Reality Check

[dad's couch]

I love all the anti Wojo hate. Maybe if he wasn't too busy stealing your girlfriends and kicking your dogs he would have won 6 NCCA Tournaments in the five years he was here. Here's the reality. He took over a program with 7.5 players. They were very good, solid DI players but not great. Sandy was the only recruit. Great kid but no one I know was sad to see he go. Fortunately he had a very nice career close to home and seems happy. He deserves that because he's a great kid.

So he took over a program somewhat stripped of players and talent. As all of your experts know, most recruiting happens before a kid's senior year. So Wojo really has to wait for year 3 for his recruits to start coming in. But he was able to keep the program a float and attractive to kids like Sam and Markus and we made the tournament in year 3. Last year we stepped back but we also had a horribly young team. Plus Greg was playing hurt for most of the 2nd half. Still made a nice run in the NIT to set us up for this year.

Even with the epic collapse at the end. We were still a top 20 team in terms of seeding in the tournament. No one knows for sure what happened and those who do aren't talking. But this time last week we were a consensus top 10 team heading in to next season. It was due to the program Wojo built. Now the Hausers left. Again. No one here knows why and those who do aren't talking. Maybe it's Wojo's fault. Maybe it's some players' fault. Whatever the reason. It happened.

Gets me to the point. The transfers gave the fire Wojo crowd more ammunition. But here's reality check number 1. Wojo isn't getting fired. Why? Because getting rid of him and his staff, probably paying a buyout and hiring a new coach and staff will cost close to $5 or $6 million. If the Athletic Department has that money available you don't think they could have come up with $500,000 more to keep Coach Kreiger?

Now reality check #2. Who are you going to replace him with that can do even as good of job as Wojo has done? He's 97-69 and 43 - 73 in BE play and 2 NCAA appearances. And yes I know he hasn't won a game in the tournament. To say getting rid of Wojo will make us a consistent Sweet 16 program is naive, stupid or both. Here's a list of programs that hired coaches the same year we hired Wojo, their overall record, conference record and tournament appearances/success. Figure these were our best candidates

Wojo                        97-69  43-47  2 NCAA app no wins NIT qtrs
Auburn - Bruce Pearl 100-72  40 -50 2 NCAA app FF this year out 1st round last year - Coming off show cause
BC - Jim Christian 62-100 18-72  1 NIT appearances
Cal -Cuonzo Martin (now at Mizzou and combined stats) 97-69 44-45 1 NCAA app GONE but at
Houston - Kelvin Sampson 116-52 58-32  2 NCAA apps 3 wins Coming off 5 yr show cause
Mizzou - Kim Anderson lasted 2 years 27 -68 GONE
Ore St. Wayne Tinkle 75-83 35 -55 1 NCAA  GONE
Tenn - Donnie Tyndall Fired before finishing his 1st season  GONE
Wake - Danny Manning 103-122 24 - 66 1 NCAA app (1st four) and coming off consecutive 11-20 seasons
Wash St. Ernie Kent  27-68 22-68  GONE
 
Best 2 are Sampson and Pearl. Both coming off show cause penalties and won 1 NCAA Tournament game between them heading in to this season. Might I add Auburn is also on the FBI tapes so Pearl's wins may be adjusted at a future time.

I also looked at the following season coaching hires because maybe these guys could have been candidates.

Alabama Avery Johnson 75-62  34-38 1 1 NCAA app - GONE
AZ State - Bobby Hurley 73-58 32-40 2NCAA app (1 was first 4) 0 wins
DePaul - Leitao 106-116 46-74
Florida - Mike White 89-53 43-29 3 NCAA 5 Tourn wins
IA State - Mike Prohm 83-53 35-37 3 NCAAs 3 wins
Miss St - Ben Howland 78-56 32-40 1 NCAA app
Nevada - Eric Musselman 110-34 52-17 3 NCAAs 2 wins -
St. Johns - Chris Mullin 59-73  20 -52 1 NCAA (first four)
Tenn - Rick Barnes 88-50 42-30 2 NCAA Tournaments 3 wins GONE
Texas - Shaka Smart 71-66 31-42 2 NCAA App 0 wins NIT Champs Mo Bomba on FBI wiretaps

Best hires. Probably White, Musselman or Barnes. But Musseilman was a reach only a Nevada like school would make. White inherited a great program from Donovan but has only won his first round game the past 2 years including losing as 3 seed in the round of 32. Barnes was at Texas when Buzz quit and doubt he would have been available unless he knew he was gone the following year. The best hire probably was Ark Little Rock who hired Chris Beard from D II Angelo St. Imagine what his board would have been if we hired a DII coach who lost in the 3rd round.

