Reality Check

[Golden Avalanche]

Gregg Marshall.  Spare me the "Koch Brothers money, he'll never leave" spin: Marquette could have afforded him and we'd be in a much better place as a program.

Salary isn't the reason Marshall is still in Wichita.

[muguru]

It’s the guy taking 25 shots a game!

I will say this again...slowly...Carsen Edwards had a HIGHER shot rate than Markus...Some stats...

Carsen was 277/703= 19.5 SPG, 113 TO(3.1 pg), and 104 Asst(2.9 pg)

Markus= 252/600= 17.6 SPG, 134 TO(3.9 pg), 133 Asst(3.9pg)

Markus took 100 fewer shots than Carsen Edwards, almost 2 shots less per game, turned it over slightly more, had a better Asst rate, was more efficient, shot it better from 3,  and shot more FT's.

And yet...we never heard a word about players from Purdue complaining that Carsen shot it too much and it was hurting the team. Not only that, but Purdue won a conference championship, had a higher seed in the tournament, and went to an elite 8, and were THIS close to being in a final Four...all with a more ball dominant, jack happy, turnover prone, not as likely to pass Guard as Markus was...

So you know what the OBVIOUS explanation there is?? Matt painter had more control of his team then Wojo did. THAT'S the problem, NOT Markus. Matt Painter made it work...Wojo did NOT

[dad's couch]

Maybe not but at least 3.5 million reasons. And I don't know if the buyout is prohibitive. After hearing some this coaching season like Jamie Dixon's and Cluess at Iona, it may be huge.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Salary isn't the reason Marshall is still in Wichita.

It’s because he’s a dick!

[forgetful]

I will say this again...slowly...Carsen Edwards had a HIGHER shot rate than Markus...Some stats...

Carsen was 277/703= 19.5 SPG, 113 TO(3.1 pg), and 104 Asst(2.9 pg)

Markus= 252/600= 17.6 SPG, 134 TO(3.9 pg), 133 Asst(3.9pg)

Markus took 100 fewer shots than Carsen Edwards, almost 2 shots less per game, turned it over slightly more, had a better Asst rate, was more efficient, shot it better from 3,  and shot more FT's.

And yet...we never heard a word about players from Purdue complaining that Carsen shot it too much and it was hurting the team. Not only that, but Purdue won a conference championship, had a higher seed in the tournament, and went to an elite 8, and were THIS close to being in a final Four...all with a more ball dominant, jack happy, turnover prone, not as likely to pass Guard as Markus was...

So you know what the OBVIOUS explanation there is?? Matt painter had more control of his team then Wojo did. THAT'S the problem, NOT Markus. Matt Painter made it work...Wojo did NOT

You are coming to the conclusion that you want to. You are assuming the only difference is Wojo vs. Painter. The other players on the team are also important. It is possible if you give Painter the two Hauser's, and we get their top 2 other players, and the two teams/coaches simply flip outcomes.

That said. Let's say you fire Wojo, like a lot of people on here say. Those people are quick to say that it is necessary, because we cannot recruit top players if we keep Wojo, because of negative recruiting.

Like above, that analysis is looking at the problem in a vacuum where you assume Wojo is the problem, and that everyone else is completely aware that Wojo is the problem. You are looking at it from a view, clouded by your dislike of Wojo. 

The reality is, to most programs in college basketball, Wojo is a successful and highly desired up and coming coach. To them, if you fire Wojo, it says it doesn't matter if you are successful. You are not allowed to run your own program. The players run the show, and if they are not happy you will be fired. No top coaching candidate is going to walk into that situation. That is looking at it through another, and perfectly realistic, lens.

Where is the reality, likely somewhere in between. None of the people spouting off on here really know what all transpired. The person who does is the AD. He is also the person who knows that if it was all on Wojo, he doesn't have a good option, because the public image to other coaches would be that MU lets the players run the system, not the coaches.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It’s because he’s a dick!

There is some truth to this

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I've always loved this quote, and think it's a good time for it.

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

― Theodore Roosevelt

Some simple facts after this quote.  Each of the people we are hammering on (one side or the other) have spent their entire lives in the arena.  No one should really criticize them unless they are facing them in the arena.  It's Ok to ask "what were they thinking?"  I personally admire everyone and anyone willing to get into the fire and man up.  I don't question each and every move unless I'm in there with them.

