-volante-zagato-convertible-2016-8
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 28, 2019, 06:28:25 PM
Consumer Reports?
You may find this interesting.

Going Under the Hood at Consumer Reports' Test Track

ttps://www.connecticutmag.com/the-connecticut-story/going-under-the-hood-at-consumer-reports-test-track/article_65599bd8-00aa-11e9-9c12-13a2a3a4ec77.html
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Jockey on June 28, 2019, 06:32:21 PM
Amen

Geo Prism
Nissan Altima
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Lexus Rx300
Benz glk 350



5 cars, dozens of dames have had the pleasure


.... of watching you drive by them.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 28, 2019, 08:29:33 PM
Amen

Geo Prism
Nissan Altima
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Lexus Rx300
Benz glk 350

Drove 3 til they went up in smoke; sold the Lex to a buddy for $500

Cash only purchases, always used

5 cars, dozens of dames have had the pleasure

Ha!

Geo prism
Ford Taurus  aka the sh!tbox
Nissan Altima
Nissan pathfinder

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Retire0 on June 28, 2019, 08:33:28 PM
Chevy Camaro
Chevy S10
Olds Ninety-Eight
Chrysler Concorde
Pontiac Grand Prix
Dodge Charger
Ford Taurus
Ford Taurus
Ford Fusion

Anyone wanna guess where the company cars started?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jsglow on June 28, 2019, 08:54:07 PM
Good place to put this .. a friend and fellow MU grad works as an auto reviewer.   He's always driving something insane.  We went to a Brewers game a few years ago and he casually points out the $120k car he's parked in the lot around a few two fisted sloppers.

A bunch of times a year manufacturers fly him gorgeous locations to drive ridiculous cars. 

He just posted this on FB, he's in Spain.  Not sure what car this is, though.   (Edit: Aston Martin Vanquish?)

(https://i.imgur.com/0m6CLIl.jpg)

Sweet lookin' car topper.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 28, 2019, 11:02:08 PM
Chevy Camaro
Chevy S10
Olds Ninety-Eight
Chrysler Concorde
Pontiac Grand Prix
Dodge Charger
Ford Taurus
Ford Taurus
Ford Fusion

Anyone wanna guess where the company cars started?

What year camaro?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 28, 2019, 11:40:40 PM
Chevy Camaro
Chevy S10
Olds Ninety-Eight
Chrysler Concorde
Pontiac Grand Prix
Dodge Charger
Ford Taurus
Ford Taurus
Ford Fusion

Anyone wanna guess where the company cars started?

What year was your Grand Prix? I never really cared too much about my various cars, but I loved my royal blue, white top 1976 model.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 29, 2019, 01:25:10 AM
Drove a Tesla for the first time today, so, so different from any other car I’ve driven but man was it cool.

As soon as run my my little 2004 Corolla into the ground I know what I’m gettin.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Retire0 on June 29, 2019, 06:25:11 AM
What year camaro?

That’s a ‘91. Last year before the next generation ruined the line.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Retire0 on June 29, 2019, 06:26:04 AM
What year was your Grand Prix? I never really cared too much about my various cars, but I loved my royal blue, white top 1976 model.

Like a 2007...
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on June 29, 2019, 06:53:13 AM
Was it a bitchin' Camaro?  (Obscure song reference)
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Retire0 on June 29, 2019, 07:29:58 AM
Was it a bitchin' Camaro?  (Obscure song reference)

Dead Milkmen, yeah it was bitching. You know all the proceeds go to getting their singer out of jail.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jsglow on June 29, 2019, 08:05:19 AM
Drove a Tesla for the first time today, so, so different from any other car I’ve driven but man was it cool.

As soon as run my my little 2004 Corolla into the ground I know what I’m gettin.

We have a friend with one.  And electric cars is now their only topic of conversation.  Don't be that guy.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: real chili 83 on June 29, 2019, 08:08:56 AM
Consumer Reports?
You may find this interesting.

Going Under the Hood at Consumer Reports' Test Track

ttps://www.connecticutmag.com/the-connecticut-story/going-under-the-hood-at-consumer-reports-test-track/article_65599bd8-00aa-11e9-9c12-13a2a3a4ec77.html

Dead link
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jficke13 on June 29, 2019, 08:45:51 AM
I heard the CVTs were questionable but maybe that has been fixed

Not sure but from my sample size of 1 the CVT on my '13 Altima died at after about 150k almost exclusively cruise control freeway speed miles.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 29, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
Not sure but from my sample size of 1 the CVT on my '13 Altima died at after about 150k almost exclusively cruise control freeway speed miles.

Yeah...I just threw up in my mouth a little. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on June 29, 2019, 09:19:18 AM
Drove a Tesla for the first time today, so, so different from any other car I’ve driven but man was it cool.

As soon as run my my little 2004 Corolla into the ground I know what I’m gettin.

My daughter and son-in-law are obsessed with getting a Tesla as their next vehicle. Been talking about it for at least 3 years now.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 29, 2019, 09:33:36 AM
My daughter and son-in-law are obsessed with getting a Tesla as their next vehicle. Been talking about it for at least 3 years now.

It was like learning how to drive all over again because of the regenerative braking.

You essentially use only one pedal to drive. Strange, but fun.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on June 29, 2019, 09:59:29 AM
It was like learning how to drive all over again because of the regenerative braking.

You essentially use only one pedal to drive. Strange, but fun.

I've never been in one, but I imagine I'll get a chance to drive my kids' car if they do decide to spend the tens and tens and tens and tens and tens of thousands of dollars to buy one. I think they are most interested in the SUV.

As a cheapskate, given the many fine cars one can buy for under $35K, I'm hoping they come to their senses. But it's their money, not mine, and I'll support whatever decision they make.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: WarriorDad on June 29, 2019, 11:32:32 AM
I've never been in one, but I imagine I'll get a chance to drive my kids' car if they do decide to spend the tens and tens and tens and tens and tens of thousands of dollars to buy one. I think they are most interested in the SUV.

As a cheapskate, given the many fine cars one can buy for under $35K, I'm hoping they come to their senses. But it's their money, not mine, and I'll support whatever decision they make.

Their off the line speed is very quick.  The torque is maximum at the start.  The model S is a wonderful vehicle.  The 3 is ok.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: BLM on June 29, 2019, 11:36:20 AM
The Tesla SUVs are some of the ugliest cars on the road. They game out with the cars and they were really slick and then they come out with the SUVs and there’s nothing to them.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on June 29, 2019, 12:49:31 PM
Its interesting to see perceptions of cars from this thread.  Lots of dated quality opinions, and buying extended warranties... and the love for any sort of warranty.

yeesh.  We should compare this thread with the on discussing finance
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: #UnleashDiener on June 29, 2019, 02:04:40 PM
We have a friend with one.  And electric cars is now their only topic of conversation.  Don't be that guy.

Have a fusion energi. I'm already that guy
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on June 29, 2019, 03:55:57 PM
2001 Suburban with about 270k on it.  A new one is damn near close to $100k. Cheaper to buy a summer home.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: cheebs09 on June 29, 2019, 08:20:21 PM
We have a friend with one.  And electric cars is now their only topic of conversation.  Don't be that guy.

Is that guy related to the Miata guy?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 29, 2019, 08:54:30 PM
My brother and my first car was the inherited from my grandmother, 1974 Plymouth Scamp with the Slant-6.  The car was awesome including the front & rear windows going all to way down and the entire side of the car was wide open.  The steel supports rusted out and my dad had welded until one day I went over a bump and and the weld collapsed.  The car drove lopsided until my dad said enough. 
My parents bought a new car and we inherited their 1980 Oldsmobile Omega hatchback.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: real chili 83 on June 29, 2019, 10:10:45 PM
My brother and my first car was the inherited from my grandmother, 1974 Plymouth Scamp with the Slant-6.  The car was awesome including the front & rear windows going all to way down and the entire side of the car was wide open.  The steel supports rusted out and my dad had welded until one day I went over a bump and and the weld collapsed.  The car drove lopsided until my dad said enough. 
My parents bought a new car and we inherited their 1980 Oldsmobile Omega hatchback.

Now we’re talking.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: real chili 83 on June 29, 2019, 10:11:54 PM
2001 Suburban with about 270k on it.  A new one is damn near close to $100k. Cheaper to buy a summer home.

I can help you fix whatever ails it.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on June 30, 2019, 12:40:31 AM
I can help you fix whatever ails it.

Actually, nothing ails it.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on June 30, 2019, 05:46:35 AM
My brother and my first car was the inherited from my grandmother, 1974 Plymouth Scamp with the Slant-6.  The car was awesome including the front & rear windows going all to way down and the entire side of the car was wide open.  The steel supports rusted out and my dad had welded until one day I went over a bump and and the weld collapsed.  The car drove lopsided until my dad said enough. 
My parents bought a new car and we inherited their 1980 Oldsmobile Omega hatchback.

My dad was an engineer who was very handy with cars, so my parents always bought used. They finally ponied up for their first new car in 1973 -- a forest green Plymouth Valiant (which was pretty similar to your Scamp).

9 years later, they bought another new car ... so their first new car became my first car. I went home to CT for spring break in 1982, and drove the Valiant back to Milwaukee.

I had a cassette deck put in before I left, and as I was cranking tunes at very high volume I was stepping on the gas. The cop who pulled me over in Indiana told me I was going 95 mph. When I showed contrition by repeatedly apologizing, and told him I was just a college kid trying to get back to school, he said:

"If I cite you for going 95 in a 55, you're going to jail. But I'll give you a break this time and just write you a ticket for going 65. You'll have to pay a fine, but you can be on your way to school. Now slow the (bleep) down."

I did. Never went over 60 the rest of the way to MU.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on June 30, 2019, 08:37:08 AM
thinking of doing the same with my X1. I've had no problems and only put on 47K in 5 years, BUT BMW's are expensive for repairs.
I’ve got a 2013 5 series with 67,000 miles on it.  When the warranty and maintenance plan ran out and I had some work that needed to be done,  I found out how expensive they can be.  The BMW concierge they assigned me said, You know what BMW stands for, right?  Bring Money With.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: dgies9156 on June 30, 2019, 11:57:38 AM
Let's see. 

'01: a collector about to be sold to my buddy for full restoration.
'07: 'brand new' Miata.  17,000 miles.  Absolutely cherry.
'03: V8 Explorer.  She's my tow vehicle and only has 80k. I was unbelievably blessed to find her last year replacing our '02 that gave up the ghost at 200k.  Back from the days before they ruined 'em.  Didn't even have to change any of my hitch setups.
'12: our daily driver Mazda6. About 55,000 miles on her.

We're not going to need a car for years.  ;D

Brother Glow, I hear you. I operate a "fleet!"

2011 Buick Enclave, 105,000 miles just replaced the steering rack and about to get new shocks. Should be good for 200,000+. Probably will go with my son back to college in the fall (by the way, brilliant strategy because the gas mileage is crappy, so he MUST limit his driving).

2012 LaCrosse, 62,000 miles. parked in a garage in Florida waiting for me to return next fall. Maintained beautifully, most people think it is new.

2008 VW Eos, My convertible. Registered in Florida. Visiting Illinois for the summer (used it to return our cocker spaniel to Chicago last May). Has 82,000 miles on it. Waxed and glossed like it is brand new.

2016 Rogue SV -- Leased to me for my daughter, who is buying the car off lease. Has 36,310 miles and good for another 150,000. Very well cared for by my daughter.

2016 BMW 528i X Drive -- Bought it last year from a BMW dealer in Westmont. Bought it for half its price new. Carefully maintained and polished and buffed monthly. Best part was that it only had 19,000 miles on it.

Other than mandatory body work from parking lot incidents, these cars have required modest repair. I agree with the sentiment that all cars are built better. In fact, when I bought the Enclave, I had not been into a GM showroom for 30 years (fallout from buying one of those "wonderful" GM X cars in the 1980s). I said something to the local Buick dealer and his comment was, "welcome back, sooner or later we felt we'd again get people like you."

The Enclave is a very well-done car. I'm not a big fan of the LaCrosse's steering (way too much play) but otherwise it is an extremely well built car.           

Besides changing fluids like a religion, I wash my own cars, buff and wax them a couple times a season and make sure they're always cleaned. I do a lot of the detail work myself (a very strange hobby I know, but I enjoy it) and it gives me an insight into whether I have surface scratches, chips or other points on the body needing repair.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on July 01, 2019, 10:07:36 AM
The Tesla SUVs are some of the ugliest cars on the road. They game out with the cars and they were really slick and then they come out with the SUVs and there’s nothing to them.

