MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Tha Hound on April 07, 2019, 08:29:33 PM
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Might as well.
Number 2
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26464237/loaded-michigan-state-leads-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20
Number 4
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-sporting-news-way-too-early-top-25-for-2019-20/1oplcsov8ioxf18ydgei068fyp
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/04/08/college-basketball-2019-2020-preseason-top-25/
Number 6
https://watchstadium.com/news/preseason-top-25-jeff-goodmans-2019-20-college-basketball-rankings-04-08-2019/
Number 6
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/04/09/ncaa-basketball-rankings-early-top-25-kentucky-duke-michigan-state
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No top 100 recruits, but Elliott and McEwen will certainly add size, depth and shore up a weakness. Good health and normal progress and I think that is fairly close.
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No top 100 recruits, but Elliott and McEwen will certainly add size, depth and shore up a weakness. Good health and normal progress and I think that is fairly close.
I'd be very surprised if Torrance isn't here next year as well.
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I'd be very surprised if Torrance isn't here next year as well.
I honestly think that depends on whether Markus returns.
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I honestly think that depends on whether Markus returns.
I think it may. But on the other hand playing a role on a top 15 team, even a backup role, is probably more beneficial to his development than another year in high school.
I'm mostly just reading tea leaves. Last week his Twitter bio stated his high school and "Marquette 2020 commit."
He removed 2020 and his high school. And in an interview a month or so ago he referred to playing his last game in high school.
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Yup. We will be really, really, really good next year. Wash, rinse, repeat. There is always next year. Gives us time to thoroughly forget/spin this season's colossal meltdown.
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Next season will be truly 'report card' year for Wojo, assuming there are no critical injuries. He needs to succeed twice: once during the November signing period and then on the court both during the regular season and to a certain extent in the NCAA. By next year this time, we'll have a full body of work.
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Next season will be truly 'report card' year for Wojo, assuming there are no critical injuries. He needs to succeed twice: once during the November signing period and then on the court both during the regular season and to a certain extent in the NCAA. By next year this time, we'll have a full body of work.
Barring an extreme result in either direction, I really don't think it will be. If Howard comes back and we miss the tournament, that's a referendum moment. If we win the league & go to a Final Four, that's also a referendum moment. Otherwise, I feel like anything from 2nd-6th in league, any NCAA finish that ends the first or second weekend, we'll know little more than we do now other than Wojo can sustain what he's already created.
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Barring an extreme result in either direction, I really don't think it will be. If Howard comes back and we miss the tournament, that's a referendum moment. If we win the league & go to a Final Four, that's also a referendum moment. Otherwise, I feel like anything from 2nd-6th in league, any NCAA finish that ends the first or second weekend, we'll know little more than we do now other than Wojo can sustain what he's already created.
I'd say the lower realm of acceptable Big East finishes is closer to third vs sixth.
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Yup. We will be really, really, really good next year. Wash, rinse, repeat. There is always next year. Gives us time to thoroughly forget/spin this season's colossal meltdown.
Hey no one is asking you to move on. If you have the desire to feel miserable and sulk because that is beneficial for you or you believe it will get Wojo fired faster be our guest...you can even create (another) thread about it!
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Barring an extreme result in either direction, I really don't think it will be. If Howard comes back and we miss the tournament, that's a referendum moment. If we win the league & go to a Final Four, that's also a referendum moment. Otherwise, I feel like anything from 2nd-6th in league, any NCAA finish that ends the first or second weekend, we'll know little more than we do now other than Wojo can sustain what he's already created.
I'm not talking about a 'fire him or not scenario'. What I'm saying is that we'll have a fairly complete portrait on who and what Wojo is as a coach. 'He is who we thought he is' kind of stuff.
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I'd say the lower realm of acceptable Big East finishes is closer to third vs sixth.
I expect this will be a 6-7 bid league next year. If we get into the tournament, Wojo is probably safe. Not on great footing, but safe. It will be enough to keep him going, but not enough to silence critics.
And barring some extremely positive outlier results (Conference champs, 1/2 Seed, Final Four), it seems unlikely critics will be silenced.
It is an important year. His two most productive recruits to date will be seniors, he will have an extremely experienced team that has tasted success, & 2020 is a critical recruiting class not only because of the seniors we lose but the quality of recruits we are pursuing. If we end up 4th in the league, go to the Big East semis, get a 7-seed & win one game, and end up with a recruiting class of two 4-stars, one 3-star, and a sit-out transfer, would that change anything from where we stand right now? It wouldn't be enough to convince the Wojo supporters he was the long-term answer and wouldn't be enough to (further) convince the detractors that he needs to go now.
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I expect this will be a 6-7 bid league next year. If we get into the tournament, Wojo is probably safe. Not on great footing, but safe. It will be enough to keep him going, but not enough to silence critics.
And barring some extremely positive outlier results (Conference champs, 1/2 Seed, Final Four), it seems unlikely critics will be silenced.
It is an important year. His two most productive recruits to date will be seniors, he will have an extremely experienced team that has tasted success, & 2020 is a critical recruiting class not only because of the seniors we lose but the quality of recruits we are pursuing. If we end up 4th in the league, go to the Big East semis, get a 7-seed & win one game, and end up with a recruiting class of two 4-stars, one 3-star, and a sit-out transfer, would that change anything from where we stand right now? It wouldn't be enough to convince the Wojo supporters he was the long-term answer and wouldn't be enough to (further) convince the detractors that he needs to go now.
I think a 7 seed next year and a first round exit will have quite a few people hopping off of the Wojo-train. If the 2020 recruiting class also fails to include a top 50 player or two, even worse.
I agree the administration is still unlikely to move on in this scenario and it also represents the worst case option assuming health, etc.
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I assume Marquette makes the tournament. I also assume they do not progress beyond the second round. Finally, I assume there is not enough for critics of Wojo or supporters of Wojo to agree upon at the end of the season.
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I think a 7 seed next year and a first round exit will have quite a few people hopping off of the Wojo-train. If the 2020 recruiting class also fails to include a top 50 player or two, even worse.
I agree the administration is still unlikely to move on in this scenario and it also represents the worst case option assuming health, etc.
But the money will start to dry up a little. They'll notice that.
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I think the most likely scenario next year is top 4 finish in conference, 5-7 seed in the Tournament, and another first or second round exit. Not enough to silence Wojo’s critics, but just enough for Wojo’s supporters to say that we’re trending upward and have improved every year.
When Coaching Carousel 2020 rolls around, Wojo will continue to have zero interest from other high majors with job openings.
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I think the most likely scenario next year is top 4 finish in conference, 5-7 seed in the Tournament, and another first or second round exit. Not enough to silence Wojo’s critics, but just enough for Wojo’s supporters to say that we’re trending upward and have improved every year.
When Coaching Carousel 2020 rolls around, Wojo will continue to have zero interest from other high majors with job openings.
Define “high major.”
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I think the most likely scenario next year is top 4 finish in conference, 5-7 seed in the Tournament, and another first or second round exit. Not enough to silence Wojo’s critics, but just enough for Wojo’s supporters to say that we’re trending upward and have improved every year.
That would be an extreme disappointment and in no way would indicate an upward trend.
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Bart's Rankings for 2020:
http://barttorvik.com/trankpre.php
#11, First in the Big East
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I honestly think that depends on whether Markus returns.
Honestly, where the hell do u think Marcus is gonna go? He is no where near a pro. Prolly not even a D leaguer, how many kids leave cuz its their life long dream to play in a lower level European league. He is a poor mans Carsen Edwards n Edwards is a late second rounder.
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Define “high major.”
To rephrase or be more specific, he’ll once again have zero offers from any school that’s equal to or “better” than Marquette.
Maybe he could get the job at Oregon State, Cal, or Rutgers, but that’s not exactly a feather in his cap.
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E8 or bust!!!!
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Might as well. Here's one: http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-sporting-news-way-too-early-top-25-for-2019-20/1oplcsov8ioxf18ydgei068fyp
Interesting that Shaka's former team is listed, but his current team is nowhere to be found. One hit wonder?
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I expect this will be a 6-7 bid league next year.
Has anyone out there analyzed what the non-conference schedules are going to look like for the other 9 BE teams? Because how many bids a conference gets is largely decided before Jan 1, and scheduling is key.
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Might as well. Here's one: http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-sporting-news-way-too-early-top-25-for-2019-20/1oplcsov8ioxf18ydgei068fyp
Seton Hall is underrated.
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I doubt we will be ranked #7 to start the season
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Honestly, where the hell do u think Marcus is gonna go? He is no where near a pro. Prolly not even a D leaguer, how many kids leave cuz its their life long dream to play in a lower level European league. He is a poor mans Carsen Edwards n Edwards is a late second rounder.
Couldn't Markus make significant 6 figures in Europe? Why would he be relegated to lower level competition.
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Has anyone out there analyzed what the non-conference schedules are going to look like for the other 9 BE teams? Because how many bids a conference gets is largely decided before Jan 1, and scheduling is key.
I'm not 100% on these, I'm assuming some home-and-home returns. DePaul thus far does not have an exempt tournament. This also does not include the Gavitt Games, which will add 8 total high-major games & should be released in about a month. Here's what I assume so far:
Butler (5)
@ Baylor (Big East/Big 12)
@ Mississippi
vs Florida
Hall of Fame Classic (2 of Missouri, Oklahoma, Stanford)
Creighton (4)
vs Oklahoma (Big East/Big 12)
vs Nebraska
Las Vegas Invitational (2 of Iowa, Texas Tech, San Diego State)
DePaul (3)
vs Texas Tech (Big East/Big 12)
vs Northwestern
@ Boston College
Georgetown (5)
@ Oklahoma State (Big East/Big 12)
@ SMU
vs Syracuse
Empire Classic (2 of Cal, Duke, Texas)
Marquette (5)
@ Kansas State (Big East/Big 12)
@ Wisconsin-Madison
Orlando Invitational (3 of Davidson, Fairfield, Harvard, Maryland, Temple, Texas A&M, USC)
Providence (7)
@ Massachusetts
@ Rhode Island
vs Texas (Big East/Big 12)
vs Boston College
Wooden Legacy (3 of Arizona, Charleston, Long Beach State, Penn, Pepperdine, UCF, Wake Forest)
Seton Hall (7)
@ Iowa State (Big East/Big 12)
@ St. Louis
@ Rutgers
vs Maryland
Battle 4 Atlantis (3 of Alabama, Gonzaga, Iowa State, Michigan, North Carolina, Oregon, Southern Miss)
St. John's (5)
vs West Virginia (Big East/Big 12)
vs 2 of Central Connecticut State, Columbia, Rider, Vermont (Air Force Reserve Campus Games)
Air Force Reserve Tip-Off (2 of Arizona State, UMass, Virginia)
Villanova (8)
@ Temple
@ St. Joseph's
vs Penn
vs La Salle
vs Kansas (Big East/Big 12)
Myrtle Beach Invitational (3 of Baylor, Coastal Carolina, Middle Tennessee State, Mississippi State, Ohio, Tulane, Utah)
Xavier (6)
@ TCU (Big East/Big 12)
vs Cincinnati
vs Missouri
Charleston Classic (3 of Buffalo, UConn, Florida, Miami, Missouri State, St. Joseph's, Towson)
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Doesn't Butler do the Crossroads Classic every year too?
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Bart's Rankings for 2020:
http://barttorvik.com/trankpre.php
#11, First in the Big East
I know we have been saying this forever, but how the hell would Madison be #12 right behind us after losing their only player? I just see absolutely no way they are that good next year.
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Doesn't Butler do the Crossroads Classic every year too?
They would play Purdue next year, if it continues.
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I know we have been saying this forever, but how the hell would Madison be #12 right behind us after losing their only player? I just see absolutely no way they are that good next year.
Bart is a UW-Madison alum i'm pretty sure. He's definitely a Badger fan.
Looks like he is expecting their offense to get quite a bit better (#77 to #41) and the defense to stay the same (#5).
Who would've guessed that losing a 2nd team all american is actually good
Maybe we should try and convince Markus to leave?
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Barring an extreme result in either direction, I really don't think it will be. If Howard comes back and we miss the tournament, that's a referendum moment. If we win the league & go to a Final Four, that's also a referendum moment. Otherwise, I feel like anything from 2nd-6th in league, any NCAA finish that ends the first or second weekend, we'll know little more than we do now other than Wojo can sustain what he's already created.
Yep, I think this is right. Admin seems happy and not in a hurry.
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Couldn't Markus make significant 6 figures in Europe? Why would he be relegated to lower level competition.
Not sure Markus is quite good enough at this point to play at the top level of the Italian or Spanish leagues, where the good money is. I belive tge only former MU player that is currently tgere is Diener n hes averaging 8? Points a game. No Buycks, DJO, etc, they ate all in lesser leagues.
I truly dont believe there is any decision to make. He shot a crapload, he shot a decent percentage, but not great. He did nothing else well. That is not a pro. Hes small, not overly strong or quick. Hes no where near a pro at this point. Shoot less pass more
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Back on topic, if TSN is right and we're the seventh best team in the country, we have legit shot at a Natty. I'm surprised they rank Oregon that high and I don't buy that Virginia is "THAT" good.
If Herro stays, Kentucky should be number 1.
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E8 or bust!!!!
Look at all the teams this year that were supposed to go to the E8 based on rankings or seeds. Duke got two miracles and managed to get there.
38% didn't make, but were "supposed" to
Tennessee didn't
North Carolina didn't
Michigan didn't
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cheeks
#7, baby!!! The bar has been raised and exciting times ahead.
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cheeks
#7, baby!!! The bar has been raised and exciting times ahead.
I sure as hell hope so.
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Legit shot at a Final Four...and it's in Atlanta. :)
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It isn't yet resolved who is going pro and where everyone is going to coach. However, if MU returns everyone, Greg and Koby are who the optimists think they are, Sam and Joey get to have a healthy offseason, MU is going to be very dangerous.
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dgies
Every poster should be setting the bar extremely high for next season and see what happens. Pro Wojo guys should be licking their chops for next season to begin. I am hoping that I am sitting a year from now with egg all over my face.
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dgies
Every poster should be setting the bar extremely high for next season and see what happens. Pro Wojo guys should be licking their chops for next season to begin. I am hoping that I am sitting a year from now with egg all over my face.
How high was the bat for Virginia set last year as a number seed?
They lost. People wanted to fire him. Now they play for a national title. Anything can happen in the tournament.
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How high was the bat for Virginia set last year as a number seed?
They lost. People wanted to fire him. Now they play for a national title. Anything can happen in the tournament.
Maybe 'people' did. Most UVA alums I personally know were more worried about if tourney under-performance continued, at what point would it begin to impact recruiting. But that's just an isolated group of folks I saw at a wedding.
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cheeks
If they get #1 seed and lose the first weekend I would give them a pass. I'll take my chances with #1 seed any day of the week. Now, a 5-7 seed and home first weekend is not real appealing to me. Luckily, next year is the year that everything falls into place. Lets get the season started!!!!
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#4:
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/04/08/college-basketball-2019-2020-preseason-top-25/
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#4, FF or bust!!
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cheeks
#7, baby!!! The bar has been raised and exciting times ahead.
Do you always set your expectations for every program/coach based on pre-preseason opinion polls?
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NBC Sports has MU at #4 in their early poll for next year -assuming Howard returns.
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Do you always set your expectations for every program/coach based on pre-preseason opinion polls?
Fairly certain he is BS'ing with these comments. Goose is not a Wojo fan and has never been sold on the talent level in the program since he came on board (a legitimate gripe until this year, IMO).
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jesmu
As a rule, I do not set expectations off of a way too early preseason poll, but making an exception this year. Since there has been a lot of hoopla over next season's team and 2020 recruiting, I am jumping on the bandwagon early. It has been since Buzz's last season that MU has had this type of "preseason" stature and may as well get jacked up over it.
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Do you always set your expectations for every program/coach based on pre-preseason opinion polls?
No, he's just always a condescending know it all who hopes he can look back and say "I laughed at people who thought we would be good. Nobody thought we'd be good and nobody has Wojo on their list of candidates." Despite literally everyone thinking Wojo would've been a great hire for VT (maybe Goose thinks VT would've rather had Mike Young over Wojo and Wojo was just never a candidate, not that he had no interest in the job) and everyone thinking MU will be very good with the exception of a few chicken littles on MUScoop.
#firewojo
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No, he's just always a condescending know it all who hopes he can look back and say "I laughed at people who thought we would be good. Nobody thought we'd be good and nobody has Wojo on their list of candidates."
It's a fairly well established fact that Goose's expectations have been the same for the last 42 years, and have not been meet for the last 42 years. Championship or bust. Anything less is completely unacceptable.
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It's a fairly well established fact that Goose's expectations have been the same for the last 42 years, and have not been meet for the last 42 years. Championship or bust. Anything less is completely unacceptable.
Pretty sure that is an unfair assessment.
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NBC is loving on the BE. 5 in the top 20.
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wades
You do not read my posts very carefully, yet feel the need to pop off in regards to my posts. For the last time, I hope Wojo proves all of his backers correct and proves me wrong. Quite amusing that you are calling someone a know it all.
DJO and 79 Warriors
KO way exceeded expectations. Buzz way exceeded expectations. Crean for a season exceeded expectations. Pretty sure there is one FF and one E8 in nearly three decades of MU ball. My expectations is far from winning NC every year. I would say at the point, having a program that can play into second weekend of NCAA is reasonable expectation. Agreed?
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NBC is loving on the BE. 5 in the top 20.
I was in a room of MU co-workers and when we saw that come out and saw MU's ranking, we all just collectively groaned.
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A season where we lose to ND by 21 and lose our last game by 33 is exceeding expectations? You're getting soft on me.
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College Basketball Talk pus MU at #4.
Fire Wojo, though.
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/04/08/college-basketball-2019-2020-preseason-top-25/
Also, five BE teams in the top 20 (Nova #7, Seton Hall #12, X #19, Creighton #20).
Mid-major, though.
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DJO
The ND loss was not one of MU's better moments and Kansas beat down was tough one. I would have been very excited if Wojo would have had us in S16 (KO) or FF (crean) this season and had similar results.
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NBC Sports has MU at #4 in their early poll for next year -assuming Howard returns.
no a at 6, sh at 12. #bigeastbacktonormal
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DJO
The ND loss was not one of MU's better moments and Kansas beat down was tough one. I would have been very excited if Wojo would have had us in S16 (KO) or FF (crean) this season and had similar results.
So what you're saying is that we shouldn't pick out a small sample size of games when making decisions about a season, and that looking at the whole picture from November to March is a better indicator? Interesting concept. I agree, although I'm not sure everyone else does.
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jesmu
As a rule, I do not set expectations off of a way too early preseason poll, but making an exception this year. Since there has been a lot of hoopla over next season's team and 2020 recruiting, I am jumping on the bandwagon early. It has been since Buzz's last season that MU has had this type of "preseason" stature and may as well get jacked up over it.
Ok. Fair enough I guess.
It just doesn't seem to jive with your typical approach to evaluation/expectations
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jesmu
My overall set of expectations has remained the same for quite some time. With the importance of the program to the university and the money spent on the program, fielding an NCAA most years is fair expectation. Having a team advance to second weekend and beyond should not be a once in awhile feat. No doubt, things can happen in first weekend to even the best programs. IMO, we have not have met those expectations over past six years for a variety of reasons.
In regards to evaluation, I am quite consistent as well. I try to judge the talent level of the program against teams that play the second weekend in March. Again, I do not believe that the program has fielded teams capable of competing against those teams in past six years.
While I do not believe NCAA is a complete crap shoot, I do understand things happen every year to even the best programs. I would take a program that is expected to perform in March any day of the week.
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NBC Sports has MU at #4 in their early poll for next year -assuming Howard returns.
I guess NBC Sports didn't get the memo that we're better without Markus. And I guess they and all the other way-too-early pollsters didn't get the memo that Wojo is a horrible coach who should have been fired after losing in the NCAA tournament (and then who would never have been hired by any other school, not even as janitor).
As wonderful as preseason polls are, polls taken before the previous season ends are even wonderfullerer!
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I guess NBC Sports didn't get the memo that we're better without Markus.
They just released another poll! WITHOUT Markus we're #1!!!!
Seriously, this is fun stuff, but if 5 BEast teams end up in the top 20 next year I'll eat your NY Times.
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They just released another poll! WITHOUT Markus we're #1!!!!
Seriously, this is fun stuff, but if 5 BEast teams end up in the top 20 next year I'll eat your NY Times.
We can share a table. I'll bring the beer.
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They just released another poll! WITHOUT Markus we're #1!!!!
Seriously, this is fun stuff, but if 5 BEast teams end up in the top 20 next year I'll eat your NY Times.
I heard there might be leftovers
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jesmu
My overall set of expectations has remained the same for quite some time. With the importance of the program to the university and the money spent on the program, fielding an NCAA most years is fair expectation. Having a team advance to second weekend and beyond should not be a once in awhile feat. No doubt, things can happen in first weekend to even the best programs. IMO, we have not have met those expectations over past six years for a variety of reasons.
In regards to evaluation, I am quite consistent as well. I try to judge the talent level of the program against teams that play the second weekend in March. Again, I do not believe that the program has fielded teams capable of competing against those teams in past six years.
While I do not believe NCAA is a complete crap shoot, I do understand things happen every year to even the best programs. I would take a program that is expected to perform in March any day of the week.
I can get on board with this
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Lunardi released his first pre-season bracketology for next season. He has Marquette as a 3 seed.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology/_/iteration/282
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If Willard turned down Va Tech, how would one reconcile the prospect of Wojo jumping over there? Granted, it’s a larger metro, but does anyone actually believe Seton Hall is less of a stepping stone than MU?
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If Willard turned down Va Tech, how would one reconcile the prospect of Wojo jumping over there? Granted, it’s a larger metro, but does anyone actually believe Seton Hall is less of a stepping stone than MU?
