Way Too Early 2019/20 Pre-Season Predictions

[muguru]

Because throwing money at a problem is small time thinking. The smallest time thinking. Look at the most successful programs. They got there by consistent success built over time. Not by throwing an irresponsible amount of money at program with a potential to bankrupt the university.

Okay...You're right...do you feel better now?? is that what you wanted to hear?? I hope you are never the CEO of a business in your lifetime...because after having doing things the same way for 50+ years or whatever length of time, your companies equipment is getting older, not producing at the same level you used to, and your product isn't as appealing as it once was..I can hear you sitting at a table with shareholders when they ask "what are we going to do about this"..and you look at them and say "patience", that's the only way out of this...And one of them looks at you and says "we at this table are willing to invest the money in new technology and do whatever it takes to get this company back to the top again...and you look at them and say "no...we MUST just be patient, that's the ONLY way this will turn around". Smh

[MU82]

You're right, but the difference is...he would have shut me up quickly, if he had the same success right away at MU as he has had at Texas Tech.

We don't know if he would have had the same kind of success. He might have sucked at Marquette. I actually don't think he would have, but he might have. And it's all besides the point because he didn't have enough experience for Marquette to seriously consider him.

You would have hated the Al McGuire hire. Not only did he suck his last 2 years at Belmont Abbey, but he sucked his first two years at Marquette. You'd have been saying, "Why can't we hire a guy who wins right away?"

Oh, and Marquette is more likely to hire an atheist as its next school president than it is to pay a basketball coach an 8-figure salary. So you can throw out a hypothetical just because, but it's silly and does nothing to advance the discussion. You might as well ask, "Why don't we bring in Superman to play power forward for us?" It's no less likely, no less ridiculous.

guru, I love your passion about MU hoops, and we agree on more than you might think, but you really need to get a grip sometimes.

[Cheeks]

Okay...You're right...do you feel better now?? is that what you wanted to hear?? I hope you are never the CEO of a business in your lifetime...because after having doing things the same way for 50+ years or whatever length of time, your companies equipment is getting older, not producing at the same level you used to, and your product isn't as appealing as it once was..I can hear you sitting at a table with shareholders when they ask "what are we going to do about this"..and you look at them and say "patience", that's the only way out of this...And one of them looks at you and says "we at this table are willing to invest the money in new technology and do whatever it takes to get this company back to the top again...and you look at them and say "no...we MUST just be patient, that's the ONLY way this will turn around". Smh

SMH at that analogy.  Using depreciated equipment as the comparison.....awesome.  LOL

[muguru]

SMH at that analogy.  Using depreciated equipment as the comparison.....awesome.  LOL

The premise is exactly the same and you know it...it's absolutely spot on the same. TAMU's "patience" argument when there are other ways to try to be successful at anything...but his answer for everything will always be "patience". I wonder if his paycheck is ever late sometime and he asks his boss what the deal is, and his boss looks at him and says "patience, that's the only way you will get your paycheck", if he'd shrug his shoulders and say "ok"?? Hilarious to envision that scenario.

[Cheeks]

The premise is exactly the same and you know it...it's absolutely spot on the same. TAMU's "patience" argument when there are other ways to try to be successful at anything...but his answer for everything will always be "patience". I wonder if his paycheck is ever late sometime and he asks his boss what the deal is, and his boss looks at him and says "patience, that's the only way you will get your paycheck", if he'd shrug his shoulders and say "ok"?? Hilarious to envision that scenario.

It is in no way exactly the same...and I do know it....which is why I am laughing and shaking my damn head at the ridiculous analogy you came up with.

To use your analogy would mean MU failed to build the Al, decided not to pony up more money to play at Fiserv and instead is playing at a lesser facility.  That would have been a more appropriate comparison using your equipment analogy,  but it would have exposed your argument completely.

Wojo is a salaried employee, one that has improved on his results since he has been here.  Including best attendance this past season in years.  Including an All American playing for us, wins on the court, national rankings along with players minding their p’s and q’s. 

