Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?

[#UnleashSean]

At a minimum he'll be all time leading scorer - by a wide margin - of course it will be retired.

Our current all time leading scorers Jersey isn't retired.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Markus may well go into the books as the MU GOAT. When he's unconscious he's literally unstoppable. But if he could get his teammates involved more I think this could be up there with one of the best MU teams of all time.

As it is, it's a big ask for him to go unconscious 4 games in a row in March to put this team in rarefied air. I'm not confident we get past Markus' "down" game in the tourney.

One of the all time great teams??
Define plz
Im not sure its even top 25-30 at this point

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Simple recency bias.  It's not a team issue.  It's the fact that 90% of our true All Americans played before many on scoop were born.  The only exception is Wade.

A fairer statement is that he might be the greatest pure shooter in Marquette history.  THAT I could support.

If i voted today id still say novak, but a couple more night like creighton or buffalo and id prolly have to change.
Agree with the whole GOAT thing.

Butch naismith award winner n natl championship.  And others mentioned.  Gotta play  in a final 4 or on a top 5 team to enter that conversation.  And we have a lot of greats that have done that soooo until then imo hes just the latest great MU player.  Also as good as he is he shoots a hell of a lot.  Im quite certain Tony Smith, Aaron Hutchins or Travis Diener never shot anywhere near that many times, but if they did?  All three were capable of getting white hot.

[Herman Cain]

OLee ded, hey?

Good catch 4ever, Corrected to is.

[1SE]

Yes, I agree GOAT talk depends on NCAA success during his reign. This team COULD make a FF run this year if the stars align. This team SHOULD have a realistic shot (30%) at it next year if he stays.

Markus will own just about every meaningful offensive record when he leaves. If that doesn't put him in a MU GOAT conversation I don't know what does.

[1SE]

But also very correct that dethroning Butch would be a tall order.

[Cheeks]

Simple recency bias.  It's not a team issue.  It's the fact that 90% of our true All Americans played before many on scoop were born.  The only exception is Wade.

A fairer statement is that he might be the greatest pure shooter in Marquette history.  THAT I could support.

Agree, made a similar decency bias comment earlier today, too.

The other item that some miss are whether past MU coaches would allow their guys as much of a green light that Markus has.  The old joke that only Dean Smith could keep Jordan under 20 points a game rings true with a number of coaches.

Also think we were a bit more balanced in the past, so a Wade and certainly guys in the 70's didn't have to do what MH sometimes does.  Wade was certainly capable of doing 25 a night, he just didn't need to and didn't look to.

Three point line not existing for guys in the 70's also a key component, plus the shot clock, hand checking rules, etc etc

[dgies9156]

But also very correct that dethroning Butch would be a tall order.

Having seen Butch and DWade, I think Butch already may be dethroned. I'd make Butch #2, but I think DWade is #1. Bo would be #3, Maurice Lucas #4 and either Jim Chones, George Thompson or Dean Meminger #5.

If we make a Final 4 run, Markus likely would be #3 and if we won a NatChamp, I'd make him the #2 GOAT. I guess I'm biased to an NBA hall-of-famer.

[StillAWarrior]

Also think we were a bit more balanced in the past, so a Wade and certainly guys in the 70's didn't have to do what MH sometimes does.  Wade was certainly capable of doing 25 a night, he just didn't need to and didn't look to.

Tony Smith also was capable of scoring in bunches.  My recollection is that when Smith scored a ton, we typically lost.  It was usually a bad sign that the rest of the team wasn't doing anything and Smith had to take over.

[jonny09]

Great poll......maybe he can declare.  Not get drafted (obviously) and then go play in Europe. 🙄

[Herman Cain]

Having seen Butch and DWade, I think Butch already may be dethroned. I'd make Butch #2, but I think DWade is #1. Bo would be #3, Maurice Lucas #4 and either Jim Chones, George Thompson or Dean Meminger #5.

If we make a Final 4 run, Markus likely would be #3 and if we won a NatChamp, I'd make him the #2 GOAT. I guess I'm biased to an NBA hall-of-famer.

