NFL 2018-19 2.0

[Pakuni]

Brother Pakuni:

I'm not intimate with the charter and bylaws of the NFL. I have better things to do with my time. But to suggest the NFL is not a for profit business that grants franchises and regulates franchise behavior is, well, something out there!

Nobody actually said this.
That said, the NFL does not grant franchises or regulate franchise behavior. The other franchises do that. The NFL is merely the mechanism by which the owners act in concert.
This is why the McDonald's analogy is a poor one. At McDonald's, the corporate office doesn't take its orders from the franchises. In the NFL, the league office absolutely takes its orders from the franchises. Pretty sure Roger Goodell doesn't take a dump without clearing it first with Jerry Jones or Bob Kraft.

[Cheeks]

Nobody actually said this.
That said, the NFL does not grant franchises or regulate franchise behavior. The other franchises do that. The NFL is merely the mechanism by which the owners act in concert.
This is why the McDonald's analogy is a poor one. At McDonald's, the corporate office doesn't take its orders from the franchises. In the NFL, the league office absolutely takes its orders from the franchises. Pretty sure Roger Goodell doesn't take a dump without clearing it first with Jerry Jones or Bob Kraft.

What do you mean the NFL doesn't regulate franchise behavior?  They sure as hell do.  The punishment for wrongdoing may ultimately come from the other owners, but there are requirements that each franchise must adhere to that the NFL oversees.  Now, we can debate what the "NFL" is, but you are getting into semantics at that point.  Franchises have strict bylaws that each one must follow or be fined, have draft picks taken away, etc, etc,

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Excuse me? That's like saying McDonald's is a collection of firms. The NFL is a multi-billion business with franchisees, just like McDonald's or Yum Brands. The League exerts control over the franchisees, who agree to the League's bylaws and regulation as a condition of their franchise agreement.

Secondly, how do you know there is collusion? On what basis? Perhaps they think alike or fear the contagion of Kapernick using the NFL for a political forum.

I get people do not like the NFL. It's big business and its primary product brings out some of the worst aspects of human behavior. But the owners who bought in paid hundreds of millions of dollars (unless you're the Halases or gave money to the Green Bay Packers) and their goal is to make billions.

And for those of you who don't think the NFL is genius, what's the most popular sports league in the world? Probably the NFL.

The NFL isn't the most popular sports league in the world.  The English Premier League hold that title.  My guess is La Liga isn't that far behind.  I don't even think the NFL is the most popular American league worldwide.  The NBA has a much larger audience outside the US than the NFL does.

And if you don't think collusion is occurring I don't know what to say.  And even if there is no collusion, the idea that Kaepernick is some how more of a pariah because he kneels for the Anthem, versus players who commit violent crime, often of a sexual nature, then there is a serious problem with the mindset of the owners and viewers.

[Pakuni]

What do you mean the NFL doesn't regulate franchise behavior?  They sure as hell do.  The punishment for wrongdoing may ultimately come from the other owners, but there are requirements that each franchise must adhere to that the NFL oversees.  Now, we can debate what the "NFL" is, but you are getting into semantics at that point.  Franchises have strict bylaws that each one must follow or be fined, have draft picks taken away, etc, etc,

I mean the NFL doesn't regulate franchise behavior. It is simply the means by which the owners regulate franchise behavior.
In this regard, think of the NFL as the criminal justice system. Police, prosecutors, judges, etc. don't regulate citizen behavior. Other citizens do, through their elected representatives who write the laws. The justice system is the mechanism through which those laws are enforced, and can only enforce them via the authority granted to it by the citizens. The NFL doesn't write the laws for its franchises, and can only enforce them via the authority granted to it by team owners, who also write the laws.

And no, this is not a semantical argument. It goes to the heart of what the NFL is and isn't, and is why the NFL is not at all like McDonald's. You clearly don't understand that or are feigning ignorance because you like to argue.

[MU82]

And if you don't think collusion is occurring I don't know what to say.  And even if there is no collusion, the idea that Kaepernick is some how more of a pariah because he kneels for the Anthem, versus players who commit violent crime, often of a sexual nature, then there is a serious problem with the mindset of the owners and viewers.

Obvious collusion against Kaepernick ... though I do wonder if he might have a chance of getting signed if he made it known that $$ wasn't an issue. If Eric Reid had demanded top-dollar, the Panthers wouldn't have signed him last year; he didn't get top-dollar until he proved he could still play and that he wouldn't be a distraction. Obviously, things are different when it comes to QBs. A safety or guard or linebacker can kind of blend into the woodwork; a QB can't.

But obviously Kaepernick has more talent than dozens of QBs employed in the NFL. Anybody who denies that, I question his or her knowledge and/or honesty.