Wait until the Rivian SUVs and Trucks hit the road. Those things look good.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: UWW2MU on July 01, 2019, 10:12:47 AM
Consumer Reports?
You may find this interesting.

Going Under the Hood at Consumer Reports' Test Track

ttps://www.connecticutmag.com/the-connecticut-story/going-under-the-hood-at-consumer-reports-test-track/article_65599bd8-00aa-11e9-9c12-13a2a3a4ec77.html

I have no respect for consumer reports auto testing and reporting.  Their bias for certain makes automatically disqualifies them from any respect.  For example, they would give different ratings for two cars from two manufacturers that are built on the same assembly line.  For example, they gave the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix different reliability ratings even though they were both essentially Corolla wagons with only aesthetic variances. 

Years later, after Toyota had a number of massive recalls and controversies, they said they'd pull their "automatic" high reliability rating for Toyota.  Hello??  I thought they were supposed to be TESTING and researching reliability, not giving blanket benefit of the doubt.  Isn't that what subscribers were paying them for?

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on July 01, 2019, 10:38:42 AM
Wait until the Rivian SUVs and Trucks hit the road. Those things look good.

Yes, but IMO they resemble Ford pickups and Ford Flex's.  But if I had $100k to drop on a car they would be on my list.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on July 01, 2019, 10:40:53 AM
I have no respect for consumer reports auto testing and reporting.  Their bias for certain makes automatically disqualifies them from any respect.  For example, they would give different ratings for two cars from two manufacturers that are built on the same assembly line.  For example, they gave the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix different reliability ratings even though they were both essentially Corolla wagons with only aesthetic variances. 

Years later, after Toyota had a number of massive recalls and controversies, they said they'd pull their "automatic" high reliability rating for Toyota.  Hello??  I thought they were supposed to be TESTING and researching reliability, not giving blanket benefit of the doubt.  Isn't that what subscribers were paying them for?
Similar deal with Mustangs and the original Mazda 6.  Except they marked the 6 down specifically because it was built at the Flat Rock plant.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on July 01, 2019, 11:17:37 AM
Yes, but IMO they resemble Ford pickups and Ford Flex's.  But if I had $100k to drop on a car they would be on my list.

I just checked them out... they're $72,500... then subtract the $7,500 tax credit... $65k.

Its still a bit more than I'd pay for a brand new car, from a new company, and its their first model.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on July 01, 2019, 11:20:21 AM
They bought the former Mitsubishi Chrysler plant on down state Illinois for a song.  Projecting a 400 mile range. 
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: vogue65 on July 02, 2019, 09:03:44 PM
For what its worth, I had a 1979 Chrysler Newport 318, 495,000 miles.  Original motor, no work, replaced the rear end, and a few rebuilt transmissions. 

My latest VW was free, they replaced my 40,000 mile diesel with a new Golf, what a lucky dog.

In Italy the taxis are Mercedes station wagons. 
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on July 03, 2019, 07:10:45 AM
RIP, Lee Iacocca.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 03, 2019, 08:56:51 AM
RIP, Lee Iacocca.

I Am Chairman Of Chrysler Corporation Of America.

First business book I ever read was his auto-biography, Iacocca.  Legend.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: CreightonWarrior on July 03, 2019, 09:56:36 AM
Just bought a new car. Plan to ride it for 10-11 years
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: real chili 83 on July 03, 2019, 10:00:05 AM
I Am Chairman Of Chrysler Corporation Of America.

First business book I ever read was his auto-biography, Iacocca.  Legend.

He knew his hotcackes.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on July 31, 2020, 08:07:01 AM
If you were buying someone a used car and your choice was a newer compact car or older mid size car/small suv, which would you buy?

Top of head example; Would you buy a 2015 Toyota Corolla or 2011 Toyota Camry type of comparison?  (similar costs) but obviously other differences.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on July 31, 2020, 08:19:33 AM
If you were buying someone a used car and your choice was a newer compact car or older mid size car/small suv, which would you buy?

Top of head example; Would you buy a 2015 Toyota Corolla or 2011 Toyota Camry type of comparison?  (similar costs) but obviously other differences.

I guess that depends on a few things.  Mileage matters more than model year... unless certain model years are known to be problematic.  Newer model years will get you more bells and whistles, but that is really it.

I'd buy the car that was the least beat up.  If you're buying from a dealership you probably won't be able to tell much, but get the car history report (carfax, seriously).  That should tell you all you really need to know about the car.

If the choice is between those two models, have the person you are buying the car for decide.  They're both fine runners that should last for at least a decade.  Much longer if properly maintained.  300k miles easily.

Is the driver a new driver?  Do they have a family?  Things to consider before deciding on SUV or newer car.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on July 31, 2020, 08:56:53 AM
I guess that depends on a few things.  Mileage matters more than model year... unless certain model years are known to be problematic.  Newer model years will get you more bells and whistles, but that is really it.

I'd buy the car that was the least beat up.  If you're buying from a dealership you probably won't be able to tell much, but get the car history report (carfax, seriously).  That should tell you all you really need to know about the car.

If the choice is between those two models, have the person you are buying the car for decide.  They're both fine runners that should last for at least a decade.  Much longer if properly maintained.  300k miles easily.

Is the driver a new driver?  Do they have a family?  Things to consider before deciding on SUV or newer car.

Thanks. Yeah, some things to consider. In the example above 2015 started the new safety features etc...so I would consider it to be the newest year needed. There's always some new feature or redesign every so often. 2012 was an interior redo for the Camry but safety, infotainment type stuff later. Then you get into things such as it being more Iphone compatible than Android etc...these types of things can be pretty endless.

People quantity shouldn't be an issue. They are used to mid size or bigger.

I have been using for research:
cars.com
CarGurus
true car
Car max
Enterprise
Consumer Reports
Edmunds
KBB
Warehouse stores (Costco and Sam's have car buying programs)
Local dealers

Any other suggestions?

I am leaning towards Toyota/Honda for long term reliability. I have heard things about road noise with CR-V's...? But that and Rav4 would be possibilities. example: We have an extended family member with a 2010 Honda Accord with 253k miles. (They had to drive it long distance for a long time I believe)

I have mostly had either new cars, livee in big cities where I didn't need one or work has provided it for me. So I don't buy cars too often. But I have driven many types for periods of time.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on July 31, 2020, 09:10:10 AM
If you were buying someone a used car and your choice was a newer compact car or older mid size car/small suv, which would you buy?

Top of head example; Would you buy a 2015 Toyota Corolla or 2011 Toyota Camry type of comparison?  (similar costs) but obviously other differences.

Depends who it is for. Is it for a kid? I would get a 2011 Camry.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on July 31, 2020, 09:11:53 AM
Thanks. Yeah, some things to consider. In the example above 2015 started the new safety features etc...so I would consider it to be the newest year needed. There's always some new feature or redesign every so often. 2012 was an interior redo for the Camry but safety, infotainment type stuff later. Then you get into things such as it being more Iphone compatible than Android etc...these types of things can be pretty endless.

People quantity shouldn't be an issue. They are used to mid size or bigger.

I have been using for research:
cars.com
CarGurus
true car
Car max
Enterprise
Consumer Reports
Edmunds
KBB
Warehouse stores (Costco and Sam's have car buying programs)
Local dealers

Any other suggestions?

I am leaning towards Toyota/Honda for long term reliability. I have heard things about road noise with CR-V's...? But that and Rav4 would be possibilities. example: We have an extended family member with a 2010 Honda Accord with 253k miles. (They had to drive it long distance for a long time I believe)

I have mostly had either new cars, livee in big cities where I didn't need one or work has provided it for me. So I don't buy cars too often. But I have driven many types for periods of time.

All great resources.  Honda and Toyota are very reliable.  Don't sleep on Kias or Hyundai either.  They started out cheap and shoddy, but are very reliable vehicles currently.  Road noise on the lower end SUVs is going to be a thing no matter who you buy from.

Personally, I own Mazdas.  Never have any problems either.   If you're looking at the CRV, check out the CX-5 from Mazda.  Very similar.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on July 31, 2020, 09:25:15 AM
Also a Mazda fan.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on July 31, 2020, 09:55:57 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. I like Mazdas, the Maxda6 is arguably the most fun mid size to drive in my opinion. I also like the quiet, low maintenance of the Accord or Camry. Car is mostly major metro area driving, possibly weekend road trips. But we often rent a car for those.

i like the CX-5, goes back to I believe 2013. The 13, 14, 16 brakes score in Consumer Reports was not good. (Not that CR is the be all end all)....other years fine...had lower score for noise in 13, 15. But most scores were strong especially recent years.

The car is likely to eventually possibly to get passed around to a few people so it is not a quick answer as type of driver. It probably isn't the only one I am buying but I am starting with this

Generally I like Honda, Toyota, Hyundai (interior spaces a bit smaller) Mazda brands. i coule probably win the lottery and not spend $60-75k on a luxury car. I would rather put that money into other things. Just my preference. I have had a few family members in the car business but they own brands I didn't prefer while they drive luxury cars for themselves. So I am not going to them, lol

We can always trade something in and upgrade in the future. I have never bought used before and I often bought new from people I knew in the past, so that is really the big difference for me this time. 

I am generally a mid size car small suv person as long as it isn't a big group of people need for larger. Won't need that here. So small suv, mid size or compact for this one.

I prefer to just ride the subway (or get a car service) and call it a day, but I have driven a lot over the years either for fun road trips or with clients for work, including all over some states.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on July 31, 2020, 10:24:31 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. I like Mazdas, the Maxda6 is arguably the most fun mid size to drive in my opinion. I also like the quiet, low maintenance of the Accord or Camry. Car is mostly major metro area driving, possibly weekend road trips. But we often rent a car for those.

i like the CX-5, goes back to I believe 2013. The 13, 14, 16 brakes score in Consumer Reports was not good. (Not that CR is the be all end all)....other years fine...had lower score for noise in 13, 15. But most scores were strong especially recent years.

The car is likely to eventually possibly to get passed around to a few people so it is not a quick answer as type of driver. It probably isn't the only one I am buying but I am starting with this

Generally I like Honda, Toyota, Hyundai (interior spaces a bit smaller) Mazda brands. i coule probably win the lottery and not spend $60-75k on a luxury car. I would rather put that money into other things. Just my preference. I have had a few family members in the car business but they own brands I didn't prefer while they drive luxury cars for themselves. So I am not going to them, lol

We can always trade something in and upgrade in the future. I have never bought used before and I often bought new from people I knew in the past, so that is really the big difference for me this time. 

I am generally a mid size car small suv person as long as it isn't a big group of people need for larger. Won't need that here. So small suv, mid size or compact for this one.

I prefer to just ride the subway (or get a car service) and call it a day, but I have driven a lot over the years either for fun road trips or with clients for work, including all over some states.

Own a Mazdaspeed6 and its a lot of fun to drive.  Have you considered a Tesla 3?  They start under 40k.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: warriorchick on July 31, 2020, 11:10:04 AM
Also a big Mazda fan.

We've owned a 3, a 6, and 2 Miatas/MX-5s.

Glow jr is still driving the 3.  It's closing in on 200K miles.  He will probably be looking for a newer car this fall, but in the meantime, it's a perfect car to own in urban Seattle - it's reliable and he doesn't worry about someone dinging it.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on July 31, 2020, 11:18:44 AM
That is good info, thanks. I like the hatchback version too. I was curious about Mazdas longer term and how they hold up vs say a Toyota or Honda which I know are two of the best long term. I know very recent models have been well received.

I've had various cars but I keep coming back to these mentioned brands. I had a new Grand Cherokee once, and while I know they are much better now, it had many issues with electrical, etc....and I know mileage is still bad. I got tired of going to the gas station so frequently too.



Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on July 31, 2020, 11:21:19 AM
Own a Mazdaspeed6 and its a lot of fun to drive.  Have you considered a Tesla 3?  They start under 40k.

I haven't. I have a friend in D.C. that drives a compact car around Th District to fit into tight spots and a Tesla for fun. He's a big fan.  Probably not in consideration this time.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on July 31, 2020, 12:34:45 PM
That is good info, thanks. I like the hatchback version too. I was curious about Mazdas longer term and how they hold up vs say a Toyota or Honda which I know are two of the best long term. I know very recent models have been well received.

I've had various cars but I keep coming back to these mentioned brands. I had a new Grand Cherokee once, and while I know they are much better now, it had many issues with electrical, etc....and I know mileage is still bad. I got tired of going to the gas station so frequently too.

Jeep products are the least reliable vehicles you can own.  Stay away!