Try again....

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Okay...You're right...do you feel better now?? is that what you wanted to hear?? I hope you are never the CEO of a business in your lifetime...because after having doing things the same way for 50+ years or whatever length of time, your companies equipment is getting older, not producing at the same level you used to, and your product isn't as appealing as it once was..I can hear you sitting at a table with shareholders when they ask "what are we going to do about this"..and you look at them and say "patience", that's the only way out of this...And one of them looks at you and says "we at this table are willing to invest the money in new technology and do whatever it takes to get this company back to the top again...and you look at them and say "no...we MUST just be patient, that's the ONLY way this will turn around". Smh

What does this scenario have to do with Marquette basketball? We're producing better than when he took over.

[muguru]

What does this scenario have to do with Marquette basketball? We're producing better than when he took over.

One year...ONE was worse, and everyone wants to use that as the baseline for how good Wojo is doing, and completely ignoring the previous years of sweet 16, sweet 16, Elite 8 etc. Amazing how people don't even want to talk about that and use THAT in comparison to Wojo's tenure. The absolute fairest way to compare is to compare it to Crean's first 5 years at MU, and then Buzz's first five years. That's the only apples to apples comparison there is...but of course we won't use that because well...that defeats the argument, right?? 10 years from now the results could be approximately the same and TAMU will be leading the "patience, Wojo will get there refrain".

[Galway Eagle]

One year...ONE was worse, and everyone wants to use that as the baseline for how good Wojo is doing, and completely ignoring the previous years of sweet 16, sweet 16, Elite 8 etc. Amazing how people don't even want to talk about that and use THAT in comparison to Wojo's tenure. The absolute fairest way to compare is to compare it to Crean's first 5 years at MU, and then Buzz's first five years. That's the only apples to apples comparison there is...but of course we won't use that because well...that defeats the argument, right?? 10 years from now the results could be approximately the same and TAMU will be leading the "patience, Wojo will get there refrain".

Nobody wants to do the first years of Buzz because the big 3, Lazar, and Cubi were all Crean players. Using the 2011, 12 and 13 years is fair. But we were a better team last year than 2011 and maybe in 2017 as well. 12 and 13 were two of the 3 best teams we've had since we lost to Miami of ohio.

Nobody wants to do the first years of Crean because even though CUSA was a great conference in those days, its a far cry from the Big East.

They aren't exactly apples to apples comparisons.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

One year...ONE was worse, and everyone wants to use that as the baseline for how good Wojo is doing, and completely ignoring the previous years of sweet 16, sweet 16, Elite 8 etc. Amazing how people don't even want to talk about that and use THAT in comparison to Wojo's tenure. The absolute fairest way to compare is to compare it to Crean's first 5 years at MU, and then Buzz's first five years. That's the only apples to apples comparison there is...but of course we won't use that because well...that defeats the argument, right?? 10 years from now the results could be approximately the same and TAMU will be leading the "patience, Wojo will get there refrain".

What do the past years have to do with Wojo's starting point? He didn't get to bring back Vander Blue, Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, and Davante Gardner.

[bilsu]

One year...ONE was worse, and everyone wants to use that as the baseline for how good Wojo is doing, and completely ignoring the previous years of sweet 16, sweet 16, Elite 8 etc. Amazing how people don't even want to talk about that and use THAT in comparison to Wojo's tenure. The absolute fairest way to compare is to compare it to Crean's first 5 years at MU, and then Buzz's first five years. That's the only apples to apples comparison there is...but of course we won't use that because well...that defeats the argument, right?? 10 years from now the results could be approximately the same and TAMU will be leading the "patience, Wojo will get there refrain".

Buzz was very successful with junior collage all-Americans, which I believe Wojo is not allowed to recruit. Image Buzz's teams without Crowder, Butler, DJO and Buycks.

