Enrollment

[Disco Hippie]

So now that it's a few weeks past the May 1st deadline, has anyone heard anything about the number of deposits for the class of 2023?  Hopefully they fared well and met their goals again this year.  I think I recall reading that last year was a record freshman class so hopefully this year was comparable.  It's always interesting to see where they netted out as well as the geographic trends but haven't seen anything yet so perhaps they're still sorting everything out?

[MU82]

Hausers transferred. That means nobody wants to go to a loser school like Marquette.

My sources say enrollment will be zero.

[#UnleashSean]

I concur with 82. Since the acceptance rate is now 200% coupled with the hausers leaving mu is now a dump.

[Cheeks]

So now that it's a few weeks past the May 1st deadline, has anyone heard anything about the number of deposits for the class of 2023?  Hopefully they fared well and met their goals again this year.  I think I recall reading that last year was a record freshman class so hopefully this year was comparable.  It's always interesting to see where they netted out as well as the geographic trends but haven't seen anything yet so perhaps they're still sorting everything out?

I'm curious if MU will use this new "adversity" score the college board is offering to some schools. 

[warriorchick]

I'm curious if MU will use this new "adversity" score the college board is offering to some schools.

Not if Disco Hippie has his way.

[forgetful]

I'm curious if MU will use this new "adversity" score the college board is offering to some schools.

The "adversity" score name tag is a loaded name. It does disservice to what the score accomplishes. I encourage this read.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/college-board-ceo-coleman-no-adversity-score-changes-sat-scores

[warriorchick]

I don't know about this, especially if you get extra credit for going to an. "at risk" high school.

Our school district has a high school whose enrollment is primarily Hispanic and African American. A high percentage of kids qualify for the free lunch {and breakfast) program. It is also the home of the district's gifted program, which our kids were a part of. If I am understanding the methodology of this, they would have gotten preferential treatment despite being white upper-middle class kids with a stable home environment.

[Cheeks]

The "adversity" score name tag is a loaded name. It does disservice to what the score accomplishes. I encourage this read.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/college-board-ceo-coleman-no-adversity-score-changes-sat-scores

I listened to the interview live in my car.  I get the intent, at the same time it is usually stuff like this that also has unintended consequences which they will have to fix again.  Schools are absolutely going to use this to justify acceptance in the name of other agendas going on.  Whether those agendas are good, bad or neither others will have to decide.

[Cheeks]

I don't know about this, especially if you get extra credit for going to an. "at risk" high school.

Our school district has a high school whose enrollment is primarily Hispanic and African American. A high percentage of kids qualify for the free lunch {and breakfast) program. It is also the home of the district's gifted program, which our kids were a part of. If I am understanding the methodology of this, they would have gotten preferential treatment despite being white upper-middle class kids with a stable home environment.

Correct and it was one of the questions brought up to Coleman as people start to game 5e system, which of course they will. 

[forgetful]

I don't know about this, especially if you get extra credit for going to an. "at risk" high school.

Our school district has a high school whose enrollment is primarily Hispanic and African American. A high percentage of kids qualify for the free lunch {and breakfast) program. It is also the home of the district's gifted program, which our kids were a part of. If I am understanding the methodology of this, they would have gotten preferential treatment despite being white upper-middle class kids with a stable home environment.

As I understand this system. In the case you are describing, they would not have gotten any beneficial treatment.

The system is in place to help remedy an inherent bias. I know of students whose parents drop $1-2K per month on tutors. Tutors that largely get the student straight A's (in many cases doing the work for them). They have personal coaches that teach them how to beat the ACT/SAT. There grades and scores are a poor reflection of their actual abilities.

These are the students that usually flunk entry level classes or squeak by with C's, while their parents continue to drop $1-2k a month on tutors, and then call up the deans saying the teachers suck, because their straight-A student struggled.

Universities are sick of many of these students, but the current test scores/grades are their best metric to evaluate everyone. They would rather have ones that grinder their way through life, but on test scores, maybe didn't fair so well. These scores give the Universities an opportunity to better evaluate students. It is not an "excuse to justify acceptance," as Chicos opines, it is a mechanism to get the best and hardest working students who will have the most success at the University level.

