MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on February 05, 2019, 09:05:57 PM
-
1. Whole team other than Morrow was soft around the basket.
2. Sam with the ball on the wing. Picked clean by Clark who hits a pull up 3. Game in microcosm. Up to that point.
3. Chartouny looked solid. Maybe his beat game of the year. And Wojo rode him.
4. SJU knows how to d up Markus. Switching big guards onto him all over the place. Run him off the line.
5. SJU made Joey look slow. Well, to be fair, they made a few guys look slow.
6. Sacar was bad tonight. Until the big shot. And then he fell on his butt on the biggest defensive possession of the game.
7. Sometimes comebacks fall short.
8. This team doesn't stink. Wojo shouldn't be fired.
It sucks.
Get ready for Villanova.
-
9. I unnatural carnal knowledgeing hate Shamorie Ponds
-
F*ck that game is all the analysis needed. That was ours to win and we sh*t the bed
-
Sacar was very, very bad. Oh well. Get Nova Saturday.
-
Horrible shooting night. Not much else to be said.
-
Really like Ponds game. Fun player to watch.
Sometimes you just can’t hit shots.
-
So what happens if we lose on saturday do we drop the top 25 potentially cuz it feels like it
-
I don’t get why we don’t post up.
Down 1 play with height and for a foul.
Everyone knew Markus was gonna try and be the hero if he got it. And he always panics in those spots
-
Sacar was very, very bad. Oh well. Get Nova Saturday.
Besides that last defensive possession he was solid. Wouldn't say very, very bad cmon now.
-
Horrible shooting night. Not much else to be said.
That is the game in a nutshell. We missed many shots we usually make, especially Sam, who had a very good game otherwise, that hand the ball to the other team turnover notwithstanding.
-
MU pulls to within 1, 56-55, Ponds comes down and gets and and 1. The Sacar foul on the Ponds 3 with 3 minutes left. The 3 possessions on one trip the Johnnie's got from the 2 minute mark to the 1 minute mark, ending with a dumb foul by JC...50/50 balls going Johnnies way...tough pill to swallow tonight.
I actually wouldn't have believed it if MU had won. Tough to come all the way back, get a gigantic Anim 3, and then lose...ugh, frustrating.
-
All of the morons that gave up on our team time after time throughout the game should go away. Just stop posting, you f'n dipsh*ts.
-
What a stupid play by markus.. jumps out of the way to avoid the foul.... insane literally got Heron in the air and could easily have drawn the foul
-
Joey's missed rebound at the end was brutal. He did not have a good night.
-
Really like Ponds game. Fun player to watch.
No. Wrong. Eh ah. Incorrect.
-
Why didn’t Markus use the Rowsey there?
Heron wasn’t expecting it and was in the air and Markus slid under for the shot.
3 FTs there wins the game.
-
So what happens if we lose on saturday do we drop the top 25 potentially cuz it feels like it
How old are you? Seriously?
-
Why was Joe on the bench once we got in the bonus? Feed him and send him to the stripe all day
-
19-4
not too shabby
regroup and beat villanova
-
Give St. John’s credit for knocking MU back each time they got close, until Sacar’s shot.
Still pissed though. Damn it.
-
Besides that last defensive possession he was solid. Wouldn't say very, very bad cmon now.
He had several head scratching moments including a missed bunny. Also missed FTs.
-
Trap game. Team and crowd didn’t show up until they were down 15 in the second half. This is why you can’t overlook opponents, especially when they beat you by 20 a month ago.
But hey at least we can pull within 1 game with a win over Nova on Saturday.
-
Saturday is a bellwether game
-
Sucks but gotta hand it to johnnies. Except Markus should have shot ball into heron to be fouled. Last play should have been drive to hoop.
-
Should have gone to zone at the end to force an outside shot, Anim can not guard Ponds by himself, pretty easy to figure
-
Trap game. Team and crowd didn’t show up until they were down 15 in the second half. This is why you can’t overlook opponents, especially when they beat you by 20 a month ago.
But hey at least we can pull within 1 game with a win over Nova on Saturday.
They didn't overlook them. At all.
-
A loss at this point in the season could be a good thing for the team. Keep the team hungry.
-
Howard has shot 7-32 against SJU in the two games. Brutal.
-
What a stupid play by markus.. jumps out of the way to avoid the foul.... insane literally got Heron in the air and could easily have drawn the foul
How many times did he see Rowsey do The Thing and he didn’t learn it. Wins the game if he does it there.
-
He had several head scratching moments including a missed bunny. Also missed FTs.
But very very bad he was not
-
If we were just going give the ball to Markus and tell him to win it, why didn't just let the game play out without calling timeout?
-
Sucks but gotta hand it to johnnies. Except Markus should have shot ball into heron to be fouled. Last play should have been drive to hoop.
Hand what to them? Facing a team who had their worst shooting performance of the season? Throwing absolute garbage at the rim and having it go in, in the first half?
I'm not worries about MU, have complete confidence that they come out and smoke Nova on Saturday but St. John's is trash, they play like complete garbage all season unless it's against Marquette. I honestly hope they don't make the NCAA tourney.
-
Trap game. Team and crowd didn’t show up until they were down 15 in the second half. This is why you can’t overlook opponents, especially when they beat you by 20 a month ago.
But hey at least we can pull within 1 game with a win over Nova on Saturday.
They got outplayed.
-
I felt like we should be running 2 guys at ponds more...
Posting up more...
Lacked rebounding with shorter lineup... lacked quickness with bigger lineup.
We didn’t shoot well but St. John’s sped us up..,
St. John’s is a tough match up...
Marquette showed toughness coming back and could have won....
-
If anyone was very very bad it was Markus
-
If we were just going give the ball to Markus and tell him to win it, why didn't just let the game play out without calling timeout?
[/quote
Thought the same thing, that was a really bad timeout by Woj.
-
So many plays could have changed the outcome. On ponds final basket, neither Sam or Theo moved after Sacar slipped. Everyone knew he was going to take the shot.
-
If we were just going give the ball to Markus and tell him to win it, why didn't just let the game play out without calling timeout?
My guess is that wasn’t the call. Usually Wojo runs a set out of a timeout.
-
Down 7, Sacar misses an uncontested layup. SJ misses, Bailey misses wide open three, SJ turnover, Sam misses wide open three, SJ turnover, Bailey misses layup. That was big part of loss there.
Fouls on Sacar and Joe were fouls and very bad timing.
MU missed 8 free throws.
Ponds scored last 10 points and that move on Sacar was pretty good. Ankle breaker.
Last play, Sam was begging, begging for ball to Markus left. Two SJ guys came over to Markus. Watch replay.
Ok, not good, just win another eight in a row. Sometimes a loss good for team, brings them back to earth.
-
Let’s face it. We’ve been lucky in some close wins. We were bound to lose a close one.
-
That was probably SJU's best game of the season too. They were up for the game, were tough as nails on D, and hit garbage shots all game long.
-
Bummer. SJU has our number. Bad game from pretty much everyone other than Sam, who still wasn’t himself. Everyone else besides Theo was bad.
Oh well. Tip your cap to the Johnnies for a win that pretty much seals their bid up at 9-9, and move on.
-
What a stupid play by markus.. jumps out of the way to avoid the foul.... insane literally got Heron in the air and could easily have drawn the foul
Exactly. In that situation, Rowsey would have drawn the foul.
-
But very very bad he was not
I guess we just disagree on what "very very bad" means. *shrugs*
-
If we were just going give the ball to Markus and tell him to win it, why didn't just let the game play out without calling timeout?
.
+1
-
Shooting was an anomaly tonight. Not a lot of made uncontested threes. Kinda felt like a pitcher on too much rest--didnt have the feel for the game tonight (see our 3pt% thru the first 7/8 of the game).
Good rally to come back despite that. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it icestorms.
-
No. Wrong. Eh ah. Incorrect.
Well I’m not going to trash him. He was real good tonight. Give credit.
-
Sam wasn't open. Ponds jumped the passing lane.
Late in the game, Theo posted up and got an easy lay in because 3 of their guys had 4 fouls.
Why not go inside to Joey or Sam late in the game with the foul situation?
-
And the magical season comes to a bitter end...Oh wait, there's 8+ games left.
-
Oh and free throws matter
-
So what happens if we lose on saturday do we drop the top 25 potentially cuz it feels like it
No
-
It sucks to lose but I’m not too down on the team. Lot of missed shots early but they battled back. Happy there are more games to be played.
-
I guess we just disagree on what "very very bad" means. *shrugs*
Agreed
-
I'd like to not see St. John's again in the BET.
-
1. Whole team other than Morrow was soft around the basket.
2. Sam with the ball on the wing. Picked clean by Clark who hits a pull up 3. Game in microcosm. Up to that point.
3. Chartouny looked solid. Maybe his beat game of the year. And Wojo rode him.
4. SJU knows how to d up Markus. Switching big guards onto him all over the place. Run him off the line.
5. SJU made Joey look slow. Well, to be fair, they made a few guys look slow.
6. Sacar was bad tonight. Until the big shot. And then he fell on his butt on the biggest defensive possession of the game.
7. Sometimes comebacks fall short.
8. This team doesn't stink. Wojo shouldn't be fired.
It sucks.
Get ready for Villanova.
1. Disagree, Theo was tough. Thougt he was going to get a tech couple of times
6. True. But that play he fell if you can look at replay Ponds used his left arm to get him out of the way, but they won't call tgat on Ponds.
-
So what happens if we lose on saturday do we drop the top 25 potentially cuz it feels like it
They should just cancel the rest of the season.
-
Down 7, Sacar misses an uncontested layup. SJ misses, Bailey misses wide open three, SJ turnover, Sam misses wide open three, SJ turnover, Bailey misses layup. That was big part of loss there.
Fouls on Sacar and Joe were fouls and very bad timing.
MU missed 8 free throws.
Ponds scored last 10 points and that move on Sacar was pretty good. Ankle breaker.
Last play, Sam was begging, begging for ball to Markus left. Two SJ guys came over to Markus. Watch replay.
Ok, not good, just win another eight in a row. Sometimes a loss good for team, brings them back to earth.
Sam was not begging for the ball. Go back and watch the replay. Sam is standing at the bottom of the logo at center court.
-
It sucks to lose but I’m not too down on the team. Lot of missed shots early but they battled back. Happy there are more games to be played.
I'm not down on the team, but I think that put a huge nail in our coffin as far as winning the Big East is concerned. We couldn't afford this one with regards to the Big East title.
-
Sam was not begging for the ball. Go back and watch the replay. Sam is standing at the bottom of the logo at center court.
That is not where Sam was standing.
-
Sam was not begging for the ball. Go back and watch the replay. Sam is standing at the bottom of the logo at center court.
Which tells me Wojo’s master plan was for Markus to play iso ball. That’s a terrible strategy in that situation against that team. Sam absolutely should’ve been the shooter in that spot
-
Besides that last defensive possession he was solid. Wouldn't say very, very bad cmon now.
Not gonna pile on Sacar but he was really bad tonight. Sucks when ur 2g shoots 50% from the line n misses multiple barely or completely uncontested layups.
-
Not gonna pile on Sacar but he was really bad tonight. Sucks when ur 2g shoots 50% from the line n misses multiple barely or completely uncontested layups.
Go away.
-
I’ll say this, Chartouny now looks like he belongs. Guy’s unselfish, knows his role, and I’m glad we have him. He probably expected to start or at least play more minutes when he transferred here, but from the looks of it he just cares about what’s best for the team. Ditto for Morrow.
-
All of the morons that gave up on our team time after time throughout the game should go away. Just stop posting, you f'n dipsh*ts.
I'll admit I thought it was over and posted that it was done. But we showed a lot of fight and it is what it is. We're 19-4. It happens.
I dont get mad at losses by college kids. I'm mostly annoyed that Scoop, one of my hobbies, will be unreadable for 5 days because of some people.
Wish Markus would have leaned into his defender once he got him up in the air.
-
Not gonna pile on Sacar but he was really bad tonight. Sucks when ur 2g shoots 50% from the line n misses multiple barely or completely uncontested layups.
This is Sacar though. He's like a switch,either on and having a great game, or off. We've seen both this year.
-
I don’t get why we don’t post up.
Down 1 play with height and for a foul.
Everyone knew Markus was gonna try and be the hero if he got it. And he always panics in those spots
More likely if Theo could shoot free throws. Sam was wide open for the kick out.
-
This game just pisses me off idk why.. just every 50 50 ball going their way. Silly turnovers. Guys giving ponds the lane at the end. Hell.would have rather had anyone else take a wide open three then letting ponds drive into an unprotected lane. And of course stunned by markus jumping so far out of the way even though heron jumped sp badly on that fake. Ugh whatever
-
Besides that last defensive possession he was solid. Wouldn't say very, very bad cmon now.
There should have been help there sooner. Theo was late. That’s as much on the help as Sacar
-
will be unreadable for 5 days because of some people.
1.5 days. Nova on NMD in 3.5 days! We'll be ready!
-
More likely if Theo could shoot free throws. Sam was wide open for the kick out.
Why do people keep saying this. Sam was open because he was standing on the bottom of the logo near center court. he wasn't in a shooting position.
-
Mixed emotions, it really felt like we should have lost that game by double digits. I'm happy the guys fought hard to get back in it, but it sucks losing at home, and if MU was going to win the Big East regular season title, they had to have this one. A loss Saturday puts MU into a weird no man's land for the rest of the regular season, where they'd basically have to hold serve (minus 1) to lock up the Big East two seed.
-
That is not where Sam was standing.
Yes he was. He was between the Al logo and the halfcourt logo when Markus started his step back. He was still there but starting to move when Markus started his double clutch shot.
-
I'm not down on the team, but I think that put a huge nail in our coffin as far as winning the Big East is concerned. We couldn't afford this one with regards to the Big East title.
Sweep Nova and it may not matter.
-
This game just pisses me off idk why.. just every 50 50 ball going their way. Silly turnovers. Guys giving ponds the lane at the end. Hell.would have rather had anyone else take a wide open three then letting ponds drive into an unprotected lane. And of course stunned by markus jumping so far out of the way even though heron jumped sp badly on that fake. Ugh whatever
I know why it pisses me off. Because that team absolutely punked us in their house then came to ours and swept us. We had no business losing to that team again
-
Just so frustrating.
-
Did the team do squats in the weight room prior to the game? Everything they shot in the first half was short.
-
Plz look at the game thread and 7-8 minutes into the game i stated the game was faaar from over.