What I am trying to say. This program can be in much worst shape than it currently is even with the Hausers leaving. There's more BC's, Wake's and DePaul's out there than Houston or Auburn. To flippantly say fire the coach and we will be great is just stupid.

[goldeneagle91114]

Reality Check: You don't have sources, therefore you don't know what went on behind closed doors. There are a hand full of people who do have sources, and do know what took place behind closed doors. Some of the people who have sources have been kind enough to post on scoop and have said this is not on Markus, this is not on the Hauser's, this is solely on an extremely stubborn coach.

PS: we're lucky Stan is on staff, without him we wouldn't even be able to field a freaking team at this point.

Also, how many of the schools you listed above spends what Marquette spends on college basketball...reality check = NOT MANY.

[Shooter McGavin]

Agreed.

[willie warrior]

I love all the anti Wojo hate. Maybe if he wasn't too busy stealing your girlfriends and kicking your dogs he would have won 6 NCCA Tournaments in the five years he was here. Here's the reality. He took over a program with 7.5 players. They were very good, solid DI players but not great. Sandy was the only recruit. Great kid but no one I know was sad to see he go. Fortunately he had a very nice career close to home and seems happy. He deserves that because he's a great kid.

So he took over a program somewhat stripped of players and talent. As all of your experts know, most recruiting happens before a kid's senior year. So Wojo really has to wait for year 3 for his recruits to start coming in. But he was able to keep the program a float and attractive to kids like Sam and Markus and we made the tournament in year 3. Last year we stepped back but we also had a horribly young team. Plus Greg was playing hurt for most of the 2nd half. Still made a nice run in the NIT to set us up for this year.

Even with the epic collapse at the end. We were still a top 20 team in terms of seeding in the tournament. No one knows for sure what happened and those who do aren't talking. But this time last week we were a consensus top 10 team heading in to next season. It was due to the program Wojo built. Now the Hausers left. Again. No one here knows why and those who do aren't talking. Maybe it's Wojo's fault. Maybe it's some players' fault. Whatever the reason. It happened.

Gets me to the point. The transfers gave the fire Wojo crowd more ammunition. But here's reality check number 1. Wojo isn't getting fired. Why? Because getting rid of him and his staff, probably paying a buyout and hiring a new coach and staff will cost close to $5 or $6 million. If the Athletic Department has that money available you don't think they could have come up with $500,000 more to keep Coach Kreiger?

Now reality check #2. Who are you going to replace him with that can do even as good of job as Wojo has done? He's 97-69 and 43 - 73 in BE play and 2 NCAA appearances. And yes I know he hasn't won a game in the tournament. To say getting rid of Wojo will make us a consistent Sweet 16 program is naive, stupid or both. Here's a list of programs that hired coaches the same year we hired Wojo, their overall record, conference record and tournament appearances/success. Figure these were our best candidates

Wojo                        97-69  43-47  2 NCAA app no wins NIT qtrs
Auburn - Bruce Pearl 100-72  40 -50 2 NCAA app FF this year out 1st round last year - Coming off show cause
BC - Jim Christian 62-100 18-72  1 NIT appearances
Cal -Cuonzo Martin (now at Mizzou and combined stats) 97-69 44-45 1 NCAA app GONE but at
Houston - Kelvin Sampson 116-52 58-32  2 NCAA apps 3 wins Coming off 5 yr show cause
Mizzou - Kim Anderson lasted 2 years 27 -68 GONE
Ore St. Wayne Tinkle 75-83 35 -55 1 NCAA  GONE
Tenn - Donnie Tyndall Fired before finishing his 1st season  GONE
Wake - Danny Manning 103-122 24 - 66 1 NCAA app (1st four) and coming off consecutive 11-20 seasons
Wash St. Ernie Kent  27-68 22-68  GONE
 
Best 2 are Sampson and Pearl. Both coming off show cause penalties and won 1 NCAA Tournament game between them heading in to this season. Might I add Auburn is also on the FBI tapes so Pearl's wins may be adjusted at a future time.

I also looked at the following season coaching hires because maybe these guys could have been candidates.