[Cheeks]

But obviously Kaepernick has more talent than dozens of QBs employed in the NFL. Anybody who denies that, I question his or her knowledge and/or honesty.

But those guys aren't sticking a finger into the eye of the customer base that pays for their salaries, that's the difference. They aren't also wearing pig cop socks.  I question anyone's honesty or knowledge that denies this reality, also.   Kap isn't good enough to put an organization through that.  If guys want to protest on their own time, have at it.  Once you do it at work, that changes the equation and ANY employer has a right to say enough.  There are many ways to effect change, and men / women do it daily.  He chose the wrong approach and the pig socks stuff pushed a LOT of people away.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Now the NFL is banning certain players from the combine preventing teams to talk to and determine anything about a player, yet the league allows teams to employ many players that have been found guilty of similar behavior.

[4everwarriors]

Hoo goes ta McD's, hey?

[StillAWarrior]

Obvious collusion against Kaepernick ... though I do wonder if he might have a chance of getting signed if he made it known that $$ wasn't an issue. If Eric Reid had demanded top-dollar, the Panthers wouldn't have signed him last year; he didn't get top-dollar until he proved he could still play and that he wouldn't be a distraction. Obviously, things are different when it comes to QBs. A safety or guard or linebacker can kind of blend into the woodwork; a QB can't.

But obviously Kaepernick has more talent than dozens of QBs employed in the NFL. Anybody who denies that, I question his or her knowledge and/or honesty.

I find myself leaning toward the other side of the CK issue than most people would expect.  Even though I don't necessarily agree with him on some of the underlying issues he is protesting (and also don't necessarily agree with a lot of the other issues that have tried to piggy back on him), I respect what he's done.  I think he's brave.  I think he stood up for what he believed in, at great cost, and I respect that.  Also, I am absolutely convinced that he is not currently playing in the NFL because he took that stand.

That said, I'm not convinced there is any collusion.  I don't doubt for a minute that NFL teams are retaliating against him because of what he did.
 If he hand't taken a knee, he'd be on someone's roster right now.  He's undeniably better than many QBs that are currently in the league.  But that's not the same as collusion.  I understand that owners don't want to touch him because he's a very controversial and divisive figure.  Because of that, he's not working while less talented QBs are.  But there's nothing that prevents all the owners from reaching the same conclusion.  If they reach that conclusion together, that's collusion.  But if each of the owners decides that he's just not worth the PR hit, that's not collusion.

Perhaps evidence of actual collusion will emerge.  If so, then he'll win his lawsuit.  But I just think a lot of people (not necessarily you, 82) think that saying "no proof of collusion" is the same as saying "CK isn't good enough to play."  He's absolutely good enough to play, IMO.  And I'm convinced he's not getting picked up because he took a knee for the National Anthem.  But that doesn't mean that I'm convinced there was collusion.

[Cheeks]

Collusion means multiple teams involved to collectively make a decision together.  It is absolutely possible that each team on their own said, it isn't worth it.  Most NFL fans were against CK's actions, there is ample data that CBS, ESPN, Verizon, Aneheiser Busch, SiriusXM, and countless others that survey their customers on these matters shows.  People running NFL teams aren't dumb, and they can very easily on their own make the simple calculation that it isn't worth it.

The Browns just decided to take on Hunt, I guarantee you 20+ teams on their own said it isn't worth it, but all it takes is one to do it.  That isn't collusion that the 20+ said no...that was their own risk calculation. If someone wants to take on CK, they certainly can, but they would be doing so against their customer's wishes based on the data out there and they have probably said it isn't worth it.  Collusion is tough to prove and my hunch is individual teams came to their decisions rather easily on their own.

[Pakuni]

Boy, this guy really stuck it to Nike and Kaepernick:

A Colorado sports store is closing its doors after sales dropped following the owner's decision last year to stop stocking Nike items, according to KOAA News 5 in Pueblo, Col.
Prime Time Sports owner Stephen Martin told News 5 that he can no longer afford his lease at Chapel Hills Mall in Colorado Springs after being open over 20 years.
Last year he decided to stop selling Nike items after the brand made former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick the face of its 30th anniversary "Just Do It" campaign.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/13/colorado-store-closing-colin-kaepernick-protest-nike

[Jockey]

Boy, this guy really stuck it to Nike and Kaepernick:

A Colorado sports store is closing its doors after sales dropped following the owner's decision last year to stop stocking Nike items, according to KOAA News 5 in Pueblo, Col.
Prime Time Sports owner Stephen Martin told News 5 that he can no longer afford his lease at Chapel Hills Mall in Colorado Springs after being open over 20 years.
Last year he decided to stop selling Nike items after the brand made former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick the face of its 30th anniversary "Just Do It" campaign.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/13/colorado-store-closing-colin-kaepernick-protest-nike

And some people don’t think life is fair?