Our 2013 CX-5 has only needed routine maintenance and is at 130k.  Brakes, tires, and oil
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Retire0 on July 31, 2020, 09:38:17 PM
CX-9 is our family wagon.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on August 03, 2020, 09:30:36 AM
  Don't sleep on Kias or Hyundai either. 

If the buying used these both have the longest warranty in the business and the 2nd owner might have a long factory warranty still in place.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: TAMU Eagle on August 03, 2020, 09:55:08 AM
Add me to the list of Mazda fans. Love my Mazda 6.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on August 03, 2020, 09:59:04 AM
If the buying used these both have the longest warranty in the business and the 2nd owner might have a long factory warranty still in place.

I believe Hyundai is 5 year 60k mile 2nd owner, new vehicle warranty...Toyota and Honda are 3 year 36k miles, not sure about Mazda, have to look up.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 03, 2020, 11:05:22 AM
If the buying used these both have the longest warranty in the business and the 2nd owner might have a long factory warranty still in place.

Typically the warranty, or at least the powertrain part of it, is non transferable. 
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on August 03, 2020, 02:33:24 PM
Typically the warranty, or at least the powertrain part of it, is non transferable. 

shoothoops nailed it

Second and/or subsequent owners have powertrain components coverage under the 5-Year/60,000-Mile New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Warrior Code on August 05, 2020, 12:54:36 PM
I have an '09 Explorer with ~130,000 miles, and I plan on driving it into the ground. It's been a great car for me (knock on wood) thus far. Named her Jackie. Cars are better to you if you name them.

Explorer with a Marquette license plate -> Jacques Marquette -> Jackie. No brainer
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 05, 2020, 01:15:27 PM
I have an '09 Explorer with ~130,000 miles, and I plan on driving it into the ground. It's been a great car for me (knock on wood) thus far. Named her Jackie. Cars are better to you if you name them.

Explorer with a Marquette license plate -> Jacques Marquette -> Jackie. No brainer

I dig it
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Scoop Snoop on August 05, 2020, 05:15:24 PM
I have an '09 Explorer with ~130,000 miles, and I plan on driving it into the ground. It's been a great car for me (knock on wood) thus far. Named her Jackie. Cars are better to you if you name them.

Explorer with a Marquette license plate -> Jacques Marquette -> Jackie. No brainer

You guys are a bunch of wimps. I have a '03 Highlander with 285,000 miles on it and expect it to go for 350,000. Had a Chevy van for business. I think the guy who bought the business had well over 300,000 on it before he bought a new one. 130,000 miles? Kids stuff!
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on August 05, 2020, 10:31:25 PM
I am in my 10th year of ownership of my 2011 Hyundai Santa Fe, by far the longest I've owned a car.

It just needed work on one of the axles and I was very pleasantly surprised to learn the entire thing was covered under the 10-year powertrain warranty. Cost to me: $0.00 -- on a 9 1/2 year old car! Pretty cool, and definitely something I will think about when it's time for me to get my next car.

And yes, as others have said, only the original owner gets that warranty. I actually had to sign something verifying that I was the car's only owner.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 06, 2020, 12:45:51 PM
I am in my 10th year of ownership of my 2011 Hyundai Santa Fe, by far the longest I've owned a car.

It just needed work on one of the axles and I was very pleasantly surprised to learn the entire thing was covered under the 10-year powertrain warranty. Cost to me: $0.00 -- on a 9 1/2 year old car! Pretty cool, and definitely something I will think about when it's time for me to get my next car.

And yes, as others have said, only the original owner gets that warranty. I actually had to sign something verifying that I was the car's only owner.

That's impressive. Great timing on your part
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 07, 2020, 10:04:57 AM
I have an '09 Explorer with ~130,000 miles, and I plan on driving it into the ground. It's been a great car for me (knock on wood) thus far. Named her Jackie. Cars are better to you if you name them.

Explorer with a Marquette license plate -> Jacques Marquette -> Jackie. No brainer

I have 06 Explorer with around 200,000+ miles on it.  My older daughter loves driving it.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on August 08, 2020, 07:18:07 AM
Some follow up:

Does anyone have any experience/feedback buying from online places such as Csrvana or Vroom?

Does anyone have any experience buying through wholesale club such as Sam's or Costco?

What about non-new car dealers, used car places? Meaning places with vehicles included on many websites sold for a bit less but possibly less put into the vehicles.

What about Craigslist type of experiences?

Much of my past.buying experience has been with new car dealers.

Thanks..
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: mu_hilltopper on August 08, 2020, 08:36:30 AM
Some follow up:

Does anyone have any experience/feedback buying from online places such as Carvana or Vroom?


My co-worker bought a used vehicle via Vroom.   He had a positive experience.  The truck was in good condition. they brought it to his driveway and took his used vehicle away.   Everything was like clockwork.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 08, 2020, 09:13:22 AM
Wooda figured most of y'all drove Subaru or Prius, hey?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: warriorchick on August 08, 2020, 09:16:37 AM
Bought a couple of cars from Carmax. Very hassle - free process, but they tend to be a little pricier than haggling with a dealer.

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on August 08, 2020, 09:16:51 AM
Wooda figured most of y'all drove Subaru or Prius, hey?

Are you're implying you drive a pickup that rolls coal with Trump bumper stickers and the confederate battle flag from the rusted out bed?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on August 08, 2020, 09:17:57 AM
Some follow up:

Does anyone have any experience/feedback buying from online places such as Csrvana or Vroom?

Does anyone have any experience buying through wholesale club such as Sam's or Costco?

What about non-new car dealers, used car places? Meaning places with vehicles included on many websites sold for a bit less but possibly less put into the vehicles.

What about Craigslist type of experiences?

Much of my past.buying experience has been with new car dealers.

Thanks..

General advice when buying a used car from anyone is to take it to an auto repair shop during the test drive and pay them to give it a once over.

Anyone that doesn't let you do that is probably trying to hide something from you.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on August 08, 2020, 09:36:28 AM
My co-worker bought a used vehicle via Vroom.   He had a positive experience.  The truck was in good condition. they brought it to his driveway and took his used vehicle away.   Everything was like clockwork.

This is helpful as I just saw my first overlapping Vroom listing using the half a dozen or more other sites. Carvana has had a few more overlapping but combined less than five or so...unless I go specifically to their sites. I believe both give the 7 day guarantee but I will double check. The first few from Carvana were a little bit overpriced, some others were good prices. The Vroom price was excellent on one vehicle. I know this is increasingly popular in recent years. Both have listings with Wholesale Club sites, but some others too such as Cars.com or CarGurus.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on August 08, 2020, 09:44:32 AM
Bought a couple of cars from Carmax. Very hassle - free process, but they tend to be a little pricier than haggling with a dealer.

Yep I was a little taken aback at the higher pricing at first. Subsequent searches had a little better pricing. Enterprise is a bit similar with no haggle but Enterprise has much better pricing than CarMax across the board. Much of the Enterprise inventory is one, two, three year old type vehicles. And selection varies by brand.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: warriorchick on August 08, 2020, 09:58:00 AM
Yep I was a little taken aback at the higher pricing at first. Subsequent searches had a little better pricing. Enterprise is a bit similar with no haggle but Enterprise has much better pricing than CarMax across the board. Much of the Enterprise inventory is one, two, three year old type vehicles. And selection varies by brand.

Our Carmax purchases were over a decade ago, and I don't think the price difference was as bad back then. Whenever we have been in the market more recently, we have looked there, but we have ended up buying from a dealer.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on August 08, 2020, 05:50:07 PM
I love the idea of Carmax. Unfortunately, I ALWAYS have found better deals elsewhere.

Good place to check out the stock and get a no-pressure test drive or two.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on August 19, 2020, 08:10:48 AM
Question for Hyundai and Mazda owners:  On average what would you say is longevity of vehicle?.....vs say Honda/Toyota which can probably be 300,000 miles with mostly regular maintenance minor fixes on average with good fortune.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: warriorchick on August 19, 2020, 08:14:25 AM
Question for Hyundai and Mazda owners:  On average what would you say is longevity of vehicle?.....vs say Honda/Toyota which can probably be 300,000 miles with mostly regular maintenance minor fixes on average with good fortune.

I have owned several Toyotas and Mazdas.  I would say their longevity is about the same.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 19, 2020, 08:17:27 AM
I think the dealer experience has much improved over the last decade.  The auto companies know that this has been a problem and have been encouraging consolidation toward the dealers that give a better buyer experience.

The last three cars I have purchased have been from dealers and I thought the experience was fine.  I won't use the dealer service however unless it is a warranty issue.  IMO that is overpriced.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: warriorchick on August 19, 2020, 08:34:27 AM
I think the dealer experience has much improved over the last decade.  The auto companies know that this has been a problem and have been encouraging consolidation toward the dealers that give a better buyer experience.

The last three cars I have purchased have been from dealers and I thought the experience was fine.  I won't use the dealer service however unless it is a warranty issue.  IMO that is overpriced.

I would say that in general, that is true, but our last purchase from a dealer was an absolute nightmare *cough* Russ Darrow *cough*

We had gotten a great quote on the car we wanted via email before we even got to the dealership.  We got there, test drove it, and decided to buy it.  Then they told us a price that was $2,000 more than the email.  When we showed them the email, we were told that price assumed a $2K trade-in. When we asked where in the offer it said that, we were told it was the line "other terms and conditions may apply". They did not give us the original price until we threatened to file a complaint with the Attorney General.

To punish us, they made us cool our heels for several hours before we could fill out the paperwork.  While we were waiting, we spoke to another customer who was given the same trade-in b.s., but he had decided to give in and pay it. 

More crap from the business manager (who, when we said we didn't want an extended warranty of any kind, acted like that was literally not an option we had).  More waiting for them to bring the car around. They all but threw the keys at us.

Start to finish, it took us 5 hours to buy a car that we agreed to purchase 15 minutes in.  But I guess that worked out to about $400 an hour.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jesmu84 on August 19, 2020, 08:53:42 AM
The dealership model of car sales needs to end.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on August 19, 2020, 10:42:50 AM
Question for Hyundai and Mazda owners:  On average what would you say is longevity of vehicle?.....vs say Honda/Toyota which can probably be 300,000 miles with mostly regular maintenance minor fixes on average with good fortune.

We own 2 Hyundais, both bought new -- a 2011 Santa Fe with 83,000 miles and a 2016 Sonata Hybrid with 40,000 miles. While I can't answer your 300K mile question, I can say that both cars have been trouble-free and the couple of minor problems the Santa Fe had were covered under either the 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty or the 10-year powertrain warranty.

Both have been a pleasure to own, and if I sell my Santa Fe next year as planned, I'd have trouble justifying buying something other than a Hyundai (or Kia) to replace it. Bang for the buck, including the warranty, is hard to top. But I will stay open-minded, as I like several cars made by other companies as well.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on August 19, 2020, 11:33:17 AM
My first Mazda 6 lasted 11 years and 130k miles.   Mechanically, it was still going strong.   It was a hatch with the tacked on ground effects of the day.   There was a tiny bit of rust on a wheel well going into the polar vortex.   6 months later, the rust had really spread.   The 2015 6 has 80k miles and has never had a mechanical issue.   300k?   No idea.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 19, 2020, 11:34:45 AM
Question for Hyundai and Mazda owners:  On average what would you say is longevity of vehicle?.....vs say Honda/Toyota which can probably be 300,000 miles with mostly regular maintenance minor fixes on average with good fortune.

The owner will have a much bigger impact on the longevity of the car than the manufacturer. 
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 19, 2020, 11:37:53 AM
Dealers suck. Bought my last used car in a private sale and it was amazing. Also saved a pretty penny on sales tax (yes, I still paid sales tax, but in Illinois on private sales it is based on the age of the car vs. a percentage of the sale price from a dealer, and I saved about $1000 on that alone).

As for dealers....the last time I bought a car from a dealer, the car had 500 more miles on it than advertised. Turned out the dealer manager had been driving it to and from work. They would not knock off any more than $150 for the extra miles.

Then, when I said I wanted to pay cash, they made us wait 2 hours and still got the sales pitch from the Financing guy. We were in the dealership for like 5 hours.

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on August 19, 2020, 11:51:35 AM
My first Mazda 6 lasted 11 years and 130k miles.   Mechanically, it was still going strong.   It was a hatch with the tacked on ground effects of the day.   There was a tiny bit of rust on a wheel well going into the polar vortex.   6 months later, the rust had really spread.   The 2015 6 has 80k miles and has never had a mechanical issue.   300k?   No idea.

