Oops / SJU

[muguru]

guru, DJO's reactions and thoughts on the subject are similar to mine.

When watching a game and when things aren't going well for our heroes, I occasionally yell at the TV. I've been known to flip a remote control up in the air. I will curse sometimes ... sending my poor dog scurrying out of the room and under my desk in the office next door. When we got down by 15 to St. John's, I told my wife, "OK, I've got to settle down a little." And I sat there very quietly, almost motionless, testing my ability to chill. When we got it down to 7 or so, I resumed my discussions with the MU players and coaches on the TV. When we're going well, I'll clap and/or make the 3-point symbol and/or stand.

When I'm with a group of friends watching a game at a bar, I am less outwardly demonstrative. Other bar patrons don't want to hear some yahoo swearing at the top of his lungs at a televised basketball game. But I am definitely feeling the emotions inside, and I tend to talk out every play, as do a few of my buds. I'm sure we sound like yammering fools.

I am the coordinator for our National Marquette Day festivities in Charlotte this Saturday. There will be families there. Am I supposed to scream and swear at the TV to prove how "competitive" I am? Would you? Or am I supposed to act like a mature adult who has a life beyond MU hoops? I will do the latter, of course, but I will be emoting inside, and I certainly will be whoopin' it up when things are going well. These events are never easy for me because I really want to focus on the game and a lot of folks want to socialize.

When I am at a game, I cheer a lot, stand more than most, make the 3 sign every time Sam or Markus release an H-bomb, etc. I was fortunate enough to have incredible seats for the DePaul game last month and I often was one of only a couple people standing in my entire section. But again, I mostly grumble when things aren't going well, because nobody wants to be seated in front of, behind, or next to the jerk who is swearing in public.

I was covering Illinois basketball in 2003, and they happened to be playing their first- and second-round games in Indy, just as we were. So I watched the MU-Holy Cross game on press row while waiting for the Illinois game to start. Again, I had to act like a professional, so I wasn't throwing things or cursing. At one point, when things weren't going well, I put my head down on the press table and stopped watching for a minute. At another point, I got up and took about a 3-minute walk in the corridor before I came back to my seat. What was funny is that later, one of my fellow scribes was telling people, "You should have seen Mike. He was going crazy!" Which was 100% not true -- I was the opposite of going crazy. Damn lyin' media - ha! I was a nervous wreck again two days later during the Mizzou game, which was one of the most incredible games I've ever witnessed in person.

After losses, I'm never happy. I usually cope by reliving the couple/few things that I thought cost us the game. I'll wait hours, or sometimes a day, before I go on Scoop because I already feel bad enough. But I then have to get on with my life. I have work to do or stuff to do around the house. I have a wife I don't want to make miserable. I'm certainly not still moping 2 or 3 days later. You might think that's the same as shrugging and saying "I don't care," but you're wrong. It's accepting that I can't change what happened and refusing to make myself and those I love miserable because a bunch of 20-year-olds missed a few shots.

guru, I assure you that I am extremely competitive and I want to win. Ask my kids if I ever let them beat me at anything. Never! Not even Candyland. My son and I would play 1-on-1 and I'd block every shot I could. I never lost to him because I was smart enough to stop playing him when he was about 11. I'm still that way when the family plays board games.

I am a basketball coach now. I was a head coach at the middle-school level for 4 years and now I'm an assistant for one of the top HS programs in Charlotte. There have been times that I've been less than pleased on the bench. But a coach can't lose his shyte. He or she has to be a role model, has to keep his or her composure. And unlike MU games, I actually have a little control over some of the things that happen in games I coach (at least when I was a head coach).

You are no more "competitive" than I am, my friend. Nor are you more "passionate" a fan. You just react differently to the stimuli with which you are presented. You choose to get worked up, to let it fester for days, etc.

And that's cool. Whatever floats your boat. I will agree to stop telling you to chill if you agree to stop calling out your fellow Scoopers for not being as "competitive" as you are.

Not only is it childish, but it's inaccurate. As is you knowing more about basketball than anybody else here. That's just silly.

See, this is beautiful! For real! You show PLENTY of emotion, and I LOVE it. Real life stories..are the best. It changes my view on things and how I see some of you. It's just we all express it differently etc. I do all the same things as you..but sometimes more demonstrative..I don't really care who it affects that's around me, just givem e my "moment" and it's all good. I choose to express myself after losses on this message board. In reality it doesn't affect anyone, and it gives me an "outlet". it's better then taking it out on someone close to me, right??

After Markus "missed" that last shot, I grabbed my coat "angrily" and walked up the steps to the lobby, and as I walked by the "table" behind the seats, I slapped it as hard as I could in disgust and mumbled" what a bunch of bullcrap". Yes, people saw me and heard the slap, and looked at me..I looked pissed, because I was..but why do I care what a bunch of people who don't know me think about how I act in a moment of frustration and anger.

On my hour drive home on icy roads, I stewed the whole way..not because I was pissed because I had a long drive home on crappy roads, but because MU had just lost a game I felt they had no business losing.

