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* Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
Marquette

Madness

Date/Time: Oct 4, 2019
TV: ???
Schedule for 2018-19
24-10

Poll

If Markus continues to put up 30 and 40 point games, and stays in the conversation for NPOY, do you expect Markus to return for his senior year?

Yes, 80-100% certain he will return.
218 (50.6%)
Probably, 60-80%
149 (34.6%)
Maybe, 40-60%
42 (9.7%)
Probably not, 20-40%
16 (3.7%)
No, 0-20%.  He is ready for the league.
6 (1.4%)

Total Members Voted: 431

Author Topic: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?  (Read 16616 times)

AirPunch

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #125 on: December 29, 2018, 10:48:10 PM »
Maybe I’m being delusional, but I think Howard stays for his fourth year solely because he wants to be at MU and do something special his senior year with the team regardless of whether or not he thinks he will be drafted after this year or if he “doesn’t think his stock will get any higher.”

GGGG

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #126 on: December 30, 2018, 07:51:29 AM »
The story keeps getting worse and worse for poor Vander. Tonight he only played 6 minutes for the Wisconsin Herd. In the space of two years he has gone from g league MVP to potentially getting cut.

His game just doesn’t mesh with how the Bucks want to play. Sounds like his career might be winding down way too soon.

Floorslapper

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #127 on: December 30, 2018, 10:01:53 AM »
The story keeps getting worse and worse for poor Vander. Tonight he only played 6 minutes for the Wisconsin Herd. In the space of two years he has gone from g league MVP to potentially getting cut.

Wonder if Vander made some poor lifestyle decisions that potentially spiraled his career downhill so fast?  The Italian experience was odd, and the above.  Just doesn't make a lot of sense how he could fall off so far, so fast?

As for Markus - I voted the 40-60% option.  He and his brother came up with the "League Me" phrase, as I recall.  No doubt it is his end goal.  If it is there for the taking after this season in the way of being a projected first round pick, I think it is wishful thinking on our part that he stays for his senior year.   He keeps playing this well, despite being 5'10" I think some team would take him late first round.  He's young and super high character with an elite skill.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #128 on: December 30, 2018, 10:55:45 AM »
I believe league me is the name of his brothers training business
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Heisenberg v2.0

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #129 on: December 30, 2018, 12:21:06 PM »
Wonder if Vander made some poor lifestyle decisions that potentially spiraled his career downhill so fast?  The Italian experience was odd, and the above.  Just doesn't make a lot of sense how he could fall off so far, so fast?

As for Markus - I voted the 40-60% option.  He and his brother came up with the "League Me" phrase, as I recall.  No doubt it is his end goal.  If it is there for the taking after this season in the way of being a projected first round pick, I think it is wishful thinking on our part that he stays for his senior year.   He keeps playing this well, despite being 5'10" I think some team would take him late first round.  He's young and super high character with an elite skill.

Players drafted under 6 feet

2018 = 0
2017 = 0
2016 = Tyler Ulis (5'10") #34 (second round #4)
            Kahlil Fielder (5'9") #54 (second round #24)

2015 = 0
2014 = 0
2013 = Shane Larkin (5'11") #18 (first round #18)
           Pierre Jackson (5' 10") #40 (second round #10)

2012 = 0
2011 = Isiah Thomas (5' 10") #60 (last player drafted)
2010 = 0

-----------------

Ulis has played 133 games, starting only 58.  Journeymen, averaging 7.5 points a game
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3136194/tyler-ulis

Kahlil Fielder, out of the NBA after playing in 58 games over three seasons, starting none
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3062892/kay-felder

Shane Larkin out of the NBA after playing in 256 games over four seasons, starting only 41
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2596158/shane-larkin

Pierre Jackson out of the NBA after playing only eight games, starting one his rookie year.
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2578204/pierre-jackson

Isiah Thomas is a legit player, the only one under 6'0'' drafted in the last eight years.


----


So in the last eight drafts, exactly one player under 6 feet has been drafted in the first round and Larkin did not distinguish himself.

The only way MH gets drafted in the first round is he drops 40 in a half to win the NCAA championship game and gets invited to talk about it on the Today show and Jimmy Fallon.  Short of that type of buzz, plenty of teams will invite him to camp but no one will draft him.