My post wasn't really asking if they would go 300k. It was more of acknowledging that some Honda's and Toyota's can as I have seen it. It's more of a comparison between those on the high miles end and perhaps some others that struggle at the 120k end, which I have sewn as well w/some other brands. I do appreciate everyone's feedback. 👍
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: WI inferiority Complexes on August 19, 2020, 11:57:39 AM
You would have to buy a $40k vehicle from a private party in IL to save $1,000 in sales tax, (I don’t know what you bought). A $15k vehicle will save you $300; a $30k car will save you $600 in tax.

If someone went 500 miles over on a lease, it would cost the customer between 20-25 cents per mile in overages. A $150 discount for 500 miles seems completely reasonable to me.

“Waiting longer because you are paying cash,” is complete fiction. Paying cash is by far the quickest way to buy a car.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jesmu84 on August 19, 2020, 12:00:50 PM
Announcing that you're paying cash upfront removes a whole lot of negotiating power. Don't do it.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: WI inferiority Complexes on August 19, 2020, 12:11:38 PM
I, the car salesman, could not care less if you are financing or paying cash. I get the exact same amount either way.

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on August 19, 2020, 12:28:52 PM
I have generally had positive interactions with dealers.   If the salesman pisses me off, I walk away.   I go in with a budget, a couple different models in mind, a positive attitude, and having done enough research that I know nearly as much about a car as the salesman.   If the numbers aren't close, I move on without taking it personally.   
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Billy Hoyle on August 19, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
I think the dealer experience has much improved over the last decade.  The auto companies know that this has been a problem and have been encouraging consolidation toward the dealers that give a better buyer experience.

The last three cars I have purchased have been from dealers and I thought the experience was fine.  I won't use the dealer service however unless it is a warranty issue.  IMO that is overpriced.

The dealership exerience was hit and miss for me. BMW and Subaru were really good and respectful. Some expected pressure but in the end both offered really strong deals. Volkswagon, however, were brutal. Picked the most expensive Tiguan off the lot, kept trying to get us to agree to "a really good deal" without telling us the amount, wouldn't let us leave when we said we wanted to discuss over coffee at Starbucks to compare everything. Finally when we said we had to go and would think it over lunch because we (for real) had a previously scheduled appointment they called us before we'd walked across the lot and left messages talking about a "really great deal" but no numbers.  Bastards!

Nissan was the best. I got into the Rogue and couldn't fit. The salesman said "nothing we can do about that" and we left.

When we're ready again we will likely go Carmax based upon experiences of friends.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 19, 2020, 12:45:08 PM
You would have to buy a $40k vehicle from a private party in IL to save $1,000 in sales tax, (I don’t know what you bought). A $15k vehicle will save you $300; a $30k car will save you $600 in tax.

If someone went 500 miles over on a lease, it would cost the customer between 20-25 cents per mile in overages. A $150 discount for 500 miles seems completely reasonable to me.

“Waiting longer because you are paying cash,” is complete fiction. Paying cash is by far the quickest way to buy a car.

1. Not true, you have to factor in the age of the car. I bought a very low mileage  8 year old car for $12000....sales tax due...$65. In the city of Chicago, sales tax would have been 10% of sales price at a dealer. So yeah, I saved OVER $1000 (https://www2.illinois.gov/rev/forms/sales/Documents/vehicleusetax/rut-5.pdf)

2. That is at the end of a lease. A vehicle with fewer miles depreciates more quickly per mile.

3. Hard for you to say that, considering you weren't there and don't know the practices of the dealer.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: WI inferiority Complexes on August 19, 2020, 01:06:38 PM
1. Not true, you have to factor in the age of the car. I bought a very low mileage  8 year old car for $12000....sales tax due...$65. In the city of Chicago, sales tax would have been 10% of sales price at a dealer. So yeah, I saved OVER $1000 (https://www2.illinois.gov/rev/forms/sales/Documents/vehicleusetax/rut-5.pdf)

That is different for old vehicles. I apologize, I missed that.


2. A vehicle with fewer miles depreciates more quickly per mile.

I’m not sure I understand. Let’s say you’re buying a 2017 Impala with an advertised 35,183 miles for $20k. You get to the dealership, and it has 35,683. Then it would be ok to get $150 off?

But if the vehicle was advertised as having 2,183, and in reality had 2,683, you’d want more than $150 off?


3. Hard for you to say that, considering you weren't there and don't know the practices of the dealer.

But, just as hard for you to say, no? I’m just trying to picture it. “Yeah, I only got one up on Saturday, and had to entertain Coleman the whole day. Chris put his deal at the bottom of the pile because he was paying cash.”
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 19, 2020, 01:13:37 PM
Pretty common knowledge that cars depreciate much faster when they are newer and have fewer miles.

A car going from 7,500 to 8,000 miles will depreciate more than a car going from 150,000 to 150,500
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on August 19, 2020, 02:17:56 PM
I've had some good dealer experiences, mostly on my last few buys as it's so easy to go in very prepared now. Years (and decades) ago, I had some epic tussles, 3 of which led me to walk out of the dealerships even though a decent amount of time had been spent in negotiations.

I won't waste everybody's time with all these anecdotes, but I will say that one involved my salesman actually using the N-word, very casually as if it was something he said all the time, to describe former Minnesota North Stars player Tony McKegney. I couldn't believe my ears, said out loud, "What the fu%#?!?" and stormed out past several disbelieving salesmen and customers. When I got home, I called his manager and reported him. I hope he got fired, but I never checked.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: warriorchick on August 19, 2020, 02:35:53 PM

I won't waste everybody's time with all these anecdotes, but I will say that one involved my salesman actually using the N-word, very casually as if it was something he said all the time, to describe former Minnesota North Stars player Tony McKegney. I couldn't believe my ears, said out loud, "What the fu%#?!?" and stormed out past several disbelieving salesmen and customers. When I got home, I called his manager and reported him. I hope he got fired, but I never checked.

You were in the South, right?

One of my female friends went to a dealership in Nashville and she was fully prepared to purchase a car.  The salesperson saw her wedding ring and told her that he would not sell her a car unless her husband was with her.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 19, 2020, 02:41:40 PM
Pretty common knowledge that cars depreciate much faster when they are newer and have fewer miles.

A car going from 7,500 to 8,000 miles will depreciate more than a car going from 150,000 to 150,500


I always buy new, so perhaps that's why I haven't had many problems with dealers.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on August 19, 2020, 03:22:10 PM
The general current advice I have been seeing (as I have been looking for a couple of vehicles) is to buy a one year old car and keep it until the warranty is finished and then move on from it. I know there was a time when some would say 3 years used was a sweet spot. One can also buy new if planning to keep long time. So it all depends.

As far as dealer financing vs cash or your own financing, the salesperson may not care but once you get to the finance office that person cares as does the owner of the dealer. Their financing is a money maker for them, on top of other fees and add ons they will try to do when you get to that department.

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on August 19, 2020, 04:40:32 PM
You were in the South, right?

Kind of ... I was in Bloomington, a suburb south of Minneapolis!

It was the damnedest thing.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on August 19, 2020, 04:44:44 PM
The general current advice I have been seeing (as I have been looking for a couple of vehicles) is to buy a one year old car and keep it until the warranty is finished and then move on from it. I know there was a time when some would say 3 years used was a sweet spot. One can also buy new if planning to keep long time. So it all depends.

As far as dealer financing vs cash or your own financing, the salesperson may not care but once you get to the finance office that person cares as does the owner of the dealer. Their financing is a money maker for them, on top of other fees and add ons they will try to do when you get to that department.

With both Hyundais, the national rebate programs they had going at the time required me to finance with Hyundai. So I did it and then paid it off within a week each time. The first cost me about $75 in interest to get $1500; the second cost me about $65 to get $1000. Both were mild hassles, but worth it ultimately.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 19, 2020, 05:01:31 PM
The dealership model of car sales needs to end.


Agreed...except for used car sales.

They can represent that it was a 'non-smoking' car and that there is a certain amount of wear and tear, smell or other quirk of a used car on a website, but it isn't anything like sitting in, seeing and smelling a car in person.

(FWIW - I happen to know this from buying a CPO Mercedes a while back. I can't stand the smell of stale smoke, and emailed the dealership ahead of time to verify that it was a smoke-free car. He said the records said it was, and he sat in and smelled it and believed it was, so we went to check it out. I knew immediately it was smoked in. The dealer didn't smell it, so I asked him to let me sit in a couple of others until I found a used car that I believed was smoke-free until I found one. Then I asked him to sit in one then quickly move to the other. Grudgingly, he admitted he could smell the difference. The last thing I'd ever want is to go through the hassle of the buy and return thing for some car I bought online with a salesman who 'swears' it really was smoke-free.)
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 19, 2020, 05:07:10 PM
You were in the South, right?

One of my female friends went to a dealership in Nashville and she was fully prepared to purchase a car.  The salesperson saw her wedding ring and told her that he would not sell her a car unless her husband was with her.

LOL.

I was buying my first new car in Nashville. We went to the Mitsubishi dealer (back in '92, when they still made cars), and tested the Galant. The car was OK, but I was grossed out by the salesman constantly spitting his tobacco spit into a Coke bottle. Ended up buying a Honda Accord and loved it.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: warriorchick on August 19, 2020, 06:11:02 PM
The general current advice I have been seeing (as I have been looking for a couple of vehicles) is to buy a one year old car and keep it until the warranty is finished and then move on from it.

If you buy a reliable car, any repairs you might need are going to be way less than a new car payment. Also, 1 year old cars are pretty hard to come by.

I usually buy a 2 or 3 year old car and drive it until it dies.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 19, 2020, 07:06:57 PM
The general current advice I have been seeing (as I have been looking for a couple of vehicles) is to buy a one year old car and keep it until the warranty is finished and then move on from it. I know there was a time when some would say 3 years used was a sweet spot. One can also buy new if planning to keep long time. So it all depends.

As far as dealer financing vs cash or your own financing, the salesperson may not care but once you get to the finance office that person cares as does the owner of the dealer. Their financing is a money maker for them, on top of other fees and add ons they will try to do when you get to that department.




Yeah butt, da dealer iz still movin' inventory and gettin' it off da floor plan. Dat's da name of da game, aina?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: WI inferiority Complexes on August 19, 2020, 07:33:24 PM



Yeah butt, da dealer iz still movin' inventory and gettin' it off da floor plan. Dat's da name of da game, aina?
Move the metal.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: WI inferiority Complexes on August 19, 2020, 07:48:52 PM
The general current advice I have been seeing (as I have been looking for a couple of vehicles) is to buy a one year old car and keep it until the warranty is finished and then move on from it. I know there was a time when some would say 3 years used was a sweet spot. One can also buy new if planning to keep long time. So it all depends.

As far as dealer financing vs cash or your own financing, the salesperson may not care but once you get to the finance office that person cares as does the owner of the dealer. Their financing is a money maker for them, on top of other fees and add ons they will try to do when you get to that department.

What are you looking for, (maybe we have one)?

"Gently used" vehicles are nice.  I sell GM, and a General Motors Certified Pre-Owned is a vehicle that falls within the last five model years and has under 75k miles. 

The purchaser of a CPO will get the remainder of the factory bumper-to-bumper warranty (if there is any) as well as an additional 12 months/12k miles, two complimentary oil changes/tire rotations, free trials of XM and Onstar, and Roadside Assistance.  The Powertrain warranty on a Certified also gets extended to 100k miles, and the vehicle passes a 172-point inspection, assuring that the brake pads are at least  50%, there is at least 4/10 of tread on tires, etc.

We buy these Certified vehicles thru GM auctions, (some are 1 year-old and were driven by GM execs who have to drive the current model year, and swap out after 12 months; others are 3ish years old and are lease returns, a few are trade-ins or purchased thru a rental agency).

Personally, I lease a new vehicle for the family cruiser.  I've run into my share of "experts" who tell
 me what a rip-off a lease is, but I guess I just like taking advantage of myself.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: WI inferiority Complexes on August 19, 2020, 07:59:01 PM
Pretty common knowledge that cars depreciate much faster when they are newer and have fewer miles.

A car going from 7,500 to 8,000 miles will depreciate more than a car going from 150,000 to 150,500

Every used car on our lot has an online price ending in either "586" or "986."  (Our most expensive used vehicle is an '18 Yukon Denali for $54,586; our cheapest is a '04 Kia Forte for $5,986.)

I can't think of a time I have ever given an appraisal figure to a customer that didn't end with a "0."   I guess my point is virtually every car that has 7,500 miles would be worth the same is if it had 8,000 miles.  Maybe not Cameron's Dad car from Ferris Bueller, but certainly all these Mazdas everyone on this board seems to get so hard over.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jesmu84 on August 19, 2020, 08:34:49 PM
Why can't we just buy (new) cars direct from the manufacturer?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on August 19, 2020, 08:36:47 PM
Tesla is trying that.   Currently outlawed in Michigan.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: mu_hilltopper on August 19, 2020, 08:57:22 PM
I had an odd experience last year.  I was buying a 3 year old car and found a good model outside Chicago.  I played the usual game, you fill out a form on the website for their "ePrice" and it's a few hundred bucks lower than what it's listed as.

