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Marquette
Marquette

Madness

Date/Time: Oct 16, 2020?
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Schedule for 2019-20
18-12

Author Topic: NCAA investigations cont.  (Read 22295 times)

Pakuni

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #250 on: August 10, 2020, 05:10:06 PM »
The whole problem here is that the media and other people think UCSB and Toledo are Alabama and Notre Dame. That the 10th man on NJIT is the same as Zion Williams.

Narrator: Nobody thinks this.

WhiteTrash

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #251 on: August 10, 2020, 05:13:04 PM »

Ah yes. “The media.”

And I really doubt “the media” believes this anyway.
You haven't heard that schools are making millions off the 'work' of guys like Zion? Get a clue. I can't believe this is even a debatable point. (Jay Bilas thinks all schools are like Duke)

If the question is to move the revues to the players,  I can understand that logic.  But it will come with a cost.

Uncle Rico

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #252 on: August 10, 2020, 05:21:42 PM »
You haven't heard that schools are making millions off the 'work' of guys like Zion? Get a clue. I can't believe this is even a debatable point. (Jay Bilas thinks all schools are like Duke)

If the question is to move the revues to the players,  I can understand that logic.  But it will come with a cost.

Would Duke have an apparel deal without guys like Zion?  Would TV networks pay millions to leagues without marketabale players? 
Fire Somebody

Pakuni

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #253 on: August 10, 2020, 05:23:43 PM »
You haven't heard that schools are making millions off the 'work' of guys like Zion? Get a clue. I can't believe this is even a debatable point. (Jay Bilas thinks all schools are like Duke)

If the question is to move the revues to the players,  I can understand that logic.  But it will come with a cost.

How does "schools are making millions off the work of guys like Zion" (an indisputable fact, btw) translate in your mind into "the 10th man on NJIT is the same as Zion'?

WhiteTrash

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #254 on: August 10, 2020, 05:40:10 PM »
How does "schools are making millions off the work of guys like Zion" (an indisputable fact, btw) translate in your mind into "the 10th man on NJIT is the same as Zion'?
Because the "experts" want to change the entire college sports landscape. They believe all schools are Alabama or Duke or Texas and making huge money that they will not give to the players.

The NCAA is not just blue bloods and Zion, 99.9% is everyday students and schools. Should we change tax laws to suit Buffet and Gates?

Galway Eagle

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #255 on: August 10, 2020, 05:41:41 PM »
Because the "experts" want to change the entire college sports landscape. They believe all schools are Alabama or Duke or Texas and making huge money that they will not give to the players.

The NCAA is not just blue bloods and Zion, 99.9% is everyday students and schools. Should we change tax laws to suit Buffet and Gates?

This really shows your age. Today it's all about Bezos and Zuckerberg.
“No justice. no peace. No racist police."

Uncle Rico

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #256 on: August 10, 2020, 05:45:39 PM »
Because the "experts" want to change the entire college sports landscape. They believe all schools are Alabama or Duke or Texas and making huge money that they will not give to the players.

The NCAA is not just blue bloods and Zion, 99.9% is everyday students and schools. Should we change tax laws to suit Buffet and Gates?

They don’t have to give it to the players.  They can allow players to earn off their names, image and likeness and get money that way
Fire Somebody

Pakuni

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #257 on: August 10, 2020, 05:50:57 PM »
Because the "experts" want to change the entire college sports landscape. They believe all schools are Alabama or Duke or Texas and making huge money that they will not give to the players.

Once again, nobody serious believes this.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #258 on: August 10, 2020, 06:25:47 PM »
Because the "experts" want to change the entire college sports landscape. They believe all schools are Alabama or Duke or Texas and making huge money that they will not give to the players.

The NCAA is not just blue bloods and Zion, 99.9% is everyday students and schools. Should we change tax laws to suit Buffet and Gates?


Yeah no one believes this.

And we should change the rules because student athletes should have the ability to earn off this NIL.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

WhiteTrash

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #259 on: August 10, 2020, 06:57:14 PM »
This really shows your age. Today it's all about Bezos and Zuckerberg.
LOL! You're right.