I need to make the case for Don Kojis somewhere in that mix. The numbers he put up at MU were incredible, led the team to two NCAA tournaments and then obviously he showed it was not a fluke by being named twice to the NBA all star team and ,among other things, dunked on Wilt Chamberlin.  I saw the guy a couple of years ago at the alumni game and he looked great hard to believe he was 77 at the time.

[MU82]

Some folks here seem to know a lot about the inner workings of MU athletics. To any of them (or anybody else who might know), can Markus graduate this year? We all know he is a very smart kid, and guys DO graduate in 3 years sometimes.

[Heisenberg]

Some folks here seem to know a lot about the inner workings of MU athletics. To any of them (or anybody else who might know), can Markus graduate this year? We all know he is a very smart kid, and guys DO graduate in 3 years sometimes.

Are you thinking grad transfer to a blueblood?

[MU82]

Are you thinking grad transfer to a blueblood?

Not at all.

I'm thinking that a few folks have said that one reason he might stay is that academics matter to him, a degree matters to him. But if he graduates in 3 years, it takes away that incentive (although he could always take masters-level classes or pursue a second degree).

[AZMarqfan]

5' 10" shooting guards with limited defense and ball-handling aren't gong to last in the NBA.  He can have a great career in Europe though. 

[Heisenberg]

Add 5 games of 9 or more three pointers made, which has only been done one other time at MU.

Also freshman single game record of 34. Pretty sure he was 17 for that one.

If memory serves me, he broke Ellenson's freshman scoring record of 31.  I remember how stunned everyone here was that someone could score 30+.

Little did we know!

[Herman Cain]

If memory serves me, he broke Ellenson's freshman scoring record of 31.  I remember how stunned everyone here was that someone could score 30+.

Little did we know!

https://twitter.com/ike_eke/status/1083205514325094400

[Smokin' Jae]

Some folks here seem to know a lot about the inner workings of MU athletics. To any of them (or anybody else who might know), can Markus graduate this year? We all know he is a very smart kid, and guys DO graduate in 3 years sometimes.

No idea on Markus' standing but my guess would be it's unlikely. It's not impossible to do but if I'm not mistaken he passed on a summer session this past summer to stay in Arizona and work with his brother. You need to pretty much take advantage of every session if you want to get done in 3 years. They typically have them take the minimum credits in season to stay eligible for obvious reasons, I believe that number is around 13.

[#UnleashSean]

Not at all.

I'm thinking that a few folks have said that one reason he might stay is that academics matter to him, a degree matters to him. But if he graduates in 3 years, it takes away that incentive (although he could always take masters-level classes or pursue a second degree).

What's stopping him from going to the NBA and continuing his degree online (which they essentially already do)

[#UnleashSean]

No idea on Markus' standing but my guess would be it's unlikely. It's not impossible to do but if I'm not mistaken he passed on a summer session this past summer to stay in Arizona and work with his brother. You need to pretty much take advantage of every session if you want to get done in 3 years. They typically have them take the minimum credits in season to stay eligible for obvious reasons, I believe that number is around 13.

Full time is 12. Which is what 99 percent of athletes will take. Which is really not hard to do

[1SE]

Having seen Butch and DWade, I think Butch already may be dethroned. I'd make Butch #2, but I think DWade is #1. Bo would be #3, Maurice Lucas #4 and either Jim Chones, George Thompson or Dean Meminger #5.

If we make a Final 4 run, Markus likely would be #3 and if we won a NatChamp, I'd make him the #2 GOAT. I guess I'm biased to an NBA hall-of-famer.

Serious question - does college GOAT status depend on subsequent professional success?

Wade was a fantastic college player. And he might be the best basketball player to have spent time at Marquette. But I'd argue his greatest came more from his NBA career than his MU career.

[Goose]

dgies

No disrespect to Howard, but he can average 100, win NC and not make my top ten all time Warrior list. Hand's down he is the greatest shooter (passed Novak) and greatest scorer in MU history, IMO. The object of the game is to score more than the opponent and Howard slants one side of the court in his team's favor. Unfortunately, he does the same for the other team on the other half of the court.

Also, to me being the greatest at anything includes two characteristics, #1 that person makes others around him much better, and #2 the combination of someone being great and making others around him much better should equal winning in a very, very big way.