Also, would have liked to see more of ed and less of theo, theo cannot guard anyone but keita on defense and helped lead to alot of our defensive match up problems. Also Joey cant guard them either, bailey n chartouney helped us get back in the game as did ed.
Great effort in coming back just didnt make enough shots.
Howards live ball turnovers were the difference in the game.
Why call a To if we are gonna do two crossovers n a step back 3? Sam deserved that shot off of a downscreen or something going to the hoop. Bad Markus killed us tonite, thankfully bad Markus is seen less and less. Lets hope that this was the last bad Markus appearance this year.
-
Markus just needs to shoot normal threes, he just makes it tough for himself. Just go up with it man.
-
Why do people keep saying this. Sam was open because he was standing on the bottom of the logo near center court. he wasn't in a shooting position.
Ummm, no.
-
St John's is taking over the place of Notre Dame in the Big East. I really, really, really unnatural carnal knowledgeing hate them. unnatural carnal knowledge that team.
-
Yes he was. He was between the Al logo and the halfcourt logo when Markus started his step back. He was still there but starting to move when Markus started his double clutch shot.
Ok. Any highlights available yet?
-
1. The D on SJ last possession was awful. Sacar falling down was the first issue, but there was no help D at all. Theo was at opposite elbow, stepping out to 3 and had no chance to help on the drive. Why??? Sam was 2 passes away, but didn't have a foot in the lane. Again...why?? It was only going to be Ponds to the hoop.
2. WTF was Markus doing on that last play? We need ANY kind of basket and that's the shot we get? And then, when given the chance to get bailed out, he avoids the contact! Unbelievable.
We just can't have nice things. Congrats to Nova on winning big east.
-
St John's is taking over the place of Notre Dame in the Big East. I really, really, really unnatural carnal knowledgeing hate them. unnatural carnal knowledge that team.
Isn't it easier to type "f'n" or "f*cking"?
-
Which tells me Wojo’s master plan was for Markus to play iso ball. That’s a terrible strategy in that situation against that team. Sam absolutely should’ve been the shooter in that spot
Wojo said post-game that Markus was to drive if he could, if not it was to go to Sam or to Theo going to the hoop. Markus got a little one track mind there. Seemed to be thrown off a bit by losing his handle on the dribble early on.
-
Seriously, how does Sham Ponds slide like a skateboarder and not get called for a travel? He looked like he was on roller skates. Then the three shot foul on Sacar? For what, looking at him funny?
-
Sweep Nova and it may not matter.
Tall order because frankly they have been playing much better than we have of late. We are two back in the loss column, so we will have to sweep them now, I think.
-
Sam n joey were wide open
I cannot imagine that was the play. I think it was just the lastest of a long string of stupid Markus plays on the night. Really disappointing. Game was effectively lost by not playing intensely enough for much of the firat half. When we matches their intensity were were fine. Hole was just pretty deep.
-
That was a low possession game even with a low number of turnovers. 62?
Too low. It suited the Johnnies but not us.
-
I just watched the replay. It looked like it would have been a tough pass to Sam hauser. He was pretty far back. Not a real good possession.
-
I just watched the replay. It looked like it would have been a tough pass to Sam hauser. He was pretty far back. Not a real good possession.
Thank you! If people want to be mad at Markus, be mad that he didn’t put up the shot when he got his guy in the air.
-
That was a low possession game even with a low number of turnovers. 62?
Too low. It suited the Johnnies but not us.
66 possessions
-
I had a bad feeling about tonight, it was right. That said, congrats to St John’s on a hard fought, resume building sweep of MU. That’ll get ya in the big dance and they played hard and have MUs number.
That team is a terrible matchup for Marquette and they are in Markus head and don’t give him an inch of space. The big 3 cost us tonight- Joey was nonexistent, sam and Markus missed too many shots and Markus was too passive/played scared in the 2H.
On the plus side, excellent resilience in the second half by the fellas. Had we have rolled over I think Saturday woulda been a loss but as it stands I think it’ll be another dogfight and hopefully a W.
I think we get the best of the Johnnies and return the favor at the Garden in the semis. We are Marquette.
-
Ummm, no.
Ummm, yes. Sam was between the Al logo and the half court logo.
https://painttouches.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2.png
-
66 possessions
Thx. Still too low.
-
I am disappointed that we lost. Hopefully we can win against Nova.
-
Seriously, how does Sham Ponds slide like a skateboarder and not get called for a travel? He looked like he was on roller skates. Then the three shot foul on Sacar? For what, looking at him funny?
Sacar fouls three point shooters alot unfortunately. When u lose by 1 and play so poorly its easy to look at alot of different plays that would have made the difference
-
Ummm, yes. Sam was between the Al logo and the half court logo.
https://painttouches.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2.png
Don't see Joey open either.
-
Assuming wojo made a call there on the defensive strategy on their last possession I think wojo really pissed the bed on that one. Imo the best bet is to tell sam or theo to leave their guys open and prevent ponds from driving. Sacar one on one with no lane protection ain't gonna end well. Fire wojo.. jk
-
At least teams around us losing in the rankings:
9. Michigan state
11. Buzz
13. Kansas (looking like it anyway)
Saturday is a big game for MU. Think they’ll come out and play much better. Also, think nova is a better matchup.
-
Ummm, yes. Sam was between the Al logo and the half court logo.
https://painttouches.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2.png
Huh he catches that and steps into a perfect 3 shot or reverses to joey
Markus fd that up trying to playbhero ball , terrible game by Markus. Get ready for nova
-
Sam n joey were wide open
I cannot imagine that was the play. I think it was just the lastest of a long string of stupid Markus plays on the night. Really disappointing. Game was effectively lost by not playing intensely enough for much of the firat half. When we matches their intensity were were fine. Hole was just pretty deep.
Sam was open from the Al logo. Joey was not open, he was trying for a backdoor cut but Clarke and Figuroa were in position to pick off entry passes. Sacar was open for three between the corner and the elbow but honestly Markus shooting double clutch is probably as probable if not more than Sacar shooting that shot.
https://painttouches.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2.png
-
Kansas state beat kansas by 10 n keads the Big 12
-
Huh he catches that and steps into a perfect 3 shot or reverses to joey
Markus fd that up trying to playbhero ball , terrible game by Markus. Get ready for nova
Look again, you can see Joey is already starting his backdoor cut. Unless he backpedals Sam would have had no one to reverse it to. Sam could have stepped into a three....from way way way beyond the NBA line.
Honestly the right move was to do the Rowsey. He got Heron to bite hook, line, and sinker. Dude was going to full on tackle Markus if he didn't dodge to the side. There's a reason you don't see many players do the Rowsey, most players instincts are to let the defender fly by and take a shot.
-
Look again, you can see Joey is already starting his backdoor cut. Unless he backpedals Sam would have had no one to reverse it to. Sam could have stepped into a three....from way way way beyond the NBA line.
Honestly the right move was to do the Rowsey. He got Heron to bite hook, line, and sinker. Dude was going to full on tackle Markus if he didn't dodge to the side. There's a reason you don't see many players do the Rowsey, most players instincts are to let the defender fly by and take a shot.
Markus fd the whole thing up, as soon as he lost his dribble i knew it was gonna be a crap show. REally really bad night by Markus.
-
On a brighter note... free shakes! (with the two Clarke misses) lol
-
We are now 6-1 in games decided by 2 possessions or less this year. I think most would take that, and TBH if you are going to lose a close game, I would rather drop one where you play sub-par for long stretches and your comeback falls just a little short, versus playing well for 30-35 minutes and then pissing it away late, less of a gut punch. This team didn't quit, and I expect them to be ready to play on Saturday.
-
Seriously, how does Sham Ponds slide like a skateboarder and not get called for a travel? He looked like he was on roller skates. Then the three shot foul on Sacar? For what, looking at him funny?
The no travel was attrocious, though it didn't end up hurting us. I went back and looked at that foul on the three point play. It looks like Anim bumps him with the body just a little bit. One of those that sometimes gets called and sometimes doesn't. The one I really didn't like was the continuation on Ponds' and one. If Markus didn't get continuation in the first half, no way Ponds should have in the second. The foul when JC wrapped up Ponds was also questionable to me. That seemed like laziness on Ponds part and I saw nothing that was a foul on Joe.
Such is life. Don't miss a ton of open shots in the first half and its a moot point.
-
Markus fd the whole thing up, as soon as he lost his dribble i knew it was gonna be a crap show. REally really bad night by Markus.
It wasn't his best night, honestly I thought one of the biggest problems was his defense on Simon in the first half. Dude got whatever he wanted. I thought this was one of Markus' better games distributing the ball. 3 turnovers when you play 39 minutes and have the ball in your hands every possession is solid.
-
The one I really didn't like was the continuation on Ponds' and one. If Markus didn't get continuation in the first half, no way Ponds should have in the second.
This. That continuation play was a killer.
Props to Chartouny. I thought he was a difference maker on the defensive end in the second half. If this team is going to make a tourney run, we need him to be a major contributor.
-
It wasn't his best night, honestly I thought one of the biggest problems was his defense on Simon in the first half. Dude got whatever he wanted. I thought this was one of Markus' better games distributing the ball. 3 turnovers when you play 39 minutes and have the ball in your hands every possession is solid.
He also gave up the hige offensive rebound late in the game where he stood there and his man ran right past him. I saw the three TOs
Thatbis creative stat keeping he had at least 4 that i recall, 2 in a row in the first half, the cross lane pass in the second, inbounds in second.
-
This. That continuation play was a killer.
Props to Chartouny. I thought he was a difference maker on the defensive end in the second half. If this team is going to make a tourney run, we need him to be a major contributor.
Agree on all counts
-
Gotta hand it to SJU, they are long and athletic and really disrupt our offense. They also got some big offensive rebounds late. Glad we are done playing them but I would take another shot at them at MSG. Now lets beat Nova.
Also you have to think playing alongside Rowsey for so long Markus would have that "thing" nailed by now. Guess not.
-
I'm not a bball coach or expert. I love Markus.
That's the play they draw up after a time out?!
DOWN BY 1 POINT, Markus circus shot, hero ball?!
That was the game plan? Seriously?
I'm not a bball coach or expert. I love Markus.
-
We are now 6-1 in games decided by 2 possessions or less this year. I think most would take that, and TBH if you are going to lose a close game, I would rather drop one where you play sub-par for long stretches and your comeback falls just a little short, versus playing well for 30-35 minutes and then pissing it away late, less of a gut punch. This team didn't quit, and I expect them to be ready to play on Saturday.
As hard as it was to see that final possession fizzle out, you're spot on here. We've more things bounce our way than usual this year, so we were bound to come up short in one of the close ones eventually. And as nice as an undefeated season at home would have been, we're still in great shape for the post-season, and we have a great opportunity to chip away at Nova's lead on Saturday.
This might even be a wakeup call to the team and even to Wojo about what it takes to win the rest of the way out. There's some good film to take away from tonight even if the final result was an L.
-
I'm not a bball coach or expert. I love Markus.
That's the play they draw up after a time out?!
DOWN BY 1 POINT, Markus circus shot, hero ball?!
That was the game plan? Seriously?
I'm not a bball coach or expert. I love Markus.
I do not believe so. Wojo said Markus was supposed to drive or look for Sam or Theo. Also, I'm not sure that Wojo wanted that TO called. Markus came down the court looking at him, and then picked up his dribble. From where I was sitting, it looked like Wojo wanted him to drive straight away and not let the D get set. Once Markus picked up his dribble, Wojo's hands were kind of tied.
-
Good night for Joseph, bad, bad night for Joey.
So many opportunities for a win, and pissed away.
A troublesome trend that not many have commented on is our tendency to fall behind early. This team needs to learn what time the game starts.
Everyone in the western hemisphere knew that Ponds was going to take their last shot, except maybe Wojo and Sacar. Rowsey would have won at the buzzer.
Suck it up. Beat Nova and let's play it out.
-
Sam n joey were wide open
I cannot imagine that was the play. I think it was just the lastest of a long string of stupid Markus plays on the night. Really disappointing. Game was effectively lost by not playing intensely enough for much of the firat half. When we matches their intensity were were fine. Hole was just pretty deep.
Maybe they didnt. That said, a ton of wide open 3s missed tonight. The looks were there. If sam makes 1 more of his first 8 (all pretty wide) it is a win. Sometimes the shots dont fall. Still were there at the end.
-
He also gave up the hige offensive rebound late in the game where he stood there and his man ran right past him. I saw the three TOs
Thatbis creative stat keeping he had at least 4 that i recall, 2 in a row in the first half, the cross lane pass in the second, inbounds in second.
That possession was killer. Good d ends with Clarke taking an off balance three, Figueroa gets the offensive board over Markus, good d nearly leads to Ponds throwing it away but Simon corrals it, Joe gets his fingertips on Simon's pass and just misses the steal, Ponds throws up a rushed three at the buzzer, Simon skies over Markus for the tip out, Joe gets called for a soft foul on what looked like a good tie up. Took an entire minute off the game clock and put them up 5.
-
Ummm, yes. Sam was between the Al logo and the half court logo.
https://painttouches.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/screenshot-2.png
Well within his range.
-
What a stupid play by markus.. jumps out of the way to avoid the foul.... insane literally got Heron in the air and could easily have drawn the foul
+1
https://twitter.com/robdauster/status/1092992385481617409
-
Well within his range.
Still had 6 seconds. Think the Sam pump fake and blow by could have been a good look. Although, Markus panicked when he fumbled the ball and it went to hell from there. I still like Howard with the ball there. Guy has made some tough shots. Next one maybe.
-
1. Markus wasn't as sharp as he usually is, but he wasn't "bad." He had 3 TOs; I wish he had zero, but that wasn't some crazy-high total. He didn't shoot well overall but he went 4-for-8 from behind the arc on a night when the Hausers combined to go 3-for-14. He had 5 assists, including the drive-and-dish to Sacar for the go-ahead 3. He set a great screen on Sam's 3 that pulled us within 2 points. Only somebody who knows next to nothing about basketball would say that Markus was "terrible."
2. Our Warriors couldn't make a shot much of the night. It happens. I hate to lose, but I love the way the team battled back despite missing so many open shots that our guys usually swish. I would be happy if our guys get most of the exact same shots against Nova. Sam must have missed 4 wide-open looks, and even Markus missed one that he was so open I think it surprised him.
3. No doubt Sacar had a rough night on both ends of the court. And yet Sacar confidently stepped into that 3 to put us ahead. He was shoved a little on Ponds' winning shot, but you're just not gonna get that call.
