Best States For Retirement

[Sir Lawrence]

Brother JWags figured it out. I am in Vero Beach.

Is the Ocean Grill still operating/standing?  I honeymooned in Vero in 1981.  Recall the Ocean Grill being a really nice place, and operated by the owner of Jake's here in Sir Lawrence Land.  Jake Replogle.  Believe it or not, he was the food manager at Marquette in the 50's. 

[dgies9156]

Is the Ocean Grill still operating/standing?  I honeymooned in Vero in 1981.  Recall the Ocean Grill being a really nice place, and operated by the owner of Jake's here in Sir Lawrence Land.  Jake Replogle.  Believe it or not, he was the food manager at Marquette in the 50's.

Yes, it is still here. My daughter and her boyfriend took my wife and I there while they were in town in March. It's nice but crowded -- very crowded. The food is good and the service prompt.

Ocean Grill is very good but there are better in town. The re-opened Citrus Grill is spectacular (with a price tag to match). Their veranda overlooks the Atlantic Ocean, is outside and is one of the best romantic spots in the City, especially after the lights go out at 9:00 p.m., to protect sea turtles. The locals all like Bobby's, which is a steak and seafood place kinda reminiscent of a Wisconsin Supper Club that forgot to put out the relish tray.

OK gang, if I sound like the VB Chamber of Commerce, I apologize. But the place is great and we stay here until late May and head back to Chicago for the summer and fall. Brother Sir Lawrence, when you coming back?

[mu_hilltopper]

[MU82]

Brother JWags figured it out. I am in Vero Beach.

We bought a home on the tail end of the last recession and have owned here for five years. Vero is one of the nicest communities on the east coast of Florida. We have several significant nature preserves here and an unbelievably good set of beaches. Wabasso Beach is practically out my front door (actually about 1/4 of a mile away as I noted before).

The Indian River County Jungle Trail is in my backyard. We've had "problems" with river otters rolling through our front yard not to mention land crab migration that ended up in my hallway in November (that was fun because none of knew what it was). The good news about being on a barrier island is no alligators -- they hate salt water and the Indian River is brackish. We have dolphins and manatees in the Indian River, which also is kinda cool to watch. And, we have owls nesting in the window sills on my home.

All in all, I'd recommend Vero to anyone looking!

P.S. -- When it was -30 in Chicago in late January, it was in the mid 70s to low 80s here. People locally were complaining about how it was too warm!

Sounds great.

Next Feb or so, get the guest bedroom ready for Mrs. 82 and me!

[Lennys Tap]

Sounds great.

Next Feb or so, get the guest bedroom ready for Mrs. 82 and me!

Come to Naples - I liked southeastern Florida, had been there many times. One visit to southwestern Florida and I was hooked. Bought a place, sold the house in Chicago, moved lock, stock and barrel. Hot in the summer, yes, but Naples had NEVER recorded a 100 degree temp (I remember many in Chicago). We travel a lot in the summer. I'm feeling a beer/meat summit here next winter.

[MU82]

Come to Naples - I liked southeastern Florida, had been there many times. One visit to southwestern Florida and I was hooked. Bought a place, sold the house in Chicago, moved lock, stock and barrel. Hot in the summer, yes, but Naples had NEVER recorded a 100 degree temp (I remember many in Chicago). We travel a lot in the summer. I'm feeling a beer/meat summit here next winter.

I do like your part of the country. We have gone many times to Marco Island, Sanibel and Captiva. Also have relatives in Sarasota up the coast some. Met some friends for dinner in Naples once but have never stayed there. If I could shake free, I'd love to do a beer summit and hack up a golf course or two!

I also remember many hot days in Chicago. Not all that long after we moved there, I want to say 1995 or so, it was an infamously hot period in the city's history. Many people (especially the elderly and infirm) died because of the heat, several consecutive 100+ days.

[Lennys Tap]

I do like your part of the country. We have gone many times to Marco Island, Sanibel and Captiva. Also have relatives in Sarasota up the coast some. Met some friends for dinner in Naples once but have never stayed there. If I could shake free, I'd love to do a beer summit and hack up a golf course or two!

I also remember many hot days in Chicago. Not all that long after we moved there, I want to say 1995 or so, it was an infamously hot period in the city's history. Many people (especially the elderly and infirm) died because of the heat, several consecutive 100+ days.

We live on a golf course, Mike - I have a hard and fast rule for visitors - first round is on me.

[MU82]

We live on a golf course, Mike - I have a hard and fast rule for visitors - first round is on me.

I have a related rule: I accept the first round being on somebody else - ha!

[4everwarriors]

Guys, I'd still take Florida. Have a home 1/4 mile from the Atlantic Ocean on a barrier island, Tropical back-yard and pool. No state income taxes, property taxes are less than half of what they are in Illinois.  Cleveland Clinic just acquired our local hospital, so health care will be excellent (it is mediocre now).

Only two-high rises in the entire county but a very strong restaurant scene, arts community is incredible and performing arts is very good.

