collapse

* Resources


UDM 4

* 2018-2019 SOTG


2018-19 Season SoG Tally
Howard11
S Hauser4
John4
Anim3
Chartouny2

'17-18 * '16-17 *
'15-16'14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

Give me a break Joey by Class71
[October 15, 2019, 11:39:09 PM]


Recruiting as of 9/15/19 by 4everCrean
[October 15, 2019, 10:48:58 PM]


26 years ago today... by MU82
[October 15, 2019, 10:41:44 PM]


NM by GooooMarquette
[October 15, 2019, 09:24:22 PM]


Top 100 players named by Three Man Weave by JWags85
[October 15, 2019, 07:22:30 PM]


[Cracked Sidewalks] Seton Hall Preview by Dr. Blackheart
[October 15, 2019, 06:21:42 PM]


Open Practice video by Mr. Sand-Knit
[October 15, 2019, 12:05:13 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: St. Norbert (Exhibition)

Marquette
Marquette vs

St Norbert

Date/Time: Oct 29, 2019 - 7:00pm
TV: None
Schedule for 2019-20
24-10

Author Topic: UConn to BE Rumors  (Read 31421 times)

#UnleashCain

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2130
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #300 on: July 09, 2019, 07:47:15 PM »
Women's field hockey typically rosters about 20 players, same as ice hockey.  But the field hockey scholarship limit is 12 while ice is 18.  So probably not.

But add field hockey and women's bowling (limit of 5), and maybe that's close enough?

That said, ice hockey is a massive investment, and it's unlikely that MU would ever consider potentially cannibalizing its only revenue positive sport to - in the best case scenario - break even on hockey.

Keep in mind that the primary reason MU added LAX a few years back was because of the Big East's sport sponsorship minimums.  Adding sports at a private, urban D-I with <25% enrollment of the land grants is a very tall order without significant (and ongoing) financial backing.  And Benny's already committed his dollars to the Thunderdome (which will not be ice-capable).

I've hockey wouldn't be a huge undertaking. They already have all the needed facilities. It would now be justv getting it off the ground.

Billy Hoyle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 862
  • Billy is Cheeks, Cheeks is Billy
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #301 on: July 09, 2019, 08:40:59 PM »
I've hockey wouldn't be a huge undertaking. They already have all the needed facilities. It would now be justv getting it off the ground.

Well, other than a suitable arena.
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6054
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #302 on: July 09, 2019, 08:52:58 PM »
Well, other than a suitable arena.

Panther arena suitable for AHL but not college?
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

asdfasdf

  • Scholarship Player
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #303 on: July 09, 2019, 09:34:31 PM »
How many  varsity sports does Marquette have that aren't big east sponsored sports? I don't see Marquette adding anything that doesn't strengthen their standing in the big east.

Billy Hoyle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 862
  • Billy is Cheeks, Cheeks is Billy
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #304 on: July 09, 2019, 10:28:25 PM »
Panther arena suitable for AHL but not college?

Really? MU is going to play in UWM Panther Arena?

11K would be too big anyway. It would be the 4th largest college hockey arena in the country.  The Admirals only average just over 5400 a game. MU would be lucky to get 2K.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 10:31:15 PM by Billy Hoyle »
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

Fluffy Blue Monster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1718
  • When I'm in Holland I eat the pannenkoeken
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #305 on: July 10, 2019, 06:53:53 AM »
How many  varsity sports does Marquette have that aren't big east sponsored sports? I don't see Marquette adding anything that doesn't strengthen their standing in the big east.

What does that even mean? It’s not like they’re gonna get kicked out. MU can most certainly add a sport that is in an affiliate conference. It happens fairly regularly in D1 sports.

For instance, both Georgetown and Villanova have sports in two additional conferences besides the Big East.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 06:59:33 AM by Fluffy Blue Monster »
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

asdfasdf

  • Scholarship Player
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #306 on: July 10, 2019, 10:30:50 AM »
All of this is hypothetical so it doesn't really matter. Marquette isn't adding Hockey or Volleyball as far as I know.