4. Put me in the camp wishing that we had posted up Sam on the last possession. Very tough to defend. Of course, he missed a few from the post, too.
5. I obviously also wish Markus had Rowseyed his last shot; he totally had the defender in the air and even an incompetent ref would have had to call that foul. But he's not used to doing it -- has never done it once that I can recall -- and his instinct was to duck under and try the shot he did.
6. Just watched the replay 5 times. To say Sam was wide-open for a great look is a major, major stretch. There was a split second, when Markus started his move, that he could have kicked out to Sam probably about 28 feet from the hoop; but had he waited even a half-second after that, Ponds would have stolen the pass. And Joey was being used as a decoy far away and was not open; he cut into the middle very late but Markus was already shot-committed. I don't mind a playmaker like Markus not forcing a pass to either Hauser; I just wish he'd have Rowseyed!
7. My only really big strategic difference from what Wojo did tonight: I would have double-teamed Ponds to get/keep the ball out of his hands on that last possession. I wouldn't even have been crushed if somebody else got it, went to the hoop and we fouled. And I sure as heck would have had Theo and/or Sam hugging the lane to cut off a Ponds drive ... and taken my chances with any other Johnny shooting a 3 had Ponds kicked it. Anybody but Ponds there would have been my goal.
8. One bad luck play that was kind of a microcosm of the night: Sacar gets an offensive rebound and dishes to Markus for a wide-open 3, but a touch-foul is called on StJ instead. Sacar then misses the front end of the 1-and-1. So instead of 3, we get bupkis.
9. Best game of the season for JCS. That's what we were hoping we were getting when we brought him in. I'll take 16 more of those please! Also a superb contribution from Morrow.
10. I appreciate Joey's contribution this season as much as anybody does, and I am on the record numerous times as saying I think he's gonna be a stud for us and an eventual NBAer. But he was on a milk carton tonight. 0-for-3 and 1 reb in 24 minutes, and all kinds of trouble keeping up with the players he was trying to defend. I still think he's gonna be a stud, but I sometimes have to remind myself that he's a freshman and nowhere near a finished product. Rooting for him to bounce back strong against Nova, and I think he will.
11. We rebounded well most of the night. Only gave up 7 offensive boards. Unfortunately, 2 came on that one effen possession.
12. Still very high on this team. Couldn't make a shot, fell behind by 15 but battled back. There are no moral victories, but there are character tests, and we passed.
13. We're beating Nova on Saturday. Go Marquette!
-
3. Chartouny looked solid. Maybe his beat game of the year. And Wojo rode him.
6. Sacar was bad tonight. Until the big shot. And then he fell on his butt on the biggest defensive possession of the game.
8. This team doesn't stink. Wojo shouldn't be fired.
3 - Chartouny showed up tonight. He had some nice shot fakes early that seemed to keep the defense on their toes. What I don't get, though, is why Wojo had Markus bringing the ball up so much late in the 2nd half when things had been running well through JC. I would have liked to have seen more Chartouny.
6 - Was Sacar really that bad? I though he played a decent game. The missed FTs hurt for sure, but he was 5-8 from the floor and had 4 or 5 boards. The late foul on the 3 was bad, but outside of that, his D wasn't too bad. (let's just never talk about that late slip again)
8 - Wojo has certainly proven himself to any doubters, myself included, this year. There were some things down the stretch that I didn't really understand, but after he found a way to claw us back into the game after a 15 point deficit, it's hard to be too critical. I do think more BB or JC late in the game instead of one of Theo or Sacar could have helped, given their FT issues. And for the life of me, I just don't understand all the Jamal DNPs lately. But those are nitpicky things in a season full of great moments. I think he'll find the right way to use this as a motivator for Nova.
-
+1
https://twitter.com/robdauster/status/1092992385481617409
That angle gives some evidence for the Joey got fouled on the rebound. I know a foul is a foul at any time but I still don't think 95% of refs call that.
-
The only reason Joey doesn’t come down with that rebound is that he got hit from the side. After the Ponds ‘and one’ play, I’m not surprised. I was sitting with a Badger fan at the game (don’t ask) who turned to me after the Ponds play and said, “I thought this was Marquette’s arena.” That says it all. Plenty of blame to go around, but this was about as badly one-sided as we’ve seen a game this year. I’m not even sure Markus gets the call if he does a Rowsey on that last shot.
-
The only reason Joey doesn’t come down with that rebound is that he got hit from the side. After the Ponds ‘and one’ play, I’m not surprised. I was sitting with a Badger fan at the game (don’t ask) who turned to me after the Ponds play and said, “I thought this was Marquette’s arena.” That says it all. Plenty of blame to go around, but this was about as badly one-sided as we’ve seen a game this year.
Nah. I didn't like that they gave Ponds continuation when they didn't give similar to Markus earlier in the game, and I was surprised (to the point of shouting at the TV) that they didn't call traveling on Ponds when he slid with the ball on the floor ... but refs didn't lose this one.
We had plenty of chances. There were some bad calls, but several Johnnies were in foul trouble, we got into the bonus before they did in the second half, etc. And I agree with TAMU that few if any refs would have called that foul on a rebound scramble.
-
Right...nowhere in my post did I say the refs lost this one, but there were two egregiously bad calls prior to that last possession, and the missed foul call at the end changed possession, so it should be called. Some nights players overcome those calls - tonight they did not.
-
Jamie Luckie gave the continuation (and I'm still not sure where the foul was) and is generally an awful referee
That said, MU's execution cost them tonight. Not the whistles.
-
If cain gets no pt in that kind of game he might as well try and transfer out next year and i wouldnt blame him. Unless hes got some academic / punishment issue going on i think he needs to get out there or its a waste of a scholarship. Give the kid a couple poss. to make an impact
-
8 - Wojo has certainly proven himself to any doubters, myself included, this year. There were some things down the stretch that I didn't really understand, but after he found a way to claw us back into the game after a 15 point deficit, it's hard to be too critical. I do think more BB or JC late in the game instead of one of Theo or Sacar could have helped, given their FT issues. And for the life of me, I just don't understand all the Jamal DNPs lately. But those are nitpicky things in a season full of great moments. I think he'll find the right way to use this as a motivator for Nova.
Yeah, have to give credit to Wojo this year, but I do not get Cain's 4 DNPs already in Big East play, nor Heldt's 4 DNPs too. Cain has played 7 minutes in the last 6 games combined. He has two fewer rebounds in BE play than Bailey who has played 60 more minutes than he has. Couldn't Cain's length have helped for at least a couple minutes tonight on the D end?
-
Not going to lose the plot over this one, but it is too bad that we came out flat against a team we've already seen. From what I read, no real adjustments to the scheme to counter what they did to Markus in NY, so SJU did the same thing again with the same success.
Let's hope we don't run into Indiana in the tourney.
That said, if we take care of business against 'Nova this will still be a good 4 game stretch and we can still stay on our 3 line with a shot at a 2.
Lose against Nova and we're probably talking the 4 or 5 line, which was pretty on par with most people's preseason expectations. Frankly I'm pretty agnostic between a 3 and a 6 seed - all give about the same shot at the second weekend and each is as likely to draw easy/tough match ups.
-
Maybe they didnt. That said, a ton of wide open 3s missed tonight. The looks were there. If sam makes 1 more of his first 8 (all pretty wide) it is a win. Sometimes the shots dont fall. Still were there at the end.
Sacars wide open uncontested layup?
-
19-4. Life will go on. Clearly, there were things MU didn't do. Clearly there are things SJU does that frustrate Marquette. Learn, move on.
-
19-4. Life will go on. Clearly, there were things MU didn't do. Clearly there are things SJU does that frustrate Marquette. Learn, move on.
Easier said then done, this one is going to leave me salty for quite awhile...Saturday doesn't have the juice it would have now for one thing. For another MSU keeps losing and had MU kept winning they may have had a very realistic shot at a #2 seed in the NCAA's..who knows now. Dammit this one stings...did not see this one coming...at all.
-
All losses leave you salty.
-
Biggest issue for this game all singular plays aside is Mu did not cone out with the toughness or intensity needed to win a game agaunst a big time opponent.
15 minutes in we gained it but the deficit proved too much.
Show up ready to go to war on Saturday n i like our chances
-
All losses leave you salty.
You're right...and they should leave EVERYONE salty...Unfortunately, most of you wake up today and just carry on with that "oh well" attitude.
-
19-4. Life to live today.
-
Was at the game. Losses happen but boy oh boy did we have our chances. There were quite a few missed lay ups, missed free throws and markus’s last shot... why didn’t he jump into his defender. Oye.
But hey, 8-2. Let’s beat nova hopefully.
-
You're right...and they should leave EVERYONE salty...Unfortunately, most of you wake up today and just carry on with that "oh well" attitude.
Because if all the fans are pissed off all day then MU has a better chance of winning on Saturday.
-
Was at the game. Losses happen but boy oh boy did we have our chances. There were quite a few missed lay ups, missed free throws and markus’s last shot... why didn’t he jump into his defender. Oye.
But hey, 8-2. Let’s beat nova hopefully.
I may be in the minority, but I don't think Markus would have drawn the foul if he would have jumped into him. Just the way the night was going. All is well if we beat Nova on Saturday. If we do, the conference championship is still within reach.
-
68% from the freethrow line.. not good
-
1 other thing, our D was great. O was terrible. We were down 15 at one point in the second half. Got as close as you can get without winning. Can’t complain about the effort in the comeback. But woof, that free throw shooting.
-
That was our best bad game of the year. Morrow played solid...maybe JC...nobody else really did. To have a chance to win, to me, was remarkable.
Markus’ bad games are getting WAY better and I think that’s Wojo.
Looking forward to Saturday
-
That was our best bad game of the year. Morrow played solid...maybe JC...nobody else really did. To have a chance to win, to me, was remarkable.
Markus’ bad games are getting WAY better and I think that’s Wojo.
Looking forward to Saturday
Agreed. We had no business even being close enough to win.
JC was great I thought!
-
Box Score
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083261
-
68% from the freethrow line.. not good
Eh. If we shot our average it would have only meant 2 more points. If we shot our average from 3 it would have meant 6 more points. If we held them to their average 2P FG% it would have meant 4 less points for them. Turnovers weren't bad but I think they scored 19 points off of them, so they scored 2 points per turnover. 1 less turnover and we win the game. FTs were a factor but they were very low on the list of reasons why we lost the game.
-
That was our best bad game of the year. Morrow played solid...maybe JC...nobody else really did. To have a chance to win, to me, was remarkable.
Markus’ bad games are getting WAY better and I think that’s Wojo.
Looking forward to Saturday
Gotta love how this team never says die. Most here were ready to throw in the towel when we were down 15 with about 13 minutes left. Team scratched and clawed all the way back to a lead. Just sad they couldn't hold it. I thought Wojo did great devising the comeback until that last defensive play on Ponds. Running two guys at him had success earlier. Needed to not leave Sacar on an island there. Maybe if we were up two and the worst that could happen on a drive was a tie, but not when a Ponds layup gives them the lead.
-
Gotta love how this team never says die. Most here were ready to throw in the towel when we were down 15 with about 13 minutes left. Team scratched and clawed all the way back to a lead. Just sad they couldn't hold it. I thought Wojo did great devising the comeback until that last defensive play on Ponds. Running two guys at him had success earlier. Needed to not leave Sacar on an island there. Maybe if we were up two and the worst that could happen on a drive was a tie, but not when a Ponds layup gives them the lead.
Any thought that the double was going to come, but Sacar falling down opened such a huge lane that the help didn't have time?
-
Any thought that the double was going to come, but Sacar falling down opened such a huge lane that the help didn't have time?
I think this may be it. I was quite surprised that Ponds started as soon as he did, they left us a lot of time to get a decent look. StJ strikes me as the kind of team that would wait too long and take a tough contested buzzer beater, credit to Mullin (or whichever assistant is really the HC).
-
68% from the freethrow line.. not good
Markus, Sam, and Joey combined to go 11/12. That's fine.
Theo went 6/10. For him, that's fine.
Anim 0/3, including missing the front end of the bonus. This is the one performance that stings. When Sacar missed the 1-and-1, I had that feeling it would come back to bite us.
But lots of things could have made the difference in this game. Missed layups, the end of the first half, 1st half turnovers, etc.
-
68% from the freethrow line.. not good
Unfortunately, the wrong guys kept getting fouled. I wouldn’t say it was an off night from the line as much as we have some really good and pretty poor free throw shooters. The wrong ones were getting fouled, and it cost us crucial possessions.
-
Markus, Sam, and Joey combined to go 11/12. That's fine.
Theo went 6/10. For him, that's fine.
Anim 0/3, including missing the front end of the bonus. This is the one performance that stings. When Sacar missed the 1-and-1, I had that feeling it would come back to bite us.
But lots of things could have made the difference in this game. Missed layups, the end of the first half, 1st half turnovers, etc.
I think the end of the 1st half hurt quite a bit. Chance to cut it to 5 or 6, Markus get blocked, and StJ gets it up to 10. Much different mindset going into half with a double digit defect. Glad we fought back the way we did, but that 20 second stretch hurt almost as much as the one to end the 2nd half.
-
In every other close game this season, things fell/went our way at the end. It's why we were top 30 in the nation in KenPom's luck factor. We were due to lose one like this. No need to panic or draw too much from this loss.
If we follow it up with a loss Saturday, that would hurt, because it pretty much ends any hope for a conference title and puts us more in a 4 or 5 seed range with a tough climb back to the 3 line.
-
That angle gives some evidence for the Joey got fouled on the rebound. I know a foul is a foul at any time but I still don't think 95% of refs call that.
95% of refs also don’t call that garbage 3 point foul on Ponds late in the game, and 80%+ don’t give him the bucket on that garbage continuation call. We were due for one.
-
I think this may be it. I was quite surprised that Ponds started as soon as he did, they left us a lot of time to get a decent look. StJ strikes me as the kind of team that would wait too long and take a tough contested buzzer beater, credit to Mullin (or whichever assistant is really the HC).
When you're down, I think you go right away. Furthermore with the way SJU was crashing the offensive boards, I'm sure they thought they could get another chance.
-
When you're down, I think you go right away. Furthermore with the way SJU was crashing the offensive boards, I'm sure they thought they could get another chance.