P.S. I have NO idea how people watch games at bars or other places, or even with people..Except of course if you are in attendance. I want to concentrate on and hear the game, without all the "other" distractions around me. I watch them alone..always. unless I'm there, of course.

[MU82]

See, this is beautiful! For real! You show PLENTY of emotion, and I LOVE it. Real life stories..are the best. It changes my view on things and how I see some of you. It's just we all express it differently etc. I do all the same things as you..but sometimes more demonstrative..I don't really care who it affects that's around me, just givem e my "moment" and it's all good. I choose to express myself after losses on this message board. In reality it doesn't affect anyone, and it gives me an "outlet". it's better then taking it out on someone close to me, right??

After Markus "missed" that last shot, I grabbed my coat "angrily" and walked up the steps to the lobby, and as I walked by the "table" behind the seats, I slapped it as hard as I could in disgust and mumbled" what a bunch of bullcrap". Yes, people saw me and heard the slap, and looked at me..I looked pissed, because I was..but why do I care what a bunch of people who don't know me think about how I act in a moment of frustration and anger.

On my hour drive home on icy roads, I stewed the whole way..not because I was pissed because I had a long drive home on crappy roads, but because MU had just lost a game I felt they had no business losing

Glad you made it home OK.

I've said my piece (and then some) on this subject.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I got a little lost here. Can we go back to discussing sticking it up the asses of Badger fans?

If we do stick it up their asses, aren't we actually handing a victory to a majority of those c@cksuck3rs?

[muguru]

Just a tip, don't use RPI as an argument, you won't win.  While it's true that home losses hurt more than road losses, margins are far more important than where a game took place.  If I had to rank our 4 losses from best to worst it would go:

1 point home loss to StJ
9 point neutral loss to KU
BIG GAP
20 point road loss to StJ
23 point road loss to I4

The same way that the narrow winning margins weren't helping our advanced numbers a lot, a narrow loss (even at home) does not hurt our advanced numbers as much as the road blowouts.  NET movement has confirmed this.

NET yes, the affects aren't as noticeable..but RPI they were/are, I assure you. You can go beat UCF on the road and in a lot of cases your RPI would go UP even with a loss, however a loss at home(no matter to whom or by what margin) would ALWAYS drop you. I remember MU losing at home to Nova(I think last year it was), and checking the RPI after the loss and it had dropped like 10+ spots for losing at home to a highly ranked team. The computers for the most part do NOT like home losses, that is a fact. How the humans on the committee view them is an entirely different debate.

[Its DJOver]

NET yes, the affects aren't as noticeable..but RPI they were/are, I assure you. You can go beat UCF on the road and in a lot of cases your RPI would go UP even with a loss, however a loss at home(no matter to whom or by what margin) would ALWAYS drop you. I remember MU losing at home to Nova(I think last year it was), and checking the RPI after the loss and it had dropped like 10+ spots for losing at home to a highly ranked team. The computers for the most part do NOT like home losses, that is a fact. How the humans on the committee view them is an entirely different debate.

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say.  RPI is no longer used to determine seed/invitation to the NCAA tournament.  It is factored in 0%.  It is a broken metric that long outlived it's usefulness, and has no effect on anything related to our success or failure this season.

[Bocephys]

Have we considered the possibility that Guru is actually a four year old and just vastly underestimates the ages of the rest of us on this board?

[muguru]

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say.  RPI is no longer used to determine seed/invitation to the NCAA tournament.  It is factored in 0%.  It is a broken metric that long outlived it's usefulness, and has no effect on anything related to our success or failure this season.

Shall we go with respected National Writer Matt Norlander on this?? Pay particular attention to his last sentence..

https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/1092641526554001409

Losing at home is what hurts you.

[JakeBarnes]

Hey guys, did I miss anything?

[Its DJOver]

Shall we go with respected National Writer Matt Norlander on this?? Pay particular attention to his last sentence..

https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/1092641526554001409

Losing at home is what hurts you.

He can say whatever he wants.  Considering no one knows the exact formula for calculating NET (which is used whereas RPI is not) lets look at how we actually moved after our 1st home loss of the season which didn't come until February.

Big East Net Rankings as of games of Tuesday February 5.
New Old
18   19   Villanova   
21   18   Marquette   
40   45   St. John's
55   55   Butler   
58   58   Creighton   
67   67   Seton Hall   
79   82   Georgetown   
81   81   Providence   
92   92   Xavier   
102   102   DePaul

[muguru]

He can say whatever he wants.  Considering no one knows the exact formula for calculating NET (which is used whereas RPI is not) lets look at how we actually moved after our 1st home loss of the season which didn't come until February.

Right, three spots...but those three spots COULD end up being massive if it means a difference between being a 3 seed or a 4 seed for example. And where it could really hurt is if they stacked another loss at home on Saturday.

[Its DJOver]

Right, three spots...but those three spots COULD end up being massive if it means a difference between being a 3 seed or a 4 seed for example. And where it could really hurt is if they stacked another loss at home on Saturday.