Oh, and our vote for President matters, whoever you vote for! Unlike Illinois.

We're an hour from Palm Beach and two hours from Miami in case there isn't enough here. The Mets train a half hour away and the Cardinals, Marlins, Astros and Nats are an hour away. For what it's worth, Sandy Koufax lives in the next subdivision over and Ron Peranowski, he of Dodger pitching coach fame, is the resident "Norm" at my favorite local bar.

How da broads lookin', hey?

[dgies9156]

How da broads lookin', hey?

Old, like the rest of Florida.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

How da broads lookin', hey?

Besides having the clap, not too saggy.

[dgies9156]

Brother Hilltoppers, really? Just because we live south of the Ohio River doesn’t mean we are racists. A bit bizarre I’ll grant you but Florida has worked hard to be inviting for all. We truly have. The only things we discriminate against are gators (because we wrestle and eat them) and environmentalists, because they get in the way of using carload after carload of pesticides and fertilizers to make things grow in the Everglades and somehow manage to scream about a development or two every now and then.

Even the environmentalists are getting better acceptance, primarily because agricultural runoff in summer has created green slime around the southern extreme of the Treasure Coast (Jupiter to Stuart and Port St. Lucie).

As to your other points, Big Grocery is almost as ubiquitous as alligators. Big Grocery is everywhere down here, kinda like Jewel in Chicago or Pick n Save in Milwaukee. The best Publix in town is the one that hasn’t been built yet, or at least that’s Big Grocery’s theory.

Old people are an occupational hazard on our two-lane roads but on our major highways, we have three lanes — the Green Lane (right, for people who think the speed limit is indeed a limit), the Bubba Lane (the middle lane for people who drive up to 20 miles and hour over) and the NASCAR lane (the left lane, for the majority of Floridians who believe the speed limit is, at best, a minimum speed in heavy traffic). God help anyone who gets in the NASCAR lane and drives the speed limit!

Our birds actually are rather interesting. At least the ones that weren’t hunted 100 years ago for feathers for ladies’ hats. Perhaps even 10 of the millions of birds in the state are indigenous species to Florida.

Finally, as to the soul sapping heat, we’ve been down in July a few times. Yes, it’s hot. Real hot. But is it anymore toasty than Chicago in July, or DC?

[JWags85]

Brother Hilltoppers, really? Just because we live south of the Ohio River doesn’t mean we are racists. A bit bizarre I’ll grant you but Florida has worked hard to be inviting for all. We truly have. The only things we discriminate against are gators (because we wrestle and eat them) and environmentalists, because they get in the way of using carload after carload of pesticides and fertilizers to make things grow in the Everglades and somehow manage to scream about a development or two every now and then.

Even the environmentalists are getting better acceptance, primarily because agricultural runoff in summer has created green slime around the southern extreme of the Treasure Coast (Jupiter to Stuart and Port St. Lucie).

As to your other points, Big Grocery is almost as ubiquitous as alligators. Big Grocery is everywhere down here, kinda like Jewel in Chicago or Pick n Save in Milwaukee. The best Publix in town is the one that hasn’t been built yet, or at least that’s Big Grocery’s theory.

Old people are an occupational hazard on our two-lane roads but on our major highways, we have three lanes — the Green Lane (right, for people who think the speed limit is indeed a limit), the Bubba Lane (the middle lane for people who drive up to 20 miles and hour over) and the NASCAR lane (the left lane, for the majority of Floridians who believe the speed limit is, at best, a minimum speed in heavy traffic). God help anyone who gets in the NASCAR lane and drives the speed limit!

Our birds actually are rather interesting. At least the ones that weren’t hunted 100 years ago for feathers for ladies’ hats. Perhaps even 10 of the millions of birds in the state are indigenous species to Florida.

Finally, as to the soul sapping heat, we’ve been down in July a few times. Yes, it’s hot. Real hot. But is it anymore toasty than Chicago in July, or DC?

Don't worry.  One thing I've found from a lifetime of living in 4 diff states in the Midwest.  People from the Midwest that don't have the means, opportunity, or ambition to move South or West find endless ways to disparage every attractive Southern destination from Florida, to Texas, to Tennessee, to Arizona.  Racism, heat, "bad schools", etc... All seemingly used as excuses for why they are fine staying in the Midwest, ignoring population growth trends as well as movement of business and industry.

And before other defenders jump in, that category of people I mention rarely overlaps with those that love the Midwest for a number of quality reasons.  They usually moan about weather, or crime, or how the Midwest is perceived on the coasts or down South, but make some lame excuse for why they won't leave while ragging on everything else.

Not taking a shot at Hiltopper specifically, he was making a joke.  But its emblematic of an obnoxious mentality.  Also LOL at pointing out Southern racism when aggressive segregation is as core to the Midwest identity as a lack of a Spring.