[warriorchick]

As I understand this system. In the case you are describing, they would not have gotten any beneficial treatment.

The system is in place to help remedy an inherent bias. I know of students whose parents drop $1-2K per month on tutors. Tutors that largely get the student straight A's (in many cases doing the work for them). They have personal coaches that teach them how to beat the ACT/SAT. There grades and scores are a poor reflection of their actual abilities.

These are the students that usually flunk entry level classes or squeak by with C's, while their parents continue to drop $1-2k a month on tutors, and then call up the deans saying the teachers suck, because their straight-A student struggled.

Universities are sick of many of these students, but the current test scores/grades are their best metric to evaluate everyone. They would rather have ones that grinder their way through life, but on test scores, maybe didn't fair so well. These scores give the Universities an opportunity to better evaluate students. It is not an "excuse to justify acceptance," as Chicos opines, it is a mechanism to get the best and hardest working students who will have the most success at the University level.

How does any of this refute my statement that my kids may have gotten an advantage by attending an" at risk" school. They had no tutors. They didn't even take any ACT or SAT prep classes.

[forgetful]

How does any of this refute my statement that my kids may have gotten an advantage by attending an" at risk" school. They had no tutors. They didn't even take any ACT or SAT prep classes.

Sorry, I put two thoughts/statements into the same post. Much of it more directed at some of Chico's comments. My apologies.

The first sentence was in response to your statement. As I understand the scoring system, your kids would get a very small advantage. But, the advantage is consistent with the goals of the score. Part of that goal is that students who grow up in more diverse schools (economically, life situations, etc.), are more successful in college, because they are more socially and self aware. So the score benefit for your kids is consistent with the purpose, even thought they may not be disadvantaged themselves.

No scoring system is perfect. This is simply another metric in a very complicated admissions algorithm.

I think most would be shocked to see how complicated admissions planning is, and how sophisticated the process.

[Cheeks]

Please go on about my statement and why it was wrong.

[Cheeks]

It has good intentions, it's implementation is not.  The fact that the student does not get to see this added score is a problem right from the start, but pretty easy to see why that won't be shared.  I give this a few years before the lawsuits start flying.  An article on why it has the potential to hurt everyone.


https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/the-new-sat-adversity-score-misses-the-point/


Inside Higher Ed has an interesting article as well on the problems of this approach.

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/views/2019/05/20/numerous-questions-point-flaws-new-adversity-score-sat-opinion

[forgetful]

It has good intentions, it's implementation is not.  The fact that the student does not get to see this added score is a problem right from the start, but pretty easy to see why that won't be shared.  I give this a few years before the lawsuits start flying.  An article on why it has the potential to hurt everyone.


https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/the-new-sat-adversity-score-misses-the-point/


Inside Higher Ed has an interesting article as well on the problems of this approach.

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/views/2019/05/20/numerous-questions-point-flaws-new-adversity-score-sat-opinion

The only thing interesting about the Higher Ed article is that it is an opinion piece written by a "private" tutor, who specializes in teaching rich affluent kids how to beat the exam. So the person critical of it, is the person who has made his living taking advantage of the system the score is trying to rectify.

That should tell you a lot.

[Cheeks]

The only thing interesting about the Higher Ed article is that it is an opinion piece written by a "private" tutor, who specializes in teaching rich affluent kids how to beat the exam. So the person critical of it, is the person who has made his living taking advantage of the system the score is trying to rectify.

That should tell you a lot.

Actually, you left some things out and put your own stuff in without knowing.  Sure seems like he has done more than you portrayed.  Furthermore, some great leaps on your part with nothing to back it up.