To tie this back to the point of this thread - My point is that if the Big East brand is doing so well, as shown by the way they poached UConn, then it makes sense for Marquette to only add a sport that already exists in the Big East. That would help Marquette grow and become a stronger member of the Big East. Just my opinion, but adding another varsity sport so that it can play in a separate, lower tier conference doesn't do much to help Marquette.

Fluffy Blue Monster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1718
  • When I'm in Holland I eat the pannenkoeken
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #307 on: July 10, 2019, 10:36:20 AM »
I don't think any sport is really going to help Marquette much.  But the only sports that the BE sponsors that Marquette doesn't participate in are baseball and swimming and diving.  I don't think either of those will be happening any time soon.

The only thing that would be beneficial about a sport like Men's Volleyball is they have the arena to practice and play, and it gives them further inroads to recruiting markets like Chicago.  But since they would have to add a women's sport to balance that out, I just don't know what that would be.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

asdfasdf

  • Scholarship Player
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #308 on: July 10, 2019, 10:41:29 AM »
I agree. The only scenario that even makes a little sense is adding Men's Volleyball and Women's Field Hockey, but I don't see how that is attractive enough to the University to sink the money into developing those programs. Marquette already recruits Chicago pretty well (or at least they did when I was there), so getting a few more kids from Chicago doesn't seem like a priority. Besides, the Men's Club Volleyball team is mostly kids from Chicago anyway.

Benny B

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5818
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #309 on: July 10, 2019, 12:21:14 PM »
I've hockey wouldn't be a huge undertaking. They already have all the needed facilities. It would now be justv getting it off the ground.

Important distinction: MU doesn't have the facilities, they have the facilities available.  Ice time at a normal rink runs anywhere from $150/hr to upwards of $400/hour these days.  God only knows what it would cost to rent Panther Arena since the FiFo ain't doing ice, but if the last rent MU was paying at the BC was $29,000/game, my guess is Panther is going to run at least $20k.

So right off the top, practices 2 hours/day, 5 days/week + 15 games, we're looking at $350,000-400,000/year just for the minimum facility requirements.

After a novelty first year, I don't see hockey ever drawing more than the Admirals.  Hell, if the Admirals were NCAA, their 5,400 would have been good for about 10th place among all D-I schools last year.  Barring a Frozen Four appearance out of the gate, the best case MU could hope to average over the first ten years would be 2,500/gm (D-I median is ~3,000).  At an average ticket price of $20 - because let's be real here, no one is going to pay a seat donation, and you're not going to charge $50/ticket (except maybe along the glass) - you'll turn a profit on game day, but you'll barely cover the cost of the ice time.  And you're still on the hook for all the other costs that would otherwise be incurred with any other sport: scholarships, housing, transportation, road accommodations, etc. [perhaps even more, since hockey gear takes up a lot more space than a bag of volleyballs].

If the Admirals ever left town, it might be worth a feasibility study.  Otherwise, it's going to take some sort of external influence (i.e. FS1 or BE wants more sports, a "Ralph" donation, etc.) to get varsity hockey at MU.

Right now, the following "Big East" schools sponsor varsity hockey:
UCONN
Denver

Actual Big East schools that sponsor varsity hockey:
Providence


Believe me, I would be first in line for hockey season tickets if it ever happened, but despite taking more than my share of pucks to the head over 20+ years in front of the twine, I still have enough functioning brain cells to realize hockey at MU is an impossible vision.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 12:28:29 PM by Benny B »
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

The Hamberdler

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 442
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #310 on: July 10, 2019, 12:42:45 PM »
Important distinction: MU doesn't have the facilities, they have the facilities available.  Ice time at a normal rink runs anywhere from $150/hr to upwards of $400/hour these days.  God only knows what it would cost to rent Panther Arena since the FiFo ain't doing ice, but if the last rent MU was paying at the BC was $29,000/game, my guess is Panther is going to run at least $20k.

So right off the top, practices 2 hours/day, 5 days/week + 15 games, we're looking at $350,000-400,000/year just for the minimum facility requirements.