Wrong thread?
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Lunardi has MU as a 3 seed in his first 2020 bracket.
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This is why the rule that a player on the court has to call a timeout and a coach cannot is so stupid. Player takes his attention away from the play to try to call a timeout while his teammate is throwing him the ball. Let the players play and the coach decide to take a timeout if he wants.
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This is why the rule that a player on the court has to call a timeout and a coach cannot is so stupid. Player takes his attention away from the play to try to call a timeout while his teammate is throwing him the ball. Let the players play and the coach decide to take a timeout if he wants.
So the refs should be watching the sidelines in case the coach is trying to call a TO instead of the action on the court?
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Lunardi released his first pre-season bracketology for next season. He has Marquette as a 3 seed.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology/_/iteration/282
Clearly overseeded. I mean, how is an 0-31 team gonna be a #3 seed?!?!?
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So the refs should be watching the sidelines in case the coach is trying to call a TO instead of the action on the court?
I’d rather have a missed timeout call than a player miss a pass from a teammate in a tie game in the final seconds of an NCAA Championship game because his coach can’t be the one to call a timeout. In what other sport can a coach not call a timeout? It’s the coach’s job to coach, and one of the biggest things a coach can do in game is decide when a timeout is needed. But he needs to get his player’s attention and then get his player to get the ref’s attention. Why?
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I agree it's a silly rule, wades, and college basketball is the only level that has it. I forbade my players from calling time-outs.
Having said that, everybody knows the rule, including Guy and the teammate who tried to pass to him. It's the same burden for every player on both teams.
But I do agree with you.
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Had that gripe in the wrong thread. Meant for it to be in the NCAA Thread. Sorry.
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https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1115466537996046336
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https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1115466537996046336
We have a Badger fan comedian in the responses
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Hey no one is asking you to move on. If you have the desire to feel miserable and sulk because that is beneficial for you or you believe it will get Wojo fired faster be our guest...you can even create (another) thread about it!
Sorry loud. I did not create the thread
But we will be really, really, really good next year
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Goodman has Marquette preseason number 6. As others have mentioned, Rothstein has MU number 7, Sporting News number 7. Lunardi has MU a 3 seed or top 12. So, many presume Howard will be back, and with other additions, MU is expected by many to be in that top ten or better range.
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Seth Davis has MU at 34
https://theathletic.com/910376/2019/04/09/davis-my-way-too-early-top-25-for-2019-20-heres-looking-at-you-sparty/
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Seth Davis has MU at 34
https://theathletic.com/910376/2019/04/09/davis-my-way-too-early-top-25-for-2019-20-heres-looking-at-you-sparty/
He also has Virginia Tech at 29....
Not sure they have enough players to field a team right now
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Jeff Borzello has Marquette at #2.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26464237/loaded-michigan-state-leads-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true
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Seth Davis has MU at 34
https://theathletic.com/910376/2019/04/09/davis-my-way-too-early-top-25-for-2019-20-heres-looking-at-you-sparty/
Someone must have told Seth about Markus and Sam's plan to go pro early together.
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2 seems high to me but I love it.
34 seems right if Markus leaves and we don't replace him
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TAMU
If Howard stays where do you have them being between 2 and 34?
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TAMU
If Howard stays where do you have them being between 2 and 34?
Gut instinct without actually looking at whos losing what and gaining who? Top 15. Usual stuff will come out on paint touches over the summer once the rosters are more solidified.
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Jeff Borzello has Marquette at #2.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26464237/loaded-michigan-state-leads-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true
Did anyone see the rankings of all the Championship teams on ESPN? Not only are we not ranked high enough, they got the name wrong!
62. Marquette Golden Eagles, 1977 (25-7)
Marquette won the national championship as an independent team, unaffiliated with any conference. That unbounded spirit seemed to animate everything and everyone from the uniforms to the team's unfailingly quotable coach, Al McGuire. The uniquely attired players were also good at basketball: Butch Lee averaged 20 points, and Bo Ellis and Jerome Whitehead controlled the boards.
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Seth Davis has MU at 34
https://theathletic.com/910376/2019/04/09/davis-my-way-too-early-top-25-for-2019-20-heres-looking-at-you-sparty/
At one point this year (when we were still rolling) Seth picked against us bc we were all offense and no D. We had the #1 D in the Big East at the time.
We won that game. I don't believe him to do a ton of research.
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At one point this year (when we were still rolling) Seth picked against us bc we were all offense and no D. We had the #1 D in the Big East at the time.
We won that game. I don't believe him to do a ton of research.
Going into the Final Four he picked Michigan State to win the title. Going into the finals he picked Texas Tech to win the title. He's not great at his predictions.
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Going into the Final Four he picked Michigan State to win the title. Going into the finals he picked Texas Tech to win the title. He's not great at his predictions.
And, here's his Final Four: Gonzaga, Duke, Kentucky and Purdue. Zero for four. Solid.
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All of these high expectations make me nervous. Like, if we finish 4th instead of 2nd, guru will be calling for Wojo's head because we underachieved.
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All of these high expectations make me nervous. Like, if we finish 4th instead of 2nd, guru will be calling for Wojo's head because we underachieved.
Which is different from when?
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Going into the Final Four he picked Michigan State to win the title. Going into the finals he picked Texas Tech to win the title. He's not great at his predictions.
Predictions are one thing but citing our lack of defense when we were leading the conference, is another.
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Gary Parrish checks in at #8 preseason for Marquette but also notes MU lost 6 of 7 to finish season.
So the vast majority of all of these preseason predictions have Marquette in the top 10 going into next year. Expectations will be high.
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Anyone putting real money on MU at 40-1 to win NC next season?
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I just got this email from a gambling site ...
I thought these odds may be of interest to you. They’re courtesy of BetOnline (www.BetOnline.ag, Twitter: @betonline_ag).
2020 NCAA Championship - Odds to Win
Kentucky 5/1
Duke 6/1
Virginia 13/2
Michigan State 8/1
Michigan 12/1
North Carolina 12/1
Gonzaga 14/1
Villanova 16/1
Kansas 20/1
Oregon 22/1
Arizona 25/1
Louisville 25/1
Auburn 33/1
Mississippi State 33/1
Tennessee 33/1
Texas Tech 33/1
Texas 33/1
Cincinnati 50/1
Florida 50/1
Houston 50/1
Iowa 50/1
Marquette 50/1
Purdue 50/1
Syracuse 50/1
Florida State 66/1
LSU 66/1
Maryland 66/1
Memphis 66/1
Ohio State 66/1
Seton Hall 66/1
Wisconsin 66/1
UCLA 100/1
USC 100/1
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I think a case can be made for anywhere from 2-15. If one assumes this team showed what it really was with a healthy Markus & everyone returns, as high as 2 isn't unreasonable (hard to not see Michigan State #1 right now). If one assumes they were always a bit overrated and there are some real warts that were exposed, 15 seems about right as on paper they should still be a better team next year.
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All of these high expectations make me nervous. Like, if we finish 4th instead of 2nd, guru will be calling for Wojo's head because we underachieved.
This is all going to change..In a matter of a week or two.
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I think a case can be made for anywhere from 2-15. If one assumes this team showed what it really was with a healthy Markus & everyone returns, as high as 2 isn't unreasonable (hard to not see Michigan State #1 right now). If one assumes they were always a bit overrated and there are some real warts that were exposed, 15 seems about right as on paper they should still be a better team next year.
Yep. We were a top-15 team for 6 weeks (Week 11-17) last season, a top-10 team for some of that time, and ranked just about all season. And we theoretically will have everybody back to an experienced team that will be adding one of the top transfers in the BEast as well as a valuable reserve who was injured. Our only loss was a guy who averaged 6 mpg.
#10-15 seems right to me.
Single-digit rankings (especially top-5) seem high for a team that has some flaws. But it's fun to conversate about ... and after all, polls are only conversation pieces. They don't mean diddly-do.
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Anyone putting real money on MU at 40-1 to win NC next season?
does $20 count as real money?
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https://twitter.com/marchmadness/status/1115632130594430982
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Maybe all these high preseason rankings will make markus want to stay for his senior year?
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Number 2
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26464237/loaded-michigan-state-leads-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20
Number 4
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/04/08/college-basketball-2019-2020-preseason-top-25/
Number 6
https://watchstadium.com/news/preseason-top-25-jeff-goodmans-2019-20-college-basketball-rankings-04-08-2019/
Number 6
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/04/09/ncaa-basketball-rankings-early-top-25-kentucky-duke-michigan-state
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Number 2
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26464237/loaded-michigan-state-leads-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20
Number 4
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/04/08/college-basketball-2019-2020-preseason-top-25/
Number 6
https://watchstadium.com/news/preseason-top-25-jeff-goodmans-2019-20-college-basketball-rankings-04-08-2019/
Number 6
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/04/09/ncaa-basketball-rankings-early-top-25-kentucky-duke-michigan-state
Thanks, put them on the first post.
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And, here's his Final Four: Gonzaga, Duke, Kentucky and Purdue. Zero for four. Solid.
#crapshoot
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#crapshoot
Yup
And look at Virginia’s journey this year...at least three games they could or should have lost due to any number of reasons. Yes, crapshoot and yes luck is part of the formula.
If people can’t come to that conclusion after this year I don’t know what it will take.
Elite 8 - Purdue 70, Virginia 67, 5 seconds left in game
Final 4 - Auburn 61, Virginia 57, 17 seconds left in game
Champ - Texas Tech 68, Virginia 65, 12 seconds left in game
Virginia won all of these games.
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https://twitter.com/SethDavisHoops/status/1116770588733759488
Seth Davis
Verified account @SethDavisHoops
Not only do I admit when I'm wrong, I'm happy to do it! Especially when it benefits college hoops. Good for Markus -- and Marquette. They go from unranked to being in my preseason top 10. He's that good.
1:30 PM - 12 Apr 2019
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https://twitter.com/SethDavisHoops/status/1116770588733759488
Seth Davis
Verified account @SethDavisHoops
Not only do I admit when I'm wrong, I'm happy to do it! Especially when it benefits college hoops. Good for Markus -- and Marquette. They go from unranked to being in my preseason top 10. He's that good.
1:30 PM - 12 Apr 2019
First time I have respected Seth in a while. At least he admits his error. Still think he's bad at predicting things in college basketball.
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He is that good. Some posters fail to remember that.
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He is that good. Some posters fail to remember that.
We have tunnel vision here. We are all Marquette all the time, so we pick and pick and pick and pick.
National folks, who see the entire landscape, have a much better perspective.
Literally hundreds of basketball coaches out there wish they had Markus Effen Howard. And yet there are Scoopers who, incredibly, think we'd be better without him.
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He is that good. Some posters fail to remember that.
I have thoroughly enjoyed watching Markus these last three years and am looking forward to a great senior season from this outstanding representative of Marquette. These type of monster impact players come along every 20 years or so .
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does $20 count as real money?
No but it usually is affordable. But with the consensus of so many that Wojo has the NC in hand, you just might want to bump it to C-note and make some mid major money.
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I have thoroughly enjoyed watching Markus these last three years and am looking forward to a great senior season from this outstanding representative of Marquette. These type of monster impact players come along every 20 years or so .
But as good as he is, the other players will make the difference how good MU will be next year, rather see Markus scoring going down and play more like a team
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No but it usually is affordable. But with the consensus of so many that Wojo has the NC in hand, you just might want to bump it to C-note and make some mid major money.
Get real, no one is realistically saying national title. People are just optimistic about next season. You should try it sometime
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Markus is a phenomenal talent but elite success for MU and him personally will depend on whether he can evolve into elevating the performance of his teammates more consistently
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Yup
And look at Virginia’s journey this year...at least three games they could or should have lost due to any number of reasons. Yes, crapshoot and yes luck is part of the formula.
If people can’t come to that conclusion after this year I don’t know what it will take.
Elite 8 - Purdue 70, Virginia 67, 5 seconds left in game
Final 4 - Auburn 61, Virginia 57, 17 seconds left in game
Champ - Texas Tech 68, Virginia 65, 12 seconds left in game
Virginia won all of these games.
In a true crapshoot the 64 teams who begin play on the tournament's first Thursday would have an equal chance of winning it all. Of course that's preposterous. Anyone who knows anything about college basketball can name in the neighborhood of 50 teams going in who have no chance.
The #1 team in the Pomeroy rankings won it all again this year. If they lose, to you it proves "crapshoot". If they win, it proves the same. LOL
But you're wrong either way. There will always be upsets, but the team that is left standing is among the cream of college basketball's crop, not some lucky, pick a team out of a hat who rolled 6 straight 7s.
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Just hope our favorite brothers love these coaches.
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Can you be more specific?
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In a true crapshoot the 64 teams who begin play on the tournament's first Thursday would have an equal chance of winning it all. Of course that's preposterous. Anyone who knows anything about college basketball can name in the neighborhood of 50 teams going in who have no chance.
False definition. You keep using a definition of crapshoot that is not accurate for how it is being used here and you know it.
The definition of crapshoot is “something that has an unpredictable outcome”.
That is how I used it, how Mark Few, Jay Wright, various journalists, etc.
Why do you keep insisting on “equal chance or outcome”?
The term crapshoot is used for which the definition is given.
Please find me a definition of crapshoot in the context it has been used in which it provides an equal outcome result.
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Can you be more specific?
I wouldn't worry. Not this year, anyways.
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I wouldn't worry. Not this year, anyways.
The more I hear the more worried I’m getting.....
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The more I hear the more worried I’m getting.....
I have no information that's first hand. But I've talked to people who were at the banquet who said every player said they were excited to have the whole team back next year. Things can change, of course. But I'm not going to stress about it.
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I have no information that's first hand. But I've talked to people who were at the banquet who said every player said they were excited to have the whole team back next year. Things can change, of course. But I'm not going to stress about it.
+1
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The more I hear the more worried I’m getting.....
The one I have heard will be a senior and could go as a grad transfer. Another could be someone that didn't play a bunch this year and would not shock many.
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The one I have heard will be a senior and could go as a grad transfer. Another could be someone that didn't play a bunch this year and would not shock many.
You're talking about Jamal and Sacar. That's not who he is talking about.
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False definition. You keep using a definition of crapshoot that is not accurate for how it is being used here and you know it.
The definition of crapshoot is “something that has an unpredictable outcome”.
That is how I used it, how Mark Few, Jay Wright, various journalists, etc.
Why do you keep insisting on “equal chance or outcome”?
The term crapshoot is used for which the definition is given.
Please find me a definition of crapshoot in the context it has been used in which it provides an equal outcome result.
Like you, chicos, I don't really agree with Lenny's "equal chance" definition. But what I really think Lenny is arguing is that the NCAA tournament actually is pretty damn predictable when it comes to nailing down the teams with realistic chances to win the title.
Although we can't predict the exact team that will win each year, anybody who pays attention can pick the handful of teams that have a legit shot at the championship in the vast majority of years.
Respectfully, if it really were “something that has an unpredictable outcome,” wouldn't there be a lot more lower seeds making the Final Four a lot more years? Wouldn't there be a lot more "surprise" champions?
In the last 20 years, the only true surprise champion was UConn in 2014. Since the tournament went to 64 teams in 1985, only 5 of 140 Final Four teams have been double-digit seeds.
One would think a true "crapshoot" would give a double-digit seed more than 3.6% of a shot at the FF (let alone the championship).
The very first year of the 64-team field, 1985, an 8th-seeded Nova team won the title. Since then no team seeded that low has won. In other words, if a prognosticator had simply eliminated the bottom half of the field in each of the last 34 tournaments, he/she was "right" 100% of the time about those teams.
Seems like the outcome has been pretty darn predictable, as long as one doesn't define "pretty darn predictable" as actually picking the champion every year.
The Stanley Cup playoffs seem like much more of a crapshoot to me; the No. 1 team in the league loses amazingly often in early-round series (not once in history, as in NCAA basketball), and teams that were mediocre during the season play in the finals more than anybody would predict (not never, as in NCAA basketball).
When I can predict with 96% certainty that a double-digit seed won't make it to the Final Four, and with 100% certainty that a double-digit seed won't win the title, one could argue that's the opposite of “something that has an unpredictable outcome."
Oh, and just because you and Mark Few agree, it doesn't make it "true." I bet I can find many things that coaches have said over the years that you wouldn't agree with.
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You're talking about Jamal and Sacar. That's not who he is talking about.
Who is he talking about then?
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Who is he talking about then?
Well, we only have one set of brothers on our team.
But I haven't heard anything to suggest there's anything to it.
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Well, we only have one set of brothers on our team.
But I haven't heard anything to suggest there's anything to it.
Again, I regret even posting it because I loathe offseason rumors as much as anyone and hate adding to it. Have heard there’s a lot of frustration but hope it doesn’t result in anything.
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Like you, chicos, I don't really agree with Lenny's "equal chance" definition. But what I really think Lenny is arguing is that the NCAA tournament actually is pretty damn predictable when it comes to nailing down the teams with realistic chances to win the title.
Although we can't predict the exact team that will win each year, anybody who pays attention can pick the handful of teams that have a legit shot at the championship in the vast majority of years.
Respectfully, if it really were “something that has an unpredictable outcome,” wouldn't there be a lot more lower seeds making the Final Four a lot more years? Wouldn't there be a lot more "surprise" champions?
In the last 20 years, the only true surprise champion was UConn in 2014. Since the tournament went to 64 teams in 1985, only 5 of 140 Final Four teams have been double-digit seeds.
One would think a true "crapshoot" would give a double-digit seed more than 3.6% of a shot at the FF (let alone the championship).
The very first year of the 64-team field, 1985, an 8th-seeded Nova team won the title. Since then no team seeded that low has won. In other words, if a prognosticator had simply eliminated the bottom half of the field in each of the last 34 tournaments, he/she was "right" 100% of the time about those teams.
Seems like the outcome has been pretty darn predictable, as long as one doesn't define "pretty darn predictable" as actually picking the champion every year.
The Stanley Cup playoffs seem like much more of a crapshoot to me; the No. 1 team in the league loses amazingly often in early-round series (not once in history, as in NCAA basketball), and teams that were mediocre during the season play in the finals more than anybody would predict (not never, as in NCAA basketball).
When I can predict with 96% certainty that a double-digit seed won't make it to the Final Four, and with 100% certainty that a double-digit seed won't win the title, one could argue that's the opposite of “something that has an unpredictable outcome."
Oh, and just because you and Mark Few agree, it doesn't make it "true." I bet I can find many things that coaches have said over the years that you wouldn't agree with.
In my opinion you are doing the reverse. Sure, we can all say with 96% certainty a double digit seed won't make the Final Four. But we can all say with that much certainty an 8 seed in the NBA playoffs won't make the final four teams either.
You are correct, just because Mark Few, Coach K, Jay Wright, etc, etc and I agree doesn't make it true...except in this case we are correct....it's an expression and used properly in the confines of the definition of the word. As it is defined, we are correct. An unpredictable outcome. This equal outcome nonsense that Lenny keeps bringing into it is absurd and not the definition of the word.
The consensus number one team going into the "playoffs" has won the NCAA title since 1985 only four times. Four times in 35 tournaments. Less than 12%.
The consensus top team in the NBA, has won it far greater. To the point where odds of the Warriors winning it a few years ago before the playoffs started at 4/7.
NFL, the consensus top team comes out on top at a much higher rate. I'm not talking the team with the best record, that's fool's gold...I'm talking about who is regarded as the best team.
You are right that baseball and hockey are where it gets dicey. Especially in baseball when a team can get knocked out because in the regular season a 5 man rotation matters much more than in playoffs where it is really 4 at most, sometimes only 3. Hockey is also one where it is wide open. Having said that, Boston was picked to win it last year and they won it.
This article does a nice job of looking what sport does the best job in its playoffs of producing the best champion. Guess who finished after the the NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB? That's right, the NCAA basketball tournament.
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/nba-playoffs-best-golden-state-does-team-with-best-record-win-mlb-ncaa-super-bowl-041516
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The more I hear the more worried I’m getting.....
Can you please be a little more vague? The "facts" you've shared so far are so specific that I'm ready to jump.
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Sounds like crash was onta sumthin eh?
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The one I have heard will be a senior and could go as a grad transfer. Another could be someone that didn't play a bunch this year and would not shock many.
lies
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lies
Which is why I said "COULD", no idea if will come to pass or how truthful the rumors could be.
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In my opinion you are doing the reverse. Sure, we can all say with 96% certainty a double digit seed won't make the Final Four. But we can all say with that much certainty an 8 seed in the NBA playoffs won't make the final four teams either.
You are correct, just because Mark Few, Coach K, Jay Wright, etc, etc and I agree doesn't make it true...except in this case we are correct....it's an expression and used properly in the confines of the definition of the word. As it is defined, we are correct. An unpredictable outcome. This equal outcome nonsense that Lenny keeps bringing into it is absurd and not the definition of the word.
The consensus number one team going into the "playoffs" has won the NCAA title since 1985 only four times. Four times in 35 tournaments. Less than 12%.
The consensus top team in the NBA, has won it far greater. To the point where odds of the Warriors winning it a few years ago before the playoffs started at 4/7.
NFL, the consensus top team comes out on top at a much higher rate. I'm not talking the team with the best record, that's fool's gold...I'm talking about who is regarded as the best team.
You are right that baseball and hockey are where it gets dicey. Especially in baseball when a team can get knocked out because in the regular season a 5 man rotation matters much more than in playoffs where it is really 4 at most, sometimes only 3. Hockey is also one where it is wide open. Having said that, Boston was picked to win it last year and they won it.
This article does a nice job of looking what sport does the best job in its playoffs of producing the best champion. Guess who finished after the the NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB? That's right, the NCAA basketball tournament.
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/nba-playoffs-best-golden-state-does-team-with-best-record-win-mlb-ncaa-super-bowl-041516
You defined "crapshoot," and I explained how easily that definition supports the exact opposite of what you say a crapshoot is regarding the NCAA tournament.