I would have started with about 10 seconds left. Gives you time for a tip-in, or even a O-board and kick to shooter, without giving the opposing team much time to go the length of the court. If Markus had hit that last shot, or we had gotten something out of that possession to take the led with >3 seconds left, I think you could seriously question Mullins decision to have Ponds start so soon. It worked out for them, but they left us too much time IMO. I would hope that Wojo wouldn't coach that situation the way Mullin did if the roles were reversed.
-
Johnnie's are a very fast team. We are not. Their fast hands gets us out of rhythm and we then missed shots. Until the end of the game our D did not push them out of their comfort zone. The J's go to their shooting positions under the basket and did their thing.
Even with all of that working against us and our poor shooting we still came close. How close, well if Sacar and/or Theo learn how to shoot foul shots like Matt learned over a summer we win. Theo is going to be fouled more and more as he dominates under the boards. We need him to make foul shots. He should talk to Matt. If Matt can do it Theo and Sacar can. Put in the time this summer please. We need you.l
-
Joey Hauser was not good last night. Did not make a basket, lack of lateral quickness exposed on defense. He's a freshman. He will get better. Dodd's always talks about 'the freshman wall'. Perhaps.
-
I think the end of the 1st half hurt quite a bit. Chance to cut it to 5 or 6, Markus get blocked, and StJ gets it up to 10. Much different mindset going into half with a double digit defect. Glad we fought back the way we did, but that 20 second stretch hurt almost as much as the one to end the 2nd half.
Good call. I meant to bring that one up. Joey was standing there ready for the kickout and wide open look. You could see that developing and I was thinking we are going to go into the half down 5, and it was 10 in a blink. Markus did have a clear path but they blocked that easily. That was a huge sequence in the game. St. John’s made a lot of big plays when it looked like we had something going before we finally got over the hump...briefly.
-
It wasn't his best night, honestly I thought one of the biggest problems was his defense on Simon in the first half. Dude got whatever he wanted. I thought this was one of Markus' better games distributing the ball. 3 turnovers when you play 39 minutes and have the ball in your hands every possession is solid.
In the first half, he made a terrible lazy pass to Sam that was deflected into the back court and created a shot clock violation. That was a team TO but should be assigned to him.
Truly thought he had 5-6 TOs last night.
-
In the first half, he made a terrible lazy pass to Sam that was deflected into the back court and created a shot clock violation. That was a team TO but should be assigned to him.
Truly thought he had 5-6 TOs last night.
I thought there was another one that Sam got tagged with where Markus clearly threw the pass behind Sam.
-
In the first half, he made a terrible lazy pass to Sam that was deflected into the back court and created a shot clock violation. That was a team TO but should be assigned to him.
Truly thought he had 5-6 TOs last night.
Yes, the official scorer was rather generous to Markus.
-
In the first half, he made a terrible lazy pass to Sam that was deflected into the back court and created a shot clock violation. That was a team TO but should be assigned to him.
Truly thought he had 5-6 TOs last night.
Markus was clearly off his game last night. I would've liked to see Bailey on Ponds more at the end of the game. Thought his length and height was more disruptive on Ponds than Sacar was.
Unfortunately, it was an off night versus a team that we don't match up well with. A win on Saturday and we are still in great shape.
-
Markus fd the whole thing up, as soon as he lost his dribble i knew it was gonna be a crap show. REally really bad night by Markus.
That was my thinking at the time. I think he had a bad shooting night, but `did some good things sharing/moving the ball, etc.
-
I think a lot of what everyone is saying about why we lost is true. To me, we played like we always do. Sacar is gonna miss layups after nice moves and some FTs. It is what he does. Markus is gonna try some impossible passes and get them stolen. Its what he does. We're gonna fumble some rebounds, it is what we do.
Big difference last night is that we missed a lot more open shots than we usually do. I think, particularly in the first half, we were giving them too much credit and doing things too fast, rushing open shots, etc.
-
Win on Saturday and everything is fine. Get a big win and build some momentum going into DePaul. Huge crowd on NMD, I think we get the win
-
I think this may be it. I was quite surprised that Ponds started as soon as he did, they left us a lot of time to get a decent look. StJ strikes me as the kind of team that would wait too long and take a tough contested buzzer beater, credit to Mullin (or whichever assistant is really the HC).
This is a good point. Its possible that the plan was to throw a double team once the clock got down a little farther. Ponds did attack quite quickly.
-
95% of refs also don’t call that garbage 3 point foul on Ponds late in the game, and 80%+ don’t give him the bucket on that garbage continuation call. We were due for one.
Eh....I went back and looked at that 3 point foul. Anim got him on the body. I think that's closer to a 50/50 call then 95% don't call it. Absolutely agree on the continuation.
While the refs did us no favors in the final 3 minutes, I would say overall we got more calls than SJU. We don't get back in the game without some of the help we got from the stripes.
-
Eh....I went back and looked at that 3 point foul. Anim got him on the body. I think that's closer to a 50/50 call then 95% don't call it. Absolutely agree on the continuation.
While the refs did us no favors in the final 3 minutes, I would say overall we got more calls than SJU. We don't get back in the game without some of the help we got from the stripes.
Agreed with all of that. And given the circumstances of Sam's shot against Creighton, I'll have a hard time getting overly worked up on "the refs screwed us" angle the rest of the season!
-
Joey Hauser was not good last night. Did not make a basket, lack of lateral quickness exposed on defense. He's a freshman. He will get better. Dodd's always talks about 'the freshman wall'. Perhaps.
Joey is going to be fine. SJU is just a very quick team and Joey is a bit slow. Bad matchup for Joey. Athletic teams will get the better of him.
-
You're right...and they should leave EVERYONE salty...Unfortunately, most of you wake up today and just carry on with that "oh well" attitude.
So were you that cat in 225 that audibly called our guys "F*CKING CLOWNS" after the buzzer last night?
-
Joey is going to be fine. SJU is just a very quick team and Joey is a bit slow. Bad matchup for Joey. Athletic teams will get the better of him.
Agreed. Bullish on him long term.
-
Agreed. Bullish on him long term.
Joey in a year ir two defensively is not the same as joey now, just look at sam and theo and even markus....and pretty much every other college player ever
-
Joey will be a stud. He already has had many fine moments. None of them came last night. It's OK to say he had a poor game. I predict he'll bounce back strong against Nova.
-
Yes, Joey is going to be great long term. Bad match up last night. Minutes might be wearing on him a bit. He is the youngest player on the team too, so he has to get used to the college grind.
-
You're right...and they should leave EVERYONE salty...Unfortunately, most of you wake up today and just carry on with that "oh well" attitude.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Hide the gun. Hide the rope. Hide the pills. Guru ain’t havin this loss business!!
-
I think we're in for another rough one on Saturday as Nova plays a lot like the Johnnies and perhaps just as athletic. Hope we have an answer... like hitting our open shots.
-
Can't play so poorly for an entire half -- giving up 40 points and shooting around 30% -- THEN let your opponent run the lead up to 15 before finally getting serious about the game.
Yes, Marquette has come back from similar deficits this season. Yes, there will be nights that the shooting just isn't there. But the defense wasn't there, either. The team hurt its chances to win right out of the gate. And you can't count on a big comeback every time.
Great teams don't just play 15 minutes of good basketball. Gotta do a lot better against Nova.
-
hitting our open shots
This. So much this.
If we had simply done that at anything close to our normal rate, we would have won by 15. We didn't need to shoot lights out or hit highly contested shots, just the stuff we normally hit.
Sometimes shooters just have off nights. The rest of the game analysis is just noise.
-
I think we're in for another rough one on Saturday as Nova plays a lot like the Johnnies and perhaps just as athletic. Hope we have an answer... like hitting our open shots.
I don't think comparing St. John's and Villanova is correct. VERY different teams.
-
I don't think comparing St. John's and Villanova is correct. VERY different teams.
Yeah. They both play small at times but Nova plays with a true big in DCR about 50% of the time. Nova is capable of shooting the lights out but they aren't very good defensively. Nova plays VERY slow. 340th in offensive possession length. SJU is 17th.
I think we match up pretty well with Nova this year and expect a win Saturday.
-
muwarrior69
I think we are in for a tough one as well. IMO, aside from SJU, MU has had a nice run against average to slightly above average teams and that run ends on Saturday. If they shoot well, they can win, if they don't shoot well, it might be a double digit defeat.
-
gotta have at least two of our guys splashing threes to beat nova.
Im a little worried that we now have at least two "hack a shaq" players on the floor that basically turn the ball over.
No excuses for sacar at the line, he should be doing nothing but shooting free throws in practice, at least theo has finish flush potential at the rim, the missed layups / finishes by sacar are becoming the standard.
-
So were you that cat in 225 that audibly called our guys "F*CKING CLOWNS" after the buzzer last night?
Absolutely NOT...
-
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Hide the gun. Hide the rope. Hide the pills. Guru ain’t havin this loss business!!
I'm glad a loss is funny to you...My day has literally sucked today because of that loss last night...it will suck for the next couple as well..how many others can say the same??
-
I'm glad a loss is funny to you...My day has literally sucked today because of that loss last night...it will suck for the next couple as well..how many others can say the same??
Let me guess, the last acceptable season by any school was Indiana in 1976? Every other school has been massive disappointments every season since then.
-
I'm glad a loss is funny to you...My day has literally sucked today because of that loss last night...it will suck for the next couple as well..how many others can say the same??
Are you saying that’s a good thing?
-
I'm glad a loss is funny to you...My day has literally sucked today because of that loss last night...it will suck for the next couple as well..how many others can say the same??
Oh you thought I was laughing about the loss? Nah man, I’m laughing at you
-
Oh you thought I was laughing about the loss? Nah man, I’m laughing at you
Right...you are laughing at me because of how hard I take losses...which says all that needs to be said..It implies they don't matter much to you.
-
Right...you are laughing at me because of how hard I take losses...which says all that needs to be said..It implies they don't matter much to you.
I’ve seen my kids handle adversity better. And they’re all under 10
-
Agreed we can win Saturday if we shoot well but one of those players shooting well has to be Joey. He is the difference,in my opinion, of this team being truly elite offensively. If we want to beat teams like Villanova, have a chance at winning the Bigeast regular season or tournament and make a sweet sixteen run THIS year he needs to get over the “wall” quickly. No one else on this team has the ability to accelerate our progress to elite status more than him. We all know next year will be great. This year being great depends on him performing better than should be expected of a freshman.
-
I haven't read any Scoop since the loss...I am in pout mode. I hate losing. I hate losing to St. Johns.
hopefully its a sunny day on Saturday.
-
Right...you are laughing at me because of how hard I take losses...which says all that needs to be said..It implies they don't matter much to you.
Guru, I truly hope that someday you are able to evaluate your self worth by something other than Marquette wins and losses.
If you ever need to talk, holla at me in PM, honestly.
-
I'm glad a loss is funny to you...My day has literally sucked today because of that loss last night...it will suck for the next couple as well..how many others can say the same??
LOL. "I'm emotionally immature, how many of you can proudly say the same??"
-
Now now, I think everyone should lay off Guru. I get what he is trying to say. I personally used to scream at the tv, and make an ass of myself when MU would do anything other then score points. Turnovers, missing free throws, etc...
I really think I was taking it to an unhealthy level. I still probably do when we play uw-madison.
I guess as I age I try to keep things in perspective. not being home for a family members birthday, or something like that now tears me up a lot more then MU basketball. And I still care as much as I used to Guru, I guess with age, Id like to think I understand life is short and precious.
It’s not healthy to get so bent out of shape over an MU loss. I hope you find a better way to cope with the losses then I was. If venting on here is your way of escape, please keep it up. We’re all brothers and sisters on here
-
Now now, I think everyone should lay off Guru. I get what he is trying to say. I personally used to scream at the tv, and make an ass of myself when MU would do anything other then score points. Turnovers, missing free throws, etc...
I really think I was taking it to an unhealthy level. I still probably do when we play uw-madison.
I guess as I age I try to keep things in perspective. not being home for a family members birthday, or something like that now tears me up a lot more then MU basketball. And I still care as much as I used to Guru, I guess with age, Id like to think I understand life is short and precious.
It’s not healthy to get so bent out of shape over an MU loss. I hope you find a better way to cope with the losses then I was. If venting on here is your way of escape, please keep it up. We’re all brothers and sisters on here
I agree with everything you say here, pilot, even the part about it being OK for guru to vent here.
The only part that I and some others object to is guru's repeated suggestions that his agonizing over every MU mistake, every miss, every change of possession and especially every loss somehow makes him more of a fan than the rest of us. He is not.
It would be like me responding to an argument with my wife by killing her. While on trial, I'd say, "Yeah, I killed her. That's because I loved my wife more than any other man loves his wife. If the rest of you are OK with your wife arguing with you, that's up to you. But I'm not OK with it, and I took care of it the way I did."
-
I'm glad a loss is funny to you...My day has literally sucked today because of that loss last night...it will suck for the next couple as well..how many others can say the same??
Seek help, dude.
-
Seek help, dude.
I agree, there is something wrong if a loss in sports affects someone negatively for days. How is one’s life that empty of anything else that could cause joy? It’s sad if you think about. Hang in there Guru
-
Eh....I went back and looked at that 3 point foul. Anim got him on the body. I think that's closer to a 50/50 call then 95% don't call it. Absolutely agree on the continuation.
While the refs did us no favors in the final 3 minutes, I would say overall we got more calls than SJU. We don't get back in the game without some of the help we got from the stripes.
For sure. Wasn’t saying that we got screwed by the refs last night. I thought we played pretty awful for the majority of the game. But I do think that Joey was pretty clearly fouled on his attempted rebound after Markus’ failed hero ball attempt.
-
I'm glad a loss is funny to you...My day has literally sucked today because of that loss last night...it will suck for the next couple as well..how many others can say the same??
My day sucked because I worked from 8 til now. But alright.
-
I'm glad a loss is funny to you...My day has literally sucked today because of that loss last night...it will suck for the next couple as well..how many others can say the same??
Even the players in the actual game generally have a midnight rule. I'm upset after losses and they've ruined my dinner or made a drink taste bad but after midnight it's a new day and it's on to the next game
-
Even the players in the actual game generally have a midnight rule.
Clearly, they don't care enough.
-
Clearly, they don't care enough.
Not sure about college athletes, but I think fans care more than players at the professional level.