Ben Paris is a private tutor and learning designer with more than 25 years of experience in test preparation and educational assessment. He has designed test-preparation courses, trained hundreds of teachers and personally taught thousands of students how to succeed on standardized tests

Where does it say affluent?  He only guides rich kids? Hmm....please show data to support this claim. How much does he charge for you to know that only rich affluent kids can beat the exam? What about the teachers he teaches...is he only teaching the RICH TEACHERS, whomever those may be?   You've taken a great leap there.  Yes, he has worked for Kaplan and others in his past, but they also have programs for the less fortunate to afford their services.  Furthermore, you can read his responses to the article itself as he explains how this hurts everyone.

[The Sultan]

His tutoring services cost around $70 per hour. If you don't think that his customer base is primarily affluent, I don't know what to tell you.

That being said, he's not wrong about this. But a better idea would be to get rid of standardized tests completely. Or at least deemphasize them. They're trash.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I know it does not include my daughter and it does include my niece.

[Disco Hippie]

Wow,  I didn't intend to start a big debate here.  Was just curious if anyone has heard anything about the size of this fall's incoming class since last year was a record and it would be great if they can build on that momentum.   Additionally, since Marquette does not have as large an endowment as some of its peers and is very tuition dependent, a class of 1925 instead of 2000 may seem like a small difference but has a large impact on the budget from what I understand so I was just curious.

[Cheeks]

His tutoring services cost around $70 per hour. If you don't think that his customer base is primarily affluent, I don't know what to tell you.

That being said, he's not wrong about this. But a better idea would be to get rid of standardized tests completely. Or at least deemphasize them. They're trash.

I'm sure it is mostly people with means, but that wasn't what was said.  What was said is rich kids, I'm just shocked the word white somehow escaped the charge, but maybe next time.  Point is, he has also tutored disadvantaged kids of lower economic status, and a very small bit of research about him proves that out.

Sorry, tests are needed to discern the 3.7 from podunk high school vs the 3.3 from brutally hard high school, among other things.  Doesn't need to be the end all be all, but a barometer is good especially with grade inflation and other games that go on.

[The Sultan]

I'm sure it is mostly people with means, but that wasn't what was said.  What was said is rich kids, I'm just shocked the word white somehow escaped the charge, but maybe next time.  Point is, he has also tutored disadvantaged kids of lower economic status, and a very small bit of research about him proves that out.

Sorry, tests are needed to discern the 3.7 from podunk high school vs the 3.3 from brutally hard high school, among other things.  Doesn't need to be the end all be all, but a barometer is good especially with grade inflation and other games that go on.

Not really. They aren't a dependable predictor of college success. High school GPA, weighted by the school they attended and the course of study they took, is by far a more dependable predictor. Standardized tests have become "optional" for many schools because the schools don't trust the results.

This includes schools like Chicago, Creighton and San Francisco BTW.

[The Sultan]

Wow,  I didn't intend to start a big debate here.  Was just curious if anyone has heard anything about the size of this fall's incoming class since last year was a record and it would be great if they can build on that momentum.   Additionally, since Marquette does not have as large an endowment as some of its peers and is very tuition dependent, a class of 1925 instead of 2000 may seem like a small difference but has a large impact on the budget from what I understand so I was just curious.

My understanding is that it is on target.

[Cheeks]

Not really. They aren't a dependable predictor of college success. High school GPA, weighted by the school they attended and the course of study they took, is by far a more dependable predictor. Standardized tests have become "optional" for many schools because the schools don't trust the results.

This includes schools like Chicago, Creighton and San Francisco BTW.

Dependable...define that.  Studies have shown that higher test scores do correlate to higher grades in college.  Not overwhelming, but there nonetheless.  In certain fields, the differences are much greater, especially in STEM fields.

[The Sultan]

Dependable...define that.  Studies have shown that higher test scores do correlate to higher grades in college.  Not overwhelming, but there nonetheless.  In certain fields, the differences are much greater, especially in STEM fields.

The correlation with collegiate success is higher with the factors I indicated than with standardized tests. That's why schools are making them optional.

[Cheeks]

Schools are making them optional for reasons of diversity.  We have administrators here in the UC system that admitted that several years ago and it but them as a result.  Now the new mantra is what you are stating.