Just because you disagree doesn't make you right. And just because you quote a coach in your tagline it doesn't make you right. When all of us know with 100% certainty that a double-digit seed won't win the national title, it is not a crapshoot.
So we'll agree to disagree.
One thing that isn't a crapshoot?
That you will throw out "crapshoot" as your explanation for everything that happens in the NCAA basketball tournament. I can predict that with 100% certainty.
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That you will throw out "crapshoot" as your explanation for everything that happens in the NCAA basketball tournament. I can predict that with 100% certainty.
Luck. Who you play, where you play, if you play (does another team in the bracket knock off someone that would give you trouble). See, I can easily do it without saying the word. So you are 100% wrong.
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Luck. Who you play, where you play, if you play (does another team in the bracket knock off someone that would give you trouble). See, I can easily do it without saying the word. So you are 100% wrong.
Yes, a lot of luck involved in sports.
It was no crapshoot that you went there, though.
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Which is why I said "COULD", no idea if will come to pass or how truthful the rumors could be.
so, you like spreading b.s. unfounded rumors...got it
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If kids where going to transfer the name would be inn the transfer portal already
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Yes, a lot of luck involved in sports.
It was no crapshoot that you went there, though.
According to NickleDiner no luck in sports
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UVA’s NCAA tourney MOP according to cheeks: luck. That’s freaking outstanding
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UVA’s NCAA tourney MOP according to cheeks: luck. That’s freaking outstanding
Part of it...yes. All of it, no.
Not that hard really. Luck on some calls. Luck on a few missed free throws that could have won for other team. Etc. Lick is part of sports, by no means is it the only reason a team wins, nor did I ever suggest that is the case.
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Get real, no one is realistically saying national title. People are just optimistic about next season. You should try it sometime
Right. All the comments here about "natty" are not realistic. I agree. And I am optimistic that others are overly optimistic including you, chicks.
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Lick is part of sports...
Yes, but only on the ass kissing, name dropping media side of sports.
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The more I hear the more worried I’m getting.....
Have you checked the private plane schedule in Gary?
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False definition. You keep using a definition of crapshoot that is not accurate for how it is being used here and you know it.
The definition of crapshoot is “something that has an unpredictable outcome”.
That is how I used it, how Mark Few, Jay Wright, various journalists, etc.
Why do you keep insisting on “equal chance or outcome”?
The term crapshoot is used for which the definition is given.
Please find me a definition of crapshoot in the context it has been used in which it provides an equal outcome result.
How is it a "false definition"?
The #1 definition in the Urban Dictionary? The one that is its MOST common use?
1. A toss up, a roll of the dice.
You might not LIKE how the term "crapshoot" is most commonly used but there you have it. And based on that, you're wrong. Period.
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How is it a "false definition"?
The #1 definition in the Urban Dictionary? The one that is its MOST common use?
1. A toss up, a roll of the dice.
You might not LIKE how the term "crapshoot" is most commonly used but there you have it. And based on that, you're wrong. Period.
I would have thought urban dictio ar would have had a much different definition
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I really have to laugh because all the people that dismiss the Wojo to vatech rumors as being completely bunk totally clamp on to the players transferring rumors and run with it
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How is it a "false definition"?
The #1 definition in the Urban Dictionary? The one that is its MOST common use?
1. A toss up, a roll of the dice.
You might not LIKE how the term "crapshoot" is most commonly used but there you have it. And based on that, you're wrong. Period.
Urban Dicitionary....are you unnatural carnal knowledgeing serious? I mean, are you really unnatural carnal knowledgeing serious? A new low. LOL
Urban Dictionary....my God.
It also says "The stock market is a crapshoot." Well if that is the case, why in the hell do we need stock brokers or people in that field at all....eh?
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Right. All the comments here about "natty" are not realistic. I agree. And I am optimistic that others are overly optimistic including you, chicks.
You don't understand the meaning of the word then based on your second sentence.
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Urban Dicitionary....are you unnatural carnal knowledgeing serious? I mean, are you really unnatural carnal knowledgeing serious? A new low. LOL
Urban Dictionary....my God.
It also says "The stock market is a crapshoot." Well if that is the case, why in the hell do we need stock brokers or people in that field at all....eh?
What's wrong with the urban dictionary? Not traditional enough for you?
Based on the most common use of the term crapshoot you're still wrong. Period. But keep moving the goalposts.
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Life is a crapshoot, so obviously the NCAA tourney is, too. It's part of life.
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What's wrong with the urban dictionary? Not traditional enough for you?
Based on the most common use of the term crapshoot you're still wrong. Period. But keep moving the goalposts.
It isn’t a legitimate dictionary. That’s what is wrong with it. You know damn well if I used it or someone else, you would say it is illegitimate, because it is. People provide definitions at Urban Dictionary, not scholars or lexicographers in a legitimate dictionary.
I didn’t move the goalposts at all. You have a faulty definition of equal outcome which is not the case for how it is used as a description. Keep trying though....maybe you can find a comment on Facebook and say that is a definition,
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It's a crapshoot on whether or not a scoop thread will get derailed by a stupid argument.
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You don't understand the meaning of the word then based on your second sentence.
That must be chicks
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Part of it...yes. All of it, no.
Not that hard really. Luck on some calls. Luck on a few missed free throws that could have won for other team. Etc. Lick is part of sports, by no means is it the only reason a team wins, nor did I ever suggest that is the case.
If you're going to dispute Urban Dictionary, you might as well concede that luck doesn't actually exist. It's just a human construct to explain that which we have not yet been able to quantify. The same way lightning was once attributed to Zeus or Thor, or storms were acts of deities, or assists & blocks weren't recorded as stats.
A shot falling or not falling isn't luck, it's whether or not the shooter put the appropriate trajectory on the ball. The NCAA draw isn't luck, it's based on your season performance & the rules that guide the selection process.
There's no luck, no crapshoot, none of it. Those that win do so because the executed at the necessary times & those that didn't, didn't.
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It's a crapshoot on whether or not a scoop thread will get derailed by a stupid argument.
Actually not. It's an almost 100% certainty ... especially if chicos is involved.
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....we're going off the rails on a crazy train.....
Every scoop thread ever.
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Yet another NHL season points leader loses in Round 1.
This time, in an added twist, the Lightning -- who had one of the best regular-season records ever -- got swept out of the first round.
NHL Playoffs: The true crapshoot.
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Updated with what's now known with the draft/transfers.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26647277/unc-big-mover-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20 (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26647277/unc-big-mover-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20)
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Updated with what's now known with the draft/transfers.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26647277/unc-big-mover-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20 (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26647277/unc-big-mover-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20)
Top 5 teams outside the top 25. Sounds about right to me without looking to closely.
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Top 5 teams outside the top 25. Sounds about right to me without looking to closely.
Also about where we were a year ago.
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Assuming status quo (no impact grad transfers) and health, I think the 19-20 team should have a record roughly akin to the 18-19 team.
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Assuming status quo (no impact grad transfers) and health, I think the 19-20 team should have a record roughly akin to the 18-19 team.
Very disappointing if you are correct.
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Very disappointing if you are correct.
I'd take a 5 seed after losing two of our top three players in the offseason. Still wouldn't be happy about it, but I'd take it.
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24 wins and a 5 seed? I will take that most years.
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24 wins and a 5 seed? I will take that most years.
Most years I would too. But when Marquette spends a couple weeks retweeting every top-10 projection for the next year, I'll admit my expectations go up. Nothing that's happened since their expectation lifting social media blitzkrieg has changed where they reset my expectations to.
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24 wins and a 5 seed? I will take that every most year.
FIFY.
Obviously a little disappointing after we all expected a legit top 5-10 team next season, but a top 20 type team and top 5-6 seed is nothing to stick your nose up at. Just so surprised we didn't have any luck on the grad transfer market. You'd like a big wing/PF type would be drooling at the opportunity to take over the Hauser's role on a team that is supposed to be very good.
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FIFY.
Obviously a little disappointing after we all expected a legit top 5-10 team next season, but a top 20 type team and top 5-6 seed is nothing to stick your nose up at. Just so surprised we didn't have any luck on the grad transfer market. You'd like a big wing/PF type would be drooling at the opportunity to take over the Hauser's role on a team that is supposed to be very good.
Jayce Johnson will commit..Just a hunch, but a strong one.
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In the 42 seasons since winning the national title in 1977, Marquette has:
• Made 20 NCAA appearances
• Won at least 24 games just 10 times
Them's the facts. Earning a bid to the Big Dance and winning 24+ games are both really good things. Even Buzz won fewer than 24 games three times in his six seasons at MU. My eyes are on a bigger prize. But that's no reason to overlook or downplay meaningful accomplishments.
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In the 42 seasons since winning the national title in 1977, Marquette has:
• Made 20 NCAA appearances
• Won at least 24 games just 10 times
Them's the facts. Earning a bid to the Big Dance and winning 24+ games are both really good things. Even Buzz won fewer than 24 games three times in his six seasons at MU. My eyes are on a bigger prize. But that's no reason to overlook or downplay meaningful accomplishments.
The context is important. I would also say absolute level of wins isnt really a great barometer of anything. In the old BEast conference a 50% in-conf record usually got you in the tourney.
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Just saying, if you look at the history, we've missed the tournament more times than we've made it. And winning 24 games is far from an every-season occurrence. Al easily accomplished more in his 13 seasons than all other MU coaches since combined:
Al McGuire (1965-1977)
8 Sweet 16s
4 Elite 8s
2 Final Fours
2 title game appearances
1 national title
All other coaches (1977-present)
6 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
1 Final Four
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In the 42 seasons since winning the national title in 1977, Marquette has:
• Made 20 NCAA appearances
• Won at least 24 games just 10 times
Them's the facts. Earning a bid to the Big Dance and winning 24+ games are both really good things. Even Buzz won fewer than 24 games three times in his six seasons at MU. My eyes are on a bigger prize. But that's no reason to overlook or downplay meaningful accomplishments.
Yep, and Buzz only had two teams seeded higher than 6th.
Some would say such talk is just more settling for mediocrity, but facts are facts.
Now, Buzz won 8 NCAA tourney games, including 3 with teams seeded either #11 or #6, and that matters. When Wojo accomplishes something like that, he likely would get more slack from Scoopers than he does now, and that's fair.
So ...
Would I "take" another 24-win, 5-seed season next year? Well, what if I wouldn't?
It would be hard for me to believe that Wojo would get fired after such a season -- hell, he'd probably get a nice extension, especially if he wins a couple of NCAA tourney games -- and I don't have the power to fire him if I "wouldn't take" such a season.
So then, if I'm truly disgusted, my choice would be to stop being a fan of my alma mater's basketball team, and that's not gonna happen.
So yes, I'd "take" another 24-win, 5-seed season ... and I suspect most Scoopers, even those who loathe Wojo, would as well.
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Yep, and Buzz only had two teams seeded higher than 6th.
Not true. Tom Crean had two teams seeded higher than 6th.
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In the grand scheme of things, Yes 24 wins and a 5 seed is a solid season for our program. However, as was mentioned earlier, with the expectations coming into this season, and the disappointments in Wojo's seasons past, a 5 seed is certainly no reason to be ecstatic.
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Jayce Johnson will commit..Just a hunch, but a strong one.
I am cool with that, but Jayce Johnson really doesn't change my outlook on next season at all. I am all for depth, but I don't really think he makes us much better.
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I am cool with that, but Jayce Johnson really doesn't change my outlook on next season at all. I am all for depth, but I don't really think he makes us much better.
I have to disagree...his rebounding rates are ELITE. His offense rebounding % of 14.1 ranked 27th in the country last year. His defensive rebounding % of 27.5 ranked 23rd. When is the last time MU had someone with those elite rebounding rates?? He's good enough to start for MU, and I suspect he very well might.
His per 40 #'s(last year) : 13.0 PPG, 14.1 RPG, 2.1 BPG
per 100 possessions: 19.1 PPG, 20.7 RPG, 3.1 BPG Ortg-110.9 Drtg-105.1
Theo per 40: 11.2 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 4.2 BPG
Per 100 : 15.8 PPG, 14.0 RPG, 5.9 BPG Ortg- 110.0 Drtg- 93.9
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Not true. Tom Crean had two teams seeded higher than 6th.
I wasn't talking about Crean, so not sure where you're going here, brewski.
I said Buzz only had 2 teams seeded higher than 6th, and that's true: We were 3 seeds in 2012 and again in 2013. Otherwise, 6 in 2009, 6 in 2010, 11 in 2011, and no tourney in 2014.
What's not true?
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I have to disagree...his rebounding rates are ELITE. His offense rebounding % of 14.1 ranked 27th in the country last year. His defensive rebounding % of 27.5 ranked 23rd. When is the last time MU had someone with those elite rebounding rates?? He's good enough to start for MU, and I suspect he very well might.
His per 40 #'s(last year) : 13.0 PPG, 14.1 RPG, 2.1 BPG
per 100 possessions: 19.1 PPG, 20.7 RPG, 3.1 BPG Ortg-110.9 Drtg-105.1
Theo per 40: 11.2 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 4.2 BPG
Per 100 : 15.8 PPG, 14.0 RPG, 5.9 BPG Ortg- 110.0 Drtg- 93.9
I'd be disappointing if a stop gap grad transfer that isn't clearly better than Theo displaced his as the starting C. Again, I am not against Johnson, and I will certainly take him. He just doesn't move the needle much for me. I'd be happy to be wrong.
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I am cool with that, but Jayce Johnson really doesn't change my outlook on next season at all. I am all for depth, but I don't really think he makes us much better.
I think he will be more than an adequate plug- in when Ed and/or Theo run into foul trouble. If not, there might be a glaring weakness without another Big.
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I’m with Jamil on this. We have more pressing roster needs than landing another 5. I also doubt he’d be content to transfer here to fill the Heldt role. If he doesn’t expect to start, he will expect to play A LOT more than Heldt did, which may cause chemistry issues
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I’m with Jamil on this. We have more pressing roster needs than landing another 5. I also doubt he’d be content to transfer here to fill the Heldt role. If he doesn’t expect to start, he will expect to play A LOT more than Heldt did, which may cause chemistry issues
Do guys want to win, or are they only in it for themselves?? You get as many good players as possible, that is the #1 thing that gives you the best chance of winning.
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I wasn't talking about Crean, so not sure where you're going here, brewski.
I said Buzz only had 2 teams seeded higher than 6th, and that's true: We were 3 seeds in 2012 and again in 2013. Otherwise, 6 in 2009, 6 in 2010, 11 in 2011, and no tourney in 2014.
What's not true?
I misread it. Thought you were saying he was the only coach with 2 better-than-6 seeds.
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If next season was a repeat of last season (5 seed with first round exit), I would be disappointed because we were on track for a better finish. But I would also enjoy it and be able to objectively call it a good season. It can be both.
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I’m with Jamil on this. We have more pressing roster needs than landing another 5. I also doubt he’d be content to transfer here to fill the Heldt role. If he doesn’t expect to start, he will expect to play A LOT more than Heldt did, which may cause chemistry issues
The question is if Wojo and Co plan on adjusting the offense at all. There are offensive styles that would allow Morrow and John/Johnson to be on the floor at the same time....it would just be a major departure from what Wojo has run since year 2.
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Do you guys want MU to have the best talent possible, or not?? Way way way way way way too many people worry about chemistry issues. Yeah, sure, it's a thing, as we have found out, but dammit, the easiest way to win games is with as much talent as you can possibly have.
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If next season was a repeat of last season (5 seed with first round exit), I would be disappointed because we were on track for a better finish. But I would also enjoy it and be able to objectively call it a good season. It can be both.
Agreed it can be both but a plateau for Wojo. With the talent loss next season I expect MU to trend downward. These two seasons maybe the height of Wojo.
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Do you guys want MU to have the best talent possible, or not?? Way way way way way way too many people worry about chemistry issues. Yeah, sure, it's a thing, as we have found out, but dammit, the easiest way to win games is with as much talent as you can possibly have.
Did Virginia have the best talent? I have seen some MU teams with more talent perform at lesser levels than less talented MU teams.
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Starting line up: Markus, Koby, Sacar, Bailey, Theo. Bench: Cain, Ed, Greg. That is a little small up front and missing a mauler at the 4. Beyond that, that 8 man rotation is solid.
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Starting line up: Markus, Koby, Sacar, Bailey, Theo. Bench: Cain, Ed, Greg. That is a little small up front and missing a mauler at the 4. Beyond that, that 8 man rotation is solid.
Agreed if Koby is as good as everybody is saying. A year ago, many of us (including Wojo) thought JCS was gonna be good, too, so although I am an optimist I also want to see for myself.
That lineup should be quick and be able to play some D. I worry about rebounding and 3-point shooting.
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Starting line up: Markus, Koby, Sacar, Bailey, Theo. Bench: Cain, Ed, Greg. That is a little small up front and missing a mauler at the 4. Beyond that, that 8 man rotation is solid.
Solid...maybe, but far from spectacular.
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Agreed it can be both but a plateau for Wojo. With the talent loss next season I expect MU to trend downward. These two seasons maybe the height of Wojo.
Could be. If that's the plateau, Wojo will be replaced eventually. We will definitely be in for a rebuild year in 20-21 but I think the expectation will be that we still make the tourney despite a down year.
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Starting line up: Markus, Koby, Sacar, Bailey, Theo. Bench: Cain, Ed, Greg. That is a little small up front and missing a mauler at the 4. Beyond that, that 8 man rotation is solid.
Agreed - and I'd love to see 8 minutes a game of Markus getting g some rest and Cain in for him for a suffocating press team. I believe that would help extend Markus through the end of the year at the same All-American level.
I do agree my one concern is defensive rebounding and if Bailey is the 4 the. Theo and Ed are going to need to be great defensive rebounders. With a little more.time.on the court I believe Cain is a great 3 point shooter.
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Agreed - and I'd love to see 8 minutes a game of Markus getting g some rest and Cain in for him for a suffocating press team. I believe that would help extend Markus through the end of the year at the same All-American level.
I do agree my one concern is defensive rebounding and if Bailey is the 4 the. Theo and Ed are going to need to be great defensive rebounders. With a little more.time.on the court I believe Cain is a great 3 point shooter.
In jamal's freshman season he did shoot 47% from 3 but on only 55 shots
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Did Virginia have the best talent? I have seen some MU teams with more talent perform at lesser levels than less talented MU teams.
No Virginia did not have the best talent, apparently they are just really good at craps.
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Did Virginia have the best talent? I have seen some MU teams with more talent perform at lesser levels than less talented MU teams.
Virginia had a lottery pick, another likely first round pick and Kyle Guy who will likely get drafted and I wouldn’t bet against him sticking in the NBA
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Virginia had a lottery pick, another likely first round pick and Kyle Guy who will likely get drafted and I wouldn’t bet against him sticking in the NBA
Exactly...they had talent.
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Exactly...they had talent.
And a lot of luck!
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Exactly...they had talent.
They'll be less talented this year, so maybe they'll be better.
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No Virginia did not have the best talent, apparently they are just really good at craps.
And the regular season, in which it isn’t a crapshoot and they did very well last I checked.
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Virginia had a lottery pick, another likely first round pick and Kyle Guy who will likely get drafted and I wouldn’t bet against him sticking in the NBA
Didn’t say they weren’t talented, I said they did they have the most talent. The most talent doesn’t always win, in fact our own MU program has illustrations of this through the years.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
really early but just thought i should post
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
really early but just thought i should post
Always a good thing to be in the mix.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
really early but just thought i should post
I'm outraged that we are only a 9 seed after the undefeated season we are about to have.
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I'm outraged that we are only a 9 seed after the undefeated season we are about to have.
It's a down year for the Big East. We'll be lucky to be a 9 seed at 32-0.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
really early but just thought i should post
This matches up pretty much with where my expectations are since the Hauser's announced they are leaving.
I still think we are a tournament team. 9 seed is probably about right. Maybe I'm a tad more optimistic, I think a 7 is probably possible, but not much higher.
Hopefully we can at least get one tourney win this year.
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I think a repeat of 18-19 is possible. 24 wins, 5 seed.
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I think a repeat of 18-19 is possible. 24 wins, 5 seed.
So, you see us recovering from the loss of the H Boys. I like it.
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Players leave. Marquette added Koby, Greg, and Jayce.
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I think a repeat of 18-19 is possible. 24 wins, 5 seed.
Definitely possible. But not my expectation.
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I think a repeat of 18-19 is possible. 24 wins, 5 seed.
I can see it but a different path to get there than last year. Start like 20-7 but win 3 of the last 4. 23-8 heading to the BET but trending up instead. That's my optimistic outlook if things go well.
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We will have a much better backcourt this year. One of the best in the country. Guard play is very important. Our bigs provide what you need from bigs in today’s game (strength and size). We should be better defensively, maybe a bit worse on the boards but I think roughly the same, and worse shooting. If 2 of Sacar/Greg/Jamal/Koby/Brendan can shoot the three between 37%-40% and we don’t have any petitions being written behind one player’s back we will be a better team playing in a tougher conference than we were last year.
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I am excited that we will have a roster of players who want to be Warriors.
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I am excited that we will have a roster of players who want to be Warriors.
As of May that seems to be the case. Hope it's still the case in March - then I'll share your excitement.
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I think a repeat of 18-19 is possible. 24 wins, 5 seed.
sure it is possible
But probable is quite another
It is also possible we hey blown out as a 5 seed in the dance, of we even make it.
We are definitely going to miss Sam. Markus will need to a a average about 38 a game.
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sure it is possible
But probable is quite another
It is also possible we hey blown out as a 5 seed in the dance, of we even make it.
We are definitely going to miss Sam. Markus will need to a a average about 38 a game.
I have no reason to believe Markus will average 38 in AA. I’m not even sure if he does it will help Marquette
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Just having another guard who can get their own shot and also create for others will make a big difference. Having a quicker team defensively will make a difference.