-
Let me clear up some obvious misconception...first of all, losses do NOT effect me to the extent that I would kill myself or cause harm in anyway. Second of all..perhaps the biggest misconception here is that I think I'm a bigger fan than anyone else..That is simply NOT true. (Though I would argue just based on posts on this board I AM much more competitive than a vast majority here). I am just incredibly passionate about MU hoops, anyone close to me understands that, and that's the way I have always been. I just find it a little baffling that if ANYONE has ever played sports at any level from HS on, that even now in their later years and even as a fan that they could just "lose" that competitive gene. I have always had it..I absolutely ABHOR losing...I don't care if it's MU basketball or anything else in life. Show me a former athlete that isn't uber competitive even long after he has stopped playing. If you can, I would simply say then that winning or losing wasn't all that important to them.
So because of my competitive nature, I will ALWAYS take losing harder then some. Especially with MU basketball. I will not apologize to anyone for it being such a high priority for me, I'm in a position where it can be, where I don't have to miss games for other things etc. I understand that most of you aren't in that position, and that's okay too.
I'm happy with my life where it currently is, and anyone that knows me will tell any of you I am a great guy..I'd do anything for anyone, and have in the past. I'm not some crazed lunatic some of you seem to think that I am. I take offense to those that think I handle "losing" wrong, or that I should "seek help". That's as condescending as anything I have ever heard. Leave me alone and let me do my thing..It's not hurting anyone or anything..as I said in a previous post...show me a good loser, and I will show you a loser. I would tell those that if losing doesn't bother them..then don't have favorite teams etc. Losing at ANYTHING should bother EVERYONE. We all show it in different ways, but I just get the impression from some here that they really don't care if MU wins or loses. How can you be a fan of any team like that??
P.S. I have forgotten more about basketball then most here will ever know, which means..I have been around long enough, and I'm guessing, I am at least double the age of the average age'd user here. So for those of you "youngins" with your holier than thou attitudes, have some damn respect for your elders!!
I don't like being told what should or should NOT be important to me..What's important to you is great! That however does NOT mean different things can't be important to me...Marquette basketball is INCREDIBLY important to me...What the hell is wrong with that, if I am not "sacrificing" anything or putting other things aside because of it??
-
Wait, what? MU82 might kill his wife and guru, great guy and all, will give me his tickets to Nova?
-
guru, my friend, you aren't double my age because that would make you one of the oldest humans alive. So let's start there. Second, I'm glad to hear you believe your mental health is good, that you're not a lunatic, you don't get suicidal after a basketball game, etc. Also happy to hear you are an altruistic gentleman who would give others the shirt off your ancient back.
As to whether you "have forgotten more about basketball then most here will ever know" ... well, it's ironic that you call others condescending in the same post where you make this unproveable, Ners-level claim.
Finally, we get to this: perhaps the biggest misconception here is that I think I'm a bigger fan than anyone else..That is simply NOT true.
Many of us arrive at this by statements like those you made in this very thread, such as ...
Unfortunately, most of you wake up today and just carry on with that "oh well" attitude.
... and ...
My day has literally sucked today because of that loss last night...it will suck for the next couple as well..how many others can say the same??
If you don't read those as, "I'm a better fan than you. I care about the Warriors more than you do. Why do the rest of you losers even bother rooting for them if you aren't gonna feel miserable after a loss?" I guess it simply means you haven't forgotten more about using the English language than most here will ever know.
Carry on, my friend, and try to enjoy what has been an entertaining, successful season.
-
guru, my friend, you aren't double my age because that would make you one of the oldest humans alive. So let's start there. Second, I'm glad to hear you believe your mental health is good, that you're not a lunatic, you don't get suicidal after a basketball game, etc. Also happy to hear you are an altruistic gentleman who would give others the shirt off your ancient back.
As to whether you "have forgotten more about basketball then most here will ever know" ... well, it's ironic that you call others condescending in the same post where you make this unproveable, Ners-level claim.
Finally, we get to this: perhaps the biggest misconception here is that I think I'm a bigger fan than anyone else..That is simply NOT true.
Many of us arrive at this by statements like those you made in this very thread, such as ...
Unfortunately, most of you wake up today and just carry on with that "oh well" attitude.
... and ...
My day has literally sucked today because of that loss last night...it will suck for the next couple as well..how many others can say the same??
If you don't read those as, "I'm a better fan than you. I care about the Warriors more than you do. Why do the rest of you losers even bother rooting for them if you aren't gonna feel miserable after a loss?" I guess it simply means you haven't forgotten more about using the English language than most here will ever know.
Carry on, my friend, and try to enjoy what has been an entertaining, successful season.
I etited to add, that I do believe I am simply more competitive than most here, just based on posts. Although, if we are going to judge "best fan" by how much MU apparel they have...I am 99% certain there that I have EVERYONE here beat on that. It's a disgusting amount really. ;D
-
You be you, guru. Be happy, brood, be you. I just ask one thing. Remember that, aside from a couple of obvious trolls, nobody would be on this site if they weren't already a committed MU fan. Everyone wants Marquette to be great in basketball. Some just manage their emotions differently after a loss.
-
I etited to add, that I do believe I am simply more competitive than most here, just based on posts.
Another claim that is impossible to either prove or disprove. If you measure competitiveness by kicking and screaming on an anonymous message board then sure, you're more "competitive". You could also say that means that you really lack any composure whatsoever.
Although, if we are going to judge "best fan" by how much MU apparel they have...I am 99% certain there that I have EVERYONE here beat on that. It's a disgusting amount really. ;D
Weird flex but okay.
-
Another claim that is impossible to either prove or disprove. If you measure competitiveness by kicking and screaming on an anonymous message board then sure, you're more "competitive". You could also say that means that you really lack any composure whatsoever.
Weird flex but okay.
According to the most recent rankings I am the 11th best Marquette fan. However, should we lose Saturday, I have a glorious hissy fit planned that will move me into the top 10.
-
According to the most recent rankings I am the 11th best Marquette fan. However, should we lose Saturday, I have a glorious hissy fit planned that will move me into the top 10.
This is awesome!
-
I etited to add, that I do believe I am simply more competitive than most here, just based on posts. Although, if we are going to judge "best fan" by how much MU apparel they have...I am 99% certain there that I have EVERYONE here beat on that. It's a disgusting amount really. ;D
5 years ago I would've taken you on in this argument but before I moved to ireland I got rid of something like 20-25 MU shirts, a few jackets, socks, hats, sweat bands, and workout gear.
-
I etited to add, that I do believe I am simply more competitive than most here, just based on posts. Although, if we are going to judge "best fan" by how much MU apparel they have...I am 99% certain there that I have EVERYONE here beat on that. It's a disgusting amount really. ;D
I've asked this before, but how does rooting for a particular team make you, or anyone, competitive? Unless you are the coach, a player, or one of the administrators, YOU aren't competing anymore than you'd be competing by picking a turtle in the race at the local fair. You have absolutely no impact on the outcome, no matter how hard you take a loss, so in what way are you competing?
Looking down on people because they don't freak out like you do after a loss, or even a few bad sequences, and then justifying your behavior by claiming it's because you are so competitive doesn't even make sense. You've chosen to pin yourself with a badge of honor in order to convince yourself that your reaction is somehow a positive attribute while disparaging those that realize it is a game in which they have absolutely no control over the outcome.
-
I had a brother in law (passed away in August, 2017), an MU undergrad and law school grad, who used to say if the Packers lost and the Bears won on the same weekend, that the rest of the week sucked. But he didn't carry it over into his everyday thoughts after saying it.......even though what he said is true.
-
I etited to add, that I do believe I am simply more competitive than most here, just based on posts. Although, if we are going to judge "best fan" by how much MU apparel they have...I am 99% certain there that I have EVERYONE here beat on that. It's a disgusting amount really. ;D
I like the sense of humor in your clothing statement, guru.
But again, as others have said, the fact that you throw things, scream, pout and let yourself be miserable for days after a loss doesn't make you more "competitive" than anybody else, either. It again is you trying to claim superiority on something that can't be proven. The fact that you take to a fan site to rip or mock others who aren't as over-the-top angry as you, that's just kinda sad.
But sure, maybe you are only one glorious hissy fit from joining Irwin in the top 10!
Keep on keepin' on, my friend. Perspective is highly overrated.
-
I don’t understand the “I’m more competitive than you” thing at all as it relates to being a sports fan.
Watching MU games isn’t engaging in competition. You’re not on the team, you have no control over the outcome. You’re watching others compete.
There is a distinct difference between having an emotional investment in the outcome of a sporting event as a fan and engaging in competition.
-
5 years ago I would've taken you on in this argument but before I moved to ireland I got rid of something like 20-25 MU shirts, a few jackets, socks, hats, sweat bands, and workout gear.
Really...20-25, last time I emptied out the MU gear locker(who else has one of those, Mr. Competitive?) I got rid of 26-31 MU shirts, many not few jackets and literally a metric ton of other gear. When I had my appendix removed I had "Warriors" laser etched on my pancreas.
I am 250 years old been and MU hoops fan for 250+ and have forgotten more while writing this post than of you will EVER know about basketball
I am such a competitive fan(is there really such a thing?) that if we lose to VU I will make myself spontaneously combust!
Anybody???......Yeah, that's what I thought. I will sit here the rest of the day stewing in my competitive juices....
By the way, you all are collectively the best....
-
Really...20-25, last time I emptied out the MU gear locker(who else has one of those, Mr. Competitive?) I got rid of 26-31 MU shirts, many not few jackets and literally a metric ton of other gear. When I had my appendix removed I had "Warriors" laser etched on my pancreas.
I am 250 years old been and MU hoops fan for 250+ and have forgotten more while writing this post than of you will EVER know about basketball
I am such a competitive fan(is there really such a thing?) that if we lose to VU I will make myself spontaneously combust!
Anybody???......Yeah, that's what I thought. I will sit here the rest of the day stewing in my competitive juices....
By the way, you all are collectively the best....
I honestly assumed this was a real guru post until I accidentally glanced at the poster name after I finished reading.
-
Really...20-25, last time I emptied out the MU gear locker(who else has one of those, Mr. Competitive?) I got rid of 26-31 MU shirts, many not few jackets and literally a metric ton of other gear. When I had my appendix removed I had "Warriors" laser etched on my pancreas.
I am 250 years old been and MU hoops fan for 250+ and have forgotten more while writing this post than of you will EVER know about basketball
I am such a competitive fan(is there really such a thing?) that if we lose to VU I will make myself spontaneously combust!
Anybody???......Yeah, that's what I thought. I will sit here the rest of the day stewing in my competitive juices....
By the way, you all are collectively the best....
Yeah but did Father Marquette come down from on high, in full MU regalia, and bless you on your baptism?
-
I've asked this before, but how does rooting for a particular team make you, or anyone, competitive? Unless you are the coach, a player, or one of the administrators, YOU aren't competing anymore than you'd be competing by picking a turtle in the race at the local fair. You have absolutely no impact on the outcome, no matter how hard you take a loss, so in what way are you competing?
Looking down on people because they don't freak out like you do after a loss, or even a few bad sequences, and then justifying your behavior by claiming it's because you are so competitive doesn't even make sense. You've chosen to pin yourself with a badge of honor in order to convince yourself that your reaction is somehow a positive attribute while disparaging those that realize it is a game in which they have absolutely no control over the outcome.
You(I) compete against badger fans...That's who I compete against. I absolutely LOATHE them, and want to stick it up their asses every single day. the better MU is, the more they HATE it, the more glorious it is. I want another National Championship not only because of how much I would be in the happiest place in the world, but because every single Badger fan would be absolutely MISERABLE and that my friend, is how I "compete".
-
Wait, what? MU82 might kill his wife and guru, great guy and all, will give me his tickets to Nova?
If I had extras, I most certainly would...I do this for the Badger game every year they play at home. :)
-
I had a brother in law (passed away in August, 2017), an MU undergrad and law school grad, who used to say if the Packers lost and the Bears won on the same weekend, that the rest of the week sucked. But he didn't carry it over into his everyday thoughts after saying it.......even though what he said is true.
This 1000% this...for example, you think MU losing to SJU made me salty?? I am even now more so because UW beat Minnesota last night. had they lost, that admittedly would have HELPED ease the sting from the SJU loss...It's a COMPETITION folks. If MU loses Saturday to Nova and UW goes into Michigan and wins...Well..no one would want to be around me...however, should MU lose to Nova and UW lose to Michigan...I won't like it, but it will sting just a bit less. If MU wins, and UW loses...I'm elated for weeks. :)
-
I absolutely LOATHE them, and want to stick it up their asses every single day.
whatever tickles your pickle just get consent
-
Yeah but did Father Marquette come down from on high, in full MU regalia, and bless you on your baptism?
Pere, as I like to call him, administered all 12 sacraments to me.....Like I said.....
-
I once saw Brad Davison walking down the sidewalk. I sidestepped into his way to draw a charge, then jumped to celebrate, punched him in the groin, and ran off screaming "That's payback for Joey!"
-
Pere, as I like to call him, administered all 12 sacraments to me.....Like I said.....
Père is French for "Father", and it can also be used as a priest title. True superfans no Fr. Marquette was named Jacques.
-
It's too bad some of you all aren't nicer to me...As a nice gesture I was going to have a "give away" of some of my "inventory" of MU stuff(including Warriors stuff, Dwade stuff etc) the deeper MU advanced in the tourney...including the grand prize(If MU cut down the nets) of a fantastic looking MU WARRIORS Winter jacket with the Warriors logo emblazoned on the back...but since most of you ridicule me because I'm freaking passionate about MU hoops(oh the horror!) I may rethink it.. :-\
-
and that my friend, is how I "compete".
To quote Inigo, I don't think that word means what you think it means.
-
Oh no, I lost a contest that I didn't even know I was entered in because I called someone out for their excessive pouting, and over the top temper tantrums.
-
muguru
I fully understand your feelings. Honestly, I think a lot of it has to do with the program has not had lofty success over many scoopers years as a fan. I remember vividly Rick Majerus bashing the guys for not taking losses hard when he was coach. When the guys were at The Gym Bar two hours after a loss he, and many guys from Al era, could not understand it. Back in the day, MU players would go to Ranch House on St. Paul after a loss, not to have fun, but to get away from everyone not tight with the program. Winning was a habit back then and losing was not taken well. I believe that if program builds a real winning tradition, fans will take losses a tad harder in the future. That said, simply a guess on my part.
In today's world, the players play a ton of games from a young age and few win all the time. I do not think losing is ever accepted, it is just responded to differently. As for me, I took MU loss extremely hard for a long time, but shake it off quicker now. Simple reason, my expectations are much lower than they were even 5-7 years ago. I think the last loss that shook me was Kansas in FF.That one stung for me.
