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Poll

If Markus continues to put up 30 and 40 point games, and stays in the conversation for NPOY, do you expect Markus to return for his senior year?

Yes, 80-100% certain he will return.
218 (50.6%)
Probably, 60-80%
149 (34.6%)
Maybe, 40-60%
42 (9.7%)
Probably not, 20-40%
16 (3.7%)
No, 0-20%.  He is ready for the league.
6 (1.4%)

Total Members Voted: 429

Author Topic: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?  (Read 22360 times)

Eldon

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #75 on: December 27, 2018, 01:48:58 PM »
Where are people getting this "too smart" and "too loyal" to leave stuff from? 

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #76 on: December 27, 2018, 02:13:45 PM »
Where are people getting this "too smart" and "too loyal" to leave stuff from?

Agreed, very curious

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #77 on: December 27, 2018, 02:27:44 PM »
Agree with this.

And this.

What NBA scouts might or might not be saying now matters little. What will they be saying 3 months from now?

Markus will -- and absolutely should -- make the decision that is best for Markus.

We are in agreement as per usual!

Timely quote on Kyler Murray from an article out today:

Said offensive coordinator Cale Gundy: "I was visiting with one scout back in fall camp, and he was like, 'He's 5-9, he can't play in our level.' And I saw the same guy at the Big 12 championship game before the game, and he came up to me and he goes, 'He'll be a first-round draft pick if he wants to come out.'"

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/25625337/kyler-murray-oklahoma-sooners-nixed-possibility-playing-nfl

brewcity77

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #78 on: December 27, 2018, 02:32:17 PM »
Markus is too smart to give up his college eligibility if his chances of getting drafted are slim.

This implies Vander was not smart to declare. With ten day contracts, didn't he end up making over $60,000 his first year as a pro? It might not be the choice we would've made or wanted him to make, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong choice for him.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #79 on: December 27, 2018, 04:12:36 PM »
This implies Vander was not smart to declare. With ten day contracts, didn't he end up making over $60,000 his first year as a pro? It might not be the choice we would've made or wanted him to make, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong choice for him.

I think the argument is Vander could have potentially played himself into the draft the following year by displaying PG abilities and better outside shooting.
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

warriorchick

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #80 on: December 27, 2018, 04:28:48 PM »
I think the argument is Vander could have potentially played himself into the draft the following year by displaying PG abilities and better outside shooting.

Something like that.
Have some patience, FFS.

brewcity77

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #81 on: December 27, 2018, 04:49:14 PM »
I think the argument is Vander could have potentially played himself into the draft the following year by displaying PG abilities and better outside shooting.

I just don't see how that would've helped more than NBA & NBADL coaching geared at the same intended outcome.

Jay Bee

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #82 on: December 27, 2018, 04:51:44 PM »
I'm OK with whatever Markus and his family and friends decide.

I hope he's at MU forever.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #83 on: December 27, 2018, 04:53:46 PM »
I hope he's at MU forever.

You think he's gonna go Jesuit!?!


Coleman

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #84 on: December 28, 2018, 08:53:27 AM »
I just don't see how that would've helped more than NBA & NBADL coaching geared at the same intended outcome.

You make a good point. At the end of the day, it is very easy for us to criticize the choices these young men make. But the reality is that none of us are in their financial situation, and none of us are privy to many of the data points that go into these decisions. In addition, to make it as far as being a high level D1 athlete, you have to have unbelievable confidence in yourself that you can beat the odds, no matter the chatter. 
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 09:05:04 AM by Coleman »

MU82

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #85 on: December 28, 2018, 09:57:12 AM »
Back in 2001, Michigan State's Jason Richardson changed his mind and decided to leave after his sophomore year. All the talk back then was how he was nowhere near ready for the NBA, he was shortchanging his own pro potential, etc, etc, etc.

Well, he only got drafted 5th overall and went on to make $105 million during a 13-year NBA career.
"I can't breathe." -- George Floyd

PGsHeroes32

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #86 on: December 28, 2018, 09:59:24 AM »
Back in 2001, Michigan State's Jason Richardson changed his mind and decided to leave after his sophomore year. All the talk back then was how he was nowhere near ready for the NBA, he was shortchanging his own pro potential, etc, etc, etc.