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I have no reason to believe Markus will average 38 in AA. I’m not even sure if he does it will help Marquette
Howard certainly won't & I agree it would be a bad thing, though 28-30 is certainly possible. And if the ball is in his hands less, having someone like McEwen, if he can create for others, could actually make that a good thing.
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Howard certainly won't & I agree it would be a bad thing, though 28-30 is certainly possible. And if the ball is in his hands less, having someone like McEwen, if he can create for others, could actually make that a good thing.
Yep, and Greg adds another dimension to all that as well.
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https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2019-05-30/college-basketball-rankings-andy-katzs-power-36-teams-right?fbclid=IwAR3EZiPDgs29c9dqZIteM8GTXFrNgY6QLrOqbAl2YPQVe7pkeUwZVrxqxlU
Andy Katz LOVES the Big East
7. Seton Hall
14. Villanova
15. Xavier
20. Georgetown
23. Marquette
30. Providence
36. Creighton
Half the conference in the top 25, 70% in the top 36. Butler, Depaul, and St. John's not on his "in the mix" list.
Some of his picks (not just the Big East ones) don't make a ton of sense to me but this would be a pretty solid result for the conference.
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I have a hard time seeing Xavier or Georgetown being better than Marquette.
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https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2019-05-30/college-basketball-rankings-andy-katzs-power-36-teams-right?fbclid=IwAR3EZiPDgs29c9dqZIteM8GTXFrNgY6QLrOqbAl2YPQVe7pkeUwZVrxqxlU
Andy Katz LOVES the Big East
7. Seton Hall
14. Villanova
15. Xavier
20. Georgetown
23. Marquette
20. Providence
36. Creighton
Half the conference in the top 25, 70% in the top 36. Butler, Depaul, and St. John's not on his "in the mix" list.
Some of his picks (not just the Big East ones) don't make a ton of sense to me but this would be a pretty solid result for the conference.
I thought we were just going to cancel next year.
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How do you define better next year? I think the team will be better, but that does not mean we win 24 games.
The purpose of the regular season and Big East tournament is to earn an NCAA bid. The NCAA tournament decides how good your season is.
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How do you define better next year? I think the team will be better, but that does not mean we win 24 games.
The purpose of the regular season and Big East tournament is to earn an NCAA bid. The NCAA tournament decides how good your season is.
We understand. And the blowout of MU in their first game should definitely decide that the season was a disaster.
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How do you define better next year? I think the team will be better, but that does not mean we win 24 games.
The purpose of the regular season and Big East tournament is to earn an NCAA bid. The NCAA tournament decides how good your season is.
I disagree. For me, the regular season/conference tournament decides your grade for the season. The NCAA tournament can drop you a half letter grade for an upset loss in the first round or give you extra credit for advancing.
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I disagree. For me, the regular season/conference tournament decides your grade for the season. The NCAA tournament can drop you a half letter grade for an upset loss in the first round or give you extra credit for advancing.
Why?? You should know...right or wrong, you are judged by how you do in the tournament..So if you decide that after the regular season/BET MU has earned an A...if they made the Final Four, they would stay at an A?? I'm sorry TAMU but I can't envision a scenario where any regular season/BET record, would trump a sweet 16 or further run. If someone goes to the Sweet 16(or deeper) in a given year, what are people going to remember?? That that school finished 25-10(and finished 3rd in their conf and made the finals of their conf tournament, or they went to the sweet 16??
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Why?? You should know...right or wrong, you are judged by how you do in the tournament..So if you decide that after the regular season/BET MU has earned an A...if they made the Final Four, they would stay at an A?? I'm sorry TAMU but I can't envision a scenario where any regular season/BET record, would trump a sweet 16 or further run. If someone goes to the Sweet 16(or deeper) in a given year, what are people going to remember?? That that school finished 25-10(and finished 3rd in their conf and made the finals of their conf tournament, or they went to the sweet 16??
Can you name the sweet 16 teams from three, four, five years ago? Maybe the odd elite 8 team but really unless you get to the sweet 16 year in year out nobody's going to remember it. I'd rather be like Xavier the year they had 1 seed than have a quick sweet 16 randomly.
31-3, Conference Tournament champs, 1st round
22-15, T-9th in conference, Sweet 16.
Which is the season you'd prefer?
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I tend to value tournament success very highly.
Then again ...
Did Virginia go from an F- in 2017-18 to an A+ in 2018-19?
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https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2019-05-30/college-basketball-rankings-andy-katzs-power-36-teams-right?fbclid=IwAR3EZiPDgs29c9dqZIteM8GTXFrNgY6QLrOqbAl2YPQVe7pkeUwZVrxqxlU
Andy Katz LOVES the Big East
7. Seton Hall
14. Villanova
15. Xavier
20. Georgetown
23. Marquette
30. Providence
36. Creighton
Half the conference in the top 25, 70% in the top 36. Butler, Depaul, and St. John's not on his "in the mix" list.
Some of his picks (not just the Big East ones) don't make a ton of sense to me but this would be a pretty solid result for the conference.
For those of us who have moved on from the Hauser incident, this goes to show how the program has made some positive steps. After losing two starters who were going to be major contributors, most people have MU in the 20-35 range for next year. A Positive sign that can be built upon.
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Why?? You should know...right or wrong, you are judged by how you do in the tournament..So if you decide that after the regular season/BET MU has earned an A...if they made the Final Four, they would stay at an A?? I'm sorry TAMU but I can't envision a scenario where any regular season/BET record, would trump a sweet 16 or further run. If someone goes to the Sweet 16(or deeper) in a given year, what are people going to remember?? That that school finished 25-10(and finished 3rd in their conf and made the finals of their conf tournament, or they went to the sweet 16??
If MU went 20-12 next season, 10-8 in the BE, made the dance as a 11 seed and made the Elite 8, I am sure you would be bitching the whole time about how this program is a disgrace, that is spends too much money to only win 20 games, that Wojo is awful blah blah blah blah blah.
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If MU went 20-12 next season, 10-8 in the BE, made the dance as a 11 seed and made the Elite 8, I am sure you would be bitching the whole time about how this program is a disgrace, that is spends too much money to only win 20 games, that Wojo is awful blah blah blah blah blah.
He would. There's no consistency in what he's saying now. Here's some of Guru's hits from the 2010-11 season:
An extremely passionate one thank you very much! Perhaps you are satisfied with mediocrity. I frankly am not. I want MU to be one of those perennial NCAA teams. Uw has been, no damn reason MU can't be either. I'm not on the fire buzz bandwagon, but something wasn't right with this team this year, and he didn't seemingly do anything to try to fix it either. Everyone is responsible for this craptacular season.
EXACTLY!!! I don't get that people try to use that excuse with everything...."well every team struggles on the road", or..."even the best teams lose at home sometimes, and now this one??
What people fail to realize is I personally(and I am sure many others don't either) could care less what other teams do. I care about what Marquette does. I hold them to higher standards than I do anyone else. So just because Nova and UCONN finished 9-9, does NOT excuse MU finishing 9-9 IMO.
Those "other" two 9-9 teams are also going ot be playing in the NCAAs next weekend. MU likely won't be.
If MU can't/doesn't beat SJU at home, they don't deserve to be dancing anyway. Simple as that.
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Why?? You should know...right or wrong, you are judged by how you do in the tournament..So if you decide that after the regular season/BET MU has earned an A...if they made the Final Four, they would stay at an A?? I'm sorry TAMU but I can't envision a scenario where any regular season/BET record, would trump a sweet 16 or further run. If someone goes to the Sweet 16(or deeper) in a given year, what are people going to remember?? That that school finished 25-10(and finished 3rd in their conf and made the finals of their conf tournament, or they went to the sweet 16??
Small time thinking. Who cares about a Sweet 16 run? I want National Championships. You get there by consistently earning high seeds. You do that during the regular season.
You may enjoy a Sweet 16 run. But by the following year 99% of non-Marquette fans won't remember they made it. People remember Final Fours and National Championships. Less than that and no one cares.
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If MU went 20-12 next season, 10-8 in the BE, made the dance as a 11 seed and made the Elite 8, I am sure you would be bitching the whole time about how this program is a disgrace, that is spends too much money to only win 20 games, that Wojo is awful blah blah blah blah blah.
You cannot be serious?? Bitch about an elite 8 appearance?? Just stop...I know you want to attack me any chance you can get, but even with this, you make yourself look like a fool.
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Small time thinking. Who cares about a Sweet 16 run? I want National Championships. You get there by consistently earning high seeds. You do that during the regular season.
You may enjoy a Sweet 16 run. But by the following year 99% of non-Marquette fans won't remember they made it. People remember Final Fours and National Championships. Less than that and no one cares.
Well yeah, I want a National Championships too. But regular season does NOTHING to guarantee that. But you know what does?? Winning 6 games in March in the NCAA's. That's the ONLY thing that guarantees a National championship. Gonzaga has great regular seasons every year, but they haven't won a Natty...what does that get them??
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Gonzaga has great regular seasons every year, but they haven't won a Natty...what does that get them??
One more national championship appearance than we have had in the past 41 years.
Stop the small time thinking guru, it doesn't suit you.
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Small time thinking. Who cares about a Sweet 16 run? I want National Championships.
This. A Sweet 16 or Elite 8 might be fun, but it's meaningless. I'd take a Big East Tourney title over either of those. Final Fours and National Titles are the only things in the NCAA Tournament with any permanence.
Any less than that...frankly there's not much difference between losing the first day or second weekend to me.
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Well yeah, I want a National Championships too. But regular season does NOTHING to guarantee that. But you know what does?? Winning 6 games in March in the NCAA's. That's the ONLY thing that guarantees a National championship. Gonzaga has great regular seasons every year, but they haven't won a Natty...what does that get them??
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One more national championship appearance than we have had in the past 41 years.
Stop the small time thinking guru, it doesn't suit you.
Me, small time thinking?? Hardly! How many times have i said I want this program to be elite?? The regular season is what gets you into the tournament..winning 6 games in the tournament is what gets you a National Championship. You can do that as a 1 seed, a 4 seed, or whatever seed. Regular season success is NO guarantee of post season success, regardless of what seed you earn. You seem to think by consistently getting high seeds yo eventually "break through" and win the Natty, it doesn't work that way, again look at Gonzaga. I don't care how you win a National championship..I don't care if MU does it as a 9 seed...just win it.
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This. A Sweet 16 or Elite 8 might be fun, but it's meaningless. I'd take a Big East Tourney title over either of those. Final Fours and National Titles are the only things in the NCAA Tournament with any permanence.
Any less than that...frankly there's not much difference between losing the first day or second weekend to me.
Well yeah, as i said, I want national Champonships too, but my point to TAMU was it doesn't matter how good your regular season is, it doesn't guarantee a Natty...the only thing that does is winning 6 games in the post season. And right now at this point for MU, sadly enough, I'd just take a tourney win.
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Well yeah, as i said, I want national Champonships too, but my point to TAMU was it doesn't matter how good your regular season is, it doesn't guarantee a Natty...the only thing that does is winning 6 games in the post season. And right now at this point for MU, sadly enough, I'd just take a tourney win.
I wouldn't. Honestly, if Marquette went 6-10 in the tournament in the next 11 years, I'd be fine with that, provided they made the tourney every year.
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Me, small time thinking?? Hardly! How many times have i said I want this program to be elite?? The regular season is what gets you into the tournament..winning 6 games in the tournament is what gets you a National Championship. You can do that as a 1 seed, a 4 seed, or whatever seed. Regular season success is NO guarantee of post season success, regardless of what seed you earn. You seem to think by consistently getting high seeds yo eventually "break through" and win the Natty, it doesn't work that way, again look at Gonzaga. I don't care how you win a National championship..I don't care if MU does it as a 9 seed...just win it.
Since the far majority of national champions have come from a high seed, regular season success does correlate to winning in the tourney.
Math isn't on your side, it would seem.
Logic.
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I have a hard time seeing Xavier or Georgetown being better than Marquette.
Xavier was playing very well at the end of the season. When I saw them at the Big East tournament semifinal they looked very strong against Villanova. They have all their core players back and have replaced the grad transfers with a new set of grad transfers. Plus a strong incoming class. A lot of good stuff going on at X.
Georgetown has a quality transfer big man coming on line from NC State. Although at this juncture, I still think MU is a better team.
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Simple question. What was more successful in your mind? Last year's 24-10 or Buzz's 22-15 year.
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Simple question. What was more successful in your mind? Last year's 24-10 or Buzz's 22-15 year.
I'd rather have a conference championship than a sweet 16
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Since the far majority of national champions have come from a high seed, regular season success does correlate to winning in the tourney.
Math isn't on your side, it would seem.
Logic.
It does?? Wonder what Gonzaga would say about that?? And a great regular season is NOT a guarantee of post season success, point being, you can have 10-12 GREAT regular seasons in a row, but it doesn't guarantee you will cut down the nets, now does it??
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Me, small time thinking?? Hardly! How many times have i said I want this program to be elite??
You can say it all you want, but your posts scream small time.
Me, small time thinking?? Hardly! How many times have i said I want this program to be elite?? The regular season is what gets you into the tournament..winning 6 games in the tournament is what gets you a National Championship. You can do that as a 1 seed, a 4 seed, or whatever seed. Regular season success is NO guarantee of post season success, regardless of what seed you earn. You seem to think by consistently getting high seeds yo eventually "break through" and win the Natty, it doesn't work that way, again look at Gonzaga. I don't care how you win a National championship..I don't care if MU does it as a 9 seed...just win it.
How many 9 seeds or lower have won the national championship in the past 34 years? I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with hero.
Well yeah, as i said, I want national Champonships too, but my point to TAMU was it doesn't matter how good your regular season is, it doesn't guarantee a Natty...the only thing that does is winning 6 games in the post season. And right now at this point for MU, sadly enough, I'd just take a tourney win.
So your point is the only thing that guarantees a national champion is winning the national championship? Groundbreaking logic there.
Only 4 National Champions had a seed lower than 3 in the past 34 years. That's a pretty strong correlation. Best path to success is to get as many of those top 3 seeds as possible.
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Simple question. What was more successful in your mind? Last year's 24-10 or Buzz's 22-15 year.
Easy, last year.
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You can say it all you want, but your posts scream small time.
How many 9 seeds or lower have won the national championship in the past 34 years? I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with hero.
So your point is the only thing that guarantees a national champion is winning the national championship? Groundbreaking logic there.
Only 4 National Champions had a seed lower than 3 in the past 34 years. That's a pretty strong correlation. Best path to success is to get as many of those top 3 seeds as possible.
Sure it does, but wake me when MU gets to the level that they are knocking down 3 seeds repeatedly. Believe me, no one would love it more if they were than me, but as soon as i say that someone comes along as says "that's not being realistic", so whatever.
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It does?? Wonder what Gonzaga would say about that?? And a great regular season is NOT a guarantee of post season success, point being, you can have 10-12 GREAT regular seasons in a row, but it doesn't guarantee you will cut down the nets, now does it??
Why are you obsessed with the word guarantee all of the sudden? No one is guaranteed a national championship. But the higher the seed, the greater your chances.
I'm also not sure why you are bashing Gonzaga. Since they've started their run of great regular seasons they've had a lot more postseason success than we have.
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Sure it does, but wake me when MU gets to the level that they are knocking down 3 seeds repeatedly. Believe me, no one would love it more if they were than me, but as soon as i say that someone comes along as says "that's not being realistic", so whatever.
I don't think anyone think that's not being realistic. What's not realistic is "THAT IT HAPPENS RIGHT MEOW OR ELSE!"
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Sure it does, but wake me when MU gets to the level that they are knocking down 3 seeds repeatedly.
Are you going to sleep until then?
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I don't think anyone think that's not being realistic. What's not realistic is "THAT IT HAPPENS RIGHT MEOW OR ELSE!"
(https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/selectall/2019/05/17/grump.nocrop.w710.h2147483647.jpg)
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It does?? Wonder what Gonzaga would say about that?? And a great regular season is NOT a guarantee of post season success, point being, you can have 10-12 GREAT regular seasons in a row, but it doesn't guarantee you will cut down the nets, now does it??
Yes, there is a correlation between regular season success and postseason success. Are you really this dense?
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Sure it does, but wake me when MU gets to the level that they are knocking down 3 seeds repeatedly. Believe me, no one would love it more if they were than me, but as soon as i say that someone comes along as says "that's not being realistic", so whatever.
It does?? Wonder what Gonzaga would say about that?? And a great regular season is NOT a guarantee of post season success, point being, you can have 10-12 GREAT regular seasons in a row, but it doesn't guarantee you will cut down the nets, now does it??
Wait.... So it does or it doesn't...? :o
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Why are you obsessed with the word guarantee all of the sudden? No one is guaranteed a national championship. But the higher the seed, the greater your chances.
I'm also not sure why you are bashing Gonzaga. Since they've started their run of great regular seasons they've had a lot more postseason success than we have.
Yes Gonzaga has had more postseason success..but they haven't won a National Championship(which is what you say matters and is most important and I don't disagree), despite numerous 1-3 seeds the past decade.
If MU had a regular season of 21-10 finished 4th in conference at 9-9, got a 6 or 7 seed in the NCAA's and won the National Championship..would you be lamenting the fact that they didn't have a very good regular season, or would that not matter because in the end, they cut down the nets?
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Yes, there is a correlation between regular season success and postseason success. Are you really this dense?
Great! So MU as a 5 seed didn't really lose to a 12 seed this year? Well holy crap! Virginia as a 1 seed didn't lose to a 16 seed last year? Both had good regular seasons, right? Did that correlate?
How about the year the Patriots went 16-0 in the regular season but lost the Super Bowl? Or the Bucks this year that had the best record in the East, and didn't make the Eastern Conference Finals..Or the year UCONN won the NCAA tourney as a 7 seed..did those regular seasons "correlate" with those teams postseasons?
Are you really this dense?
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Great! So MU as a 5 seed didn't really lose to a 12 seed this year? Well holy crap! Virginia as a 1 seed didn't lose to a 16 seed last year? Both had good regular seasons, right? Did that correlate?
How about the year the Patriots went 16-0 in the regular season but lost the Super Bowl? Or the Bucks this year that had the best record in the East, and didn't make the Eastern Conference Finals..Or the year UCONN won the NCAA tourney as a 7 seed..did those regular seasons "correlate" with those teams postseasons?
Are you really this dense?
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I'd rather have a conference championship than a sweet 16
It would be close for me, but I think I'd take the Sweet 16.
To me, the conference title in 2013 would have meant pretty little if we had lost that NCAA opener to Davidson.
Ask Virginia if the conference title made them feel better about losing to UMBC.
This is a personal preference issue, though, I recognize there. There isn't a "right" or "wrong" answer.
We all want both the conference title AND the Sweet 16 (and beyond).
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Yes Gonzaga has had more postseason success..but they haven't won a National Championship(which is what you say matters and is most important and I don't disagree), despite numerous 1-3 seeds the past decade.
I said Final Fours and National Championships matter. Gonzaga has been in more national championship games in the past three years than we have been in the past 41. And why is that the only example you are using? What about Duke? North Carolina? Villanova? Kentucky? Florida? Virginia? Kansas? They all have something in common, they started getting top seeds regularly to give themselves the best shot at a national championship.
If MU had a regular season of 21-10 finished 4th in conference at 9-9, got a 6 or 7 seed in the NCAA's and won the National Championship..would you be lamenting the fact that they didn't have a very good regular season, or would that not matter because in the end, they cut down the nets?
I would say that we were the 2nd worst and 2nd luckiest national champion in the past 35 years (or however long it took to make this happen). As happy as I would be, I would call us lucky, not good.
Great! So MU as a 5 seed didn't really lose to a 12 seed this year? Well holy crap! Virginia as a 1 seed didn't lose to a 16 seed last year? Both had good regular seasons, right? Did that correlate?
How about the year the Patriots went 16-0 in the regular season but lost the Super Bowl? Or the Bucks this year that had the best record in the East, and didn't make the Eastern Conference Finals..Or the year UCONN won the NCAA tourney as a 7 seed..did those regular seasons "correlate" with those teams postseasons?
Are you really this dense?
1. The Bucks made the Eastern Conference Finals. I think you meant the NBA Finals.
2. Correlation does not mean causation.
3. I'm glad you brought up UConn. What happened after they won the national championship? They missed the tournament the following season. Made the tourney as a bubble team the season after that. Since then, they have turned in three straight losing seasons. To use your other favorite example, which program do you think is better right now? Gonzaga or UConn?
Again Guru, you are thinking small time. The goal isn't to make one national championship and then never sniff it again. The goal is to be competing for a national championship every single season. The only way to do that is to consistently earn high seeds. Think bigger! Have some cajones!
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I said Final Fours and National Championships matter. Gonzaga has been in more national championship games in the past three years than we have been in the past 41. And why is that the only example you are using? What about Duke? North Carolina? Villanova? Kentucky? Florida? Virginia? Kansas? They all have something in common, they started getting top seeds regularly to give themselves the best shot at a national championship.
I would say that we were the 2nd worst and 2nd luckiest national champion in the past 35 years (or however long it took to make this happen). As happy as I would be, I would call us lucky, not good.
1. The Bucks made the Eastern Conference Finals. I think you meant the NBA Finals.
2. Correlation does not mean causation.
3. I'm glad you brought up UConn. What happened after they won the national championship? They missed the tournament the following season. Made the tourney as a bubble team the season after that. Since then, they have turned in three straight losing seasons. To use your other favorite example, which program do you think is better right now? Gonzaga or UConn?
Again Guru, you are thinking small time. The goal isn't to make one national championship and then never sniff it again. The goal is to be competing for a national championship every single season. The only way to do that is to consistently earn high seeds. Think bigger! Have some cajones!