Returns his senior year

 
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 05:38:12 PM by Tower Tops »

MU82

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #130 on: December 30, 2018, 03:52:28 PM »
Good research by Smuggles shows how unlikely it is that Markus will get drafted at all, let alone in the first round, and let alone after this season.

I hope he plays so well in the NCAA tournament that he forces NBA GMs to take him seriously. Maybe 25 a game during our run to the second title in Marquette history would do it!
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

-- Pope Francis

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #131 on: December 30, 2018, 04:07:20 PM »
Players drafted under 6 feet

2018 = 0
2017 = 0
2016 = Tyler Ulis (5'10") #34 (second round #4)
            Kahlil Fielder (5'9") #54 (second round #24)

2015 = 0
2014 = 0
2013 = Shane Larkin (5'11") #18 (first round #18)
           Pierre Jackson (5' 10") #40 (second round #10)

2012 = 0
2011 = Isiah Thomas (5' 10") #60 (last player drafted)
2010 = 0

-----------------

Ulis has played 133 games, starting only 58.  Journeymen, averaging 7.5 points a game
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3136194/tyler-ulis

Kahlil Fielder, out of the NBA after playing in 58 games over three seasons, starting none
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3062892/kay-felder

Shane Larkin out of the NBA after playing in 256 games over four seasons, starting only 41
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2596158/shane-larkin

Pierre Jackson out of the NBA after playing only eight games, starting one his rookie year.
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2578204/pierre-jackson

Isiah Thomas is a legit player, the only one under 6'0'' drafted in the last eight years.


----


So in the last eight drafts, exactly one player under 6 feet has been drafted in the first round and Larkin did not distinguish himself.

The only way MH gets drafted in the first round is he drops 40 in a half to win the NCAA championship game and gets invited to talk about it on the Today show and Jimmy Fallon.  Short of that type of buzz, plenty of teams will invite him to camp but no one will draft him. It took Ulis running the point to win the Championship game to generate enough buzz to even get drafted in the second round.

Returns his senior year

?? Ullis ran the show for a Kentucky team that got bounced in round 2 then declared early

Not sure what you were looking at there but it's not true.

Heisenberg v2.0

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #132 on: December 30, 2018, 05:40:52 PM »
?? Ullis ran the show for a Kentucky team that got bounced in round 2 then declared early

Not sure what you were looking at there but it's not true.

Jumbled him with Tyrus Jones … sorry about that (took that part out)

(Jones is listed as 6' 2" and was the #24 pick in the 2015 draft)

Heisenberg v2.0

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #133 on: December 30, 2018, 05:44:27 PM »
Good research by Smuggles shows how unlikely it is that Markus will get drafted at all, let alone in the first round, and let alone after this season.

I hope he plays so well in the NCAA tournament that he forces NBA GMs to take him seriously. Maybe 25 a game during our run to the second title in Marquette history would do it!

Exactly, the only way MH is a first round pick is he impressed so much on the big stage that his parents have Jim Nantz's mobile number.  And before he is drafted, we are hanging a "real and substantial" banner in Fiserv.

So, yes I sincerely hope he does what it takes to be a first round pick!

GGGG

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #134 on: December 30, 2018, 05:45:06 PM »
None of those guys could shoot like Markus however.  Again, not saying he would be drafted or would stick, but he is very good at something the NBA covets.

MU82

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #135 on: December 30, 2018, 06:21:41 PM »
None of those guys could shoot like Markus however.  Again, not saying he would be drafted or would stick, but he is very good at something the NBA covets.

This is true, Sultan.

And I was wrong about Lazar; never thought he'd be a first-round pick. And I was wrong about Buycks; never thought he would play a second in the NBA. Markus can shoot the rock, and more than ever the NBA is a shooters' league.
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

-- Pope Francis

Heisenberg v2.0

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #136 on: December 30, 2018, 06:29:31 PM »
This is true, Sultan.

And I was wrong about Lazar; never thought he'd be a first-round pick. And I was wrong about Buycks; never thought he would play a second in the NBA. Markus can shoot the rock, and more than ever the NBA is a shooters' league.

Which is why every team in the league will invite him to camp as a free agent.  But use a draft pick on a 5'10 shooter that cannot really run the point or guard 6'4 guys????