[dgies9156]

And if you don't think collusion is occurring I don't know what to say.  And even if there is no collusion, the idea that Kaepernick is some how more of a pariah because he kneels for the Anthem, versus players who commit violent crime, often of a sexual nature, then there is a serious problem with the mindset of the owners and viewers.

Brother Fluffy, there may well be collusion. But I prefer to make my judgements based on all the evidence in a trial. We'll see what the courts say.

There are people all over America who cannot get jobs in their ideal fields, no matter who they talk to, for subjective reasons that may or may not be applicable to their skill set. Their temperament, their reputation or some other baggage they bring with them. That's not collusion. It's reality.

[MU82]

I find myself leaning toward the other side of the CK issue than most people would expect.  Even though I don't necessarily agree with him on some of the underlying issues he is protesting (and also don't necessarily agree with a lot of the other issues that have tried to piggy back on him), I respect what he's done.  I think he's brave.  I think he stood up for what he believed in, at great cost, and I respect that.  Also, I am absolutely convinced that he is not currently playing in the NFL because he took that stand.

That said, I'm not convinced there is any collusion.  I don't doubt for a minute that NFL teams are retaliating against him because of what he did.
 If he hand't taken a knee, he'd be on someone's roster right now.  He's undeniably better than many QBs that are currently in the league.  But that's not the same as collusion.  I understand that owners don't want to touch him because he's a very controversial and divisive figure.  Because of that, he's not working while less talented QBs are.  But there's nothing that prevents all the owners from reaching the same conclusion.  If they reach that conclusion together, that's collusion.  But if each of the owners decides that he's just not worth the PR hit, that's not collusion.

Perhaps evidence of actual collusion will emerge.  If so, then he'll win his lawsuit.  But I just think a lot of people (not necessarily you, 82) think that saying "no proof of collusion" is the same as saying "CK isn't good enough to play."  He's absolutely good enough to play, IMO.  And I'm convinced he's not getting picked up because he took a knee for the National Anthem.  But that doesn't mean that I'm convinced there was collusion.

You know, that's all very reasonable. "Collusion" would be all teams working in concert to keep him out of the league, the way baseball teams colluded back in the late-80s to suppress salaries. So until a court of law rules that there has been collusion, I'll refrain from using that word. I like your eloquent, nuanced (and I think accurate) explanation better.

But those guys aren't sticking a finger into the eye of the customer base that pays for their salaries, that's the difference. They aren't also wearing pig cop socks.  I question anyone's honesty or knowledge that denies this reality, also.   Kap isn't good enough to put an organization through that.  If guys want to protest on their own time, have at it.  Once you do it at work, that changes the equation and ANY employer has a right to say enough.  There are many ways to effect change, and men / women do it daily.  He chose the wrong approach and the pig socks stuff pushed a LOT of people away.

The anti-cop socks were stupid. He also has said a couple of stupid things. This just in: He isn't a perfect human being and isn't even a perfect spokesperson for his own cause.

But I disagree that anthem kneelers are "sticking a finger into the eye of the customer base." You are free to disagree with my disagreement. Lots of people who stuck lots of fingers into lots of eyes fought for both of us being free to have opinions.

It's a peaceful protest -- and an effective one. All this time later, it still has us discussing it, which is the very idea of a protest. It also has resulted in the NFL donating millions of dollars to causes important to minorities, so it was definitely effective.

Every NFL kneeler that I know about who is good enough to play has a job in the NFL except Kaepernick. I'm not naive; I understand the ramifications of what he did and why most owners consider him toxic. And I understand the difference between a safety and a QB.

As an NFL fan and an American, I hope that one owner will be brave enough to give Kaepernick a chance to help his team win. Indeed, I hope David Tepper is that owner. As a Panthers fan who has seen his QB get hurt 3 straight years and whose backups have been less than stellar, I'd love to have a guy with Kaepernick's talent on my roster. I'm one fan. Some Panthers fans surely agree with me and some surely disagree. Some would cancel their season tickets, just as some claim to have done when Reid was signed. I say "good riddance," Tepper might not agree.

Tepper -- an owner who is no fan of the one American who used his bully pulpit the loudest and an owner who willingly signed and re-signed anthem-kneeler Eric Reid -- would seem to be among the most logical suggestions as an owner who would be willing to sign Kaepernick, no?

I say that not knowing what Kaepernick wants financially or playing-time-wise. The Panthers already have some salary-cap issues, so I don't want to pay any backup QB big bucks, and we obviously have a very good starting QB already. But if Kaepernick is willing to come to Carolina under team-friendly financial terms and accept his role, I'd love to see Tepper sign him.