After a few emails, I make them an offer.  It's not stupid low, but I figured they'd counter a little, I'd counter a little, then we'd split the difference.    I'm a buyer.  I want this car, I'm on the dance floor.

Instead, I get "yeah, um, we gave you the price."  Via email, this sounds like just a part of the game .. eventually they reluctantly come down $250 -- and add the deal-killer "someone else is looking at the car tomorrow." 

Frankly, they appeared offended I was trying to bargain with them.

Later, a different salesguy said, in different words, they were a no-haggle dealership.   I'm like .. you might want to put that on your website or something up front.

I ended up buying the car there .. they did negotiate on the trade in and my desire to screw around for a grand was low. 

(It's Rocky's money anyhow, we all get Scoop company cars.)
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 19, 2020, 09:30:18 PM
Why can't we just buy (new) cars direct from the manufacturer?

Federal government says you can't.  Not sure how Tesla gets away with it to the degree they do.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 19, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
but certainly all these Mazdas everyone on this board seems to get so hard over.

Its a little baffling.  Its like no one has driven a fun car before.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jesmu84 on August 19, 2020, 09:53:16 PM
Federal government says you can't.  Not sure how Tesla gets away with it to the degree they do.

Antiquated business model that needs to die. Does relatively nothing besides screw the consumer
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: WI inferiority Complexes on August 19, 2020, 10:09:43 PM
Why can't we just buy (new) cars direct from the manufacturer?
The “M” in MSRP stands for manufacturer. If you want to pay MSRP, I promise I’ll sell you a car and we never have to interact. Deal?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: dgies9156 on August 20, 2020, 12:02:57 AM
The easiest dealership experience I ever had was with a GM dealer in the Northern Chicago suburbs. Looked around but went to a Buick/GMC dealer in my neighborhood, where I bought a Buick Enclave (new). Price was incredible, people were fair and honest and there were no surprises. Car now has 117,000 miles on it and still looks like it is brand new.

Bets thing about it was when the car was selected and we negotiated, I walked home until the paperwork was ready. They called, I went over, reviewed everything, signed, gave them the check and drove off.

Liked the dealer so much I bought a Buick LaCrosse from him a year later. Same sales people. Honest, hardworking folks who found the car I wanted in the color I wanted. Negotiated a fair but not great deal. Still have the care eight years and 74,000 miles later.

BMW was the pushiest. I purchased a wonderful 528i from a dealer in Westmont. Agreed on the price and then spent an ungodly amount of time in the finance office. Tried to sell us a BMW maintenance package by saying, "you do know a BMW oil change costs $450.00." My wife, God love her, looked at the sales guy and said, "you have heard of Jiffy Lube, I presume?" The guy looked back at her and said, "you don't take a BMW to Jiffy Lube." My wife said back, "maybe you don't.... but...."

BMW, I'll admit, had the best financing package I've ever seen. Three year old CPO BMW and we were going to pay cash until they offered us two years for 0.99 percent.

Worst dealer experience was in the late 1980s in Downers Grove. It was a Chevy Dealer and we were talking about a second car for my wife. We went in together and the sales idiot began taking to me and ignoring my wife -- who would drive the car. Told me the features, etc., and asked, well, what do you think. I knew what he was doing and didn't like it much better than my wife did, so I answered him, "why are you asking me, it's her car!" The color ran out of the sales dude's face as he realized the extent of his ignorance.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on August 20, 2020, 07:44:30 AM
The owner will have a much bigger impact on the longevity of the car than the manufacturer.

This 100%.  My parent's Mazda's usually get traded in or sold before they truly break.  Check reliability reports, and look at recalls.  That should give you a decent idea of longevity not based on ownership.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on August 20, 2020, 07:46:45 AM
LOL.

I was buying my first new car in Nashville. We went to the Mitsubishi dealer (back in '92, when they still made cars), and tested the Galant. The car was OK, but I was grossed out by the salesman constantly spitting his tobacco spit into a Coke bottle. Ended up buying a Honda Accord and loved it.

Mitsubishi still makes cars.  Technically.  They're really just pieces of crap with 4 wheels and an engine.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on August 20, 2020, 07:50:40 AM
Its a little baffling.  Its like no one has driven a fun car before.

Then name your 'fun' car so we can compare..  Mazda makes fun, reliable, good looking cars for reasonable prices.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: warriorchick on August 20, 2020, 08:12:26 AM
The “M” in MSRP stands for manufacturer. If you want to pay MSRP, I promise I’ll sell you a car and we never have to interact. Deal?

And the "S" stands for "suggested".  If I bake a pie and sell it to a grocery store, I could put an MSRP of $1,000 on it.  That doesn't necessarily mean that if I start selling my pies by mail order, I will be charging $1,000 apiece for them.

The sticker is B.S., just like the "invoice" is B.S.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on August 20, 2020, 08:17:59 AM
Wi inferiority complexes sells Buicks.   He is permitted to speak ill of other brands.   He should say something like, "It looks like every Mazda buyer in the America is on this board" because that would be funny when you look at Mazda's sales numbers.

Good on ya, Wi IC.   And thanks for the perspective.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: warriorchick on August 20, 2020, 08:19:05 AM
Then name your 'fun' car so we can compare..  Mazda makes fun, reliable, good looking cars for reasonable prices.

Yes, I would have to say that my MX-5 is a pretty fun car.  And for the price, you can't beat it, especially when you find a 12-year-old one in mint condition 13K miles for a fraction of the price of a new one.  Not only is it fun, one would be hard-pressed to find a car with a higher fun/cost ratio.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 20, 2020, 08:23:04 AM
No wonder MU's endowment sucks ass, hey?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on August 20, 2020, 09:16:09 AM
No wonder MU's endowment sucks ass, hey?

I know you're being facetious, but big name schools will always get the big donations... which increases their endowment... which increases the interest gained... etc.

Gotta have money to make money.  A tale as old as time.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 20, 2020, 09:30:14 AM
Ya can't make big donations if you are spending money on cars.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on August 20, 2020, 10:57:18 AM
If you buy a reliable car, any repairs you might need are going to be way less than a new car payment. Also, 1 year old cars are pretty hard to come by.

I usually buy a 2 or 3 year old car and drive it until it dies.

We bought our 2019 Kona used with 700 miles on it less than 6 months after it was 1st sold. Just coincidence that the 1st buyer felt it was too small for her needs.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 20, 2020, 11:27:42 AM
The “M” in MSRP stands for manufacturer. If you want to pay MSRP, I promise I’ll sell you a car and we never have to interact. Deal?

Hahah.  No kidding.  If you took dealers out, everyone would pay the same price, but it would be much higher.  The reasons manufacturers can't sell direct is for price fixing.  If the manufacturers were the only ones who could sell their cars, the price would essentially be fixed, because you couldn't go across town for leverage.  Maybe you could go from the Ford store, to the GM, to the Ram or whatever, but essentially the prices would be fixed.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on August 20, 2020, 11:35:45 AM
Hahah.  No kidding.  If you took dealers out, everyone would pay the same price, but it would be much higher.  The reasons manufacturers can't sell direct is for price fixing.  If the manufacturers were the only ones who could sell their cars, the price would essentially be fixed, because you couldn't go across town for leverage.  Maybe you could go from the Ford store, to the GM, to the Ram or whatever, but essentially the prices would be fixed.

Is this really a thing?  I find it hard to believe that the only industry where this is the case is automobiles.

We don't have problems with airlines price fixing, etc.

Can you elaborate?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 20, 2020, 11:35:58 AM
Then name your 'fun' car so we can compare..  Mazda makes fun, reliable, good looking cars for reasonable prices.

In no particular order, my favorites have been for sheer driving joy, the Pontiac Trans Am and the Dodge Charger R/T.  I have to say though, I think my favorite was my Wrangler. 
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 20, 2020, 11:37:03 AM
Is this really a thing?  I find it hard to believe that the only industry where this is the case is automobiles.

We don't have problems with airlines price fixing, etc.

Can you elaborate?

That's the basis for the law.  Not saying it still makes a ton of sense, but that's government for you.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 20, 2020, 11:41:30 AM
That’s not how it works guys.  Every business has an MSRP if they sell through a channel with an implied profit.  The reason it is MSRP is that the manufacturer cannot legally set prices for a retailer.  Those decisions are the sole discretion of that retailer

If the manufacturer wants to drive more volume, they fund promotions.  Again though it is the retailers discretion on what price is set and what promotions are run.  And yes, most categories compete on price against competition, but also retailers compete (think TGT vs WMT on laundry detergent).

Where a mfg has channels that add value they purposely don’t compete directly as it is difficult to both sell to and compete with  your customers.  If a mfg sold ‘direct’ the pricing would likely be dictated based on the way it is today.  Volume and profit targets. 

So the question is, does the dealer add anything to the customer to justify their profit.  Also why is this mandated and not a decision for the manufacturer like other categories.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 20, 2020, 11:48:05 AM

Where a mfg has channels that add value they purposely don’t compete directly as it is difficult to both sell to and compete with  your customers.  If a mfg sold ‘direct’ the pricing would likely be dictated based on the way it is today.  Volume and profit targets. 


I don't get what you are saying here?  Are you saying that dealerships don't compete with each other?  I must be misinterpreting what you are saying because that is straight bonkers. 
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on August 20, 2020, 11:49:38 AM

In no particular order, my favorites have been for sheer driving joy, the Pontiac Trans Am and the Dodge Charger R/T.  I have to say though, I think my favorite was my Wrangler.

Straight line speed over handling, got it.  ;)
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 20, 2020, 11:51:37 AM
I don't get what you are saying here?  Are you saying that dealerships don't compete with each other?  I must be misinterpreting what you are saying because that is straight bonkers.

No they are.  I am saying a manufacturer in other categories (use laundry again) will not choose to sell direct and compete with its customers even if there is potential for more profit.

In the auto example it would be ford going direct in Milwaukee against its franchisees (if that were legal).
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 20, 2020, 11:58:26 AM
Tesla is trying that.   Currently outlawed in Michigan.

Same in Connecticut.  They've been trying to change but the auto dealerships will not accept.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 20, 2020, 11:59:50 AM
No they are.  I am saying a manufacturer in other categories (use laundry again) will not choose to sell direct and compete with its customers even if there is potential for more profit.

In the auto example it would be ford going direct in Milwaukee against its franchisees (if that were legal).

Ah, correct.  Yes. 

Dealers don't even really make their money based on individual units.  They make money based on reaching program goals.  Going back to an earlier point, it would make no sense for a dealer to park a customer for 5 hours because they were paying cash.  Yeah of course they make money on financing, but they (for the most part) want to get customers in and out to get to the next customer.  Slowing down the process just to spite a customer would be spiting themselves and screwing their sales people/ managers/ F&I people
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 20, 2020, 12:00:17 PM
That’s not how it works guys.  Every business has an MSRP if they sell through a channel with an implied profit.  The reason it is MSRP is that the manufacturer cannot legally set prices for a retailer.  Those decisions are the sole discretion of that retailer

If the manufacturer wants to drive more volume, they fund promotions.  Again though it is the retailers discretion on what price is set and what promotions are run.  And yes, most categories compete on price against competition, but also retailers compete (think TGT vs WMT on laundry detergent).

Where a mfg has channels that add value they purposely don’t compete directly as it is difficult to both sell to and compete with  your customers.  If a mfg sold ‘direct’ the pricing would likely be dictated based on the way it is today.  Volume and profit targets. 

So the question is, does the dealer add anything to the customer to justify their profit.  Also why is this mandated and not a decision for the manufacturer like other categories.

Wasn't that the deal when GM founded Saturn.  There was one price for whatever model you bought and that was it.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 20, 2020, 12:00:32 PM
No they are.  I am saying a manufacturer in other categories (use laundry again) will not choose to sell direct and compete with its customers even if there is potential for more profit.

In the auto example it would be ford going direct in Milwaukee against its franchisees (if that were legal).


IOW, a car manufacturer is going to be more profitable in the long run if it focuses on making cars and leaving the selling to those who specialize in that.  Just like P&G doesn't sell its products directly, but uses retail stores to do so.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 20, 2020, 12:04:25 PM
Straight line speed over handling, got it.  ;)

That freaking Charger handled like a million bucks.  And it certainly didn't lack anything in straight line speed either.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on August 20, 2020, 12:24:44 PM
That freaking Charger handled like a million bucks.  And it certainly didn't lack anything in straight line speed either.