You say that, and people applaud you, when I have brought that up in the past, I have been told repeatedly that "that isn't realistic for MU", or I have to "accept what MU is as a program". You want me to think bigger(which I think bigger then most I'd say, there are posts to prove it), yet when I mention it...I get told it's not realistic...what exactly am I supposed to do??
How about this?? You have to walk before you can run, right?? So let's see Wojo win an NCAA game FIRST, before we worry about/talk about getting regularly high seeds, ok?? It's sad that after 5 years we still have to discuss winning an NCAA game, but here we are.
You're significantly younger than I am TAMU, you may have the luxury of seeing MU win multiple National Championships in your lifetime, I hope like hell you do. The odds I see that are probably about .0000001%(hopefully not), therefore at this stage of my life, I'd take one more Natty in my lifetime and be happy about it. I'd love more...but, time isn't on my side like it is yours.
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You say that, and people applaud you, when I have brought that up in the past, I have been told repeatedly that "that isn't realistic for MU", or I have to "accept what MU is as a program". You want me to think bigger(which I think bigger then most I'd say, there are posts to prove it), yet when I mention it...I get told it's not realistic...what exactly am I supposed to do??
How about this?? You have to walk before you can run, right?? So let's see Wojo win an NCAA game FIRST, before we worry about/talk about getting regularly high seeds, ok?? It's sad that after 5 years we still have to discuss winning an NCAA game, but here we are.
It's all about communication.
When you have said that, you often phrase it in a manner that deems anything less as unacceptable, essentially you never acknowledge the "walk before you run"
You second paragraph I feel like pretty much everybody would applaud you and say welcome to the world of realistic expectations that change based on what we return, what we bring in, how experienced the coach is, the tournament matchup etc. rather than black and white "we are a failure if we don't make the final four or win the national championship"
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I said Final Fours and National Championships matter. Gonzaga has been in more national championship games in the past three years than we have been in the past 41. And why is that the only example you are using? What about Duke? North Carolina? Villanova? Kentucky? Florida? Virginia? Kansas? They all have something in common, they started getting top seeds regularly to give themselves the best shot at a national championship.
I would say that we were the 2nd worst and 2nd luckiest national champion in the past 35 years (or however long it took to make this happen). As happy as I would be, I would call us lucky, not good.
1. The Bucks made the Eastern Conference Finals. I think you meant the NBA Finals.
2. Correlation does not mean causation.
3. I'm glad you brought up UConn. What happened after they won the national championship? They missed the tournament the following season. Made the tourney as a bubble team the season after that. Since then, they have turned in three straight losing seasons. To use your other favorite example, which program do you think is better right now? Gonzaga or UConn?
Again Guru, you are thinking small time. The goal isn't to make one national championship and then never sniff it again. The goal is to be competing for a national championship every single season. The only way to do that is to consistently earn high seeds. Think bigger! Have some cajones!
Ding ding.
Thanks for being rational.
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Simple question. What was more successful in your mind? Last year's 24-10 or Buzz's 22-15 year.
Last year. It was nice having a coach that didn’t quit on his team
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I for one would take the Zags success for the rest of my life for MU. Think of each year being a force in the non con, the clear favorite for your conference and a high NCAA seed, a threat to go all the way. You get 30+ wins to enjoy and 5 or less loses. Think of passing the winter that way. Sure when you get that consistent success you want the final crown but if i had to give that up in this deal with the devil I'd take it for my team all day long.
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You say that, and people applaud you, when I have brought that up in the past, I have been told repeatedly that "that isn't realistic for MU", or I have to "accept what MU is as a program". You want me to think bigger(which I think bigger then most I'd say, there are posts to prove it), yet when I mention it...I get told it's not realistic...what exactly am I supposed to do??
Again, the "not being realistic" comments you get aren't about consistently getting high seeds. It's about saying that it should have happened by year 2 of Wojo's tenure, or that we should be there already. Like you say:
How about this?? You have to walk before you can run, right??
Exactly, that's what a lot of us have been trying to tell you. You don't go from "some program" to "elite" in a few years. It's a slow progression where you build on success.
You're significantly younger than I am TAMU, you may have the luxury of seeing MU win multiple National Championships in your lifetime, I hope like hell you do. The odds I see that are probably about .0000001%(hopefully not), therefore at this stage of my life, I'd take one more Natty in my lifetime and be happy about it. I'd love more...but, time isn't on my side like it is yours.
I'm going to quote you here:
To me, the guys on the team have to ask themselves, what's more important...winning or "me"??
You have to ask yourself the same question. What's more important? The team or you? Just because you might not see the results, doesn't mean that this isn't the right path.
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MU will realize on everyone’s goals once they hire a dynamic and motivational young coach. The current occupant of the job has demonstrated he not the right guy to put MU on the necessary track for high level success.
Unfortunately the administration is not on the same page as the fan base . The bromance is alive and well.
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MU will realize on everyone’s goals once they hire a dynamic and motivational young coach. The current occupant of the job has demonstrated he not the right guy to put MU on the necessary track for high level success.
Unfortunately the administration is not on the same page as the fan base . The bromance is alive and well.
You speak for the fan base?
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You speak for the fan base?
2019: Beard, Bennett, Izzo, Pearl
2018: Wright, Beilein, Moser, Self
2017: Martin, Few, Williams, Altman
2016: Wright, Williams, Kruger, Boeheim
2015: Calipari, K, Cryptkeeper, Izzo
Lot of young guys on that list of Final 4 coaches. Super dynamic personalities, too
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2019: Beard, Bennett, Izzo, Pearl
2018: Wright, Beilein, Moser, Self
2017: Martin, Few, Williams, Altman
2016: Wright, Williams, Kruger, Boeheim
2015: Calipari, K, Cryptkeeper, Izzo
Lot of young guys on that list of Final 4 coaches. Super dynamic personalities, too
Teal button broken? ;D
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2019: Beard, Bennett, Izzo, Pearl
2018: Wright, Beilein, Moser, Self
2017: Martin, Few, Williams, Altman
2016: Wright, Williams, Kruger, Boeheim
2015: Calipari, K, Cryptkeeper, Izzo
Lot of young guys on that list of Final 4 coaches. Super dynamic personalities, too
Those guys were all young and/or dynamic back in the day. That is how they got to where there are today.
Wojo barking at the kids to " Play Angry" is not going to get a team far. When they played that video it was an embarrassment. No wonder the Hausers jumped ship.
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Those guys were all young and/or dynamic back in the day. That is how they got to where there are today.
Wojo barking at the kids to " Play Angry" is not going to get a team far. When they played that video it was an embarrassment. No wonder the Hausers jumped ship.
Lol I love the humor you bring to Scoop
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Again, the "not being realistic" comments you get aren't about consistently getting high seeds. It's about saying that it should have happened by year 2 of Wojo's tenure, or that we should be there already. Like you say:
Exactly, that's what a lot of us have been trying to tell you. You don't go from "some program" to "elite" in a few years. It's a slow progression where you build on success.
I'm going to quote you here:
You have to ask yourself the same question. What's more important? The team or you? Just because you might not see the results, doesn't mean that this isn't the right path.
Just pure domination of guru by you lately. Love it
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MU will realize on everyone’s goals once they hire a dynamic and motivational young coach. The current occupant of the job has demonstrated he not the right guy to put MU on the necessary track for high level success.
Unfortunately the administration is not on the same page as the fan base . The bromance is alive and well.
Can I ask what dynamic, young, motivational coaches are on your shortlist - that would actually come to MU?
Keep in mind, there appears to be a huge contingent that believes MU should only get established/successful coaches for our next hire as well. So you have to account for that.
So who is the young, dynamic, motivational, already-established and successful coach that will choose MU over other more elite/blue blood positions?
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MU will realize on everyone’s goals once they hire a dynamic and motivational young coach. The current occupant of the job has demonstrated he not the right guy to put MU on the necessary track for high level success.
Unfortunately the administration is not on the same page as the fan base . The bromance is alive and well.
If only we had gotten a young dynamic coach like Shaka, who has absolutely torn it up at Texas!
Or one like Beard, who had 1 year of coaching at a low-major before he got the Texas Tech job and would have been ripped by Scoopers the day he was hired.
Or one like Moser, who has accomplished next to nothing as a college head coach.
Or one like, well, anybody but Wojo, right?
I agree with those who say the next 10 months are pivotal for Wojo. I say it myself. He has to prove he can win next season, and he has to sign a good recruiting class for 2020.
If he does those things, he will have done his job (at least in the near term), no matter what the alleged "fan base" that you believe hates him thinks.
So who is the young, dynamic, motivational, already-established and successful coach that will choose MU over other more elite/blue blood positions?
Yes, I'd like to see that question answered, too.
jes, you forgot to say that whichever young, dynamic, motivational, already-established and successful coach must immediately put together a 25-30 win season that includes a BEast title and at least an Elite 8 run.
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You speak for the fan base?
He's A Loud Speaker, and also has knowledge of Coaches that can Demotivate and still keep their jobs.
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If only we had gotten a young dynamic coach like Shaka, who has absolutely torn it up at Texas!
Or one like Beard, who had 1 year of coaching at a low-major before he got the Texas Tech job and would have been ripped by Scoopers the day he was hired.
Or one like Moser, who has accomplished next to nothing as a college head coach.
Or one like, well, anybody but Wojo, right?
I agree with those who say the next 10 months are pivotal for Wojo. I say it myself. He has to prove he can win next season, and he has to sign a good recruiting class for 2020.
If he does those things, he will have done his job (at least in the near term), no matter what the alleged "fan base" that you believe hates him thinks.
Yes, I'd like to see that question answered, too.
jes, you forgot to say that whichever young, dynamic, motivational, already-established and successful coach must immediately put together a 25-30 win season that includes a BEast title and at least an Elite 8 run.
GREAT POST! I happened to be together with some rapid fans of Auburn and some other programs yesterday and we were all comparing notes and concluded most of the top 108 fan bases (based on kenpom below) can't understand why they are not in the Sweet 16 every other year, but with blue bloods at the top hoarding regular appearances the math just doesn't add up.
- Virginia
Duke
Michigan
Kansas
North Carolina
Indiana
Wisconsin
Kentucky
Purdue
Villanova
Michigan St.
Maryland
Syracuse
Illinois
Gonzaga
Iowa
Marquette
Iowa St.
Louisville
Ohio St.
Arizona
Connecticut
Cincinnati
Missouri
Tennessee
North Carolina St.
Xavier
Minnesota
Butler
Notre Dame
Texas
Florida
Georgetown
Washington
Penn St.
Virginia Tech
Auburn
Nebraska
UCLA
Texas Tech
Dayton
Pittsburgh
Alabama
Wichita St.
West Virginia
Memphis
Providence
St. John's
Florida St.
VCU
Seton Hall
Arkansas
Wake Forest
Nevada
Northwestern
Creighton
Kansas St.
Boston College
Vanderbilt
Oregon
San Diego St.
Texas A&M
Arizona St.
Colorado
Temple
Baylor
LSU
Clemson
Rutgers
BYU
Miami FL
Buffalo
Penn
Oklahoma
UNLV
Georgia Tech
South Carolina
California
Georgia
TCU
Mississippi
Rhode Island
Saint Louis
Davidson
DePaul
USC
Harvard
Houston
Massachusetts
New Mexico
Saint Joseph's
Illinois St.
Bradley
Saint Mary's
Washington St.
Yale
Richmond
St. Bonaventure
Western Kentucky
Ball St.
George Mason
Ohio
Oklahoma St.
SMU
Utah
Fordham
George Washington
Mississippi St.
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Can I ask what dynamic, young, motivational coaches are on your shortlist - that would actually come to MU?
Keep in mind, there appears to be a huge contingent that believes MU should only get established/successful coaches for our next hire as well. So you have to account for that.
So who is the young, dynamic, motivational, already-established and successful coach that will choose MU over other more elite/blue blood positions?
According to the meat summit men, the list is 3 people long and consists of Tony Bennett, Kelvin Sampson, and Chris Beard.
Maybe we can convince one to be the head coach and 2 to be assistants. Shouldn't be that hard right?
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Those guys were all young and/or dynamic back in the day. That is how they got to where there are today.
Wojo barking at the kids to " Play Angry" is not going to get a team far. When they played that video it was an embarrassment. No wonder the Hausers jumped ship.
Oh stop Herman.....you can go through any number of coach speeches by any coach and cherry pick.
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Nets is to Derrick
as
Cain is to Wojo
Tired, boring, repetitive, stupid
How many dozens of posts will we have to endure that all continue to say the exact same thing?
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MU will realize on everyone’s goals once they hire a dynamic and motivational young coach. The current occupant of the job has demonstrated he not the right guy to put MU on the necessary track for high level success.
Unfortunately the administration is not on the same page as the fan base . The bromance is alive and well.
At least start you rant based on a truth.
The majority of the fan base, including the most rabid (Scoopers) fans support Wojo.
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Those guys were all young and/or dynamic back in the day. That is how they got to where there are today.
Wojo barking at the kids to " Play Angry" is not going to get a team far. When they played that video it was an embarrassment. No wonder the Hausers jumped ship.
Tony Bennett was definitely one of the most dynamic coaches I’ve ever seen. That’s why Sam went to play for him
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According to the meat summit men, the list is 3 people long and consists of Tony Bennett, Kelvin Sampson, and Chris Beard.
Maybe we can convince one to be the head coach and 2 to be assistants. Shouldn't be that hard right?
Sampson is too old, Bennett isn’t dynamic enough (I believe the phrase I saw thrown around earlier this week, was “vanilla”) but Beard would fit the bill. He’s definitely leaving his home state for Milwaukee. Let’s get it done
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GREAT POST! I happened to be together with some rapid fans of Auburn and some other programs yesterday and we were all comparing notes and concluded most of the top 108 fan bases (based on kenpom below) can't understand why they are not in the Sweet 16 every other year, but with blue bloods at the top hoarding regular appearances the math just doesn't add up.
- Virginia
Duke
Michigan
Kansas
North Carolina
Indiana
Wisconsin
Kentucky
Purdue
Villanova
Michigan St.
Maryland
Syracuse
Illinois
Gonzaga
Iowa
Marquette
Iowa St.
Louisville
Ohio St.
Arizona
Connecticut
Cincinnati
Missouri
Tennessee
North Carolina St.
Xavier
Minnesota
Butler
Notre Dame
Texas
Florida
Georgetown
Washington
Penn St.
Virginia Tech
Auburn
Nebraska
UCLA
Texas Tech
Dayton
Pittsburgh
Alabama
Wichita St.
West Virginia
Memphis
Providence
St. John's
Florida St.
VCU
Seton Hall
Arkansas
Wake Forest
Nevada
Northwestern
Creighton
Kansas St.
Boston College
Vanderbilt
Oregon
San Diego St.
Texas A&M
Arizona St.
Colorado
Temple
Baylor
LSU
Clemson
Rutgers
BYU
Miami FL
Buffalo
Penn
Oklahoma
UNLV
Georgia Tech
South Carolina
California
Georgia
TCU
Mississippi
Rhode Island
Saint Louis
Davidson
DePaul
USC
Harvard
Houston
Massachusetts
New Mexico
Saint Joseph's
Illinois St.
Bradley
Saint Mary's
Washington St.
Yale
Richmond
St. Bonaventure
Western Kentucky
Ball St.
George Mason
Ohio
Oklahoma St.
SMU
Utah
Fordham
George Washington
Mississippi St.
I guess what your saying is a lot of people are looking for the same young , dynamic and motivational coach.
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Tony Bennett was definitely one of the most dynamic coaches I’ve ever seen. That’s why Sam went to play for him
Tony Bennett was definitely not one of the most dynamic coaches I’ve seen. That’s why Shayok bolted and went to play at Iowa State.
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Tony Bennett was definitely not one of the most dynamic coaches I’ve seen. That’s why Shayok bolted and went to play at Iowa State.
Are you sure he didn’t lose his job???
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Sampson is too old, Bennett isn’t dynamic enough (I believe the phrase I saw thrown around earlier this week, was “vanilla”) but Beard would fit the bill. He’s definitely leaving his home state for Milwaukee. Let’s get it done
At the exact same point as when Texas Tech hired him, if we had hired him then, numerous Scoopers, probably led by guru, would have freaked out about how inexperienced and unworthy he was.
Sorry, guru, but you know it's true.
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At the exact same point as when Texas Tech hired him, if we had hired him then, numerous Scoopers, probably led by guru, would have freaked out about how inexperienced and unworthy he was.
Sorry, guru, but you know it's true.
You're right, but the difference is...he would have shut me up quickly, if he had the same success right away at MU as he has had at Texas Tech. That's the difference between him and Wojo. If Wojo has had the same results, he would have shut me up to. Call Beard's tenure at TT fluky or once in a lifetime, or whatever, you want to call it, it still happened, and that's what I always ask myself, "why can't stuff like that ever happen to MU basketball"?? That takes a vision though, from the people in charge, boldness, willing to go where no one else has gone before to turn the tables on the college basketball world, and to make Marquette the epitomy of the CBB world.
Everyone talks about how hard it is to recruit to Marquette etc. Maybe so, but let's take away those disadvantages and turn them into an advantage, let's make MU basketball THE place where top players want to be, and where top Coaches want to Coach. Like their slogan says "Marquette University, be the difference". I'd change the word difference to "different".
What am I talking about?? You spend $$ now on the program, spend even more. There are enough wealthy donors and alums that are invested enough in the BB program, that if you shared your "vision" with them, they would get on board. Hit up Dwade, hit up former players with $$ etc. Do whatever you have to do...Offer to pay a Coach more $$ than any place in the country, and let it be known. Make guys offers they can't refuse. Build the absolute best facilities in the country(or right up there).
But it takes a leader and a vision that means being bold and big. No one thinks that a small catholic University in Milwaukee can compete with the "top dogs" in college basketball...prove to them you can, show them you will be "different". For god's sakes when a wealthy donor offers to foot the entire bill for dorms for the team/athletes, that rivals Kentucky's "coal lodge", don't keep putting him off until he walks away. You take it, and don't look back. Things like THAT are what MU has to do to accelerate to the top, maybe against all odds, but leadership and vision(and yes $$ but you can get that), are the key. MU needs "that guy".
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Guru you are stuck in a time warp in a fantasy land. God bless you and the dream you have. I hope it comes true.
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You're right, but the difference is...he would have shut me up quickly, if he had the same success right away at MU as he has had at Texas Tech. That's the difference between him and Wojo. If Wojo has had the same results, he would have shut me up to. Call Beard's tenure at TT fluky or once in a lifetime, or whatever, you want to call it, it still happened, and that's what I always ask myself, "why can't stuff like that ever happen to MU basketball"?? That takes a vision though, from the people in charge, boldness, willing to go where no one else has gone before to turn the tables on the college basketball world, and to make Marquette the epitomy of the CBB world.
Everyone talks about how hard it is to recruit to Marquette etc. Maybe so, but let's take away those disadvantages and turn them into an advantage, let's make MU basketball THE place where top players want to be, and where top Coaches want to Coach. Like their slogan says "Marquette University, be the difference". I'd change the word difference to "different".
What am I talking about?? You spend $$ now on the program, spend even more. There are enough wealthy donors and alums that are invested enough in the BB program, that if you shared your "vision" with them, they would get on board. Hit up Dwade, hit up former players with $$ etc. Do whatever you have to do...Offer to pay a Coach more $$ than any place in the country, and let it be known. Make guys offers they can't refuse. Build the absolute best facilities in the country(or right up there).
But it takes a leader and a vision that means being bold and big. No one thinks that a small catholic University in Milwaukee can compete with the "top dogs" in college basketball...prove to them you can, show them you will be "different". For god's sakes when a wealthy donor offers to foot the entire bill for dorms for the team/athletes, that rivals Kentucky's "coal lodge", don't keep putting him off until he walks away. You take it, and don't look back. Things like THAT are what MU has to do to accelerate to the top, maybe against all odds, but leadership and vision(and yes $$ but you can get that), are the key. MU needs "that guy".
It is actually not that hard to recruit in Milwaukee . Kids love the urban dynamic and vibe. What is hard is recruiting to Milwaukee for a team that is not relevant nationally.
A few years ago I was in bad neighborhood in Philly and had my MU gear on. A guy on the street who was part of the basketball culture in Philly saw me and unsolicited came up and said that back in the day the dream of many was to go and play at Marquette . That kind of thing happens when a team wins. If MU can just get back to Crean/Buzz standard the team will actually be able to get that very top level talent again.
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It is actually not that hard to recruit in Milwaukee . Kids love the urban dynamic and vibe. What is hard is recruiting to Milwaukee for a team that is not relevant nationally.
I had almost forgotten that you were on Grimes’s official visit to Marquette with him so I definitely take your word here as accurate, first hand stuff. I’m sure you’ve been accompanying kids on their officials at MU for many years now.
Lol.
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It is actually not that hard to recruit in Milwaukee . Kids love the urban dynamic and vibe. What is hard is recruiting to Milwaukee for a team that is not relevant nationally.
A few years ago I was in bad neighborhood in Philly and had my MU gear on. A guy on the street who was part of the basketball culture in Philly saw me and unsolicited came up and said that back in the day the dream of many was to go and play at Marquette . That kind of thing happens when a team wins. If MU can just get back to Crean/Buzz standard the team will actually be able to get that very top level talent again.
Going to agree with Herman. Until recently, no NBA player wanted to go to Milwaukee. Now guys are knocking down the door to play there. Same thing happened with the Packers. Remember when no black guy wanted to be in Green Bay because he supposedly couldn't get a proper haircut? Winning changes everything.
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It is actually not that hard to recruit in Milwaukee . Kids love the urban dynamic and vibe. What is hard is recruiting to Milwaukee for a team that is not relevant nationally.
A few years ago I was in bad neighborhood in Philly and had my MU gear on. A guy on the street who was part of the basketball culture in Philly saw me and unsolicited came up and said that back in the day the dream of many was to go and play at Marquette . That kind of thing happens when a team wins. If MU can just get back to Crean/Buzz standard the team will actually be able to get that very top level talent again.