[muguru]

What do the past years have to do with Wojo's starting point? He didn't get to bring back Vander Blue, Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, and Davante Gardner.

You Wojo supporters just LOVE using what he inherited as your "crutch" to somehow justify what an incredibly amazing wonder kind of a Coach he is. It's always something...there will always be some sort of an excuse, the pedestal you all put him on is like nothing I have ever seen before. It's so extreme that it's almost like you all treat it like the program had been D2 at that time, and he quickly elevated it to respectable D1 status so quickly.

I will tell you a story...when he was first hired, I loved it from a recruiting perspective, thought he'd do very well in that area. I was skeptical of how good of a Coach he would ever be, but I was willing to give him a chance, because after all he was MU's new Head Coach, and since I love MU BB, I was "all in" with him. Then that first year something happened that "lost me" to the point that he was from a Coaching standpoint going to have to earn his way back with me. What was that "thing"?? Losing at home...to Omaha. And that was a game that he got 17...yes 17 points from Derrick Wilson(when he scores 17, which is like winning the lottery odds wise, you should NEVER lose, especially at home to a low major that had just transitioned to D1)...and they gave up 97 points and lost by 8. Will NEVER forget that, and from that point forward, it, to me, verified all the skepticism I had about him as a Coach.

Because of that, he has a ways to go to with me, to get me back to the point where I'm a full supporter of him again. From that time until now, he hasn't done enough to show me that...yet. The good thing is, he is obviously going to have more time to get me back on board, and I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about him, and he leads MU to the place(s), a vast majority of us want them to go. Here's hoping.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You Wojo supporters just LOVE using what he inherited as your "crutch" to somehow justify what an incredibly amazing wonder kind of a Coach he is. It's always something...there will always be some sort of an excuse, the pedestal you all put him on is like nothing I have ever seen before. It's so extreme that it's almost like you all treat it like the program had been D2 at that time, and he quickly elevated it to respectable D1 status so quickly.

I will tell you a story...when he was first hired, I loved it from a recruiting perspective, thought he'd do very well in that area. I was skeptical of how good of a Coach he would ever be, but I was willing to give him a chance, because after all he was MU's new Head Coach, and since I love MU BB, I was "all in" with him. Then that first year something happened that "lost me" to the point that he was from a Coaching standpoint going to have to earn his way back with me. What was that "thing"?? Losing at home...to Omaha. And that was a game that he got 17...yes 17 points from Derrick Wilson(when he scores 17, which is like winning the lottery odds wise, you should NEVER lose, especially at home to a low major that had just transitioned to D1)...and they gave up 97 points and lost by 8. Will NEVER forget that, and from that point forward, it, to me, verified all the skepticism I had about him as a Coach.

Because of that, he has a ways to go to with me, to get me back to the point where I'm a full supporter of him again. From that time until now, he hasn't done enough to show me that...yet. The good thing is, he is obviously going to have more time to get me back on board, and I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about him, and he leads MU to the place(s), a vast majority of us want them to go. Here's hoping.

I’m sure Wojo is losing sleep wondering how he’s going to get you on board. I heard it’s the only reason he agreed to the extension in the first place.

[Nukem2]

You Wojo supporters just LOVE using what he inherited as your "crutch" to somehow justify what an incredibly amazing wonder kind of a Coach he is. It's always something...there will always be some sort of an excuse, the pedestal you all put him on is like nothing I have ever seen before. It's so extreme that it's almost like you all treat it like the program had been D2 at that time, and he quickly elevated it to respectable D1 status so quickly.

I will tell you a story...when he was first hired, I loved it from a recruiting perspective, thought he'd do very well in that area. I was skeptical of how good of a Coach he would ever be, but I was willing to give him a chance, because after all he was MU's new Head Coach, and since I love MU BB, I was "all in" with him. Then that first year something happened that "lost me" to the point that he was from a Coaching standpoint going to have to earn his way back with me. What was that "thing"?? Losing at home...to Omaha. And that was a game that he got 17...yes 17 points from Derrick Wilson(when he scores 17, which is like winning the lottery odds wise, you should NEVER lose, especially at home to a low major that had just transitioned to D1)...and they gave up 97 points and lost by 8. Will NEVER forget that, and from that point forward, it, to me, verified all the skepticism I had about him as a Coach.

