Age of your vehicle hits record in USA

[dgies9156]

You were in the South, right?

One of my female friends went to a dealership in Nashville and she was fully prepared to purchase a car.  The salesperson saw her wedding ring and told her that he would not sell her a car unless her husband was with her.

That happened with my Mom at a Pontiac dealer in Nashville years ago. He would not sell her a car, though she had cash, without my Dad’s permission. So my Mom had the salesman call my Dad at work.

My very angry Mom said to go ahead. The salesman called and my Dad really growled at the salesman and said, what the hell are you bothering me with this crap for. She is an adult and capable of making decisions. He then hung up and told him there are other dealers nearby.

[warriorchick]

I would, yeah, obviously there can be exceptions.  But especially if you were a t the dealer on like a Saturday, when they were busy, a 5 hr experience isn't outside the norm. 

I'm not saying they didn't do that to you.  Maybe they did because of some vendetta.  But on the whole, the dealership wants you in and out to be able to have another customer.

This was a used car that they had just acquired, and we got a much better price than they intended to sell it for.  My guess is that they were hoping we would get disgusted and walk out so that they could sell it to someone else.

[GooooMarquette]

NM

Wrong thread.

[Coleman]

I would, yeah, obviously there can be exceptions.  But especially if you were a t the dealer on like a Saturday, when they were busy, a 5 hr experience isn't outside the norm. 

I'm not saying they didn't do that to you.  Maybe they did because of some vendetta.  But on the whole, the dealership wants you in and out to be able to have another customer.

Even if it wasn't intentional, there's something seriously wrong with a business model where it takes five hours to complete a cash transaction.

[jesmu84]

So the question is, does the dealer add anything to the customer to justify their profit.  Also why is this mandated and not a decision for the manufacturer like other categories.

No.

Make the manufacturers compete with each other for pricing, quality, etc.

Eliminate the middle men that have no use.

It made sense before computers/internet. Now it's useless. Car dealerships add zero value to the transaction.

[JWags85]

If anyone can get their hands on a log-in for Mannheim or other auto auctions, that’s the golden ticket.  We had an employee years back that had a wholesale license cause he had a background in automotive work and still found cars s a side hustle.  He used to help us at the auction.

 But even though he moved on, the log in he set up for us still works.  So you can see the inventory and what similar cars went for in previous auctions.  We found a nearby used car dealer, offered him a few hundred bucks, and we get him a list of targets and prices.

All the cars are 2-3 years old, coming off lease, you’re bidding against similar dealers. We’ve gotten crazy value over the years. My favorite was a used Jetta I had in HS. We got it for around $9K from the auction. Drove it for 2.5-3 years.

Parked it on Wells overnight while visiting a friend who lived in McCormick.  Woke up and walked to my car to see Wells blocked off between 16th and 17th. Told the police I was parked basically across from Real Chili and they let me through. Few cars away and I see my car’s front tire on the curb. Strange... Get closer and see a smoking Nissan Murano and bashed in the front end.  Driver ran a red light, broadsided a church van so hard it blew all the windows out, and then came careening into my car. Changed a flat and then drove it home seemingly ok but banged up. Turns out it was totaled when we took it in, tons of internal damage.

Long story short, insurance replacement value...$9850. 10% more than we paid 3 years prior. Loved it

[MU82]

Nice.

We moved to Chicago in 1994 and lived on the North Side near the Lincoln/Addison intersection. There was a small lot on the southwest corner that had a used car dealer on it, maybe 20 cars. The prizes: His and hers Yugos.

We often would take walks past that intersection and always joked that we should buy them.

Then, one day, the dealership was gone, replaced eventually by a small park and condo building.

When we visited Chicago last week, we drove by there and immediately said, "That's where the Yugos were!"

[dgies9156]

Even if it wasn't intentional, there's something seriously wrong with a business model where it takes five hours to complete a cash transaction.

It's real simple. You have the upper hand. You tell the dealer he has a certain amount of time to complete the transaction. If he doesn't, there are competitive companies nearby.

Brother WI Inferiority, how long does it usually take for you to get a buyer in and out of a dealer? I'm guessing if someone told you up front the deal was hinging on it, you would find a way. That's great customer service and you Buick dealers are known for that.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

It's real simple. You have the upper hand. You tell the dealer he has a certain amount of time to complete the transaction. If he doesn't, there are competitive companies nearby.

Brother WI Inferiority, how long does it usually take for you to get a buyer in and out of a dealer? I'm guessing if someone told you up front the deal was hinging on it, you would find a way. That's great customer service and you Buick dealers are known for that.

If you are the only person in the dealership currently buying a car, the entire process should take less than an hour. 

If it is longer, chances are it is because of a credit issue on your end.  This is not passing judgment on anyone, but if you don't automatically qualify for 0%, Tier 1 leasing, etc, it takes some calls to get you "run up the ladder," and approved.  New car dealerships are not a "buy here/pay here" used lots, so we will always somewhat at the mercy of banks.

If you decide to buy a vehicle at 2:00 on a Saturday afternoon, I have to gently, in a customer-friendly manner, explain that this may take a while.  The customer(s) ahead of you may be "get-me-dones" who need special attention.  It is what it is.  I work crapty hours, (I'm at work now), and if I'm willing to sell you a car from 9am-9pm four days a week, I don't feel terrible that you have to wait a bit on a Saturday.  Besides,  I tended bar at Conway's for two years; I'm pretty good at holding a conversation and passing the time.

I understand the idea that the customer has the "upper hand," and I guess in theory that's true; however, isn't it the job of a good salesman, (cars, mattresses, pharmaceutical supplies, whatever), to gain that edge?  That basically what I am always trying to do.

[dgies9156]

If you are the only person in the dealership currently buying a car, the entire process should take less than an hour. 

If it is longer, chances are it is because of a credit issue on your end.  This is not passing judgment on anyone, but if you don't automatically qualify for 0%, Tier 1 leasing, etc, it takes some calls to get you "run up the ladder," and approved.  New car dealerships are not a "buy here/pay here" used lots, so we will always somewhat at the mercy of banks.

If you decide to buy a vehicle at 2:00 on a Saturday afternoon, I have to gently, in a customer-friendly manner, explain that this may take a while.  The customer(s) ahead of you may be "get-me-dones" who need special attention.  It is what it is.  I work crapty hours, (I'm at work now), and if I'm willing to sell you a car from 9am-9pm four days a week, I don't feel terrible that you have to wait a bit on a Saturday.  Besides,  I tended bar at Conway's for two years; I'm pretty good at holding a conversation and passing the time.

I understand the idea that the customer has the "upper hand," and I guess in theory that's true; however, isn't it the job of a good salesman, (cars, mattresses, pharmaceutical supplies, whatever), to gain that edge?  That basically what I am always trying to do.

You are absolutely right. I would appreciate your candor and clearly understand where you are coming from. If I lived in Milwaukee, I’d come see you!

You are so right about the financing. I went with my son to purchase a car a few months back. My credit is fantastic but his is what you would expect for a 22-year-old. We titled the car together (since the money for the car and the payments on the short term were mine) and applied for credit together. It was the first time since I was his age I’d been turned down for credit. The dealer was giving us an incentive on the price to finance (Nissan), so I just swallowed and let him do his thing. We ended up with credit but the rate was a lot, lot higher than I paid on my used BMW.

Brother WI Inferiority, I agree with you that it is all about expectations and communicating clearly to a customer!

 

[Hards_Alumni]

You are absolutely right. I would appreciate your candor and clearly understand where you are coming from. If I lived in Milwaukee, I’d come see you!

You are so right about the financing. I went with my son to purchase a car a few months back. My credit is fantastic but his is what you would expect for a 22-year-old. We titled the car together (since the money for the car and the payments on the short term were mine) and applied for credit together. It was the first time since I was his age I’d been turned down for credit. The dealer was giving us an incentive on the price to finance (Nissan), so I just swallowed and let him do his thing. We ended up with credit but the rate was a lot, lot higher than I paid on my used BMW.

Brother WI Inferiority, I agree with you that it is all about expectations and communicating clearly to a customer!

Honest question, why not go through your son's bank or credit union for the car loan?  They usually have better rates.

[buckchuckler]

Even if it wasn't intentional, there's something seriously wrong with a business model where it takes five hours to complete a cash transaction.

You're not wrong, and the fact of the matter is that if a dealership has something like 10-12 sales people, they probably have 1-2 finance people.  So no matter whether you are paying cash or not, the people in front of you in the line may not be, and they may not have good credit, and they may not have come in prepared.  And that makes things take longer, even if you are prepared and ready to go. 

[buckchuckler]

It's real simple. You have the upper hand. You tell the dealer he has a certain amount of time to complete the transaction. If he doesn't, there are competitive companies nearby.

I'd add a yeah, but here.  If you've already spent what 1-2 hours at a dealer are you really going to to to another dealer and start the entire process over again?  You may show the first dealer you mean business, but odds are you would end up using much more of your day.

[MU82]

It's real simple. You have the upper hand. You tell the dealer he has a certain amount of time to complete the transaction. If he doesn't, there are competitive companies nearby.

Brother WI Inferiority, how long does it usually take for you to get a buyer in and out of a dealer? I'm guessing if someone told you up front the deal was hinging on it, you would find a way. That's great customer service and you Buick dealers are known for that.

For some folks, they feel they already have invested a lot of time in the process, so they don't want to just give up and start over. Not saying if that is the right or wrong mindset, but it is a human reaction.

The negotiation often takes longer than I like, but that's in part because I'm just as determined to have the "upper hand" as the salesperson and/or manager are. What I don't like is that even when I buy with cash (as I like to do), I have to wait in line for the business manager, who then tries to talk me into financing, into buying the extended warranty, etc. I have come to accept it as part of the price of doing business, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

[buckchuckler]

No.

Make the manufacturers compete with each other for pricing, quality, etc.

Eliminate the middle men that have no use.

It made sense before computers/internet. Now it's useless. Car dealerships add zero value to the transaction.

Don't you think this is already happening?  Car manufacturers are hyper-competitive with each other, and consumers have really reaped the rewards.  Cars companies are making cars that are more reliable, safer, cooler and more technologically advanced than ever.  And as one competitor releases a new feature, vehicle, or strategy others follow suit as quickly as possible.  In fact, there has been some consolidation in the industry because companies are spending so much on basically parallel R&D that it doesn't always make sense, but they have to do it because the market demands it.

And you sure are throwing a lot of people to the unemployment lines pretty casually because you deem them "useless'.

[Hards_Alumni]

Don't you think this is already happening?  Car manufacturers are hyper-competitive with each other, and consumers have really reaped the rewards.  Cars companies are making cars that are more reliable, safer, cooler and more technologically advanced than ever.  And as one competitor releases a new feature, vehicle, or strategy others follow suit as quickly as possible.  In fact, there has been some consolidation in the industry because companies are spending so much on basically parallel R&D that it doesn't always make sense, but they have to do it because the market demands it.

And you sure are throwing a lot of people to the unemployment lines pretty casually because you deem them "useless'.

Can't they just find other jobs?  No one gave a solitary dook when we sent our customer support services overseas. 

When an industry is no longer viable, should we just prop it up forever?  What about the poor people who made film for cameras?  I'm sure we can think of plenty of examples.

[Fluffy Blue Monster]

I would argue that car dealerships don't provide "zero value" to the transaction from the view of the auto manufacturer.  I don't think auto manufacturers want to get into the direct sales business.  They want dealerships that give the customer a decent experience given the fact that it is likely the second or third most expensive thing they will buy in their lifetimes.

