Oops / SJU

[Its DJOver]

Yes, because if it has happened in the past, it automatically will happen in the future. Case in point ... Wojo never having won 3 straight BEast games.

Nothings automatic or a guarantee in basketball, but of all the teams in conference StJ is the one I would most like to avoid.  They are the worst matchup and we've really shown very little ability to do anything to stop Ponds.

[muguru]

Nothings automatic or a guarantee in basketball, but of all the teams in conference StJ is the one I would most like to avoid.  They are the worst matchup and we've really shown very little ability to do anything to stop Ponds.

Which...I have NO idea why Wojo has never zoned SJU..It makes perfect sense against them.

[brewcity77]

Which...I have NO idea why Wojo has never zoned SJU..It makes perfect sense against them.

Because they have 4 guys that shoot over 37% from three on 3.9+ attempts each?

I get that Ponds can absolutely carve you up inside, but it feels really dangerous to zone a team that has five guys willing to play on the perimeter.

[MarquetteDano]

Which...I have NO idea why Wojo has never zoned SJU..It makes perfect sense against them.

Keep in mind that they burnt us with quite a few offensive rebounds late in the game.  How much worse would that have been with a zone?

[muguru]

Keep in mind that they burnt us with quite a few offensive rebounds late in the game.  How much worse would that have been with a zone?

Which reminds me..I was thinking to myself on that last possession that maybe Wojo should have had Morrow AND Theo in the game for extra rim protection against a Ponds drive...They could have looked at ponds and been thinking.."Bring it in here little man". I camp both of them out under the rim and MAKE Ponds either try to drive on them, or dish it off to one of the others that would have been open. Oh well.

[MU82]

Which...I have NO idea why Wojo has never zoned SJU..It makes perfect sense against them.

They could have zoned a possession or three, but our defense didn't cost us the game. Especially in the second half. We held a good offensive team to 70 points -- including 30 in the 2H, when StJ shot 37% (25% from 3). Held 'em to 21 pts in the last 15 minutes. Defense was just fine.

That being said, as I mentioned before, I would have done everything possible to deny Ponds the ball that last possession. I believe Wojo said the plan was to double-team him, but it just never happened.

Your suggestion of putting in both Theo and Morrow ... not sure about that. But I certainly would have considered having Theo play more of a 1-man zone in the lane.

[jesmu84]

Which reminds me..I was thinking to myself on that last possession that maybe Wojo should have had Morrow AND Theo in the game for extra rim protection against a Ponds drive...They could have looked at ponds and been thinking.."Bring it in here little man". I camp both of them out under the rim and MAKE Ponds either try to drive on them, or dish it off to one of the others that would have been open. Oh well.

So, much like others' responses to your opinion that wojo should have tried zone (which you conveniently ignored), you're going to again leave shooters open on a team that shoots well from 3?

Bold strategy Cotton.

[tower912]

SJU is a team of guards.  Neither Theo or Ed can defend guards in space.  Other than that, a solid question.

[muguru]

SJU is a team of guards.  Neither Theo or Ed can defend guards in space.  Other than that, a solid question.

What space?? I said, plant Theo and Ed alone under the basket..ie, let them leave their guys open. Ponds is likely to dish it with two guys wide open..I'll take my chances with the ball out of his hands.

[muguru]

So, much like others' responses to your opinion that wojo should have tried zone (which you conveniently ignored), you're going to again leave shooters open on a team that shoots well from 3?

Bold strategy Cotton.

Well...let's see..follow me here...what is the lower % shot?? Letting them shoot from 3 or repeatedly driving to the hole for a lay up(like they were doing in the 1st half). Would you rather : Take your chances with Ponds shooting from 3, or repeatedly beating his man and getting in to the paint?? a 37% 3 point shooting team?? So...63% of the time they miss out there?? Would they have missed any 3's had MU zoned them(which by the way i would have tried for a FEW possessions just to give them a different look not the whole game)?? Did MU(a better overall 3% shooting team then SJU), miss any 3's?? They started 0-9. Wait...teams miss shots?? Who knew?? Especially ON THE ROAD. The same SJU team that shot a blistering 27% from 3 against MU the way it was??