94Warrior

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #137 on: January 10, 2019, 12:30:49 AM »
Anybody care to change their answer?

I'd put it at about 50-50 right now.

Cheeks

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #138 on: January 10, 2019, 12:32:38 AM »
Anybody care to change their answer?

I'd put it at about 50-50 right now.

Nope.
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NorthernDancerColt

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #139 on: January 10, 2019, 12:43:53 AM »
Anybody care to change their answer?

I'd put it at about 50-50 right now.

It’s on League scouts/GMs and Markus. If yes, say Hi to Symir Torrence in 2019. If no, expect more heavy downpour 3-torrents and Symir 2020.

I’ll take either scenario.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 12:45:49 AM by NorthernDancerColt »
Zenyatta has a lot....a lot... of ground to make up. She gets there from here she’d be a super horse......what’s this.....Zenyatta hooked to the grandstand side....Zenyatta flying on the outside....this....is...un-belieeeeeevable!...looked impossible at the top of the stretch...

warriorchick

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #140 on: January 10, 2019, 08:21:30 AM »
Anybody care to change their answer?

I'd put it at about 50-50 right now.

I find it unlikely unless he vastly improves his non-shooting skills.  I can't see any team drafting a sub-six-foot guard with his turnover stats.
Have some patience, FFS.

Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #141 on: January 10, 2019, 08:27:14 AM »
Markus is great and i love him at Marquette, however i think the 9 turnovers stand out as much, if not more to NBA GMs as tge 53 points do.
Additionally, his major stinker games, such as 2-15 at SJU dont do him any favors.  Pros dont get taken out of college games so often.  And while Markus has definitely cut down on the stinkers the standard deviation of his level of play is still very high.  Needs more consistancy.
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Lazar's Headband

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #142 on: January 10, 2019, 08:33:37 AM »
As great as Markus was, last night didn't do much for his draft stock.  Creighton plays 4 guys 6-5 and under almost all the time.

The NBA is a different game.  Many 6-7 to 6-9 wings to contest shots on the perimeter.   Markus needs to perform well in workouts against NBA prospects or games against other a legitimate draft prospects.

Kansas, Indiana,  St. John's...those games aren't forgotten just because Markus lights up Kansas State, Buffalo,  and Creighton.

tower912

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #143 on: January 10, 2019, 08:36:01 AM »
Is he suddenly 4 inches taller?   If his height hasn't changed, then my expectations as to whether he returns haven't changed.
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StillAWarrior

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #144 on: January 10, 2019, 08:49:25 AM »
I think it's pretty clear that Markus will finish his career as Marquette's all-time leading scorers, and one of the all-time greats.  I love the kid.  He's fantastic, and really, really fun to watch.  But, I really just don't see him having much of an impact in the NBA unless he gets significantly better with the ball.  I think he'll probably get drafted in the second round after his senior season.  Some coach will try to figure out a way to take advantage of his great scoring ability, but it's tough for a 5'10" guard in the NBA unless he's got an incredible handle.
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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #145 on: January 10, 2019, 09:03:13 AM »
Anybody care to change their answer?

I'd put it at about 50-50 right now.

No change to my answer, still in the "Probably not, 20-40%" camp along with 2.9% of the respondents.



Still more likely that not he goes pro in my mind. A major slump, injury, or a burning desire to win a natty with his boys right after his 21st bday (assuming we don't get it done this year!) are the biggest impediments at this point. Not height.

MU82

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #146 on: January 10, 2019, 09:14:09 AM »
As great as Markus was, last night didn't do much for his draft stock.  Creighton plays 4 guys 6-5 and under almost all the time.

The NBA is a different game.  Many 6-7 to 6-9 wings to contest shots on the perimeter.   Markus needs to perform well in workouts against NBA prospects or games against other a legitimate draft prospects.

Kansas, Indiana,  St. John's...those games aren't forgotten just because Markus lights up Kansas State, Buffalo,  and Creighton.