WhiteTrash

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #260 on: August 10, 2020, 07:14:55 PM »
Once again, nobody serious believes this.
I hope you're right but that is the message in the media. To claim otherwise is ignorance.

Look,  I have no problem with students making money but to act like this will not have repercussions is crazy. NIL should tip the balace to MU's favor. Outright payments to players should also help MU. We just need to understand the ramifications of this.

WhiteTrash

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #261 on: August 10, 2020, 07:46:23 PM »
Would Duke have an apparel deal without guys like Zion?  Would TV networks pay millions to leagues without marketabale players?
Yes and yes. Zion didn't make Duke. Lots of players in the Duke program because of the coach and the school's commitment to basketball did. Where would Duke be without Zion?

Uncle Rico

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #262 on: August 10, 2020, 08:22:14 PM »
Yes and yes. Zion didn't make Duke. Lots of players in the Duke program because of the coach and the school's commitment to basketball did. Where would Duke be without Zion?

Yes. And all those players should have had an opportunity to earn off their name, likeness and image.  Coach K agrees
Fire Somebody

WhiteTrash

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #263 on: August 10, 2020, 08:54:23 PM »
Yes. And all those players should have had an opportunity to earn off their name, likeness and image.  Coach K agrees
And Duke would be the same without Zion.

The point is that revenue to players comes with consequences. Right or wrong. People need to get their head out the sand.

4everDawson

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #264 on: August 10, 2020, 09:42:05 PM »
And Duke would be the same without Zion.

The point is that revenue to players comes with consequences. Right or wrong. People need to get their head out the sand.

Who ever said there wouldn’t be consequences?  Coaching salaries will take a hit, non-revenue sports will take a hit, fundamental unfairness will take a hit ...
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

WhiteTrash

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #265 on: August 10, 2020, 10:42:08 PM »
Who ever said there wouldn’t be consequences?  Coaching salaries will take a hit, non-revenue sports will take a hit, fundamental unfairness will take a hit ...
People don't talk about the consequences,  that's the problem.  They only focus on the 1%.   What's fair for men's basketball and football has an effect on women's sports. As a father of girls,  I  think about these things.

But, hey colleges are making millions so who cares.

MU82

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #266 on: August 11, 2020, 06:31:59 AM »
People don't talk about the consequences,  that's the problem.  They only focus on the 1%.   What's fair for men's basketball and football has an effect on women's sports. As a father of girls,  I  think about these things.

But, hey colleges are making millions so who cares.

The irony is that you said "People don't talk about the consequences" in response to a Scooper who specifically talked about the consequences. And if you looked at more than headlines from articles appearing on the evil "media," you'd see that consequences are routinely discussed.

Otherwise, you still aren't getting that what the evil "media" and most others, are talking about are athletes benefiting from their own names, images and likenesses, not receiving salaries. You might not believe there is a difference, but there is.

I am far too lazy to look it up, but there was a study recently that said many (if not most) of the "top value" college athletes in terms of expected NIL $$$$ would be female gymnasts, volleyball players, etc.

As a father of girls, you should be thrilled about that.
I'll be right eventually.

WhiteTrash

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #267 on: August 11, 2020, 07:45:23 AM »
The irony is that you said "People don't talk about the consequences" in response to a Scooper who specifically talked about the consequences. And if you looked at more than headlines from articles appearing on the evil "media," you'd see that consequences are routinely discussed.

Otherwise, you still aren't getting that what the evil "media" and most others, are talking about are athletes benefiting from their own names, images and likenesses, not receiving salaries. You might not believe there is a difference, but there is.

I am far too lazy to look it up, but there was a study recently that said many (if not most) of the "top value" college athletes in terms of expected NIL $$$$ would be female gymnasts, volleyball players, etc.

As a father of girls, you should be thrilled about that.
Fair enough. Dawson did state the consequences but my statement was about the general sentiment coming from the media. And for the record , I've never referred the the mediia as 'evil'.

As I've stated before, NIL should be a good thing for a school like MU. This will favor larger schools with a strong athletic departments. 

brewcity77

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #268 on: August 11, 2020, 09:30:40 AM »
People don't talk about the consequences,  that's the problem.  They only focus on the 1%.   What's fair for men's basketball and football has an effect on women's sports. As a father of girls,  I  think about these things.