Well, he only got drafted 5th overall and went on to make $105 million during a 13-year NBA career.

5th overall is the key
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

brewcity77

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #87 on: December 28, 2018, 10:43:15 AM »
5th overall is the key

I don't know that it is. Yes, in Richardson's case it all worked out, but would he have been better off by waiting? His draft status wouldn't have improved much the next year (Yao Ming was always going #1 and I suspect Jay Williams still gets picked #2). He got to his second contract faster and got to the point of improving his game to a NBA level faster and there's no guarantee he plays another year longer than 2015, so that's an extra year of earnings in his bank account. He also was able to have an impact as a rookie, putting up 14/4 in 33 mpg.

I think of Blue the same way I did Buycks when he left. Both had enough athleticism and the physical tools to get some NBA run, but they were also both undersized for their position and needed to work on their game (e.g. becoming point guards) to have any chance of sticking in the NBA. Buycks didn't get the NBA looks he did because Buzz turned him into a PG, it was because of his work in France. I don't see how another year at the college level would've helped Blue. Buzz didn't turn a single guy into a NBA point guard.

Maybe Blue would've been better off going the Euro route, maybe another year would've turned him into a 2nd round pick, but what feels most likely in retrospect, especially looking at his career, is that he just wasn't ever going to be a regular NBA player. It's unfortunate, but the college ranks are full of really good players, legitimate stars, that will never be so much as a regular 15th man on a NBA roster. Blue was a great college player, but in retrospect, I don't think he was ever going to have a regular role in the NBA. I thought so at the time and was wrong. He was too small to be a SG, didn't have the three-point shot to overcome his size issues, and didn't have the handle or vision to be a PG.

MuMark

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #88 on: December 28, 2018, 11:08:19 AM »
I might even argue that Blue was a "great college player". He had one good season.......efficiency wise it wasn't a great season......104 ortg. First 2 seasons were 89 and 95.......yuck.

Certainly he was on the right trajectory.

Golden Avalanche

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #89 on: December 28, 2018, 11:28:43 AM »
I think the argument is Vander could have potentially played himself into the draft the following year by displaying PG abilities and better outside shooting.

He also could have blown his knee and lost his athleticism.

brewcity77

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #90 on: December 28, 2018, 11:41:27 AM »
He also could have blown his knee and lost his athleticism.

There's no guarantees. DJO stayed four years, was probably a better athlete with a better three point shot, was drafted, and despite starting his career earlier has played fewer NBA games than Blue.

Even if Vander sticks and everything goes perfectly, he may well have never caught on.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #91 on: December 28, 2018, 11:51:06 AM »
There's no guarantees. DJO stayed four years, was probably a better athlete with a better three point shot, was drafted, and despite starting his career earlier has played fewer NBA games than Blue.

Even if Vander sticks and everything goes perfectly, he may well have never caught on.

I doubt vander ever sticks on an nba team in any circumstance but I think there's a chance if he stays and leads that team to great season again some team could've taken a flyer on him and he gets guaranteed money. Whereas there was no first round chance when he left.
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Herman Cain

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #92 on: December 28, 2018, 12:20:04 PM »
I don't know that it is. Yes, in Richardson's case it all worked out, but would he have been better off by waiting? His draft status wouldn't have improved much the next year (Yao Ming was always going #1 and I suspect Jay Williams still gets picked #2). He got to his second contract faster and got to the point of improving his game to a NBA level faster and there's no guarantee he plays another year longer than 2015, so that's an extra year of earnings in his bank account. He also was able to have an impact as a rookie, putting up 14/4 in 33 mpg.

I think of Blue the same way I did Buycks when he left. Both had enough athleticism and the physical tools to get some NBA run, but they were also both undersized for their position and needed to work on their game (e.g. becoming point guards) to have any chance of sticking in the NBA. Buycks didn't get the NBA looks he did because Buzz turned him into a PG, it was because of his work in France. I don't see how another year at the college level would've helped Blue. Buzz didn't turn a single guy into a NBA point guard.