Have chick zip you around in their mx5... then you can see how a car can really handle.  ;D
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 20, 2020, 12:35:30 PM
Have chick zip you around in their mx5... then you can see how a car can really handle.  ;D

Oh, I've driven one, the Fiat version anyways.  And they're neat little things.  But comparing it to a Charger is like saying a great HS running back could out maneuver an NFL back.

A nice thing about the Chargers is that they are a bit heavy for a muscle car, which maybe hurts a little in straight acceleration, but it sure helps it handle.  And it handles great, even at high speeds. 

I'd also wager that the Charger is a fair bit better in the snow.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 20, 2020, 12:42:07 PM
Scoop company cars


(https://www.cashcarsbuyer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Cash-For-Junk-Cars-Providence-RI-scaled.jpg)
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 20, 2020, 12:43:48 PM
The “M” in MSRP stands for manufacturer. If you want to pay MSRP, I promise I’ll sell you a car and we never have to interact. Deal?

Yes but if dealer didn't have to get a cut, MSRP would be lower.

Seriously what value does a dealer add?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on August 20, 2020, 12:44:14 PM
 NM

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 20, 2020, 12:45:43 PM
Ah, correct.  Yes. 

Dealers don't even really make their money based on individual units.  They make money based on reaching program goals.  Going back to an earlier point, it would make no sense for a dealer to park a customer for 5 hours because they were paying cash.  Yeah of course they make money on financing, but they (for the most part) want to get customers in and out to get to the next customer.  Slowing down the process just to spite a customer would be spiting themselves and screwing their sales people/ managers/ F&I people

You'd think, wouldn't ya? Didn't happen that way though.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 20, 2020, 12:48:29 PM
You'd think, wouldn't ya? Didn't happen that way though.

I would, yeah, obviously there can be exceptions.  But especially if you were a t the dealer on like a Saturday, when they were busy, a 5 hr experience isn't outside the norm. 

I'm not saying they didn't do that to you.  Maybe they did because of some vendetta.  But on the whole, the dealership wants you in and out to be able to have another customer.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on August 20, 2020, 01:03:53 PM
I recently very randomly watched the Paul Rudd (minor role) film “The Perks of being a Wallflower” after passing it numerous times on Netflix. I knew nothing about it. Enjoyed the film as well as the music.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BothTediousBoaconstrictor-max-1mb.gif)
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: shoothoops on August 20, 2020, 01:15:18 PM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BothTediousBoaconstrictor-max-1mb.gif)

Whoops clicked wrong thread. My bad.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: dgies9156 on August 20, 2020, 01:21:38 PM
You were in the South, right?

One of my female friends went to a dealership in Nashville and she was fully prepared to purchase a car.  The salesperson saw her wedding ring and told her that he would not sell her a car unless her husband was with her.

That happened with my Mom at a Pontiac dealer in Nashville years ago. He would not sell her a car, though she had cash, without my Dad’s permission. So my Mom had the salesman call my Dad at work.

My very angry Mom said to go ahead. The salesman called and my Dad really growled at the salesman and said, what the hell are you bothering me with this crap for. She is an adult and capable of making decisions. He then hung up and told him there are other dealers nearby.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: warriorchick on August 20, 2020, 01:28:35 PM
I would, yeah, obviously there can be exceptions.  But especially if you were a t the dealer on like a Saturday, when they were busy, a 5 hr experience isn't outside the norm. 

I'm not saying they didn't do that to you.  Maybe they did because of some vendetta.  But on the whole, the dealership wants you in and out to be able to have another customer.

This was a used car that they had just acquired, and we got a much better price than they intended to sell it for.  My guess is that they were hoping we would get disgusted and walk out so that they could sell it to someone else.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 20, 2020, 01:45:03 PM
NM

Wrong thread.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 20, 2020, 02:23:31 PM
I would, yeah, obviously there can be exceptions.  But especially if you were a t the dealer on like a Saturday, when they were busy, a 5 hr experience isn't outside the norm. 

I'm not saying they didn't do that to you.  Maybe they did because of some vendetta.  But on the whole, the dealership wants you in and out to be able to have another customer.

Even if it wasn't intentional, there's something seriously wrong with a business model where it takes five hours to complete a cash transaction.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jesmu84 on August 20, 2020, 02:29:45 PM

So the question is, does the dealer add anything to the customer to justify their profit.  Also why is this mandated and not a decision for the manufacturer like other categories.

No.

Make the manufacturers compete with each other for pricing, quality, etc.

Eliminate the middle men that have no use.

It made sense before computers/internet. Now it's useless. Car dealerships add zero value to the transaction.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: JWags85 on August 20, 2020, 04:24:29 PM
If anyone can get their hands on a log-in for Mannheim or other auto auctions, that’s the golden ticket.  We had an employee years back that had a wholesale license cause he had a background in automotive work and still found cars s a side hustle.  He used to help us at the auction.

 But even though he moved on, the log in he set up for us still works.  So you can see the inventory and what similar cars went for in previous auctions.  We found a nearby used car dealer, offered him a few hundred bucks, and we get him a list of targets and prices.

All the cars are 2-3 years old, coming off lease, you’re bidding against similar dealers. We’ve gotten crazy value over the years. My favorite was a used Jetta I had in HS. We got it for around $9K from the auction. Drove it for 2.5-3 years.

Parked it on Wells overnight while visiting a friend who lived in McCormick.  Woke up and walked to my car to see Wells blocked off between 16th and 17th. Told the police I was parked basically across from Real Chili and they let me through. Few cars away and I see my car’s front tire on the curb. Strange... Get closer and see a smoking Nissan Murano and bashed in the front end.  Driver ran a red light, broadsided a church van so hard it blew all the windows out, and then came careening into my car. Changed a flat and then drove it home seemingly ok but banged up. Turns out it was totaled when we took it in, tons of internal damage.

Long story short, insurance replacement value...$9850. 10% more than we paid 3 years prior. Loved it
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on August 20, 2020, 07:18:53 PM

(https://www.cashcarsbuyer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Cash-For-Junk-Cars-Providence-RI-scaled.jpg)

Nice.

We moved to Chicago in 1994 and lived on the North Side near the Lincoln/Addison intersection. There was a small lot on the southwest corner that had a used car dealer on it, maybe 20 cars. The prizes: His and hers Yugos.

We often would take walks past that intersection and always joked that we should buy them.

Then, one day, the dealership was gone, replaced eventually by a small park and condo building.

When we visited Chicago last week, we drove by there and immediately said, "That's where the Yugos were!"
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: dgies9156 on August 20, 2020, 08:06:09 PM
Even if it wasn't intentional, there's something seriously wrong with a business model where it takes five hours to complete a cash transaction.

It's real simple. You have the upper hand. You tell the dealer he has a certain amount of time to complete the transaction. If he doesn't, there are competitive companies nearby.

Brother WI Inferiority, how long does it usually take for you to get a buyer in and out of a dealer? I'm guessing if someone told you up front the deal was hinging on it, you would find a way. That's great customer service and you Buick dealers are known for that.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: WI inferiority Complexes on August 20, 2020, 08:59:35 PM
It's real simple. You have the upper hand. You tell the dealer he has a certain amount of time to complete the transaction. If he doesn't, there are competitive companies nearby.

Brother WI Inferiority, how long does it usually take for you to get a buyer in and out of a dealer? I'm guessing if someone told you up front the deal was hinging on it, you would find a way. That's great customer service and you Buick dealers are known for that.

If you are the only person in the dealership currently buying a car, the entire process should take less than an hour. 

If it is longer, chances are it is because of a credit issue on your end.  This is not passing judgment on anyone, but if you don't automatically qualify for 0%, Tier 1 leasing, etc, it takes some calls to get you "run up the ladder," and approved.  New car dealerships are not a "buy here/pay here" used lots, so we will always somewhat at the mercy of banks.

If you decide to buy a vehicle at 2:00 on a Saturday afternoon, I have to gently, in a customer-friendly manner, explain that this may take a while.  The customer(s) ahead of you may be "get-me-dones" who need special attention.  It is what it is.  I work crapty hours, (I'm at work now), and if I'm willing to sell you a car from 9am-9pm four days a week, I don't feel terrible that you have to wait a bit on a Saturday.  Besides,  I tended bar at Conway's for two years; I'm pretty good at holding a conversation and passing the time.

I understand the idea that the customer has the "upper hand," and I guess in theory that's true; however, isn't it the job of a good salesman, (cars, mattresses, pharmaceutical supplies, whatever), to gain that edge?  That basically what I am always trying to do.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: dgies9156 on August 21, 2020, 08:04:05 AM
If you are the only person in the dealership currently buying a car, the entire process should take less than an hour. 

If it is longer, chances are it is because of a credit issue on your end.  This is not passing judgment on anyone, but if you don't automatically qualify for 0%, Tier 1 leasing, etc, it takes some calls to get you "run up the ladder," and approved.  New car dealerships are not a "buy here/pay here" used lots, so we will always somewhat at the mercy of banks.

If you decide to buy a vehicle at 2:00 on a Saturday afternoon, I have to gently, in a customer-friendly manner, explain that this may take a while.  The customer(s) ahead of you may be "get-me-dones" who need special attention.  It is what it is.  I work crapty hours, (I'm at work now), and if I'm willing to sell you a car from 9am-9pm four days a week, I don't feel terrible that you have to wait a bit on a Saturday.  Besides,  I tended bar at Conway's for two years; I'm pretty good at holding a conversation and passing the time.

I understand the idea that the customer has the "upper hand," and I guess in theory that's true; however, isn't it the job of a good salesman, (cars, mattresses, pharmaceutical supplies, whatever), to gain that edge?  That basically what I am always trying to do.

You are absolutely right. I would appreciate your candor and clearly understand where you are coming from. If I lived in Milwaukee, I’d come see you!

You are so right about the financing. I went with my son to purchase a car a few months back. My credit is fantastic but his is what you would expect for a 22-year-old. We titled the car together (since the money for the car and the payments on the short term were mine) and applied for credit together. It was the first time since I was his age I’d been turned down for credit. The dealer was giving us an incentive on the price to finance (Nissan), so I just swallowed and let him do his thing. We ended up with credit but the rate was a lot, lot higher than I paid on my used BMW.

Brother WI Inferiority, I agree with you that it is all about expectations and communicating clearly to a customer!

 
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on August 21, 2020, 08:17:35 AM
You are absolutely right. I would appreciate your candor and clearly understand where you are coming from. If I lived in Milwaukee, I’d come see you!

You are so right about the financing. I went with my son to purchase a car a few months back. My credit is fantastic but his is what you would expect for a 22-year-old. We titled the car together (since the money for the car and the payments on the short term were mine) and applied for credit together. It was the first time since I was his age I’d been turned down for credit. The dealer was giving us an incentive on the price to finance (Nissan), so I just swallowed and let him do his thing. We ended up with credit but the rate was a lot, lot higher than I paid on my used BMW.

Brother WI Inferiority, I agree with you that it is all about expectations and communicating clearly to a customer!

Honest question, why not go through your son's bank or credit union for the car loan?  They usually have better rates.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 21, 2020, 09:17:43 AM
Even if it wasn't intentional, there's something seriously wrong with a business model where it takes five hours to complete a cash transaction.

You're not wrong, and the fact of the matter is that if a dealership has something like 10-12 sales people, they probably have 1-2 finance people.  So no matter whether you are paying cash or not, the people in front of you in the line may not be, and they may not have good credit, and they may not have come in prepared.  And that makes things take longer, even if you are prepared and ready to go. 
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 21, 2020, 09:22:55 AM
It's real simple. You have the upper hand. You tell the dealer he has a certain amount of time to complete the transaction. If he doesn't, there are competitive companies nearby.


I'd add a yeah, but here.  If you've already spent what 1-2 hours at a dealer are you really going to to to another dealer and start the entire process over again?  You may show the first dealer you mean business, but odds are you would end up using much more of your day.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on August 21, 2020, 09:45:46 AM
It's real simple. You have the upper hand. You tell the dealer he has a certain amount of time to complete the transaction. If he doesn't, there are competitive companies nearby.

Brother WI Inferiority, how long does it usually take for you to get a buyer in and out of a dealer? I'm guessing if someone told you up front the deal was hinging on it, you would find a way. That's great customer service and you Buick dealers are known for that.

For some folks, they feel they already have invested a lot of time in the process, so they don't want to just give up and start over. Not saying if that is the right or wrong mindset, but it is a human reaction.