But, hey colleges are making millions so who cares.

I think you miss the point that many colleges actually are making millions. Marquette is making millions. That doesn't mean it's all profit, but the coaching staff collectively makes more than $2M/year. The rent at the Fiserv, the renovation of the locker rooms, the new weight room, those things are not free.

Just because the schools also have expenses doesn't mean the millions aren't coming in. I would guess every high major is pulling in 7 figures in revenue, especially when you factor TV deals. Yes, much of that also goes out to grow the brands, pay the staffs, and keep up in the college sports arms race, but the money is there, the millions are being made. Any assertion otherwise is simply not true.

cheebs09

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #269 on: August 11, 2020, 09:38:49 AM »
I think you miss the point that many colleges actually are making millions. Marquette is making millions. That doesn't mean it's all profit, but the coaching staff collectively makes more than $2M/year. The rent at the Fiserv, the renovation of the locker rooms, the new weight room, those things are not free.

Just because the schools also have expenses doesn't mean the millions aren't coming in. I would guess every high major is pulling in 7 figures in revenue, especially when you factor TV deals. Yes, much of that also goes out to grow the brands, pay the staffs, and keep up in the college sports arms race, but the money is there, the millions are being made. Any assertion otherwise is simply not true.

That’s a good point. There’s been a lot of sportswriters using comments about a cancellation meaning missing out on $80-$120 Million as a gotcha to pay players. Don’t get me wrong, they should be compensated for NIL in my opinion, but people are treating that number as profit. Where I think it’s just revenue. However, that doesn’t make as good of a headline or hot take.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #270 on: August 11, 2020, 09:42:17 AM »
That’s a good point. There’s been a lot of sportswriters using comments about a cancellation meaning missing out on $80-$120 Million as a gotcha to pay players. Don’t get me wrong, they should be compensated for NIL in my opinion, but people are treating that number as profit. Where I think it’s just revenue. However, that doesn’t make as good of a headline or hot take.


I actually don't think people are treating that number as profit.  They are saying that since athletics are responsible for so much revenue, the players should have compensation than just a scholarship.

I realize there isn't profit, but if you look around at the facilities, coaches salaries, administration, etc., you can see why.  Everyone gets to partake in the party except the players at some of these places.  They have to go to class, stay out of trouble, play games during a pandemic....and get a scholarship for it.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Shooter McGavin

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #271 on: August 11, 2020, 09:51:17 AM »
I think this has been discussed before but “millions” sounds good but that is today’s  cost of doing business.  In the 80s that would have been less than 5 million for the top .01 percent of athletic departments and hundreds of thousands for the rest of the schools (these days less than 20 regular students paying tuition would equal a profitable athletic department in the 80s)

It’s all about profits and losses.  Don’t be fooled by “millions of dollars”.

WhiteTrash

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #272 on: August 11, 2020, 10:46:47 AM »
I think you miss the point that many colleges actually are making millions. Marquette is making millions. That doesn't mean it's all profit, but the coaching staff collectively makes more than $2M/year. The rent at the Fiserv, the renovation of the locker rooms, the new weight room, those things are not free.

Just because the schools also have expenses doesn't mean the millions aren't coming in. I would guess every high major is pulling in 7 figures in revenue, especially when you factor TV deals. Yes, much of that also goes out to grow the brands, pay the staffs, and keep up in the college sports arms race, but the money is there, the millions are being made. Any assertion otherwise is simply not true.
I 100% agree.

Lennys Tap

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Re: NCAA investigations cont.
« Reply #273 on: August 11, 2020, 01:24:48 PM »

I actually don't think people are treating that number as profit.  They are saying that since athletics are responsible for so much revenue, the players should have compensation than just a scholarship.

I realize there isn't profit, but if you look around at the facilities, coaches salaries, administration, etc., you can see why.  Everyone gets to partake in the party except the players at some of these places.  They have to go to class, stay out of trouble, play games during a pandemic....and get a scholarship for it.

A scholarship (and all that goes with it) is a “payment”. Is it enough of a payment? I don’t know, my gut says no - but I do know that asking the coaches and administrators to share some of their dough with the players will be met with resistance from (guess who?) the coaches and administrators.

 

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