Sam was my favorite player over the last couple years. I'm sad to see him go, wish him the best, and wish he could have worked it out.  I won't miss Joey.  My impression as an ex-career military leader, ex-college coach, and current senior sales manager, he pouted a lot. I chalked it up to "Freshman." Now the "pouting" I perceived takes a different look. He might be significantly better in a few years, but I think there is enough younger talent at MU to compensate. Sam needed something different. Good for him and his brother, so off they go.

Wojo takes a ton of heat on this board, but like it or not, he's here. Work with it. Our sole job is support, unless we want to get in the arena again (or for the first time).  I don't plan on being a big enough donor to make an impact in that area. Therefore I'll continue verbal support of Wojo.  And as a second note, if a player can't adjust to what the coach wants, he should go. It's the bad for the team and culture. Sam and Joey decided they didn't fit. They fell on their swords and moved on.

Lots of folks can attack at will, but I'm all in for next year, and think we'll be OK with a solid point guard, and Greg coming back.  Who knows, Ike might make an impact (He looked in great shape and health as the season progressed).  I do know the remaining players appeared to love Markus in the games, and with a true point guard he can be perhaps more effective.  I'm going to wait and see how Wojo modifies, changes, or who he is able to snap up out of the ever growing (each year as well as now) transfer pool.  Recognize what this is ... opportunity for the next man up! 

None of these guys are jerks (yet).  Hausers have their reasons, and I just hope they thought it out.  With luck, a couple of our guys will be able to face up on them in the arena, and have some fun making the regret leaving.  Wojo will continue to learn as he goes.

Marquette is a special place, and each of us should remember that those standing in our arena mostly know that.  I've said my peace ... Go Marquette - Beat Villanova, Beat Wisconsin!

We need more of this.

[tower912]

If they had both declared for the draft, the team would be in the exact same situation vis a vis next season. 

[Mutaman]

If they had both declared for the draft, the team would be in the exact same situation vis a vis next season.

really? I think the team (and Wojo) would be in a totally different situation. At least i wouldn't have this desperate feeling that something is really really wrong. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

There is some truth to this

And his wife is nuts...and oh, FBI...

[Mike Deane's Seat Belt]

Dad’s couch just wrote war and peace of wojo apology.   I wouldnt be surprised if our current roster felt just as comfortable with stan at the helm as an interim coach. 

Seems like wojo has lost respect from the players after this coup attempt from the brothers hauser.   

Lets can this loser Wojo and move on!

[real chili 83]

Sickening post. You are 100 times the cancer on Scoop than Markus is to Marquette.

People like you make me wonder why I keep coming back to Scoop. Markus, meanwhile, is the type of representative every college looks for.

This ^^^^

Everyone else, don’t feed the trolls.

[tower912]

PRN was one of the original scoopers.    His rants about Crean looked similar to this.   He was way ahead of the curve when it came to Crean.   

[Mutaman]

"Each of the people we are hammering on (one side or the other) have spent their entire lives in the arena.  No one should really criticize them unless they are facing them in the arena. 

 I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your police work there, Lou.

[Lennys Tap]

really? I think the team (and Wojo) would be in a totally different situation. At least i wouldn't have this desperate feeling that something is really really wrong.

Exactly. This isn't about a couple of guys fulfilling a dream and going pro. That indicates something's RIGHT in a program. This is the exact opposite.

The Marquette program sure doesn't feel like UVA or Duke to me right now.

[MomofMUltiples]

The Marquette program sure doesn't feel like UVA or Duke to me right now.

This program is not UVA nor Duke.  If that's what you want, I suggest you switch allegiances now.

[🏀]

PRN was one of the original scoopers.    His rants about Crean looked similar to this.   He was way ahead of the curve when it came to Crean.   

Unfortunately, this.

PRN is a dude.

[MU82]

I will say this again...slowly...Carsen Edwards had a HIGHER shot rate than Markus...Some stats...