The point is that 3 spots is quite a ways away from the 10+ that you would get from the RPI.  I might not have the numbers perfect, but during our 8 game winning streak I believe that we were between 16 and 21 for almost the entirety of that stretch because a lot of the wins were by small margins.  The only time that we really had a significant drop from one game was the loss at StJ.  Also, as Brew pointed out in another thread, we have more Q1 wins than all but 2 teams in the country, we won't know for sure until Saturday, but I think that will be have a much larger impact than our now 1 Q2 loss.

[muguru]

The point is that 3 spots is quite a ways away from the 10+ that you would get from the RPI.  I might not have the numbers perfect, but during our 8 game winning streak I believe that we were between 16 and 21 for almost the entirety of that stretch because a lot of the wins were by small margins.  The only time that we really had a significant drop from one game was the loss at StJ.  Also, as Brew pointed out in another thread, we have more Q1 wins than all but 2 teams in the country, we won't know for sure until Saturday, but I think that will be have a much larger impact than our now 1 Q2 loss.

I think they are still a top 16 seed...but right at the back end #15 or #16, where as before the SJU loss, they may have been at like #11 or #12. You would agree that there is a MASSIVE difference between being a #3 seed in the NCAA's and a #4 right?? A #3 you avoid the #1, as a #4 you get them in the round of sweet sixteen.

[Its DJOver]

I think they are still a top 16 seed...but right at the back end #15 or #16, where as before the SJU loss, they may have been at like #11 or #12. You would agree that there is a MASSIVE difference between being a #3 seed in the NCAA's and a #4 right?? A #3 you avoid the #1, as a #4 you get them in the round of sweet sixteen.

Yes there's a difference between a 3 and a 4, but looking at S16 matchups in early February is downright ridiculous. The only matchups we should be keeping an eye on right now is making sure we avoid StJ in the BET.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yes there's a difference between a 3 and a 4, but looking at S16 matchups in early February is downright ridiculous. The only matchups we should be keeping an eye on right now is making sure we avoid StJ in the BET.

Eh, I'd love another shot at them. I love me some revenge.

[Its DJOver]

Eh, I'd love another shot at them. I love me some revenge.

Ponds in NY with our BET resume? No thank you.  I think they're beatable, especially if they're playing on back to back nights with their lack of depth, but there's a higher chance Ponds goes full Kemba than Markus IMO.

[MUEng92]

Anyone ever click on the new button for a thread, start reading it and have something pertinent to post.  Then you realize you are reading page 8 of 11 and by the time you get to the last page, the conversation topic now has nothing to do with what you wanted to post about.  Bummer.  Even worse when the thread actually has gotten back on the original topic so your post would not only not be on topic, but make you look like you are trying to re-derail the thread.

I hate when that happens.

[Galway Eagle]

Anyone ever click on the new button for a thread, start reading it and have something pertinent to post.  Then you realize you are reading page 8 of 11 and by the time you get to the last page, the conversation topic now has nothing to do with what you wanted to post about.  Bummer.  Even worse when the thread actually has gotten back on the original topic so your post would not only not be on topic, but make you look like you are trying to re-derail the thread.

I hate when that happens.

This was not pertinent to the original or current topic

[Herman Cain]

I'm glad a loss is funny to you...My day has literally sucked today because of that loss last night...it will suck for the next couple as well..how many others can say the same??

Hang in there. You will feel a lot better after we beat Nova.

[NickelDimer]

Just curious, were you at the game, or watching on TV??

Uh oh! Couch fan attack!!

[Billy Hoyle]

One of the advantages of growing up a Detroit Lions fan is that I learned to manage disappointment early.    My MU years were 84-88, Majerus to Dukiet.   I rooted like crazy, student section all 4 years, realized that the team stunk.  Managed my disappointment  The last time I threw anything watching sports was a MU game during the Deane years.   Had no effect on the game, had to replace a lamp.    Another lesson learned.   
  I have now coached well over 30 youth teams in 5 sports.    Teach the kids to compete as hard as they can and then shake hands when it is over.   Not the worst lesson in the world.    Knowing I am a role model for these kids, they have never seen me lose my temper with an umpire/referee.    All of my disagreements are in a conversational tone.   Screaming, irrational parents... I let them have their say and then try to get them to speak like a mature, rational adult.   
   Finally, having been a firefighter for nearly 29 years, I know what life and death looks like.    MU basketball ranks very high on my obsession list.    But it isn't life or death.

my buddy and I were sulking and pounding beers after the 2004 loss in Madison.  A regular at the bar came up to us and said "it's not your wife and it's not your life. It's a game." To me, it's entertainment and if it's affecting my life after the buzzer then I shouldn't be watching. 

[MUEng92]

This was not pertinent to the original or current topic

I know, that's the problem.  Wait, no. That's a slightly different problem. Never mind...

[brewcity77]

Also, as Brew pointed out in another thread, we have more Q1 wins than all but 2 teams in the country

Credit where it's due, TAMU pointed that out.

[Its DJOver]

Credit where it's due, TAMU pointed that out.

Mea cupla. Apologies TAMU.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Mea cupla. Apologies TAMU.

[MU82]

Ponds in NY with our BET resume?

Yes, because if it has happened in the past, it automatically will happen in the future. Case in point ... Wojo never having won 3 straight BEast games.