Please help jog my memory...but..a couple of years ago, MU played a #1 ranked Villanova team at home...a VERY good 3point shooting #1 team, MU played zone..and it was...a clank fest in the 2nd half. Am i recalling correctly?? I'm just stunned teams miss more from 3 then they make, and the shooting % is higher when they get in the paint(closer to the basket) repeatedly. 

So yeah...I'm playing a bit of zone to keep them out of the lane, and let them shoot from 20' instead of 2'. Crazy strategy...I know. 

[brewcity77]

Well...let's see..follow me here...what is the lower % shot?? Letting them shoot from 3 or repeatedly driving to the hole for a lay up(like they were doing in the 1st half). Would you rather : Take your chances with Ponds shooting from 3, or repeatedly beating his man and getting in to the paint?? a 37% 3 point shooting team?? So...63% of the time they miss out there??

This is where a thorough understanding of advanced statistics would really help you. St John's does shoot a higher percentage from two, but they score on average 1.119 points per three point attempt and 1.066 points per two point attempt. So if you're going to let them tee off from 3, they will hurt you a lot more than driving & taking twos.

[muguru]

This is where a thorough understanding of advanced statistics would really help you. St John's does shoot a higher percentage from two, but they score on average 1.119 points per three point attempt and 1.066 points per two point attempt. So if you're going to let them tee off from 3, they will hurt you a lot more than driving & taking twos.

IF....IF they are making shots...that's the key..No one would have thought playing zone vs Nova a couple years ago was a brilliant strategy either..and what happened?? Clank...clank...clank..Everyone seems to assume that SJU would have been making those 3's...why?? They were 8-26 against MU the way it was..think SJU wanted MU taking all those open 3's in the first half they had(hell no)?? What happened?? Clank...clank..clank..and that was in their own arena. A significantly better 3 point shooting team was clanking 3's...in their own arena..I think sometimes people want to shoot down anything i say, just because it's me..not once did I say play zone the ENTIRE game..but I would have mixed it in at times for a different look, let's see how they handle it, and let's see if they can make their shots(enough evidence in this game the way it was played to say they wouldn't have).

[brewcity77]

I just don't think zoning a team that puts 4 good three point shooters on the floor at the same time is a good strategy. Even Simon isn't a terrible shooter if you leave him open. Zone against a team comfortable going five out seems unwise, no matter who suggests it.

[muguru]

I just don't think zoning a team that puts 4 good three point shooters on the floor at the same time is a good strategy. Even Simon isn't a terrible shooter if you leave him open. Zone against a team comfortable going five out seems unwise, no matter who suggests it.

Well...all I am saying is..the shots have to go in...against Nova(a team that plays almost the same way) clanked their 3's..we saw MU clank their 3's Tuesday night...I guess the easiest way of looking at it is this...would you rather let Ponds jack from 20' all night long, or drive to the rim at will?? I know what i'm choosing, every time. But maybe that's just me.

[Goose]

Guru
For MU to achieve further success the shooting has to be there. If they are cold, any team on schedule can beat them. In watching the game on Tuesday, I really watched how hard they need to work to get off a good shot on many possessions. Hit their shots and they can compete with a lot of teams. If cold, it is difficult for them. It is unfortunate that they do not create more transition baskets because I think that would help half court offense big time.

[muguru]

Guru
For MU to achieve further success the shooting has to be there. If they are cold, any team on schedule can beat them. In watching the game on Tuesday, I really watched how hard they need to work to get off a good shot on many possessions. Hit their shots and they can compete with a lot of teams. If cold, it is difficult for them. It is unfortunate that they do not create more transition baskets because I think that would help half court offense big time.

This is one thing that has perplexed me as much as anything this year...why does this MU team not run more?? Transition 3's are gold.

[Jockey]

Negative

Give it up, dude.

You’re embarrassing yourself.