Alabama Avery Johnson 75-62  34-38 1 1 NCAA app - GONE
AZ State - Bobby Hurley 73-58 32-40 2NCAA app (1 was first 4) 0 wins
DePaul - Leitao 106-116 46-74
Florida - Mike White 89-53 43-29 3 NCAA 5 Tourn wins
IA State - Mike Prohm 83-53 35-37 3 NCAAs 3 wins
Miss St - Ben Howland 78-56 32-40 1 NCAA app
Nevada - Eric Musselman 110-34 52-17 3 NCAAs 2 wins -
St. Johns - Chris Mullin 59-73  20 -52 1 NCAA (first four)
Tenn - Rick Barnes 88-50 42-30 2 NCAA Tournaments 3 wins GONE
Texas - Shaka Smart 71-66 31-42 2 NCAA App 0 wins NIT Champs Mo Bomba on FBI wiretaps

Best hires. Probably White, Musselman or Barnes. But Musseilman was a reach only a Nevada like school would make. White inherited a great program from Donovan but has only won his first round game the past 2 years including losing as 3 seed in the round of 32. Barnes was at Texas when Buzz quit and doubt he would have been available unless he knew he was gone the following year. The best hire probably was Ark Little Rock who hired Chris Beard from D II Angelo St. Imagine what his board would have been if we hired a DII coach who lost in the 3rd round.

What I am trying to say. This program can be in much worst shape than it currently is even with the Hausers leaving. There's more BC's, Wake's and DePaul's out there than Houston or Auburn. To flippantly say fire the coach and we will be great is just stupid.

Ah, yes. The old tried and true, "it could be a whole lot worse" excuse. This commercial was paid for by Friends of Wojo.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Reality Check: You don't have sources, therefore you don't know what went on behind closed doors. There are a hand full of people who do have sources, and do know what took place behind closed doors. Some of the people who have sources have been kind enough to post on scoop and have said this is not on Markus, this is not on the Hauser's, this is solely on an extremely stubborn coach.

PS: we're lucky Stan is on staff, without him we wouldn't even be able to field a freaking team at this point.

Also, how many of the schools you listed above spends what Marquette spends on college basketball...reality check = NOT MANY.

Are there people on this board saying this is not, at least partially, on Markus? If there are people saying that...and I don’t care who their “source” is, they’re wrong. I get blaming Wojo for loss of control, but you’re damn right it’s a Markus issue. There’s no question about it. There’s zero doubt Markus has been talked to. Why he doesn’t listen to Wojo is the issue.

[goldeneagle91114]

Are there people on this board saying this is not, at least partially, on Markus? If there are people saying that...and I don’t care who their “source” is, they’re wrong. I get blaming Wojo for loss of control, but you’re damn right it’s a Markus issue. There’s no question about it. There’s zero doubt Markus has been talked to. Why he doesn’t listen to Wojo is the issue.

Markus runs the play the coach has called. And if Markus doesn't, its on wojo to discipline him like he would any other player that wanted to play selfishly. He can do this in practice, he can not start him for a period of time. He could do lots of things that wouldn't effect the outcome of a game.

[Norm]

Are there people on this board saying this is not, at least partially, on Markus? If there are people saying that...and I don’t care who their “source” is, they’re wrong. I get blaming Wojo for loss of control, but you’re damn right it’s a Markus issue. There’s no question about it. There’s zero doubt Markus has been talked to. Why he doesn’t listen to Wojo is the issue.

But if he has been talked to and doesn't listen or continues to do his own thing, then why wasn't his playing time curtailed? Just watch how Izzo coaches Cassisus Winston. When Winston makes a mistake or gets in a funk, Izzo is not hesitant to get in his face during a time out or even sit him for stretches in games. I do not recall Wojo ever really confronting Howard during a time out or ever sitting him if he wan't in foul trouble. If Markus is tuning Wojo out, then its on Wojo to sit Markus to get his message through.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Markus runs the play the coach has called. And if Markus doesn't, its on wojo to discipline him like he would any other player that wanted to play selfishly. He can do this in practice, he can not start him for a period of time. He could do lots of things that wouldn't effect the outcome of a game.

I agree it’s Wojo’s job to coach his player. And I would absolutely stand and applaud if he sat Howard during one of his hot streaks. It’d be great. But that still doesn’t mean none of this is Howard’s fault. It absolutely is.

By the way, this is just one more thing that can hurt Howard’s already shaky draft stock.

[dgies9156]

Dumpster fire folks. Dumpster Fire

Paid for by the "I want Another Banner Next to the 1977 Banner" Committee

[🏀]

Markus runs the play the coach has called. And if Markus doesn't, its on wojo to discipline him like he would any other player that wanted to play selfishly. He can do this in practice, he can not start him for a period of time. He could do lots of things that wouldn't effect the outcome of a game.