-
muguru
I fully understand your feelings. Honestly, I think a lot of it has to do with the program has not had lofty success over many scoopers years as a fan. I remember vividly Rick Majerus bashing the guys for not taking losses hard when he was coach. When the guys were at The Gym Bar two hours after a loss he, and many guys from Al era, could not understand it. Back in the day, MU players would go to Ranch House on St. Paul after a loss, not to have fun, but to get away from everyone not tight with the program. Winning was a habit back then and losing was not taken well. I believe that if program builds a real winning tradition, fans will take losses a tad harder in the future. That said, simply a guess on my part.
In today's world, the players play a ton of games from a young age and few win all the time. I do not think losing is ever accepted, it is just responded to differently. As for me, I took MU loss extremely hard for a long time, but shake it off quicker now. Simple reason, my expectations are much lower than they were even 5-7 years ago. I think the last loss that shook me was Kansas in FF.That one stung for me.
You got it Goose...this is dead nuts on...This has become a problem in today's society..we teach kids that it is okay to lose. Why?? If losing is okay, and we teach our kids that is okay to lose..when do they then find the drive and desire to work harder, to get better, to strive to never feel that way again?? And you know what?? That's applicable in life as well as competition.
The problem today is(especially with younger ppl) if after losing a hard fought battle, and a Coach says "I want you all to think about how this feels, and ask yourselves if you ever want to feel like this again"?? A major problem is I think most would be like "okay, that sucked but eh..I have video games to go home and play" or whatever the case may be. It just doesn't sting enough, and it should! There are a lot of lessons to be learned from losing, and the feeling should sicken you to the point, you never want it to happen again.
The sad part is..what you said about having lower expectations might be the saddest part of it all..I think MANY now feel that way...Therefore, losses don't sting like they used to..Not many realize how close Buzz was to having this program on the cusp of great things..We as fans were conditioned to expect great things, because a vast majority of the time, they gave us that. It hasn't been that way since he left, and that is what I think many people relate to now..they have just come to accept that it will always be this way for the MU BB program. That bothers me.
Ugh..thanks for reminding me about the Kansas FF game..That one stung bad, and honestly, I still think about it from time to time..I WANT the program to get back there again..and this time I want them to finish the job. I really honestly don't think many really truly care if they do, or their expectations are so low now, that they don't think it will ever happen again.
-
Oh no, I lost a contest that I didn't even know I was entered in because I called someone out for their excessive pouting, and over the top temper tantrums.
Let me ask you a question...and please answer it honestly...after MU loses a game, what is your reaction?? Are you upset, at all?? Do you just shrug your shoulders and go "oh well, maybe next time"?? Do you throw things?? Do you stomp around?? How do YOU react?? Do you show ANY emotion at all??
-
Let me ask you a question...and please answer it honestly...after MU loses a game, what is your reaction?? Are you upset, at all?? Do you just shrug your shoulders and go "oh well, maybe next time"?? Do you throw things?? Do you stomp around?? How do YOU react?? Do you show ANY emotion at all??
It depends 100% on the game, the team we played, the circumstances in which we lost. I was traveling during the game at Louisville in the 2010-2011 season, and I damn near broke my car because I was hitting the dashboard so hard after every one of those ridiculous Preston Knowles 3's. I was very upset in the way in which we lost that game, but when I arrived at my destination (visiting family) I was still able to enjoy the time I spent with them. I was visiting the same family members when Zar stepped over the line in '09 and after the game I had to go drive around for a while because I didn't want to ruin other peoples day. The Omaha loss in 2014-15 was extremely upsetting because we had no right losing to a team like that no matter the circumstances. Tuesday's loss doesn't compare to any of those. We lost our first home game of the year (we are now 14-1 at home), we are still very solidly in 2nd place in conference after finishing 7th last year. We have a chance to pick up a marquee win in a few days time. We are still having a great season.
Just because I don't turn it up to 11 for every loss does not mean that I don't get upset when we lose certain games, and I try very hard to not effect the people around me when we do lose. StJ is a good team that beat us by one, I can certainly understand that loss and the circumstances in which it happened more so than the 3 (much more painful) losses listed above.
-
To quote Inigo, I don't think that word means what you think it means.
It means EXACTLY what I think it means..Life is a competition my friend. We compete for things every day in some facet. You are "hung up" on how you can compete for something you have no control over...Let me give you a couple of examples..Let's say you enter your name(or it's entered randomly) for a chance to win a drawing for a new car..you are competing against how many others to win that car?? NONE of you have any control over the results..yet, it's still "competing".
Here's another...let's say your favorite band is coming near you and you want to go see them, yet you know unless you try right away the minute after tickets go on sale, you will never get them...so you try and try and try, yet you are unsuccessful in getting them and it's now sold out, 10 minutes after the sale started. You have ZERO influence over how fast you are able to get thru to purchase tickets..you are competing against all the others to get those tickets. It's a competition. Most everything is in some way shape or form whether you have influence over results or not. Again, life is a competition...don't run from it, embrace it.
-
It means EXACTLY what I think it means..Life is a competition my friend. We compete for things every day in some facet. You are "hung up" on how you can compete for something you have no control over...Let me give you a couple of examples..Let's say you enter your name(or it's entered randomly) for a chance to win a drawing for a new car..you are competing against how many others to win that car?? NONE of you have any control over the results..yet, it's still "competing".
Here's another...let's say your favorite band is coming near you and you want to go see them, yet you know unless you try right away the minute after tickets go on sale, you will never get them...so you try and try and try, yet you are unsuccessful in getting them and it's now sold out, 10 minutes after the sale started. You have ZERO influence over how fast you are able to get thru to purchase tickets..you are competing against all the others to get those tickets. It's a competition. Most everything is in some way shape or form whether you have influence over results or not. Again, life is a competition...don't run from it, embrace it.
But YOU are trying to win a car, YOU are trying to get tickets. YOU are active doing something to try to achieve your goal. YOU are not the one shooting the basketball, YOU are not the one playing defense, YOU are not in the huddles calling out plays. YOU are just sitting in the stands.
-
Not to become part of this weird tirade. But I judge everyone on here by this:
If you have posted this quote:
“I or someone else I know forgot more about basketball than you will ever know”
Then you go in the “nothing you say carries any weight at all” grouping for me. This quote is dumbest thing and makes it clear that you are trying to be the king of the internet message boards instead of being helpful and part of a community of fans.
And sadly it is certain people who’s opinions I used to value that continually spout this stupid statement. And now with Guru using it, it is clear the group of people that use it are here to claim they are better than the rest.
How about cheer for the team, have fun, and if we lose, it sucks but damn... take a breather.
Everyone else who hasn’t posted that, I can stand.
-
It depends 100% on the game, the team we played, the circumstances in which we lost. I was traveling during the game at Louisville in the 2010-2011 season, and I damn near broke my car because I was hitting the dashboard so hard after every one of those ridiculous Preston Knowles 3's. I was very upset in the way in which we lost that game, but when I arrived at my destination (visiting family) I was still able to enjoy the time I spent with them. I was visiting the same family members when Zar stepped over the line in '09 and after the game I had to go drive around for a while because I didn't want to ruin other peoples day. The Omaha loss in 2014-15 was extremely upsetting because we had no right losing to a team like that no matter the circumstances. Tuesday's loss doesn't compare to any of those. We lost our first home game of the year (we are now 14-1 at home), we are still very solidly in 2nd place in conference after finishing 7th last year. We have a chance to pick up a marquee win in a few days time. We are still having a great season.
Just because I don't turn it up to 11 for every loss does not mean that I don't get upset when we lose certain games, and I try very hard to not effect the people around me when we do lose. StJ is a good team that beat us by one, I can certainly understand that loss and the circumstances in which it happened more so than the 3 (much more painful) losses listed above.
I love all of this! Love the intensity and the passion and the way you reacted! LOVE it! Great examples of games too, I remember all of them vividly unfortunately. The point is though...a loss is a loss..no matter how it happens, how it occurs etc. Now MAYBE it's a bit different if a team nails a half court buzzer beater to win it, not much you can do about that. As far as losing to SJU, one loss in and of itself isn't that big of a deal..HOWEVER the ramifications of this loss are potentially massive..First off, home losses hurt you in EVERY tool used by the selection committee, you simply can't lose at home. Right or wrong, that's the way it is. Secondly and most importantly, it COULD really have damaged MU's chances at a #2 seed in the NCAA's. With the way MSU is playing the door is/was WIDE open.
Is it still attainable?? Maybe...but now the margin for error becomes MUCH less, like to the extent that I THINK they probably can't lose again, including in the Big East tournament. Had they beaten SJU though, I really believe a loss to Nova(once) and just making the finals of the BE tournament was more then enough to earn a #2 seed. That's a HUGE difference if you really examine it. So my reaction isn't so much to the singular effect of losing this game(though I still think it NEVER should have happened), it's much more about what I feel like they potentially blew with that loss. Ugh
-
I don't get this "competition" angle. I'm quite competitive. Some would say bordering on unhealthily so. Also, quite a big MU fan. But being a fan isn't being "competitive". Competition requires something under my control. In actual competitions, if I do lose, it bothers me. I replay every aspect of the competition, to figure out what I could have done different/better, so that next time. I win.
I just reanalyzed everything I did during the St. Johns game. Turns out, nothing I did contributed to the success or failures of MU. Hence, not a competition.
-
Not to become part of this weird tirade. But I judge everyone on here by this:
If you have posted this quote:
“I or someone else I know forgot more about basketball than you will ever know”
Then you go in the “nothing you say carries any weight at all” grouping for me. This quote is dumbest thing and makes it clear that you are trying to be the king of the internet message boards instead of being helpful and part of a community of fans.
And sadly it is certain people who’s opinions I used to value that continually spout this stupid statement. And now with Guru using it, it is clear the group of people that use it are here to claim they are better than the rest.
How about cheer for the team, have fun, and if we lose, it sucks but damn... take a breather.
Everyone else who hasn’t posted that, I can stand.
Fair enough, but then I have a HUGE issue(always have) that refer to the team as "we". That rubs me the wrong way. If you say "we" when referring to MU basketball or another of your sports teams you root for, I discount anything you have to say.
-
I love all of this! Love the intensity and the passion and the way you reacted! LOVE it! Great examples of games too, I remember all of them vividly unfortunately. The point is though...a loss is a loss..no matter how it happens, how it occurs etc. Now MAYBE it's a bit different if a team nails a half court buzzer beater to win it, not much you can do about that. As far as losing to SJU, one loss in and of itself isn't that big of a deal..HOWEVER the ramifications of this loss are potentially massive..First off, home losses hurt you in EVERY tool used by the selection committee, you simply can't lose at home. Right or wrong, that's the way it is. Secondly and most importantly, it COULD really have damaged MU's chances at a #2 seed in the NCAA's. With the way MSU is playing the door is/was WIDE open.
Is it still attainable?? Maybe...but now the margin for error becomes MUCH less, like to the extent that I THINK they probably can't lose again, including in the Big East tournament. Had they beaten SJU though, I really believe a loss to Nova(once) and just making the finals of the BE tournament was more then enough to earn a #2 seed. That's a HUGE difference if you really examine it. So my reaction isn't so much to the singular effect of losing this game(though I still think it NEVER should have happened), it's much more about what I feel like they potentially blew with that loss. Ugh
But a loss isn't just a loss in the eyes of the committee. Despite being at home, the loss to StJ is not nearly as bad as at I4 (I had a not so great reaction to that one too). Also if a loss is a loss, then a win would be a win. Personally, I had a much bigger reaction to the UW-Madison win, versus the Southern win. Its true that in basketball you can only either win or lose, but not all losses are equal, the same way not all wins are equal.
-
But YOU are trying to win a car, YOU are trying to get tickets. YOU are active doing something to try to achieve your goal. YOU are not the one shooting the basketball, YOU are not the one playing defense, YOU are not in the huddles calling out plays. YOU are just sitting in the stands.
I disagree with this 100%. I am at the game cheering my lungs out TRYING to help influence the game in some way by being as loud as I can, and we do KNOW in any sporting event crowd noise can/does have an effect. I AM trying to do something.
-
I disagree with this 100%. I am at the game cheering my lungs out TRYING to help influence the game in some way by being as loud as I can, and we do KNOW in any sporting event crowd noise can/does have an effect. I AM trying to do something.
Maybe the home crowd in it's entirety. The attendance was listed at just over 14K on Tuesday. If we were at 17.5 capacity like I expect Saturday maybe we win, but if we had 14,031 versus 14,030 the outcome would have been no different, no matter how loud that one fan is.
-
But a loss isn't just a loss in the eyes of the committee. Despite being at home, the loss to StJ is not nearly as bad as at I4 (I had a not so great reaction to that one too). Also if a loss is a loss, then a win would be a win. Personally, I had a much bigger reaction to the UW-Madison win, versus the Southern win. Its true that in basketball you can only either win or lose, but not all losses are equal, the same way not all wins are equal.
I agree with this 1000%. However, in the committee's eyes a loss at home to Villanova would also not be as bad as a loss at home to SJU. Agreed?? That's the point, the margin is razor thin..at the end of the day the committee could look at MU's resume(with thoughts of giving them a #2 seed) and if comparing it to another team who has a loss at home but to a top 10 team for example, and everything else is equal, that loss to SJU AT HOME very well may tip the scales. And in the committee's eyes, it's true that home losses ALWAYS hurt you more then a road loss does. RPI is a perfect example of this...you could go on the road and beat a mediocre team, and your RPI would go up(sometimes substantially), but if you lost at home (even to a really good team), your RPI would ALWAYS ALWAYS drop. Home losses hurt, they really hurt.
-
I don't get this "competition" angle. I'm quite competitive. Some would say bordering on unhealthily so. Also, quite a big MU fan. But being a fan isn't being "competitive". Competition requires something under my control. In actual competitions, if I do lose, it bothers me. I replay every aspect of the competition, to figure out what I could have done different/better, so that next time. I win.
I just reanalyzed everything I did during the St. Johns game. Turns out, nothing I did contributed to the success or failures of MU. Hence, not a competition.
Just curious, were you at the game, or watching on TV??
-
guru, DJO's reactions and thoughts on the subject are similar to mine.
When watching a game and when things aren't going well for our heroes, I occasionally yell at the TV. I've been known to flip a remote control up in the air. I will curse sometimes ... sending my poor dog scurrying out of the room and under my desk in the office next door. When we got down by 15 to St. John's, I told my wife, "OK, I've got to settle down a little." And I sat there very quietly, almost motionless, testing my ability to chill. When we got it down to 7 or so, I resumed my discussions with the MU players and coaches on the TV. When we're going well, I'll clap and/or make the 3-point symbol and/or stand.