[Coleman]

Don't worry.  One thing I've found from a lifetime of living in 4 diff states in the Midwest.  People from the Midwest that don't have the means, opportunity, or ambition to move South or West find endless ways to disparage every attractive Southern destination from Florida, to Texas, to Tennessee, to Arizona.  Racism, heat, "bad schools", etc... All seemingly used as excuses for why they are fine staying in the Midwest, ignoring population growth trends as well as movement of business and industry.

And before other defenders jump in, that category of people I mention rarely overlaps with those that love the Midwest for a number of quality reasons.  They usually moan about weather, or crime, or how the Midwest is perceived on the coasts or down South, but make some lame excuse for why they won't leave while ragging on everything else.

Not taking a shot at Hiltopper specifically, he was making a joke.  But its emblematic of an obnoxious mentality.  Also LOL at pointing out Southern racism when aggressive segregation is as core to the Midwest identity as a lack of a Spring.

The Midwest has lots of racism. No doubt about it. But it is a softer implicit racism than a lot of the blatant stuff in the south.

Obviously, certain parts of the South are changing as more people move there (Atlanta, Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, etc.). But there are still backwater racist areas all over Mississippi, Alabama, and rural areas. Let's not deny reality.

[JWags85]

The Midwest has lots of racism. No doubt about it. But it is a softer implicit racism than a lot of the blatant stuff in the south.

Obviously, certain parts of the South are changing as more people move there (Atlanta, Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, etc.). But there are still backwater racist areas all over Mississippi, Alabama, and rural areas. Let's not deny reality.

Zero disagreement from me.  Parts of the South are breathtakingly bad.  I just find it amusing when people in the Midwest turn up their nose at racism in the South like they are so beyond that when hardened constructs are at play outside their front door.

[Lennys Tap]

Zero disagreement from me.  Parts of the South are breathtakingly bad.  I just find it amusing when people in the Midwest turn up their nose at racism in the South like they are so beyond that when hardened constructs are at play outside their front door.

I think Chicago is rated the most segregated city in the U.S. Milwaukee is bad, too.

[warriorchick]

You have to admit that playing the Florida Man game is fun.

You Google "Florida Man" plus your birth date and month and share the first news headline that pops up.

Mine is  "Florida Man Shot in Buttocks Over Political Argument on Facebook".

Glow's is:  "Florida man tells cops he didn't drink while driving, only at stop signs".

[Coleman]

I think Chicago is rated the most segregated city in the U.S. Milwaukee is bad, too.

No doubt. They are definitely two of the worst.

[warriorchick]

No doubt. They are definitely two of the worst.

The level of segregation isn't necessarily a direct equivalent of the level of racism.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The level of segregation isn't necessarily a direct equivalent of the level of racism.

Racism, either overt or subtle, is one of the main causes of housing segregation.  There have been studies that measure parent perceptions of schools their children attend, and even when normalized for overall student performance, white parents (in general) will perceive the school to be worse the more diverse it is.  And oftentimes perceptions of a school district are why people move.

[warriorchick]

Racism, either overt or subtle, is one of the main causes of housing segregation.  There have been studies that measure parent perceptions of schools their children attend, and even when normalized for overall student performance, white parents (in general) will perceive the school to be worse the more diverse it is.  And oftentimes perceptions of a school district are why people move.

I didn't say racism is a cause of segregation.  My point is you can't determine which cities are the most racist based on how segregated they are.

And the facts you state are not the primary way racism caused segregation.  Redlining and general white flight are probably bigger factors.

[Jockey]

The Midwest has lots of racism. No doubt about it. But it is a softer implicit racism than a lot of the blatant stuff in the south.

Obviously, certain parts of the South are changing as more people move there (Atlanta, Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, etc.). But there are still backwater racist areas all over Mississippi, Alabama, and rural areas. Let's not deny reality.

Maybe "softer implicit" is the proper term, maybe not. I have talked at length with black friends about racism, north vs. south, etc. All agree racism is way more prevalent in the South - especially away from urban areas they assume everyone is racist. They understand this and need to act accordingly when down there. The racism in the north is more insidious to them because they say they don't know where they stand. They are never sure where or when they will encounter racism in the north. They know they will, but unlike the South, it hits them when they are not expecting it, which is more painful. As a matter of fact, a couple friends said it was easier dealing with in when they lived down south. IOW, racism is everywhere, it just manifests itself differently in different areas of the country.

And to a man (or woman) they all agree it has gotten worse for them in the last two years - both north and south.

[mu_hilltopper]

Brother Hilltoppers, really?

I saw it on reddit and posted it.  Seemed germain enough.

[Coleman]

The level of segregation isn't necessarily a direct equivalent of the level of racism.

There's a lot to unpack there. I'll just say I mostly (though not entirely) disagree with you.

[Coleman]

I didn't say racism is a cause of segregation.  My point is you can't determine which cities are the most racist based on how segregated they are.

And the facts you state are not the primary way racism caused segregation.  Redlining and general white flight are probably bigger factors.

Redlining and white flight are (two of many) symptoms of racism. Systemic racism, rather than the overt actions of individual racists, to be sure. But racism nonetheless.