Because of that, he has a ways to go to with me, to get me back to the point where I'm a full supporter of him again. From that time until now, he hasn't done enough to show me that...yet. The good thing is, he is obviously going to have more time to get me back on board, and I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about him, and he leads MU to the place(s), a vast majority of us want them to go. Here's hoping.

Come on Iceman, get a grip here.

[muguru]

I’m sure Wojo is losing sleep wondering how he’s going to get you on board. I heard it’s the only reason he agreed to the extension in the first place.

See, it doesn't matter what i post or respond to on this board, SOMEONE will take a shot at it. Someone else posts this exact same thing, that isn't me, it doesn't get replied to. I guess people that support Wojo have their reasons why they do, and we are all just supposed to accept that, but I can't have reasons for NOT supporting him, and I get taken to task for it. All I was conveying is why I(me, not you, not chicos, not any one else has to share that opinion/feeling) became skeptical of Wojo. is that okay with you??

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What do the past years have to do with Wojo's starting point? He didn't get to bring back Vander Blue, Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, and Davante Gardner.

You Wojo supporters just LOVE using what he inherited as your "crutch" to somehow justify what an incredibly amazing wonder kind of a Coach he is. It's always something...there will always be some sort of an excuse, the pedestal you all put him on is like nothing I have ever seen before. It's so extreme that it's almost like you all treat it like the program had been D2 at that time, and he quickly elevated it to respectable D1 status so quickly.

I will tell you a story...when he was first hired, I loved it from a recruiting perspective, thought he'd do very well in that area. I was skeptical of how good of a Coach he would ever be, but I was willing to give him a chance, because after all he was MU's new Head Coach, and since I love MU BB, I was "all in" with him. Then that first year something happened that "lost me" to the point that he was from a Coaching standpoint going to have to earn his way back with me. What was that "thing"?? Losing at home...to Omaha. And that was a game that he got 17...yes 17 points from Derrick Wilson(when he scores 17, which is like winning the lottery odds wise, you should NEVER lose, especially at home to a low major that had just transitioned to D1)...and they gave up 97 points and lost by 8. Will NEVER forget that, and from that point forward, it, to me, verified all the skepticism I had about him as a Coach.

Because of that, he has a ways to go to with me, to get me back to the point where I'm a full supporter of him again. From that time until now, he hasn't done enough to show me that...yet. The good thing is, he is obviously going to have more time to get me back on board, and I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about him, and he leads MU to the place(s), a vast majority of us want them to go. Here's hoping.

So nothing. Thanks for clearing that up.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

See, it doesn't matter what i post or respond to on this board, SOMEONE will take a shot at it. Someone else posts this exact same thing, that isn't me, it doesn't get replied to. I guess people that support Wojo have their reasons why they do, and we are all just supposed to accept that, but I can't have reasons for NOT supporting him, and I get taken to task for it. All I was conveying is why I(me, not you, not chicos, not any one else has to share that opinion/feeling) became skeptical of Wojo. is that okay with you??

You’re easy to poke fun of because you seem to be so irrationally angry in your posts. Every one of them says essentially the same thing, but you still manage to make it a three paragraph rant.

Have a drink. Find a woman. Or a guy if that’s your thing. Take up wood working. Maybe take a month off or something. It’s just basketball.