When I'm with a group of friends watching a game at a bar, I am less outwardly demonstrative. Other bar patrons don't want to hear some yahoo swearing at the top of his lungs at a televised basketball game. But I am definitely feeling the emotions inside, and I tend to talk out every play, as do a few of my buds. I'm sure we sound like yammering fools.
I am the coordinator for our National Marquette Day festivities in Charlotte this Saturday. There will be families there. Am I supposed to scream and swear at the TV to prove how "competitive" I am? Would you? Or am I supposed to act like a mature adult who has a life beyond MU hoops? I will do the latter, of course, but I will be emoting inside, and I certainly will be whoopin' it up when things are going well. These events are never easy for me because I really want to focus on the game and a lot of folks want to socialize.
When I am at a game, I cheer a lot, stand more than most, make the 3 sign every time Sam or Markus release an H-bomb, etc. I was fortunate enough to have incredible seats for the DePaul game last month and I often was one of only a couple people standing in my entire section. But again, I mostly grumble when things aren't going well, because nobody wants to be seated in front of, behind, or next to the jerk who is swearing in public.
I was covering Illinois basketball in 2003, and they happened to be playing their first- and second-round games in Indy, just as we were. So I watched the MU-Holy Cross game on press row while waiting for the Illinois game to start. Again, I had to act like a professional, so I wasn't throwing things or cursing. At one point, when things weren't going well, I put my head down on the press table and stopped watching for a minute. At another point, I got up and took about a 3-minute walk in the corridor before I came back to my seat. What was funny is that later, one of my fellow scribes was telling people, "You should have seen Mike. He was going crazy!" Which was 100% not true -- I was the opposite of going crazy. Damn lyin' media - ha! I was a nervous wreck again two days later during the Mizzou game, which was one of the most incredible games I've ever witnessed in person.
After losses, I'm never happy. I usually cope by reliving the couple/few things that I thought cost us the game. I'll wait hours, or sometimes a day, before I go on Scoop because I already feel bad enough. But I then have to get on with my life. I have work to do or stuff to do around the house. I have a wife I don't want to make miserable. I'm certainly not still moping 2 or 3 days later. You might think that's the same as shrugging and saying "I don't care," but you're wrong. It's accepting that I can't change what happened and refusing to make myself and those I love miserable because a bunch of 20-year-olds missed a few shots.
guru, I assure you that I am extremely competitive and I want to win. Ask my kids if I ever let them beat me at anything. Never! Not even Candyland. My son and I would play 1-on-1 and I'd block every shot I could. I never lost to him because I was smart enough to stop playing him when he was about 11. I'm still that way when the family plays board games.
I am a basketball coach now. I was a head coach at the middle-school level for 4 years and now I'm an assistant for one of the top HS programs in Charlotte. There have been times that I've been less than pleased on the bench. But a coach can't lose his shyte. He or she has to be a role model, has to keep his or her composure. And unlike MU games, I actually have a little control over some of the things that happen in games I coach (at least when I was a head coach).
You are no more "competitive" than I am, my friend. Nor are you more "passionate" a fan. You just react differently to the stimuli with which you are presented. You choose to get worked up, to let it fester for days, etc.
And that's cool. Whatever floats your boat. I will agree to stop telling you to chill if you agree to stop calling out your fellow Scoopers for not being as "competitive" as you are.
Not only is it childish, but it's inaccurate. As is you knowing more about basketball than anybody else here. That's just silly.
-
I agree with this 1000%. However, in the committee's eyes a loss at home to Villanova would also not be as bad as a loss at home to SJU. Agreed?? That's the point, the margin is razor thin..at the end of the day the committee could look at MU's resume(with thoughts of giving them a #2 seed) and if comparing it to another team who has a loss at home but to a top 10 team for example, and everything else is equal, that loss to SJU AT HOME very well may tip the scales. And in the committee's eyes, it's true that home losses ALWAYS hurt you more then a road loss does. RPI is a perfect example of this...you could go on the road and beat a mediocre team, and your RPI would go up(sometimes substantially), but if you lost at home (even to a really good team), your RPI would ALWAYS ALWAYS drop. Home losses hurt, they really hurt.
Just a tip, don't use RPI as an argument, you won't win. While it's true that home losses hurt more than road losses, margins are far more important than where a game took place. If I had to rank our 4 losses from best to worst it would go:
1 point home loss to StJ
9 point neutral loss to KU
BIG GAP
20 point road loss to StJ
23 point road loss to I4
The same way that the narrow winning margins weren't helping our advanced numbers a lot, a narrow loss (even at home) does not hurt our advanced numbers as much as the road blowouts. NET movement has confirmed this.
-
Good convo guys. I was uoset we lost the game vs SJU but not as bad as an NCAa game many of which have been mentioned. SJU is a bad matchup and id like to see more of Sam or ed at the 5 and more of joe c and bailey against them in the future. Love theo but hes a liability in that game.
Was glad we fought and game back was most disappointed in how we came out in the first half, played without toughness or intensity on both halves and gave up 55% fg shooting? It eas like 2016-2018 seasons all over again, that was very disheartening to me.
Intersting enuff i had a conversation with a young player yesterday. Spoke to him to see if he would be a good fit, above and beyond that hes a really fine player. I asked him what he felt some of his best attributes were. First thing he said was “ i love to win”. Fine response and extremely common. Kid said all the right things but i ultimately walked away saying to myself “i wish he had said ‘i hate to lose’”
-
Maybe the home crowd in it's entirety. The attendance was listed at just over 14K on Tuesday. If we were at 17.5 capacity like I expect Saturday maybe we win, but if we had 14,031 versus 14,030 the outcome would have been no different, no matter how loud that one fan is.
But you are making my point...fans CAN and DO influence outcomes of games. To say they don't or that "we as fans" have no control over an outcome, is simply NOT true. We do.
-
One of the advantages of growing up a Detroit Lions fan is that I learned to manage disappointment early. My MU years were 84-88, Majerus to Dukiet. I rooted like crazy, student section all 4 years, realized that the team stunk. Managed my disappointment The last time I threw anything watching sports was a MU game during the Deane years. Had no effect on the game, had to replace a lamp. Another lesson learned.
I have now coached well over 30 youth teams in 5 sports. Teach the kids to compete as hard as they can and then shake hands when it is over. Not the worst lesson in the world. Knowing I am a role model for these kids, they have never seen me lose my temper with an umpire/referee. All of my disagreements are in a conversational tone. Screaming, irrational parents... I let them have their say and then try to get them to speak like a mature, rational adult.
Finally, having been a firefighter for nearly 29 years, I know what life and death looks like. MU basketball ranks very high on my obsession list. But it isn't life or death.
-
guru, DJO's reactions and thoughts on the subject are similar to mine.
When watching a game and when things aren't going well for our heroes, I occasionally yell at the TV. I've been known to flip a remote control up in the air. I will curse sometimes ... sending my poor dog scurrying out of the room and under my desk in the office next door. When we got down by 15 to St. John's, I told my wife, "OK, I've got to settle down a little." And I sat there very quietly, almost motionless, testing my ability to chill. When we got it down to 7 or so, I resumed my discussions with the MU players and coaches on the TV. When we're going well, I'll clap and/or make the 3-point symbol and/or stand.
When I'm with a group of friends watching a game at a bar, I am less outwardly demonstrative. Other bar patrons don't want to hear some yahoo swearing at the top of his lungs at a televised basketball game. But I am definitely feeling the emotions inside, and I tend to talk out every play, as do a few of my buds. I'm sure we sound like yammering fools.
I am the coordinator for our National Marquette Day festivities in Charlotte this Saturday. There will be families there. Am I supposed to scream and swear at the TV to prove how "competitive" I am? Would you? Or am I supposed to act like a mature adult who has a life beyond MU hoops? I will do the latter, of course, but I will be emoting inside, and I certainly will be whoopin' it up when things are going well. These events are never easy for me because I really want to focus on the game and a lot of folks want to socialize.
When I am at a game, I cheer a lot, stand more than most, make the 3 sign every time Sam or Markus release an H-bomb, etc. I was fortunate enough to have incredible seats for the DePaul game last month and I often was one of only a couple people standing in my entire section. But again, I mostly grumble when things aren't going well, because nobody wants to be seated in front of, behind, or next to the jerk who is swearing in public.
I was covering Illinois basketball in 2003, and they happened to be playing their first- and second-round games in Indy, just as we were. So I watched the MU-Holy Cross game on press row while waiting for the Illinois game to start. Again, I had to act like a professional, so I wasn't throwing things or cursing. At one point, when things weren't going well, I put my head down on the press table and stopped watching for a minute. At another point, I got up and took about a 3-minute walk in the corridor before I came back to my seat. What was funny is that later, one of my fellow scribes was telling people, "You should have seen Mike. He was going crazy!" Which was 100% not true -- I was the opposite of going crazy. Damn lyin' media - ha! I was a nervous wreck again two days later during the Mizzou game, which was one of the most incredible games I've ever witnessed in person.
After losses, I'm never happy. I usually cope by reliving the couple/few things that I thought cost us the game. I'll wait hours, or sometimes a day, before I go on Scoop because I already feel bad enough. But I then have to get on with my life. I have work to do or stuff to do around the house. I have a wife I don't want to make miserable. I'm certainly not still moping 2 or 3 days later. You might think that's the same as shrugging and saying "I don't care," but you're wrong. It's accepting that I can't change what happened and refusing to make myself and those I love miserable because a bunch of 20-year-olds missed a few shots.
guru, I assure you that I am extremely competitive and I want to win. Ask my kids if I ever let them beat me at anything. Never! Not even Candyland. My son and I would play 1-on-1 and I'd block every shot I could. I never lost to him because I was smart enough to stop playing him when he was about 11. I'm still that way when the family plays board games.
I am a basketball coach now. I was a head coach at the middle-school level for 4 years and now I'm an assistant for one of the top HS programs in Charlotte. There have been times that I've been less than pleased on the bench. But a coach can't lose his shyte. He or she has to be a role model, has to keep his or her composure. And unlike MU games, I actually have a little control over some of the things that happen in games I coach (at least when I was a head coach).
You are no more "competitive" than I am, my friend. Nor are you more "passionate" a fan. You just react differently to the stimuli with which you are presented. You choose to get worked up, to let it fester for days, etc.
And that's cool. Whatever floats your boat. I will agree to stop telling you to chill if you agree to stop calling out your fellow Scoopers for not being as "competitive" as you are.
Not only is it childish, but it's inaccurate. As is you knowing more about basketball than anybody else here. That's just silly.
See, this is beautiful! For real! You show PLENTY of emotion, and I LOVE it. Real life stories..are the best. It changes my view on things and how I see some of you. It's just we all express it differently etc. I do all the same things as you..but sometimes more demonstrative..I don't really care who it affects that's around me, just givem e my "moment" and it's all good. I choose to express myself after losses on this message board. In reality it doesn't affect anyone, and it gives me an "outlet". it's better then taking it out on someone close to me, right??
After Markus "missed" that last shot, I grabbed my coat "angrily" and walked up the steps to the lobby, and as I walked by the "table" behind the seats, I slapped it as hard as I could in disgust and mumbled" what a bunch of bullcrap". Yes, people saw me and heard the slap, and looked at me..I looked pissed, because I was..but why do I care what a bunch of people who don't know me think about how I act in a moment of frustration and anger.
On my hour drive home on icy roads, I stewed the whole way..not because I was pissed because I had a long drive home on crappy roads, but because MU had just lost a game I felt they had no business losing.
P.S. I have NO idea how people watch games at bars or other places, or even with people..Except of course if you are in attendance. I want to concentrate on and hear the game, without all the "other" distractions around me. I watch them alone..always. unless I'm there, of course.
-
See, this is beautiful! For real! You show PLENTY of emotion, and I LOVE it. Real life stories..are the best. It changes my view on things and how I see some of you. It's just we all express it differently etc. I do all the same things as you..but sometimes more demonstrative..I don't really care who it affects that's around me, just givem e my "moment" and it's all good. I choose to express myself after losses on this message board. In reality it doesn't affect anyone, and it gives me an "outlet". it's better then taking it out on someone close to me, right??
After Markus "missed" that last shot, I grabbed my coat "angrily" and walked up the steps to the lobby, and as I walked by the "table" behind the seats, I slapped it as hard as I could in disgust and mumbled" what a bunch of bullcrap". Yes, people saw me and heard the slap, and looked at me..I looked pissed, because I was..but why do I care what a bunch of people who don't know me think about how I act in a moment of frustration and anger.
On my hour drive home on icy roads, I stewed the whole way..not because I was pissed because I had a long drive home on crappy roads, but because MU had just lost a game I felt they had no business losing
Glad you made it home OK.
I've said my piece (and then some) on this subject.
-
I got a little lost here. Can we go back to discussing sticking it up the asses of Badger fans?
If we do stick it up their asses, aren’t we actually handing a victory to a majority of those c@cksuck3rs?
-
Just a tip, don't use RPI as an argument, you won't win. While it's true that home losses hurt more than road losses, margins are far more important than where a game took place. If I had to rank our 4 losses from best to worst it would go:
1 point home loss to StJ
9 point neutral loss to KU
BIG GAP
20 point road loss to StJ
23 point road loss to I4
The same way that the narrow winning margins weren't helping our advanced numbers a lot, a narrow loss (even at home) does not hurt our advanced numbers as much as the road blowouts. NET movement has confirmed this.
NET yes, the affects aren't as noticeable..but RPI they were/are, I assure you. You can go beat UCF on the road and in a lot of cases your RPI would go UP even with a loss, however a loss at home(no matter to whom or by what margin) would ALWAYS drop you. I remember MU losing at home to Nova(I think last year it was), and checking the RPI after the loss and it had dropped like 10+ spots for losing at home to a highly ranked team. The computers for the most part do NOT like home losses, that is a fact. How the humans on the committee view them is an entirely different debate.
-
NET yes, the affects aren't as noticeable..but RPI they were/are, I assure you. You can go beat UCF on the road and in a lot of cases your RPI would go UP even with a loss, however a loss at home(no matter to whom or by what margin) would ALWAYS drop you. I remember MU losing at home to Nova(I think last year it was), and checking the RPI after the loss and it had dropped like 10+ spots for losing at home to a highly ranked team. The computers for the most part do NOT like home losses, that is a fact. How the humans on the committee view them is an entirely different debate.