After a novelty first year, I don't see hockey ever drawing more than the Admirals.  Hell, if the Admirals were NCAA, their 5,400 would have been good for about 10th place among all D-I schools last year.  Barring a Frozen Four appearance out of the gate, the best case MU could hope to average over the first ten years would be 2,500/gm (D-I median is ~3,000).  At an average ticket price of $20 - because let's be real here, no one is going to pay a seat donation, and you're not going to charge $50/ticket (except maybe along the glass) - you'll turn a profit on game day, but you'll barely cover the cost of the ice time.  And you're still on the hook for all the other costs that would otherwise be incurred with any other sport: scholarships, housing, transportation, road accommodations, etc. [perhaps even more, since hockey gear takes up a lot more space than a bag of volleyballs].

If the Admirals ever left town, it might be worth a feasibility study.  Otherwise, it's going to take some sort of external influence (i.e. FS1 or BE wants more sports, a "Ralph" donation, etc.) to get varsity hockey at MU.

Right now, the following "Big East" schools sponsor varsity hockey:
UCONN
Denver

Actual Big East schools that sponsor varsity hockey:
Providence


Believe me, I would be first in line for hockey season tickets if it ever happened, but despite taking more than my share of pucks to the head over 20+ years in front of the twine, I still have enough functioning brain cells to realize hockey at MU is an impossible vision.

Great post. Thanks for sharing.

StillAWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2665
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #311 on: July 10, 2019, 01:08:24 PM »
After a novelty first year, I don't see hockey ever drawing more than the Admirals.  Hell, if the Admirals were NCAA, their 5,400 would have been good for about 10th place among all D-I schools last year.  Barring a Frozen Four appearance out of the gate, the best case MU could hope to average over the first ten years would be 2,500/gm (D-I median is ~3,000).

That's a great post, Benny.  Thanks for a lot of good information -- somewhat of a rarity around these parts.  I agree with pretty much everything you said.  I'd add -- and I think you'd likely agree -- that the "best case" scenario you described above is wildly optimistic.
Go Marquette!

Benny B

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5818
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #312 on: July 10, 2019, 01:50:49 PM »
I'd add -- and I think you'd likely agree -- that the "best case" scenario you described above is wildly optimistic.

The italics and underlining of 'best case' was no accident.  If I were drawing up a base case forecast, I don't think I'd be over 2,000 unless ticket prices were cheap as free.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2482
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #313 on: July 10, 2019, 02:11:27 PM »
Important distinction: MU doesn't have the facilities, they have the facilities available.  Ice time at a normal rink runs anywhere from $150/hr to upwards of $400/hour these days.  God only knows what it would cost to rent Panther Arena since the FiFo ain't doing ice, but if the last rent MU was paying at the BC was $29,000/game, my guess is Panther is going to run at least $20k.

So right off the top, practices 2 hours/day, 5 days/week + 15 games, we're looking at $350,000-400,000/year just for the minimum facility requirements.

After a novelty first year, I don't see hockey ever drawing more than the Admirals.  Hell, if the Admirals were NCAA, their 5,400 would have been good for about 10th place among all D-I schools last year.  Barring a Frozen Four appearance out of the gate, the best case MU could hope to average over the first ten years would be 2,500/gm (D-I median is ~3,000).  At an average ticket price of $20 - because let's be real here, no one is going to pay a seat donation, and you're not going to charge $50/ticket (except maybe along the glass) - you'll turn a profit on game day, but you'll barely cover the cost of the ice time.  And you're still on the hook for all the other costs that would otherwise be incurred with any other sport: scholarships, housing, transportation, road accommodations, etc. [perhaps even more, since hockey gear takes up a lot more space than a bag of volleyballs].

If the Admirals ever left town, it might be worth a feasibility study.  Otherwise, it's going to take some sort of external influence (i.e. FS1 or BE wants more sports, a "Ralph" donation, etc.) to get varsity hockey at MU.

Right now, the following "Big East" schools sponsor varsity hockey:
UCONN
Denver

Actual Big East schools that sponsor varsity hockey:
Providence


Believe me, I would be first in line for hockey season tickets if it ever happened, but despite taking more than my share of pucks to the head over 20+ years in front of the twine, I still have enough functioning brain cells to realize hockey at MU is an impossible vision.


Most arenas that college teams play in don't even hold 5,400.  Yale plays in the 3,000 seat Yale Whale and sells out every game.  UConn plays at the XL Center in Hartford and curtains off the upper half and averages 4,500 in Hockey East. 