A team that was on national tv most of last year, ranked number 10 and made the ncaa tournament? A coach that pulled and helped to develop a kid from Arizona to come to the great north to become an All American.
Some kids love the urban dynamic. Some kids love the change of seasons. Some kids hate the urban dynamic. Some kids hate the cold.
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Going to agree with Herman. Until recently, no NBA player wanted to go to Milwaukee. Now guys are knocking down the door to play there. Same thing happened with the Packers. Remember when no black guy wanted to be in Green Bay because he supposedly couldn't get a proper haircut? Winning changes everything.
Winning can help and last year we did a lot of winning. But Milwaukee is always going to be tougher to recruit to than 25 other places. That isn’t going to change, but winning absolutely helps offset it.
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Call Beard's tenure at TT fluky or once in a lifetime, or whatever, you want to call it, it still happened, and that's what I always ask myself, "why can't stuff like that ever happen to MU basketball"?? That takes a vision though, from the people in charge, boldness, willing to go where no one else has gone before to turn the tables on the college basketball world, and to make Marquette the epitomy of the CBB world.
Stuff like that has happened at MU basketball. Multiple times and repeatedly. Marquette got a 3-star recruit in 2000 that turned out to be the third best shooting guard in the history of the game and led Marquette to a Final Four. Marquette got a JUCO commit that was basically a "player to be named later" with Joe Fulce who committed on a McDonald's placemat and led them to a Sweet 16 before becoming a NBA All-Star. Marquette hired a coach who had washed out at New Orleans, was on staff for one year, and came out of nowhere to lead the program to S16/S16/E8. Marquette flipped the recruitment of a 17-year-old who reclassified who ended up the RSCI #71 player in his class and will be the all-time leading scorer in program history & possibly Big East history.
Unexpected stories happen all over college basketball and that includes here. Maybe Symir Torrence is the next such story. Maybe Brenden Bailey will go from 2-year mission to NBA All-Star. Maybe it will be a Justin Lewis or Johnny Davis that haven't yet committed. And maybe Wojo will go from lifetime assistant to National Championship winner. We don't know yet because we don't know yet.
Going back 55 years, no one knew that the D2 Belmont Abbey coach who went 13-39 in his last two years there, who had seen his win totals decline in every single season at Belmont Abbey, would end up leading Marquette to a National Championship.
Just because *this* improbable thing didn't happen here doesn't mean we haven't had numerous improbable things happen here over the years. You're just too close to see them and realize them for what they are when they do happen here.
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Stuff like that has happened at MU basketball. Multiple times and repeatedly. Marquette got a 3-star recruit in 2000 that turned out to be the third best shooting guard in the history of the game and led Marquette to a Final Four. Marquette got a JUCO commit that was basically a "player to be named later" with Joe Fulce who committed on a McDonald's placemat and led them to a Sweet 16 before becoming a NBA All-Star. Marquette hired a coach who had washed out at New Orleans, was on staff for one year, and came out of nowhere to lead the program to S16/S16/E8. Marquette flipped the recruitment of a 17-year-old who reclassified who ended up the RSCI #71 player in his class and will be the all-time leading scorer in program history & possibly Big East history.
Unexpected stories happen all over college basketball and that includes here. Maybe Symir Torrence is the next such story. Maybe Brenden Bailey will go from 2-year mission to NBA All-Star. Maybe it will be a Justin Lewis or Johnny Davis that haven't yet committed. And maybe Wojo will go from lifetime assistant to National Championship winner. We don't know yet because we don't know yet.
Going back 55 years, no one knew that the D2 Belmont Abbey coach who went 13-39 in his last two years there, who had seen his win totals decline in every single season at Belmont Abbey, would end up leading Marquette to a National Championship.
Just because *this* improbable thing didn't happen here doesn't mean we haven't had numerous improbable things happen here over the years. You're just too close to see them and realize them for what they are when they do happen here.
My point is Brew...I want those things to be the "rule" at MU, a consistent occurrence, not a fluky once in a while type occurrence. Let schools like Texas Tech etc, have those things. That's what my post outlined...a vision, a boldness, to where you don't necessarily have to rely on "once in awhile type things" to happen to see success at the highest levels. In other words, you want to be elite...don't wait for it to come to you, go get it yourself. That's where the "vision" comes in, and that's where it starts.
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My point is Brew...I want those things to be the "rule" at MU, a consistent occurrence, not a fluky once in a while type occurrence. Let schools like Texas Tech etc, have those things. That's what my post outlined...a vision, a boldness, to where you don't necessarily have to rely on "once in awhile type things" to happen to see success at the highest levels. In other words, you want to be elite...don't wait for it to come to you, go get it yourself. That's where the "vision" comes in, and that's where it starts.
The definition of things being fluky is that they aren't the rule. No program consistently turns 3-star kids into NBA all-timers. No program consistently pulls coaches off the scrap heap of history and sends them to the Hall of Fame.
What you are describing is Duke or Kentucky. Maybe you could stretch it to Kansas and UNC, but that's about it. And that takes years to achieve. At Duke, it took K 5 years of disappointing results before he consistently reached the level you are calling for. It took Villanova 15 years with Jay Wright. It took Gonzaga closer to 20 with Mark Few.
If you want a top-5 program, you better be willing to suck it up for a decade or two with the same coach before you start to see those results. And understand that until you have put 10-20 years in, you still won't really know if they will get you to the promised land. Hell, there were calls to fire Jay Wright after he had been in Philly for 12 years. That's the kind of commitment an elite program requires. So if you truly want the program to be elite, the only thing you can do is be patient and hope. Because it will probably be another 5-10 years before we have any real clarity on the heights Wojo can take us to, and who knows if he'll even be here that long?
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Going to agree with Herman. Until recently, no NBA player wanted to go to Milwaukee. Now guys are knocking down the door to play there. Same thing happened with the Packers. Remember when no black guy wanted to be in Green Bay because he supposedly couldn't get a proper haircut? Winning changes everything.
Disagreed. How many NBA players have “wanted to come to Milwaukee?” Greg Monroe, and that worked out...well, not so great. Brook Lopez was a Lakers throwaway who nobody else wanted. Pat C.? Again, I don’t think he was in high demand.
The Bucks will win a title the moment a second star is next to Giannis. Unless a second star really loves Giannis as a person and player, the Bucks aren’t finding that through free agency. They’ll either have to draft and develop a player into that or they’ll have to trade for that.
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The definition of things being fluky is that they aren't the rule. No program consistently turns 3-star kids into NBA all-timers. No program consistently pulls coaches off the scrap heap of history and sends them to the Hall of Fame.
What you are describing is Duke or Kentucky. Maybe you could stretch it to Kansas and UNC, but that's about it. And that takes years to achieve. At Duke, it took K 5 years of disappointing results before he consistently reached the level you are calling for. It took Villanova 15 years with Jay Wright. It took Gonzaga closer to 20 with Mark Few.
If you want a top-5 program, you better be willing to suck it up for a decade or two with the same coach before you start to see those results. And understand that until you have put 10-20 years in, you still won't really know if they will get you to the promised land. Hell, there were calls to fire Jay Wright after he had been in Philly for 12 years. That's the kind of commitment an elite program requires. So if you truly want the program to be elite, the only thing you can do is be patient and hope. Because it will probably be another 5-10 years before we have any real clarity on the heights Wojo can take us to, and who knows if he'll even be here that long?
Again Brew...I think you're missing my point...this is NOT about MU being like those other schools in regards to the "patience etc", it's about wanting to see them blazing a new trail, laying down the path for quicker success at an elite level. Pay Coaches more than anyone else pays them(by a decent margin), build the BEST facilities(practice arena, dorms, weight rooms, etc), in the country, stay ahead of the curve, always..Give the Coaches WHATEVER they need to be successful at the highest level(within the rules of the NCAA)..."whatever you want/need, I will get it for you". Make it THE place where the 5 star recruits want to come in droves, make it the talk of the college basketball world(positive publicity). If you build it...they will come.
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Again Brew...I think you're missing my point...this is NOT about MU being like those other schools in regards to the "patience etc", it's about wanting to see them blazing a new trail, laying down the path for quicker success at an elite level. Pay Coaches more than anyone else pays them(by a decent margin), build the BEST facilities(practice arena, dorms, weight rooms, etc), in the country, stay ahead of the curve, always..Give the Coaches WHATEVER they need to be successful at the highest level(within the rules of the NCAA)..."whatever you want/need, I will get it for you". Make it THE place where the 5 star recruits want to come in droves, make it the talk of the college basketball world(positive publicity). If you build it...they will come.
What happens when you do all that and the big name coach still doesn't come? Because we would probably get someone good but not the level you'd be hoping for.
What happens when you do hire someone good and then the results are still mediocre? Just because you hire someone who was good in the past doesn't mean that they will work at the next position.
You seem to believe that if you throw enough money at the program they will be successful. I've watched TU just down the road from me follow that strategy for years and they just continually spin their wheels in both football and basketball. Money helps but the only that works is continued and sustained success which requires patience. There is no substitute for it.
What will actually attract the top coaches is showing loyalty to your current coach, extend his contract when deserved, and increase his salary when deserved to the point where that coach becomes one of the highest paid coaches by a decent margin. You don't start there because then your stuck paying millions of dollars to a coach that may not pan out.
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What happens when you do all that and the big name coach still doesn't come? Because we would probably get someone good but not the level you'd be hoping for.
What happens when you do hire someone good and then the results are still mediocre? Just because you hire someone who was good in the past doesn't mean that they will work at the next position.
You seem to believe that if you throw enough money at the program they will be successful. I've watched TU just down the road from me follow that strategy for years and they just continually spin their wheels in both football and basketball. Money helps but the only that works is continued and sustained success which requires patience. There is no substitute for it.
What will actually attract the top coaches is showing loyalty to your current coach, extend his contract when deserved, and increase his salary when deserved to the point where that coach becomes one of the highest paid coaches by a decent margin. You don't start there because then your stuck paying millions of dollars to a coach that may not pan out.
If you pay enough...I think a big name Coach will come. "xxx pays what, 9 Million per year?? Okay, we will pay 12 million a year". Money talks unfortunately...we see that all over the place. There is no such thing as loyalty(or very little of it) in sports at any level these days. And IF my way doesn't work immediately, I am still willing to bet it will..quicker than the "traditional" way would. It's just accelerating the timeline.
It's like an Iphone...every time a new one comes out, EVERYONE gets in line to get one. People want the "latest and greatest". In this scenario, MU would be the "latest and greatest". If said Coach can do it at a University that doesn't have everything that this MU would have, then they certainly should be able to do it at MU with EVERYTHING at their disposal.
Is it guaranteed?? Life isn't guaranteed. But I'm 99.9% sure MU would win multiple National titles quicker this way then the "typical" school would. And the thing is, IF you stay on top of things(always advancing etc), you COULD run into a situation where you win many consecutive National titles, to where it's unprecedented.
And your way(which is many others), what happens when that doesn't work out after you have tried and tried and tried every 6-7 years you're changing Coaches?? My way would be a MAJOR acceleration of that "time line". Let's put it this way, if the way I propose didn't work in say 3-4 years, you can change course MUCH quicker.
I'm not a patient person...with anything, not just MU basketball. The older I get, even less so. I don't have the time or inclination to wait another 20 years to see if MU can win multiple national titles.
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Then I suggest cutting eight figure checks to Marquette. Because they aren't paying anyone $12 million off the street.
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How much did Crean get to go to UGA?
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If you pay enough...I think a big name Coach will come. "xxx pays what, 9 Million per year?? Okay, we will pay 12 million a year". Money talks unfortunately...we see that all over the place. There is no such thing as loyalty(or very little of it) in sports at any level these days. And IF my way doesn't work immediately, I am still willing to bet it will..quicker than the "traditional" way would. It's just accelerating the timeline.
It's like an Iphone...every time a new one comes out, EVERYONE gets in line to get one. People want the "latest and greatest". In this scenario, MU would be the "latest and greatest". If said Coach can do it at a University that doesn't have everything that this MU would have, then they certainly should be able to do it at MU with EVERYTHING at their disposal.
Is it guaranteed?? Life isn't guaranteed. But I'm 99.9% sure MU would win multiple National titles quicker this way then the "typical" school would. And the thing is, IF you stay on top of things(always advancing etc), you COULD run into a situation where you win many consecutive National titles, to where it's unprecedented.
And your way(which is many others), what happens when that doesn't work out after you have tried and tried and tried every 6-7 years you're changing Coaches?? My way would be a MAJOR acceleration of that "time line". Let's put it this way, if the way I propose didn't work in say 3-4 years, you can change course MUCH quicker.
I'm not a patient person...with anything, not just MU basketball. The older I get, even less so. I don't have the time or inclination to wait another 20 years to see if MU can win multiple national titles.
So you're suggestion is to pay a guy who may have done well at another school but has done bumpkus for your school, 3 million more a year than the best coach in college basketball. And if the new guy can't replicate his success at the past school, you're stuck paying him millions and you will expect us to pay the next guy the same 12 million a year....I know you're not an alum, but surely you must realize that's not a responsible use of funds. Coach K worked his way up to 9 million a year after over 35 years of winning at Duke. No school is going to or should pay that level of salary to a guy who has done nothing for their school.
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So you're suggestion is to pay a guy who may have done well at another school but has done bumpkus for your school, 3 million more a year than the best coach in college basketball. And if the new guy can't replicate his success at the past school, you're stuck paying him millions and you will expect us to pay the next guy the same 12 million a year....I know you're not an alum, but surely you must realize that's not a responsible use of funds. Coach K worked his way up to 9 million a year after over 35 years of winning at Duke. No school is going to or should pay that level of salary to a guy who has done nothing for their school.
Schools pay more $$ than they have ever paid a Coach at their school before to get them to become their Coach..that's what lures them to that school. Also, don't you think the odds would be very good they would work out since they did at X school with a lot less resources than they would have at MU(under my vision), with 5 star recruits falling into your lap because of the top notch everything you have(best everything in college BB)?? I'd be willing to bet it would work...quickly.
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Schools pay more $$ than they have ever paid a Coach at their school before to get them to become their Coach..that's what lures them to that school. Also, don't you think the odds would be very good they would work out since they did at X school with a lot less resources than they would have at MU(under my vision), with 5 star recruits falling into your lap because of the top notch everything you have(best everything in college BB)?? I'd be willing to bet it would work...quickly.
Then write a ten figure check and start throwing your weight around. Ten figures before the decimal and you can have a say in how things run. Maybe even get a Coal Lodge style building named after you. The Guru Grotto, or the Iceman Chalet.
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If you pay enough...I think a big name Coach will come. "xxx pays what, 9 Million per year?? Okay, we will pay 12 million a year". Money talks unfortunately...we see that all over the place. There is no such thing as loyalty(or very little of it) in sports at any level these days. And IF my way doesn't work immediately, I am still willing to bet it will..quicker than the "traditional" way would. It's just accelerating the timeline.
It's like an Iphone...every time a new one comes out, EVERYONE gets in line to get one. People want the "latest and greatest". In this scenario, MU would be the "latest and greatest". If said Coach can do it at a University that doesn't have everything that this MU would have, then they certainly should be able to do it at MU with EVERYTHING at their disposal.
Is it guaranteed?? Life isn't guaranteed. But I'm 99.9% sure MU would win multiple National titles quicker this way then the "typical" school would. And the thing is, IF you stay on top of things(always advancing etc), you COULD run into a situation where you win many consecutive National titles, to where it's unprecedented.
And your way(which is many others), what happens when that doesn't work out after you have tried and tried and tried every 6-7 years you're changing Coaches?? My way would be a MAJOR acceleration of that "time line". Let's put it this way, if the way I propose didn't work in say 3-4 years, you can change course MUCH quicker.
I'm not a patient person...with anything, not just MU basketball. The older I get, even less so. I don't have the time or inclination to wait another 20 years to see if MU can win multiple national titles.
You need to become fan of another school, because that scenario is NEVER going to happen at MU.
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Then write a ten figure check and start throwing your weight around. Ten figures before the decimal and you can have a say in how things run. Maybe even get a Coal Lodge style building named after you. The Guru Grotto, or the Iceman Chalet.
If MU shared my vision, and was willing to do it...I'd take care of them...but obviously they don't when they turned down a "free" Coal lodge. That literally could have/likely would have taken the program and recruiting to the next level...and you just "ignore it". Absolutely stupid decision.
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If you pay enough...I think a big name Coach will come. "xxx pays what, 9 Million per year?? Okay, we will pay 12 million a year". Money talks unfortunately...we see that all over the place. There is no such thing as loyalty(or very little of it) in sports at any level these days. And IF my way doesn't work immediately, I am still willing to bet it will..quicker than the "traditional" way would. It's just accelerating the timeline.
It's like an Iphone...every time a new one comes out, EVERYONE gets in line to get one. People want the "latest and greatest". In this scenario, MU would be the "latest and greatest". If said Coach can do it at a University that doesn't have everything that this MU would have, then they certainly should be able to do it at MU with EVERYTHING at their disposal.
Is it guaranteed?? Life isn't guaranteed. But I'm 99.9% sure MU would win multiple National titles quicker this way then the "typical" school would. And the thing is, IF you stay on top of things(always advancing etc), you COULD run into a situation where you win many consecutive National titles, to where it's unprecedented.
And your way(which is many others), what happens when that doesn't work out after you have tried and tried and tried every 6-7 years you're changing Coaches?? My way would be a MAJOR acceleration of that "time line". Let's put it this way, if the way I propose didn't work in say 3-4 years, you can change course MUCH quicker.
I'm not a patient person...with anything, not just MU basketball. The older I get, even less so. I don't have the time or inclination to wait another 20 years to see if MU can win multiple national titles.
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Bad example, people are no longer getting in line to get a new one because they last longer than ever. Same for cars.
I also always love it when alums and non alums throw around “just open up the wallet” and pay them whatever.....real easy spending other people’s money, eh Guru? This is a university, not a professional sports franchise. There are many other things competing for capital, G&A, etc that don’t involve athletics and never will.
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You need to become fan of another school, because that scenario is NEVER going to happen at MU.
Nailed it and been saying this for a long time. There is a massive disconnect with some people here and terra firma, as in the reality gap is so large it is breathtaking. I just laugh at the comedy some are throwing around....and it is comedy. Not only is what Guru and others are hoping for not going to happen at MU ever, they aren’t happening at 99.99999% of any schools out there.
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What happens when you do all that and the big name coach still doesn't come? Because we would probably get someone good but not the level you'd be hoping for.
What happens when you do hire someone good and then the results are still mediocre? Just because you hire someone who was good in the past doesn't mean that they will work at the next position.
You seem to believe that if you throw enough money at the program they will be successful. I've watched TU just down the road from me follow that strategy for years and they just continually spin their wheels in both football and basketball. Money helps but the only that works is continued and sustained success which requires patience. There is no substitute for it.
What will actually attract the top coaches is showing loyalty to your current coach, extend his contract when deserved, and increase his salary when deserved to the point where that coach becomes one of the highest paid coaches by a decent margin. You don't start there because then your stuck paying millions of dollars to a coach that may not pan out.
You accused me of not thinking big(which is the biggest fallacy there is, but whatever), now i come up with the biggest of big, and you pick that apart too. You can't possibly think bigger then the vision I have...so what exactly do you want??
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If MU shared my vision, and was willing to do it...I'd take care of them...but obviously they don't when they turned down a "free" Coal lodge. That literally could have/likely would have taken the program and recruiting to the next level...and you just "ignore it". Absolutely stupid decision.
Wasn't this donation you're referring to contingent on something? I thought I recalled that some big name donor tried doing that.
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You need to become fan of another school, because that scenario is NEVER going to happen at MU.
And here we are back to the "you need to be realistic" drum beating. Yet, OTHER people talk about MU winning Multiple National Championships at MU as being the goal(which it should be), but people don't pile on them for that. Talk about hypocritical.
You're the one that should become a fan of another school(DePaul is probably fitting), since you seem to have this "small time" mentality when it comes to MU.
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I have this image of Guru as Dr. Evil demanding a billion billion dollars be spent on the program and coach....anything short of that means you aren’t a visionary, not a true fan, and just don’t get it.
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If MU shared my vision, and was willing to do it...I'd take care of them...but obviously they don't when they turned down a "free" Coal lodge. That literally could have/likely would have taken the program and recruiting to the next level...and you just "ignore it". Absolutely stupid decision.
How do you know they don't? Have you called Dr Lovell or Bill Scholl and told them you would like to discuss a $10,000,000+ donation?
Lovell: (414) 288-7223
Scholl: (414) 288-6303
I'm sure if you are serious about the monetary figure, they will be willing to discuss it further.
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Wasn't this donation you're referring to contingent on something? I thought I recalled that some big name donor tried doing that.
Nope...just accepting it..wasn't contingent on anything from what I understand. Lovell just kept putting him off, until he got tired of waiting, and pulled the offer. Can't blame the donor. But, I suppose some here would justify that as saying Lovell did the right thing.
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You accused me of not thinking big(which is the biggest fallacy there is, but whatever), now i come up with the biggest of big, and you pick that apart too. You can't possibly think bigger then the vision I have...so what exactly do you want??
Because throwing money at a problem is small time thinking. The smallest time thinking. Look at the most successful programs. They got there by consistent success built over time. Not by throwing an irresponsible amount of money at program with a potential to bankrupt the university.
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Kentucky has their coal lodge....it works great for their one year on campus....the guys barely have time to unpack their boxes....
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The last page in this thread have been coffee-spitting funny
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Because throwing money at a problem is small time thinking. The smallest time thinking. Look at the most successful programs. They got there by consistent success built over time. Not by throwing an irresponsible amount of money at program with a potential to bankrupt the university.