[tower912]

Guru, I had worries about Wojo when he arrived.  Only ever in one system.  How would he adapt to being at Not-Duke?  Never been in the big chair.  I still have not seen one team either out perform or under my expectations for that specific season.  I must be getting better at predictions.   He has not yet made a team more than the sum of it's parts.   When things went bad early, he got an angry little boy look on his face that I found off-putting.  He speaks in coach speak cliches.   
  But he has won 84 games the last 4 years.   He improved the defense last year.  He has found grad transfers every year.  Chartouny wasn't good, but the others were decent.  He has developed players.  He has been the boy scout the powers wanted.  And, most importantly for me, I think he has a high ceiling.  If you got your wish and he was fired tomorrow, he would be coaching at a high major in 20-21.  He would be the guy other fanbases want. 

[muguru]

So nothing. Thanks for clearing that up.

And why do you and others always like to use that as your "fallback" with him, to justify his "success" to this point. If past years have nothing to do with Wojo's starting point, then why does his starting point have anything to do with now?? That was 6 years ago...he has had 1 and a half recruiting cycles since. At some point you have to let go of "look at what he started with". That's gone, it's irrelevant. You spew this utter nonsense about how you think big, yet here you are willingly accepting his mediocre results to this point because you're "patient". BS, absolute total crock of you know what. It's small time thinking TAMU, think bigger! Thinking big should be not wanting your alma mater following the same path as everyone else shouldn't it?? Thinking big would wanting them/expecting them to be the exception, not the norm, right?? That's thinking BIG TIME.

Tell me TAMU, 10 years from now if Wojo hasn't really moved the program forward from where it is now, are you still going to be spewing your "patience" nonsense?? I have absolutely zero doubt you will be.

[muguru]

Guru, I had worries about Wojo when he arrived.  Only ever in one system.  How would he adapt to being at Not-Duke?  Never been in the big chair.  I still have not seen one team either out perform or under my expectations for that specific season.  I must be getting better at predictions.   He has not yet made a team more than the sum of it's parts.   When things went bad early, he got an angry little boy look on his face that I found off-putting.  He speaks in coach speak cliches.   
  But he has won 84 games the last 4 years.   He improved the defense last year.  He has found grad transfers every year.  Chartouny wasn't good, but the others were decent.  He has developed players.  He has been the boy scout the powers wanted.  And, mot importantly for me, I think he has a high ceiling.  If you got your wish and he was fired tomorrow, he would be coaching at a high major in 20-21.  He would be the guy other fanbases want.

Yeah, lessor D1 programs...I'm sure a program like Missouri, or Wake Forest, or Dayton, or or Boston College or someone like that would love to have him, and understandably so, for them that would be a real coup. For MU Wojo should be the type of Coach that's considered solid, but not considered a coup.

[muguru]

You’re easy to poke fun of because you seem to be so irrationally angry in your posts. Every one of them says essentially the same thing, but you still manage to make it a three paragraph rant.

Have a drink. Find a woman. Or a guy if that’s your thing. Take up wood working. Maybe take a month off or something. It’s just basketball.

Wojo told his guys to "play angry", I was so motivated by that, I post "angry". 

[Cheeks]

One year...ONE was worse, and everyone wants to use that as the baseline for how good Wojo is doing, and completely ignoring the previous years of sweet 16, sweet 16, Elite 8 etc. Amazing how people don't even want to talk about that and use THAT in comparison to Wojo's tenure. The absolute fairest way to compare is to compare it to Crean's first 5 years at MU, and then Buzz's first five years. That's the only apples to apples comparison there is...but of course we won't use that because well...that defeats the argument, right?? 10 years from now the results could be approximately the same and TAMU will be leading the "patience, Wojo will get there refrain".

Hmm, let’s see....Crean left Buzzard a bunch of talent and that’s not what Wojo inherited.  Could that be part of it?

Does Wojo get the same latitude of types of players to bring in as result of how Buzzard’s crew blew that one?  Nope.

So what else you got since you want to make comparisons that are comparing apples to leopard spotted panties instead of other apples.

[Cheeks]

You Wojo supporters just LOVE using what he inherited as your "crutch" to somehow justify what an incredibly amazing wonder kind of a Coach he is. It's always something...there will always be some sort of an excuse, the pedestal you all put him on is like nothing I have ever seen before. It's so extreme that it's almost like you all treat it like the program had been D2 at that time, and he quickly elevated it to respectable D1 status so quickly.