The Equalizer

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #314 on: July 10, 2019, 03:28:17 PM »
If you took out the seats on the ends, did they build the floor plan of the Al large enough to fit a hockey rink?


Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #315 on: July 10, 2019, 03:40:50 PM »
If you took out the seats on the ends, did they build the floor plan of the Al large enough to fit a hockey rink?

If I'm not mistaken, the practice court and other training facilities are beneath the main floor court at the Al. I'd imagine those would have to be removed and built elsewhere to install an ice surface.

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2482

Benny B

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5818
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #317 on: July 10, 2019, 09:24:08 PM »
If I'm not mistaken, the practice court and other training facilities are beneath the main floor court at the Al. I'd imagine those would have to be removed and built elsewhere to install an ice surface.

Exactly.  It’s not the size, it’s the thickness that matters.

The engineers would have to chime in, but a gymnasium has to be built to a dead load of 100 psf.  Ice rinks require 250 psf.  So you’re not just relocating the basement, you’re probably filling it in (or installing a crap ton of bracing).  Also, a gym floor can deflect (flex) a little bit, without breaking.  Ice can’t.  Which is why you don’t see ice rinks built above grade very often, unless it’s over a parking garage (e.g. Pan Am in Indy) or something else with a very strong structure... which, shot in the dark here, the Al is nowhere close.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2482
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #318 on: July 11, 2019, 12:37:27 PM »
This sports center near my house has double decker ice rinks.  Although it was designed and built this way not retrofitted.

 http://www.sportscenterct.com/activities/ice-skating/

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2482
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #319 on: July 11, 2019, 04:17:28 PM »

UConn’s new players excited for Big East, but focused on task at hand — next season
https://www.nhregister.com/uconn/article/UConn-s-new-players-excited-for-Big-East-but-14064897.php

#UnleashCain

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2130
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #320 on: July 11, 2019, 04:48:37 PM »
Important distinction: MU doesn't have the facilities, they have the facilities available.  Ice time at a normal rink runs anywhere from $150/hr to upwards of $400/hour these days.  God only knows what it would cost to rent Panther Arena since the FiFo ain't doing ice, but if the last rent MU was paying at the BC was $29,000/game, my guess is Panther is going to run at least $20k.

So right off the top, practices 2 hours/day, 5 days/week + 15 games, we're looking at $350,000-400,000/year just for the minimum facility requirements.

After a novelty first year, I don't see hockey ever drawing more than the Admirals.  Hell, if the Admirals were NCAA, their 5,400 would have been good for about 10th place among all D-I schools last year.  Barring a Frozen Four appearance out of the gate, the best case MU could hope to average over the first ten years would be 2,500/gm (D-I median is ~3,000).  At an average ticket price of $20 - because let's be real here, no one is going to pay a seat donation, and you're not going to charge $50/ticket (except maybe along the glass) - you'll turn a profit on game day, but you'll barely cover the cost of the ice time.  And you're still on the hook for all the other costs that would otherwise be incurred with any other sport: scholarships, housing, transportation, road accommodations, etc. [perhaps even more, since hockey gear takes up a lot more space than a bag of volleyballs].

If the Admirals ever left town, it might be worth a feasibility study.  Otherwise, it's going to take some sort of external influence (i.e. FS1 or BE wants more sports, a "Ralph" donation, etc.) to get varsity hockey at MU.

Right now, the following "Big East" schools sponsor varsity hockey:
UCONN
Denver

Actual Big East schools that sponsor varsity hockey:
Providence


Believe me, I would be first in line for hockey season tickets if it ever happened, but despite taking more than my share of pucks to the head over 20+ years in front of the twine, I still have enough functioning brain cells to realize hockey at MU is an impossible vision.

But, none of that is necessary if Marquette is indeed wanting to put a team together. We already have a d2 hockey team that practices 4-5 times a week, and they sure as hell dont have 400k to spend on practice facilities.

I'm not sure on the exact logistics, but would it not be possible to put a rink down at Valley Fields? For a hell of a lot less then what you have put above? Even if its just for gamedays, the petit center is wide open for practice.