[buckchuckler]

Can't they just find other jobs?  No one gave a solitary dook when we sent our customer support services overseas. 

When an industry is no longer viable, should we just prop it up forever?  What about the poor people who made film for cameras?  I'm sure we can think of plenty of examples.

Yeah.  Totally.  But one guy, who seems fairly ignorant to the industry, saying people are useless because he had a bad dealership experience is a little different than being made  technologically obsolete.

Several people have already pointed out some of the ways dealers add value.

Right now, dealers are in the midst of a process change because the pandemic has forced remote sales onto them.  The entire auto industry is a bit slow to change, because there is alot of inertia, but their models are actually adapting as we speak.

[Fluffy Blue Monster]

Don't you think this is already happening?  Car manufacturers are hyper-competitive with each other, and consumers have really reaped the rewards.  Cars companies are making cars that are more reliable, safer, cooler and more technologically advanced than ever.  And as one competitor releases a new feature, vehicle, or strategy others follow suit as quickly as possible.  In fact, there has been some consolidation in the industry because companies are spending so much on basically parallel R&D that it doesn't always make sense, but they have to do it because the market demands it.

I agree with this completely.  I bought a new car in February.  If you would have told me even ten years ago what this car would come with, at the price I paid, I would have said you're crazy.

[Coleman]

It's real simple. You have the upper hand. You tell the dealer he has a certain amount of time to complete the transaction. If he doesn't, there are competitive companies nearby.

Right, which is why I will only ever buy private sale going forward. The dealership experience sucks.

It would be refreshing if the feedback was actually taken to heart instead of just blaming customers for crappy experience. This is how industries become disrupted. Car dealerships are not immune.

[Coleman]

I don't think auto manufacturers want to get into the direct sales business. 

Tesla wants to. The only reason they can't is because of stupid laws propped up by dealership lobbies

No one here is saying outlaw dealerships. If a manufacturer really wants to keep using an antiquated sales model, fine. But there should be freedom to try other models too.

[Fluffy Blue Monster]

Tesla wants to. The only reason they can't is because of stupid laws propped up by dealership lobbies

No one here is saying outlaw dealerships. If a manufacturer really wants to keep using an antiquated sales model, fine. But there should be freedom to try other models too.

I agree with you.  No reason those laws should exist unless it is to protect previous franchise relationships.

[warriorchick]

Can't they just find other jobs?  No one gave a solitary dook when we sent our customer support services overseas. 

When an industry is no longer viable, should we just prop it up forever?  What about the poor people who made film for cameras?  I'm sure we can think of plenty of examples.

We should have never invented cars in the first place. Think of all the stage coach drivers and blacksmiths that were thrown out of work.

[buckchuckler]

We should have never invented cars in the first place. Think of all the stage coach drivers and blacksmiths that were thrown out of work.

That's not what I was saying at all.  If dealerships are made obsolete, than RIP dealership model.  But especially before the pandemic (which has changed things as I mentioned) online car buying was really a niche as most people still want to sit in, and drive the car before buying it.  And even though companies like Carvana have some really innovative processes, it didn't seem like something that most consumers found interesting.  Though, again, the pandemic has changed how both consumers and dealers are operating. 

[Coleman]

That's not what I was saying at all.  If dealerships are made obsolete, than RIP dealership model.  But especially before the pandemic (which has changed things as I mentioned) online car buying was really a niche as most people still want to sit in, and drive the car before buying it.  And even though companies like Carvana have some really innovative processes, it didn't seem like something that most consumers found interesting.  Though, again, the pandemic has changed how both consumers and dealers are operating.

The problem is that 99% of online car "buying" is just a front end to old fashioned dealerships. It is just fancy new advertising for the same old experience.

Now, I will say that there have been some improvements to the process....like no haggle pricing and being able to compare prices across many more dealers. But you still have to have the sucky buying experience of going into a dealer, sitting around for five hours while some guy tries to upsell you on financing, a service plan, and an extended warranty you don't need.