The negotiation often takes longer than I like, but that's in part because I'm just as determined to have the "upper hand" as the salesperson and/or manager are. What I don't like is that even when I buy with cash (as I like to do), I have to wait in line for the business manager, who then tries to talk me into financing, into buying the extended warranty, etc. I have come to accept it as part of the price of doing business, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 21, 2020, 09:50:04 AM
No.

Make the manufacturers compete with each other for pricing, quality, etc.

Eliminate the middle men that have no use.

It made sense before computers/internet. Now it's useless. Car dealerships add zero value to the transaction.

Don't you think this is already happening?  Car manufacturers are hyper-competitive with each other, and consumers have really reaped the rewards.  Cars companies are making cars that are more reliable, safer, cooler and more technologically advanced than ever.  And as one competitor releases a new feature, vehicle, or strategy others follow suit as quickly as possible.  In fact, there has been some consolidation in the industry because companies are spending so much on basically parallel R&D that it doesn't always make sense, but they have to do it because the market demands it.

And you sure are throwing a lot of people to the unemployment lines pretty casually because you deem them "useless'.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Hards_Alumni on August 21, 2020, 09:57:26 AM
Don't you think this is already happening?  Car manufacturers are hyper-competitive with each other, and consumers have really reaped the rewards.  Cars companies are making cars that are more reliable, safer, cooler and more technologically advanced than ever.  And as one competitor releases a new feature, vehicle, or strategy others follow suit as quickly as possible.  In fact, there has been some consolidation in the industry because companies are spending so much on basically parallel R&D that it doesn't always make sense, but they have to do it because the market demands it.

And you sure are throwing a lot of people to the unemployment lines pretty casually because you deem them "useless'.

Can't they just find other jobs?  No one gave a solitary dook when we sent our customer support services overseas. 

When an industry is no longer viable, should we just prop it up forever?  What about the poor people who made film for cameras?  I'm sure we can think of plenty of examples.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 21, 2020, 10:20:28 AM
I would argue that car dealerships don't provide "zero value" to the transaction from the view of the auto manufacturer.  I don't think auto manufacturers want to get into the direct sales business.  They want dealerships that give the customer a decent experience given the fact that it is likely the second or third most expensive thing they will buy in their lifetimes.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 21, 2020, 10:21:17 AM
Can't they just find other jobs?  No one gave a solitary dook when we sent our customer support services overseas. 

When an industry is no longer viable, should we just prop it up forever?  What about the poor people who made film for cameras?  I'm sure we can think of plenty of examples.

Yeah.  Totally.  But one guy, who seems fairly ignorant to the industry, saying people are useless because he had a bad dealership experience is a little different than being made  technologically obsolete.

Several people have already pointed out some of the ways dealers add value.

Right now, dealers are in the midst of a process change because the pandemic has forced remote sales onto them.  The entire auto industry is a bit slow to change, because there is alot of inertia, but their models are actually adapting as we speak.

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 21, 2020, 10:21:56 AM
Don't you think this is already happening?  Car manufacturers are hyper-competitive with each other, and consumers have really reaped the rewards.  Cars companies are making cars that are more reliable, safer, cooler and more technologically advanced than ever.  And as one competitor releases a new feature, vehicle, or strategy others follow suit as quickly as possible.  In fact, there has been some consolidation in the industry because companies are spending so much on basically parallel R&D that it doesn't always make sense, but they have to do it because the market demands it.


I agree with this completely.  I bought a new car in February.  If you would have told me even ten years ago what this car would come with, at the price I paid, I would have said you're crazy.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 21, 2020, 01:08:59 PM
It's real simple. You have the upper hand. You tell the dealer he has a certain amount of time to complete the transaction. If he doesn't, there are competitive companies nearby.


Right, which is why I will only ever buy private sale going forward. The dealership experience sucks.

It would be refreshing if the feedback was actually taken to heart instead of just blaming customers for crappy experience. This is how industries become disrupted. Car dealerships are not immune.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 21, 2020, 01:10:58 PM
I don't think auto manufacturers want to get into the direct sales business. 

Tesla wants to. The only reason they can't is because of stupid laws propped up by dealership lobbies

No one here is saying outlaw dealerships. If a manufacturer really wants to keep using an antiquated sales model, fine. But there should be freedom to try other models too.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 21, 2020, 01:21:10 PM
Tesla wants to. The only reason they can't is because of stupid laws propped up by dealership lobbies

No one here is saying outlaw dealerships. If a manufacturer really wants to keep using an antiquated sales model, fine. But there should be freedom to try other models too.


I agree with you.  No reason those laws should exist unless it is to protect previous franchise relationships.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: warriorchick on August 21, 2020, 01:50:35 PM
Can't they just find other jobs?  No one gave a solitary dook when we sent our customer support services overseas. 

When an industry is no longer viable, should we just prop it up forever?  What about the poor people who made film for cameras?  I'm sure we can think of plenty of examples.

We should have never invented cars in the first place. Think of all the stage coach drivers and blacksmiths that were thrown out of work.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 21, 2020, 04:03:31 PM
We should have never invented cars in the first place. Think of all the stage coach drivers and blacksmiths that were thrown out of work.

That's not what I was saying at all.  If dealerships are made obsolete, than RIP dealership model.  But especially before the pandemic (which has changed things as I mentioned) online car buying was really a niche as most people still want to sit in, and drive the car before buying it.  And even though companies like Carvana have some really innovative processes, it didn't seem like something that most consumers found interesting.  Though, again, the pandemic has changed how both consumers and dealers are operating. 
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 21, 2020, 04:19:34 PM
That's not what I was saying at all.  If dealerships are made obsolete, than RIP dealership model.  But especially before the pandemic (which has changed things as I mentioned) online car buying was really a niche as most people still want to sit in, and drive the car before buying it.  And even though companies like Carvana have some really innovative processes, it didn't seem like something that most consumers found interesting.  Though, again, the pandemic has changed how both consumers and dealers are operating.

The problem is that 99% of online car "buying" is just a front end to old fashioned dealerships. It is just fancy new advertising for the same old experience.

Now, I will say that there have been some improvements to the process....like no haggle pricing and being able to compare prices across many more dealers. But you still have to have the sucky buying experience of going into a dealer, sitting around for five hours while some guy tries to upsell you on financing, a service plan, and an extended warranty you don't need.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 21, 2020, 04:24:32 PM
We should have never invented cars in the first place. Think of all the stage coach drivers and blacksmiths that were thrown out of work.

And the train engineers!

Interesting side story: My grandpa was a streetcar conductor in Milwaukee, and when the city converted from streetcars to buses, he finished his career as a bus driver.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 21, 2020, 04:28:14 PM
The problem is that 99% of online car "buying" is just a front end to old fashioned dealerships. It is just fancy new advertising for the same old experience.

Now, I will say that there have been some improvements to the process....like no haggle pricing and being able to compare prices across many more dealers. But you still have to have the sucky buying experience of going into a dealer, sitting around for five hours while some guy tries to upsell you on financing, a service plan, and an extended warranty you don't need.
They are starting to do a lot of this stuff online too.  A very recent development.

And I'm not sure no haggle pricing is always a benefit.  As noted in this thread, places like Carmax, are no haggle, and they normally sell for higher prices than other outlets.  No haggle is only a benefit if you are uncomfortable negotiating.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 21, 2020, 04:29:02 PM

And I'm not sure no haggle pricing is always a benefit.  As noted in this thread, places like Carmax, are no haggle, and they normally sell for higher prices than other outlets.  No haggle is only a benefit if you are uncomfortable negotiating.

I agree. The concept is an improvement, but they are rarely priced competitively.

It is not that I am uncomfortable haggling, it is just that the dog and pony show of the sales guy having to go ask the manager, and as a buyer being willing to walk out before they call you back with a better price, gets old. We all have better ways to spend our time.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jesmu84 on August 21, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
I happen to believe dealerships are outdated. And that belief has nothing to do with any experience at a dealership. In fact, the 3 times I've purchased, I've been very happy with my customer service.

I also don't think dealerships should be forced out of existence.

But if a company wants to sell direct, they should be allowed to.

And I don't think it can be argued that dealerships add cost the car buying experience. Otherwise, they couldn't exist financially.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on August 21, 2020, 09:56:50 PM
When we wanted to buy a 2007 Prius back then, they were still a very much in demand car, and they routinely sold for over list. We decided to use Costco's car-buying service. You go through Costco, fill out the form saying what you want, they set you up with a dealer that has agreed to a price, and you get the car for that. We got the Prius for $200 under list, which was very good back then (we wouldn't have been interested except there was a $2,600 federal hybrid tax credit back then).

We haven't used Costco since, but I would definitely do it if I had my heart set on a very popular model that dealers weren't discounting. For example, I've heard that the Kia Telluride is like that now.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: warriorchick on August 22, 2020, 07:53:36 AM



And I don't think it can be argued that dealerships add cost the car buying experience. Otherwise, they couldn't exist financially.

What are you talking about?  They exist because there is no other option when you want to buy a new car.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jesmu84 on August 22, 2020, 10:01:37 AM
What are you talking about?  They exist because there is no other option when you want to buy a new car.

In my ideal, you could by direct from the manufacturer or go to a dealership.

But also, dealerships have to make money on their transactions, otherwise they wouldn't be financially viable. So they must, somehow, add money to the transaction that otherwise wouldn't be there if sold directly from manufacturer.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on August 22, 2020, 11:45:35 AM
In my ideal, you could by direct from the manufacturer or go to a dealership.

But also, dealerships have to make money on their transactions, otherwise they wouldn't be financially viable. So they must, somehow, add money to the transaction that otherwise wouldn't be there if sold directly from manufacturer.

Yep.

As I tell my wife when we are in the middle of negotiations and the salesman stands up to get the business manager: "They won't let us buy this car if they don't make money on it. If they let us get up and walk out, we know we're below that money-making price." That gives us knowledge to resume negotiations either at that dealer or with the next one.

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 22, 2020, 01:09:44 PM
Yep.

As I tell my wife when we are in the middle of negotiations and the salesman stands up to get the business manager: "They won't let us buy this car if they don't make money on it. If they let us get up and walk out, we know we're below that money-making price." That gives us knowledge to resume negotiations either at that dealer or with the next one.

That isn't necessarily true.  Dealers sell cars at an initial loss quite frequently.  Typically they make their money by hitting goals set by the manufacturer and getting bonuses for hitting those numbers.  So one way or another they make money on it, but it isn't necessarily off the customer.

And of course dealerships have to make money to be viable.  You could say the same thing about literally any sales channel.  Not exactly rocket science.  But if manufacturers sold direct to customers there would be added costs in that model too.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on August 22, 2020, 01:18:08 PM
That isn't necessarily true.  Dealers sell cars at an initial loss quite frequently.  Typically they make their money by hitting goals set by the manufacturer and getting bonuses for hitting those numbers.  So one way or another they make money on it, but it isn't necessarily off the customer.

And of course dealerships have to make money to be viable.  You could say the same thing about literally any sales channel.  Not exactly rocket science.  But if manufacturers sold direct to customers there would be added costs in that model too.

Thanks for that info, buck.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on August 22, 2020, 02:47:49 PM
When we wanted to buy a 2007 Prius back then, they were still a very much in demand car, and they routinely sold for over list. We decided to use Costco's car-buying service. You go through Costco, fill out the form saying what you want, they set you up with a dealer that has agreed to a price, and you get the car for that. We got the Prius for $200 under list, which was very good back then (we wouldn't have been interested except there was a $2,600 federal hybrid tax credit back then).

We haven't used Costco since, but I would definitely do it if I had my heart set on a very popular model that dealers weren't discounting. For example, I've heard that the Kia Telluride is like that now.

Stupid Prius.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/161374154265-0-1/s-l1000.jpg)

(https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1/700/0/uploads/posts/2016/05/db2ea1e743a4482c27527c5479e5f14b.jpg)

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-12-2015/dkjObW.gif)
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 22, 2020, 03:56:53 PM

That isn't necessarily true.  Dealers sell cars at an initial loss quite frequently.  Typically they make their money by hitting goals set by the manufacturer and getting bonuses for hitting those numbers.  So one way or another they make money on it, but it isn't necessarily off the customer.



This is why I find it amusing when manufacturers advertise a given vehicle as “the number one selling [midsize/SUV/pickup] in America.“ After all, the number one selling vehicle is simply going to be the one that is manufactured in the highest numbers. Eventually it will sell, whether at MSRP or some reduced rate, but the manufacturer is not going to be left holding on sold cars at the end of the day.

I understand that sound business practices would require matching manufacturing to anticipated demand. But as we know, auto manufacturers don’t always follow the most sound business practices…
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 22, 2020, 05:10:55 PM

This is why I find it amusing when manufacturers advertise a given vehicle as “the number one selling [midsize/SUV/pickup] in America.“ After all, the number one selling vehicle is simply going to be the one that is manufactured in the highest numbers. Eventually it will sell, whether at MSRP or some reduced rate, but the manufacturer is not going to be left holding on sold cars at the end of the day.

I understand that sound business practices would require matching manufacturing to anticipated demand. But as we know, auto manufacturers don’t always follow the most sound business practices…

Uh, no.  This ain't the USSR, kin.  Supply and demand applies to cars too.

Civics, F150s and Camrys sell because they are good value for the money.  Pontiac coul have made a million Azteks, them suckers wouldnt sell regardless.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on August 22, 2020, 05:28:31 PM
Azteks were ahead of their time.   And a perfect example of GM design by committee.    The original concept was beautiful.   The Pontiac cladding was hideous and putting it on a minivan platform was dumb.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 22, 2020, 06:08:46 PM
Uh, no.  This ain't the USSR, kin.  Supply and demand applies to cars too.

Civics, F150s and Camrys sell because they are good value for the money.  Pontiac coul have made a million Azteks, them suckers wouldnt sell regardless.

I didn’t say there wasn’t some relationship. But I remember the days when Ford would heavily discount the Taurus in order to get rid of supply while neither Toyota nor Honda had to discount their Camrys or Accords to clear the lots. Yeah - it does happen.

And what does a company making a questionable business decision have to do with the USSR?
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 22, 2020, 06:18:16 PM
Azteks were ahead of their time.   And a perfect example of GM design by committee.    The original concept was beautiful.   The Pontiac cladding was hideous and putting it on a minivan platform was dumb.

I shamefully admit I owned an Aztek.  We badly needed a new car with 2 young kids.  A mechanic friend told the wife and I it had a very reliable GM engine used on other automobiles.  He rarely saw issues.  We bought fully loaded dirt cheap.  Never once had an issue with it and was the roomiest car I ever owned. 
We traded it in with 98,000 miles right after I got a new job for a 2-yr old 2006 Ford Explorer which I still have.  My kids love driving the Ford and we from the safety aspect love them driving.  They got rear-ended coming out if school.  There was small puncture in the plastic on the bumper that we got fixed only because the other partiy's insurance was paying.  The other car was practically totalled. 
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on August 22, 2020, 06:23:11 PM
I shamefully admit I owned an Aztek.  We badly needed a new car with 2 young kids.  A mechanic friend told the wife and I it had a very reliable GM engine used on other automobiles.  He rarely saw issues.  We bought fully loaded dirt cheap.  Never once had an issue with it and was the roomiest car I ever owned. 
We traded it in with 98,000 miles right after I got a new job for a 2-yr old 2006 Ford Explorer which I still have.  My kids love driving the Ford and we from the safety aspect love them driving.  They got rear-ended coming out if school.  There was small puncture in the plastic on the bumper that we got fixed only because the other partiy's insurance was paying.  The other car was practically totalled.

On a trip to Hawaii years ago, the rental car we got was an Aztek. My wife and I had only made fun of them, so we were amused that's what we ended up. "Should we ask for something else?" I asked her. "Nah, it might be fun," she said. It ended up being A-OK to drive, and was so ugly that it almost was cool. Almost.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: WI inferiority Complexes on August 22, 2020, 07:49:56 PM
I sold a used Rendezvous, (basically Buick version of the Aztek), last week. Still a nice vehicle.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on August 22, 2020, 07:58:46 PM
Car makers are now building non-butt-ugly Azteks by the bushel.     Versatile, roomy semi-utes.    That can go anywhere and do anything.  Practically an Outback.  Ahead if its time.

But, being a turn of the millennium GM product, it was put in the wrong platform.   They mistook plastic cladding for style.   The higher ups refused to even allow criticism from anyone working on the car.

Basically, today's Chevy Blazer is what they wanted the Aztek to be.    But GM back then had such disastrous management that they completely fd up a concept that would ultimately make billions
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 24, 2020, 11:25:28 AM
That isn't necessarily true.  Dealers sell cars at an initial loss quite frequently.  Typically they make their money by hitting goals set by the manufacturer and getting bonuses for hitting those numbers.  So one way or another they make money on it, but it isn't necessarily off the customer.

LOL, and how do you think the manufacturer makes up for those payoffs to dealerships?

They raise MSRP. Which drives costs up. Whatever way you slice it, dealers add to cost.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 24, 2020, 11:34:16 AM
LOL, and how do you think the manufacturer makes up for those payoffs to dealerships?

They raise MSRP. Which drives costs up. Whatever way you slice it, dealers add to cost.

This isn't how pricing works. 

However, I can't argue with your conclusion.  Dealer adds cost - Infrastructure, Inventory, People & Profit.  The question is is there a more efficient path to the market?  People want to test drive and ask questions.  Can the OEM do this more efficiently?  I don't know.  Frequently today dealer inventory is thin, particularly for foreign cars, so its a local place to do a test drive, understand the car better and agree on price/place your order.  I wouldn't have bought the car without driving it, so at a minimum OEM's would have to have local 'trial centers'.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: MU82 on August 24, 2020, 11:39:17 AM
This isn't how pricing works. 

However, I can't argue with your conclusion.  Dealer adds cost - Infrastructure, Inventory, People & Profit.  The question is is there a more efficient path to the market?  People want to test drive and ask questions.  Can the OEM do this more efficiently?  I don't know.  Frequently today dealer inventory is thin, particularly for foreign cars, so its a local place to do a test drive, understand the car better and agree on price/place your order.  I wouldn't have bought the car without driving it, so at a minimum OEM's would have to have local 'trial centers'.

I went to a car show (the one in Charlotte) last year for the first time in at least a quarter century. It was very useful. I am thinking that I'll be buying a new car in 2021, and it was nice to be able to sit inside dozens and dozens of vehicles without having to go to a bazillion dealerships. I could ask questions if I wanted, but I was not approached by salespeople. Way better than browsing on the interwebs, and I learned a lot.

Obviously, you also are right about wanting/needing to test drive.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 24, 2020, 11:40:22 AM
This isn't how pricing works. 

However, I can't argue with your conclusion.  Dealer adds cost - Infrastructure, Inventory, People & Profit.  The question is is there a more efficient path to the market?  People want to test drive and ask questions.  Can the OEM do this more efficiently?  I don't know.  Frequently today dealer inventory is thin, particularly for foreign cars, so its a local place to do a test drive, understand the car better and agree on price/place your order.  I wouldn't have bought the car without driving it, so at a minimum OEM's would have to have local 'trial centers'.

It is a legitimate point, but one that I think could be easily solved.

Manufacturer show rooms and trial centers. Owned by the manufacturer, not a dealer who needs to make a profit. Cars available to sit in and drive around a test track. I'm pretty sure this is the Tesla model, where they are allowed to do it.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 24, 2020, 11:53:42 AM
It is a legitimate point, but one that I think could be easily solved.

Manufacturer show rooms and trial centers. Owned by the manufacturer, not a dealer who needs to make a profit. Cars available to sit in and drive around a test track. I'm pretty sure this is the Tesla model, where they are allowed to do it.

Any added cost though demands a profit.  The OEM show room will need to at least need to earn back the Outlay + the cost of that capital.  If it is zero they mfg will likely just stay with the current system. 

Now if they can do it more efficiently, then maybe they do it and capture some of the dealer profit (and give some back to the buyer)

Again I don’t know the answer, but it’s not necessarily a boon to the car buyer, unless it is greatly cheaper.  You really need to strip out why it’s more efficient (less dealers, less inventory or lower profit requirements are most likely). 
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: WI inferiority Complexes on August 24, 2020, 01:22:33 PM
It is a legitimate point, but one that I think could be easily solved.

Manufacturer show rooms and trial centers. Owned by the manufacturer, not a dealer who needs to make a profit. Cars available to sit in and drive around a test track. I'm pretty sure this is the Tesla model, where they are allowed to do it.

I like the idea of show rooms and trial centers.  There are only a few things I would add.

1.) A car is a big purchase, so I'm not sure I would be comfortable just driving on a track.  How about being able to take it on the streets I drive everyday?  Maybe even borrow the vehicle for a few hours, make sure it fits in the garage and show it to my family, (my wife hates going to trial centers)?

2.) After borrowing the vehicle for a little bit, I may want to buy this exact vehicle right now.  I think these trial centers should allow me to purchase the car today.

3.) But, I already have a car that I need to get rid of.  It would be cool if these trial centers accepted my old car, and used the equity to lower the price of my new car. 

4.) I can't afford to write a check for the entirety of my new car, so if the trial center could contact a bank, or maybe several banks, and give me financing options, I'd appreciate it.  Maybe the same guy at the trial center can price out extended warranties.

5.) Maybe attach these trial centers to service, parts, and body shop departments.  People seem to like stuff like that.

Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 24, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I like the idea of show rooms and trial centers.  There are only a few things I would add.

1.) A car is a big purchase, so I'm not sure I would be comfortable just driving on a track.  How about being able to take it on the streets I drive everyday?  Maybe even borrow the vehicle for a few hours, make sure it fits in the garage and show it to my family, (my wife hates going to trial centers)?

2.) After borrowing the vehicle for a little bit, I may want to buy this exact vehicle right now.  I think these trial centers should allow me to purchase the car today.

3.) But, I already have a car that I need to get rid of.  It would be cool if these trial centers accepted my old car, and used the equity to lower the price of my new car. 

4.) I can't afford to write a check for the entirety of my new car, so if the trial center could contact a bank, or maybe several banks, and give me financing options, I'd appreciate it.  Maybe the same guy at the trial center can price out extended warranties.

5.) Maybe attach these trial centers to service, parts, and body shop departments.  People seem to like stuff like that.

Literally none of those things apply to me, or many other people.

I pay cash for cars. But If I was going to finance, I'd do it through my credit union.

I don't mind waiting a bit for the right vehicle, as long as it is not in the dealership waiting room. I'll wait a few weeks to have it delivered. 

I'd rather sell my car on the private market, where I will actually get a fair price for it.

Extended warranties are not worth it.

Service centers at dealerships are a rip off. Only good for warranty service. I prefer a trusted independent mechanic.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: dgies9156 on August 24, 2020, 02:32:51 PM
I like the idea of show rooms and trial centers.  There are only a few things I would add.

1.) A car is a big purchase, so I'm not sure I would be comfortable just driving on a track.  How about being able to take it on the streets I drive everyday?  Maybe even borrow the vehicle for a few hours, make sure it fits in the garage and show it to my family, (my wife hates going to trial centers)?

2.) After borrowing the vehicle for a little bit, I may want to buy this exact vehicle right now.  I think these trial centers should allow me to purchase the car today.

3.) But, I already have a car that I need to get rid of.  It would be cool if these trial centers accepted my old car, and used the equity to lower the price of my new car. 

4.) I can't afford to write a check for the entirety of my new car, so if the trial center could contact a bank, or maybe several banks, and give me financing options, I'd appreciate it.  Maybe the same guy at the trial center can price out extended warranties.

5.) Maybe attach these trial centers to service, parts, and body shop departments.  People seem to like stuff like that.

Sounds to me an awful lot like a dealership.

Look, I have had car dealers I love and car dealers I couldn't stand. I've recounted a few stories in here but the conclusion I draw is that a car dealer should know the ins and outs of what he or she is selling. Most do.

A car dealer is active in the communities they serve. They're competitive and they fight like heck for business.

They're actually pretty good folks. They're sales folks and their goal is to give you a good deal on a good car so you'll come back.

I'm not sure I'd get excited at GM selling directly. They already have enough control over franchises.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: buckchuckler on August 24, 2020, 02:33:20 PM
LOL, and how do you think the manufacturer makes up for those payoffs to dealerships?

They raise MSRP. Which drives costs up. Whatever way you slice it, dealers add to cost.

Yeah.  So?  I never implied otherwise.  You are LOLing are your own reading comprehension skills.  I was speaking to certain individual circumstances.  Like I said, obviously dealers have to make money to be viable.  This is the same thing for every sales channel. 
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: Coleman on August 24, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
Sounds to me an awful lot like a dealership.

That was his point. Those are things dealers assume people want, but most actually don't.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: jesmu84 on August 24, 2020, 02:56:01 PM
Tesla also has a 7 day return policy for any reason.

There's your "extended test drive." Another reason to not need a dealership model.
Title: Re: Age of your vehicle hits record in USA
Post by: tower912 on August 24, 2020, 03:15:48 PM
I am team dealership.