Howard is very entertaining to watch, no doubt about it. I have had many casual fans want to talk about him with me, which is nice to see casual wins interested in MU ball again. His place in MU history is yet to be determined, but I think he has a long, long way to go to be a top guard in school history, let alone the GOAT.

[brewcity77]

dgies

No disrespect to Howard, but he can average 100, win NC and not make my top ten all time Warrior list. Hand's down he is the greatest shooter (passed Novak) and greatest scorer in MU history, IMO. The object of the game is to score more than the opponent and Howard slants one side of the court in his team's favor. Unfortunately, he does the same for the other team on the other half of the court.

Also, to me being the greatest at anything includes two characteristics, #1 that person makes others around him much better, and #2 the combination of someone being great and making others around him much better should equal winning in a very, very big way.

Howard is very entertaining to watch, no doubt about it. I have had many casual fans want to talk about him with me, which is nice to see casual wins interested in MU ball again. His place in MU history is yet to be determined, but I think he has a long, long way to go to be a top guard in school history, let alone the GOAT.

The defensive comment just isn't true this year. When he was alongside Rowsey, sure, but his increased effort and performance on that end is very obvious this season. It helps that he can take the opposing team's worst offensive guard, but he's been a capable defender and him not being a turnstile has helped our defensive turnaround this year.

It's more than the eye test, too. Synergy had him in the 91st percentile on the defensive end going into Creighton. Now I don't think anyone would believe he's a better defender than Sacar (who ends up with the opponent's best guard most nights) as the numbers indicate, but Howard is significantly better than he was in his first two seasons.

[1SE]

I agree GOAT is more than just points, but Markus has a very high likelihood to be #1 or #2 when he leaves in MU all time:

Points
Scoring Average
3pt %
FT%

An certainly will be in the top 5 of each of those.

No other MU player is in the top 5 of more than 2 offensive categories.

In addition to holding all these single-game records.


I know it's difficult to compare eras, etc. But if being the best offensive player in MU history is coupled with some real NCAA success over the next two seasons I think he is firmly in a MU GOAT conversation.

[dgies9156]

dgies

No disrespect to Howard, but he can average 100, win NC and not make my top ten all time Warrior list. Hand's down he is the greatest shooter (passed Novak) and greatest scorer in MU history, IMO. The object of the game is to score more than the opponent and Howard slants one side of the court in his team's favor. Unfortunately, he does the same for the other team on the other half of the court.

Also, to me being the greatest at anything includes two characteristics, #1 that person makes others around him much better, and #2 the combination of someone being great and making others around him much better should equal winning in a very, very big way.

Howard is very entertaining to watch, no doubt about it. I have had many casual fans want to talk about him with me, which is nice to see casual wins interested in MU ball again. His place in MU history is yet to be determined, but I think he has a long, long way to go to be a top guard in school history, let alone the GOAT.

Brother Goose:

We're in agreement. For Markus to be a GOAT contender, we have to be a Final Four team and possibly a NatChamp. To do that will mean raising further the contribution of the Hausers, Theo and Ed and Sacar and it means being tough on defense. It's less about scoring 50+ points a game and more about making sure there is a stud on a night when Markus gets 10-15 points.

Look GOAT status is about winning. Here at Marquette, that's a very high bar given who has come before Markus. Most of the people in our GOAT rankings were champions. That's probably why Glenn Rivers and Tony Smith aren't talked about as GOAT candidates, even though both were incredible ballplayers.

To that end, what I hope Markus doesn't become is Pete Maravich, who played at LSU. The guy was a 20-40 pointer a night. LSU never amounted to anything when he played there. It looks like the way the team is playing, we'll make the tournament. Maravich might have been LSU's GOAT but he never would have been at MU.

Like you, Brother Goose, I love Markus and he's an incredible talent. He represents what Marquette is all about. But to be a GOAT contender, we're going to have to go deep in the tournament  this year and next.

Brother 1SE, no GOAT status does not depend on the NBA success. I tossed out DWade's success in the NBA because it carried on what he did at Marquette, particularly his last year here!