Maybe Blue would've been better off going the Euro route, maybe another year would've turned him into a 2nd round pick, but what feels most likely in retrospect, especially looking at his career, is that he just wasn't ever going to be a regular NBA player. It's unfortunate, but the college ranks are full of really good players, legitimate stars, that will never be so much as a regular 15th man on a NBA roster. Blue was a great college player, but in retrospect, I don't think he was ever going to have a regular role in the NBA. I thought so at the time and was wrong. He was too small to be a SG, didn't have the three-point shot to overcome his size issues, and didn't have the handle or vision to be a PG.
I have been closely following Vander's fortunes since he left MU. Several things stand out. He is not consistent in his play.Yes he put up some big G League stats in years past, but the game to game consistency was not there.  When he got his chance in the NBA last year he did not capitalize on it, although to be fair he actually did what they asked him to do.

Further , he has never been able to establish himself on any major foreign circuit. In fact in his most recent European stint in Italy, he  was cut mid season and came with his tail between his legs after a terrible performance. He did win an MVP of a tournament in Italy but then his shooting  fell off a  cliff .   He is now back in the G league with the Wisconsin Herd and is playing poorly there shooting terribly. The positive is he keeps working hard and trying. Reality is he is going to have to go to a lower foreign league if he wants to make money or just keep kicking around G League as long as he can, but eventually even that ends.

Buycks on the other hand has had several NBA runs . He did reasonably well last year in Detroit and probably would have stuck  this season if SVG was not fired. However, unlike Blue,  Buycks has done very well on Foreign circuits. Was an MVP in the French League and is back in China at the highest level and putting up big production.  Buycks, who also is a tenacious defender, will likely get another chance in the NBA possibly ,as early as this season ,when the Chinese league is over. 

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #93 on: December 28, 2018, 07:41:26 PM »
#M2N

Johnny B

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #94 on: December 28, 2018, 07:52:49 PM »
What does the n stand for?

warriorchick

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #95 on: December 28, 2018, 08:02:37 PM »
What does the n stand for?

Netherlands.  He's going to play Euro ball.
Have some patience, FFS.

Johnny B

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #96 on: December 28, 2018, 08:04:48 PM »
Netherlands.  He's going to play Euro ball.
?-(

Otule's Glass Eye

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #97 on: December 28, 2018, 08:18:04 PM »
A good comp I saw for Markus relating to his size is Yogi Ferrell, Indiana guard who I believe was undrafted but was given a shot and made the most of it as a prolific scorer, he is only 6’0, 1 inch taller than Markus.

PGsHeroes32

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #98 on: December 28, 2018, 08:23:20 PM »
I don't know that it is. Yes, in Richardson's case it all worked out, but would he have been better off by waiting? His draft status wouldn't have improved much the next year (Yao Ming was always going #1 and I suspect Jay Williams still gets picked #2). He got to his second contract faster and got to the point of improving his game to a NBA level faster and there's no guarantee he plays another year longer than 2015, so that's an extra year of earnings in his bank account. He also was able to have an impact as a rookie, putting up 14/4 in 33 mpg.

I think of Blue the same way I did Buycks when he left. Both had enough athleticism and the physical tools to get some NBA run, but they were also both undersized for their position and needed to work on their game (e.g. becoming point guards) to have any chance of sticking in the NBA. Buycks didn't get the NBA looks he did because Buzz turned him into a PG, it was because of his work in France. I don't see how another year at the college level would've helped Blue. Buzz didn't turn a single guy into a NBA point guard.

Maybe Blue would've been better off going the Euro route, maybe another year would've turned him into a 2nd round pick, but what feels most likely in retrospect, especially looking at his career, is that he just wasn't ever going to be a regular NBA player. It's unfortunate, but the college ranks are full of really good players, legitimate stars, that will never be so much as a regular 15th man on a NBA roster. Blue was a great college player, but in retrospect, I don't think he was ever going to have a regular role in the NBA. I thought so at the time and was wrong. He was too small to be a SG, didn't have the three-point shot to overcome his size issues, and didn't have the handle or vision to be a PG.

No I’m saying the key is he was a guy who could go 5th overall.

So it doesn’t matter if “people disagreed” with his call. He was gonna get paid.

Vander had zero guarantee of being paid.

So using a 5th overall pick as a talking point was irrelevant
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

TSmith34

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #99 on: December 28, 2018, 09:09:44 PM »
Netherlands.  He's going to play Euro ball.
Unless Norway drafts him first.
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