I will tell you a story...when he was first hired, I loved it from a recruiting perspective, thought he'd do very well in that area. I was skeptical of how good of a Coach he would ever be, but I was willing to give him a chance, because after all he was MU's new Head Coach, and since I love MU BB, I was "all in" with him. Then that first year something happened that "lost me" to the point that he was from a Coaching standpoint going to have to earn his way back with me. What was that "thing"?? Losing at home...to Omaha. And that was a game that he got 17...yes 17 points from Derrick Wilson(when he scores 17, which is like winning the lottery odds wise, you should NEVER lose, especially at home to a low major that had just transitioned to D1)...and they gave up 97 points and lost by 8. Will NEVER forget that, and from that point forward, it, to me, verified all the skepticism I had about him as a Coach.

Because of that, he has a ways to go to with me, to get me back to the point where I'm a full supporter of him again. From that time until now, he hasn't done enough to show me that...yet. The good thing is, he is obviously going to have more time to get me back on board, and I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about him, and he leads MU to the place(s), a vast majority of us want them to go. Here's hoping.

Lol.

Yeah, we reasoned individuals who deal with facts and common sense can see what rosters each coach inherited and use that data to make an informed opinion.  How dare us. 

[PointWarrior]

Good lord, you an idiot, please stop posting.

You Wojo supporters just LOVE using what he inherited as your "crutch" to somehow justify what an incredibly amazing wonder kind of a Coach he is. It's always something...there will always be some sort of an excuse, the pedestal you all put him on is like nothing I have ever seen before. It's so extreme that it's almost like you all treat it like the program had been D2 at that time, and he quickly elevated it to respectable D1 status so quickly.

I will tell you a story...when he was first hired, I loved it from a recruiting perspective, thought he'd do very well in that area. I was skeptical of how good of a Coach he would ever be, but I was willing to give him a chance, because after all he was MU's new Head Coach, and since I love MU BB, I was "all in" with him. Then that first year something happened that "lost me" to the point that he was from a Coaching standpoint going to have to earn his way back with me. What was that "thing"?? Losing at home...to Omaha. And that was a game that he got 17...yes 17 points from Derrick Wilson(when he scores 17, which is like winning the lottery odds wise, you should NEVER lose, especially at home to a low major that had just transitioned to D1)...and they gave up 97 points and lost by 8. Will NEVER forget that, and from that point forward, it, to me, verified all the skepticism I had about him as a Coach.

Because of that, he has a ways to go to with me, to get me back to the point where I'm a full supporter of him again. From that time until now, he hasn't done enough to show me that...yet. The good thing is, he is obviously going to have more time to get me back on board, and I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about him, and he leads MU to the place(s), a vast majority of us want them to go. Here's hoping.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Wojo told his guys to "play angry", I was so motivated by that, I post "angry". 

Touché

[muguru]

Hmm, let’s see....Crean left Buzzard a bunch of talent and that’s not what Wojo inherited.  Could that be part of it?

Does Wojo get the same latitude of types of players to bring in as result of how Buzzard’s crew blew that one?  Nope.

So what else you got since you want to make comparisons that are comparing apples to leopard spotted panties instead of other apples.

That was 6 years ago...6...are you going to continue to use that as your fallback?? Not one single player that Wojo inherited still plays for MU. Not a single one. Hard to believe isn't it?? As i was told...move on. This isn't Wojo's first year anymore, he's had his own recruiting classes since...FULL recruiting classes. And yet, he hasn't won a single NCAA game(oh yeah, crapshoot, I forgot), hasn't won a conference title, a BE tourney title, nothing of consequence to this point. I know, that's on Buzz for what Wojo inherited 6 years ago. Next year will be on Buzz, and the year after, and the year after..It will always be because what Wojo inherited. I get it.