A few days back, here in the NFL thread, all I did was say that I was happy Tepper re-signed Reid and that I hoped he'd consider signing Kaepernick, all purely for football reasons. Others, including you, turned it into yet another beating-the-dead-horse political discussion.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Boy, this guy really stuck it to Nike and Kaepernick:

A Colorado sports store is closing its doors after sales dropped following the owner's decision last year to stop stocking Nike items, according to KOAA News 5 in Pueblo, Col.
Prime Time Sports owner Stephen Martin told News 5 that he can no longer afford his lease at Chapel Hills Mall in Colorado Springs after being open over 20 years.
Last year he decided to stop selling Nike items after the brand made former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick the face of its 30th anniversary "Just Do It" campaign.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/13/colorado-store-closing-colin-kaepernick-protest-nike

Stupid is as stupid does, my mom always said

[Cheeks]

Boy, this guy really stuck it to Nike and Kaepernick:

A Colorado sports store is closing its doors after sales dropped following the owner's decision last year to stop stocking Nike items, according to KOAA News 5 in Pueblo, Col.
Prime Time Sports owner Stephen Martin told News 5 that he can no longer afford his lease at Chapel Hills Mall in Colorado Springs after being open over 20 years.
Last year he decided to stop selling Nike items after the brand made former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick the face of its 30th anniversary "Just Do It" campaign.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/13/colorado-store-closing-colin-kaepernick-protest-nike

Dumb businessperson.  Michael Jordan said it best about who buys his sneakers, people of all walks of life. 

[jutaw22mu]

I'm sick of hearing about Colin Kaepernick. He has made quite a bit of money from taking a knee---at this point, he might not proactively be seeking a QB job in the league. It's hard to imagine that the Bills/Redskins didn't contact him when they were both in dire need of a decent QB.   Maybe he is not interested, maybe they turned him down.  If he truly just wanted to play, he could use the AAF to make a case for himself....if I was desperate to get back in the league, I would do anything.

If Kaep was a great QB, he would not have lost his job.  He was always mediocre....good enough to be the guy on a bad team, but would never take a job away from those guys who he had better numbers than in his last season.  Unfortunately, mediocre is not good enough to keep. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'm sick of hearing about Colin Kaepernick. He has made quite a bit of money from taking a knee---at this point, he might not proactively be seeking a QB job in the league. It's hard to imagine that the Bills/Redskins didn't contact him when they were both in dire need of a decent QB.   Maybe he is not interested, maybe they turned him down.  If he truly just wanted to play, he could use the AAF to make a case for himself....if I was desperate to get back in the league, I would do anything.

If Kaep was a great QB, he would not have lost his job.  He was always mediocre....good enough to be the guy on a bad team, but would never take a job away from those guys who he had better numbers than in his last season.  Unfortunately, mediocre is not good enough to keep. 

Nathan Peterman is still on an NFL roster.

[Pakuni]

Nathan Peterman is still on an NFL roster.

Exactly. Said it before, say it again ... anyone who thinks Kaepernick is out of the NFL is because he's not good enough for the NFL knows zero about football.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Is Pukuni hoopalopping with Da Pontiff? Dont remember pakuni being this argumentative in the past.

[Jockey]

I'm sick of hearing about Colin Kaepernick. He has made quite a bit of money from taking a knee---at this point, he might not proactively be seeking a QB job in the league. It's hard to imagine that the Bills/Redskins didn't contact him when they were both in dire need of a decent QB.   Maybe he is not interested, maybe they turned him down.  If he truly just wanted to play, he could use the AAF to make a case for himself....if I was desperate to get back in the league, I would do anything.

If Kaep was a great QB, he would not have lost his job.  He was always mediocre....good enough to be the guy on a bad team, but would never take a job away from those guys who he had better numbers than in his last season.  Unfortunately, mediocre is not good enough to keep.

Seriously, dude? You actually believe what you wrote?

[Pakuni]

Is Pukuni hoopalopping with Da Pontiff? Dont remember pakuni being this argumentative in the past.

Maybe I'm just angling for an invite to the next beer summit. Don't judge.

[tower912]

Seriously, dude? You actually believe what you wrote?

Dudette.

[Pakuni]

NFL reaches financial settlement with Kaepernick and Reid.
Presumably, as with most settlements, no one will admit liability.

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-colin-kaepernick-withdraws-collusion-case-nfl-190149703.html

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Kapernick and Reid settle their collusion case with a confidentiality agreement. Mike Freeman is already hearing that Kaepernick was paid somewhere in the $60M to $80M range.