Oh I could have fun with this one........throwing money at problems.....but I won’t
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How do you know they don't? Have you called Dr Lovell or Bill Scholl and told them you would like to discuss a $10,000,000+ donation?
Lovell: (414) 288-7223
Scholl: (414) 288-6303
I'm sure if you are serious about the monetary figure, they will be willing to discuss it further.
There's proof they wouldn't...Lovell turned down a donor building a Coal lodge all on his dime..someone explain that logic??
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And here we are back to the "you need to be realistic" drum beating. Yet, OTHER people talk about MU winning Multiple National Championships at MU as being the goal(which it should be), but people don't pile on them for that. Talk about hypocritical.
You're the one that should become a fan of another school(DePaul is probably fitting), since you seem to have this "small time" mentality when it comes to MU.
You're mixing things up again. No one is saying Marquette being elite isn't realistic. They're saying your plan of paying a coach 12 million a year and spending hundreds of millions on dollars (in addition to what we already spend) on the basketball program is not realistic.
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There's proof they wouldn't...Lovell turned down a donor building a Coal lodge all on his dime..someone explain that logic??
I believe you are conflating two stories. I also believe this is information that came from a site that prefers stuff like this not broadcast elsewhere.
Regardless, make the calls. You don't know until you offer to write that $10,000,000+ check what vision they have and if they might share more of yours than you realize. After all, if you truly care that much about Marquette being elite, what better way could you show it?
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Because throwing money at a problem is small time thinking. The smallest time thinking. Look at the most successful programs. They got there by consistent success built over time. Not by throwing an irresponsible amount of money at program with a potential to bankrupt the university.
Okay...You're right...do you feel better now?? is that what you wanted to hear?? I hope you are never the CEO of a business in your lifetime...because after having doing things the same way for 50+ years or whatever length of time, your companies equipment is getting older, not producing at the same level you used to, and your product isn't as appealing as it once was..I can hear you sitting at a table with shareholders when they ask "what are we going to do about this"..and you look at them and say "patience", that's the only way out of this...And one of them looks at you and says "we at this table are willing to invest the money in new technology and do whatever it takes to get this company back to the top again...and you look at them and say "no...we MUST just be patient, that's the ONLY way this will turn around". Smh
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You're right, but the difference is...he would have shut me up quickly, if he had the same success right away at MU as he has had at Texas Tech.
We don't know if he would have had the same kind of success. He might have sucked at Marquette. I actually don't think he would have, but he might have. And it's all besides the point because he didn't have enough experience for Marquette to seriously consider him.
You would have hated the Al McGuire hire. Not only did he suck his last 2 years at Belmont Abbey, but he sucked his first two years at Marquette. You'd have been saying, "Why can't we hire a guy who wins right away?"
Oh, and Marquette is more likely to hire an atheist as its next school president than it is to pay a basketball coach an 8-figure salary. So you can throw out a hypothetical just because, but it's silly and does nothing to advance the discussion. You might as well ask, "Why don't we bring in Superman to play power forward for us?" It's no less likely, no less ridiculous.
guru, I love your passion about MU hoops, and we agree on more than you might think, but you really need to get a grip sometimes.
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Okay...You're right...do you feel better now?? is that what you wanted to hear?? I hope you are never the CEO of a business in your lifetime...because after having doing things the same way for 50+ years or whatever length of time, your companies equipment is getting older, not producing at the same level you used to, and your product isn't as appealing as it once was..I can hear you sitting at a table with shareholders when they ask "what are we going to do about this"..and you look at them and say "patience", that's the only way out of this...And one of them looks at you and says "we at this table are willing to invest the money in new technology and do whatever it takes to get this company back to the top again...and you look at them and say "no...we MUST just be patient, that's the ONLY way this will turn around". Smh
SMH at that analogy. Using depreciated equipment as the comparison.....awesome. LOL
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SMH at that analogy. Using depreciated equipment as the comparison.....awesome. LOL
The premise is exactly the same and you know it...it's absolutely spot on the same. TAMU's "patience" argument when there are other ways to try to be successful at anything...but his answer for everything will always be "patience". I wonder if his paycheck is ever late sometime and he asks his boss what the deal is, and his boss looks at him and says "patience, that's the only way you will get your paycheck", if he'd shrug his shoulders and say "ok"?? Hilarious to envision that scenario.
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The premise is exactly the same and you know it...it's absolutely spot on the same. TAMU's "patience" argument when there are other ways to try to be successful at anything...but his answer for everything will always be "patience". I wonder if his paycheck is ever late sometime and he asks his boss what the deal is, and his boss looks at him and says "patience, that's the only way you will get your paycheck", if he'd shrug his shoulders and say "ok"?? Hilarious to envision that scenario.
It is in no way exactly the same...and I do know it....which is why I am laughing and shaking my damn head at the ridiculous analogy you came up with.
To use your analogy would mean MU failed to build the Al, decided not to pony up more money to play at Fiserv and instead is playing at a lesser facility. That would have been a more appropriate comparison using your equipment analogy, but it would have exposed your argument completely.
Wojo is a salaried employee, one that has improved on his results since he has been here. Including best attendance this past season in years. Including an All American playing for us, wins on the court, national rankings along with players minding their p’s and q’s.
Try again....
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Okay...You're right...do you feel better now?? is that what you wanted to hear?? I hope you are never the CEO of a business in your lifetime...because after having doing things the same way for 50+ years or whatever length of time, your companies equipment is getting older, not producing at the same level you used to, and your product isn't as appealing as it once was..I can hear you sitting at a table with shareholders when they ask "what are we going to do about this"..and you look at them and say "patience", that's the only way out of this...And one of them looks at you and says "we at this table are willing to invest the money in new technology and do whatever it takes to get this company back to the top again...and you look at them and say "no...we MUST just be patient, that's the ONLY way this will turn around". Smh
What does this scenario have to do with Marquette basketball? We're producing better than when he took over.
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What does this scenario have to do with Marquette basketball? We're producing better than when he took over.
One year...ONE was worse, and everyone wants to use that as the baseline for how good Wojo is doing, and completely ignoring the previous years of sweet 16, sweet 16, Elite 8 etc. Amazing how people don't even want to talk about that and use THAT in comparison to Wojo's tenure. The absolute fairest way to compare is to compare it to Crean's first 5 years at MU, and then Buzz's first five years. That's the only apples to apples comparison there is...but of course we won't use that because well...that defeats the argument, right?? 10 years from now the results could be approximately the same and TAMU will be leading the "patience, Wojo will get there refrain".
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One year...ONE was worse, and everyone wants to use that as the baseline for how good Wojo is doing, and completely ignoring the previous years of sweet 16, sweet 16, Elite 8 etc. Amazing how people don't even want to talk about that and use THAT in comparison to Wojo's tenure. The absolute fairest way to compare is to compare it to Crean's first 5 years at MU, and then Buzz's first five years. That's the only apples to apples comparison there is...but of course we won't use that because well...that defeats the argument, right?? 10 years from now the results could be approximately the same and TAMU will be leading the "patience, Wojo will get there refrain".
Nobody wants to do the first years of Buzz because the big 3, Lazar, and Cubi were all Crean players. Using the 2011, 12 and 13 years is fair. But we were a better team last year than 2011 and maybe in 2017 as well. 12 and 13 were two of the 3 best teams we've had since we lost to Miami of ohio.
Nobody wants to do the first years of Crean because even though CUSA was a great conference in those days, its a far cry from the Big East.
They aren't exactly apples to apples comparisons.
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One year...ONE was worse, and everyone wants to use that as the baseline for how good Wojo is doing, and completely ignoring the previous years of sweet 16, sweet 16, Elite 8 etc. Amazing how people don't even want to talk about that and use THAT in comparison to Wojo's tenure. The absolute fairest way to compare is to compare it to Crean's first 5 years at MU, and then Buzz's first five years. That's the only apples to apples comparison there is...but of course we won't use that because well...that defeats the argument, right?? 10 years from now the results could be approximately the same and TAMU will be leading the "patience, Wojo will get there refrain".
What do the past years have to do with Wojo's starting point? He didn't get to bring back Vander Blue, Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, and Davante Gardner.
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One year...ONE was worse, and everyone wants to use that as the baseline for how good Wojo is doing, and completely ignoring the previous years of sweet 16, sweet 16, Elite 8 etc. Amazing how people don't even want to talk about that and use THAT in comparison to Wojo's tenure. The absolute fairest way to compare is to compare it to Crean's first 5 years at MU, and then Buzz's first five years. That's the only apples to apples comparison there is...but of course we won't use that because well...that defeats the argument, right?? 10 years from now the results could be approximately the same and TAMU will be leading the "patience, Wojo will get there refrain".
Buzz was very successful with junior collage all-Americans, which I believe Wojo is not allowed to recruit. Image Buzz's teams without Crowder, Butler, DJO and Buycks.
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What do the past years have to do with Wojo's starting point? He didn't get to bring back Vander Blue, Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, and Davante Gardner.
You Wojo supporters just LOVE using what he inherited as your "crutch" to somehow justify what an incredibly amazing wonder kind of a Coach he is. It's always something...there will always be some sort of an excuse, the pedestal you all put him on is like nothing I have ever seen before. It's so extreme that it's almost like you all treat it like the program had been D2 at that time, and he quickly elevated it to respectable D1 status so quickly.
I will tell you a story...when he was first hired, I loved it from a recruiting perspective, thought he'd do very well in that area. I was skeptical of how good of a Coach he would ever be, but I was willing to give him a chance, because after all he was MU's new Head Coach, and since I love MU BB, I was "all in" with him. Then that first year something happened that "lost me" to the point that he was from a Coaching standpoint going to have to earn his way back with me. What was that "thing"?? Losing at home...to Omaha. And that was a game that he got 17...yes 17 points from Derrick Wilson(when he scores 17, which is like winning the lottery odds wise, you should NEVER lose, especially at home to a low major that had just transitioned to D1)...and they gave up 97 points and lost by 8. Will NEVER forget that, and from that point forward, it, to me, verified all the skepticism I had about him as a Coach.
Because of that, he has a ways to go to with me, to get me back to the point where I'm a full supporter of him again. From that time until now, he hasn't done enough to show me that...yet. The good thing is, he is obviously going to have more time to get me back on board, and I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about him, and he leads MU to the place(s), a vast majority of us want them to go. Here's hoping.
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You Wojo supporters just LOVE using what he inherited as your "crutch" to somehow justify what an incredibly amazing wonder kind of a Coach he is. It's always something...there will always be some sort of an excuse, the pedestal you all put him on is like nothing I have ever seen before. It's so extreme that it's almost like you all treat it like the program had been D2 at that time, and he quickly elevated it to respectable D1 status so quickly.
I will tell you a story...when he was first hired, I loved it from a recruiting perspective, thought he'd do very well in that area. I was skeptical of how good of a Coach he would ever be, but I was willing to give him a chance, because after all he was MU's new Head Coach, and since I love MU BB, I was "all in" with him. Then that first year something happened that "lost me" to the point that he was from a Coaching standpoint going to have to earn his way back with me. What was that "thing"?? Losing at home...to Omaha. And that was a game that he got 17...yes 17 points from Derrick Wilson(when he scores 17, which is like winning the lottery odds wise, you should NEVER lose, especially at home to a low major that had just transitioned to D1)...and they gave up 97 points and lost by 8. Will NEVER forget that, and from that point forward, it, to me, verified all the skepticism I had about him as a Coach.
Because of that, he has a ways to go to with me, to get me back to the point where I'm a full supporter of him again. From that time until now, he hasn't done enough to show me that...yet. The good thing is, he is obviously going to have more time to get me back on board, and I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about him, and he leads MU to the place(s), a vast majority of us want them to go. Here's hoping.
I’m sure Wojo is losing sleep wondering how he’s going to get you on board. I heard it’s the only reason he agreed to the extension in the first place.
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You Wojo supporters just LOVE using what he inherited as your "crutch" to somehow justify what an incredibly amazing wonder kind of a Coach he is. It's always something...there will always be some sort of an excuse, the pedestal you all put him on is like nothing I have ever seen before. It's so extreme that it's almost like you all treat it like the program had been D2 at that time, and he quickly elevated it to respectable D1 status so quickly.
I will tell you a story...when he was first hired, I loved it from a recruiting perspective, thought he'd do very well in that area. I was skeptical of how good of a Coach he would ever be, but I was willing to give him a chance, because after all he was MU's new Head Coach, and since I love MU BB, I was "all in" with him. Then that first year something happened that "lost me" to the point that he was from a Coaching standpoint going to have to earn his way back with me. What was that "thing"?? Losing at home...to Omaha. And that was a game that he got 17...yes 17 points from Derrick Wilson(when he scores 17, which is like winning the lottery odds wise, you should NEVER lose, especially at home to a low major that had just transitioned to D1)...and they gave up 97 points and lost by 8. Will NEVER forget that, and from that point forward, it, to me, verified all the skepticism I had about him as a Coach.
Because of that, he has a ways to go to with me, to get me back to the point where I'm a full supporter of him again. From that time until now, he hasn't done enough to show me that...yet. The good thing is, he is obviously going to have more time to get me back on board, and I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about him, and he leads MU to the place(s), a vast majority of us want them to go. Here's hoping.
Come on Iceman, get a grip here.
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I’m sure Wojo is losing sleep wondering how he’s going to get you on board. I heard it’s the only reason he agreed to the extension in the first place.
See, it doesn't matter what i post or respond to on this board, SOMEONE will take a shot at it. Someone else posts this exact same thing, that isn't me, it doesn't get replied to. I guess people that support Wojo have their reasons why they do, and we are all just supposed to accept that, but I can't have reasons for NOT supporting him, and I get taken to task for it. All I was conveying is why I(me, not you, not chicos, not any one else has to share that opinion/feeling) became skeptical of Wojo. is that okay with you??
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What do the past years have to do with Wojo's starting point? He didn't get to bring back Vander Blue, Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, and Davante Gardner.
You Wojo supporters just LOVE using what he inherited as your "crutch" to somehow justify what an incredibly amazing wonder kind of a Coach he is. It's always something...there will always be some sort of an excuse, the pedestal you all put him on is like nothing I have ever seen before. It's so extreme that it's almost like you all treat it like the program had been D2 at that time, and he quickly elevated it to respectable D1 status so quickly.
I will tell you a story...when he was first hired, I loved it from a recruiting perspective, thought he'd do very well in that area. I was skeptical of how good of a Coach he would ever be, but I was willing to give him a chance, because after all he was MU's new Head Coach, and since I love MU BB, I was "all in" with him. Then that first year something happened that "lost me" to the point that he was from a Coaching standpoint going to have to earn his way back with me. What was that "thing"?? Losing at home...to Omaha. And that was a game that he got 17...yes 17 points from Derrick Wilson(when he scores 17, which is like winning the lottery odds wise, you should NEVER lose, especially at home to a low major that had just transitioned to D1)...and they gave up 97 points and lost by 8. Will NEVER forget that, and from that point forward, it, to me, verified all the skepticism I had about him as a Coach.
Because of that, he has a ways to go to with me, to get me back to the point where I'm a full supporter of him again. From that time until now, he hasn't done enough to show me that...yet. The good thing is, he is obviously going to have more time to get me back on board, and I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about him, and he leads MU to the place(s), a vast majority of us want them to go. Here's hoping.
So nothing. Thanks for clearing that up.
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See, it doesn't matter what i post or respond to on this board, SOMEONE will take a shot at it. Someone else posts this exact same thing, that isn't me, it doesn't get replied to. I guess people that support Wojo have their reasons why they do, and we are all just supposed to accept that, but I can't have reasons for NOT supporting him, and I get taken to task for it. All I was conveying is why I(me, not you, not chicos, not any one else has to share that opinion/feeling) became skeptical of Wojo. is that okay with you??
You’re easy to poke fun of because you seem to be so irrationally angry in your posts. Every one of them says essentially the same thing, but you still manage to make it a three paragraph rant.
Have a drink. Find a woman. Or a guy if that’s your thing. Take up wood working. Maybe take a month off or something. It’s just basketball.
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Guru, I had worries about Wojo when he arrived. Only ever in one system. How would he adapt to being at Not-Duke? Never been in the big chair. I still have not seen one team either out perform or under my expectations for that specific season. I must be getting better at predictions. He has not yet made a team more than the sum of it's parts. When things went bad early, he got an angry little boy look on his face that I found off-putting. He speaks in coach speak cliches.
But he has won 84 games the last 4 years. He improved the defense last year. He has found grad transfers every year. Chartouny wasn't good, but the others were decent. He has developed players. He has been the boy scout the powers wanted. And, most importantly for me, I think he has a high ceiling. If you got your wish and he was fired tomorrow, he would be coaching at a high major in 20-21. He would be the guy other fanbases want.
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So nothing. Thanks for clearing that up.
And why do you and others always like to use that as your "fallback" with him, to justify his "success" to this point. If past years have nothing to do with Wojo's starting point, then why does his starting point have anything to do with now?? That was 6 years ago...he has had 1 and a half recruiting cycles since. At some point you have to let go of "look at what he started with". That's gone, it's irrelevant. You spew this utter nonsense about how you think big, yet here you are willingly accepting his mediocre results to this point because you're "patient". BS, absolute total crock of you know what. It's small time thinking TAMU, think bigger! Thinking big should be not wanting your alma mater following the same path as everyone else shouldn't it?? Thinking big would wanting them/expecting them to be the exception, not the norm, right?? That's thinking BIG TIME.
Tell me TAMU, 10 years from now if Wojo hasn't really moved the program forward from where it is now, are you still going to be spewing your "patience" nonsense?? I have absolutely zero doubt you will be.
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Guru, I had worries about Wojo when he arrived. Only ever in one system. How would he adapt to being at Not-Duke? Never been in the big chair. I still have not seen one team either out perform or under my expectations for that specific season. I must be getting better at predictions. He has not yet made a team more than the sum of it's parts. When things went bad early, he got an angry little boy look on his face that I found off-putting. He speaks in coach speak cliches.
But he has won 84 games the last 4 years. He improved the defense last year. He has found grad transfers every year. Chartouny wasn't good, but the others were decent. He has developed players. He has been the boy scout the powers wanted. And, mot importantly for me, I think he has a high ceiling. If you got your wish and he was fired tomorrow, he would be coaching at a high major in 20-21. He would be the guy other fanbases want.
Yeah, lessor D1 programs...I'm sure a program like Missouri, or Wake Forest, or Dayton, or or Boston College or someone like that would love to have him, and understandably so, for them that would be a real coup. For MU Wojo should be the type of Coach that's considered solid, but not considered a coup.
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You’re easy to poke fun of because you seem to be so irrationally angry in your posts. Every one of them says essentially the same thing, but you still manage to make it a three paragraph rant.
Have a drink. Find a woman. Or a guy if that’s your thing. Take up wood working. Maybe take a month off or something. It’s just basketball.
Wojo told his guys to "play angry", I was so motivated by that, I post "angry". ;D
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One year...ONE was worse, and everyone wants to use that as the baseline for how good Wojo is doing, and completely ignoring the previous years of sweet 16, sweet 16, Elite 8 etc. Amazing how people don't even want to talk about that and use THAT in comparison to Wojo's tenure. The absolute fairest way to compare is to compare it to Crean's first 5 years at MU, and then Buzz's first five years. That's the only apples to apples comparison there is...but of course we won't use that because well...that defeats the argument, right?? 10 years from now the results could be approximately the same and TAMU will be leading the "patience, Wojo will get there refrain".
Hmm, let’s see....Crean left Buzzard a bunch of talent and that’s not what Wojo inherited. Could that be part of it?
Does Wojo get the same latitude of types of players to bring in as result of how Buzzard’s crew blew that one? Nope.
So what else you got since you want to make comparisons that are comparing apples to leopard spotted panties instead of other apples.
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You Wojo supporters just LOVE using what he inherited as your "crutch" to somehow justify what an incredibly amazing wonder kind of a Coach he is. It's always something...there will always be some sort of an excuse, the pedestal you all put him on is like nothing I have ever seen before. It's so extreme that it's almost like you all treat it like the program had been D2 at that time, and he quickly elevated it to respectable D1 status so quickly.
I will tell you a story...when he was first hired, I loved it from a recruiting perspective, thought he'd do very well in that area. I was skeptical of how good of a Coach he would ever be, but I was willing to give him a chance, because after all he was MU's new Head Coach, and since I love MU BB, I was "all in" with him. Then that first year something happened that "lost me" to the point that he was from a Coaching standpoint going to have to earn his way back with me. What was that "thing"?? Losing at home...to Omaha. And that was a game that he got 17...yes 17 points from Derrick Wilson(when he scores 17, which is like winning the lottery odds wise, you should NEVER lose, especially at home to a low major that had just transitioned to D1)...and they gave up 97 points and lost by 8. Will NEVER forget that, and from that point forward, it, to me, verified all the skepticism I had about him as a Coach.
Because of that, he has a ways to go to with me, to get me back to the point where I'm a full supporter of him again. From that time until now, he hasn't done enough to show me that...yet. The good thing is, he is obviously going to have more time to get me back on board, and I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about him, and he leads MU to the place(s), a vast majority of us want them to go. Here's hoping.
Lol.
Yeah, we reasoned individuals who deal with facts and common sense can see what rosters each coach inherited and use that data to make an informed opinion. How dare us.
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Good lord, you an idiot, please stop posting.
You Wojo supporters just LOVE using what he inherited as your "crutch" to somehow justify what an incredibly amazing wonder kind of a Coach he is. It's always something...there will always be some sort of an excuse, the pedestal you all put him on is like nothing I have ever seen before. It's so extreme that it's almost like you all treat it like the program had been D2 at that time, and he quickly elevated it to respectable D1 status so quickly.