Just to play devil's advocate ... in the NBA, especially at first, Markus presumably would be used as a spot-up shooter. There would be actual NBA stars to drive and kick it out to him, and he often would be open to fire. Think of how effective he was as a freshman, when we had Rowsey, Sam, Reinhardt, JJJ, etc. -- and every NBA team (even the bad ones) have playmakers a lot better than those guys. Markus is the man now, ball in his hands 80% of the time, maybe more. That would not be the case in the NBA, where he would be Craig Hodges or J.J. Redick.

Having said all that, I still find it hard to believe that somebody his height, who is as loose with basketball as he is, could make it in the NBA. But he's a pretty amazing young man, so I don't put it past him.

Still more likely that not he goes pro in my mind.

I certainly wouldn't doubt that this turns out to be true, EMR.

When you feel you have accomplished a ton, and you have confidence in your ability, the allure of testing yourself at the highest level is hard to fight. He obviously will go through all the camps and evaluations he legally can, and unless he hears repeatedly that he has zero chance to make it in the league, it might be difficult for him not to go.

Enjoying the hell out of watching him while he's here!
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

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StillAWarrior

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #147 on: January 10, 2019, 09:21:23 AM »
That would not be the case in the NBA, where he would be Craig Hodges or J.J. Redick.


But again, that illustrates one of the key challenges he faces.  As great as Markus is, he's somewhere in the range of 4-6" shorter than those guys. 
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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #148 on: January 10, 2019, 09:44:02 AM »
Just to play devil's advocate ... in the NBA, especially at first, Markus presumably would be used as a spot-up shooter. There would be actual NBA stars to drive and kick it out to him, and he often would be open to fire. Think of how effective he was as a freshman, when we had Rowsey, Sam, Reinhardt, JJJ, etc. -- and every NBA team (even the bad ones) have playmakers a lot better than those guys. Markus is the man now, ball in his hands 80% of the time, maybe more. That would not be the case in the NBA, where he would be Craig Hodges or J.J. Redick.

Having said all that, I still find it hard to believe that somebody his height, who is as loose with basketball as he is, could make it in the NBA. But he's a pretty amazing young man, so I don't put it past him.

I certainly wouldn't doubt that this turns out to be true, EMR.

When you feel you have accomplished a ton, and you have confidence in your ability, the allure of testing yourself at the highest level is hard to fight. He obviously will go through all the camps and evaluations he legally can, and unless he hears repeatedly that he has zero chance to make it in the league, it might be difficult for him not to go.

Enjoying the hell out of watching him while he's here!

To devil's advocate your devil's advocacy:

Trae Young: 6'2", 180 lbs., 20% TO Rate, 19.3 years old, #5 overall pick
Isaiah Thomas, 5'8", 185 lbs, 18.9% TO Rate, 21.9 years old, #60 overall pick, proven high level player in the NBA
Markus Howard: 5'11", 175 lbs, 17.6% TO Rate, 19.8 years old


Reports of Markus' looseness with the ball have been greatly exaggerated! He compares favorably to a couple recent small/slight guys in terms of overall efficiency, age, and handle. We're all so laser focused on every possession as super fans of this team that we think his TO's are out of the ordinary.



I'm also enjoying the sh*t out of the ride he's taking us on!

MU82

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Re: Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?
« Reply #149 on: January 10, 2019, 09:54:40 AM »
To devil's advocate your devil's advocacy:

Trae Young: 6'2", 180 lbs., 20% TO Rate, 19.3 years old, #5 overall pick
Isaiah Thomas, 5'8", 185 lbs, 18.9% TO Rate, 21.9 years old, #60 overall pick, proven high level player in the NBA
Markus Howard: 5'11", 175 lbs, 17.6% TO Rate, 19.8 years old


Reports of Markus' looseness with the ball have been greatly exaggerated! He compares favorably to a couple recent small/slight guys in terms of overall efficiency, age, and handle. We're all so laser focused on every possession as super fans of this team that we think his TO's are out of the ordinary.



I'm also enjoying the sh*t out of the ride he's taking us on!

Oh yeah, well now I'll play ...

Seriously, that's a really good post. We fans do get tunnel vision when it comes to our own players, which can be good and bad.

I'd love to see Markus make it. More than ever, the NBA is about spacing the floor and shooting the 3. He certainly can help in that department.

When you have the ball as much as Markus does, you are gonna have turnovers. You've converted me - ha!
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

-- Pope Francis