Did Joey dunk on you last night too?

[Boozemon Barro]

I feel so fortunate to have won not one, but two NIT games last year. What a great time to be a Marquette fan. A true golden age.

[Marquette_g]

By the way, this is just one more thing that can hurt Howard’s already shaky draft stock.

If Howard gets drafted it is for the sole reason that he can make shots. Nobody is drafting Markus Howard to run their NBA offense - hero ball in college and his potential to make shots in the pros are unrelated.

[MU82]

Reality Check: You don't have sources, therefore you don't know what went on behind closed doors. There are a hand full of people who do have sources, and do know what took place behind closed doors. Some of the people who have sources have been kind enough to post on scoop and have said this is not on Markus, this is not on the Hauser's, this is solely on an extremely stubborn coach.

Much of this is reasonable. But as others have said, Markus is getting his fair share of the blame. And please don't dismiss the notion that some of those sources might be at least a little biased toward the Hausers. I'm not assessing blame here, and I'm already on record as saying the buck stops at Wojo, but that's no small fact.

[#UnleashSean]

If the Athletic Department has that money available you don't think they could have come up with $500,000 more to keep

The athletic department has that money and way more. They just aren't willing to spend it on something that loses them money. #reality check

[dad's couch]

So by sources you mean people who may be trying to spin the story their way for their benefit or to fit their agenda? So far. Sources here have said it's Wojo's fault. Markus's fault. The Hausers's parents. Each Hauser.  And even Hauser's girlfriend came up. And don't forget the VT forum had a representative flying to Gary, IN. So forgive me if I take with a grain of salt anonymous Internet forums postings.

And I don't know how much each program spends on their programs. I do know that at least 25 head coaches made more than Wojo in 2019 and several didn't make the tournament. I also know with the hiring of new coaches and extensions Wojo at best is pushed out of the top 30 of compensation. So based on your argument, I think, money should equal results. At best we can expect is Wojo should make the 2nd round.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

If Howard gets drafted it is for the sole reason that he can make shots. Nobody is drafting Markus Howard to run their NBA offense - hero ball in college and his potential to make shots in the pros are unrelated.

Nobody’s taking a chance on a 5’9” team cancer who can’t handle the ball

[Marquette_g]

Nobody’s taking a chance on a 5’9” team cancer who can’t handle the ball

They won't draft him because of his height - that is accurate

The rest of that sentence has no bearing on his NBA potential. His only value would be as a spot-up shooter.

[WhiteTrash]

You can't evaluate a coach until year 10 or maybe 15.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Nobody’s taking a chance on a 5’9” team cancer who can’t handle the ball

A team cancer?  I mean I realize he needs to reign it in a little, but holy sh*t is that an overreaction. 

[CTWarrior]

A team cancer?  I mean I realize he needs to reign it in a little, but holy sh*t is that an overreaction.

+1

[Nukem2]

A team cancer?  I mean I realize he needs to reign it in a little, but holy sh*t is that an overreaction.

Yep.  And he will have help and competition in the back court now with Greg and Koby.  Was a one man backcourt last season.  Suspect the ball will be moving much  better next season.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

A team cancer?  I mean I realize he needs to reign it in a little, but holy sh*t is that an overreaction.

Guys are leaving the program! That’s the very definition of a team cancer.

[shoothoops]

Dad’s Couch,

Here’s the thing. And, there’s no getting around this.

Buzz Williams at Marquette as head coach:  6 seasons, 5 NCAA’s, 8 NCAA wins, 2 sweet 16’s, elite 8, 2 first place league finishes. The previous coach to him made the Final Four.

So far, Wojo, 5 seasons, 2 NCAA’s, 0 NCAA wins 0 first place league finishes. 

So here we are...the expectations are that starting next season, with or without the Hauser brothers, MU Rah Rah makes deeper NCAA runs or Wojo isn’t going to last too many more seasons. It’s pretty straight forward moving forward.

[dad's couch]

Two guys. A package deal have left the program. Villanova lost two guys including their top 2018-19 recruit. Lost in the first round of the NCAA Tournament. Wonder who the cancer in that locker room is.

[dad's couch]

Two guys. A package deal have left the program. Villanova lost two guys including their top 2018-19 recruit. Lost in the first round of the NCAA Tournament. Wonder who the cancer in that locker room is.

What did Buzz inherit and what did buzz leave us with? Especially enjoyed his last recruiting class that had a kid suspended for his entire Sr. season. Maybe Wojo would have a better record if he had McNeal, James and Matthews his first year.