I will tell you a story...when he was first hired, I loved it from a recruiting perspective, thought he'd do very well in that area. I was skeptical of how good of a Coach he would ever be, but I was willing to give him a chance, because after all he was MU's new Head Coach, and since I love MU BB, I was "all in" with him. Then that first year something happened that "lost me" to the point that he was from a Coaching standpoint going to have to earn his way back with me. What was that "thing"?? Losing at home...to Omaha. And that was a game that he got 17...yes 17 points from Derrick Wilson(when he scores 17, which is like winning the lottery odds wise, you should NEVER lose, especially at home to a low major that had just transitioned to D1)...and they gave up 97 points and lost by 8. Will NEVER forget that, and from that point forward, it, to me, verified all the skepticism I had about him as a Coach.
Because of that, he has a ways to go to with me, to get me back to the point where I'm a full supporter of him again. From that time until now, he hasn't done enough to show me that...yet. The good thing is, he is obviously going to have more time to get me back on board, and I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about him, and he leads MU to the place(s), a vast majority of us want them to go. Here's hoping.
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Wojo told his guys to "play angry", I was so motivated by that, I post "angry". ;D
Touché
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Hmm, let’s see....Crean left Buzzard a bunch of talent and that’s not what Wojo inherited. Could that be part of it?
Does Wojo get the same latitude of types of players to bring in as result of how Buzzard’s crew blew that one? Nope.
So what else you got since you want to make comparisons that are comparing apples to leopard spotted panties instead of other apples.
That was 6 years ago...6...are you going to continue to use that as your fallback?? Not one single player that Wojo inherited still plays for MU. Not a single one. Hard to believe isn't it?? As i was told...move on. This isn't Wojo's first year anymore, he's had his own recruiting classes since...FULL recruiting classes. And yet, he hasn't won a single NCAA game(oh yeah, crapshoot, I forgot), hasn't won a conference title, a BE tourney title, nothing of consequence to this point. I know, that's on Buzz for what Wojo inherited 6 years ago. Next year will be on Buzz, and the year after, and the year after..It will always be because what Wojo inherited. I get it.
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And why do you and others always like to use that as your "fallback" with him, to justify his "success" to this point. If past years have nothing to do with Wojo's starting point, then why does his starting point have anything to do with now?? That was 6 years ago...he has had 1 and a half recruiting cycles since. At some point you have to let go of "look at what he started with". That's gone, it's irrelevant. You spew this utter nonsense about how you think big, yet here you are willingly accepting his mediocre results to this point because you're "patient". BS, absolute total crock of you know what. It's small time thinking TAMU, think bigger! Thinking big should be not wanting your alma mater following the same path as everyone else shouldn't it?? Thinking big would wanting them/expecting them to be the exception, not the norm, right?? That's thinking BIG TIME.
Tell me TAMU, 10 years from now if Wojo hasn't really moved the program forward from where it is now, are you still going to be spewing your "patience" nonsense?? I have absolutely zero doubt you will be.
Did you write your check yet?
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That was 6 years ago...6...are you going to continue to use that as your fallback?? Not one single player that Wojo inherited still plays for MU. Not a single one. Hard to believe isn't it?? As i was told...move on. This isn't Wojo's first year anymore, he's had his own recruiting classes since...FULL recruiting classes. And yet, he hasn't won a single NCAA game(oh yeah, crapshoot, I forgot), hasn't won a conference title, a BE tourney title, nothing of consequence to this point. I know, that's on Buzz for what Wojo inherited 6 years ago. Next year will be on Buzz, and the year after, and the year after..It will always be because what Wojo inherited. I get it.
YOU are the one that keeps bringing up the early years, you have been shown to be out of your element by many of us.
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YOU are the one that keeps bringing up the early years, you have been shown to be out of your element by many of us.
Whatever, anytime anyone mentions Wojo and doesn't support him you play the "look what Buzz left him with" card. You will still be doing that, 5 years from now, even though it will be just as irrelevant than as it is now.
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Did you write your check yet?
As I have stated, since you are obviously not good at following along, or you are just slow..when/if the administration, decides they want to share my vision or something similar, I will absolutely help them out. 100% fact. Any justification why Lovell turned down(or kept putting off until he pulled out) a donor that was willing to write the entire check for MU's version of the "coal lodge"?? Does that sound like an administration that will ever have the vision necessary??
What's DePaul looking like next year??
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Whatever, anytime anyone mentions Wojo and doesn't support him you play the "look what Buzz left him with" card. You will still be doing that, 5 years from now, even though it will be just as irrelevant than as it is now.
Nope, only if someone like you makes a ridiculous comparison of how long it took or why did Buzz do well year one vs Wojo...gee, could to be the rosters?
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As I have stated, since you are obviously not good at following along, or you are just slow..when/if the administration, decides they want to share my vision or something similar, I will absolutely help them out. 100% fact. Any justification why Lovell turned down(or kept putting off until he pulled out) a donor that was willing to write the entire check for MU's version of the "coal lodge"?? Does that sound like an administration that will ever have the vision necessary??
What's DePaul looking like next year??
Hmm, the last time we had our own version of the coal lodge under previous coach, what happened? I’m sure that was part of the thinking and analysis if your story is even true. Marquette preaches community and nothing screams community by isolating the basketball team away from most other students....you know like some of the dirtier programs in the country do. Great idea.
Now, a few minutes ago you said I was crafty because I say something that cannot be proven right or wrong. Hmm, can you prove what you just stated is true, that there was ever a donor that offered such money let alone for the goal which you derived? If you cannot, how are you any different than the crafty charge you made earlier?
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As I have stated, since you are obviously not good at following along, or you are just slow..when/if the administration, decides they want to share my vision or something similar, I will absolutely help them out. 100% fact. Any justification why Lovell turned down(or kept putting off until he pulled out) a donor that was willing to write the entire check for MU's version of the "coal lodge"?? Does that sound like an administration that will ever have the vision necessary??
What's DePaul looking like next year??
Have you reached out to the admin to discuss your vision?
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That was 6 years ago...6...are you going to continue to use that as your fallback?? Not one single player that Wojo inherited still plays for MU. Not a single one. Hard to believe isn't it?? As i was told...move on. This isn't Wojo's first year anymore, he's had his own recruiting classes since...FULL recruiting classes. And yet, he hasn't won a single NCAA game(oh yeah, crapshoot, I forgot), hasn't won a conference title, a BE tourney title, nothing of consequence to this point. I know, that's on Buzz for what Wojo inherited 6 years ago. Next year will be on Buzz, and the year after, and the year after..It will always be because what Wojo inherited. I get it.
I don't need a fallback. The past three seasons have been successful. Not as an end goal but as a first step. The starting point explains the need for a two year rebuild. Try to keep up Guru.
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I don't need a fallback. The past three seasons have been successful. Not as an end goal but as a first step. The starting point explains the need for a two year rebuild. Try to keep up Guru.
The NEED for a rebuild? So now we are going to use that crutch too? As I have said MANY times..and it HAS been proven MANY times(you cite similar with your patience refrain) programs do NOT automatically have to have rebuilds when a new Coach is brought in. It all depends on who the hire is.
Go check Alabama and what Nate Oates has done..New coach..new school..tell me if you think he's "rebuilding". They are going to be better than they were last year..but yet..according to you..rebuilds are almost a given when a new coach takes over..or..maybe, just maybe rebuilds occur based on who the coach is that's hired? Nah..can't be, right?
Try to keep up TAMU!
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Hmm, the last time we had our own version of the coal lodge under previous coach, what happened? I’m sure that was part of the thinking and analysis if your story is even true. Marquette preaches community and nothing screams community by isolating the basketball team away from most other students....you know like some of the dirtier programs in the country do. Great idea.
Now, a few minutes ago you said I was crafty because I say something that cannot be proven right or wrong. Hmm, can you prove what you just stated is true, that there was ever a donor that offered such money let alone for the goal which you derived? If you cannot, how are you any different than the crafty charge you made earlier?
That wasn't anywhere close to a "coal" lodge..if you wanna know what one is..go look it up..it's what Kentucky has..and you will also see that by rule..a certain % of "normal" students have to occupy it as well.
So not only did Lovell ruin a chance to give the basketball program an advantage few others in the country have, but he also torpedoed a chance for some normal MU students to have an opportunity to have a great experience as well. And alienated the donor on top of that..well played Dr Lovell!
As far as my info goes..i have no problem sharing that with you..none whatsoever..in exchange for your source that told you a rape "definitely" occurred. That seems reasonable, agreed?
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The NEED for a rebuild? So now we are going to use that crutch too? As I have said MANY times..and it HAS been proven MANY times(you cite similar with your patience refrain) programs do NOT automatically have to have rebuilds when a new Coach is brought in. It all depends on who the hire is.
Go check Alabama and what Nate Oates has done..New coach..new school..tell me if you think he's "rebuilding". They are going to be better than they were last year..but yet..according to you..rebuilds are almost a given when a new coach takes over..or..maybe, just maybe rebuilds occur based on who the coach is that's hired? Nah..can't be, right?
Try to keep up TAMU!
Alabama has different academic qualifications than MU, but I am sure you knew that.
If I buy you a XXL Bama sweatshirt to start cheering for them, will you be gone?
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That wasn't anywhere close to a "coal" lodge..if you wanna know what one is..go look it up..it's what Kentucky has..and you will also see that by rule..a certain % of "normal" students have to occupy it as well.
So not only did Lovell ruin a chance to give the basketball program an advantage few others in the country have, but he also torpedoed a chance for some normal MU students to have an opportunity to have a great experience as well. And alienated the donor on top of that..well played Dr Lovell!
As far as my info goes..i have no problem sharing that with you..none whatsoever..in exchange for your source that told you a rape "definitely" occurred. That seems reasonable, agreed?
Exactly, and Buzz’s boys still screwed it up. I know exactly what is, KU where I worked and attended grad school, had one and now has one of the newer ones in the country with the latest version. Great for KU, not so great for a school like MU and others. Tends to segregate athletes from students and allows way too much privilege and crap to go on, often abused by the athletes. This is why the NCAA said enough and forced these residences to be at least 51% regular students instead of the good old days like Barry Switzer and his ilk were doing to corrupt these guys. Do you pine for those gold old days Guru?
Your credentials to run a university are what exactly? You have never worked for one, don’t know the culture, etc.
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The NEED for a rebuild? So now we are going to use that crutch too? As I have said MANY times..and it HAS been proven MANY times(you cite similar with your patience refrain) programs do NOT automatically have to have rebuilds when a new Coach is brought in. It all depends on who the hire is.
Go check Alabama and what Nate Oates has done..New coach..new school..tell me if you think he's "rebuilding". They are going to be better than they were last year..but yet..according to you..rebuilds are almost a given when a new coach takes over..or..maybe, just maybe rebuilds occur based on who the coach is that's hired? Nah..can't be, right?
Try to keep up TAMU!
Have I ever said that programs have to automatically rebuild when a new coach is hired? I'll save you the time, I haven't. I said Marquette needed a rebuild when Buzz left which is a fact.
Name a team that...
missed the NIT
lost 6/7 of its top players in minutes played
lost its coach
lost all but one player in its incoming recruiting class
...that didn't need a rebuild. Bonus points if you can find an example where the top returning player in minutes played is as bad as Derrick Wilson. Until you can successfully give an example, then you are wrong about not needing a rebuild. And even if you find one (which I doubt you can), it will be one compared to hundreds that did need to rebuild.
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As I have stated, since you are obviously not good at following along, or you are just slow..when/if the administration, decides they want to share my vision or something similar, I will absolutely help them out. 100% fact. Any justification why Lovell turned down(or kept putting off until he pulled out) a donor that was willing to write the entire check for MU's version of the "coal lodge"?? Does that sound like an administration that will ever have the vision necessary??
What's DePaul looking like next year??
I'm pretty sure you are conflating stories. It was Pilarz who refused the dorm. It was briefly discussed as a possibility in 2014 when Wojo came on board but I've seen no evidence it was refused in the last 5 years.
I provided the phone numbers. Call Lovell & Scholl. Tell them you have a $10,000,000 donation ready to go and want to discuss the possibility of an athletic dorm. I expect you will at least be able to get a meeting if you can prove you have that level of commitment.
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“My Marquette Vision”
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The NEED for a rebuild? So now we are going to use that crutch too? As I have said MANY times..and it HAS been proven MANY times(you cite similar with your patience refrain) programs do NOT automatically have to have rebuilds when a new Coach is brought in. It all depends on who the hire is.
Go check Alabama and what Nate Oates has done..New coach..new school..tell me if you think he's "rebuilding". They are going to be better than they were last year..but yet..according to you..rebuilds are almost a given when a new coach takes over..or..maybe, just maybe rebuilds occur based on who the coach is that's hired? Nah..can't be, right?
Try to keep up TAMU!
1. You would have been pissed if we had hired Oats. Not an established coach with a proven high-major record.
2. Sorry, but TAMU's response pretty much crushed you again, guru. Facts still matter.
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As I have stated, since you are obviously not good at following along, or you are just slow..when/if the administration, decides they want to share my vision or something similar, I will absolutely help them out. 100% fact. Any justification why Lovell turned down(or kept putting off until he pulled out) a donor that was willing to write the entire check for MU's version of the "coal lodge"?? Does that sound like an administration that will ever have the vision necessary??
What's DePaul looking like next year??
I'm glad he turned down that donor if the story is true. Primary athletic dorms aren't a good thing.
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I'm glad he turned down that donor if the story is true. Primary athletic dorms aren't a good thing.
::)
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I was not happy with the Wojo hire. Mainly, because I could not stand him as a player. He also was stiff compared to Buzz. I really enjoy crazy coaches like Al and Buzz. I think Wojo is less stiff now.
A five year record of 97-69 is under performing my expectations for an MU coach. He has to do better than that the next 5 years and I think he will.
I would not of agreed with firing him now. Wojo has been successful even though it was not as successful as I would of liked. There is no guarantee that a new coach would do as good as Wojo has.
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A five year record of 97-69 is under performing my expectations for an MU coach. He has to do better than that the next 5 years and I think he will.
I would not of agreed with firing him now. Wojo has been successful even though it was not as successful as I would of liked. There is no guarantee that a new coach would do as good as Wojo has.
Well said, bilsu.
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26902770/kansas-michigan-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20
Another way too early top 25 and another #23 ranking for MU (same as Andy Katz).
Notables:
#8 Villanova
#9 Maryland (potential Orlando opponent)
#13 Seton Hall
#20 Xavier
#23 Marquette
#25 USC (potential Orlando opponent)
Next in Line: Creighton
Next in Line: Georgetown
Next in Line: Davidson (potential Orlando opponent)
No mention of Providence, Butler, St. John's, Depaul, Kansas State, Texas A&M, or Wisconsin.
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Can't believe Nova would be ranked that high without the great Jahvon Quinerly.
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26902770/kansas-michigan-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20
Another way too early top 25 and another #23 ranking for MU (same as Andy Katz).
Notables:
#8 Villanova
#9 Maryland (potential Orlando opponent)
#13 Seton Hall
#20 Xavier
#23 Marquette
#25 USC (potential Orlando opponent)
Next in Line: Creighton
Next in Line: Georgetown
Next in Line: Davidson (potential Orlando opponent)
No mention of Providence, Butler, St. John's, Depaul, Kansas State, Texas A&M, or Wisconsin.
Or Purdue
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27154359/florida-makes-big-move-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20
ESPN updated their way too early top 25 again. Despite no additions to our roster, we moved up 2 spots due to "a more careful look at the roster." Which I think is the perfect way to say that. I think a lot of people reacted right away after Hausergate and assumed we were going to suck. But once you calm down and actually look at the roster, we should be really good again next season. I actually think we are a little better than #21. Think we end up somewhere between #10 and #20.
Notables:
#9 Villanova
#10 Maryland
#14 Seton Hall (also mentions that grad transfer Shakur Juiston has them on his list)
#20 Xavier
#21 Marquette
#25 USC
Next in Line: Harvard
Also interesting is that all three of the teams that dropped out of the rankings are potential opponents: Creighton, Georgetown, and Davidson.
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While I get the appeal of X (returning 4 starters and got hot down the stretch last year), top 20 seems too high for them. Keep in mind that they were still a NIT team that had a 6 game losing streak during the season capped by a 12 point home loss to DePaul. Marshall, Scruggs, Goodin, and Jones are all decent players, but Scruggs was the only one to shoot over 30% from deep (for reference Goodin and Marshall would have been the 6th and 7th best shooters on MU last year behind "worst 2 guard in the conference Sacar", and "not a Beast player Chartouny"). The returning experience should help, but I see them as more of a fringe top 25 team.
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While I get the appeal of X (returning 4 starters and got hot down the stretch last year), top 20 seems too high for them. Keep in mind that they were still a NIT team that had a 6 game losing streak during the season capped by a 12 point home loss to DePaul. Marshall, Scruggs, Goodin, and Jones are all decent players, but Scruggs was the only one to shoot over 30% from deep (for reference Goodin and Marshall would have been the 6th and 7th best shooters on MU last year behind "worst 2 guard in the conference Sacar", and "not a Beast player Chartouny"). The returning experience should help, but I see them as more of a fringe top 25 team.
Agreed. I see them as more of a top 25-35 type team than a top 25. And while they do bring back four starters, they lose every other rotation player. The three point shooting will be a big question for them. Can Marshall and Goodin improve their sub 30% 3P shooting? Can Scruggs take more shots while keeping his 3P% up? Incoming transfer Jason Carter shot a respectful 34% last season but only has 32 makes in 2 seasons. Bryce Moore could be an answer. He shot 39% and averaged 2 3s a game 2 seasons ago...but is coming off major surgery and is facing a big step up in competition. Then there's all the freshmen.
Lots of unknowns on Xavier....but with so many quality options, I think the chances are that enough of them will be pleasant surprises and lead them to a good season.
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While I get the appeal of X (returning 4 starters and got hot down the stretch last year), top 20 seems too high for them. Keep in mind that they were still a NIT team that had a 6 game losing streak during the season capped by a 12 point home loss to DePaul. Marshall, Scruggs, Goodin, and Jones are all decent players, but Scruggs was the only one to shoot over 30% from deep (for reference Goodin and Marshall would have been the 6th and 7th best shooters on MU last year behind "worst 2 guard in the conference Sacar", and "not a Beast player Chartouny"). The returning experience should help, but I see them as more of a fringe top 25 team.
Agreed. I see them as more of a top 25-35 type team than a top 25. And while they do bring back four starters, they lose every other rotation player. The three point shooting will be a big question for them. Can Marshall and Goodin improve their sub 30% 3P shooting? Can Scruggs take more shots while keeping his 3P% up? Incoming transfer Jason Carter shot a respectful 34% last season but only has 32 makes in 2 seasons. Bryce Moore could be an answer. He shot 39% and averaged 2 3s a game 2 seasons ago...but is coming off major surgery and is facing a big step up in competition. Then there's all the freshmen.
Lots of unknowns on Xavier....but with so many quality options, I think the chances are that enough of them will be pleasant surprises and lead them to a good season.
Xaver has done a solid job with Travis Steele in charge. When I went to the Big East semis this past year, of the four teams there, the eye test was that Xavier was very clearly the second best as they were able to compete very well with Nova taking them to overtime.
The way I look at it, X has almost all their lineup back. Having a big percentage of production returning is historically a good thing. The two grad transfers they have coming should be able to replace two the grad transfers who are gone. Then they have a very nice large freshman class coming in to provide depth.
I think they will be a team that bounces around the top 22- 25 ,first or second of those also receiving votes type team. By the end of the season one or two of those freshman should be decent contributors .
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Xaver has done a solid job with Travis Steele in charge. When I went to the Big East semis this past year, of the four teams there, the eye test was that Xavier was very clearly the second best as they were able to compete very well with Nova taking them to overtime.
The way I look at it, X has almost all their lineup back. Having a big percentage of production returning is historically a good thing. The two grad transfers they have coming should be able to replace two the grad transfers who are gone. Then they have a very nice large freshman class coming in to provide depth.
I think they will be a team that bounces around the top 22- 25 ,first or second of those also receiving votes type team. By the end of the season one or two of those freshman should be decent contributors .
Glad to see you agree with DJO and I. 20 is too high and they'll probably end up in other's recieving votes category.
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I was not happy with the Wojo hire. Mainly, because I could not stand him as a player. He also was stiff compared to Buzz. I really enjoy crazy coaches like Al and Buzz. I think Wojo is less stiff now.
A five year record of 97-69 is under performing my expectations for an MU coach. He has to do better than that the next 5 years and I think he will.
I would not of agreed with firing him now. Wojo has been successful even though it was not as successful as I would of liked. There is no guarantee that a new coach would do as good as Wojo has.
Well done. I especially appreciate any fan who didn't want a particular hire but is one board with our coach. Every time I hear underperformed - I go back to the record between Al and Buzz - what was it one final four and one other sweet 16 in three decades? I believe we are on course for a.good run, and certainly better than most of our history.
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Well done. I especially appreciate any fan who didn't want a particular hire but is one board with our coach. Every time I hear underperformed - I go back to the record between Al and Buzz - what was it one final four and one other sweet 16 in three decades? I believe we are on course for a.good run, and certainly better than most of our history.
Raymonds got us a Sweet 16 but yeah pretty rough.
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While I get the appeal of X (returning 4 starters and got hot down the stretch last year), top 20 seems too high for them. Keep in mind that they were still a NIT team that had a 6 game losing streak during the season capped by a 12 point home loss to DePaul. Marshall, Scruggs, Goodin, and Jones are all decent players, but Scruggs was the only one to shoot over 30% from deep (for reference Goodin and Marshall would have been the 6th and 7th best shooters on MU last year behind "worst 2 guard in the conference Sacar", and "not a Beast player Chartouny"). The returning experience should help, but I see them as more of a fringe top 25 team.
I was at a Xavier reception for incoming Connecticut Freshman. My kid met ZAK SWETYE at the reception who is from Darien. I'm guessing he's the Rob Frozena of Xavier.