I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. RPI is no longer used to determine seed/invitation to the NCAA tournament. It is factored in 0%. It is a broken metric that long outlived it's usefulness, and has no effect on anything related to our success or failure this season.
-
Have we considered the possibility that Guru is actually a four year old and just vastly underestimates the ages of the rest of us on this board?
-
I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. RPI is no longer used to determine seed/invitation to the NCAA tournament. It is factored in 0%. It is a broken metric that long outlived it's usefulness, and has no effect on anything related to our success or failure this season.
Shall we go with respected National Writer Matt Norlander on this?? Pay particular attention to his last sentence..
https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/1092641526554001409
Losing at home is what hurts you.
-
Hey guys, did I miss anything?
-
Shall we go with respected National Writer Matt Norlander on this?? Pay particular attention to his last sentence..
https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/1092641526554001409
Losing at home is what hurts you.
He can say whatever he wants. Considering no one knows the exact formula for calculating NET (which is used whereas RPI is not) lets look at how we actually moved after our 1st home loss of the season which didn't come until February.
Big East Net Rankings as of games of Tuesday February 5.
New Old
18 19 Villanova
21 18 Marquette
40 45 St. John's
55 55 Butler
58 58 Creighton
67 67 Seton Hall
79 82 Georgetown
81 81 Providence
92 92 Xavier
102 102 DePaul
-
He can say whatever he wants. Considering no one knows the exact formula for calculating NET (which is used whereas RPI is not) lets look at how we actually moved after our 1st home loss of the season which didn't come until February.
Right, three spots...but those three spots COULD end up being massive if it means a difference between being a 3 seed or a 4 seed for example. And where it could really hurt is if they stacked another loss at home on Saturday.
-
Right, three spots...but those three spots COULD end up being massive if it means a difference between being a 3 seed or a 4 seed for example. And where it could really hurt is if they stacked another loss at home on Saturday.
The point is that 3 spots is quite a ways away from the 10+ that you would get from the RPI. I might not have the numbers perfect, but during our 8 game winning streak I believe that we were between 16 and 21 for almost the entirety of that stretch because a lot of the wins were by small margins. The only time that we really had a significant drop from one game was the loss at StJ. Also, as Brew pointed out in another thread, we have more Q1 wins than all but 2 teams in the country, we won't know for sure until Saturday, but I think that will be have a much larger impact than our now 1 Q2 loss.
-
The point is that 3 spots is quite a ways away from the 10+ that you would get from the RPI. I might not have the numbers perfect, but during our 8 game winning streak I believe that we were between 16 and 21 for almost the entirety of that stretch because a lot of the wins were by small margins. The only time that we really had a significant drop from one game was the loss at StJ. Also, as Brew pointed out in another thread, we have more Q1 wins than all but 2 teams in the country, we won't know for sure until Saturday, but I think that will be have a much larger impact than our now 1 Q2 loss.
I think they are still a top 16 seed...but right at the back end #15 or #16, where as before the SJU loss, they may have been at like #11 or #12. You would agree that there is a MASSIVE difference between being a #3 seed in the NCAA's and a #4 right?? A #3 you avoid the #1, as a #4 you get them in the round of sweet sixteen.
-
I think they are still a top 16 seed...but right at the back end #15 or #16, where as before the SJU loss, they may have been at like #11 or #12. You would agree that there is a MASSIVE difference between being a #3 seed in the NCAA's and a #4 right?? A #3 you avoid the #1, as a #4 you get them in the round of sweet sixteen.
Yes there's a difference between a 3 and a 4, but looking at S16 matchups in early February is downright ridiculous. The only matchups we should be keeping an eye on right now is making sure we avoid StJ in the BET.
-
Yes there's a difference between a 3 and a 4, but looking at S16 matchups in early February is downright ridiculous. The only matchups we should be keeping an eye on right now is making sure we avoid StJ in the BET.
Eh, I'd love another shot at them. I love me some revenge.
-
Eh, I'd love another shot at them. I love me some revenge.
Ponds in NY with our BET resume? No thank you. I think they're beatable, especially if they're playing on back to back nights with their lack of depth, but there's a higher chance Ponds goes full Kemba than Markus IMO.
-
Anyone ever click on the new button for a thread, start reading it and have something pertinent to post. Then you realize you are reading page 8 of 11 and by the time you get to the last page, the conversation topic now has nothing to do with what you wanted to post about. Bummer. Even worse when the thread actually has gotten back on the original topic so your post would not only not be on topic, but make you look like you are trying to re-derail the thread.
I hate when that happens.
-
Anyone ever click on the new button for a thread, start reading it and have something pertinent to post. Then you realize you are reading page 8 of 11 and by the time you get to the last page, the conversation topic now has nothing to do with what you wanted to post about. Bummer. Even worse when the thread actually has gotten back on the original topic so your post would not only not be on topic, but make you look like you are trying to re-derail the thread.
I hate when that happens.
This was not pertinent to the original or current topic
-
I'm glad a loss is funny to you...My day has literally sucked today because of that loss last night...it will suck for the next couple as well..how many others can say the same??
Hang in there. You will feel a lot better after we beat Nova.
-
Just curious, were you at the game, or watching on TV??
Uh oh! Couch fan attack!!
-
One of the advantages of growing up a Detroit Lions fan is that I learned to manage disappointment early. My MU years were 84-88, Majerus to Dukiet. I rooted like crazy, student section all 4 years, realized that the team stunk. Managed my disappointment The last time I threw anything watching sports was a MU game during the Deane years. Had no effect on the game, had to replace a lamp. Another lesson learned.
I have now coached well over 30 youth teams in 5 sports. Teach the kids to compete as hard as they can and then shake hands when it is over. Not the worst lesson in the world. Knowing I am a role model for these kids, they have never seen me lose my temper with an umpire/referee. All of my disagreements are in a conversational tone. Screaming, irrational parents... I let them have their say and then try to get them to speak like a mature, rational adult.
Finally, having been a firefighter for nearly 29 years, I know what life and death looks like. MU basketball ranks very high on my obsession list. But it isn't life or death.
my buddy and I were sulking and pounding beers after the 2004 loss in Madison. A regular at the bar came up to us and said "it's not your wife and it's not your life. It's a game." To me, it's entertainment and if it's affecting my life after the buzzer then I shouldn't be watching.
-
This was not pertinent to the original or current topic
I know, that's the problem. Wait, no. That's a slightly different problem. Never mind...
-
Also, as Brew pointed out in another thread, we have more Q1 wins than all but 2 teams in the country
Credit where it's due, TAMU pointed that out.
-
Credit where it's due, TAMU pointed that out.
Mea cupla. Apologies TAMU.
-
Mea cupla. Apologies TAMU.
(http://media1.tenor.com/images/01bc66469cb2cf959d192fcf310106e1/tenor.gif?itemid=5044862)
-
Ponds in NY with our BET resume?
Yes, because if it has happened in the past, it automatically will happen in the future. Case in point ... Wojo never having won 3 straight BEast games.
-
Yes, because if it has happened in the past, it automatically will happen in the future. Case in point ... Wojo never having won 3 straight BEast games.
Nothings automatic or a guarantee in basketball, but of all the teams in conference StJ is the one I would most like to avoid. They are the worst matchup and we've really shown very little ability to do anything to stop Ponds.
-
Nothings automatic or a guarantee in basketball, but of all the teams in conference StJ is the one I would most like to avoid. They are the worst matchup and we've really shown very little ability to do anything to stop Ponds.
Which...I have NO idea why Wojo has never zoned SJU..It makes perfect sense against them.
-
Which...I have NO idea why Wojo has never zoned SJU..It makes perfect sense against them.
Because they have 4 guys that shoot over 37% from three on 3.9+ attempts each?
I get that Ponds can absolutely carve you up inside, but it feels really dangerous to zone a team that has five guys willing to play on the perimeter.
-
Which...I have NO idea why Wojo has never zoned SJU..It makes perfect sense against them.
Keep in mind that they burnt us with quite a few offensive rebounds late in the game. How much worse would that have been with a zone?
-
Keep in mind that they burnt us with quite a few offensive rebounds late in the game. How much worse would that have been with a zone?
Which reminds me..I was thinking to myself on that last possession that maybe Wojo should have had Morrow AND Theo in the game for extra rim protection against a Ponds drive...They could have looked at ponds and been thinking.."Bring it in here little man". I camp both of them out under the rim and MAKE Ponds either try to drive on them, or dish it off to one of the others that would have been open. Oh well.
-
Which...I have NO idea why Wojo has never zoned SJU..It makes perfect sense against them.
They could have zoned a possession or three, but our defense didn't cost us the game. Especially in the second half. We held a good offensive team to 70 points -- including 30 in the 2H, when StJ shot 37% (25% from 3). Held 'em to 21 pts in the last 15 minutes. Defense was just fine.
That being said, as I mentioned before, I would have done everything possible to deny Ponds the ball that last possession. I believe Wojo said the plan was to double-team him, but it just never happened.
Your suggestion of putting in both Theo and Morrow ... not sure about that. But I certainly would have considered having Theo play more of a 1-man zone in the lane.
-
Which reminds me..I was thinking to myself on that last possession that maybe Wojo should have had Morrow AND Theo in the game for extra rim protection against a Ponds drive...They could have looked at ponds and been thinking.."Bring it in here little man". I camp both of them out under the rim and MAKE Ponds either try to drive on them, or dish it off to one of the others that would have been open. Oh well.
So, much like others' responses to your opinion that wojo should have tried zone (which you conveniently ignored), you're going to again leave shooters open on a team that shoots well from 3?
Bold strategy Cotton.
-
SJU is a team of guards. Neither Theo or Ed can defend guards in space. Other than that, a solid question.
-
SJU is a team of guards. Neither Theo or Ed can defend guards in space. Other than that, a solid question.
What space?? I said, plant Theo and Ed alone under the basket..ie, let them leave their guys open. Ponds is likely to dish it with two guys wide open..I'll take my chances with the ball out of his hands.
-
So, much like others' responses to your opinion that wojo should have tried zone (which you conveniently ignored), you're going to again leave shooters open on a team that shoots well from 3?
Bold strategy Cotton.
Well...let's see..follow me here...what is the lower % shot?? Letting them shoot from 3 or repeatedly driving to the hole for a lay up(like they were doing in the 1st half). Would you rather : Take your chances with Ponds shooting from 3, or repeatedly beating his man and getting in to the paint?? a 37% 3 point shooting team?? So...63% of the time they miss out there?? Would they have missed any 3's had MU zoned them(which by the way i would have tried for a FEW possessions just to give them a different look not the whole game)?? Did MU(a better overall 3% shooting team then SJU), miss any 3's?? They started 0-9. Wait...teams miss shots?? Who knew?? Especially ON THE ROAD. The same SJU team that shot a blistering 27% from 3 against MU the way it was??
Please help jog my memory...but..a couple of years ago, MU played a #1 ranked Villanova team at home...a VERY good 3point shooting #1 team, MU played zone..and it was...a clank fest in the 2nd half. Am i recalling correctly?? I'm just stunned teams miss more from 3 then they make, and the shooting % is higher when they get in the paint(closer to the basket) repeatedly. ::)
So yeah...I'm playing a bit of zone to keep them out of the lane, and let them shoot from 20' instead of 2'. Crazy strategy...I know. ?-(
-
Well...let's see..follow me here...what is the lower % shot?? Letting them shoot from 3 or repeatedly driving to the hole for a lay up(like they were doing in the 1st half). Would you rather : Take your chances with Ponds shooting from 3, or repeatedly beating his man and getting in to the paint?? a 37% 3 point shooting team?? So...63% of the time they miss out there??
This is where a thorough understanding of advanced statistics would really help you. St John's does shoot a higher percentage from two, but they score on average 1.119 points per three point attempt and 1.066 points per two point attempt. So if you're going to let them tee off from 3, they will hurt you a lot more than driving & taking twos.
-
This is where a thorough understanding of advanced statistics would really help you. St John's does shoot a higher percentage from two, but they score on average 1.119 points per three point attempt and 1.066 points per two point attempt. So if you're going to let them tee off from 3, they will hurt you a lot more than driving & taking twos.
IF....IF they are making shots...that's the key..No one would have thought playing zone vs Nova a couple years ago was a brilliant strategy either..and what happened?? Clank...clank...clank..Everyone seems to assume that SJU would have been making those 3's...why?? They were 8-26 against MU the way it was..think SJU wanted MU taking all those open 3's in the first half they had(hell no)?? What happened?? Clank...clank..clank..and that was in their own arena. A significantly better 3 point shooting team was clanking 3's...in their own arena..I think sometimes people want to shoot down anything i say, just because it's me..not once did I say play zone the ENTIRE game..but I would have mixed it in at times for a different look, let's see how they handle it, and let's see if they can make their shots(enough evidence in this game the way it was played to say they wouldn't have).
-
I just don't think zoning a team that puts 4 good three point shooters on the floor at the same time is a good strategy. Even Simon isn't a terrible shooter if you leave him open. Zone against a team comfortable going five out seems unwise, no matter who suggests it.
-
I just don't think zoning a team that puts 4 good three point shooters on the floor at the same time is a good strategy. Even Simon isn't a terrible shooter if you leave him open. Zone against a team comfortable going five out seems unwise, no matter who suggests it.
Well...all I am saying is..the shots have to go in...against Nova(a team that plays almost the same way) clanked their 3's..we saw MU clank their 3's Tuesday night...I guess the easiest way of looking at it is this...would you rather let Ponds jack from 20' all night long, or drive to the rim at will?? I know what i'm choosing, every time. But maybe that's just me.
-
Guru
For MU to achieve further success the shooting has to be there. If they are cold, any team on schedule can beat them. In watching the game on Tuesday, I really watched how hard they need to work to get off a good shot on many possessions. Hit their shots and they can compete with a lot of teams. If cold, it is difficult for them. It is unfortunate that they do not create more transition baskets because I think that would help half court offense big time.
-
Guru
For MU to achieve further success the shooting has to be there. If they are cold, any team on schedule can beat them. In watching the game on Tuesday, I really watched how hard they need to work to get off a good shot on many possessions. Hit their shots and they can compete with a lot of teams. If cold, it is difficult for them. It is unfortunate that they do not create more transition baskets because I think that would help half court offense big time.
This is one thing that has perplexed me as much as anything this year...why does this MU team not run more?? Transition 3's are gold.
-
Negative
Give it up, dude.
You’re embarrassing yourself.