Carsen was 277/703= 19.5 SPG, 113 TO(3.1 pg), and 104 Asst(2.9 pg)

Markus= 252/600= 17.6 SPG, 134 TO(3.9 pg), 133 Asst(3.9pg)

Markus took 100 fewer shots than Carsen Edwards, almost 2 shots less per game, turned it over slightly more, had a better Asst rate, was more efficient, shot it better from 3,  and shot more FT's.

And yet...we never heard a word about players from Purdue complaining that Carsen shot it too much and it was hurting the team. Not only that, but Purdue won a conference championship, had a higher seed in the tournament, and went to an elite 8, and were THIS close to being in a final Four...all with a more ball dominant, jack happy, turnover prone, not as likely to pass Guard as Markus was...

So you know what the OBVIOUS explanation there is?? Matt painter had more control of his team then Wojo did. THAT'S the problem, NOT Markus. Matt Painter made it work...Wojo did NOT

Interesting post.

As you know, I place most of the blame on Wojo.

Nevertheless, your post is almost an advertisement for: Edwards has better teammates than Markus did.

[Herman Cain]

Ah, yes. The old tried and true, "it could be a whole lot worse" excuse. This commercial was paid for by Friends of Wojo.

I agree with this analysis.

[Lennys Tap]

This program is not UVA nor Duke.  If that's what you want, I suggest you switch allegiances now.

Please read the post that Mutaman responded to, his post and then mine. Context matters. My point was this fiasco is NOTHING like UVA and Duke losing players early to the pros. I resent your "suggestion" about me switching allegiances. I've supported Marquette for far longer than you and will continue to as long as I'm around.

[Herman Cain]

Dad’s couch just wrote war and peace of wojo apology.   I wouldnt be surprised if our current roster felt just as comfortable with stan at the helm as an interim coach. 

Seems like wojo has lost respect from the players after this coup attempt from the brothers hauser.   

Lets can this loser Wojo and move on!

I agree with this analysis

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

We need more of this.

I agree and i truly believe, after tge intial shock, that we are truly only losing Sam for one year.  Now no doubt what a kick in the pants to lose him after being projected as a top 5 team.  However i dont think joey will be much of a loss, horrible defender and im not sure how that changes much, big time atketicism issues.  He was a pouter and a baby and really not that good, i think he got way more time than he deserved.  Got way more than Brendan or Cain n am not at all convinced he deserved it. I think it was Wojo trying keep the hauser family happy thru next year. 

[Henry Sugar]

I will say this again...slowly...Carsen Edwards had a HIGHER shot rate than Markus...Some stats...

Carsen was 277/703= 19.5 SPG, 113 TO(3.1 pg), and 104 Asst(2.9 pg)

Markus= 252/600= 17.6 SPG, 134 TO(3.9 pg), 133 Asst(3.9pg)

Markus took 100 fewer shots than Carsen Edwards, almost 2 shots less per game, turned it over slightly more, had a better Asst rate, was more efficient, shot it better from 3,  and shot more FT's.

And yet...we never heard a word about players from Purdue complaining that Carsen shot it too much and it was hurting the team. Not only that, but Purdue won a conference championship, had a higher seed in the tournament, and went to an elite 8, and were THIS close to being in a final Four...all with a more ball dominant, jack happy, turnover prone, not as likely to pass Guard as Markus was...

So you know what the OBVIOUS explanation there is?? Matt painter had more control of his team then Wojo did. THAT'S the problem, NOT Markus. Matt Painter made it work...Wojo did NOT

I already responded to you about this once. Your conclusion is wrong. Also, Edwards' shot ratio was less (34.7% vs 36.1%).

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58615.msg1124954#msg1124954

[Mutaman]

This program is not UVA nor Duke.  If that's what you want, I suggest you switch allegiances now.

At this point its not even Murray State. How about I keep my allegiance to Marquette and insist on some competence?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I agree and i truly believe, after tge intial shock, that we are truly only losing Sam for one year.  Now no doubt what a kick in the pants to lose him after being projected as a top 5 team.  However i dont think joey will be much of a loss, horrible defender and im not sure how that changes much, big time atketicism issues.  He was a pouter and a baby and really not that good, i think he got way more time than he deserved.  Got way more than Brendan or Cain n am not at all convinced he deserved it. I think it was Wojo trying keep the hauser family happy thru next year.

Honestly I think Joey was the bigger loss. Not next season but I would have loved three more years of Joey.