**why does it have to turn a profit as well. Nothing but men's basketball at Marquette turns any profit, why are we judging hockey like it should.

Fluffy Blue Monster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1718
  • When I'm in Holland I eat the pannenkoeken
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #321 on: July 11, 2019, 04:58:01 PM »
But, none of that is necessary if Marquette is indeed wanting to put a team together. We already have a d2 hockey team that practices 4-5 times a week, and they sure as hell dont have 400k to spend on practice facilities.


Marquette does not have a D2 hockey team.  They have a ACHA Club hockey team.  It isn't a varsity sport.  I have no idea where they practice and how they pay for it, but D1 varsity hockey would require a completely different level of investment, including scholarships, coaching staff, facilities, etc.

You aren't going to be very attractive to D1 quality players if you are practicing at a municipal ice rink a couple miles from campus.

Not to mention the cost of adding a women’s sport. Club athletics do not have to be balanced in such a manner.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 05:07:03 PM by Fluffy Blue Monster »
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

The Equalizer

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #322 on: July 11, 2019, 08:12:14 PM »
Exactly.  It’s not the size, it’s the thickness that matters.

The engineers would have to chime in, but a gymnasium has to be built to a dead load of 100 psf.  Ice rinks require 250 psf.  So you’re not just relocating the basement, you’re probably filling it in (or installing a crap ton of bracing).  Also, a gym floor can deflect (flex) a little bit, without breaking.  Ice can’t.  Which is why you don’t see ice rinks built above grade very often, unless it’s over a parking garage (e.g. Pan Am in Indy) or something else with a very strong structure... which, shot in the dark here, the Al is nowhere close.

According to the MU Wiki, the arena portion of the building appears to extend to the basement, with the practice court in the basement adjacent to it (not underneath):

https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/facilities/the_al_mcguire_center






#UnleashCain

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2130
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #323 on: July 11, 2019, 08:38:02 PM »

Marquette does not have a D2 hockey team.  They have a ACHA Club hockey team.  It isn't a varsity sport.  I have no idea where they practice and how they pay for it, but D1 varsity hockey would require a completely different level of investment, including scholarships, coaching staff, facilities, etc.

You aren't going to be very attractive to D1 quality players if you are practicing at a municipal ice rink a couple miles from campus.

Not to mention the cost of adding a women’s sport. Club athletics do not have to be balanced in such a manner.

So I'm going to say this once more because it's the 2nd time you've stated it.

Where did I ever once say they were a varsity sport at Marquette? I've stated that they have been successful since they upgraded to the d2 level at acha.

Scholarships do not cost the university a thing, unless you think Marquette will go bankrupt because 18 people ride free.

Other arguments such as coaching, facilities and travel also can be argued against literally every sport except men's basketball.

Fluffy Blue Monster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1718
  • When I'm in Holland I eat the pannenkoeken
Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #324 on: July 12, 2019, 07:58:06 AM »
So I'm going to say this once more because it's the 2nd time you've stated it.

Where did I ever once say they were a varsity sport at Marquette? I've stated that they have been successful since they upgraded to the d2 level at acha.

Scholarships do not cost the university a thing, unless you think Marquette will go bankrupt because 18 people ride free.

Other arguments such as coaching, facilities and travel also can be argued against literally every sport except men's basketball.


OK I'm going to unpack this gem a few steps at a time.

First, it is completely irrelevant how good a club team is.  The quality of players at the D1 varsity level will be much higher.  The expectations for facilities and the demands for training and conditioning will be well beyond what a club team has. 

Second, "scholarships do not cost the university a thing?"  Are you insane?  Those students take up places in classrooms.  They receive academic support and advising.  They take up rooms in residence halls.  They eat.  They get professional level strength training.  All for free.  Now the marginal cost of adding additional athletes is less than the list cost of a scholarship no doubt.  But the idea that scholarships would be a no cost proposition for the University is absolutely laughable. 

Finally, you are also wrong about facilities.  Marquette has facilities for a sport like men's volleyball.  They had facilities in place when they added lacrosse.  If they piggyback it onto a new rec center, they could also have facilities for swimming and diving.  (A sport that the BE offers.)  They would have to lease facilities for hockey for both practice and competition.  And that's expensive.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow