MUScoop

MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: tower912 on November 14, 2018, 11:02:23 AM

Title: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on November 14, 2018, 11:02:23 AM
So.... Bears, Vikings playing well.   Packers erratic.   Same old Lions.    Patriots lose and suddenly Brady needs to retire?   Chiefs-Rams looks like a helluva game.     
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on November 14, 2018, 11:22:16 AM
Go Panthers!

Time to right the ship at Detroit.

Gotta get our pass rush going again, and I think the Lions might be just the ticket!!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on November 14, 2018, 11:43:49 AM
The last two Lions game have been opportunities to see who can get to the QB the fastest.    Stafford is getting hit as he finishes his drop.   Which is giving him happy feet when he has time.     Terrible OL play.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on November 14, 2018, 12:08:00 PM
So.... Bears, Vikings playing well.   Packers erratic.   Same old Lions.    Patriots lose and suddenly Brady needs to retire?   Chiefs-Rams looks like a helluva game.   

While the doom narratives on the Pats are funny, especially considering they basically have their division wrapped-up, the truth is Brady can't move anymore.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on November 14, 2018, 12:26:57 PM
While the doom narratives on the Pats are funny, especially considering they basically have their division wrapped-up, the truth is Brady can't move anymore.

Regarding Brady.  He is behind the best offensive line in football.  He has lots of weapons.  He is the 16th rated QB in the NFL. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Babybluejeans on November 14, 2018, 12:28:37 PM
Regarding Brady.  He is behind the best offensive line in football.  He has lots of weapons.  He is the 16th rated QB in the NFL.

I still wouldn't bet against him come December and January.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: barfolomew on November 14, 2018, 12:39:14 PM
I still wouldn't bet against him come December and January.

True dat. The Pats always save their serious cheating for the playoffs.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on November 14, 2018, 12:53:41 PM
Regarding Brady.  He is behind the best offensive line in football.  He has lots of weapons.  He is the 16th rated QB in the NFL.

How do you measure the best OL in football?

Not saying you're wrong (or right). Just wondering if this is more than your opinion. I sure as heck haven't seen enough NFL games this season to say: "That line is the best in football" about anybody, although I was impressed with the play of the Pittsburgh OL against the Panthers last week.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on November 14, 2018, 01:41:38 PM
While the doom narratives on the Pats are funny, especially considering they basically have their division wrapped-up, the truth is Brady can't move anymore.
So quit throwing him the ball.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on November 14, 2018, 01:48:29 PM
Regarding Brady.  He is behind the best offensive line in football.  He has lots of weapons.  He is the 16th rated QB in the NFL.

Offensive line definitely not the best. PFF, for example, ranks them 8th. Football Outsiders ranks them 6th. Good, for sure, but not the best.
His best weapons include Gronk, who's missed three full games and portions of others; Edelman, who's missed four full games and portions of others; Michel, who's missed three full games and portions of others.
The Patriots' obit has been written about a dozen times over the past five years. I'll believe they're dead when Brady and Belichick retire.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on November 14, 2018, 01:48:59 PM
So quit throwing him the ball.

Ha. That was the strangest play-call of the year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 14, 2018, 02:03:01 PM
Measuring stick game for the Bears on Sunday. Still insist they're a year away, the bottom quarter of their roster is below average (which sticks out like a sore thumb on special teams). Bears have the worst strength of schedule in the league, but to their credit, they've also pummeled bad teams (sans the Cardinal game). Eye test shows that they're moving in the right direction. With the conference around them being top heavy (Saints/Rams) and then an ok middle, they can potentially make the playoffs this year. A win Sunday night would give them a great chance at 10 wins (with games against the Niners/Giants forthcoming). I think the Vikings are still the best team in the division, and gun to my head, would pick the Vikes on Sunday night in a close one.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on November 14, 2018, 02:09:07 PM
Offensive line definitely not the best. PFF, for example, ranks them 8th. Football Outsiders ranks them 6th. Good, for sure, but not the best.
His best weapons include Gronk, who's missed three full games and portions of others; Edelman, who's missed four full games and portions of others; Michel, who's missed three full games and portions of others.
The Patriots' obit has been written about a dozen times over the past five years. I'll believe they're dead when Brady and Belichick retire.

Not saying they are dead.  Just saying Brady is a shell of his former self right now...can easily change.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: real chili 83 on November 14, 2018, 05:40:12 PM
How the hell did the other NFL get locked???? WTF.

Rant over.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: barfolomew on November 15, 2018, 01:30:12 PM
How the hell did the other NFL get locked???? WTF.

Rant over.

Cmon, this is SCOOP!
You always need to have a next-thread-up mentality!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on November 15, 2018, 02:08:36 PM
Interesting to see how Fortnite and the NFL have collaborated.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrgGnm2XcAEty3p.jpg)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on November 15, 2018, 02:17:24 PM
Interesting to see how Fortnite and the NFL have collaborated.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrgGnm2XcAEty3p.jpg)

I'll start thread V3 in the meantime
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 15, 2018, 06:29:40 PM
How the hell did the other NFL get locked???? WTF.

Rant over.


Due da name Nads wring a bell, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 15, 2018, 08:28:54 PM
Packers are really good at dominating everything but the scoreboard.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 15, 2018, 08:35:28 PM
Peckers kanned Capers and still suck on D. Personnel blows, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 15, 2018, 08:44:33 PM
Remember when the Packers had Aaron Jones and every time he got an opportunity he performed and even non-football fans could see he was the best option in the backfield for the Packers but it somehow took Big Mike McCarthy a year and a half to give him any real touches?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 15, 2018, 09:36:41 PM
3rd and 3 just outside of field goal range up 4. Mac decides to finally run something that isn’t vanilla but takes 10 seconds to develop and, to the surprise of only Mike McCarthy, the Seahawks are bringing pressure. I really just don’t get anything this guy does.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on November 15, 2018, 09:39:58 PM
That wasn't a catch.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 15, 2018, 10:08:03 PM
Mac savin' his TO for the next game, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 15, 2018, 10:09:12 PM
3rd and 3 just outside of field goal range up 4. Mac decides to finally run something that isn’t vanilla but takes 10 seconds to develop and, to the surprise of only Mike McCarthy, the Seahawks are bringing pressure. I really just don’t get anything this guy does.

This is his last year in GB. Thankfully.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 15, 2018, 10:12:33 PM
This is his last year in GB. Thankfully.

One would hope, but I’ve been thinking that since 2015.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on November 15, 2018, 10:17:14 PM
Seahawks had been rolling through in the 4th. Why do they not go for it on 4th and 2 when Seattle is so good at running out the clock. BYE McCarthy

Not to mention not challenging that non-catch. What a joke.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 15, 2018, 10:21:47 PM
Seahawks had been rolling through in the 4th. Why do they not go for it on 4th and 2 when Seattle is so good at running out the clock. BYE McCarthy

With only 1 timeout, going for it was a no-brainer - to everyone but Mac.

Challenging the catch was a no-brained - to everyone but Mac.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: cheebs09 on November 15, 2018, 10:23:19 PM
Can you challenge with only one timeout? I thought there was a rule you couldn’t risk your last timeout in a challenge.

McCarthy was bad, but Rodgers hurt us too. Take the underneath route and gain 5 yards instead of chucking deep or throwing away.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUEng92 on November 15, 2018, 10:25:00 PM
Things confirmed in the last 24 hours. Markus isn't a point guard and McCarthy is not an exceptional coach.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 15, 2018, 10:25:07 PM
I won’t write off the Pack just yet, but that 2-4-1 conference record is no bueno. A loss next Sunday night would pretty much be the death blow to their playoff hopes.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 15, 2018, 10:27:23 PM
I won’t write off the Pack just yet, but that 2-4-1 conference record is no bueno. A loss next Sunday night would pretty much be the death blow to their playoff hopes.

They’re done. This is the worst coached team in football. I think the “lack of talent around Rodgers” thing is completely overblown. There’s plenty of talent. There’s just a scheme that is stuck in 2008.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 15, 2018, 10:37:05 PM
McCarthy clearly isn’t going to survive, question is dump him tomorrow, and with the extra time, get whoever going? Or just wait until Black Monday?

I’d do it now.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on November 15, 2018, 10:51:17 PM
McCarthy clearly isn’t going to survive, question is dump him tomorrow, and with the extra time, get whoever going? Or just wait until Black Monday?

I’d do it now.

Depends on if you think the replacement is on the roster, or is someone you can talk to (i.e. and the college ranks)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 15, 2018, 10:58:04 PM
McCarthy clearly isn’t going to survive, question is dump him tomorrow, and with the extra time, get whoever going? Or just wait until Black Monday?

I’d do it now.

I’d do it now. The Packers won’t. They might not even do it in the offseason.

Question is who do they bring in?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 15, 2018, 11:04:50 PM
Crosby and Zook can go with him too, by the way. But knowing how the Packers operate Zook will replace Mac.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 15, 2018, 11:09:09 PM
Crosby and Zook can go with him too, by the way. But knowing how the Packers operate Zook will replace Mac.

TT is gone.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on November 15, 2018, 11:41:54 PM
Why didn't he challenge that catch?  Rodgers is great, but 2-6 on 3rd down and missed wide open pass at the 35 was big, too.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on November 16, 2018, 07:30:51 AM
How many times has Seattle closed out a game with 3-4 minutes left? Did anyone really believe the Packers were going to get the ball back when they punted? As weak of a decision as you'll see.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: SaveOD238 on November 16, 2018, 07:39:51 AM
I’d do it now. The Packers won’t. They might not even do it in the offseason.

Question is who do they bring in?

I'm going to be checking ESPN all day today to see if Gutes decides to can McCarthy today.  If he doesn't, it's only because McCarthy has earned the respect in 13 years to not have to suffer the ignominy of a mid-season firing.  He's done at the end of the year.

I'd love to see Lincoln Riley as the next coach, but he seems destined for Cleveland (with Baker) or Dallas (with $$).  If not Riley, then I'd try to hire a hot young OC, like Defelippo or Biemieny.

The other option is to bring in a guy that is a proven winner waiting for the right opportunity to come back.  Gambling Rodgers' last good years on a first-time head coach might be too risky.  That's why I think we could see someone like Harbaugh.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on November 16, 2018, 07:56:35 AM
I'm going to be checking ESPN all day today to see if Gutes decides to can McCarthy today.  If he doesn't, it's only because McCarthy has earned the respect in 13 years to not have to suffer the ignominy of a mid-season firing.  He's done at the end of the year.

I'd love to see Lincoln Riley as the next coach, but he seems destined for Cleveland (with Baker) or Dallas (with $$).  If not Riley, then I'd try to hire a hot young OC, like Defelippo or Biemieny.

The other option is to bring in a guy that is a proven winner waiting for the right opportunity to come back.  Gambling Rodgers' last good years on a first-time head coach might be too risky.  That's why I think we could see someone like Harbaugh.


McCarthy reports to Murphy.  It's his call.  And that should worry folks.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: BM1090 on November 16, 2018, 01:44:43 PM
1. I'd fire McCarthy now. Get it over with.

2. I do think this team goes on a run. Finishes 5-1 to end with a 9-6-1 record. Last 5 games are incredibly easy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on November 16, 2018, 02:10:51 PM
1. I'd fire McCarthy now. Get it over with.

2. I do think this team goes on a run. Finishes 5-1 to end with a 9-6-1 record. Last 5 games are incredibly easy.


I wouldn't classify the Bears or Falcons as "incredibly easy."
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: barfolomew on November 16, 2018, 02:54:22 PM
I won’t write off the Pack just yet, but that 2-4-1 conference record is no bueno. A loss next Sunday night would pretty much be the death blow to their playoff hopes.

"Man, we're missing the death blow!"

(https://y.yarn.co/7b04dbb9-36be-48b9-8910-a73976b9b1f8_screenshot.jpg)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 16, 2018, 03:19:16 PM
How many times has Seattle closed out a game with 3-4 minutes left? Did anyone really believe the Packers were going to get the ball back when they punted? As weak of a decision as you'll see.

Of course, it was a cowardly, terrible call by McCarthy. Not only had Seattle shredded the GB defense running the ball all game, but both Daniels and Clark were hurt. I believe that call was the final nail in the coffin.


But, it does no good to fire him before the end of the season if they are interested in any OC around the league. No purpose to hiring an interim coach for 6 games and then making another change in 3 months.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: BM1090 on November 16, 2018, 04:04:57 PM

I wouldn't classify the Bears or Falcons as "incredibly easy."

I didn't mean every game. Just the schedule in general. Bears are okay. Vikings are okay. Falcons are okay. I expect them to win 2 of those 3 games and sweep ARI, NYJ, DET
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 18, 2018, 10:24:24 AM
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25310452/cleveland-browns-want-interview-condoleezza-rice-head-coaching-job

Any more questions why the Browns are the biggest losers in the NFL?

Thank God Cleveland hired Dorsey, so the Packers weren't tempted to do the same.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on November 18, 2018, 11:29:34 AM
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25310452/cleveland-browns-want-interview-condoleezza-rice-head-coaching-job

Any more questions why the Browns are the biggest losers in the NFL?

Thank God Cleveland hired Dorsey, so the Packers weren't tempted to do the same.

It's political correctness and nothing more.  A publicity stunt.  Honestly, the Browns future might now be that bad and one can make an argument they should have 7 wins right now.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on November 18, 2018, 12:26:31 PM
It's political correctness and nothing more.  A publicity stunt.  Honestly, the Browns future might now be that bad and one can make an argument they should have 7 wins right now.


"Political correctness"????

Anyway, the browns have already denied it.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: SaveOD238 on November 18, 2018, 12:47:52 PM
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25310452/cleveland-browns-want-interview-condoleezza-rice-head-coaching-job

Any more questions why the Browns are the biggest losers in the NFL?

Thank God Cleveland hired Dorsey, so the Packers weren't tempted to do the same.

Head coach, no.  She has zero relevant experience.

Front office position?  That I could see.  She's been the leader of a massive government administration, a college president, and head of the bowl selection committee.  She knows sports and how to run a major organization.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on November 18, 2018, 01:01:21 PM

"Political correctness"????

Anyway, the browns have already denied it.

Teams deny stuff all the time, that doesn't mean it.   Yes, political correctness to bring candidates in that have no business being candidates. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on November 18, 2018, 02:29:32 PM
What does Detroit do to opposing kickers? 

Good kickers seem to perform horrendously at Detroit.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 18, 2018, 03:03:26 PM
That is an awful, awful loss for Carolina. Breathes all kinds of life for a bunch of teams in the NFC.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jay Bee on November 18, 2018, 03:43:41 PM
That Cam guy threw an awful ball... pee down the leg, big time.

Skol Vikings! Big Sunday nights 2x in a row.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on November 18, 2018, 03:44:03 PM
That is an awful, awful loss for Carolina. Breathes all kinds of life for a bunch of teams in the NFC.

Washington losing Alex Smith as well. Wouldn't be surprised if the only NFC East team to make it ends up being the division winner.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 18, 2018, 04:21:27 PM
That Cam guy threw an awful ball... pee down the leg, big time.

Skol Vikings! Big Sunday nights 2x in a row.

Poor 82.  His lads lost.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 18, 2018, 05:31:16 PM
Knot fare man, Nads' got da duct tape on and kant defend himself, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on November 18, 2018, 05:47:07 PM
If Condi goes to the Browns, those players will be praying for burpees when they eff up
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on November 18, 2018, 06:43:28 PM
Saints are good. Eagles are not
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 18, 2018, 07:28:51 PM
Tomorrow night should be fun.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 18, 2018, 07:39:29 PM
Interesting first scripted series, lot of sweeps. Clearly trying to keep Vikes off balance on D. See what Nagy does next time.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 18, 2018, 10:25:04 PM
I forgot football season could be fun.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on November 18, 2018, 10:25:24 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/yRmIfQf75MrwA/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on November 18, 2018, 10:35:26 PM
Glad to have the win. Offense got bogged down in the 2nd half after Minnesota made adjustments. Still would like to see Nagy counter adjustments.

Defense is pretty good.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 18, 2018, 10:46:32 PM
A Bears win Thursday afternoon makes next Sunday night’s game a loser leaves town match. It would also all but wrap up a playoff spot (barring injuries).

Bears still need an offseason of learning/maturing, filling in the bottom of the roster. They’ve been remarkably healthy this year thus far, that’s never guaranteed. Defense is very good (won’t say great). Offense still looks great scripted, and shys away too much after. Turnovers tonight were bad.

I don’t see them going deep in January, but would finally enjoy seeing them get to play past week 17.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 18, 2018, 10:54:10 PM
Four bunnies in a row for the Bears. When do they play a real NFL schedule?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 18, 2018, 10:58:55 PM
Four bunnies in a row for the Bears. When do they play a real NFL schedule?

You do realize the Packers have/will play/ed  those same four opponents this season, right?

For the record, Green Bay is 1-1-1 against those “bunnies”. Bears are 4-0.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 18, 2018, 11:03:25 PM
Four bunnies in a row for the Bears. When do they play a real NFL schedule?

Schedule has been easy, no doubt. Still 7-3 isn't bad, especially given the fact that they gave two of those losses away and could have won the other one.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 18, 2018, 11:11:56 PM
Four bunnies in a row for the Bears. When do they play a real NFL schedule?

 :-X :-X :-X
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on November 18, 2018, 11:27:12 PM
Four bunnies in a row for the Bears. When do they play a real NFL schedule?

Not in week 15.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 19, 2018, 12:26:56 AM
You do realize the Packers have/will play/ed  those same four opponents this season, right?

For the record, Green Bay is 1-1-1 against those “bunnies”. Bears are 4-0.

Don’t take me too seriously, Dish.  8-)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on November 19, 2018, 08:15:17 AM
A Bears win Thursday afternoon makes next Sunday night’s game a loser leaves town match. It would also all but wrap up a playoff spot (barring injuries).

Bears still need an offseason of learning/maturing, filling in the bottom of the roster. They’ve been remarkably healthy this year thus far, that’s never guaranteed. Defense is very good (won’t say great). Offense still looks great scripted, and shys away too much after. Turnovers tonight were bad.

I don’t see them going deep in January, but would finally enjoy seeing them get to play past week 17.


I'd be perfectly fine with the Packers losing Sunday night.  I don't need to invest anymore emotional energy in this team.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: buckchuckler on November 19, 2018, 08:16:28 AM
I forgot football season could be fun.

+1
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: LloydsLegs on November 19, 2018, 08:52:44 AM
A Bears win Thursday afternoon makes next Sunday night’s game a loser leaves town match. It would also all but wrap up a playoff spot (barring injuries).

Bears still need an offseason of learning/maturing, filling in the bottom of the roster. They’ve been remarkably healthy this year thus far, that’s never guaranteed. Defense is very good (won’t say great). Offense still looks great scripted, and shys away too much after. Turnovers tonight were bad.

I don’t see them going deep in January, but would finally enjoy seeing them get to play past week 17.

This.  And I see you noted it in another post.  It wasn't just last night-it's been several first drives.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on November 19, 2018, 08:58:14 AM
This.  And I see you noted it in another post.  It wasn't just last night-it's been several first drives.

Been that way since Week 1 against the Packers. It really speaks to the strength of Nagy as a coach and the seasoning Trubisky still needs.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on November 19, 2018, 08:59:00 AM
Teams deny stuff all the time, that doesn't mean it.   Yes, political correctness to bring candidates in that have no business being candidates. 


That's not political correctness.  But whatever...
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: SaveOD238 on November 19, 2018, 09:35:30 AM

I'd be perfectly fine with the Packers losing Sunday night.  I don't need to invest anymore emotional energy in this team.

I thought I would be mad after Thursday night's loss.  I wasn't.  (It helps that my students won a state football title at the same time!) That showed me me how I feel about this season right now.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 19, 2018, 09:49:59 AM
Knock on Nagy has been (and still should be) that he can script really well, but then he seems to float away from it. Some games it hasn’t mattered when they’ve beat up early on teams, but it definitely has come up against the Pack and last night. I think eventually Nagy needs the offseason to figure this out, I think he’s too caught up in being a head coach right now to really self evaluate.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on November 19, 2018, 12:51:44 PM
For someone with more football knowledge than me, like Dish or others...

does it appear that Mitch is making a lot more calls/changes/audibles at the line as compared to previous weeks?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on November 19, 2018, 02:05:02 PM
For someone with more football knowledge than me, like Dish or others...

does it appear that Mitch is making a lot more calls/changes/audibles at the line as compared to previous weeks?

Definitely. I specifically remember thinking during the game that he was working with a lot more freedom and discretion at the line. He didn’t play particularly well, especially given his performance the week before. But it appears that he’s gained some trust and responsibility from Nagy, which is welcomed.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 19, 2018, 10:36:36 PM
4th and 2. 4 minutes left.

Reid wasn’t a coward.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on November 19, 2018, 10:39:42 PM
100 combined points for the Rams win?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 19, 2018, 10:48:06 PM
This is like watching a porno.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on November 19, 2018, 10:50:29 PM
This is like watching a porno.

Defense optional?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on November 19, 2018, 11:01:16 PM
105 points. Plus 7 turnovers.

Can the chiefs, Rams, Patriots, saints just play a round robin group for the super bowl?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 19, 2018, 11:05:00 PM
105 points. Plus 7 turnovers.

Can the chiefs, Rams, Patriots, saints just play a round robin group for the super bowl?

Replace Patriots with Steelers.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on November 19, 2018, 11:05:36 PM
Titans vs Texans next week will definitely entertain similarly
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on November 19, 2018, 11:06:00 PM
Replace Patriots with Steelers.

Typed the exact same thing and then it updated me that there was a new post.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 19, 2018, 11:16:33 PM
The Alboa Bar in Mexico City that ESPN kept showing?

It was actually a Buffalo Wild Wings.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on November 20, 2018, 08:21:40 AM
Just give McVay coach of the year now.

https://twitter.com/FourVerts/status/1064752124729405440?s=19 (https://twitter.com/FourVerts/status/1064752124729405440?s=19)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 20, 2018, 09:51:33 AM
Trent Dilfer doesn’t like fun.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DilfersDimes/status/1064744847578402816?s=19
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on November 20, 2018, 10:05:20 AM
Trent Dilfer doesn’t like fun.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DilfersDimes/status/1064744847578402816?s=19

Very John Smoltz of him. I can see why he thought that was awful football - he's accustomed to being dragged to wins by his defenses.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on November 20, 2018, 10:46:01 AM
Trent Dilfer doesn’t like fun.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DilfersDimes/status/1064744847578402816?s=19

I don't entirely disagree with him.  The over-protection of offensive players, and over allowance of pick routes has contributed to this pass-pass-pass style of offense.  It reminds me of the aspects of college football that I don't like.

Yes, it is exciting to watch high scoring affairs, but it is too close to arena football.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on November 20, 2018, 10:50:13 AM
And no matter how hard they try to make the game safer for offensive players, Alex Smith still happens.   
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 22, 2018, 02:02:09 PM
Wow. The Lions are the poster boys for NFL ineptitude.

Finally get the lead, so the next play is Personal Foul. Couple plays later, another Personal Foul. Almost like watching a Sitcom.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 22, 2018, 02:41:38 PM
The comedy continues.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 22, 2018, 02:56:53 PM
Eddie Jackson probably Pace’s best draft pick, having a stud year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 22, 2018, 04:36:55 PM
Eddie Jackson probably Pace’s best draft pick, having a stud year.

Nowhere near the reputation of Dix coming out of Alabama, but a way better player.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 22, 2018, 06:56:06 PM
A mouth guard flying out onto the field as a receiver gets hit trying to catch the ball over the middle is probably a decent indication that there was a hit to a defenseless receiver/head.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 22, 2018, 09:57:42 PM
Nowhere near the reputation of Dix coming out of Alabama, but a way better player.

Jackson had broken his leg his final year and fell in the draft because of it. Funny though because bones heal, there wasn’t really any long term concern health wise. Could end up as the All Pro safety.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on November 23, 2018, 08:10:56 AM
Wow. The Lions are the poster boys for NFL ineptitude.



Have been for 60 years.  One playoff win in my lifetime.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 23, 2018, 09:39:00 AM
Bears (7-3) win divisional road game on 3.5 days rest behind back up QB. Huge win.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on November 23, 2018, 01:51:52 PM
Bears (7-3) win divisional road game on 3.5 days rest behind back up QB. Huge win.

Everything stacked up against the Bears in that game. Schedule, Trubisky’s health, early bad breaks, but kudos to them for locking down and getting a MONSTER win. Last 5 days are the most impressive of Nagy’s tenure in my opinion
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on November 25, 2018, 01:58:53 PM
Good thing Hue had all that inside info on his old squad  ::)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 25, 2018, 05:36:15 PM
Have been for 60 years.  One playoff win in my lifetime.

I felt bad after I made the post and noticed you were the poster directly above my comment.

I really wasn't trollin' on ya.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on November 25, 2018, 05:39:05 PM
I felt bad after I made the post and noticed you were the poster directly above my comment.

I really wasn't trollin' on ya.
There are no apologies necessary.  Nor any insult of the Lions too great.  One playoff win in the Super Bowl era.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on November 25, 2018, 08:05:33 PM
McCarthy should be fired solely for his misuse of Aaron Jones
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 25, 2018, 08:06:17 PM
McCarthy should be fired solely for his misuse of Aaron Jones

And the fact that a team with Aaron Rodgers playing all 10 games is 4-5-1.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 25, 2018, 08:47:20 PM
Hey look! Big Mac giving his opponent free timeouts!

Maybe the Queens will penalize themselves enough to not take advantage of it.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 25, 2018, 09:28:47 PM
Putting 22 guys right on the line and trying to pick up a yard rarely ever works.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 25, 2018, 09:41:40 PM
Great coaching again.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on November 25, 2018, 09:45:40 PM
Tramon has not aged well.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on November 25, 2018, 09:45:48 PM
McCarthy shouldn't even be allowed to get on the plane back to GB
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 25, 2018, 09:47:40 PM
McCarthy shouldn't even be allowed to get on the plane back to GB

Agreed. This is the worst coached football team I’ve ever seen.

I love that every time the camera pans to him he looks absolutely confused. Just staring blankly at his playsheet.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 25, 2018, 09:49:14 PM
McCarthy shouldn't even be allowed to get on the plane back to GB

Team has quit on him. Probably with good reason.

TT’s brutal drafts don’t help either.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 25, 2018, 10:09:57 PM
Give Ron Zook a raise. Special teams have been nothing short of spectacular for as long as I can remember!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on November 25, 2018, 10:22:05 PM
Give Ron Zook a raise. Special teams have been nothing short of spectacular for as long as I can remember!

That was seriously something special.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 25, 2018, 10:32:30 PM
That’ll do it for the Packers, and it’s a borderline travesty that an Aaron Rodgers team is 4-6-1, with him starting every game, at this point in his career.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on November 25, 2018, 10:48:39 PM
That’ll do it for the Packers, and it’s a borderline travesty that an Aaron Rodgers team is 4-6-1, with him starting every game, at this point in his career.

To be completely fair, he's been off this year too.  Has missed a lot of open receivers (accuracy), and didn't see several open guys (vision). 

Maybe it is partially the lack of talent and coaching, but they were throws he usually makes.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 25, 2018, 10:50:31 PM
That’ll do it for the Packers, and it’s a borderline travesty that an Aaron Rodgers team is 4-6-1, with him starting every game, at this point in his career.

I know I'll get crucified, but isn't some of this on Rodgers? Know he was hurt in game one so maybe that why but he looked extremely immobile tonight and threw some really awful passes. The times I've seen him this year he doesn't look anything like his old self to me.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 25, 2018, 10:55:56 PM
To be completely fair, he's been off this year too.  Has missed a lot of open receivers (accuracy), and didn't see several open guys (vision). 

Maybe it is partially the lack of talent and coaching, but they were throws he usually makes.

No argument here, his inability to convert 2nd & 1 and 3rd & 1 to settle for the FG was on him. My main point was it seems awful as a football fan to waste a year of Rodgers prime like this, but some of it is on him, you’re right.

The playoff race and the playoffs are way more exciting with him and the Packers relevant. I didn’t think the Pack should have kicked onside, they still had a timeout and the two minute warning. Kicking it deep there makes a pass for a first down a far riskier decision for Zimmer than doing it at the Pack 40.

If you’d have told me at the start of the year that after 11 weeks, the Packers and Browns would have the same record, I’d have guessed Cleveland was really good this year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on November 26, 2018, 08:32:01 AM
Yes part of this is on Rodgers.  And that right now he only has one "plus" weapon in Adams.

But the lack of imagination in this offense is stunning to me.  Everything is either a short pass to the flat or a fly pattern.  There is no motion prior to the snap.  No attempt at misdirection.  McCarthy's "new" offense this year is an absolute flop.  I mean this team wasn't going to win the Super Bowl regardless, but 4-6-1??? 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on November 26, 2018, 09:21:42 AM
Not excuse making for Rodgers but one of the most inexplicable things McCarthy did was not resign Alex Van Pelt who Rodgers absolutely trusted. I think Rodgers is off this season, no doubt, but a lot of that is I don't think he trusts the people in the room and is going with his guts and "his way" which means doubling down on making a big play to the exclusion of the easy check down/manage the game type of play.

The 4th and 1 call last night was McCarthy in a nut shell....

1a. Panic's about the call, delaying getting it in, which "forces" Green Bay to waste a precious 2nd half TO.
1b. Amongst the panic, he forgets that the can ask for a measurement to buy time to call a play/make a decision
2. Decides to go for it(which I completely support), but then chooses about the dumbest play call you can imagine in that scenario. By formation, he choose to run up the middle against a 10 man box. By play design he was guaranteeing that the Vikings would have one more tackler than Green Bay could block

I don't know that McCarthy is dumb, I just don't think he's evolved with the game.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 26, 2018, 09:28:31 AM
I don't know that McCarthy is dumb, I just don't think he's evolved with the game.

Yup.  I texted friends this.  He's been stuck in 2010 NFL since...well, 2010.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on November 26, 2018, 09:47:48 AM
Not excuse making for Rodgers but one of the most inexplicable things McCarthy did was not resign Alex Van Pelt who Rodgers absolutely trusted.


Not to mention Tom Clements the year before. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUEng92 on November 26, 2018, 12:14:13 PM
I'm all in on McCarthy needed to leave after this year.  However, I was annoyed and somewhat surprised (probably naively) to hear Rodgers on the radio this morning talking about "missed assignments that make him have to throw balls away".  It's weird when he has to "throw balls away" by throwing it directly over or in front of wide open receivers.  I'm not suggesting there aren't screw ups by the receivers, but the missed assignment talk held more water back when he didn't inexplicably miss wide open receivers.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RushmoreAcademy on November 26, 2018, 01:00:05 PM
As a Bears fan, I’m thrilled at what looks like the first playoff appearance in 8 years. (Knock wood.)
I don’t entertain and fantasies about beating LA or NO, but I’m excited nonetheless.
Right now we don’t have many glaring holes short of our kicking game.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: barfolomew on November 26, 2018, 03:29:47 PM
As a Bears fan, I’m thrilled at what looks like the first playoff appearance in 8 years. (Knock wood.)
I don’t entertain and fantasies about beating LA or NO, but I’m excited nonetheless.
Right now we don’t have many glaring holes short of our kicking game.

Special teams in general and depth are both issues (and are linked).
But I agree with you. Exciting to have a good shot at a postseason game at Soldier Field -- not where I thought they'd be at this point in the year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 26, 2018, 03:50:36 PM
Sew, dis is knot all Danica's fault fore porkin' Rogers, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RushmoreAcademy on November 26, 2018, 04:32:53 PM
Special teams in general and depth are both issues (and are linked).
But I agree with you. Exciting to have a good shot at a postseason game at Soldier Field -- not where I thought they'd be at this point in the year.

Reports today are the Mitch may sit again vs NYG.  Got away with it last week but I’d feel left confident this time around as the Giants prepare for him. Every week until we get there is going to be nerve wrenching.  The feeling only fans of historically poor teams can really fully understand.  Felt it uontil a few years ago with the Cubs, and Crew fans felt it this year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jay Bee on November 26, 2018, 04:55:58 PM
Skol Vikings! We are the best. I was at the game and well behaved. Sounds like the Rhodes injury is minor, whew.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on November 27, 2018, 09:58:10 AM
Apparently McCarthy puts the team up in less desirable hotels when they cannot win road games. Several former players offered comments confirming it. Some just thought places like Jacksonville don't have any hotels better than Motel 6.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 29, 2018, 10:18:22 PM
That game won’t go on the Sean Payton highlight reel, very poorly coached game.

This now very much cracks open the door for the Bears to get to the 2 seed.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on November 30, 2018, 12:04:22 AM
That game won’t go on the Sean Payton highlight reel, very poorly coached game.

This now very much cracks open the door for the Bears to get to the 2 seed.

I enjoyed it thoroughly here in Dallas.  Still think Saints are team to beat if they keep home field advantage.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: #UnleashSean on November 30, 2018, 12:23:35 AM
Apparently McCarthy puts the team up in less desirable hotels when they cannot win road games. Several former players offered comments confirming it. Some just thought places like Jacksonville don't have any hotels better than Motel 6.

Taking a page out of wojo.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on November 30, 2018, 08:19:25 AM
So, were we collectively wrong about the Amari Cooper trade?  He looks to have opened up the Cowboys' offense and the value of the pick traded to Oakland keeps decreasing.  With a defense that is pretty decent, they could give the Saints or Rams a good run in the divisional playoffs too.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 30, 2018, 08:53:08 AM
So, were we collectively wrong about the Amari Cooper trade?  He looks to have opened up the Cowboys' offense and the value of the pick traded to Oakland keeps decreasing.  With a defense that is pretty decent, they could give the Saints or Rams a good run in the divisional playoffs too.

I liked (but didn't love) the trade for Dallas.  I've always loved Amari.  Wish the Packers would've gone out and got him.

But I don't think the Cowboys make a lot of noise in the Playoffs anyways.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 30, 2018, 09:52:47 AM
So, were we collectively wrong about the Amari Cooper trade?  He looks to have opened up the Cowboys' offense and the value of the pick traded to Oakland keeps decreasing.  With a defense that is pretty decent, they could give the Saints or Rams a good run in the divisional playoffs too.

No, because only Dallas was willing to offer a first round pick, when the rest of the market dictated otherwise. One can argue that Dallas was willing to overpay because they saw some additional value in Cooper that other teams didn't see, but knowing Jerry Jones history, I would doubt that's the case.

Cooper has no doubt helped the Cowboy offense, but I still firmly believe they could have gotten him for less than a first round pick.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on November 30, 2018, 10:00:55 AM
No, because only Dallas was willing to offer a first round pick, when the rest of the market dictated otherwise. One can argue that Dallas was willing to overpay because they saw some additional value in Cooper that other teams didn't see, but knowing Jerry Jones history, I would doubt that's the case.

Cooper has no doubt helped the Cowboy offense, but I still firmly believe they could have gotten him for less than a first round pick.


OK that makes some sense to me.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU B2002 on November 30, 2018, 10:15:45 AM
No, because only Dallas was willing to offer a first round pick, when the rest of the market dictated otherwise. One can argue that Dallas was willing to overpay because they saw some additional value in Cooper that other teams didn't see, but knowing Jerry Jones history, I would doubt that's the case.

Cooper has no doubt helped the Cowboy offense, but I still firmly believe they could have gotten him for less than a first round pick.

It's going to be great when Jurrah cripples the team with huge new contracts for Dak and Amari.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 30, 2018, 10:57:09 AM
I don’t have stats to back this up, but what really impressed me about the Cowboys last night was their tackling. Eye test seemed like they rarely missed tackles, it was really impressive.

One big concern I have with the Bears defense is at times they miss a bunch of tackles, it almost seems to come infectious at times for the Bears D.

Kudos to the Cowboys, I for sure didn’t see this kind of play from them coming, they’re playing really well.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on November 30, 2018, 01:34:28 PM
How bout them Brownies?  They are going to be fun to watch for some time.  Finally.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on November 30, 2018, 01:47:22 PM
Lots of very alarming things in here:

How It All Went Wrong in Packerland (https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/29/green-bay-packers-problems-aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-ted-thompson)

Neither Rodgers or McCarthy come out looking good. Someone has to go, and it can't be Rodgers.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on November 30, 2018, 02:34:39 PM
Yikes, the Chiefs have quite the theme going on in their backfield.

http://www.tmz.com/2018/11/30/kc-chiefs-kareem-hunt-attacked-kicked-woman-surveillance-video/
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on November 30, 2018, 03:22:53 PM
Yikes, the Chiefs have quite the theme going on in their backfield.

http://www.tmz.com/2018/11/30/kc-chiefs-kareem-hunt-attacked-kicked-woman-surveillance-video/

The headline is a lot worse than the video.

Apparently the video/incident is from February? Does this play out like Ray rice?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on November 30, 2018, 03:28:23 PM
Yikes, the Chiefs have quite the theme going on in their backfield.

http://www.tmz.com/2018/11/30/kc-chiefs-kareem-hunt-attacked-kicked-woman-surveillance-video/

Didn't stop them from drafting Tyreek Hill
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on November 30, 2018, 07:48:20 PM
Hunt on the exempt list

 ::)
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1068680817747087361?s=19
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on November 30, 2018, 07:59:49 PM
Chiefs released Hunt
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on November 30, 2018, 08:03:36 PM
Chiefs released Hunt

Skins will pick him up tomorrow.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on November 30, 2018, 08:05:39 PM
I guess we should be thanking TMZ for this?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on November 30, 2018, 08:08:12 PM
Sounds like this was known about in February. Nothing was done until TMZ releases the video and he’s cut hours later. Incredible.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on November 30, 2018, 08:10:32 PM
Sounds like this was known about in February. Nothing was done until TMZ releases the video and he’s cut hours later. Incredible.

Pretty similar to Ray rice. And again, TMZ. Total BS when NFL says they can't get the tape
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on November 30, 2018, 08:24:08 PM
As usual, NFL has some explaining to do. I have little faith in them.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on November 30, 2018, 08:28:27 PM
No, because only Dallas was willing to offer a first round pick, when the rest of the market dictated otherwise. One can argue that Dallas was willing to overpay because they saw some additional value in Cooper that other teams didn't see, but knowing Jerry Jones history, I would doubt that's the case.

Cooper has no doubt helped the Cowboy offense, but I still firmly believe they could have gotten him for less than a first round pick.

Here's what we have been told (we have a major sponsorship with the Boys and Dak specifically).  The team wanted to know if they should commit to Dak or not, and with the receivers they had it was tough for them to make that determination. They were willing to overpay (which they did) for Cooper to get that ability on the field to help them determine what they have in Dak.  Nice kid, has a good character story to tell....holds the ball too long in my opinion, but that is fixable..

It was a blast at the game last night, as loud as I've heard the place since the Packers - Cowboys playoff game a few years ago.  Sad to say probably the biggest win by the team in a few years.  Likely top 5 win for this team in the last 15 years....it's not been good to be a Cowboys fan for a long time.   Agree with Wades that this team is not going far in the playoffs, but the defense is pretty good so you never know.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on November 30, 2018, 09:13:09 PM
Sounds like this was known about in February. Nothing was done until TMZ releases the video and he’s cut hours later. Incredible.

KC turned the matter over to the league. In the meantime they talked to Hunt who denied it. Once the tape came out, they knew he lied to their faces and cut him immediately.


Maybe he knows how to play baseball. Cubs might be interested.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: naginiF on November 30, 2018, 10:02:01 PM
KC turned the matter over to the league. In the meantime they talked to Hunt who denied it. Once the tape came out, they knew he lied to their faces and cut him immediately.
As a KC resident I hope this is the case as it provides at least some sense of moral compasss.  The NFL is basically a reflection of many aspects of America today - if you are good at your job and make a lot of money for your employer you get a pass.  See: Kobe Bryant, Ben Roethlsburger, Steve King, etc., etc.
Maybe he knows how to play baseball. Cubs might be interested.
cue Blue Man Group to bring down 110yrs of Cub fandom upon you!!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on December 01, 2018, 11:06:36 AM
Pretty similar to Ray rice. And again, TMZ. Total BS when NFL says they can't get the tape

But Ray Rice was stomach churning flat out assault. This is a drunken altercation where the female is the aggressor and charges would likely not follow if it was non-athletes. I never condone violence against women but she has an awfully hard time claiming the defenseless victim role. Especially cause she pretty clearly dropped a slur to get the party started.

Chiefs did right thing, but I can see it being a dilemma internally. The lying by Hunt is the bigger issue.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 01, 2018, 11:25:43 AM
I’m not saying I support it, but I can envision the Bears signing Hunt, if he is still unsigned come March.

Ultimately I think he’ll get a second chance, teams will view him as cheap/impactful talent, he will need to show reconciliation. I think a team like the Eagles, Bears, a team that’s contending, in a big enough media market with other distractions around will be where he ends up.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on December 01, 2018, 11:33:31 AM
But Ray Rice was stomach churning flat out assault. This is a drunken altercation where the female is the aggressor and charges would likely not follow if it was non-athletes. I never condone violence against women but she has an awfully hard time claiming the defenseless victim role. Especially cause she pretty clearly dropped a slur to get the party started.

Chiefs did right thing, but I can see it being a dilemma internally. The lying by Hunt is the bigger issue.

He not only attacked the woman, but when she was knocked to the ground, started kicking a helpless individual.

Most definitely there would have been charges for anyone, it is more likely that charges were not filed, because he is famous.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on December 01, 2018, 12:15:48 PM
I’m not saying I support it, but I can envision the Bears signing Hunt, if he is still unsigned come March.

Ultimately I think he’ll get a second chance, teams will view him as cheap/impactful talent, he will need to show reconciliation. I think a team like the Eagles, Bears, a team that’s contending, in a big enough media market with other distractions around will be where he ends up.

After being burnt by Ray McDonald, I don't see it for the Bears. But, I agree, he will get another shot somewhere else.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 02, 2018, 12:11:09 PM
Good play call Big Mac!  3rd and 10 at midfield and a nice run.  Just send the punt team out there on 3rd down if you're going to do that.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on December 02, 2018, 12:21:40 PM
Good play call Big Mac!  3rd and 10 at midfield and a nice run.  Just send the punt team out there on 3rd down if you're going to do that.

And more brilliant play from special teams.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 02, 2018, 12:41:24 PM
This game is boring.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUEng92 on December 02, 2018, 12:46:47 PM
I just don't understand why no one wants to buy our Packer game tickets anymore.  Top notch entertainment in sleet?  C'mon what else could you ask for?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 02, 2018, 01:40:19 PM
That was really really really brutal time management by Nagy. I’ve mentioned this before, he needs desperately to be self scouted this offseason when it comes to that.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 02, 2018, 01:53:49 PM
I just don't understand why no one wants to buy our Packer game tickets anymore.  Top notch entertainment in sleet?  C'mon what else could you ask for?

Once offenses from the 1990’s come back in style, there will be a big demand.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 02, 2018, 02:18:25 PM
Mac needs to go - today!

The team has already quit on him. Why prolong it any longer?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 02, 2018, 02:21:46 PM
At the least, make it look like you’re trying to tackle someone.

Hopefully, they lose out and get a top draft pick.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 02, 2018, 02:51:36 PM
Bears absolutely deserved the L today, every unit poor, terribly coached as well.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on December 02, 2018, 03:14:15 PM
What a joke, rock bottom.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 02, 2018, 03:15:36 PM
Hahahahahaha. Throw basically a Hail Mary with 9 seconds left rather than try to get an extra 5-10 yards for Crosby and then of course Crosby misses the 49 yard field goal to tie the game. Incredible.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 02, 2018, 03:16:06 PM
What a joke

Can’t get any more embarrassing than this.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 02, 2018, 03:17:45 PM
Holy $hit
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on December 02, 2018, 03:18:20 PM
Holy $hit
ballsy play call, well done
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 02, 2018, 03:26:28 PM
Panthers in the midst of collapse
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 02, 2018, 03:27:30 PM
What a joke, rock bottom.

My Cardinals!!!!  Winners.  And we are bad, bad, bad.  Never would have thought.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 02, 2018, 03:30:58 PM
My Cardinals!!!!  Winners.  And we are bad, bad, bad.  Never would have thought.

Lol.

We dem boiz!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 02, 2018, 03:32:11 PM
Lol.

We dem boiz!

No, as I said here a few months ago, raised on the Cardinals as it goes back to Chicago Cardinals in my family. 


Edit:   https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56224.msg1045446#msg1045446

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 🏀 on December 02, 2018, 03:50:21 PM
No, as I said here a few months ago, raised on the Cardinals as it goes back to Chicago Cardinals in my family. 


Edit:   https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56224.msg1045446#msg1045446



There's no one from Chicago that actually follows this tale, except for those fakers. Especially a Cubs fan and a Chicago Cardinals fan, that does not equate.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 02, 2018, 03:59:12 PM
No, as I said here a few months ago, raised on the Cardinals as it goes back to Chicago Cardinals in my family. 


I know a ton of people from Chicago.  I don't know a single soul who roots for the Cardinals because they used to play there 60 years and two cities ago.

Did you root for them when they were located in Racine too?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 02, 2018, 04:06:55 PM
There's no one from Chicago that actually follows this tale, except for those fakers. Especially a Cubs fan and a Chicago Cardinals fan, that does not equate.

Yes, there are Cardinals fans still in Chicago, whether you believe it or not.  Dated article, and the numbers are small, but not gone.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2009-01-27-0901260675-story.html

There are pockets of Packer fans here that their fathers and grandfathers taught to cheer for because they blamed Halas for orchestrating the Cardinals departure.

When the Cards come to Chicago there are still parties for fans of the team that the fan club will put on.  We have attended several of them over the years, small gatherings.  There are a few fan pages and social media destinations with information if you are interested in attending.


Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 02, 2018, 04:11:34 PM

I know a ton of people from Chicago.  I don't know a single soul who roots for the Cardinals because they used to play there 60 years and two cities ago.

Did you root for them when they were located in Racine too?

I don't know a single person that voted for the current POTUS, therefore he didn't win.   ;)    I linked an article a second ago that showed there are plenty of us, at least last time we were in the big game, but we didn't all die in the last 8 years or move out of the city (though moving has become contagious).

In some families, following teams is passed on from generation to generation.  From fathers to sons. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 02, 2018, 04:12:24 PM
I don't know a single person that voted for the current POTUS,


You're lying again.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 02, 2018, 04:59:42 PM
The WORST offense in the NFL just had 7 plays longer than GB's longest play.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 🏀 on December 02, 2018, 05:22:02 PM
Yes, there are Cardinals fans still in Chicago, whether you believe it or not.  Dated article, and the numbers are small, but not gone.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2009-01-27-0901260675-story.html

There are pockets of Packer fans here that their fathers and grandfathers taught to cheer for because they blamed Halas for orchestrating the Cardinals departure.

When the Cards come to Chicago there are still parties for fans of the team that the fan club will put on.  We have attended several of them over the years, small gatherings.  There are a few fan pages and social media destinations with information if you are interested in attending.




Except a Cubs and Cardinals fan wouldn't cross a Venn Diagram
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 02, 2018, 05:48:16 PM
What's a chicos?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 02, 2018, 06:02:11 PM
Well McCarthy is out per the Packers. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 02, 2018, 06:06:14 PM
4 years late. But maybe there will be time to win one more title with Rodgers.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on December 02, 2018, 06:10:43 PM
4 years late. But maybe there will be time to win one more title with Rodgers.

About damn time.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 02, 2018, 06:17:08 PM
There was obviously no way McCarthy could coach next week after today. I always think it’s better to do it now than wait until Black Monday.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 02, 2018, 06:20:54 PM
There was obviously no way McCarthy could coach next week after today. I always think it’s better to do it now than wait until Black Monday.


Agreed. 

Wonder if Bruce Arians would be interested?  Got a lot out of Carlson Palmer toward the end of his career.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on December 02, 2018, 06:24:27 PM
What Packers retread are we going to hire? This is not a franchise known to think innovatively. Thank god Jon Gruden is off the market
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 02, 2018, 06:32:43 PM

Agreed. 

Wonder if Bruce Arians would be interested?  Got a lot out of Carlson Palmer toward the end of his career.

Arians is first guy I thought of. I think Josh McDaniels would be a terrible fit there.

No matter what other jobs open, the Packers job will be the most coveted. No owner, clear management structure. Although the coach won’t get roster control, that shouldn’t prevent a really good list of people itching to get that gig.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 02, 2018, 06:35:54 PM
I'm not sure how clean the management structure is.  Will Murphy have this guy reporting to Gutekunst or are they going to still have him report to himself?  I'm hoping that was a one year deal just because of the personalities involved.

The good thing is that we will also no longer have a coach married to the ex-wife of a Packer's board member.  My understanding is that was causing some issues too.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 02, 2018, 06:36:42 PM
Also, meant to add, if Rodgers has been playing on a bum knee, or he’s going to need it cleaned out right after the season, might consider shutting him down. If he’s totally fine, that’s different, but at this point, make sure he’s not going to do anything to really hurt himself, in what’s now a season fighting for a top 10 pick.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 02, 2018, 06:50:50 PM
 It's extremely rare for a 13th-year head coach to get pink slipped mid-season, but the Packers truly had no choice after Sunday's bury-your-head-in-shame embarrassing loss to the Cardinals. Perhaps McCarthy's negative impact on Aaron Rodgers and company has been overstated in the past, but there was no debate in 2018. McCarthy's scheme looked expired-milk stale as Rodgers struggled to get on the same page with his young receivers. McCarthy took months longer than any other football observer in America to realize Aaron Jones was better than Jamaal Williams. Perhaps most damagingly, he and Rodgers could scarcely conceal their animus for each other. The king of coaching not to lose despite having the most dangerous player in football, McCarthy has been laying the groundwork for this inevitable moment for years.


Per RotoWorld.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 02, 2018, 06:51:49 PM
  darrell bevell anyone?  just a thought
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 02, 2018, 06:52:57 PM

No matter what other jobs open, the Packers job will be the most coveted. No owner, clear management structure. Although the coach won’t get roster control, that shouldn’t prevent a really good list of people itching to get that gig.

I read somewhere last week (think it was on ESPN) where GB's opening was only rated as 5th best for next year among expected openings.

Basically because of the management structure. Hopefully, the head coach will be moved under the GM now.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 02, 2018, 06:55:08 PM
Mac needs to go - today!

The team has already quit on him. Why prolong it any longer?

Proof that Murphy's first duty after a game is to read Scoop.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 02, 2018, 07:14:01 PM
He gone. Ring up T-Cube's bil, Jim, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on December 02, 2018, 07:47:04 PM
  darrell bevell anyone?  just a thought

Please hold this thought for the remainder of Badger Hate Week
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 02, 2018, 07:54:17 PM
Mac ta CLE, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 02, 2018, 08:03:59 PM
Mac ta CLE, hey?

Yup. Enjoy being an in the pocket, outside the hashes passer Baker!

I forget what the exact numbers were but I saw some tweet after last week’s game that there were only 2 teams throwing under 50% of their passes between the hashes. The other team (can’t remember who it was) was at like 44% and then the Packers were at like 26%.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: dgies9156 on December 02, 2018, 09:07:39 PM
How about Joe Lombardi?

Go back to the well that gotcha here?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 02, 2018, 09:48:31 PM
4 years late. But maybe there will be time to win one more title with Rodgers.

Players getting coaches fired happens in the NBA all the time. Happened with Magic, happened with Shaq and, as you like pointing out, happened more than once with LeBron. Nice to see Aaron join 'em on the list! Of course, things move much more slowly in the NFL.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 02, 2018, 10:10:27 PM
Except a Cubs and Cardinals fan wouldn't cross a Venn Diagram

Cubs baseball and Cardinals football?  Why not?  North side, south side?   Same argument for Jets / Mets, Yankees / Giants but there are Giants fans that are Mets fans, and Jets fans that are Yankees fans.

The world isn't black and white.  There are Marquette fans that hate Wisconsin sports in everything.  Mr. Sultan appears to be a Wisconsin football fan, and there are MU fans that love ND football. 

For the same reason some guy from Akron his whole life is a Yankees fan, not the Indians.  Is also a Cowboys fan, not the Browns.  He currently plays for the Lakers after recent stints with the Cavaliers and Heat.  We all have reasons we cheer for various teams.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 02, 2018, 10:15:47 PM
4 years late. But maybe there will be time to win one more title with Rodgers.

Not with that roster and all that money tied to Mr. Rodgers.  Tom Brady is the 16th highest paid QB, gives them flexibility. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 02, 2018, 10:41:11 PM
Amazing win for the Chargers over the Steelers, who led big and blew it.

I have never seen any game -- NFL, USFL, WFL, CFL, AFL, arena league, college, prep, pee-wee, powder-puff, any of 'em -- end with 3 straight offside calls.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 03, 2018, 06:36:49 AM
Cubs baseball and Cardinals football?  Why not?  North side, south side?   Same argument for Jets / Mets, Yankees / Giants but there are Giants fans that are Mets fans, and Jets fans that are Yankees fans.

The world isn't black and white.  There are Marquette fans that hate Wisconsin sports in everything.  Mr. Sultan appears to be a Wisconsin football fan, and there are MU fans that love ND football. 

For the same reason some guy from Akron his whole life is a Yankees fan, not the Indians.  Is also a Cowboys fan, not the Browns.  He currently plays for the Lakers after recent stints with the Cavaliers and Heat.  We all have reasons we cheer for various teams.

You forgot the SoCal LA Angels fan who likes the Cowboys...and Cubs and AZ Cardinals.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 03, 2018, 09:36:40 AM
My Panthers are toast for 2018. Sad, because I still think they're a pretty talented team.

I was encouraged by one thing after yesterday's desultory loss at Tampa: Cam Newton's maturity, deportment and accountability.

He had career-best accuracy this season (70% completions and only 7 INTs coming in) but he threw 4 INTs, including 2 when he was hit just as he released the football. He took full responsibility for the loss -- as he should have.

I take this one personal, running off the field in embarrassment really knowing that you’re leaving because of your mishaps. ... They played very opportunistic with my inaccuracy today. ... It hurt us. It hurt us bad.

The offensive line played poorly and Newton was asked about being under pressure most of the game.

To a degree. But they (meaning the OL) gave me opportunities. The receivers played great. You can’t just keep throwing the ball up for grabs. ...

When I look back at this game, it really comes down to protecting the football. Taking this one on the chin, it hurts, but you’ve got to keep moving forward. We just have to find ways to get back in the win column.


Now, I shouldn't have to pat a guy on the back for doing his job as the QB, face of the franchise and team leader. But given his image as an immature, me-first sulker -- in other words, a narrative from several years back -- I thought I'd throw it out here. Guys who want to mature do mature.

Still high on Cam, and looking for better things from my lads in 2019.

One of the great things about being a sports fan is we can move on to other teams in other seasons. Go Marquette!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on December 03, 2018, 09:51:42 AM
Not with that roster and all that money tied to Mr. Rodgers.  Tom Brady is the 16th highest paid QB, gives them flexibility.

Rodgers contract will increase in flexibility as A) the cap continues to grow B) the quarterbacks around him generate larger contracts (there are a bunch of starting QBs on rookie contracts that will come due in the next couple of years - Wentz, Goff, Dak, Trubisky, Watson). Additionally, while it sucks the Packers are going to get a lot younger over the next couple of years so if they draft well their roster will be made of a lot of rookie contracts during the remainder of the Rodgers era.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 03, 2018, 10:10:22 AM
Amazing win for the Chargers over the Steelers, who led big and blew it.

I have never seen any game -- NFL, USFL, WFL, CFL, AFL, arena league, college, prep, pee-wee, powder-puff, any of 'em -- end with 3 straight offside calls.

Actually, I think it is an excellent strategy for a game-ending short FG. Odds are huge that you will lose the game anyway, so try to time the snap perfectly to get a block.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 03, 2018, 10:12:33 AM
Actually, I think it is an excellent strategy for a game-ending short FG. Odds are huge that you will lose the game anyway, so try to time the snap perfectly to get a block.

I didn't say it was bad strategy, brand. Indeed, I would have tried anything and everything to keep that kick from going through.

I simply said I had never before seen a game end on three offside penalties, which made it a bizarre spectacle.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: SaveOD238 on December 03, 2018, 11:01:31 AM
Yes, there are Cardinals fans still in Chicago, whether you believe it or not.  Dated article, and the numbers are small, but not gone.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2009-01-27-0901260675-story.html

There are pockets of Packer fans here that their fathers and grandfathers taught to cheer for because they blamed Halas for orchestrating the Cardinals departure.

When the Cards come to Chicago there are still parties for fans of the team that the fan club will put on.  We have attended several of them over the years, small gatherings.  There are a few fan pages and social media destinations with information if you are interested in attending.

My wife's grandfather, who passed in April, remained a (football) Cardinal fan despite living in Chicago for his whole life.  The sons and grandsons flew him to AZ for a game a few years back, and the joke yesterday was that Grandpa was happy because the Cardinals won and the Bears lost.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 03, 2018, 11:46:33 AM
Actually, I think it is an excellent strategy for a game-ending short FG. Odds are huge that you will lose the game anyway, so try to time the snap perfectly to get a block.

100% agree, at that yardage, who cares if they keep getting 5 yards closer, try to keep timing the snap. Thought it was brilliant.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on December 03, 2018, 11:59:03 AM
100% agree, at that yardage, who cares if they keep getting 5 yards closer, try to keep timing the snap. Thought it was brilliant.

I don't know .... what are the odds of perfectly timing the snap AND getting a block. versus getting lucky and having the kicker miss? Remember, if you jump outside offside and he misses, you give him another shot, effing yourself in the process (see: last night's game). Also, I suspect flag-happy NFL officials aren't going to be super accurate on whether the running start was perfectly timed. If they see what looks like a lot of forward movement before the snap, they're throwing a flag.
The conversion rate on XPs this year is 95 percent, fwiw.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 03, 2018, 12:17:52 PM
I don't know .... what are the odds of perfectly timing the snap AND getting a block. versus getting lucky and having the kicker miss? Remember, if you jump outside and he misses, you give him another shot, effing yourself in the process (see: last night's game). Also, I suspect flag-happy NFL officials aren't going to be super accurate on whether the running start was accurately timed. If they see what looks like a lot of forward movement before the snap, they're throwing a flag.
The conversion rate on XPs this year is 95 percent, fwiw.

I thought that first kick was good. I know it’s not reviewable, but I thought it sailed in just before going over.

I liked that the Steelers were committed to it and kept trying. You can still try to time the snap and have the kicker miss. You also mess with the kicker, snapper, holder knowing an all out attack is coming. I liked it.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 03, 2018, 01:29:29 PM
I didn't say it was bad strategy, brand. Indeed, I would have tried anything and everything to keep that kick from going through.

I simply said I had never before seen a game end on three offside penalties, which made it a bizarre spectacle.

I didn't mean it as an argument to your point of never seeing it before. I don't think any of us have.

I think we agree on both points.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on December 03, 2018, 01:35:13 PM
Am I crazy to think it would be a great idea for the Packers to retain Mike Pettine as DC, hire Kliff Kingsburry as OC, and then find a "team manager" HC who handles the in-game decision making(but not play calling), game prep, etc and coaches the Special Teams?

I think it's much harder to find an HC who can run the offense along with everything else than to find a talent OC and a talent HC.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 03, 2018, 01:56:02 PM
Am I crazy to think it would be a great idea for the Packers to retain Mike Pettine as DC, hire Kliff Kingsburry as OC, and then find a "team manager" HC who handles the in-game decision making(but not play calling), game prep, etc and coaches the Special Teams?

I think it's much harder to find an HC who can run the offense along with everything else than to find a talent OC and a talent HC.

Yes, that would never work. You might as well just name Rodgers player/coach. That proposed power structure would never work in the NFL.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on December 03, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Yes, that would never work. You might as well just name Rodgers player/coach. That proposed power structure would never work in the NFL.

Wait, are you saying every HC in the NFL calls offensive plays?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on December 03, 2018, 02:08:24 PM
So Mark Murphy will make the next hire. Has a Packers team president ever been this involved in the football operation before?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 03, 2018, 02:10:15 PM
Wait, are you saying every HC in the NFL calls offensive plays?

No, I'm saying that power structure you proposed would be crazy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on December 03, 2018, 02:10:50 PM
So Mark Murphy will make the next hire. Has a Packers team president ever been this involved in the football operation before?

Nope, the Packers essentially have a team owner for the first time ever. After Lombardi, all football roles reported to the GM with the GM reporting to the board and Team president. Once TT was ousted (2 years too late IMO) the board reworked the structure in conjunction with Murphy to make all major football roles (GM, HC, and director of football operations) report to the president.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on December 03, 2018, 02:12:00 PM
No, I'm saying that power structure you proposed would be crazy.

Why? Take the names out of it, how is an OC that runs the offense, DC that runs the defense and an HC that manages all of it + in-game decisions a unique power structure in the NFL?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on December 03, 2018, 02:13:40 PM
So Mark Murphy will make the next hire. Has a Packers team president ever been this involved in the football operation before?
I'm not crazy about this.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on December 03, 2018, 02:20:34 PM
Am I crazy to think it would be a great idea for the Packers to retain Mike Pettine as DC, hire Kliff Kingsburry as OC, and then find a "team manager" HC who handles the in-game decision making(but not play calling), game prep, etc and coaches the Special Teams?

I think it's much harder to find an HC who can run the offense along with everything else than to find a talent OC and a talent HC.

I think the problem with this is hiring a head coach and then 1) telling him who his coordinators are going to be and 2) giving him no say over the offensive and defensive play calling.
No coach worth having is going to want the job under that structure.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on December 03, 2018, 02:34:54 PM
I think the problem with this is hiring a head coach and then 1) telling him who his coordinators are going to be and 2) giving him no say over the offensive and defensive play calling.
No coach worth having is going to want the job under that structure.

Yeah probably put things out of order, I absolutely want to keep Pettine, but I'm fine with the HC hiring the OC as long as it's a progressive offense. Kliff Kingsbury is an example but not necessarily required.

What I would like to avoid is an HC/OC having to learn how to call plays on the job (ala Nagy with the Bears this year).
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on December 03, 2018, 02:37:22 PM
Am I crazy to think it would be a great idea for the Packers to retain Mike Pettine as DC, hire Kliff Kingsburry as OC, and then find a "team manager" HC who handles the in-game decision making(but not play calling), game prep, etc and coaches the Special Teams?

I think it's much harder to find an HC who can run the offense along with everything else than to find a talent OC and a talent HC.

I don't think its crazy to have a HC like that. That's basically John Harbaugh in Baltimore and he's been a successful coach. However, I think the HC has to hire his own coordinators and determine the style/direction of those units.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 03, 2018, 02:38:18 PM
Why? Take the names out of it, how is an OC that runs the offense, DC that runs the defense and an HC that manages all of it + in-game decisions a unique power structure in the NFL?

This setup is just asking for trouble, especially with the the most cerebral QB perhaps ever. No worthwhile candidate for any of these positions would agree to this. The person in power (HC) is going to want to hire his own people, structure game plans, lead the culture in the locker room and off the field. Under your proposal, you'd be better off hiring Dave Toub and letting him bring in his own guys as OC and DC. I actually still firmly believe Toub would be a hell of a head coach.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on December 03, 2018, 02:47:04 PM
I don't think its crazy to have a HC like that. That's basically John Harbaugh in Baltimore and he's been a successful coach. However, I think the HC has to hire his own coordinators and determine the style/direction of those units.

Right. Some really good coaches (Pete Carroll also comes to mind) aren't involved in the playcalling on either side of the ball, but you've got to let the HC pick his coordinators and offensive/defensive philosophies.
Certainly the Packers can tell their next head coach they want him to keep Pettine (the Bears seemed to have done that with Nagy/Fangio), but it's ultimately got to be the head man's call.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 03, 2018, 03:06:12 PM
Nope, the Packers essentially have a team owner for the first time ever. After Lombardi, all football roles reported to the GM with the GM reporting to the board and Team president. Once TT was ousted (2 years too late IMO) the board reworked the structure in conjunction with Murphy to make all major football roles (GM, HC, and director of football operations) report to the president.

That is not accurate.   Bart Starr and Forest Gregg reported directly to the team President who reported to the Board.  The concept of the coach, reporting to the GM, reporting to the President didn't occur until Ron Wolf made that a condition of him accepting the GM job with the Packers - total control of all football operations.

And the GM *never* reported to the Board.  The only person reporting to the Board was the President, and oftentimes the President was a part time role accepted by a board member.  (Judge Robert Parins was the first full time President in the 1980s.)

Time will tell if going back to the previous model is a good idea
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 03, 2018, 03:13:07 PM
Right. Some really good coaches (Pete Carroll also comes to mind) aren't involved in the playcalling on either side of the ball, but you've got to let the HC pick his coordinators and offensive/defensive philosophies.
Certainly the Packers can tell their next head coach they want him to keep Pettine (the Bears seemed to have done that with Nagy/Fangio), but it's ultimately got to be the head man's call.


Yeah Pettine has been fine, but he's hardly irreplaceable. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on December 03, 2018, 06:53:54 PM
If your new coach can tolerate a 3-4, maybe you ride with Pettine. He's not Fangio, though. Most of the guys under contract (Daniels, Clark, Perry, CBs) could probably convert back to a 4-3. If we even want Perry back.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 03, 2018, 06:59:12 PM
Somebody told me they heard that Pat Fitzgerald is a candidate. Is that really possible?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on December 03, 2018, 07:02:08 PM
Somebody told me they heard that Pat Fitzgerald is a candidate. Is that really possible?

Murphy hired him at Northwestern. Would not be shocked if he's interviewed at minimum
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on December 03, 2018, 08:16:22 PM
Somebody told me they heard that Pat Fitzgerald is a candidate. Is that really possible?

As a Bears fan, I truly hope that's the case.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 03, 2018, 09:23:06 PM
It would be interesting.

None of us can know if he'd be a good NFL coach or a bad one, but he's always seemed like the ultimate rah-rah college type. Doesn't mean he couldn't adjust, I spose.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 03, 2018, 09:35:25 PM
It would be interesting.

None of us can know if he'd be a good NFL coach or a bad one, but he's always seemed like the ultimate rah-rah college type. Doesn't mean he couldn't adjust, I spose.


I really doubt that it will happen for a multitude of reasons. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on December 03, 2018, 09:52:55 PM
It would be interesting.

None of us can know if he'd be a good NFL coach or a bad one, but he's always seemed like the ultimate rah-rah college type. Doesn't mean he couldn't adjust, I spose.

Beyond the rah-rah stuff, he would be coming from a program that has very little pressure and expectations, to the limelight of the NFL. And, not just some job, the Packers gig. Different world from Evanston.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 03, 2018, 11:54:22 PM


None of us can know if he'd be a good NFL coach or a bad one, but he's always seemed like the ultimate rah-rah college type.

Pete Carroll?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on December 04, 2018, 01:09:50 AM
Pete Carroll?

USC is as close to an NFL job as you can get in college. Bright lights of a major market, media attention and pressure that is not completely biased like a college town, distractions and big budgets, win now or you’re done mentality.  (Well it was before they got complacent with a joke like Helton).

Beyond the rah-rah stuff, he would be coming from a program that has very little pressure and expectations, to the limelight of the NFL. And, not just some job, the Packers gig. Different world from Evanston.

Totally agree. It’s one thing to grab a coach from a top tier program with pressure, getting one from somewhere like NW is a diff story. I think Fitz is a good coach, but he’s never been better than 10-3 and is essentially a 7-5 career coach, yet is revered and has the job as long as he wants provided he doesn’t start stringing together sub .500 seasons. He can stay on this track and they will build a statue of him. Other places 10-3 gets you fired. That’s the kind of pressure cooker than resembles the NFL mentality.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 04, 2018, 07:51:24 AM
USC is as close to an NFL job as you can get in college. Bright lights of a major market, media attention and pressure that is not completely biased like a college town, distractions and big budgets, win now or you’re done mentality.  (Well it was before they got complacent with a joke like Helton).


Not only that but Pete Carroll was an NFL coordinator (very successful one at that) and a head coach (somewhat successful) before he even went to USC.  He was an "NFL guy" who went to coach in college.

(Carroll was head coach of the Jets but was fired after one season and replaced with Rich Kotite because the owner was old and wanted to win now.  Update: he did not win now and he died.)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 04, 2018, 08:35:38 AM
Agree on all that was said, but the fact remains that Pete Carroll went from being one of the most rah rah coaches in college football to being the most rah rah coach in the NFL. And was very successful in both. If "rah rah" is your legit personality (as with Carroll) it can work in college or the pros.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 04, 2018, 09:02:37 AM
Agree on all that was said, but the fact remains that Pete Carroll went from being one of the most rah rah coaches in college football to being the most rah rah coach in the NFL. And was very successful in both. If "rah rah" is your legit personality (as with Carroll) it can work in college or the pros.

This is legit ... but so is what JWags and RJax said about it being an incredible leap from the relatively care-free life as the coach at Northwestern and the pressure-cooker of Green Bay.

Northwestern is more of a national school than Chicago school; most Chicago sports fans I knew -- and I knew a LOT of them -- didn't give a rat's rump about football or basketball there. Have a winning record and make a bowl game, and everybody who actually does care is happy.

Plus, LeBron Aaron has to really like the next guy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 04, 2018, 09:22:48 AM
Is Green Bay really that much of a "pressure cooker?"  It's about as far from it as you can get in professional sports, from what I've witnessed.  Mac hung around for about 4 seasons too long.  Dom Capers same story.  I liked Ted, but most people thought he was around for 3 seasons too long.  It's Green Bay, Wisconsin, which is about as far from NYC, NY as you can possibly come.  I'm sure Aaron Rodgers can be tough to coach.  I'm also sure he's played for one coach in his 13 seasons in the NFL and made the guy look like a genius for about 12 of those seasons.  Coach killer?  More like made his coach a crap ton of money for him.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on December 04, 2018, 09:25:08 AM
Pat Fitzgerald is Urban Meyer without the success, I want nothing to do with him as HC in Green Bay.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on December 04, 2018, 09:47:42 AM
Pat Fitzgerald is Urban Meyer without the success, I want nothing to do with him as HC in Green Bay.

I can't think of much more different guys, at least among college football coaches.
Urban has a long history of recruiting/protecting shady kids (and assistant coaches, it seems). I can't recall any significant off-field issues at Northwestern under Fitzgerald's tenure.
Urban is on offensive guy. Fitzgerald comes from the defensive side of the ball.
Urban pulls four- and five-star recruits seemingly at will. Has Fitzgerald ever landed a top 100 kid?
Urban's been a bit of a vagabond, working as HC at four schools since 2001 and numerous stops as an assistant before that. Fitzgerald has been at Northwestern since 2001 and, by all accounts, declined multiple interview opportunities elsewhere.

I don't think Fitzgerald is an NFL coach. But he's nothing like Urban Meyer.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 04, 2018, 09:53:37 AM
Is Green Bay really that much of a "pressure cooker?"  It's about as far from it as you can get in professional sports, from what I've witnessed.  Mac hung around for about 4 seasons too long.  Dom Capers same story.  I liked Ted, but most people thought he was around for 3 seasons too long.  It's Green Bay, Wisconsin, which is about as far from NYC, NY as you can possibly come.  I'm sure Aaron Rodgers can be tough to coach.  I'm also sure he's played for one coach in his 13 seasons in the NFL and made the guy look like a genius for about 12 of those seasons.  Coach killer?  More like made his coach a crap ton of money for him.


Saying that Mac stuck around for four seasons too long, which means you think he should have been let go after getting to a conference championship game and prior to another championship game appearance, is nonsensical.  No NFL team is going to do that.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 04, 2018, 09:55:37 AM
Agree on all that was said, but the fact remains that Pete Carroll went from being one of the most rah rah coaches in college football to being the most rah rah coach in the NFL. And was very successful in both. If "rah rah" is your legit personality (as with Carroll) it can work in college or the pros.


The only way it would work with Fitzgerald is if he lays out a very compelling case for who would be his offensive coordinator and how that would work in the NFL. 

And I think Fitzgerald has accomplished *a lot* at Northwestern considering the history and limitations of the program.  I like Urban Meyer, but I think Fitzgerald has been just as accomplished.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on December 04, 2018, 10:19:04 AM
I can't think of much more different guys, at least among college football coaches.
Urban has a long history of recruiting/protecting shady kids (and assistant coaches, it seems). I can't recall any significant off-field issues at Northwestern under Fitzgerald's tenure.
Urban is on offensive guy. Fitzgerald comes from the defensive side of the ball.
Urban pulls four- and five-star recruits seemingly at will. Has Fitzgerald ever landed a top 100 kid?
Urban's been a bit of a vagabond, working as HC at four schools since 2001 and numerous stops as an assistant before that. Fitzgerald has been at Northwestern since 2001 and, by all accounts, declined multiple interview opportunities elsewhere.

I don't think Fitzgerald is an NFL coach. But he's nothing like Urban Meyer.

They you don't know what is going on within the Northwestern program and how Fitzgerald acts behind the scenes. Yes, he's not a literal copycat (defense vs offense, etc) but his public persona versus behind the scenes behavior is very Urbz.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on December 04, 2018, 10:32:43 AM
They you don't know what is going on within the Northwestern program and how Fitzgerald acts behind the scenes. Yes, he's not a literal copycat (defense vs offense, etc) but his public persona versus behind the scenes behavior is very Urbz.

If you're suggesting he's a tyrant behind the scenes ... welcome to big-time college football. Find me a successful coach who's not an a-hole behind the scenes. It's kind of requisite.
If you're suggesting Fitzgerald is covering up for domestic abusers and other assorted criminals, etc. ... do tell.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 04, 2018, 10:57:11 AM

Saying that Mac stuck around for four seasons too long, which means you think he should have been let go after getting to a conference championship game and prior to another championship game appearance, is nonsensical.  No NFL team is going to do that.

Marty Shottenheimer didn't make it to the NFC Title game, but he did go 14-2 and lost to the eventual Super Bowl champion in the Divisional round before he was fired.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 04, 2018, 11:16:41 AM
Marty Shottenheimer didn't make it to the NFC Title game, but he did go 14-2 and lost to the eventual Super Bowl champion in the Divisional round before he was fired.

OK cool.  And was replaced with worse coach. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 04, 2018, 11:54:02 AM
OK cool.  And was replaced with worse coach.

Which wasn’t what you originally said.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 04, 2018, 01:14:57 PM
Which wasn’t what you originally said.


You are correct.  I was wrong that no NFL was going to do that. 

A correct statement should have been "no smart-thinking NFL team is going to do that as evidenced by the fact that the Chargers did so and ended up with a worse coach."

The fact is that the Packers, like 99% of the teams out there, weren't going to get rid of McCarthy four years ago.  The earliest it would have made sense is after last year, but they ran Thompson out and apparently decided not to make wholesale changes immediately.  Should they have just made a clean sweep last year?  In retrospect, it would have made sense.  This feels like a wasted year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 04, 2018, 02:38:35 PM
Furst thin' eye've agreed wit ya, Pontiff, in yeers, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: #UnleashSean on December 04, 2018, 06:07:27 PM

Saying that Mac stuck around for four seasons too long, which means you think he should have been let go after getting to a conference championship game and prior to another championship game appearance, is nonsensical.  No NFL team is going to do that.

Wades is the standard nonsensical Wisconsin sports fan.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 04, 2018, 06:10:09 PM
Wades is the standard nonsensical Wisconsin sports fan.

Or the one who had it right for years. You pick. Lol.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 04, 2018, 06:14:34 PM
Or the one who had it right for years. You pick. Lol.

Eh. No idea if a supposed replacement would have been any better or worse. Since most coaches are eventually fired, saying that you were right after one eventually is, its a pretty empty gesture.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 05, 2018, 09:27:11 AM
https://deadspin.com/packers-crapcan-associate-head-coach-winston-moss-hours-1830869356

This is kind of funny on many levels.  Beyond the tweet, I guess he was PISSED that he wasn't named interim since he was "associate head coach," but the guy has really never been seen as a up-and-coming coach of any sort.  And they limit his speaking to reporters because of stuff like this.

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-watch-packers-associate-coach-winston-moss-stares-down-reporters-video/i7o20p9vzqa51fekwc2ubbk4r

So they just canned him.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on December 05, 2018, 09:47:57 AM
Harbaugh to Green Bay.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on December 05, 2018, 10:04:34 AM
Harbaugh to Green Bay.

Joani?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on December 05, 2018, 10:15:10 AM
Just tossing the bait on the water.  Murmurings out of Ann Arbor.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 05, 2018, 10:18:56 AM
Just tossing the bait on the water.  Murmurings out of Ann Arbor.

I just don't see it.  I wouldn't doubt that Jim is trying to find a safe place to land though.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 05, 2018, 10:25:43 AM
Arians comments were somewhat odd, it was a flat out hard "no" when asked if he was interested in GB. I don't know if it's a lifestyle thing and he just doesn't want to live there, or if he knows there's a massive cluster eff in the front office there or what.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 05, 2018, 10:30:08 AM
Arians comments were somewhat odd, it was a flat out hard "no" when asked if he was interested in GB. I don't know if it's a lifestyle thing and he just doesn't want to live there, or if he knows there's a massive cluster eff in the front office there or what.


I think that McCarthy is very well thought of in league circles and established coaches may be wary of the circumstances by which he was let go.  Front office, quarterback, etc. 

It will be a challenging situation.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 05, 2018, 10:35:26 AM
Nah, it don't matta. Coaches are whores and bread is bread. Green Bay is a plum job witout an ego maniac for an owner. Great job and da Pack will have its pick of da litter, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on December 05, 2018, 10:39:08 AM
Harbaugh to Green Bay.

Honestly, unless they think McDaniels is "reformed", Jimbo may be the best choice for the remainder of Rodgers' career. Great coach, demands and I think would get the respect of his QB. He does seem to wear out his welcome fast, though, so he may not be your best hire if you're trying to get 13 years out of a guy and transition into the next QB cycle.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on December 05, 2018, 11:40:56 AM
Just tossing the bait on the water.  Murmurings out of Ann Arbor.

With Urban out at tOSU, Harbaugh has plenty of reason to stick around at Michigan.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUBurrow on December 05, 2018, 11:55:52 AM
Nah, it don't matta. Coaches are whores and bread is bread. Green Bay is a plum job witout an ego maniac for an owner. Great job and da Pack will have its pick of da litter, hey?

This may end up being true, but the last 11 months haven't made the front office, and particularly Murphy, look very good.  First canning literally everyone around McCarthy, setting him up for a one year tryout in a totally different environment where he'd been publicly knocked down a few pegs. Then the gradual consolidation of power in Murphy, followed by yesterday's strange press conference.  Green Bay's own ginger hammer.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 05, 2018, 12:26:02 PM
I'm pretty sure that McCarthy is the one who fired Bennett and VanPelt.  He may have had to be "encouraged" to drop Capers, but I think the first two were all on him.

But yeah I don't think the front office is looking very good right now.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on December 05, 2018, 01:52:16 PM
I'm pretty sure that McCarthy is the one who fired Bennett and VanPelt.  He may have had to be "encouraged" to drop Capers, but I think the first two were all on him.

But yeah I don't think the front office is looking very good right now.

The way it was presented in public was that McCarthy cleaned house, but not sure if that's reality our media posturing.

I think the front office has cover right now with the majority(no idea how large the majority is) fans supportive of firing McCarthy. What will be interesting is what ends up replacing the McCarthy regime. There is a non-zero chance that the next coach staff is not as good as McCarthy.....if Murphy misses with the next coach, how soon before the masses come for him given the last two years.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 05, 2018, 04:12:08 PM
gee zus, how old is winston moss?  14?  yud think he's a little above the twitter thing, ey?  well, maybe now he is...what a pud :-X
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on December 05, 2018, 05:17:28 PM
gee zus, how old is winston moss?  14?  yud think he's a little above the twitter thing, ey?  well, maybe now he is...what a pud :-X

So your opinion is that using twitter is immature? And people who use it are "puds"?

Edited for grammar
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jay Bee on December 05, 2018, 05:29:40 PM
So you're opinion is that using twitter is immature? And people who use it are "puds"?

Your vs. you're.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 05, 2018, 06:39:58 PM
So your opinion is that using twitter is immature? And people who use it are "puds"?

Edited for grammar

nice try...is that what i said?  try it again
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on December 05, 2018, 06:59:29 PM
nice try...is that what i said?  try it again

Well, I apologize for misinterpreting your message.

Can you expand? Because "above the twitter thing" seems to imply that
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on December 05, 2018, 08:04:04 PM
Well, I apologize for misinterpreting your message.

Can you expand? Because "above the twitter thing" seems to imply that

I'm going to take a stab at this, because, well...I'm bored, and I've done pretty good at speaking "Rocket" in the past. 

I think he was referring to the childish/immature aspect of airing out personal or petty feuds on social media, often Twitter.  Not simply using twitter itself.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on December 05, 2018, 08:22:54 PM
I'm going to take a stab at this, because, well...I'm bored, and I've done pretty good at speaking "Rocket" in the past. 

I think he was referring to the childish/immature aspect of airing out personal or petty feuds on social media, often Twitter.  Not simply using twitter itself.

That I understand and agree with.

But, being today's world what it is... We have LOTS of people who do that. From teenagers to the very top.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on December 05, 2018, 08:43:45 PM
That I understand and agree with.

But, being today's world what it is... We have LOTS of people who do that. From teenagers to the very top.

Agreed. Over the years I started to realize that too many adults/parents/grandparents are just as bad when it comes to petty arguments, cliques, and such, as your average teen.  They apparently never matured beyond the age of 12-17.

And that is uniform across all levels of society, and hierarchy of power.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 05, 2018, 11:24:32 PM
So your opinion is that using twitter is immature? And people who use it are "puds"?

Edited for grammar

forget had it pretty close.  jesman, you tried to lure me in to a back alley-my opinion is that mr winston is immature and a pud-simple stuff.  pretty much cost him his job depending on who you talk to.  does everyone have to run to twitter every time they've got to take a crap.  it's like a big gossip machine trying to get followers.  well, he might have gained a few more followers, but now he has a lot more time to twit...his pud
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: reinko on December 06, 2018, 08:55:11 AM
I think what this guy is doing pretty clear...he knew he would be let go at the end of the season, so why not be a McCarthy-stand publicly, get in McCarthy's good favor, so when MM lands in a good spot, he brings his loyal soldier with him.

It's not that hard folks
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on December 06, 2018, 11:21:27 AM
I think what this guy is doing pretty clear...he knew he would be let go at the end of the season, so why not be a McCarthy-stand publicly, get in McCarthy's good favor, so when MM lands in a good spot, he brings his loyal soldier with him.

It's not that hard folks

McCarthy stand-in? Dude threw McCarthy under the bus with that tweet which implied that McCarthy couldn't keep Rodgers in check.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: reinko on December 06, 2018, 01:27:46 PM
McCarthy stand-in? Dude threw McCarthy under the bus with that tweet which implied that McCarthy couldn't keep Rodgers in check.

Yeah, hand up 🤚🏼, misread the tweet.

Now back to your regular scheduled program.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 06, 2018, 04:52:16 PM
Not that this is a huge deal, but this is pretty cool of the Packers to do.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/12/06/packers-players-gave-mike-mccarthy-standing-ovation/
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 06, 2018, 05:28:41 PM
I guess no one is really outta the question, ey?

  https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/Brett-Favre-Packers-head-coach-candidate--125925994/

  I can just imagine Brett in spring training going thru some plays.  He’s kneeling on the ground with a stick in his hand, drawing out plays in the dirt in the middle of don hutson field with a crowd of packer players looking over his shoulder ;D
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 06, 2018, 06:43:22 PM
Not that this is a huge deal, but this is pretty cool of the Packers to do.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/12/06/packers-players-gave-mike-mccarthy-standing-ovation/

I have been one who has said Mac needed to go - the game has passed him by.

But he certainly should be treated with respect for all he has done in the past and the class he has shown - both as coach, and in the last few days.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 06, 2018, 10:28:52 PM
My wife's grandfather, who passed in April, remained a (football) Cardinal fan despite living in Chicago for his whole life.  The sons and grandsons flew him to AZ for a game a few years back, and the joke yesterday was that Grandpa was happy because the Cardinals won and the Bears lost.

Are you sure?  Some other members seem to think this isn't possible.  Did your wife's grandfather follow the Cubs, or was he not allowed into the Venn Diagram?   ;D
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: SaveOD238 on December 07, 2018, 09:22:06 AM
Are you sure?  Some other members seem to think this isn't possible.  Did your wife's grandfather follow the Cubs, or was he not allowed into the Venn Diagram?   ;D

He was also a Cubs fan. 

I now own his car, and I have been warned by family members against adding any Brewer stickers to the windows.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 07, 2018, 09:32:32 AM
He was also a Cubs fan. 

I now own his car, and I have been warned by family members against adding any Brewer stickers to the windows.

Cubs fan and a Cardinals football fan living in the city of Chicago?   ;)

Yes, I know because there are plenty of us despite some of the know-it-alls here and their Venn diagrams.  Thank you for providing additional evidence to support my experience. Your grandfather was not alone in those team allegiances.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 07, 2018, 11:20:58 AM
Cubs fan and a Cardinals football fan living in the city of Chicago?   ;)

Yes, I know because there are plenty of us despite some of the know-it-alls here and their Venn diagrams.  Thank you for providing additional evidence to support my experience. Your grandfather was not alone in those team allegiances.

Chicos, what teams weren't you a fan of?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 07, 2018, 01:44:58 PM
Chicos, what teams weren't you a fan of?

He hates the Angels ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on December 07, 2018, 07:55:26 PM
Chicos, what teams weren't you a fan of?

Hmmm.....I'll answer this since it was directed at me?  I think?  I feel like I occupy a space in your head or something. You sure do talk about me a lot. 

Angels -  grew up in So. Cal, worked for them, partial season ticket holder that is lucky enough to watch best player on the planet in person.
Ducks - grew up in So. Cal, worked for them, attend probably 10 games a year. 
Cowboys - born in Texas, their training camp was in my home town in So. Cal from 1960 to 1989 which I would attend on a yearly basis in the late 70's and early 80's, including as a member of their youth team (Conejo Cowboys) that volunteered each Summer at Cal Lutheran College to work with the team.  Golden era with Staubach, Pearson, Dorsett, Landry.  Was in Dallas last week for New Orleans game....great time.
NBA -  N/A.  No favorite team.

Marquette - graduate, former employee of the athletic department
Indiana (distant second).  Graduate school alum
Kansas (even more distant third).  Graduate school alum
UCLA football (not basketball).  Grew up down the street from Terry Donahue. Would go to games most of my life. Liked the under dog role of team instead of USC Toejams

Pretty straight forward
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 07, 2018, 08:42:10 PM
Hmmm.....I'll answer this since it was directed at me?  I think?  I feel like I occupy a space in your head or something. You sure do talk about me a lot. 

Angels -  grew up in So. Cal, worked for them, partial season ticket holder that is lucky enough to watch best player on the planet in person.
Ducks - grew up in So. Cal, worked for them, attend probably 10 games a year. 
Cowboys - born in Texas, their training camp was in my home town in So. Cal from 1960 to 1989 which I would attend on a yearly basis in the late 70's and early 80's, including as a member of their youth team (Conejo Cowboys) that volunteered each Summer at Cal Lutheran College to work with the team.  Golden era with Staubach, Pearson, Dorsett, Landry.  Was in Dallas last week for New Orleans game....great time.
NBA -  N/A.  No favorite team.

Marquette - graduate, former employee of the athletic department
Indiana (distant second).  Graduate school alum
Kansas (even more distant third).  Graduate school alum
UCLA football (not basketball).  Grew up down the street from Terry Donahue. Would go to games most of my life. Liked the under dog role of team instead of USC Toejams

Pretty straight forward

You didn’t answer the question.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 09, 2018, 02:29:04 PM
Yup. Kaepernick is worse than Sanchez ;D
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on December 09, 2018, 05:31:35 PM
BROWNS!!!!!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 09, 2018, 08:26:05 PM
Chicos, what teams weren't you a fan of?

Chicos, why do you care in all sincerity?

If you must know, I will answer, but why do you care?

Cubs  MLB.  Cardinals NFL.  Bulls  NBA.  Marquette.  Those are the sports I care about. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 09, 2018, 08:37:26 PM
Chicos, why do you care in all sincerity?

If you must know, I will answer, but why do you care?

Cubs  MLB.  Cardinals NFL.  Bulls  NBA.  Marquette.  Those are the sports I care about.

Lol. Thank you for responding on both usernames.

You did not answer the question correctly on either username. Cheeks and warriordad both incorrectly answer the question in the same exact way. Hmm.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on December 09, 2018, 10:47:06 PM
Bears D is for real. 6 points, no TDs and barely 200 yards to the Rams.

If Trubisky can just not stink, gotta like this team's chances going forward.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 09, 2018, 10:48:46 PM
Bears magic number to clinch a playoff spot is 1 (any combo of Bears wins or Washington losses). Viking loss tomorrow would mean Bears clinch the North next Sunday with a win.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 10, 2018, 07:50:39 AM
BROWNS!!!!!

Snow and ice storm caused us to lose power at about 4:30 p.m. yesterday, and it didn't come back on till 12:30 a.m.

If only we had lost power a few hours earlier, I wouldn't have had to watch my Panthers piss down their legs again.

Congrats to your Browns; they deserved to win. You definitely have some nice pieces for the future, starting with your QB.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 10, 2018, 08:38:34 AM
Injoy da teperate Atlantic coast, Nads. Pretty darn deecent in da Midwest fore dis tyme of yeer, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 10, 2018, 08:45:28 AM
Lol. Thank you for responding on both usernames.

You did not answer the question correctly on either username. Cheeks and warriordad both incorrectly answer the question in the same exact way. Hmm.

I have one username. You continue to call me a member here that I am not.  The bizarre question you asked was answered in the most common sense way possible.  Spending hours here listing 1000's of teams that are not my favorite teams is both futile and moronic.  My list of favorite teams was given to you, instead of listing every one in every league, every college, that is not.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 10, 2018, 08:49:13 AM
Bears magic number to clinch a playoff spot is 1 (any combo of Bears wins or Washington losses). Viking loss tomorrow would mean Bears clinch the North next Sunday with a win.

NFL should suspend the referees in that Cowboys game. League wants the Cowboys in the playoffs for ratings.  How is it possible that a Dallas player fumbles the ball, only green shirts are around it and they recover, but they let Dallas keep the ball?  Philadelphia challenged the call, it was reversed and ruled a fumble, but the replay officials said no one had a clear recovery? 

The NFL still has many on the field quality issues. See replay.  No way that is Dallas ball.  Eagles got robbed.

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1071881035061886976?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1071881035061886976&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bleedinggreennation.com%2F2018%2F12%2F9%2F18133387%2Fphiladelphia-eagles-kamu-grugier-hill-robbed-fumble-recovery-against-cowboys-malcolm-jenkins-refs
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on December 10, 2018, 09:06:55 AM
Snow and ice storm caused us to lose power at about 4:30 p.m. yesterday, and it didn't come back on till 12:30 a.m.

If only we had lost power a few hours earlier, I wouldn't have had to watch my Panthers piss down their legs again.

Congrats to your Browns; they deserved to win. You definitely have some nice pieces for the future, starting with your QB.

For the first time in my lifetime, it's fun being a Browns fan! 

Cam played well in spite of his bum shoulder.  Not sure why you guys didn't give the ball to McCaffrey 4 times on the goal line though.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 10, 2018, 09:09:59 AM
Was at the Bears game last night. Absolutely electric atmosphere.

I don’t think Soldier Field has ever had the reputation for being loud, but man, last nights crowd was something special.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on December 10, 2018, 09:24:28 AM
For the first time in my lifetime, it's fun being a Browns fan! 

If they can find a coach, that team could be something real quick.  Baker is the real deal, Chubb is really good.  They have some really nice pieces on defense.  Lot of reason for optimism.

Was at the Bears game last night. Absolutely electric atmosphere.

I don’t think Soldier Field has ever had the reputation for being loud, but man, last nights crowd was something special.

Ive been super hard on Nagy as Ive said, but man he's starting to put it together.  Little things too.  He had Braunecker take an intentional false start on a punt late in the game to milk some more time off the clock.  Lose one you shouldnt to the Giants, win one you probably shouldnt to the Rams.  One step closer!


Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 10, 2018, 09:25:59 AM
For the first time in my lifetime, it's fun being a Browns fan! 

Cam played well in spite of his bum shoulder.  Not sure why you guys didn't give the ball to McCaffrey 4 times on the goal line though.

I would have done some kind of play-fake with McCaffrey on 2nd or 3rd down, and probably rolled Cam out with a receiver, which worked well a couple times earlier in the game.

Overall, I have been pleased with Norv Turner as an offensive coordinator, but the last few weeks his red-zone calls have been questionable. Then again, Cam -- who has mostly played very well -- has missed a few receivers in the end zone, so that obviously hurts.

I don't blame you about the Browns. I really like some of their skill-position players.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 10, 2018, 09:42:44 AM
If they can find a coach, that team could be something real quick.  Baker is the real deal, Chubb is really good.  They have some really nice pieces on defense.  Lot of reason for optimism.



Could Gregg Williams get the gig full time? 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU B2002 on December 10, 2018, 09:53:40 AM
For the first time in my lifetime, it's fun being a Browns fan! 

Cam played well in spite of his bum shoulder.  Not sure why you guys didn't give the ball to McCaffrey 4 times on the goal line though.

I know Cam is dinged up, but if he had a little touch on the ball they could have scored a couple times on the goal line.  Not every pass has to be 100 mph.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on December 10, 2018, 10:08:05 AM

Could Gregg Williams get the gig full time?

I'm happy with Williams so far as HC, but he would have to hire a DC for sure and retain Kitchens.  If Dorsey doesn't want to stick with Williams, I'd be happy if he offered the job to McCarthy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 10, 2018, 10:23:38 AM
I know Cam is dinged up, but if he had a little touch on the ball they could have scored a couple times on the goal line.  Not every pass has to be 100 mph.

Agreed. His pass to Samuel was too hard too fast. The kid didn't have time to turn and get his hands in position. His pass to Wright was simply too high; that guy has great hands and has been a good clutch receiver all season. If Cam gives him a chance, he'll catch it. Same kind of thing happened at the end of the Detroit game.

I'm a big Cam fan, but I certainly can admit it when he messes up, and he did this time. But the loss obviously wasn't his fault. The Panthers' once-vaunted D keeps giving up huge plays, game after game after game. Rivera's in trouble, methinks.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on December 10, 2018, 12:07:51 PM

Could Gregg Williams get the gig full time?

I doubt it. I think the Browns recent play is more of an indicator of how terrible Hue Jackson was. I will say, Freddie Kitchens will definitely be in-demand for OC jobs, if he isn't retained by the new staff.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 10, 2018, 08:58:35 PM
This Vikes offense tonight...yuck.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on December 10, 2018, 09:13:12 PM
This Vikes offense tonight...yuck.

On the one end of the spectrum we have Chiefs-Rams. On the other we have....whatever this is
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 10, 2018, 09:31:57 PM
Usually I’m pro go for it, but down 6-0, doing nothing on offense, a brutal third down play call, and the Vikes go for it and come up with nothing.

Barring a turnover, they’ll get two more possessions max and have zero room for error on a night they’ve done zilch.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on December 10, 2018, 09:41:14 PM
These seahawks uniforms are fantastic.  GFPhawks!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 10, 2018, 10:01:33 PM
The Queens love paying a loooot of money for mediocre (generously) QBs. I’d be willing to save them $80M and play the next 4 years for $4M at QB. Can’t be much worse and they can invest the $80M elsewhere.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 10, 2018, 10:25:25 PM
The Queens love paying a loooot of money for mediocre (generously) QBs. I’d be willing to save them $80M and play the next 4 years for $4M at QB. Can’t be much worse and they can invest the $80M elsewhere.

I was one of the few here who called Cousins overrated - before he signed.

Cousins will be 30 at the start of the season and has yet to win a playoff game. Very Cutler-esque. At 30, Jay had one playoff win, but only because he was lucky enough to play a sub .500 team. Some stupid GM is going to give this guy a long term deal somewhere in the  $25 -$30 million per year range  --  1/30/18


Not only will a team overpay for Cousins, they will way, way, way overpay  --  1/31/18
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 10, 2018, 10:27:09 PM
I was one of the few here who called Cousins overrated - before he signed.

Cousins will be 30 at the start of the season and has yet to win a playoff game. Very Cutler-esque. At 30, Jay had one playoff win, but only because he was lucky enough to play a sub .500 team. Some stupid GM is going to give this guy a long term deal somewhere in the  $25 -$30 million per year range  --  1/30/18


Not only will a team overpay for Cousins, they will way, way, way overpay  --  1/31/18

OK, brand, I'll give you kudos for a good call.

Always fun to watch this oh-for-6-decades bunch fall apart.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on December 11, 2018, 09:56:28 AM
The Queens love paying a loooot of money for mediocre (generously) QBs. I’d be willing to save them $80M and play the next 4 years for $4M at QB. Can’t be much worse and they can invest the $80M elsewhere.

No they can't since they 100% guaranteed it = SKOL!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 11, 2018, 09:58:56 AM
No they can't since they 100% guaranteed it = SKOL!

Lol you're right.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 11, 2018, 11:00:48 AM
They'll make their new offensive coordinator the sacrificial lamb as soon as the season ends.

EDIT:  Or maybe they'll do it today.

https://twitter.com/YahooSportsNFL/status/1072536576159309824
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on December 11, 2018, 11:15:07 AM
They'll make their new offensive coordinator the sacrificial lamb as soon as the season ends.

EDIT:  Or maybe they'll do it today.

https://twitter.com/YahooSportsNFL/status/1072536576159309824

Up-and-coming future head coach to fired in a span of 13 games.
The NFL is the best.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 11, 2018, 11:17:01 AM
Rumor was he was on the list for the Packers too.  He might still be.

Imagine having to base your career on Kirk Counsin's performance.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on December 11, 2018, 11:17:14 AM
Up-and-coming future head coach to fired in a span of 13 games.
The NFL is the best.

Back in September, he seemed like a lock for an open HC job this off-season.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: barfolomew on December 12, 2018, 03:32:21 PM
From NFL.com:

"The NFL announced Wednesday which five teams will be home teams in the league's international games, with four games in London and one in Mexico City.

While dates, times and teams designated as away teams won't be revealed until the spring, the league unveiled the Jacksonville Jaguars, Los Angeles Rams, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Oakland Raiders and Los Angeles Chargers as hosts."

So that mean that among the Rams, Raiders, and Chargers, TWO of those teams will travel over 5,400 miles for a "home" game. Even if they leave from an east coast city the week before, that's a long friggin road trip.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on December 12, 2018, 03:36:54 PM
Rumor was he was on the list for the Packers too.  He might still be.

Imagine having to base your career on Kirk Counsin's performance.

Stuck with an overrated, overpaid QB and you don't have your dynamic talented young RB for most of the season.  Rough.  But man that offense looked putrid for sure.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 12, 2018, 03:42:10 PM
From NFL.com:

"The NFL announced Wednesday which five teams will be home teams in the league's international games, with four games in London and one in Mexico City.

While dates, times and teams designated as away teams won't be revealed until the spring, the league unveiled the Jacksonville Jaguars, Los Angeles Rams, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Oakland Raiders and Los Angeles Chargers as hosts."

So that mean that among the Rams, Raiders, and Chargers, TWO of those teams will travel over 5,400 miles for a "home" game. Even if they leave from an east coast city the week before, that's a long friggin road trip.



They usually get their bye week after.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 12, 2018, 07:19:33 PM
From NFL.com:

"The NFL announced Wednesday which five teams will be home teams in the league's international games, with four games in London and one in Mexico City.

While dates, times and teams designated as away teams won't be revealed until the spring, the league unveiled the Jacksonville Jaguars, Los Angeles Rams, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Oakland Raiders and Los Angeles Chargers as hosts."

So that mean that among the Rams, Raiders, and Chargers, TWO of those teams will travel over 5,400 miles for a "home" game. Even if they leave from an east coast city the week before, that's a long friggin road trip.

When the NFL helps negotiate and kick in on your stadium deal, that’s part of the known price you pay.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on December 12, 2018, 07:33:03 PM
When the NFL helps negotiate and kick in on your stadium deal, that’s part of the known price you pay.

You'll note that it's often the same teams giving up home games for these adventures abroad ... Raiders, Jags, Rams, Chargers.  It's because their stadium situations and revenues suck (relative to their peers) and they earn significantly more as the home team in London or Mexico  City than in Oakland or Jacksonville.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RushmoreAcademy on December 13, 2018, 10:04:01 AM
Bears magic number to clinch a playoff spot is 1 (any combo of Bears wins or Washington losses). Viking loss tomorrow would mean Bears clinch the North next Sunday with a win.

Would be nice to wrap it up Sunday.  Once that's settled comes the issue of when and who to rest.  I don't think you want to sit Mitch at all, since he's young and we want him in as much of a consistent groove as possible.
Just the fact that we can think about that question is really nice.  I barely remember what the playoffs feel like.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 13, 2018, 10:06:55 AM
Would be nice to wrap it up Sunday.  Once that's settled comes the issue of when and who to rest.  I don't think you want to sit Mitch at all, since he's young and we want him in as much of a consistent groove as possible.
Just the fact that we can think about that question is really nice.  I barely remember what the playoffs feel like.

You guys are positioned to be the Vikings of the next generation.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 13, 2018, 11:35:15 AM
You guys are positioned to be the Vikings of the next generation.

The slightest bit of Bears success and you get yourself all wound up.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on December 13, 2018, 11:48:26 AM
Would be nice to wrap it up Sunday.  Once that's settled comes the issue of when and who to rest.  I don't think you want to sit Mitch at all, since he's young and we want him in as much of a consistent groove as possible.

Cause running a dude with a shoulder problem out in meaningless games is less of a problem then getting him continual reps for the last 2 weeks of the season?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 13, 2018, 11:48:49 AM
You guys are positioned to be the Vikings of the next generation.

Nah, the Vikings are still the Vikings. Nothing's gonna change that.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RushmoreAcademy on December 13, 2018, 01:04:36 PM
Cause running a dude with a shoulder problem out in meaningless games is less of a problem then getting him continual reps for the last 2 weeks of the season?

I don't think I felt this way until I his performance against the Rams.  I thought it to be some combination of shoulder and having missed a few weeks.  Of course if his shoulder needs more time I wouldn't I wouldn't want him out there.  They way they've handled injuries so far this year, I assume if he's not healed he won't play.   
By who should we rest I mean more for avoiding doomsday purposes than dealing with injuries.   
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 13, 2018, 10:27:02 PM
Officiating has been atrocious tonight.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 13, 2018, 10:34:50 PM
Phil Rivers is your 2018 NFL MVP.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 14, 2018, 09:57:53 PM
My sources are telling me that McCarthy ain’t going to Cleveland and pat fitzgerald is the front runner to be the next head coach in title town. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 14, 2018, 10:33:58 PM
My sources are telling me that McCarthy ain’t going to Cleveland and pat fitzgerald is the front runner to be the next head coach in title town.

As a Northwestern/Bears fan, that would be the biggest kick to the 'nads in regards to sports in my entire life.

Please god don't let that happen (Although I think Fitz would be a terrible NFL coach).
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RushmoreAcademy on December 14, 2018, 11:50:34 PM
I absolutely love Fitz but I can’t imagine this. They have one shot at getting an innovative offensive mind to make the most of Rodgers late years.
I’m a Bears fan and I fear the next hire....but not if it’s Fitz.


My sources are telling me that McCarthy ain’t going to Cleveland and pat fitzgerald is the front runner to be the next head coach in title town.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 🏀 on December 14, 2018, 11:50:53 PM
As a Northwestern/Bears fan, that would be the biggest kick to the 'nads in regards to sports in my entire life.

Please god don't let that happen (Although I think Fitz would be a terrible NFL coach).

Fitz isn't an NFL coach. Do not unnatural carnal knowledge this up.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 15, 2018, 07:17:10 AM
 I think fitz and gutekunst are bff’s. So either they stay bff’s and separate or give their bff status the ultimate tester eyna?

The reason McCarthy doesn’t do Cleveland is because zo cannot sit at the same table with him.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on December 15, 2018, 07:40:50 AM
If they hire Fitzgerald you'll find me the next day after distributing pitchforks and torch material outside of Murphy's house
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on December 15, 2018, 11:03:55 AM
This is coming from someone who is a casual NW football fan after moving to Chicago a decade ago, and who loves Fitz and his fit there.  I can understand why he would do it.  You're still young, its a premier job as long as Rodgers is there, if you want to take a run at the highest level, this is it.

I cannot FATHOM this from the Packers end, even with the friend connection.  Has spent one year of actual coaching outside of Evanston.  Never won 11 games, never finished in the top 15, one division title in 12 years.  He's a good coach and a PERFECT fit at NW, but man that doesn't scream "take a flier on him making the jump".
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 15, 2018, 02:30:59 PM
This is coming from someone who is a casual NW football fan after moving to Chicago a decade ago, and who loves Fitz and his fit their.  I can understand why he would do it.  You're still young, its a premier job as long as Rodgers is there, if you want to take a run at the highest level, this is it.

I cannot FATHOM this from the Packers end, even with the friend connection.  Has spent one year of actual coaching outside of Evanston.  Never won 11 games, never finished in the top 15, one division title in 12 years.  He's a good coach and a PERFECT fit at NW, but man that doesn't scream "take a flier on him making the jump".

  all good thoughts, BUT pf has done quite well with less talented brainiacs
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: TinyTimsLittleBrother on December 15, 2018, 04:51:38 PM
I have a hard time believing that Fitzgerald is a serious contender. I don’t care how close he might be with Murphy. I would hire my friends to work for me either!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 16, 2018, 10:52:31 AM
Rodgers doesn’t have a road victory since Week 5 2017 at Dallas.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 16, 2018, 12:13:42 PM
If they hire Fitzgerald you'll find me the next day after distributing pitchforks and torch material outside of Murphy's house

Eng, why do you hate Fitzgerald so much? Does it have anything to do with him not being interested in Penn St after the Joe Paterno fiasco?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 16, 2018, 02:04:01 PM
Nagy gave the Packers the win in week 1.  He's trying to repeat it today.  This coach should have his team with 1 loss this year, but his inane decisions have saddled them with some L's.  Fake punt up 14-6?  What an idiot.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 16, 2018, 02:09:21 PM
Nagy gave the Packers the win in week 1.  He's trying to repeat it today.  This coach should have his team with 1 loss this year, but his inane decisions have saddled them with some L's.  Fake punt up 14-6?  What an idiot.

Baffling decision yes but gotta take the good with the bad. No way is Fox a .500 coach with this team.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: cheebs09 on December 16, 2018, 02:11:37 PM
Nagy gave the Packers the win in week 1.  He's trying to repeat it today.  This coach should have his team with 1 loss this year, but his inane decisions have saddled them with some L's.  Fake punt up 14-6?  What an idiot.

That last play may have topped this.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Archies Bat on December 16, 2018, 02:12:08 PM
I  love gimmick plays by the Bears.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: cheebs09 on December 16, 2018, 02:14:28 PM
About as poor of a possession as you can have by the Packers there. Hoping that would have left with McCarthy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 16, 2018, 02:44:32 PM
That pick should clinch the North and end the Packers season.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 16, 2018, 03:04:18 PM
How ya doing there Brand?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 16, 2018, 03:10:01 PM
I don't know what will happen in the playoffs, but the Bears will be a tough out.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on December 16, 2018, 03:15:41 PM
I don't know what will happen in the playoffs, but the Bears will be a tough out.

Depends on Jackson's injury
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 16, 2018, 03:57:53 PM
I think Jackson will be ok, looked like a rolled ankle. They can give him 2 weeks off to recoup.

They just have to beat the Niners to wrap up the 3rd seed, and can rest everyone at Minny.

Injuries, a brutal Mitch game, and/or a bad Nagy decision can kill them in a playoff game. But, this should be house money, a year ahead of where they should be, took advantage of down years from the Pack and Vikes. Things can change fast in the NFL, might as well win the tournament now if they can.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on December 16, 2018, 06:02:52 PM
Nagy gave the Packers the win in week 1.  He's trying to repeat it today.  This coach should have his team with 1 loss this year, but his inane decisions have saddled them with some L's.  Fake punt up 14-6?  What an idiot.

Good thing you are a Cardinals fan.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on December 16, 2018, 06:20:55 PM
Eng, why do you hate Fitzgerald so much? Does it have anything to do with him not being interested in Penn St after the Joe Paterno fiasco?

Nope never wanted him at PSU. Have heard some shady stories from recruits over the years and he is not a good coach, benefits from a bad division in the Big 10
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 16, 2018, 06:31:02 PM
He's the winningest coach in Northwestern football history since the 1930s.  I don't think you understand how hard it is to win there.  I don't think he should be the Packers choice at all, but to say he is not a good coach is just not accurate.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 16, 2018, 06:34:53 PM
Nagy gave the Packers the win in week 1.  He's trying to repeat it today.  This coach should have his team with 1 loss this year, but his inane decisions have saddled them with some L's.  Fake punt up 14-6?  What an idiot.

Yep, he's an idiot all right. Bears are clearly the best team in football and pretty much everybody knew it coming into this season. Any competent coach has them 13-1 and with a good one they're 14-0 and ready to make history. Putz.

BTW, Ive forgotten - did Nagy drop that pass thrown right to him by Rodgers in week !? Could have sworn it was Fuller.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 16, 2018, 07:09:27 PM
Good thing you are a Cardinals fan.

We get all the Chicago games, part of living in the area.  For the same reason Seattle residents receive all the Seahawks games, but not everyone in Seattle is a Seahawks fan.  I think I commented on the Bears two games this year.  Game one and today.  A Bears fan would be commented on them routinely during the season.  Nagy would make me nervous if he were my coach.  He brings them up to high heights, but dumb decisions could undo it all.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on December 16, 2018, 07:21:59 PM
Yep, he's an idiot all right. Bears are clearly the best team in football and pretty much everybody knew it coming into this season. Any competent coach has them 13-1 and with a good one they're 14-0 and ready to make history. Putz.

BTW, Ive forgotten - did Nagy drop that pass thrown right to him by Rodgers in week !? Could have sworn it was Fuller.

Week one the play calling and clock management at the end were what lost the game.  He and his team controlled that element, not whether an interception was caught.  That was on Nagy, and many of the city's sportswriters called him on it.  He has been very successful, that doesn't mean he hasn't made some considerable blunders. It was like watching Kyle Shanihan against the Patriots in the SB.  Atrocious play calling, equally bad clock management game one.  Never should have lost that game or the Dolphins game.  Giants game was another, but with with a backup QB you let that one slide.

He has done very good things with this team, who already had a lot of talent.  The question is whether some of his stupid decisions will ultimately hurt them. Is there enough good to overcome the bad?

No need for the personal attack name calling. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 16, 2018, 08:17:32 PM
Week one the play calling and clock management at the end were what lost the game.  He and his team controlled that element, not whether an interception was caught.  That was on Nagy, and many of the city's sportswriters called him on it.  He has been very successful, that doesn't mean he hasn't made some considerable blunders. It was like watching Kyle Shanihan against the Patriots in the SB.  Atrocious play calling, equally bad clock management game one.  Never should have lost that game or the Dolphins game.  Giants game was another, but with with a backup QB you let that one slide.

He has done very good things with this team, who already had a lot of talent.  The question is whether some of his stupid decisions will ultimately hurt them. Is there enough good to overcome the bad?

No need for the personal attack name calling.

Nagy is the head coach of a team that radically outperformed expectations this year. He'll probably be the NFL coach of the year in his first year as a head coach. And according to you, he's an idiot.

Wojo has (depending on your appetite for kool aid) slightly underperformed, met or slightly exceeded expectations over 4+ years. Not only is he not an idiot, you consistently defend him against even the mildest of criticisms.

Wojo is expected to win maybe 21 regular season games this year. If he wins 33 he outperform to approximately the same degree as Nagy. If somebody here calls him an idiot after doing that I'll call him a lot worse than a putz.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 16, 2018, 09:19:28 PM
I’ll happily take a re-match with this Rams team in the Divisional Round. They’ve fallen off a cliff.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 16, 2018, 11:36:57 PM
Nagy gave the Packers the win in week 1.  He's trying to repeat it today.  This coach should have his team with 1 loss this year, but his inane decisions have saddled them with some L's.  Fake punt up 14-6?  What an idiot.

Remember when Sean Payton opened the second half of the SB with an onside kick? It worked, so he was a genius. If the Colts had recovered, he'd have been an idiot.

This is true of pretty much every trick play in football history. Fake punt works = genius. Fake punt fails = idiot. Flea-flicker works = genius. Flea-flicker fails = idiot. Etc, etc, etc.

Nagy's done OK.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: barfolomew on December 17, 2018, 02:22:15 PM
I just like this picture:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-bears-10-thoughts-packers-nfc-north-brad-biggs-20181217-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-bears-10-thoughts-packers-nfc-north-brad-biggs-20181217-story.html)

because it looks like DB Kevin Toliver (#22) is carrying an unnamed teammate in one arm.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 17, 2018, 03:55:10 PM
Remember when Sean Payton opened the second half of the SB with an onside kick? It worked, so he was a genius. If the Colts had recovered, he'd have been an idiot.

This is true of pretty much every trick play in football history. Fake punt works = genius. Fake punt fails = idiot. Flea-flicker works = genius. Flea-flicker fails = idiot. Etc, etc, etc.

Nagy's done OK.

I thought Nagy tried to give the game away as well. Against a decent team, his moves probably would have cost the game.

I have no problem going on 4th and 2 from midfield, but let the offense do it. THEY practice offense.

On the 2nd one, Nagy again took the ball out of Trubisky’s hands. Two 4th down attempts and he did not allow Trubisky to touch the ball.

I’m not smart enough to know why - but something is driving the decision to get the ball out of Mitch’s hands on 4th down.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on December 17, 2018, 04:22:51 PM
Nope never wanted him at PSU. Have heard some shady stories from recruits over the years and he is not a good coach, benefits from a bad division in the Big 10

I don't know about your shady stories, but not a good coach? He arguably does more with less than any other coach in the nation.
Easy to say he benefits from a bad division, and yet his teams are consistently as good or better than Nebraska and Iowa, which play in the same division and have more to work with, and are way better than the likes of Minnesota, Purdue and Illinois.
I'm really interested in what more you expect at a place like Northwestern beyond consistently finishing in the upper half of a power conference.
Also, bad coach was just unanimously voted Big 10 coach of the year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 17, 2018, 10:25:13 PM
RIP to the Ron Rivera era in Carolina. What a train wreck since mid season.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on December 17, 2018, 11:16:48 PM
I still haven't been able to decide if cam is hurt or bad
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on December 18, 2018, 09:52:01 AM
I still haven't been able to decide if cam is hurt or bad

He's absolutely hurt.  Not that he was playing well regardless, but his shoulder was clearly not right when you look at how labored he looked with a lot of his throws.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 18, 2018, 10:45:42 AM
He's absolutely hurt.  Not that he was playing well regardless, but his shoulder was clearly not right when you look at how labored he looked with a lot of his throws.

He’s for sure hurt, but he also exasperated things with his poor blitz pick up decisions and reads. His decision making last night was no bueno.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on December 18, 2018, 01:19:02 PM
He’s for sure hurt, but he also exasperated things with his poor blitz pick up decisions and reads. His decision making last night was no bueno.

100%. I like Cam, but he seems to get frustrated quickly and then things fall apart. Last night was a prime example
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 18, 2018, 10:55:36 PM
I still haven't been able to decide if cam is hurt or bad

He was playing as well as almost any QB in the league through the first half of the season. He has trouble throwing the ball 15 yards now. Totally gutting it out.

I did not sense that he was any more frustrated than Rodgers or Brady or other fine QBs when their teammates aren't doing their jobs.

But I definitely will agree that he made a couple of poor decisions in this game. Of course, so did Brees, who was picked twice and could have been intercepted 3 or 4 more times.

Rivera's clock-management sucked, too. The Panthers have a terrible 2-minute drill all season. Some is on Cam, some is probably on other offensive players. Some might be on Norv Turner. But it's Rivera's team.

For a Panthers fan like me, this season was a shame, because I really thought we had the talent to make some noise. Future looks kind of murky.

On another subject ...

Saints suddenly look very beatable in the playoffs. Three weeks in a row their world-class offense did little. But it looks like they will have home-field, so that will be huge for them.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on December 19, 2018, 11:31:58 AM
He was playing as well as almost any QB in the league through the first half of the season. He has trouble throwing the ball 15 yards now. Totally gutting it out.

I did not sense that he was any more frustrated than Rodgers or Brady or other fine QBs when their teammates aren't doing their jobs.

But I definitely will agree that he made a couple of poor decisions in this game. Of course, so did Brees, who was picked twice and could have been intercepted 3 or 4 more times.

Rivera's clock-management sucked, too. The Panthers have a terrible 2-minute drill all season. Some is on Cam, some is probably on other offensive players. Some might be on Norv Turner. But it's Rivera's team.

For a Panthers fan like me, this season was a shame, because I really thought we had the talent to make some noise. Future looks kind of murky.

On another subject ...

Saints suddenly look very beatable in the playoffs. Three weeks in a row their world-class offense did little. But it looks like they will have home-field, so that will be huge for them.

And Rams
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on December 19, 2018, 12:00:56 PM
For a Panthers fan like me, this season was a shame, because I really thought we had the talent to make some noise. Future looks kind of murky.

The defense collapsed. Poor play frankly all season on both the DL and in the secondary. Cam's play was covering that up early in the season.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 19, 2018, 03:24:36 PM
The defense collapsed. Poor play frankly all season on both the DL and in the secondary. Cam's play was covering that up early in the season.

Agreed. People think of the Panthers as a defensive team, but the D sucked this season, even in many of the wins. Even Kuechly didn't have his usual great season, though he played very well the last couple of weeks. D-line was the biggest disappointment on the entire team for me. Lots of money went into it, and players underperformed. That put a lot of pressure on a secondary that was never gonna be great.

BTW, looks like Cam is going to sit out the final 2 games, which makes sense. Kind of like the Rodgers situation last year -- why play him in meaningless games?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 20, 2018, 05:02:32 PM
A real shame about Josh Gordon.

There is a belief that the Patriots can fix anybody, but an addict is an addict.

I hope the young man eventually can straighten out his life.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on December 20, 2018, 05:37:32 PM
A real shame about Josh Gordon.

There is a belief that the Patriots can fix anybody, but an addict is an addict.

I hope the young man eventually can straighten out his life.

Beyond that, he's been dealing with mental health issues for a long time.  Its really easy for people to pass judgement and distill it down to "why cant someone lay off weed to make millions of dollars" without comprehending or understanding the link between mental health/illness/anxiety and substance abuse.  It could have been as simple as him having an anxiety attack (as he came out about before training camp last year), sparking a joint to relax, and thats that.  Its not always some wild bender like people envision.

He seemed to be putting it together this year, but there is a lot more to life than football, so hopefully he can continue to get the help he needs and get to a sustainable place in the future.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on December 20, 2018, 09:15:51 PM
Beyond that, he's been dealing with mental health issues for a long time.  Its really easy for people to pass judgement and distill it down to "why cant someone lay off weed to make millions of dollars" without comprehending or understanding the link between mental health/illness/anxiety and substance abuse.  It could have been as simple as him having an anxiety attack (as he came out about before training camp last year), sparking a joint to relax, and thats that.  Its not always some wild bender like people envision.

He seemed to be putting it together this year, but there is a lot more to life than football, so hopefully he can continue to get the help he needs and get to a sustainable place in the future.


I'm glad to see that people are finally realizing what addiction really is (not implying that you are a new convert).

I felt the same way back in the days of Strawberry and Gooden. But back then, there was little sympathy for the disease.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 20, 2018, 09:41:24 PM

I'm glad to see that people are finally realizing what addiction really is (not implying that you are a new convert).

I felt the same way back in the days of Strawberry and Gooden. But back then, there was little sympathy for the disease.

Spot on Brandi.

Easy to judge folks but much of our judgements are based on incomplete or even inaccurate information. I'm trying to shake the judgement habit (I know it's bad for us) but fail more often than not.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on December 21, 2018, 07:45:38 AM
Tying in with the current discussion in the Doom thread.  Addiction sucks.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Sir Lawrence on December 22, 2018, 09:12:34 PM
NFL history.  On this day in 2003 Favre had a game.  4 TD’s.  399 yds.  Day after his pappy passed.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 23, 2018, 03:37:06 PM
It’s weird to me how much better the Eagles offense is with Foles instead of Wentz.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 23, 2018, 03:52:48 PM
That’s a brutal Packer win.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on December 23, 2018, 05:01:51 PM
It’s weird to me how much better the Eagles offense is with Foles instead of Wentz.

And one of the nicest guys you will ever meet.  Tremendous
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 23, 2018, 06:13:23 PM
Christ alive the Bears try to kill me.

Mike if the Saints end up losing this game y’all better make up for last weeks debacle...
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 23, 2018, 06:52:44 PM
Effing Steelers.

New Orleans has the biggest of horseshoes stuck up their ass.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 23, 2018, 07:24:20 PM
NFL is gonna have some interesting decisions to make regarding start times next Sunday. Bears/Vikes should be moved to 3pm window, to coincide with Rams game. Probably have to move Eagles/Washington to that same time window then too.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 23, 2018, 07:51:09 PM
Looks like all the right timing calls were made.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 24, 2018, 11:46:38 AM
So what are we thinking Bears fans?

Obviously would like the bye, but I’d much rather take my chances with BDN and the Eagles instead of playing the Vikings for a 3rd time.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on December 24, 2018, 02:31:27 PM
So what are we thinking Bears fans?

Obviously would like the bye, but I’d much rather take my chances with BDN and the Eagles instead of playing the Vikings for a 3rd time.

The bye is a long shot.

I'd rather rest everyone and play an extra playoff game with a healthy, rested roster.

But, I'm onboard with whatever decision the coaching staff makes.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 24, 2018, 02:37:11 PM
The playoffs are gonna be a b*tch no matter who they play. Playing the Vikes a third time and in back to back weeks doesn’t sound fun, but the advantage lies in being at home, and they accomplished that. I’d play everyone the first half on Sunday. Mitch needs reps, if they make it totally vanilla of a game plan on both sides, I’m totally fine with that. I do think they should absolutely scoreboard watch. If the Rams or up or down at half, that should dictate what they do in the second half.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: barfolomew on December 24, 2018, 02:52:46 PM
So what are we thinking Bears fans?

Obviously would like the bye, but I’d much rather take my chances with BDN and the Eagles instead of playing the Vikings for a 3rd time.

I think you sit A-Rob (dinged up in SF), Hicks (same), Eddie Jackson, and Mack for this one.
Limit Cohen and, like Dish said, see what the Rams are doing to determine what you do with Trubisky.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: dgies9156 on December 24, 2018, 04:51:05 PM
The playoffs are gonna be a b*tch no matter who they play. Playing the Vikes a third time and in back to back weeks doesn’t sound fun, but the advantage lies in being at home, and they accomplished that.

This Bear season ticket holder is excited about coming back from his winter hibernation in Florida for the playoffs.

Can hardly wait
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on December 24, 2018, 08:55:01 PM
This Bear season ticket holder is excited about coming back from his winter hibernation in Florida for the playoffs.

Can hardly wait

Got an extra ticket for a fellow alum?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on December 30, 2018, 02:20:35 PM
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25645369/green-bay-packers-expected-request-head-coaching-interview-northwestern-pat-fitzgerald
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 30, 2018, 03:57:11 PM
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25645369/green-bay-packers-expected-request-head-coaching-interview-northwestern-pat-fitzgerald

Eff off Packers.

Again mixed emotions because Northwestern is not a destination job and there’s not many people who can have the success Fitz has had there.

Buuuut, seeing the Packers suck for the next couple of years would be a nice bonus for that outcome.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 30, 2018, 04:10:27 PM
I’d happily take this Vikes team again next weekend. Must win game for them, and they have been brutal today.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 30, 2018, 04:38:37 PM
My sources are telling me that McCarthy ain’t going to Cleveland and pat fitzgerald is the front runner to be the next head coach in title town.

  Ahemmm!!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 30, 2018, 04:44:40 PM
Yeah it looks as though you were onto something rocket.

I really don't have an opinion either way. There have been so many good coordinators who have been absolute failures as a head coach, that I have no idea who would or would not be a good coach.

It all depends on who he can bring in to run the offense and defense.  If he can convince Murphy and Gute that he has a plan, then he's as good as anyone else I guess.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 30, 2018, 04:59:26 PM
Bears should do everything possible to lay down in the second half and let Minnesota win.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 30, 2018, 05:06:45 PM
Bears should do everything possible to lay down in the second half and let Minnesota win.

The last time the Bears had the NFC North wrapped up and had an opportunity to prevent a second NFC North team from making the Playoffs in week 17 that second NFC North team knocked the Bears out of the Playoffs on the way to their Super Bowl.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 30, 2018, 05:16:51 PM
Bears should do everything possible to lay down in the second half and let Minnesota win.

Disagree. Just play football.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 30, 2018, 05:28:21 PM
The last time the Bears had the NFC North wrapped up and had an opportunity to prevent a second NFC North team from making the Playoffs in week 17 that second NFC North team knocked the Bears out of the Playoffs on the way to their Super Bowl.

So what?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 30, 2018, 06:25:42 PM
Utterly embarrassing by Vikings.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 30, 2018, 06:26:27 PM
SKOL:

Norse for "choke."

Only 51 years away from pulling a "cubbie."
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 30, 2018, 06:30:23 PM
Vikes will be Vikes....
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 30, 2018, 06:32:03 PM
Utterly embarrassing by Vikings.


Giving Cousins that contract is a fireable offense.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 30, 2018, 06:35:15 PM
The last time the Bears had the NFC North wrapped up and had an opportunity to prevent a second NFC North team from making the Playoffs in week 17 that second NFC North team knocked the Bears out of the Playoffs on the way to their Super Bowl.

So were you predicting that if the Vikings beat the Bears they would then win the Super Bowl or were you just being a dick?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 30, 2018, 06:52:13 PM
I have been told Eagles/Bears is the Sunday noon game on Fox.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 30, 2018, 07:07:29 PM
So were you predicting that if the Vikings beat the Bears they would then win the Super Bowl or were you just being a dick?

Or just stating a fact.

Looks like a touchy subject for someone though. Sorry!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 30, 2018, 07:21:02 PM
Or just stating a fact.

Looks like a touchy subject for someone though. Sorry!

Good point. It is a fact. But given your past history putting down all things Chicago (an aside, I hate the Cubs, too) I'm going with both b.(being a dick) and c.(stating a fact).

For example, given my history, if I were to say that TC was an abject failure in the NCAAs at MU outside of D Wade's junior year I would be stating a fact but also being a dick.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 30, 2018, 07:24:07 PM
Or maybe the point is that not putting away opponents when you can, especially when you have already played them twice, can have bad consequences.

That being said, this Vikings team was nowhere near the caliber of the 2010 Packer team. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 30, 2018, 07:32:22 PM
That Viking team today got pummeled at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. Even having played them twice, I sincerely doubt the Vikes would have fixed those problems in a week. The Bears handled them at the line their first meeting as well. Quite simply, between that and their QB, I’d have taken round 3 with them next Sunday in a heartbeat.

If they couldn’t come out to play at home today, with the Bears resting some guys, and resting more as the second half went on, then I wouldn’t have expected much from them next weekend.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 30, 2018, 07:44:56 PM
Eh, Philly may be on their third string QB.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: dgies9156 on December 30, 2018, 08:04:37 PM
I give the Bears all the credit in the world.

When the Rams went to halftime leading the 49ers 18 gazillion to nothing, they could have come out in the second half, pulled the starting offense and gotten ready for next week.

Instead, the Bears respected their fans. They played to win. Sure, late in the 4th, the second string defense played (and distinguished themselves, I might add). But it was clear this was not a lay-down. The Bears gave their fans a treat. They won and they played their best.

Thank you, Bears, for respecting those of us who watch you week in and week out.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on December 30, 2018, 08:12:21 PM
Bears play Sunday late afternoon start.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 30, 2018, 08:16:00 PM
Bears play Sunday late afternoon start.

Saw that too, really odd as I had heard noon from multiple people. Why the NFL is having the Chargers play early makes no sense.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on December 30, 2018, 08:18:11 PM
Saw that too, really odd as I had heard noon from multiple people. Why the NFL is having the Chargers play early makes no sense.

Surprising to see it on NBC as well.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on December 30, 2018, 08:21:02 PM
Surprising to see it on NBC as well.

Chargers should be pissed. That Chargers/Ravens game was going to be on Sunday, I can’t believe they are playing that game early.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on December 30, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Or maybe the point is that not putting away opponents when you can, especially when you have already played them twice, can have bad consequences.

That being said, this Vikings team was nowhere near the caliber of the 2010 Packer team.

Somebody gets it.

Others are triggered.

But yes the Vikings do not have an all time great QB playing at his best. But you just never know. I’m of the opinion that you never, ever lay down for a team because you think it gives you a more favorable matchup. You’re the higher seed for a reason, I’d much rather go into the Playoffs hot than thinking I got a better matchup.

But maybe I’m just a dick.  :)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on December 30, 2018, 08:24:55 PM
Wild Card Schedule:

Saturday:
3:35p CT: Colts/Titans at Texans (ESPN/ABC)
7:15p CT: Seahawks at Cowboys (FOX)

Sunday
12:05p CT: Chargers at Ravens (CBS)
3:40p CT: Eagles at Bears (NBC)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on December 30, 2018, 08:27:49 PM
Vikings missed Fg’s in week 2.....


#FGsNoMatta

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on December 30, 2018, 08:37:45 PM
Chargers should be pissed. That Chargers/Ravens game was going to be on Sunday, I can’t believe they are playing that game early.

I went to the Chargers Ravens game here last week...if LA hadn’t laid such an egg they wouldn’t be in this situation.

Pats or Ravens in SB

Hope not true, but every SB I have been fortunate to attend but one had one of those two AFC teams and I’m guessing the same again...don’t trust KC to get there.  Chargers are a mess.  Would love it if Indy did as Luck is one of our guy and a great dude, but don’t see it. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on December 30, 2018, 08:42:32 PM
Somebody gets it.

Others are triggered.

But yes the Vikings do not have an all time great QB playing at his best. But you just never know. I’m of the opinion that you never, ever lay down for a team because you think it gives you a more favorable matchup. You’re the higher seed for a reason, I’d much rather go into the Playoffs hot than thinking I got a better matchup.

But maybe I’m just a dick.  :)

The way the Vikings played,  I'm confident the Bears' backups would have won anyway.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 30, 2018, 08:56:07 PM
Chargers should be pissed. That Chargers/Ravens game was going to be on Sunday, I can’t believe they are playing that game early.


West Coast wild cards have played early before.  Seattle won at Minnesota a couple years ago.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 30, 2018, 09:20:37 PM
I give the Bears all the credit in the world.

When the Rams went to halftime leading the 49ers 18 gazillion to nothing, they could have come out in the second half, pulled the starting offense and gotten ready for next week.

Instead, the Bears respected their fans. They played to win. Sure, late in the 4th, the second string defense played (and distinguished themselves, I might add). But it was clear this was not a lay-down. The Bears gave their fans a treat. They won and they played their best.

Thank you, Bears, for respecting those of us who watch you week in and week out.

I am not a Bears fan. Not even close. But I very much respected the way Nagy approached this game, and I think I would have done the same.

On a related note ...

I was surprised by Nagy's decision to go for 2 after TD that gave Bears 19-10 lead.

You get the PAT, you're up 10 and it takes a TD and FG to tie you; if you don't get the 2, a TD and FG beats you.

Plus, as we saw in the Panthers game a couple weeks ago, you get a 2-pt pass picked off and returned the other way, it's 2 points for your opponent and all of a sudden you're only up 7 and they get the ball. That's obviously unlikely to happen, but it still seemed a very curious decision to go for 2. The "chart" certainly doesn't support it there.

Maybe Nagy has that little confidence in his kicker (and seemingly for good reason). If you don't trust him to kick a PAT, he shouldn't be your kicker.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on December 30, 2018, 09:22:43 PM
I am not a Bears fan. Not even close. But I very much respected the way Nagy approached this game, and I think I would have done the same.

On a related note ...

I was surprised by Nagy's decision to go for 2 after TD that gave Bears 19-10 lead.

You get the PAT, you're up 10 and it takes a TD and FG to tie you; if you don't get the 2, a TD and FG beats you.

Plus, as we saw in the Panthers game a couple weeks ago, you get a 2-pt pass picked off and returned the other way, it's 2 points for your opponent and all of a sudden you're only up 7 and they get the ball. That's obviously unlikely to happen, but it still seemed a very curious decision to go for 2. The "chart" certainly doesn't support it there.

Maybe Nagy has that little confidence in his kicker (and seemingly for good reason). If you don't trust him to kick a PAT, he shouldn't be your kicker.


One thing Aikman said was that it lessened the chance for a tie.  Which is interesting, but I don't know if that's what drove that decision.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 30, 2018, 09:25:24 PM

One thing Aikman said was that it lessened the chance for a tie.  Which is interesting, but I don't know if that's what drove that decision.

I didn't hear Aikman say it; musta stepped out of the room.

I suppose that's true, but I still find it curious. I'd love to hear Nagy explain -- maybe he'll back up exactly what Aikman said.

Ends up being no big deal, anyway, as Bears got the 2 and the Vikings were in Full Choke Mode.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: buckchuckler on December 30, 2018, 11:46:58 PM
I didn't hear Aikman say it; musta stepped out of the room.

I suppose that's true, but I still find it curious. I'd love to hear Nagy explain -- maybe he'll back up exactly what Aikman said.

Ends up being no big deal, anyway, as Bears got the 2 and the Vikings were in Full Choke Mode.

Bears went for 2 a lot this season.  Just a part of his strategy.  Having a kicker that misses PATs is maybe a little extra motivation there as well.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 31, 2018, 12:02:10 AM
Bears went for 2 a lot this season.  Just a part of his strategy.  Having a kicker that misses PATs is maybe a little extra motivation there as well.

OK thanks, buck. I'm not a Bears fan and haven't followed them closely. Really impressed with what I saw today and obviously will be watching from here on out.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU B2002 on December 31, 2018, 08:27:05 AM
Bears went for 2 a lot this season.  Just a part of his strategy.  Having a kicker that misses PATs is maybe a little extra motivation there as well.
[/quote

Yea, Cody barely made his first and doinked his second PAT yesterday. I didn't think he would get another chance to kick.  I expect to see them going for two a lot more... 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: nyg on December 31, 2018, 09:32:18 AM
Coaches going down like flies.

Dolphins
Broncos
Bengals
Jets
Bucs
Packers
Browns

Probably Cardinals next, leaving Redskins only other possibility.

Thats 8 possible firings.  Anyone know what the record is for number of coaches fired in a year?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on December 31, 2018, 09:44:11 AM
Raiders hiring of Mike Mayock as GM is interesting. Though more likely he's just going to be the guy who runs the draft.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on December 31, 2018, 09:49:48 AM
Coaches going down like flies.

Dolphins
Broncos
Bengals
Jets
Bucs
Packers
Browns

Probably Cardinals next, leaving Redskins only other possibility.

Thats 8 possible firings.  Anyone know what the record is for number of coaches fired in a year?

There were seven new head coaches in 2016 and 2018. Eight in 2013 and 2011.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on December 31, 2018, 11:27:12 AM
Rivera escaped the ax this time, but will be on the hot seat in 2019.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on December 31, 2018, 09:34:04 PM
I didn't hear Aikman say it; musta stepped out of the room.

I suppose that's true, but I still find it curious. I'd love to hear Nagy explain -- maybe he'll back up exactly what Aikman said.

Ends up being no big deal, anyway, as Bears got the 2 and the Vikings were in Full Choke Mode.

Did they choke or just get their asses kicked by a better team?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 01, 2019, 03:31:24 PM
Did they choke or just get their asses kicked by a better team?

Can't both be true?

The Vikings are pretty bad if the Bears' second-string is better than they are.

Chokin' Cousins had several meltdowns on the sidelines, screaming at his receivers, pouting, throwing things. If Cam Newton had acted like that, there'd be calls to ban him from the NFL.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: real chili 83 on January 01, 2019, 03:37:09 PM
Can't both be true?

The Vikings are pretty bad if the Bears' second-string is better than they are.

Chokin' Cousins had several meltdowns on the sidelines, screaming at his receivers, pouting, throwing things. If Cam Newton had acted like that, there'd be calls to ban him from the NFL.

#facepalm
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 01, 2019, 03:47:23 PM

Chokin' Cousins had several meltdowns on the sidelines, screaming at his receivers, pouting, throwing things. If Cam Newton had acted like that, there'd be calls to ban him from the NFL.

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/8cdfoJuYuz2u27DAAO/200.webp?cid=3640f6095c2bdf626635693673d69929)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 01, 2019, 03:59:37 PM
Can't both be true?

The Vikings are pretty bad if the Bears' second-string is better than they are.

Chokin' Cousins had several meltdowns on the sidelines, screaming at his receivers, pouting, throwing things. If Cam Newton had acted like that, there'd be calls to ban him from the NFL.




No biggie, doe. Adidas could always higher his heine, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 01, 2019, 04:42:06 PM



No biggie, doe. Adidas could always higher his heine, hey?

Huh?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on January 01, 2019, 04:53:27 PM
Cooter Watch 2019

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001006864/article/detroit-lions-part-ways-with-oc-jim-bob-cooter  (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001006864/article/detroit-lions-part-ways-with-oc-jim-bob-cooter)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on January 01, 2019, 05:07:15 PM
Had to happen.  Offenses don't get to regress that much without consequences.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 03, 2019, 01:24:18 PM
I think the two best games this weekend are the Saturday games, and I can see both road teams winning. I believe both those games will be close. I think the two Sunday games, the home teams both win by double digits.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 03, 2019, 02:29:06 PM
I think the two best games this weekend are the Saturday games, and I can see both road teams winning. I believe both those games will be close. I think the two Sunday games, the home teams both win by double digits.

People have lost a lot of money the last 14 months underestimating Nick Foles. And the Eagles have one of the best O-lines in the league, which could neutralize what's been the Bears' primary advantage on opponents this season (i.e. their front seven).
The Bears certainly could win, but I'd be surprised if it's by double digits.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 03, 2019, 03:55:04 PM
People have lost a lot of money the last 14 months underestimating Nick Foles. And the Eagles have one of the best O-lines in the league, which could neutralize what's been the Bears' primary advantage on opponents this season (i.e. their front seven).
The Bears certainly could win, but I'd be surprised if it's by double digits.

I said on here not too long ago they seem to just be a much better functioning team with Foles on offense. Two things however have stuck out with the Eagles the entire season that they haven't been able to fix. Being one dimensional against the Bears is going to be costly at some point on Sunday. Eagles are 28th in rushing, and second worst rush per attempt at 3.9. That's not a good recipe to go on the road and beat a team like the Bears.

Their second issue is they've been brutal covering RB's out of the backfield and have gotten burned repeatedly this year.

As examples:

McCaffrey 6/51
Yeldon 7/83
Elliott 6/36
Elliott 12/79
Barkley 7/41/1
Kamara 1/37/1
Barkley 9/99

I expect Cohen to have a big game, if the Bears don't gameplan and utilize him repeatedly, quite frankly they would deserve to lose then. If Mitch sucks and throws a couple early picks, they'll lose. I think Nagy has hopefully learned from his errors in last year's wild card round against Tennessee and from the Green Bay game. I'm not saying the Eagles are a push over, but I can see a 27-17 Bears win on Sunday, based on what I see from a matchup perspective.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 03, 2019, 04:58:48 PM
I said on here not too long ago they seem to just be a much better functioning team with Foles on offense. Two things however have stuck out with the Eagles the entire season that they haven't been able to fix. Being one dimensional against the Bears is going to be costly at some point on Sunday. Eagles are 28th in rushing, and second worst rush per attempt at 3.9. That's not a good recipe to go on the road and beat a team like the Bears.

Their second issue is they've been brutal covering RB's out of the backfield and have gotten burned repeatedly this year.

As examples:

McCaffrey 6/51
Yeldon 7/83
Elliott 6/36
Elliott 12/79
Barkley 7/41/1
Kamara 1/37/1
Barkley 9/99
I expect Cohen to have a big game, if the Bears don't gameplan and utilize him repeatedly, quite frankly they would deserve to lose then. If Mitch sucks and throws a couple early picks, they'll lose. I think Nagy has hopefully learned from his errors in last year's wild card round against Tennessee and from the Green Bay game. I'm not saying the Eagles are a push over, but I can see a 27-17 Bears win on Sunday, based on what I see from a matchup perspective.

I have a few quibbles, but this is all fair.
I just think that when facing a team that's gone 10-1 under its current QB the past two seasons, expecting a double-digit win may be overconfident.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 03, 2019, 11:39:56 PM
I have a few quibbles, but this is all fair.
I just think that when facing a team that's gone 10-1 under its current QB the past two seasons, expecting a double-digit win may be overconfident.

In weeks 10-15, the Eagles run defense surrendered 5.76 yds per carrry. Week 16 Houston was without Lamar Miller, and Week 17 was against a dead Washington team. Most of Philadelphia’s losses had a common theme, coming against mobile/dual threat QB’s. Trubisky finished overall fifth in QB rush yds, second in yards per attempt.

As I showed above, they were fourth worst in the NFL at allowing receptions to backs. Cohen was third among RB’s in receptions.

I think they are arbitrary milestone numbers, but at home the Bears didn’t allow a 300 yard passer (Brady, Rodgers, Goff, Wilson) nor a 100 yard rusher (Gurley, Carson). Only one TE went above 50 yards against the Bears this year (Kittle for 74).

I’d like to be more nervous about this game, and football can certainly happen and flip this game quick. Every data point I study going into Sunday’s game points favorably for Chicago. If I’m wrong, so be it.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: withoutbias on January 04, 2019, 05:54:52 AM
In weeks 10-15, the Eagles run defense surrendered 5.76 yds per carrry. Week 16 Houston was without Lamar Miller, and Week 17 was against a dead Washington team. Most of Philadelphia’s losses had a common theme, coming against mobile/dual threat QB’s. Trubisky finished overall fifth in QB rush yds, second in yards per attempt.

As I showed above, they were fourth worst in the NFL at allowing receptions to backs. Cohen was third among RB’s in receptions.

I think they are arbitrary milestone numbers, but at home the Bears didn’t allow a 300 yard passer (Brady, Rodgers, Goff, Wilson) nor a 100 yard rusher (Gurley, Carson). Only one TE went above 50 yards against the Bears this year (Kittle for 74).

I’d like to be more nervous about this game, and football can certainly happen and flip this game quick. Every data point I study going into Sunday’s game points favorably for Chicago. If I’m wrong, so be it.

werent you talking about how the bears shouldve laid down last week to let the vikings in and avoid playing an eagles team that is scary with nick foles at qb just a week ago?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 04, 2019, 08:05:21 AM
werent you talking about how the bears shouldve laid down last week to let the vikings in and avoid playing an eagles team that is scary with nick foles at qb just a week ago?

Nope, reading comprehension would be helpful here from what I wrote.

I would absolutely have laid down to play the Vikes again, and said nothing of Foles/Eagles in that context. Would I rather play a division opponent that seemingly quit and the Bears beat up twice and showed little to no interest in showing up in their biggest game of the year? Of course.

I can think that and study the Eagles and come to the conclusion the Bears are better than them as well.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on January 04, 2019, 09:16:53 AM
Should be one of the better WC weekends in recent memory - all games shapping up to be close ones.

I think the Bears have the easiest time. Yes, the Eagles have momentum and have "been there" but let's remember that Wentz got them home field advantage before getting hurt last year.

This is a very different team, and doesn't have same feel as the 2010 Packers who were among preseason favorites before being battered by injury (and still had to limp into the playoffs against the Bears week 17).

I think the Eagles keep it close, but it's going to take a great playcalling effort by Pederson to pull off an upset. Using their smaller backs in the Cohen/James White mold could be a mechanism to get Agholor or Jeffries room in the middle of field and keep the Bears pass rush even remotely in check
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: barfolomew on January 04, 2019, 10:22:59 AM
Should be one of the better WC weekends in recent memory - all games shapping up to be close ones.

I think the Bears have the easiest time. Yes, the Eagles have momentum and have "been there" but let's remember that Wentz got them home field advantage before getting hurt last year.

This is a very different team, and doesn't have same feel as the 2010 Packers who were among preseason favorites before being battered by injury (and still had to limp into the playoffs against the Bears week 17).

I think the Eagles keep it close, but it's going to take a great playcalling effort by Pederson to pull off an upset. Using their smaller backs in the Cohen/James White mold could be a mechanism to get Agholor or Jeffries room in the middle of field and keep the Bears pass rush even remotely in check

I mostly agree with Dish and you on this.
Eagles will need to be at least +2 on turnovers to have a shot.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 04, 2019, 10:30:02 AM
I'm a big fan of Christian McCaffrey. I expected him to be good, and he's been far better than good for the Panthers.

I also backed his decision (and similar decisions by others) to skip Stanford's meaningless bowl game so he could stay healthy and prepare for his NFL career.

But now he says that if he's invited to play in the Pro Bowl -- he's an alternate, but a couple ahead of him are in the playoffs -- "I wouldn't turn that down."

What? Compared to the Pro Bowl -- the exhibition of all exhibition games -- Stanford's bowl game decided the fate of the universe.

Seems a bit hypocritical of me to abandon one's college teammates because he didn't want to get hurt but now to play with a bunch of relative strangers in the worst all-star game in all of sports.

And yes, players have gotten seriously injured in the Pro Bowl.

As a fan of the Panthers but not of hypocrisy, I wish he wouldn't play in it.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 04, 2019, 11:36:28 AM
I'm a big fan of Christian McCaffrey. I expected him to be good, and he's been far better than good for the Panthers.

I also backed his decision (and similar decisions by others) to skip Stanford's meaningless bowl game so he could stay healthy and prepare for his NFL career.

But now he says that if he's invited to play in the Pro Bowl -- he's an alternate, but a couple ahead of him are in the playoffs -- "I wouldn't turn that down."

What? Compared to the Pro Bowl -- the exhibition of all exhibition games -- Stanford's bowl game decided the fate of the universe.

Seems a bit hypocritical of me to abandon one's college teammates because he didn't want to get hurt but now to play with a bunch of relative strangers in the worst all-star game in all of sports.

And yes, players have gotten seriously injured in the Pro Bowl.

As a fan of the Panthers but not of hypocrisy, I wish he wouldn't play in it.

I don't find it hypocritical at all. In the risk/reward equation, there was WAY more to lose in a bowl game than the Pro Bowl.  He was the high draft pick and got the fat NFL contract.  He's also proven himself as a top level NFL RB.  Short of a Joe Theismann leg explosion, any injury at the Pro Bowl would have an entire offseason to rehab and heal.  No combine or workouts or anything else to miss and harm your value like the bowl.  Also, injuries have happened in the Pro Bowl, but the intensity of hitting and tackling is vastly lower than a bowl game.  Players have gotten seriously injured in helmets and shorts no pad workouts too.

If this was his second or third Pro Bowl, I can understand the argument potentially, but who knows if he would get a chance to be a Pro Bowler and experience it again.  The Pro Bowl sucks, no argument there, but I can see the appeal of the honor and experiencing it for the first time, especially as a young player
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on January 04, 2019, 11:40:19 AM
There are plenty of injuries besides a Joe Theismann leg explosion that would cause him to miss games in the fall.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on January 04, 2019, 11:49:43 AM
I'm a big fan of Christian McCaffrey. I expected him to be good, and he's been far better than good for the Panthers.

I also backed his decision (and similar decisions by others) to skip Stanford's meaningless bowl game so he could stay healthy and prepare for his NFL career.

But now he says that if he's invited to play in the Pro Bowl -- he's an alternate, but a couple ahead of him are in the playoffs -- "I wouldn't turn that down."

What? Compared to the Pro Bowl -- the exhibition of all exhibition games -- Stanford's bowl game decided the fate of the universe.

Seems a bit hypocritical of me to abandon one's college teammates because he didn't want to get hurt but now to play with a bunch of relative strangers in the worst all-star game in all of sports.

And yes, players have gotten seriously injured in the Pro Bowl.

As a fan of the Panthers but not of hypocrisy, I wish he wouldn't play in it.

Is there an incentive in his contract that pays him extra for making the Pro Bowl? I know rookie contracts are pretty standard/boilerplate, but just a thought.

If so, it would make the decision tree a lot different than it was for the bowl game.

If not, forget I said anything!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 04, 2019, 11:56:19 AM
I know of no Pro Bowl incentive -- I'm no insider, and it hasn't been mentioned in any article about him -- and I do think he's got a standard rookie contract -- whatever it was "slotted" to be for a player picked 8th overall in 2017.

I do know that like just about every pro football player except the most elite QBs, he is expendable and disposable, just the way the NFL likes its players to be.

Now, it's true that he isn't playing for an NFL job, per se, but as Waldo says, he certainly could suffer the kind of injury that could sideline him for an extended period of time. Dolphins safety Dick Anderson -- the best in the NFL in the early-70s -- blew out his knee in the Pro Bowl and was never the same player.

It's also true, as JWags says, that the way he would have had to play in a bowl game for Stanford probably would have made him more likely to get hurt in that game.

I certainly might be wrong, but I just can't help but feel it's a little hypocritical of McCaffrey. And as a Panthers fan, I don't want him or Kuechly (who has a history of concussions) or any Panther playing in that wretched game.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on January 04, 2019, 12:12:57 PM
I'm trying to think of the last player to get hurt in any lasting sense other than Tyler Eifert, who might be made of glass, and whose injury seemed to be mismanaged by the Bengals.I'm not counting Brian Moorman (RIP).

As JWags said, the man has made money, and now it's for him to decide the cost/benefit of playing this game. In my book, that calculation was pretty easy at Stanford; they don't pay nearly as well as USC

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on January 04, 2019, 12:22:34 PM
I know of no Pro Bowl incentive -- I'm no insider, and it hasn't been mentioned in any article about him -- and I do think he's got a standard rookie contract -- whatever it was "slotted" to be for a player picked 8th overall in 2017.

I do know that like just about every pro football player except the most elite QBs, he is expendable and disposable, just the way the NFL likes its players to be.

Now, it's true that he isn't playing for an NFL job, per se, but as Waldo says, he certainly could suffer the kind of injury that could sideline him for an extended period of time. Dolphins safety Dick Anderson -- the best in the NFL in the early-70s -- blew out his knee in the Pro Bowl and was never the same player.

It's also true, as JWags says, that the way he would have had to play in a bowl game for Stanford probably would have made him more likely to get hurt in that game.

I certainly might be wrong, but I just can't help but feel it's a little hypocritical of McCaffrey. And as a Panthers fan, I don't want him or Kuechly (who has a history of concussions) or any Panther playing in that wretched game.

Then forget I said anything!

Agreed it's wretched. Wondering why it even exists anymore. Do fans care? Do players care? Does it even make any money? Is it even good for PR?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GGGG on January 04, 2019, 12:29:16 PM
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2018/01/pro-bowl-ratings-highest-four-years/

It's watched.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 04, 2019, 12:30:54 PM
I know of no Pro Bowl incentive -- I'm no insider, and it hasn't been mentioned in any article about him -- and I do think he's got a standard rookie contract -- whatever it was "slotted" to be for a player picked 8th overall in 2017.

I do know that like just about every pro football player except the most elite QBs, he is expendable and disposable, just the way the NFL likes its players to be.

Now, it's true that he isn't playing for an NFL job, per se, but as Waldo says, he certainly could suffer the kind of injury that could sideline him for an extended period of time. Dolphins safety Dick Anderson -- the best in the NFL in the early-70s -- blew out his knee in the Pro Bowl and was never the same player.

It's also true, as JWags says, that the way he would have had to play in a bowl game for Stanford probably would have made him more likely to get hurt in that game.

I certainly might be wrong, but I just can't help but feel it's a little hypocritical of McCaffrey. And as a Panthers fan, I don't want him or Kuechly (who has a history of concussions) or any Panther playing in that wretched game.

No incentives, but his deal is fully guaranteed, which probably helps.

Can't help but think your very clear feelings on the Pro Bowl are coloring your opinion of his decision  8-)  Just think hypocritical is a bit strong given the clearly stated differences in the game risks
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 05, 2019, 11:03:45 AM
At Soldier Field this year, 8 times an opponent started a drive inside Bears territory. Those 8 drives ended in:

1 Touchdown
1 Punt
3 Field Goals
3 Interceptions

At home, they played the 2nd, 4th, 6th, 12th, 14th highest scoring offenses.

The one TD? Detroit.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 05, 2019, 02:50:29 PM
No incentives, but his deal is fully guaranteed, which probably helps.

Can't help but think your very clear feelings on the Pro Bowl are coloring your opinion of his decision  8-)  Just think hypocritical is a bit strong given the clearly stated differences in the game risks

Well, I certainly don't want him to play. I won't watch even a nanosecond of the "game."
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 05, 2019, 11:09:18 PM
Three playoff wins in 20 years.  Now we're cooking with gas!  Go Pokes.  Next week should be the drubbing where we are sent packing, meanwhile the Clapping Ginger stays on our sideline.  Sigh.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: buckchuckler on January 05, 2019, 11:12:19 PM
At Soldier Field this year, 8 times an opponent started a drive inside Bears territory. Those 8 drives ended in:

1 Touchdown
1 Punt
3 Field Goals
3 Interceptions

At home, they played the 2nd, 4th, 6th, 12th, 14th highest scoring offenses.

The one TD? Detroit.

That's hilarious.  Can never predict this stuff.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on January 05, 2019, 11:17:07 PM
I know of no Pro Bowl incentive -- I'm no insider, and it hasn't been mentioned in any article about him -- and I do think he's got a standard rookie contract -- whatever it was "slotted" to be for a player picked 8th overall in 2017.

I do know that like just about every pro football player except the most elite QBs, he is expendable and disposable, just the way the NFL likes its players to be.

Now, it's true that he isn't playing for an NFL job, per se, but as Waldo says, he certainly could suffer the kind of injury that could sideline him for an extended period of time. Dolphins safety Dick Anderson -- the best in the NFL in the early-70s -- blew out his knee in the Pro Bowl and was never the same player.

It's also true, as JWags says, that the way he would have had to play in a bowl game for Stanford probably would have made him more likely to get hurt in that game.

I certainly might be wrong, but I just can't help but feel it's a little hypocritical of McCaffrey. And as a Panthers fan, I don't want him or Kuechly (who has a history of concussions) or any Panther playing in that wretched game.

Hey Mike - since the Panthers decided not to play in the second half of the regular season I see no reason to end their sabbatical for the Pro Bowl!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 05, 2019, 11:31:09 PM
Three playoff wins in 20 years.  Now we're cooking with gas!  Go Pokes.  Next year should be the drubbing where we are sent packing, meanwhile the Clapping Ginger stays on our sideline.  Sigh.

Aren’t you a Cardinals fan?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 06, 2019, 02:40:55 PM
Through almost 3 games this weekend, main headline is some odd coaching decisions.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 06, 2019, 02:49:21 PM
Aren’t you a Cardinals fan?

Cowboys fan, born in Texas, lived in Texas, training camp home was my hometown in Thousand Oaks, CA for many years.

Why on earth would I be a Cardinals fan?  I remember fierce battles with them when they were in the NFC East for many years.   No thanks.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 06, 2019, 04:16:32 PM
Mizzell, 1 rush, 1 target. Cohen, zero/zero. Recipe to lose, and not a good start for Nagy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 06, 2019, 04:58:14 PM
Lack of yards on first down hurting bears offense.

Why Cunningham/mizell over Cohen?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 06, 2019, 05:01:52 PM
Wow.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 06, 2019, 05:04:43 PM
Both of these QBs STIIIIIINK.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 06, 2019, 05:08:04 PM
That was one of the more incompetent replay reviews we’ll ever see.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 06, 2019, 05:08:11 PM
Hey Mike - since the Panthers decided not to play in the second half of the regular season I see no reason to end their sabbatical for the Pro Bowl!

Can't argue with that, Lenny!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 06, 2019, 05:08:42 PM
That was one of the more incompetent replay reviews we’ll ever see.

Yeah, but at least the explanation by the ref also was incompetent.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 06, 2019, 05:40:01 PM
That was one of the more incompetent replay reviews we’ll ever see.

Turns out the call was correct. The lack of explanation for the call was atrocious.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 06, 2019, 05:41:44 PM
Turns out the call was correct. The lack of explanation for the call was atrocious.

Yeah, I saw that just now too. Explanation with better details would have helped a lot.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 06, 2019, 05:44:32 PM
Really thought Nagy would scheme this offense much differently today.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 06, 2019, 06:05:16 PM
Really thought Nagy would scheme this offense much differently today.

Invisible Cohen and absent Burton hurt bigtime
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 06, 2019, 06:05:59 PM
Eagles are well coached and have played outstanding at the line of scrimmage today. Run D has been solid, o line outstanding.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 06, 2019, 06:50:23 PM
Great game, congrats to Philly.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 06, 2019, 06:53:39 PM
My condolences, Bears fans.
That sucks.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 06, 2019, 06:57:11 PM
Unreal that Pace and Nagy gave that basket case another chance. I’m frankly shocked he made the first. Been a mental midget of the highest caliber all season.  Enjoy selling insurance in South Florida man
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: nyg on January 06, 2019, 06:58:12 PM
That hurt Bears fans.  This Nick Foles saga is getting just ridiculous. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: withoutbias on January 06, 2019, 06:59:48 PM
not sure ive ever seen the double doink. that kicker loves the crossbars. fly seagles fly.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 06, 2019, 07:00:17 PM
Wow.

Selfishly happy as I don’t think we beat Saints in New Orleans.  Better chance against Rams, still tough either way.  Great game, feel bad for Parker.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 06, 2019, 07:00:53 PM
My condolences, Bears fans.
That sucks.

To be fair, they kinda butchered the last two minutes. Nagy should have called a timeout much earlier at the goal line. The Robinson catch with 35 seconds left was a bad spot to burn their final timeout. Better clock management probably gets at least another play or two at the end there. Counting on a 40+ yarder at Soldier Field with an ok kicker is a tough spot. Would like to have seen another five yards somehow.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on January 06, 2019, 07:01:06 PM
Damn. Couldn’t have been more than inches from bouncing the other way.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 06, 2019, 07:17:57 PM
To be fair, they kinda butchered the last two minutes. Nagy should have called a timeout much earlier at the goal line. The Robinson catch with 35 seconds left was a bad spot to burn their final timeout. Better clock management probably gets at least another play or two at the end there. Counting on a 40+ yarder at Soldier Field with an ok kicker is a tough spot. Would like to have seen another five yards somehow.

43 yards on a windless night at home.  Thats why you pay NFL kickers.  He probably misses from 35, it doesn't matter.  He doesn't have the mental fortitude.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: buckchuckler on January 06, 2019, 07:23:33 PM
43 yards on a windless night at home.  Thats why you pay NFL kickers.  He probably misses from 35, it doesn't matter.  He doesn't have the mental fortitude.
Completely predictable outcome.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jay Bee on January 06, 2019, 07:35:21 PM
lol
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jsglow on January 06, 2019, 07:54:03 PM
To be fair, they kinda butchered the last two minutes. Nagy should have called a timeout much earlier at the goal line. The Robinson catch with 35 seconds left was a bad spot to burn their final timeout. Better clock management probably gets at least another play or two at the end there. Counting on a 40+ yarder at Soldier Field with an ok kicker is a tough spot. Would like to have seen another five yards somehow.

I'm not going to be too critical of Nagy.  By today's standard and in those conditions, an 85% kick.  Too bad as I know a lot of you guys are Bears fans.  I was cheering for them too today.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 06, 2019, 07:54:52 PM
Positive out of the game, Mitch was really good, and was great in the second half. He made some dude throws.

People made at Parkey need to send that anger towards Nagy. Matt Nagy was not good tonight.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: cheebs09 on January 06, 2019, 08:23:28 PM
This tweet shows that it was tipped and Hester confirmed it.

https://twitter.com/scottgustin/status/1082095504970919936?s=21
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on January 06, 2019, 08:48:41 PM
Positive out of the game, Mitch was really good, and was great in the second half. He made some dude throws.

People made at Parkey need to send that anger towards Nagy. Matt Nagy was not good tonight.

He threw 2 or 3 gimme balls the Eagles should have had. He made some very promising throws today and has had some good moments down the stretch this year, but he has a lot of growing to do
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 06, 2019, 08:52:53 PM
He threw 2 or 3 gimme balls the Eagles should have had. He made some very promising throws today and has had some good moments down the stretch this year, but he has a lot of growing to do

First half, yes, he definitely had a couple bad throws that should have been picked. My bigger point being when game was on the line, he was a big reason they had a chance to still win. Thought he was good when it mattered most. Still a ways to go, but positive sign in clutch moments.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 06, 2019, 09:00:47 PM
As a guy with no horse in the race, I thought the second half of that Eagles-Bears game was very compelling sports theater. I was tired of watching TV most of the day -- I rarely do that -- but I couldn't stop watching that game.

I don't see how the Bears can even entertain the thought of keeping that kicker.

Trubisky impressed me down the stretch, but the Bears' great defense (and it is great; I'm not being sarcastic) couldn't get in Foles' grille often enough.

But here's some good news, at least: Virginia McCaskey saved 28 cents not paying Robbie Gould.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mr.MUskie on January 06, 2019, 09:35:41 PM
Who here thinks Fangio will be back next year? Seems like several teams are interviewing him for head coaching positions.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on January 06, 2019, 11:11:42 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Bears defense.

The offense takes the lead with 5 minutes left and the "best defense in the league" gives up a 12 play drive for the winning TD.

To be the best, you have to make plays when it counts. Otherwise, you're just Green Bay.


Edit: apologies to 82.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 07, 2019, 12:09:39 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Bears defense.

The offense takes the lead with 5 minutes left and the "best defense in the league" gives up a 12 play drive for the winning TD.

To be the best, you have to make plays when it counts. Otherwise, you're just Green Bay.


Edit: apologies to 82.

The more egregious drive was the Goedert TD drive. Three really terrible penalties, the Amos penalty in particular was just a killer penalty.

They got 2 picks, they held Philly to 1.8 yds per rush, but they did not put enough pressure on Foles, who was particularly good on 3rd down.

Better offensive play calling wins the game, but the defense is certainly more than accountable here. People who call this the Parkey doink game will not assign proper blame where due.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 07, 2019, 09:15:44 AM
Who here thinks Fangio will be back next year? Seems like several teams are interviewing him for head coaching positions.

From, Ian Rapoport:
Update on #Bears DC Vic Fangio: The #Dolphins, who requested him and did research, ended up not scheduling an interview with Fangio. So, it’s just the #Broncos for him. Miami, meanwhile, is still slated to interview ST coach Darren Rizzi this week.

Fangio strikes me as a guy who's a great DC but not necessarily head coaching material, a la Bud Carson or Monte Kiffin. The fact he's a 60-year-old defensive guy in a league obsessed with hiring the next Sean McVay/Kyle Shanahan/Matt Nagy doesn't help.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUBurrow on January 07, 2019, 09:20:49 AM
Fangio strikes me as a guy who's a great DC but not necessarily head coaching material, a la Bud Carson or Monte Kiffin. The fact he's a 60-year-old defensive guy in a league obsessed with hiring the next Sean McVay/Kyle Shanahan/Matt Nagy doesn't help.

Is there a chance that barring an offer he can't refuse, Fangio just isn't that into hunting for a head job? He's been a highly respected D Coordinator for 25 years now, how is he just now surfacing as a candidate?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 07, 2019, 10:25:12 AM
People who call this the Parkey doink game will not assign proper blame where due.

Of course. But he is the Master Doinker, and that amazing final kick will be what's remembered forever about this game.

I mean, was "Wide Right" the sole reason (or even the main reason) the Bills lost their first Super Bowl? Was Webber's time out the sole reason (or even the main reason) Michigan lost the NCAA title game?

That's sports.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 07, 2019, 11:45:03 AM
Of course. But he is the Master Doinker, and that amazing final kick will be what's remembered forever about this game.

I mean, was "Wide Right" the sole reason (or even the main reason) the Bills lost their first Super Bowl? Was Webber's time out the sole reason (or even the main reason) Michigan lost the NCAA title game?

That's sports.

Correct. Bears defense did their job, I would say. 2 ints and shut down the run. Shot themselves in the foot with penalties on 1 TD drive.

If anything is going to be to blame, it was the first half offense.

Trubisky played well in the 2nd half and especially the last 2 drives.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on January 07, 2019, 11:48:42 AM
The kick was tipped.   Parkey's responsibility ended when the ball was grazed on the way up.   Great interior push. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 07, 2019, 05:17:33 PM
LaFleur your new Pack Head Coach it looks like.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 07, 2019, 05:40:50 PM
LaFleur your new Pack Head Coach it looks like.

Yup.  Can't say I know enough about coordinators throughout the league or where he's been before, but is an offense that was 27th in scoring (19.4 ppg) and 27th in yards really that impressive?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 07, 2019, 05:43:04 PM
The Spanish call....No Senor, No Senor

https://sports.yahoo.com/no-senor-no-senor-listen-eagles-spanish-language-broadcaster-bears-fg-miss-185328474.html


Latin passion for broadcasting is feverish....catch it. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Goose on January 07, 2019, 05:48:53 PM
Very excited about the Packer hire. Joe Thomas has been speaking very highly of him the past week or so. Nice to have some new blood in Titletown.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUBurrow on January 07, 2019, 05:50:23 PM
Yup.  Can't say I know enough about coordinators throughout the league or where he's been before, but is an offense that was 27th in scoring (19.4 ppg) and 27th in yards really that impressive?

Was talking about this during the Ten-Ind game last week.  Very little executive coaching experience. QBs coach for the Super Bowl Falcons, O Coordinator for the Rams last year and the Titans this year. I guess when it comes to the hiring the next hot coach, if you're not early, you're late.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 07, 2019, 06:37:44 PM
The kick was tipped.   Parkey's responsibility ended when the ball was grazed on the way up.

It's hard to argue with this, of course. But when a half-dozen kicks that weren't blocked hit the upright during the season, it's hard to ignore this one even if logic says I should. Plus, do we know that the kick had a good trajectory? One he made earlier in the game was a low liner.

Either way, if I'm running the Bears, there is a 0.00% chance I bring back the second-least-accurate kicker in the league. They can do better. Hell, I think Gould is a free agent.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on January 07, 2019, 06:48:17 PM
Felt that packers was best available job (Browns could have an argument). Don’t think he’s the best available coach. Underwhelmed.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jsglow on January 07, 2019, 06:50:59 PM
Certainly has been a key lieutenant for some of the best offensive minds in football.  Risky? Yes.  Possible home run? Yes.  Murphy's job will depend on it working.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on January 07, 2019, 08:31:14 PM
Yup.  Can't say I know enough about coordinators throughout the league or where he's been before, but is an offense that was 27th in scoring (19.4 ppg) and 27th in yards really that impressive?

I won't say I'm super enthused (there were no home run candidates, IMO), but I don't put a lot of stock in that. Outside of Corey Davis, the Titans weapons aren't exactly a who's who. If he's someone who they feel maximized the talent he had/didn't have, then it's hard to fault them for this move.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on January 07, 2019, 09:41:40 PM
Really thought Nagy would scheme this offense much differently today.

Have had questions about him all year.  He did some great things, but some of the brightest light moments this year were bad.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 07, 2019, 10:52:42 PM
Sacre Bleu! The Packers just hired the former Canadiens right wing!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU B2002 on January 08, 2019, 09:42:51 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/chicago-bears-cody-parkey-finds-support-in-brewery-come-out-and-prove-us-wrong
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Chili on January 08, 2019, 10:09:00 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/chicago-bears-cody-parkey-finds-support-in-brewery-come-out-and-prove-us-wrong

You're all welcome. Please visit my office on Saturday tho I'll be at the game in MKE.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 08, 2019, 11:09:26 AM
I’m still in pain.

Goose Island has to be careful. If you’re set up, can take your time and there’s no defensive line, people can hit 40 yd field goals.

Kicking the ball 40 yards isn’t hard, kicking the ball 40 yards over a d-line that’s 7 yards away is hard.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: barfolomew on January 08, 2019, 12:53:37 PM
Sacre Bleu! The Packers just hired the former Canadiens right wing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikVthmetNH8
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU B2002 on January 08, 2019, 01:04:27 PM
I’m still in pain.

Goose Island has to be careful. If you’re set up, can take your time and there’s no defensive line, people can hit 40 yd field goals.

Kicking the ball 40 yards isn’t hard, kicking the ball 40 yards over a d-line that’s 7 yards away is hard.

I once participated (2013) in a contest on Everbank Field in Jacksonville where current season ticket holders could try a 35 yard field goal for an extra pair of season tickets.  My daughter and I watched for about 90 minutes as hundreds of people tried their luck.  I saw one guy make it, and i heard him say he kicked for a small college team.  No one else was really close, including me (who almost killed an attendant with a line drive kick.)

I would agree, that a handful of people could maybe make that kick, but IMHO Chili won't be giving out much beer. 


Really need to hear how this plays out.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on January 08, 2019, 01:06:14 PM
Will GI allow Cody Parker to attempt this for free beer? Might make for even better PR than AB-InBev is getting out of announcing the challenge.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 08, 2019, 01:26:02 PM
I once participated (2013) in a contest on Everbank Field in Jacksonville where current season ticket holders could try a 35 yard field goal for an extra pair of season tickets.  My daughter and I watched for about 90 minutes as hundreds of people tried their luck.  I saw one guy make it, and i heard him say he kicked for a small college team.  No one else was really close, including me (who almost killed an attendant with a line drive kick.)

I would agree, that a handful of people could maybe make that kick, but IMHO Chili won't be giving out much beer. 


Really need to hear how this plays out.

I was a DB and WR in high school, also kicked.  Could make 45 yarder about 1/2 of the time.  My accuracy was always spot on, but the issue for me was the leg strength.  Average joe tries to kick too hard and it is similar to golf, you start spraying it all over the place.

Tougher than it looks, especially in a game when the adrenaline is going and people are crashing the line, talking trash before the kick, etc.  PATs are layups.  Literally that easy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on January 08, 2019, 02:04:24 PM
Could you dunk though
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 08, 2019, 02:18:52 PM
Kliff Kingsbury apparently getting the Arizona job.

35-40 at Texas Tech and three straight losing seasons is all it takes to get an NFL gig these days if you're an offensive coach under the age of 40.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUBurrow on January 08, 2019, 02:27:12 PM
Kicking the ball 40 yards isn’t hard, kicking the ball 40 yards over a d-line that’s 7 yards away is hard.

I was a DB and WR in high school, also kicked.  Could make 45 yarder about 1/2 of the time.  My accuracy was always spot on, but the issue for me was the leg strength. 

This all sounds about right. I remember kicking before soccer practice in high school, and with an extra two-step run up and no lineman, a fair number of guys could knock in 35 yarders pretty consistently.  You shorten the approach and put a 7 foot wall at the line of scrimmage, though, and things fall apart.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 08, 2019, 03:24:09 PM
Kliff Kingsbury apparently getting the Arizona job.

35-40 at Texas Tech and three straight losing seasons is all it takes to get an NFL gig these days if you're an offensive coach under the age of 40.

I see it both ways here. He wasn’t successful and would be an OC and not a HC in college if he stayed there. So that’s strange

However, his main issues were with recruiting and struggling to create a defense in a conference where good DCs shy away cause they are cannon fodder. Provided he gets a competent and experience DC, maybe he turns out ok cause he is a fantastic offensive mind.

But the McVay effect is going NUTS. Spend anytime with him and you’re blessed in NFL FOs. I went to college with him and gave him slaps of five many times it parties. Does that get me an interview?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 08, 2019, 04:24:44 PM
I see it both ways here. He wasn’t successful and would be an OC and not a HC in college if he stayed there. So that’s strange

However, his main issues were with recruiting and struggling to create a defense in a conference where good DCs shy away cause they are cannon fodder. Provided he gets a competent and experience DC, maybe he turns out ok cause he is a fantastic offensive mind.

But is he really a fantastic offensive mind? He's basically running the offense Mike Leach taught him, just not nearly as well. Leach was in the top 10 in PPG most years. Kingsbury has been 24th, 54th, 2nd, 5th, 23rd and 100th. And now he has to match up with far better DCs than anything he faced in the Big 12.
Maybe he'll be a rousing success, but it's a very weird hire.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 08, 2019, 04:33:02 PM
Bucs are buc-ing the trend (ha ha) by hiring an old guy.

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Buccaneers now finalizing deal to make Bruce Arians their next head coach, per sources. The former Cardinals’ HC will be the Bucs next HC.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on January 08, 2019, 04:34:47 PM
Bucs are buc-ing the trend (ha ha) by hiring an old guy.

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Buccaneers now finalizing deal to make Bruce Arians their next head coach, per sources. The former Cardinals’ HC will be the Bucs next HC.


True - -  but he coaches offense like one of the young guys.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 08, 2019, 04:40:54 PM

True - -  but he coaches offense like one of the young guys.

Yes, he coaches offense, but he's not a spread/RPO guy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 08, 2019, 07:26:28 PM
This all sounds about right. I remember kicking before soccer practice in high school, and with an extra two-step run up and no lineman, a fair number of guys could knock in 35 yarders pretty consistently.  You shorten the approach and put a 7 foot wall at the line of scrimmage, though, and things fall apart.

My sport was mostly soccer.  Here in Calif football is Fall and soccer is Winter, unlike many other places where they are head to head in Fall.  We had a tee back then, too.  I don’t know if high school football still allows a one inch tee for FG’s or not. 


Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 09, 2019, 11:14:50 AM
Browns hiring Freddie Kitchens as HC.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mikekinsellaMVP on January 09, 2019, 11:16:26 AM
Fangio to Broncos.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 09, 2019, 11:32:52 AM
Fangio to Broncos.

Depending on how they replace him, that might be the Bears' worst loss this year.
Rex Ryan time? Local guy, will command the room and coaches a similar scheme (Fangio actually worked under Ryan in Baltimore).
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: TallTitan34 on January 09, 2019, 11:51:43 AM
@BradBiggs
Todd Bowles has not signed a contract with #Buccaneers and is expected to choose between re-joining Bruce Arians in Tampa Bay or being #Bears defensive coordinator.

https://twitter.com/BradBiggs/status/1083054664386527237 (https://twitter.com/BradBiggs/status/1083054664386527237)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 09, 2019, 12:03:27 PM
Todd Bowles is going to be your next Bears DC.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on January 09, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
I was a DB and WR in high school, also kicked.  Could make 45 yarder about 1/2 of the time.  My accuracy was always spot on, but the issue for me was the leg strength.  Average joe tries to kick too hard and it is similar to golf, you start spraying it all over the place.

Tougher than it looks, especially in a game when the adrenaline is going and people are crashing the line, talking trash before the kick, etc.  PATs are layups.  Literally that easy.

Back in '82, Chicos could throw a pigskin a quarter mile
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 09, 2019, 01:52:15 PM
Back in '82, Chicos could throw a pigskin a quarter mile

Uncle Rico?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 09, 2019, 02:31:29 PM
Todd Bowles is going to be your next Bears DC.

Looks like I’m wrong, thought for sure once he hedged on Tampa, he was coming to Chicago.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 09, 2019, 02:32:26 PM
Looks like I’m wrong, thought for sure once he hedged on Tampa, he was coming to Chicago.

What a god awful week.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 09, 2019, 03:08:27 PM
What a god awful week.

If the Parkey kick goes in, I wonder if Fangio is still here.

Really thought once Bowles didn’t sign a contract with Tampa this morning, he was coming to Chicago. Obviously money will be biggest factor, but should be plenty of good candidates for the Bears DC job. Curious to see what happens with Donatell, if he goes to Denver.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 09, 2019, 03:14:58 PM
If the Parkey kick goes in, I wonder if Fangio is still here.

Really thought once Bowles didn’t sign a contract with Tampa this morning, he was coming to Chicago. Obviously money will be biggest factor, but should be plenty of good candidates for the Bears DC job. Curious to see what happens with Donatell, if he goes to Denver.

I sill think Rex would be a good choice, though a Bears fan friend raised a good point ... Rex is an awfully big personality, perhaps too big for a low-key organization with a low-key head coach.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 09, 2019, 03:22:01 PM
I sill think Rex would be a good choice, though a Bears fan friend raised a good point ... Rex is an awfully big personality, perhaps too big for a low-key organization with a low-key head coach.

I think you're right on with the too big a personality aspect (funny as his dad is a Bears legend).

I give Bowles credit, from what it sounds like, he had not signed a contract with Tampa, but gave Arians his word that he'd be his DC. Then this morning he was really intrigued by Chicago, thought about it, and went back to keeping his word.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 09, 2019, 03:46:35 PM
I think you're right on with the too big a personality aspect (funny as his dad is a Bears legend).

I give Bowles credit, from what it sounds like, he had not signed a contract with Tampa, but gave Arians his word that he'd be his DC. Then this morning he was really intrigued by Chicago, thought about it, and went back to keeping his word.

Bears pose an interesting dilemma for whoever their next DC is.
Obviously all the pieces are in place to be successful. On the other hand, any regression - and it seems likely given a number of factors, like a tougher schedule  - is going to be blamed on the new guy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 09, 2019, 03:56:06 PM
Bears pose an interesting dilemma for whoever their next DC is.
Obviously all the pieces are in place to be successful. On the other hand, any regression - and it seems likely given a number of factors, like a tougher schedule  - is going to be blamed on the new guy.

They are likely due for regression. Interceptions can be fluky from year to year. The Bears were relatively healthy on defense in '18. Not having Jackson/Callahan in the wild card game was not ideal, they lost Mack for a couple games with an ankle, but for the most part they were relatively healthy. Next year's schedule will be tougher as well as you mentioned, so there should naturally be some regression all around.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on January 09, 2019, 04:28:41 PM
I sill think Rex would be a good choice, though a Bears fan friend raised a good point ... Rex is an awfully big personality, perhaps too big for a low-key organization with a low-key head coach.

Hell no to Rex. He's nothing more than a caricature these days.

In Buffalo, he inherited a defensive that finished 2nd in DVOA in 2014. Two years later, his defense finished 27th. Sean McDermott comes in and the defense immediately bounces back, finishing 15th in 2017.

 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 09, 2019, 07:01:21 PM
Back in '82, Chicos could throw a pigskin a quarter mile

Nope.  Love your obsession with me.  Rent free for all these years.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 09, 2019, 10:11:26 PM
Is Kyler Murray a success in the NFL?

https://twitter.com/SInow/status/1083205578724438016
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 09, 2019, 10:29:46 PM
What a god awful week.

MU with 2 big wins, including an amazing one today, and getting a commitment from a 4-star recruit who will really help us for several years.

I was thinking it was a heck of a week.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 09, 2019, 10:31:21 PM
Is Kyler Murray a success in the NFL?

https://twitter.com/SInow/status/1083205578724438016

I'll be surprised if he goes before the 5th round. Very small (not just short), not a great arm by NFL standards and wants to play two sports.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on January 10, 2019, 09:07:02 AM
I'll be surprised if he goes before the 5th round. Very small (not just short), not a great arm by NFL standards and wants to play two sports.


If he drops much out of the 1st round he'll probably play baseball with the $$$ already guaranteed to him.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 10, 2019, 09:30:49 AM
If he drops much out of the 1st round he'll probably play baseball with the $$$ already guaranteed to him.

Unless he commits 100 percent to football - and why would he? - what team is going to use a first-round pick on him? Who wants a quarterback that's going to potentially be unavailable for OTAs, minicamp, training camp, the entire preseason and the first 4-5 weeks of the regular season?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on January 10, 2019, 09:34:14 AM
Contract in hand.   Never has to get beat up by a 280lb end again.     So much less risk of CTE.    But hey, it is his choice. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on January 10, 2019, 09:40:53 AM
Contract in hand.   Never has to get beat up by a 280lb end again.     So much less risk of CTE.    But hey, it is his choice.

But baseball is so boring. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 10, 2019, 10:42:06 AM
Contract in hand.   Never has to get beat up by a 280lb end again.     So much less risk of CTE.    But hey, it is his choice.

If it is about most likely scenario of the most money to earn, historically would suggest going to football.  I know that sounds backwards, but it isn't.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/ask-ba-financially-kyler-murray-would-do-better-in-the-nfl/

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 10, 2019, 10:49:18 AM
If it is about most likely scenario of the most money to earn, historically would suggest going to football.  I know that sounds backwards, but it isn't.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/ask-ba-financially-kyler-murray-would-do-better-in-the-nfl/

The problem with this analysis is that it supposes that Murray will be a first round pick AND  ... something exceptionally unlikely to happen if he plans to try both sports.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on January 10, 2019, 11:42:25 AM
But baseball is so boring.

I would say the same about football.    Give me my baseball. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 10, 2019, 12:08:55 PM
The problem with this analysis is that it supposes that Murray will be a first round pick AND  ... something exceptionally unlikely to happen if he plans to try both sports.

Kingsbury said in October he would take him the number one pick overall, not just first round pick, but first pick of first round.  In a twist of irony, Kingsbury is now the coach of the Arizona Cardinals and they have #1 pick.  What will they do?  Some articles today suggesting Cardinals will take him, trade Rosen.

The analysis I attached is held by a few others. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2019-nfl-draft-heres-why-kyler-murray-should-play-in-the-nfl-and-pass-on-baseball/

These jump out of extreme stiffs and how much they made. It's tough to break through in baseball, a long journey....how many stiffs in baseball make this kind of money?

Mark Sanchez: $74.2 million
- Matt Cassel: $65.5 million
- Ryan Fitzpatrick: $58 million
- Josh McCown: $49.7 million

A 2nd midround pick in the NFL makes the same as the A's have given to him.

There are also some analysis that say baseball is the slam dunk.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/heres-why-kyler-murray-should-stick-with-baseball-instead-of-declaring-for-the-nfl-draft/

It's like 500 economists saying one thing, 500 another....or 5 SCOTUS justices saying one thing while 4 others say the opposite.   It's pandemonium.   ;)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on January 10, 2019, 12:14:27 PM
Unless he commits 100 percent to football - and why would he? - what team is going to use a first-round pick on him? Who wants a quarterback that's going to potentially be unavailable for OTAs, minicamp, training camp, the entire preseason and the first 4-5 weeks of the regular season?

I was thinking about this - Gruden thinks of himself as a QB whisperer and is clearly a gambler - he might try to trade Carr for a pick or 2 and use one of the late 1sts they already have on Murray if he's convinced he'll give football a shot.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: cheebs09 on January 10, 2019, 12:15:09 PM
Kingsbury said in October he would take him the number one pick overall, not just first round pick, but first pick of first round.  In a twist of irony, Kingsbury is now the coach of the Arizona Cardinals and they have #1 pick.  What will they do?  Some articles today suggesting Cardinals will take him, trade Rosen.

The analysis I attached is held by a few others. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2019-nfl-draft-heres-why-kyler-murray-should-play-in-the-nfl-and-pass-on-baseball/

These jump out of extreme stiffs and how much they made. It's tough to break through in baseball, a long journey....how many stiffs in baseball make this kind of money?

Mark Sanchez: $74.2 million
- Matt Cassel: $65.5 million
- Ryan Fitzpatrick: $58 million
- Josh McCown: $49.7 million

A 2nd midround pick in the NFL makes the same as the A's have given to him.

There are also some analysis that say baseball is the slam dunk.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/heres-why-kyler-murray-should-stick-with-baseball-instead-of-declaring-for-the-nfl-draft/

It's like 500 economists saying one thing, 500 another....or 5 SCOTUS justices saying one thing while 4 others say the opposite.   It's pandemonium.   ;)

Apologies if I this is covered in the article, but is that money they actually received or just the sticker price of the contracts? Also, I believe those players were drafted before the capping of contracts for draft picks. First rounders got a lot more up front in the past.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on January 10, 2019, 12:17:26 PM
LaFleur won't retain Ron Zook. Dude is already a Packers legend.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: barfolomew on January 10, 2019, 12:19:50 PM
Hell no to Rex. He's nothing more than a caricature these days.

At least we know Rex would jump into the job with both feet.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 10, 2019, 12:38:11 PM
Apologies if I this is covered in the article, but is that money they actually received or just the sticker price of the contracts? Also, I believe those players were drafted before the capping of contracts for draft picks. First rounders got a lot more up front in the past.

In Sanchez's case, he got $28M guaranteed.....then three years later got a $40.5M extension, of which $20M was guaranteed.  So that's $48M in guarantee money, plus whatever else he took in.  Fox Sports and one other site say $72M in total, but I don't know if some of that was sticker price.  Let's just go with the guarantee alone, which we know is low because it doesn't include the years he did actually fulfill....$48M.  That's a lot of money for a stiff.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on January 10, 2019, 12:40:51 PM
Hell no to Rex. He's nothing more than a caricature these days.

In Buffalo, he inherited a defensive that finished 2nd in DVOA in 2014. Two years later, his defense finished 27th. Sean McDermott comes in and the defense immediately bounces back, finishing 15th in 2017.

Rex would likely be a disaster. He runs gimmick schemes and gambles, and no one can follow his playbooks. If I were the Bears, I'd back up the Brinks truck for Jim Schwartz, make him the highest paid D coordinator in the league, give him an associate head coach title or something if needed. He'd take those pieces from very good to great.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 10, 2019, 12:41:51 PM

Mark Sanchez: $74.2 million
- Matt Cassel: $65.5 million
- Ryan Fitzpatrick: $58 million
- Josh McCown: $49.7 million

The average length of career for these four guys is 13.5 years.
The average career length of an NFL quarterback is 4.4 years.
So maybe comparing career earnings of players who've lasted three times longer than the average isn't the most accurate way to go about this.

For fairness sake, how about comparing career earnings of longtime middling position players?
Mike Napoli just retired after a 13-year career in which he earned $85.1 million.
In 11 years, Brett Gardner has earned $64.6 million and has $7.5 million more coming this year.
In 11 years, Dexter Fowler has earned $65.7 million and is owed another $49 million more (nice job, Cardinals)
Over 14 years, Melky Cabrera has earned $71.6 million

Apples to apples says baseball is the better move.


Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 10, 2019, 12:43:00 PM
In Sanchez's case, he got $28M guaranteed.....then three years later got a $40.5M extension, of which $20M was guaranteed.  So that's $48M in guarantee money, plus whatever else he took in.  Fox Sports and one other site say $72M in total, but I don't know if some of that was sticker price.  Let's just go with the guarantee alone, which we know is low because it doesn't include the years he did actually fulfill....$48M.  That's a lot of money for a stiff.

Except the majority of that is based on Sanchez being the 5th overall pick in the draft ... something Murray won't come close to being. So, moot point.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jficke13 on January 10, 2019, 12:58:38 PM
Except the majority of that is based on Sanchez being the 5th overall pick in the draft ... something Murray won't come close to being. So, moot point.

Kinda clownish though he may be, Schefter floated a scenario where Arizona trades Rosen and drafts Murray. I'm not sure where he ends up going, but 5th round seems low given the feast or (more commonly) famine nature of NFL QB play.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 10, 2019, 01:02:56 PM
Kinda clownish though he may be, Schefter floated a scenario where Arizona trades Rosen and drafts Murray. I'm not sure where he ends up going, but 5th round seems low given the feast or (more commonly) famine nature of NFL QB play.

@RapSheet: Checked with a high-ranking #AZCardinals source, who called this notion of trading QB Josh Rosen: “Ludicrous. Not happening.”
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jficke13 on January 10, 2019, 01:38:18 PM
@RapSheet: Checked with a high-ranking #AZCardinals source, who called this notion of trading QB Josh Rosen: “Ludicrous. Not happening.”

Yeah, seemed far-fetched to me too.

Still think Murray goes in Rds 1-3 rather than 4-7 though. Who knows?

I saw something that basically said that a 1st Rd pick will make more guaranteed money on his first deal than Murray could possibly make until his first arbitration year deal (which could be 5-10 years away). If he gets 1st round attention, I wouldn't be shocked if he and agent communicated that football trumped baseball for him and that would discount the "he's splitting time" detraction.

Edited to add: This is what I saw:

"Baseball’s financial system is so badly skewed toward older players; if he were to stay with the A’s and take just two years to reach the majors (which would be pretty fast), he’d then have three seasons making around $500k before seeing anything approaching real money. It’s not just possible, but expected that he would reach 26 or 27 and have something like $6.5m in career earnings (including the $4.7m signing bonus), and that’s if he makes it at all. He’d get more than double that in guaranteed money if drafted in the middle of the first round as a QB."

-- Deadspin commenter (yeah, consider the source, but that squares with my general observations of baseball contracts and the lengths teams go to protect team control at low cost contracts)

We'll see <shrugs>
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 10, 2019, 01:55:58 PM
Yeah, seemed far-fetched to me too.

Still think Murray goes in Rds 1-3 rather than 4-7 though. Who knows?

I saw something that basically said that a 1st Rd pick will make more guaranteed money on his first deal than Murray could possibly make until his first arbitration year deal (which could be 5-10 years away). If he gets 1st round attention, I wouldn't be shocked if he and agent communicated that football trumped baseball for him and that would discount the "he's splitting time" detraction.

Edited to add: This is what I saw:

"Baseball’s financial system is so badly skewed toward older players; if he were to stay with the A’s and take just two years to reach the majors (which would be pretty fast), he’d then have three seasons making around $500k before seeing anything approaching real money. It’s not just possible, but expected that he would reach 26 or 27 and have something like $6.5m in career earnings (including the $4.7m signing bonus), and that’s if he makes it at all. He’d get more than double that in guaranteed money if drafted in the middle of the first round as a QB."

-- Deadspin commenter (yeah, consider the source, but that squares with my general observations of baseball contracts and the lengths teams go to protect team control at low cost contracts)

We'll see <shrugs>

If Murray knew he could play only 4-5 years in either sport and would likely be taken in the first round of the NFL draft, he may be better off with football.
But I'd be surprised if he goes that early in the NFL Draft (5'10" with an average, by NFL standards, arm + possibility of hightailing it back to baseball) or has a baseball career that lasts just 4-5 years.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on January 10, 2019, 04:07:32 PM
Sounds like the Steelers are making Antonio Brown available.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 10, 2019, 04:14:10 PM
Sounds like the Steelers are making Antonio Brown available.

The cap implications of trading him will be very bad, especially if they do it before June 1.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 10, 2019, 07:06:31 PM
The average length of career for these four guys is 13.5 years.
The average career length of an NFL quarterback is 4.4 years.
So maybe comparing career earnings of players who've lasted three times longer than the average isn't the most accurate way to go about this.

For fairness sake, how about comparing career earnings of longtime middling position players?
Mike Napoli just retired after a 13-year career in which he earned $85.1 million.
In 11 years, Brett Gardner has earned $64.6 million and has $7.5 million more coming this year.
In 11 years, Dexter Fowler has earned $65.7 million and is owed another $49 million more (nice job, Cardinals)
Over 14 years, Melky Cabrera has earned $71.6 million

Apples to apples says baseball is the better move.

That's assuming Murray makes a roster in the majors.

If he just sticks in the NFL, he makes closer to the top money vs playing a career in the minors.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 10, 2019, 11:28:13 PM
@RapSheet: Checked with a high-ranking #AZCardinals source, who called this notion of trading QB Josh Rosen: “Ludicrous. Not happening.”

Could be, but Adam Schefter had it on ESPN today as a possibility.  Of course through the years clubs have denied a lot of things and did them anyway.  It was supposedly ludicrous when the Cowboys took a QB in the first round after they took Aikman with the very first pick, but they did anyway with Steve Walsh.

As for where he would be drafted, he's slotted in the first round by many gurus, and second round by others.  Even if he was mid level second round pick, he makes more money than the A's are giving him, and that's on one NFL contract.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 10, 2019, 11:35:18 PM
The average length of career for these four guys is 13.5 years.
The average career length of an NFL quarterback is 4.4 years.
So maybe comparing career earnings of players who've lasted three times longer than the average isn't the most accurate way to go about this.

For fairness sake, how about comparing career earnings of longtime middling position players?
Mike Napoli just retired after a 13-year career in which he earned $85.1 million.
In 11 years, Brett Gardner has earned $64.6 million and has $7.5 million more coming this year.
In 11 years, Dexter Fowler has earned $65.7 million and is owed another $49 million more (nice job, Cardinals)
Over 14 years, Melky Cabrera has earned $71.6 million

Apples to apples says baseball is the better move.

But for fairness sake they were comparing QB's to QB's, I just copy and pasted.  Not sure those are apples to apples just yet because baseball doesn't even know where he will play.  Is it SS, 2nd base, or the Outfield?  Napoli was a catcher / 1B / DH power hitter, is that the same type of bball player Murray will be?  I don't know, but Napoli stuck around because of his power.   Murray has some power, but it's unknown how well he does with a wooden bat with MLB pitching.

If this was any position by QB, I'd agree with you 100%.  Because it is QB, it makes it intriguing and a more complex question because of the guarantees QBs get in the NFL.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 10, 2019, 11:41:06 PM
That's assuming Murray makes a roster in the majors.

If he just sticks in the NFL, he makes closer to the top money vs playing a career in the minors.

BINGO

Landing in the majors is tough and lots of burnouts.  Almost unheard of for a first round NFL pick to get cut, even 2nd rounders extremely rare, which means the first contract and the guarantee that goes with it is there.  The list of bball players drafted in the first rounds that don't make it to the majors is long.  There have been 15 guys drafted in the top 3 spots that never made it, including three overall #1's.  But when you include top ten picks in the first round, that list of never making it grows quite a bit, much much much higher than the NFL.  Murray was drafted 9th overall in baseball.
Title: B
Post by: Pakuni on January 11, 2019, 04:15:37 PM
BINGO

Landing in the majors is tough and lots of burnouts.  Almost unheard of for a first round NFL pick to get cut, even 2nd rounders extremely rare, which means the first contract and the guarantee that goes with it is there.  The list of bball players drafted in the first rounds that don't make it to the majors is long.  There have been 15 guys drafted in the top 3 spots that never made it, including three overall #1's.  But when you include top ten picks in the first round, that list of never making it grows quite a bit, much much much higher than the NFL.  Murray was drafted 9th overall in baseball.

But the issue really isn't making MLB vs NFL. If Murray's only concern was "making it" and not long-term earnings, you're right, football is the choice.
But what really matters is earning that first big contract. And the odds of that aren't any better in the NFL than MLB. For argument's sake, let's say Murray goes somewhere between mid 1st and the 2nd round. Here's the list of QBs drafted in that range between 2004-1014. By my count, only 7 of 26 (Rodgers, Flacco, Dalton, Kaepernick, Osweiler, Carr and Garoppolo) got that big contract. A handful stuck around a few years as lowly paid backups and the rest are out of the league.


JP Losman
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell
Kellen Clemens
Tavaris Jackson'
Brady Quinn
Kevin Kolb
John Beck
Drew Stanton
Joe Flacco
Brian Brohm
Chad Henne
John Freeman
Pat White
Tim Tebow
Jimmy Clausen
Andy Dalton
Colin Kaepernick
Brandon Weeden
Brock Osweiler
EJ Manuel
Geno Smith
Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater
Derek Carr
Jimmy Garoppolo

Now, compared with top 10 MLB picks (I won't list them all), but between the 2004-14 drafts, top 10 picks produced 33 all stars .... and that's not including several star players just outside the top 10 (Scherzer, Sale, McCutcheon, Grandal, Springer).
So, yeah, a player taken in the top 10 of the MLB draft has a better chance at major long-term earning potential than a QB taken in the mid-first or second.
And we're not even talking about injury potential with a 5'10", 190-pound running QB (see: Griffin, Robert), longevity long-term health, etc.

But if all that matters is making a roster, then football is where he should go.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 11, 2019, 07:35:06 PM
Chuck Pagano your new Bears DC.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU B2002 on January 11, 2019, 08:26:34 PM
Don’t hate it.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 12, 2019, 08:22:32 PM
CJ Anderson looks like he’s been eating a lot of In-N-Out since heading out West. He is gashing the Boiz though.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 12, 2019, 08:35:45 PM
Two hand touch tonight?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 12, 2019, 08:42:47 PM
Two hand touch tonight?

Evens out some of those roughing the passer calls
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 12, 2019, 08:52:17 PM
Evens out some of those roughing the passer calls

There was a play I think a drive earlier that I’m almost certain a Rams pass rusher pulled up from sacking Dak while he had Dak in his grasp to avoid a roughing the passer after Dak pump faked the throw, freeing up Dak. Suh ended up getting a hit on Dak and Dak overthrew the receiver anyway but it could’ve really hurt the Rams.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUEng92 on January 12, 2019, 09:40:22 PM
This really sucks having to choose between rooting for the Cowboys or for a team that employs Ndamukong Suh.

Cowboy hate has been around longer for me though
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 12, 2019, 09:44:36 PM
This really sucks having to choose between rooting for the Cowboys or for a team that employs Ndamukong Suh.

Cowboy hate has been around longer for me though

I can overlook one clown on a roster of 53 players. This Rams team is just fun to watch. I’m really pulling for a KC vs. LAR Super Bowl. That’d be incredibly entertaining.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 13, 2019, 01:52:30 PM
Through 3 Divisional games, the team coming off a bye has clobbered their opponents. Interesting too all 3 were high rated offenses versus teams with high rated defenses.

Saints are -6 first half.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 13, 2019, 01:58:42 PM
https://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/breaking-rob-ryan-might-be-coming-to-chicago
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 13, 2019, 02:02:46 PM
Cowboys third youngest team in NFL.  Rams the 4th youngest.  Going to be a fun next few years.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 13, 2019, 02:03:50 PM
https://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/breaking-rob-ryan-might-be-coming-to-chicago

He was our def cord for awhile.....not a good showing for us but maybe he works for Bears.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on January 13, 2019, 02:16:46 PM
Cowboys third youngest team in NFL.  Rams the 4th youngest.  Going to be a fun next few years.

My bet. Cowboys don't even make the playoff next year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 13, 2019, 02:24:12 PM
My bet. Cowboys don't even make the playoff next year.

With the clapping ginger on the sidelines, you are probably right.....but who knows.  Defense is very young, will get better.  A lot depends on Dak and what they do with him.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 13, 2019, 02:25:26 PM
Oakland A’s starting to panic on Murray?  Execs meeting with him today to persuade him to stay in baseball after multiple NFL teams indicate he is a first rounder for them.  Nice to have options.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 13, 2019, 03:50:46 PM
Through 3 Divisional games, the team coming off a bye has clobbered their opponents. Interesting too all 3 were high rated offenses versus teams with high rated defenses.

Saints are -6 first half.

Conversely, team that has scored first is 7-0 this postseason. Eagles up 7-0.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on January 13, 2019, 03:52:20 PM
How many teams are lucky enough to have a backup QB who is better than the starter?

I probably just jinxed both Foles and the Eagles.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 13, 2019, 03:58:27 PM
How many teams are lucky enough to have a backup QB who is better than the starter?

I probably just jinxed both Foles and the Eagles.

It’s amazing how much better they are with Foles. Wentz may not have been 100% this year, but everything about them was marginal this year when Wentz was in. Maybe they just had a SB hangover most of the year, but they look so much better than they did 2 months ago.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 13, 2019, 03:59:29 PM
How many teams are lucky enough to have a backup QB who is better than the starter?

I probably just jinxed both Foles and the Eagles.

Well, not the Eagles. Foles has some magic dust working for him, for sure, but he's not a better quarterback than Wentz.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on January 13, 2019, 04:05:13 PM
Well, not the Eagles. Foles has some magic dust working for him, for sure, but he's not a better quarterback than Wentz.

Yeah....... most teams win more games with a worse QB.

If you wanna say Wentz’ ceiling is higher, then we can agree.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 13, 2019, 04:12:48 PM
He was our def cord for awhile.....not a good showing for us but maybe he works for Bears.

He'd be a defensive position coach
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 13, 2019, 04:18:42 PM
Yeah....... most teams win more games with a worse QB.

Wins and losses as the exclusive measure is dumb.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: BM1090 on January 13, 2019, 04:28:49 PM
Wins and losses as the exclusive measure is dumb.

Yeah. Without looking, I'd guess the defense has performed much better since Foles took over.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on January 13, 2019, 04:29:46 PM
Wins and losses as the exclusive measure is dumb.

If wins don’t matter  :o use a stat like QBR.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 13, 2019, 04:38:56 PM
So dumb not taking the holding penalty. Of course Payton is going to go for it on 4th and short.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 13, 2019, 04:40:57 PM
If wins don’t matter  :o use a stat like QBR.

No one said that.
No one disputes the Eagles have played better this year under Foles. (Curiously, people seem to forget the Eagles were 11-2 under Wentz last year).
But that doesn't make Foles a better QB than Wentz. It means the team seems to step it up more when Foles in in the game, likely because they know to have to with a lesser QB in the game.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 13, 2019, 05:07:17 PM
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/1084584534610493449?s=19

MLB getting involved with Murray.

Multiple NFL teams have told Murray he's a first round pick for them. That means, if MLB wants him, more money has to come
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 13, 2019, 05:28:18 PM
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/1084584534610493449?s=19

MLB getting involved with Murray.

Multiple NFL teams have told Murray he's a first round pick for them. That means, if MLB wants him, more money has to come

Yup, posted that earlier today.  Panic time.  Also means nfl teams think he is 1st round quality
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 13, 2019, 05:31:35 PM
Yup, posted that earlier today.  Panic time.  Also means nfl teams think he is 1st round quality

Nobody's panicking. It's a negotiation. Murray's trying to get the best deal he can.
For which I say, bully for him.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: nyg on January 13, 2019, 05:51:55 PM
An analyst on NFL network said that if Murray goes to the NFL combine, he may be found to be 5 ft 8 inches.  That’s really short for NFL, but the kid has a rocket arm and is lightning quick.  Another analyst debating stated he would only draft him as a WR/ slot guy, aka Hines Ward. 

Believe Russel Wilson is 5ft 11, And Doug Flutie was listed as 5ft 10. 

Franchise QB?, don’t think so, but some team will take a shot. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 13, 2019, 06:23:09 PM
Nobody's panicking. It's a negotiation. Murray's trying to get the best deal he can.
For which I say, bully for him.

Maybe I just don't know enough, but isn't it a big deal that MLB execs are going with A's execs?

Edit: I would say. Considering they're going to change their rules/laws for him: https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/kyler-murray-demands-15-million-from-the-oakland-as-or-else-hes-entering-the-nfl-draft-tomorrow
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on January 13, 2019, 06:43:10 PM
No one said that.
No one disputes the Eagles have played better this year under Foles. (Curiously, people seem to forget the Eagles were 11-2 under Wentz last year).
But that doesn't make Foles a better QB than Wentz. It means the team seems to step it up more when Foles in in the game, likely because they know to have to with a lesser QB in the game.


So..... guys don’t play as hard when Wentz is in the game?

Got it.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 13, 2019, 07:10:13 PM
Usually I don’t like seeing rematches in conference title games, but this year we get two great rematches.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on January 14, 2019, 06:51:37 AM
Maybe I just don't know enough, but isn't it a big deal that MLB execs are going with A's execs?

Edit: I would say. Considering they're going to change their rules/laws for him: https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/kyler-murray-demands-15-million-from-the-oakland-as-or-else-hes-entering-the-nfl-draft-tomorrow

This would be a terrible idea, IMO.

a) because while he has a very high ceiling, he also hAs a very low floor due to inexperience.

b) this would be exhibit A in the CBA negotiations, with Exhibit B being Ohtani
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU B2002 on January 14, 2019, 09:50:46 AM

So..... guys don’t play as hard when Wentz is in the game?

Got it.


The only explanation for the Foles / Wentz situation that i heard that made sense revolved around mobility.  Generally speaking the OL knows that Foles will be playing from the pocket, so it makes it easier to block.  Whereas Wentz is likely to be on the move more, and that makes it harder to keep him clean.


But I have no clue.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 14, 2019, 09:58:06 AM

So..... guys don’t play as hard when Wentz is in the game?

Got it.

Yes, that's what I said.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on January 14, 2019, 10:18:21 AM

So..... guys don’t play as hard when Wentz is in the game?

Got it.

If only Foles had been out too and the 3rd stringer would have played! Team would have tried even harder and the Eagles would be playing next week!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on January 14, 2019, 10:20:25 AM

So..... guys don’t play as hard when Wentz is in the game?

Got it.

Haha yeah, that seems like an odd thing for him to say.  I think Foles is a better QB than Wentz.  Book is out on him, which contributed to their issues this year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 14, 2019, 02:16:10 PM
I’m not saying I support it, but I can envision the Bears signing Hunt, if he is still unsigned come March.

Ultimately I think he’ll get a second chance, teams will view him as cheap/impactful talent, he will need to show reconciliation. I think a team like the Eagles, Bears, a team that’s contending, in a big enough media market with other distractions around will be where he ends up.

Re-posting this because the Bears today left the door wide open to an eventual contract with Hunt. If I had to peg a timeframe, I would say during the draft or right after the draft, a two year deal with little guaranteed money, something along those lines. I think they'd aim for that timeframe so Hunt can show them contrition, and it would allow the news of his signing to get buried nationally in the news surrounding the draft (somewhat at least). Of course if more Hunt stuff comes out or he gets into more trouble, everything would be off the table.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU B2002 on January 14, 2019, 02:32:07 PM
Re-posting this because the Bears today left the door wide open to an eventual contract with Hunt. If I had to peg a timeframe, I would say during the draft or right after the draft, a two year deal with little guaranteed money, something along those lines. I think they'd aim for that timeframe so Hunt can show them contrition, and it would allow the news of his signing to get buried nationally in the news surrounding the draft (somewhat at least). Of course if more Hunt stuff comes out or he gets into more trouble, everything would be off the table.

2 questions:
1. You think they would do that after the Ray McDonald Fiasco?

2. Nagy didn't see super pleased with the Cody Parkey media tour. Have to assume he will be gone.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on January 14, 2019, 02:38:09 PM
Re-posting this because the Bears today left the door wide open to an eventual contract with Hunt. If I had to peg a timeframe, I would say during the draft or right after the draft, a two year deal with little guaranteed money, something along those lines. I think they'd aim for that timeframe so Hunt can show them contrition, and it would allow the news of his signing to get buried nationally in the news surrounding the draft (somewhat at least). Of course if more Hunt stuff comes out or he gets into more trouble, everything would be off the table.

Maybe on a Friday at 4:45p, or scheduled 15 minutes after the Mueller report.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 14, 2019, 02:42:56 PM
2 questions:
1. You think they would do that after the Ray McDonald Fiasco?

2. Nagy didn't see super pleased with the Cody Parkey media tour. Have to assume he will be gone.  Thoughts?

No
Yes.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on January 14, 2019, 02:49:13 PM
2 questions:
1. You think they would do that after the Ray McDonald Fiasco?

2. Nagy didn't see super pleased with the Cody Parkey media tour. Have to assume he will be gone.  Thoughts?

Going to find out how much pull Nagy has in the organization. Howard doesn't fit the scheme and the Bears definitely have a need for a three down back. That said, I still doubt George signs off.

Parkey was done with the Bears prior to the media tour. Might as well get some TV time.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 14, 2019, 02:58:02 PM
2 questions:
1. You think they would do that after the Ray McDonald Fiasco?

2. Nagy didn't see super pleased with the Cody Parkey media tour. Have to assume he will be gone.  Thoughts?

I think they will sign him, yes. My thought process here is the biggest need Nagy sees on offense is a different type of back than Howard/Cohen, and Hunt fits Nagy's scheme ideally. I think they'll go to the McCaskey's and line out the risk/reward here. Risk is obvious, and I think Nagy and Pace are going to try to use the equity they built up from this season to say the reward here is Hunt is a back that Nagy knows, fits the scheme, is cheap, and they build a contract to get out of it quick if things go south. It doesn't cost them draft capital, the contractual dollars will be very cheap.

Personally as a fan of the team, I'm not a fan of the idea, but I can envision it playing out the way I described above. At that presser today, they all but said "We're very interested".

I don't think Parkey is back. I think the Today show appearance killed any thought they had of bringing him back. I don't see how the guys in the locker room can look him in the face. I think they would have brought him to camp next year otherwise, simply because of his contract, but now I think they'll cut him, Sims, and Long, and as weird as it sounds, the Parkey cut will be the one that costs them the most money.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 14, 2019, 03:06:14 PM
Still mad about that Dion Simms contract. You signed Burton and drafted Shaheen so you didn't have to pay Simms, yet here we are a year later...
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU B2002 on January 14, 2019, 03:16:30 PM
Still mad about that Dion Simms contract. You signed Burton and drafted Shaheen so you didn't have to pay Simms, yet here we are a year later...

Would rather Dan Brown get Simms minutes.



but now I think they'll cut him, Sims, and Long, ...

Say what now?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on January 14, 2019, 03:18:01 PM
I think they will sign him, yes. My thought process here is the biggest need Nagy sees on offense is a different type of back than Howard/Cohen, and Hunt fits Nagy's scheme ideally. I think they'll go to the McCaskey's and line out the risk/reward here. Risk is obvious, and I think Nagy and Pace are going to try to use the equity they built up from this season to say the reward here is Hunt is a back that Nagy knows, fits the scheme, is cheap, and they build a contract to get out of it quick if things go south. It doesn't cost them draft capital, the contractual dollars will be very cheap.

Personally as a fan of the team, I'm not a fan of the idea, but I can envision it playing out the way I described above. At that presser today, they all but said "We're very interested".

After listening to the press conference, that was my read as well. I still don't see George signing off. But, Nagy has a lot of time to sell this.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 14, 2019, 03:41:29 PM
All 4 conference finalists being 1-4 in points scored is definitely placing the onus on the Bears to figure out a way to score more points next year, and I think Nagy/Pace realize windows close quickly, and their defense will regress in some form next year.

Long will be 30 entering the 2018 season and has been beaten up with injuries. His play hasn't been as good, be it from the injuries or age. Cutting Long would net $5.5 million in 2019 and more importantly free up $8.1 million in 2020. He may be on the roster in 2019, but he for sure will not be on it at his current contract in 2020, especially with contracts coming up next year for Floyd and Jackson.

Sims is probably the easiest cap cut you'll see, he'll create $6 mil upon being cut.

The Parkey contract is a big issue. You never want to cut someone who's dead cap is more than their cap hit, but that's the case with Parkey in 2019. Cutting him will cost $5.2 mil this year in dead cap, and other $1.1 next year. They almost have to cut Long, in order to cut Parkey. The net net then is you still have to find and pay replacements for both Long and Parkey, ideally through the draft on both.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: buckchuckler on January 14, 2019, 07:01:13 PM
All 4 conference finalists being 1-4 in points scored is definitely placing the onus on the Bears to figure out a way to score more points next year, and I think Nagy/Pace realize windows close quickly, and their defense will regress in some form next year.

Long will be 30 entering the 2018 season and has been beaten up with injuries. His play hasn't been as good, be it from the injuries or age. Cutting Long would net $5.5 million in 2019 and more importantly free up $8.1 million in 2020. He may be on the roster in 2019, but he for sure will not be on it at his current contract in 2020, especially with contracts coming up next year for Floyd and Jackson.

Sims is probably the easiest cap cut you'll see, he'll create $6 mil upon being cut.

The Parkey contract is a big issue. You never want to cut someone who's dead cap is more than their cap hit, but that's the case with Parkey in 2019. Cutting him will cost $5.2 mil this year in dead cap, and other $1.1 next year. They almost have to cut Long, in order to cut Parkey. The net net then is you still have to find and pay replacements for both Long and Parkey, ideally through the draft on both.

The easy solution is to have a kicker that can make kicks.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 14, 2019, 07:46:39 PM
Maybe I just don't know enough, but isn't it a big deal that MLB execs are going with A's execs?

Edit: I would say. Considering they're going to change their rules/laws for him: https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/kyler-murray-demands-15-million-from-the-oakland-as-or-else-hes-entering-the-nfl-draft-tomorrow

Murray opts for NFL Draft today.

Can still negotiate with A's.   I found it to be a bit over the top that MLB execs granted A's a way to do this.  Panic may be strong, but they don't want to see this kid lost out to the NFL and they are making exceptions to see that it doesn't happen.  Will it be enough?  Either way, Mr. Murray with leverage. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: withoutbias on January 14, 2019, 10:55:33 PM
seems like chicago sports teams will turn a blind eye to domestic violence if it will help their teams performance enough.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 15, 2019, 12:08:01 AM
Either way, Mr. Murray with leverage.

Good. I like it when the athlete has the leverage! I hope he gets exactly what he wants from whichever team/sport he wants.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 15, 2019, 12:19:02 AM
Good. I like it when the athlete has the leverage! I hope he gets exactly what he wants from whichever team/sport he wants.

When the athlete truly deserves it, and earned that leverage, sure.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 15, 2019, 09:31:30 AM
All 4 conference finalists being 1-4 in points scored is definitely placing the onus on the Bears to figure out a way to score more points next year, and I think Nagy/Pace realize windows close quickly, and their defense will regress in some form next year.

More interesting stat ... the four conference finalists rank 1-4 in early down success rate.
It seems obvious, but hammers home the point that teams that avoid third downs, and especially third and long, do better.

Quote
The Parkey contract is a big issue. You never want to cut someone who's dead cap is more than their cap hit, but that's the case with Parkey in 2019. Cutting him will cost $5.2 mil this year in dead cap, and other $1.1 next year. They almost have to cut Long, in order to cut Parkey. The net net then is you still have to find and pay replacements for both Long and Parkey, ideally through the draft on both.

Speaking of Parkey, I found it interesting that Nagy criticized Parley for the sin of going on the TV show while calling Kareem Hunt a "really, really good kid."
I understand it's a results business and if you want to sign Kareem Hunt because you think he'll rush for 1,300 yards and help you win games, I get that. But Nagy (and others who would sign Hunt) blowing smoke about second chances and the high character of guy who clearly doesn't have high character is stupid and can only come back to haunt him.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 15, 2019, 09:50:35 AM
More interesting stat ... the four conference finalists rank 1-4 in early down success rate.
It seems obvious, but hammers home the point that teams that avoid third downs, and especially third and long, do better.

Speaking of Parkey, I found it interesting that Nagy criticized Parley for the sin of going on the TV show while calling Kareem Hunt a "really, really good kid."
I understand it's a results business and if you want to sign Kareem Hunt because you think he'll rush for 1,300 yards and help you win games, I get that. But Nagy (and others who would sign Hunt) blowing smoke about second chances and the high character of guy who clearly doesn't have high character is stupid and can only come back to haunt him.

Both very astute points, especially the latter. Parkey made a silly decision going on Today (in my opinion), but by all other accounts, he's a model citizen/great guy. Hunt's a bad dude (and I don't mean that in the positive way when I use the term dude). I would much rather hear them just come out and say "he's got demons that needs to be addressed before we give him a chance to help us win football games". I'm not saying I'd still like having him on my team, but you're right that quotes like that will only come back to haunt him and the Bears.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 15, 2019, 10:27:18 AM
Both very astute points, especially the latter. Parkey made a silly decision going on Today (in my opinion), but by all other accounts, he's a model citizen/great guy. Hunt's a bad dude (and I don't mean that in the positive way when I use the term dude). I would much rather hear them just come out and say "he's got demons that needs to be addressed before we give him a chance to help us win football games". I'm not saying I'd still like having him on my team, but you're right that quotes like that will only come back to haunt him and the Bears.

Right ... just say you hope he's learned from his mistakes and you believe he can have a positive impact on the team. Trying to sell this as anything more than a football decision is so disinegenuous.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on January 15, 2019, 07:09:29 PM
When the athlete truly deserves it, and earned that leverage, sure.

Real question - when does an athlete have leverage, but not deserve it. Or any employee for that matter.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 16, 2019, 12:48:51 AM
Real question - when does an athlete have leverage, but not deserve it. Or any employee for that matter.

When they are along for the ride, not doing their job, but cannot be fired realistically because they are protected.  That’s one example....there are plenty currently on strike here in LA...just as there are plenty currently on strike here in LA that deserve a lot more.  That’s part of the problem, those going along for the ride get the goodies, too, have some leverage when they aren’t’t pulling their weight.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 16, 2019, 11:14:12 AM
When they are along for the ride, not doing their job, but cannot be fired realistically because they are protected.  That’s one example....there are plenty currently on strike here in LA...just as there are plenty currently on strike here in LA that deserve a lot more.  That’s part of the problem, those going along for the ride get the goodies, too, have some leverage when they aren’t’t pulling their weight.

Athletes have leverage in LA and are not doing their jobs? Huh?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on January 16, 2019, 11:41:22 AM
Athletes have leverage in LA and are not doing their jobs? Huh?

Are you really gonna pick a fight with a guy that just updated his avatar to the American flag? Sad!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 16, 2019, 12:13:46 PM
Are you really gonna pick a fight with a guy that just updated his avatar to the American flag? Sad!

I take a knee every time I see his avatar.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 16, 2019, 07:07:47 PM
Athletes have leverage in LA and are not doing their jobs? Huh?

He said for that matter any employee....all you had to do was read....it’s literally all you had to do.

I gave him an example of any employee, just as he asked.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 17, 2019, 04:16:33 PM
I take a knee every time I see his avatar.




Hoo knew, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 20, 2019, 05:26:03 PM
Man, that sucks for New Orleans... horrible non-call almost certainly cost them a trip to the Super Bowl.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu_hilltopper on January 20, 2019, 05:28:45 PM
100% the Rams should not be in the Super Bowl, full stop.   They should have an asterisk by their appearance.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 20, 2019, 05:33:47 PM
100% the Rams should not be in the Super Bowl, full stop.   They should have an asterisk by their appearance.

That was a brutal no call.  Lots of calls you can argue swing a game, but that one was exceptionally bad.  Payton's press conference, can he contain himself?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 20, 2019, 05:57:12 PM
Bad call, but put me in the camp that feels zero sympathy for Sean Payton.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 20, 2019, 06:01:18 PM
Payton says in news conference that he spoke to NFL who admitted they absolutely blew the call.  No excuse, just blew it.

As a Cowboys fan, yeah I feel it....Dez catch. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on January 20, 2019, 06:03:39 PM
Lions fan references the only faceguarding pass interference call flag ever picked up.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 20, 2019, 06:26:01 PM
I understand that missed call sucks.

But, saints could have scored more earlier. Could have stopped the Rams in regulation. Could have scored first in OT. Could have stopped the Rams in OT. 

They had multiple chances to win after that. And certainly didn't lose because of it.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 20, 2019, 06:36:09 PM
I understand that missed call sucks.

But, saints could have scored more earlier. Could have stopped the Rams in regulation. Could have scored first in OT. Could have stopped the Rams in OT. 

They had multiple chances to win after that. And certainly didn't lose because of it.

All of that is true. It’s also true that they would have won if the refs had made that call.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 20, 2019, 06:36:55 PM
That kick would have been good from 70.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 20, 2019, 06:37:12 PM
I understand that missed call sucks.

But, saints could have scored more earlier. Could have stopped the Rams in regulation. Could have scored first in OT. Could have stopped the Rams in OT. 

They had multiple chances to win after that. And certainly didn't lose because of it.

Yes, but both things can be true.  If that call wasn't missed, the chances for Saints to win is really high. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 20, 2019, 07:02:28 PM
Patriots are gonna win another one aren't they?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 20, 2019, 07:10:08 PM
Patriots are gonna win another one aren't they?

Brady gonna start and end the dynasty against the Rams huh?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on January 20, 2019, 07:23:58 PM
Patriots are gonna win another one aren't they?

The Patriots have the best offensive line in football (well top 3 for sure). They have a very strong defensive line.

That wins most of the time.

Also, KC isn't the same without Hunt.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 20, 2019, 07:39:01 PM
UGH.  Wanted to be in the ATL with New Orleans fans, would have been great.  Pats.....they look the better team thus far.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 20, 2019, 07:58:37 PM
Wow. Big play. Hope chiefs can capitalize
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 20, 2019, 08:02:40 PM
Holy crap
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 20, 2019, 08:05:06 PM
Payton says in news conference that he spoke to NFL who admitted they absolutely blew the call.  No excuse, just blew it.

As a Cowboys fan, yeah I feel it....Dez catch.

The difference, of course, was that the Dez catch was correctly ruled incomplete while they missed two flags in one play that should’ve gone in the Saints favor.

And the Boys couldn’t stop Rodgers and wouldn’t have even if the refs incorrectly ruled that play a catch.

But it’s awesome that Sean Peyton loses Playoff heartbreakers in back to back years.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on January 20, 2019, 08:10:20 PM
The rules are it has to be clear and obvious to overturn. There was no combination of angles that showed clear evidence he did not touch it.

Another example of officials using video to guess what was most likely. Patriots lucked out. That is not how the rules are supposed to work.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 20, 2019, 08:15:12 PM
The rules are it has to be clear and obvious to overturn. There was no combination of angles that showed clear evidence he did not touch it.

Another example of officials using video to guess what was most likely. Patriots lucked out. That is not how the rules are supposed to work.

Ball don't lie
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 20, 2019, 08:15:37 PM
The rules are it has to be clear and obvious to overturn. There was no combination of angles that showed clear evidence he did not touch it.

Another example of officials using video to guess what was most likely. Patriots lucked out. That is not how the rules are supposed to work.

Disagree, stitching all the angles, he didn't touch it.  Where it looked like left thumb, other angle said definitely didn't.  Where it looked like forearm, angle showed he didn't.  Stitching the angles showed he didn't, right call.

Doesn't matter, turned the ball over anyway.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 20, 2019, 08:16:14 PM
I can't wait until the PC crowd starts the Chiefs protest in the ATL. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 20, 2019, 08:16:36 PM
The rules are it has to be clear and obvious to overturn. There was no combination of angles that showed clear evidence he did not touch it.

Another example of officials using video to guess what was most likely. Patriots lucked out. That is not how the rules are supposed to work.

Combining the angles the only place it might’ve touched him was on either thumb. And the straight on angle showed it did not touch either thumb. So I agreed with the call.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 20, 2019, 08:17:05 PM
I can't wait until the PC crowd starts the Chiefs protest in the ATL.

We get it dude. You’re going to the Super Bowl.

Now that someone acknowledged this can you move on?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on January 20, 2019, 08:20:18 PM
Another BS call.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 20, 2019, 08:20:44 PM
That was such a BS call.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on January 20, 2019, 08:30:03 PM
And Romo calls what the checkdown is on the New England touchdown.   
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUEng92 on January 20, 2019, 08:53:18 PM
For a second there I thought the Super Bowl was going to be interesting again.  Oh well
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 20, 2019, 08:57:17 PM
Tony Romo is fantastic
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 20, 2019, 08:58:19 PM
Tony Romo is fantastic

This.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on January 20, 2019, 08:58:39 PM
Tony Romo is fantastic

Agreed. He knows his stuff, and is so excited its like having the smartest super fan in the world in the room with you.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on January 20, 2019, 09:00:34 PM
Romo, Collingsworth or Aikman?

Who is the best?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUEng92 on January 20, 2019, 09:01:58 PM
Romo, Collingsworth or Aikman?

Who is the best?
You are just trying to be funny right?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on January 20, 2019, 09:04:18 PM
You are just trying to be funny right?

No, I think Collingsworth and Romo are about even.  Collingsworth is excellent with the telestrator. 

Aikman ... Meh!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 20, 2019, 09:13:01 PM
You are just trying to be funny right?

He’s trying to get attention. It’s what he does.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 20, 2019, 09:14:01 PM
unnatural carnal knowledge off Brady
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on January 20, 2019, 09:14:27 PM
unnatural carnal knowledge off Brady

The Patriots offensive line is absurd.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on January 20, 2019, 09:16:10 PM
Games are lost more often than they are won.

One idiot lines up offside - a full half yard -and KC goes home instead of to the SB.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUEng92 on January 20, 2019, 09:17:31 PM
Another year of watching the Super Bowl just for the commercials #evilempire.  Too bad. KC LA would have actually been fun to watch
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: nyg on January 20, 2019, 09:18:32 PM
Jeez, how many third down conversions did NE make today?  Like 15?  Brady is just plain, stupid good. 

Ford offside, two passes to Gronk on third, not one KC sack, ugh...

KC defense was gassed, should have called a timeout way earlier.

Hate Pats, but every year, ridiculous.  A lot folks gonna be rooting for Rams. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: nyg on January 20, 2019, 09:22:43 PM
Brady was 13 for 19 on third downs.  That’s just passing to get first down.  White might have had a bunch running on third to get a first.  Crazy. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 20, 2019, 09:24:19 PM
Chiefs-saints next Sunday for 3rd place??
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUEng92 on January 20, 2019, 09:25:06 PM
I hate it when my tv picture during the Super Bowl is all red due to my rage detesting the Patriots for a generation
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 20, 2019, 09:25:13 PM
Brady GOAT


That team has trash at wide receiver, doesn’t matter.  41 years old, doesn’t matter.  GOAT
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUEng92 on January 20, 2019, 09:27:11 PM
Brady GOAT


That team has trash at wide receiver, doesn’t matter.  41 years old, doesn’t matter.  GOAT
I wish the Packers receivers could get a hold of the invisibility cloak Edelman seems to own allowing him to get to spots 10 yds away from the closet defender constantly
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu_hilltopper on January 20, 2019, 09:29:52 PM
Here's what the NFL should do with controversial plays: 

Any play, any penalty, any fumble, anything can be appealed to a 9 man average guy panel.   Any fan can apply, but they take a quiz on NFL rules .. top test takers win.  Average guys must state their favorite team and will be recused from any play that impacts them (or perhaps their team's playoff hopes.)  Maybe have a few sets of 9.

There's some command center, maybe in the middle of the courntry like STL so flights are shorter.  They are on-call for all games, awaiting a challenge.

When the challenge comes in, the guys are on TV.   They see the replays we see, the audience hears them debate eachother for a minute, then they vote. 

And they can vote on anything.  No more "non-reviewable" crap.  Reverse it, approve it, call a penalty that should have been called, whatever these 9 dudes want is what happens.

Average Guy NFL Panel, sponsored by Arby's.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 20, 2019, 09:36:25 PM
Outside of Dee Ford...the only way chiefs win that is scoring the TD at a slower pace.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: nyg on January 20, 2019, 09:38:00 PM
I wish the Packers receivers could get a hold of the invisibility cloak Edelman seems to own allowing him to get to spots 10 yds away from the closet defender constantly

Before Edelman it was Welker, Dion Branch, Kevin Faulk, Amendola, along with Gronk, Watson, Moss, Troy Brown.  Brady passes 9 yards, then 8 yards, then 9 yards, slices you up with those quick guys that always got open.  Years of the same thing. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 20, 2019, 09:39:31 PM
The conversation for greatest athlete of all time is down to two. Brady and Jordan.

Bolt and Phelps can sit at the kid’s table as an honorable mention.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 20, 2019, 09:45:07 PM
Remember when the NFL was dying?
Yeah, me brother.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 20, 2019, 10:12:30 PM
Before Edelman it was Welker, Dion Branch, Kevin Faulk, Amendola, along with Gronk, Watson, Moss, Troy Brown.  Brady passes 9 yards, then 8 yards, then 9 yards, slices you up with those quick guys that always got open.  Years of the same thing.

Exactly, its scheme.  Guys chipping down, motion, quick outs, etc...  Brady is very accurate but I firmly stand by any number of guys in this era could have had his success in that scheme and the tremendous blocking plan they have.  Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Luck.

People are predictably going crazy about Brady but those last 2 drives he literally hit first read open receivers over and over.  Edelman, Hogan, guys were wide open.  He wasn't throwing them open.  Hell, he underthrew the lob to Gronk.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 20, 2019, 10:23:16 PM
I wish the Packers receivers could get a hold of the invisibility cloak Edelman seems to own allowing him to get to spots 10 yds away from the closet defender constantly

I don't know about you, but it sure looked like every 3rd down catch that was made in that second half was an air tight window with a great throw that only his receiver could get.  Whether it was Edelman, Gronk, or fill in the receiver.  Some incredibly accurate throws in tight windows.

The guy is incredible.  He's 41 friggin years old playing QB in the NFL.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 20, 2019, 10:25:42 PM
Remember when the NFL was dying?
Yeah, me brother.

They have plenty of struggles.  This year ratings up slightly, but reach down for the 4th straight year....meaning fewer people watching (those that did watch, watched more).  Depends what you mean by dying.  10 years?  Or 50 years?  I'll go for the longer date, but they are not immune.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 20, 2019, 10:27:33 PM
Exactly, its scheme.  Guys chipping down, motion, quick outs, etc...  Brady is very accurate but I firmly stand by any number of guys in this era could have had his success in that scheme and the tremendous blocking plan they have.  Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Luck.

People are predictably going crazy about Brady but those last 2 drives he literally hit first read open receivers over and over.  Edelman, Hogan, guys were wide open.  He wasn't throwing them open.  Hell, he underthrew the lob to Gronk.

Everyone has access to film.  Why has no one been able to defeat it consistently?  Better yet, why isn't anyone else copying it with those "BETTER" QB's?

Edelman and Hogan were not always wide open in those last two drives, go back and watch.  Some tight tight windows on some of those.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 20, 2019, 10:42:41 PM
Everyone has access to film.  Why has no one been able to defeat it consistently?  Better yet, why isn't anyone else copying it with those "BETTER" QB's?

Edelman and Hogan were not always wide open in those last two drives, go back and watch.  Some tight tight windows on some of those.

Cause they don't have BB.  He's a cheating old pretty boy, but he's the best football coach of all time, bar none.

And if you say so.  Brady didn't make a wow throw the entire final drive or OT, he didn't have to.  A combination of scheme and a gassed Chiefs defense was enough.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on January 20, 2019, 11:09:34 PM
Did you know the Commissioner can overturn that call in the Saints game.  He has the authority.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/20/commissioner-has-authority-to-take-action-over-rams-saints-outcome-in-theory/
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 20, 2019, 11:36:46 PM
Interesting that both road teams won overtime games.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 21, 2019, 01:05:28 AM
Cause they don't have BB.  He's a cheating old pretty boy, but he's the best football coach of all time, bar none.

And if you say so.  Brady didn't make a wow throw the entire final drive or OT, he didn't have to.  A combination of scheme and a gassed Chiefs defense was enough.

He made some great, tight throws in that last drive...including two drops.  Here they are

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL/status/1087204112930729984?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 21, 2019, 01:05:56 AM
Interesting that both road teams won overtime games.

OT nfl style stinks
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 21, 2019, 01:06:21 AM
Did you know the Commissioner can overturn that call in the Saints game.  He has the authority.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/20/commissioner-has-authority-to-take-action-over-rams-saints-outcome-in-theory/

Would never happen
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 21, 2019, 08:48:10 AM
The only way they would ever apply that rule is if something extraordinary occurred.  That was simply a missed call.  NO still had a three point lead, and gave up a FG to tie.  They then had the ball first in OT and threw an INT.

So did the call "cost them the game?" Most likely yes, but NO had a couple opportunities to recover and they failed to do so.

Ditto KC and the overtime.  Gave up three straight third and longs - they ran the same base defense each time. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: TinyTimsLittleBrother on January 21, 2019, 08:53:35 AM
I was thinking something similar to this article last night.  Why isn't college football plagued with all these nuances to the rules?  I think it's because the NFL is simply making its rulebook more complex when it really doesn't need to.

https://deadspin.com/the-only-thing-that-can-ruin-a-great-football-game-is-f-1831922672?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

"The complexities and clunky design of football will always require the existence of a giant rulebook stuffed with inelegant solutions to unavoidable problems, but where the NFL has failed is in its insistence that the best way to fix the sport is just to create more rules, and to grant more opportunities to apply those rules through frame-by-frame scrutinization of every blade of grass on the field. The Chiefs were penalized for gently dropping a hand onto Tom Brady’s shoulder not because anyone in the stadium or on the field or in the grand expanse of the universe actually thought his health and safety were put at risk in that moment, but because the unceasing growth and mutation of the NFL rulebook demanded that the act be interpreted as such."
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on January 21, 2019, 08:55:46 AM
Full time officials.   
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 21, 2019, 09:05:40 AM
Cause they don't have BB.  He's a cheating old pretty boy, but he's the best football coach of all time, bar none.

And if you say so.  Brady didn't make a wow throw the entire final drive or OT, he didn't have to.  A combination of scheme and a gassed Chiefs defense was enough.

If it were about scheme, then why have the former Pats offensive coaches who've taken the scheme elsewhere (McDaniels, Weis, O'Brien, Daboll) been wholly unable to replicate the success they've had with Brady?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 21, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
I don't know about you, but it sure looked like every 3rd down catch that was made in that second half was an air tight window with a great throw that only his receiver could get.  Whether it was Edelman, Gronk, or fill in the receiver.  Some incredibly accurate throws in tight windows.

The guy is incredible.  He's 41 friggin years old playing QB in the NFL.



Yeah butt he's married ta Gisele. Dats gotta bee da fountain of youth, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: #UnleashSean on January 21, 2019, 09:09:58 AM
If it were about scheme, then why have the former Pats offensive coaches who've taken the scheme elsewhere (McDaniels, Weis, O'Brien, Daboll) been wholly unable to replicate the success they've had with Brady?

Because everyone hates Brady and needs to find a reason why he wins so much. So clearly its the scheme that no one can replicate that mkaes him only throw the easy passes.

Or Brady is just simply the best quarterback to play the game so far, and he doesn't have to resort to dodging in the pocket for 17 seconds and throwing up a prayer hail mary like Rodgers.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 21, 2019, 09:16:29 AM
Yeah...it's getting pretty hard to argue against Brady as the GOAT.  As much as I'd like to.  He's not the most talented or the most athletic.  But, he's the best.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 21, 2019, 09:57:52 AM
He made some great, tight throws in that last drive...including two drops.  Here they are

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL/status/1087204112930729984?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Both first downs to Edelman he had a step and a half on defenders.  The Gronk throw was tougher, but still just had to lead him cause he was a step clear.  The Patterson drop he wasn't open and Brady threw it to him.

Because everyone hates Brady and needs to find a reason why he wins so much. So clearly its the scheme that no one can replicate that mkaes him only throw the easy passes.

Or Brady is just simply the best quarterback to play the game so far, and he doesn't have to resort to dodging in the pocket for 17 seconds and throwing up a prayer hail mary like Rodgers.

I never said he only throws easy passes.  But BB has a system that allows his QB to stand in one spot and make lots of quick short throws.  Brady has had the best career, thats undeniable.  I don't think he's the best QB to ever play the game, no.  Hell, Mahomes made more big plays than Brady did yesterday, but he has eternal underachiever Andy Reid behind him, not the best coach of all time.  If you take away BB, you can't honestly tell me you'd prefer Brady to Rodgers (and I'm an f-ing Bears fan).

If the Chiefs INT that the offsides actually didn't truly impact the throw at all had stood, I wonder if people would be falling all over themselves to praise Brady.  The man is a hardcore competitor and perfectly executes a system he has played in for 20 years,  I just contend that its more BB than it is Brady bailing him out.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on January 21, 2019, 10:02:06 AM
Cause they don't have BB.  He's a cheating old pretty boy, but he's the best football coach of all time, bar none.

And if you say so.  Brady didn't make a wow throw the entire final drive or OT, he didn't have to.  A combination of scheme and a gassed Chiefs defense was enough.

Greg Maddux never threw a wow pitch, Nolan Ryan threw thousands. Remind me of the great QBs BB "made" pre Brady - I thought BB was a defensive coach.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 21, 2019, 10:09:52 AM
Only my opinions ...

Brady is the best QB ever, and No. 2, whomever that might be, isn't especially close. He has the stats, the championships, the Super Bowl appearances, and he has done it with a huge variety of WRs, RBs and offensive lines over the years. The Patriots let players come and go, except one, and they keep winning and winning. And this guy just keeps delivering -- for 2 effen decades now -- which pisses this Pats-hater off!

Great teams can overcome a call like the one against the Saints. It was a terrible call, about as egregious a missed call can be, but as others have pointed out they had PLENTY of chances to still win the game. Sports history is filled with truly great teams overcoming bad calls. You'd think a team coached by the (punchable) genius, Sean Payton, would be able to do that.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 21, 2019, 10:12:31 AM
You'd think a team coached by the (punchable) genius, Sean Payton, would be able to do that.

Ha, seeing him lose makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

I know it's pretty common knowledge that he's a prick, but when did that start coming out? Because I remember pretty clearly cheering for the Saint when they won Superbowl XLIV
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Goose on January 21, 2019, 10:21:35 AM
MU82

I am with you 100% on Brady to be the best QB ever. Truthfully, what he is doing is one of the most amazing sport performances I have ever seen. I have often said that Michael Jordan was the greatest team sport player ever, but I am started to lean towards Brady surpassing him.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 21, 2019, 10:31:21 AM
The man is a hardcore competitor and perfectly executes a system he has played in for 20 years,  I just contend that its more BB than it is Brady bailing him out.

If it's predominantly the system and not the quarterback, why can't it be replicated with another quarterback?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 21, 2019, 10:48:16 AM
Greg Maddux never threw a wow pitch, Nolan Ryan threw thousands. Remind me of the great QBs BB "made" pre Brady - I thought BB was a defensive coach.

Maddux threw plenty.  Dude was a marksman even if he didn't throw 103.  He was cerebral and knew tendencies...almost a system if you will.

BB knows football period. He was developing that system in Cleveland, he just wasn't ready.  Happens all the time, look at Pete Carroll

If it's predominantly the system and not the quarterback, why can't it be replicated with another quarterback?

Like 11-5 with Cassell?  Like 3-1 with inexperienced Jimmy G and Jacoby Brissett?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 21, 2019, 10:49:07 AM
I was just gonna mention the Cassell year as well. That earned him a pretty ridiculous contract.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on January 21, 2019, 10:50:26 AM
Did you know the Commissioner can overturn that call in the Saints game.  He has the authority.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/20/commissioner-has-authority-to-take-action-over-rams-saints-outcome-in-theory/

Sports talk radio is wondering why the NFL is taking so long to issue a statement on this call (unless they already have).  Some are speculating about a replay.  Others are thinking they will announce a bunch of officials are getting fired but the officials union is protesting (and may even boycott the Super Bowl).

This story is not over.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 21, 2019, 11:02:43 AM
Like 11-5 with Cassell? 

Well, 10-5. but still ...they were the 12th-ranked passing offense with Cassell, after being 1st the year before with Brady and third the year after with Brady.
4,731 yards passing in 2007
3,569 yards passing in 2008
4,436 yards passing in 2009.

QB no matta?


Quote
Like 3-1 with inexperienced Jimmy G and Jacoby Brissett?

Brissett was thoroughly mediocre, throwing for zero TDs and 400 yards in about 10+ quarters of football.
Jimmy G played 1+ games and was good, but way too small of a sample size. and his success in SF indicates he's a pretty good QB and not a product of the New England system, which sorta wrecks your argument.

Why not talk about McDaniels' 28 games in Denver, or Brian Daboll's five seasons as an NFL coordinator, or Bill O'Brien's five seasons in Houston, in which his offenses have ranked 17th, 19th, 29th, 20th and 15th? Or the Charlie Weis' one season as OC in Kansas City, when they had the league's 30th ranked offense?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on January 21, 2019, 12:55:32 PM
Brady may be the GOAT........

But, Mahoney was the better QB yesterday.

He was harassed on at least half of his throws yesterday and still put as many points on the board in regulation. Brady was able to throw like it was a walk-through practice. The only time I remember anyone from the defense even get close? A bogus roughing the passer call that helped decide the game.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 21, 2019, 01:04:39 PM
Brady doesn't get touched because he gets the ball out.

Let's keep in mind that Mahomes took a sack to take the Chiefs out of field goal range in a game that went to overtime.  And it wasn't just some 3 yard, he stepped up in the pocket to try to keep them in field goal range but there was just nothing there.  He got pressured up the middle and tried to run backwards and took a 10+ yard sack while they were in field goal range.  Brady doesn't do that, the Pats get the points, and this is why they're champions.  Discipline is part of being a great quarterback.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 21, 2019, 01:09:54 PM
Well, 10-5. but still ...they were the 12th-ranked passing offense with Cassell, after being 1st the year before with Brady and third the year after with Brady.
4,731 yards passing in 2007
3,569 yards passing in 2008
4,436 yards passing in 2009.

QB no matta?


Brissett was thoroughly mediocre, throwing for zero TDs and 400 yards in about 10+ quarters of football.
Jimmy G played 1+ games and was good, but way too small of a sample size. and his success in SF indicates he's a pretty good QB and not a product of the New England system, which sorta wrecks your argument.

Why not talk about McDaniels' 28 games in Denver, or Brian Daboll's five seasons as an NFL coordinator, or Bill O'Brien's five seasons in Houston, in which his offenses have ranked 17th, 19th, 29th, 20th and 15th? Or the Charlie Weis' one season as OC in Kansas City, when they had the league's 30th ranked offense?

For the record, I'm never saying Brady is barely replacement level.  I fully admit that he's a great QB, just not heads and tails better than his high level peers.  Cassell was thoroughly mediocre (his only good post-Pats season was 2010 with an All Pro RB and an All Pro WR) and still had by far his best season and shepherded that Pats team to a near Playoff berth.  I'm not saying the Pats do what they do with Colt McCoy or Blake Bortles.  But I think they do with Brees, Rodgers, or even Matt Ryan if you wanna get spicy.  Brady's greatest strength in my opinion has been his longevity and relative durability

As for JG and Brissett, the offense didn't fall apart like most good teams with a good QB do.

Lets see, Brian Daboll isn't a good coordinator.  He was never an OC with the Pats, he was so bad he was brought in as an offensive assistant after being in the league 12 years.  Bill O'Brien had scrubs at QB until this years.  Josh McDaniels lit a franchise on fire the minute he walked in and never had any respect or buy-in.  And I don't even know what to say about Weis who has been a joke since the debacle at ND.

From all accounts BB is a dictator and an overlord, to great success.  Its no surprise to see his acolytes fail to blossom away from him.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on January 21, 2019, 01:15:05 PM
Brady doesn't get touched because he gets the ball out.

Let's keep in mind that Mahomes took a sack to take the Chiefs out of field goal range in a game that went to overtime.  And it wasn't just some 3 yard, he stepped up in the pocket to try to keep them in field goal range but there was just nothing there.  He got pressured up the middle and tried to run backwards and took a 10+ yard sack while they were in field goal range.  Brady doesn't do that, the Pats get the points, and this is why they're champions.  Discipline is part of being a great quarterback.

Brady threw downfield many times with no pressure whatsoever. Mahoney faced constant pressure - even on quick throws.

I also never said Brady wasn’t a great QB. Just said Mahomes was the better QB in this game.

Brady needed a bogus call to help him win. LA needed a bogus call in order to win. That does not mean they were the better teams.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 21, 2019, 01:31:21 PM
But, Mahoney was the better QB yesterday.

Well, those Irish kids often make good quarterbacks.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 21, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
Brady threw downfield many times with no pressure whatsoever. Mahoney faced constant pressure - even on quick throws.

I also never said Brady wasn’t a great QB. Just said Mahomes was the better QB in this game.

Brady needed a bogus call to help him win. LA needed a bogus call in order to win. That does not mean they were the better teams.

Did Brady really need a bogus call to help him win?  The call was on 2nd and 7 in a 4 point game with 8 minutes left in the game.  Given that the Chiefs got the Patriots to 3rd and medium/long multiple times on each of their last 3 drives and never got off the field, are we sure they would've gotten off the field there?  The fact of the matter is the Patriots last 3 drives resulted in touchdowns.  There's a lot more evidence to suggest that the Chiefs weren't stopping the Patriots than there is to suggest the Patriots needed that call to win the game.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 21, 2019, 01:47:31 PM
Bill O'Brien had scrubs at QB until this years.

So quarterbacks make a difference?
I read somewhere it was the scheme.

Quote
  Lets see, Brian Daboll isn't a good coordinator.  He was never an OC with the Pats, he was so bad he was brought in as an offensive assistant after being in the league 12 years. Josh McDaniels lit a franchise on fire the minute he walked in and never had any respect or buy-in.  And I don't even know what to say about Weis who has been a joke since the debacle at ND.

So, basically Tom Brady has had a bunch of clowns as his offensive coaches over the years, and his success is a result of the schemes and playcalling implemented by a bunch of clowns?

The funny thing is, the Patriots don't really have a single offensive scheme. A huge part of their success has been their ability to adapt what they do to the talent on the field. When they had Moss and Stallworth, they were one of the greatest vertical passing teams the league's ever seen. When they had Gronk in his prime paired with pre-murder Hernandez, they killed you with double tight end sets. Now with Edelman and White, they're masters of the dink and dunk.

This, of course, takes an exceptionally talented and versatile quarterback to pull off. Maybe one of these days they'll find one. For now, they're stuck with a system guy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 21, 2019, 02:28:11 PM
41 years old

41 years old

41 years old

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 21, 2019, 02:31:46 PM
Bears in London next year. First time Mack will have to face the Raiders as well. Gruden better draft about five offensive linemen this go around, cause it could get ugly.

Great excuse to go visit some of my friends from grad school.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on January 21, 2019, 03:39:57 PM


The funny thing is, the Patriots don't really have a single offensive scheme. A huge part of their success has been their ability to adapt what they do to the talent on the field. When they had Moss and Stallworth, they were one of the greatest vertical passing teams the league's ever seen. When they had Gronk in his prime paired with pre-murder Hernandez, they killed you with double tight end sets. Now with Edelman and White, they're masters of the dink and dunk.



Excellent post.  Always thought BB’s best ability was adjusting to the talent he had.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 21, 2019, 03:44:12 PM
So quarterbacks make a difference?
I read somewhere it was the scheme.

So, basically Tom Brady has had a bunch of clowns as his offensive coaches over the years, and his success is a result of the schemes and playcalling implemented by a bunch of clowns?

The funny thing is, the Patriots don't really have a single offensive scheme. A huge part of their success has been their ability to adapt what they do to the talent on the field. When they had Moss and Stallworth, they were one of the greatest vertical passing teams the league's ever seen. When they had Gronk in his prime paired with pre-murder Hernandez, they killed you with double tight end sets. Now with Edelman and White, they're masters of the dink and dunk.

This, of course, takes an exceptionally talented and versatile quarterback to pull off. Maybe one of these days they'll find one. For now, they're stuck with a system guy.

Are you purposefully ignoring where Ive NEVER said Brady wasn't a great QB?  My only contention is he's not the best of all time cause he plays in a scheme where others would be successful.  I could have the most perfect scheme ever but I'm gonna run it better with an above average QB than I am with Nathan Peterman.

Daboll was never Brady's coordinator or coach. Lets see what O'Brien does with more than one year of a QB who isn't Tom Savage or Brandon Weeden. And McDaniels is a good OC who failed outside of NE for reasons that had nothing to do with playcalling.  And why is he a good OC?  Cause he has been with Belicheck executing his vision for all but 3 of his 18 seasons of NFL experience.

I also find it odd to call Brady exceptionally versatile when they've never been able to roll him out or move the pocket around.  He makes Manning look fleet of foot.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on January 21, 2019, 04:03:46 PM

This, of course, takes an exceptionally talented and versatile quarterback to pull off. Maybe one of these days they'll find one. For now, they're stuck with a system guy.

To be fair, anyone and everyone that has had to fill in for him over the years has had tremendous success, leading to mega deals elsewhere in some cases, where in most cases they flopped. 

I'm not saying it is necessarily a system-thing (although it helps). But it is an offensive line thing. For almost all of his career, he has been behind one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, the seasons he wasn't he struggled a lot more. That is the biggest deal in the NFL, the offensive line. Give elite QBs time and comfort and they will look all world, even if they are middle of the pack talent.

That is why "intelligence" is one of the big factors for success as a QB. Given protection, an intelligent QB will pick apart any defense.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 21, 2019, 04:52:25 PM
To be fair, anyone and everyone that has had to fill in for him over the years has had tremendous success, leading to mega deals elsewhere in some cases, where in most cases they flopped. 

This isn't true.
In the Brady era, here are the QB ratings of guys other than Brady who have thrown 50+ passes Patriots:
Matt Cassel: 88.2
Brian Hoyer: 80.1
Jimmy Garoppolo: 106.2
Jacoby Brissett: 83.9

Brady's career QBR = 97.6.

So, only one had anything close to tremendous success, and the others were wholly average or worse. And given Jimmy G's success in a different system with a different team, its fair to argue that he had tremendous success because he's good.
FWIW, if you want me to throw in the guys who've thrown fewer than 50 passes, all-timers like Rohan Davey, Kevin O'Connell, Brock Huard and Ryan Mallet, I can do that, but it won't help your case.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 21, 2019, 05:06:36 PM
Are you purposefully ignoring where Ive NEVER said Brady wasn't a great QB?  My only contention is he's not the best of all time cause he plays in a scheme where others would be successful.  I could have the most perfect scheme ever but I'm gonna run it better with an above average QB than I am with Nathan Peterman.

Others haven't been nearly as successful in the same scheme, whether it be in New England or elsewhere.
But fine, I'm fairly certain you could make a similar argument for any great QB.
Who's your greatest, then?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 21, 2019, 05:15:11 PM
Haven't seen a single argument yet that comes close to proving that Brady is anything but the greatest ever.

Opinions are opinions. We all have 'em, and that's cool. My opinion is that the guy who has won 5 SBs (perhaps going on 6), has competed in (now) 4 others, has passed for 70K yards and 500+ TDs in the regular season, and has led some of the most remarkable, memorable postseason drives in history ... that guy is the best ever. All despite playing under a variety of offensive coordinators and alongside dozens of "skill" position players, some of whom might never have been any good at all had other QBs throwing to them.

And I say all this as a guy who hates the Patriots.

I'm open-minded. If somebody can make a convincing, "Oh, Brady's only the 6th best ever" argument, I'm open to it. But lots of folks are throwing out all kinds of stuff so far that doesn't come anywhere near convincing me.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 21, 2019, 05:23:52 PM
Others haven't been nearly as successful in the same scheme, whether it be in New England or elsewhere.
But fine, I'm fairly certain you could make a similar argument for any great QB.
Who's your greatest, then?

I think Rodgers is probably the most talented.  I think there is a grouping of Brady, Brees, Montana, Manning, and Rodgers that you could all make arguments for.  I think this open and closed, unquestioned GOAT label always put on Brady is overdone, thats all.

This isn't true.
In the Brady era, here are the QB ratings of guys other than Brady who have thrown 50+ passes Patriots:
Matt Cassel: 88.2
Brian Hoyer: 80.1
Jimmy Garoppolo: 106.2
Jacoby Brissett: 83.9

Brady's career QBR = 97.6.

So, only one had anything close to tremendous success, and the others were wholly average or worse. And given Jimmy G's success in a different system with a different team, its fair to argue that he had tremendous success because he's good.

Cassell's Pats passer rating would be in the top 25 career passer ratings.  Hell, he was top 10 in the league in passing that year.  In no way was he wholly average.  The rest of his career, definitely so.  And Brian Hoyer never started a game so thats far from representative.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 21, 2019, 05:41:23 PM
I think Rodgers is probably the most talented.  I think there is a grouping of Brady, Brees, Montana, Manning, and Rodgers that you could all make arguments for.  I think this open and closed, unquestioned GOAT label always put on Brady is overdone, thats all.

I've always thought Marino was the "most talented." A golden arm. Quickest release ever. Just about never got sacked because of that quick release and amazing pocket awareness. His second season in the league, he had a season that was statistically so superior to any other QB who had ever played that it started the scramble for this very copy-cat league to figure out how to compete with the Marino-led Miami offense. He broke the mold and ushered in a new era. He also went 14-2 and led the Dolphins to the SB that year.

But I'd never argue he was the best ever or even particularly close. One SB appearance, in his 2nd NFL season, and then a string of postseason defeats, often by lopsided scores. Just doesn't cut it.

Not easy to compare eras, though. Marino's center during his first 5 seasons was Dwight Stephenson, a perennial All-Pro who weighed 250 pounds. Can you imagine?

How good would Unitas or Bradshaw or Archie Manning have been playing in this pass-first, "can't touch the QB" era and if they (Manning especially) had been surrounded by great teammates? So we can only go with the results we've had.

Brady is No. 1 and, as I said, I think by a wide margin. Then maybe Montana and Peyton Manning. Then any of several others. I always thought Staubach was incredible, and I hated the Cowboys.

All I'll say is that any objective observer who really watched Marino's best dozen+ years and also have witnessed Rodgers' career, what criteria would place Rodgers ahead of Marino? Rodgers' 1 SB title? OK, then Brady "obviously" is miles better than Rodgers because he's got 5 of 'em.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 21, 2019, 05:49:54 PM
Cassell's Pats passer rating would be in the top 25 career passer ratings.
Comparing career passer ratings across eras is kind of worthless, though. Kirk Cousins has a better career rating than Kurt Warner, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Brett Favre and Jim Kelly.
Heck, Cassel's rating is better than Marino, Kelly and Favre.

But OK, he was 9th one season, with an 89.4 rating. He threw 21 TDs and 11 INTs.
The year before, with the same supporting cast, Brady posted a 117.2 rating. He threw 50 TDs and 8 INTs.
Same system, same coaches, same offensive weapons .... not the same production. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 21, 2019, 06:16:34 PM
But OK, he was 9th one season, with an 89.4 rating. He threw 21 TDs and 11 INTs.
The year before, with the same supporting cast, Brady posted a 117.2 rating. He threw 50 TDs and 8 INTs.
Same system, same coaches, same offensive weapons .... not the same production.

Dude, for the last time.  Ive never said Brady was an average QB or just another guy.  And I'm not saying Kirk Cousins comes in and has the same career.  But the system definitely made an average at best guy, like Cassell, above average.  That doesn't mean Brady=Cassell.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on January 21, 2019, 06:23:04 PM
I think pats success across QBs under belicheck is a testament to belichecks ability to build/improve a team and scheme against opponent's.

I think qb success for pats/belicheck is also evidence of the same (as evidenced by most of those QBs failing elsewhere)

I think Brady's significant statistical improvement over other QBs in the pats/belicheck system is a testament to Brady's ability.

I think coordinators under belicheck failing elsewhere is a testament to belichecks ability and evidence of how much he micromanages.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 21, 2019, 07:09:49 PM
Bears in London next year. First time Mack will have to face the Raiders as well. Gruden better draft about five offensive linemen this go around, cause it could get ugly.

Great excuse to go visit some of my friends from grad school.

Hoping to see the double, Bears and Tottenham at their new stadium on the same weekend. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on January 21, 2019, 07:31:01 PM
Haven't seen a single argument yet that comes close to proving that Brady is anything but the greatest ever.

Opinions are opinions. We all have 'em, and that's cool. My opinion is that the guy who has won 5 SBs (perhaps going on 6), has competed in (now) 4 others, has passed for 70K yards and 500+ TDs in the regular season, and has led some of the most remarkable, memorable postseason drives in history ... that guy is the best ever. All despite playing under a variety of offensive coordinators and alongside dozens of "skill" position players, some of whom might never have been any good at all had other QBs throwing to them.

And I say all this as a guy who hates the Patriots.

I'm open-minded. If somebody can make a convincing, "Oh, Brady's only the 6th best ever" argument, I'm open to it. But lots of folks are throwing out all kinds of stuff so far that doesn't come anywhere near convincing me.

Very well said, Mike. Five years ago my opinion was that Joe Montana was the GOAT. What Brady has accomplished when most would be retired or greatly diminished has convinced me otherwise.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on January 21, 2019, 07:42:03 PM
Very well said, Mike. Five years ago my opinion was that Joe Montana was the GOAT. What Brady has accomplished when most would be retired or greatly diminished has convinced me otherwise.

No question Brady is the GOAT.

The better question is who overtakes him for this moniker?  Mahomes?  Trevor Lawrence? Someone else?  Or no one currently on the radar?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 21, 2019, 09:37:10 PM
No question Brady is the GOAT.

The better question is who overtakes him for this moniker?  Mahomes?  Trevor Lawrence? Someone else?  Or no one currently on the radar?

He might still be playing when those guys retire
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 22, 2019, 09:17:21 AM
Dude, for the last time.  Ive never said Brady was an average QB or just another guy.  And I'm not saying Kirk Cousins comes in and has the same career.  But the system definitely made an average at best guy, like Cassell, above average.  That doesn't mean Brady=Cassell.

Dude, I've never said you're calling Brady an average QB.
I'm saying that the argument that Brady's greatness is because of the system is a bad take.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 22, 2019, 09:23:27 AM
Dude, I've never said you're calling Brady an average QB.
I'm saying that the argument that Brady's greatness is because of the system is a bad take.

It's one of those impossible to prove (or disprove) takes that those pushing another QB or those simply hating Brady like to throw out there. They can say it and it sounds good to them and makes them feel better about whichever QBs they want to tout ahead of him. Accomplishments, championships and statistics be damned!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on January 22, 2019, 09:54:41 AM
Dude, I've never said you're calling Brady an average QB.
I'm saying that the argument that Brady's greatness is because of the system is a bad take.

Ok, fair enough, thats not how it read earlier.

It's one of those impossible to prove (or disprove) takes that those pushing another QB or those simply hating Brady like to throw out there. They can say it and it sounds good to them and makes them feel better about whichever QBs they want to tout ahead of him. Accomplishments, championships and statistics be damned!

Come on Mike.  You sound like my Pats fan friends now.  You can think Brady isn't the greatest without it being some petty hate.  Its the same argument as Lebron proponents take (which all your Brady championing sounds similar to.)  One of them told me yesterday that if you either love watching Brady and the Pats or you really enjoying hating them and hating them is fun for you  ::)

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on January 22, 2019, 10:12:46 AM
But OK, he was 9th one season, with an 89.4 rating. He threw 21 TDs and 11 INTs.
The year before, with the same supporting cast, Brady posted a 117.2 rating. He threw 50 TDs and 8 INTs.
Same system, same coaches, same offensive weapons .... not the same production.

First, no one said Brady was an average QB. He has been called elite by everyone. The debate is on GOAT. And to ignore that is very system and offensive line dependent is ignorant of how Football is played. Not to mention it is essentially impossible to compare across eras.

Regarding your comment above. The season before the 117.2 rating, Brady had a 87.9 rating. The year after Cassel with the same supporting cast he had a 96.2 rating, with 28 TDs and 13 INT, behind the 3rd best OL in football.

Also, there is a difference between GOAT and most successful of all time.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Goose on January 22, 2019, 10:19:11 AM
Whenever I try to make conclusion on value of a player, I always try and listen to guys who have played the game at the highest level possible. I remember watching Woodson and Moss the day of Pack/Pats game this season, and both basically laughed off Rodgers being in same discussion with Brady. Matt Hasselbeck echoed their comments. Tom Brady has done things that truly are remarkable, and has done it for over two decades.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 22, 2019, 10:49:20 AM
First, no one said Brady was an average QB. He has been called elite by everyone. The debate is on GOAT. And to ignore that is very system and offensive line dependent is ignorant of how Football is played. Not to mention it is essentially impossible to compare across eras.

Regarding your comment above. The season before the 117.2 rating, Brady had a 87.9 rating. The year after Cassel with the same supporting cast he had a 96.2 rating, with 28 TDs and 13 INT, behind the 3rd best OL in football.

Also, there is a difference between GOAT and most successful of all time.

No one accused anyone here of calling Brady an average QB. Why do you guys keep harping on that?

Regarding Brady's 2006 and 2009 seasons ...
2006 had a very different supporting cast (no Moss, no Welker, top receivers were Reche Caldwell and a 35-year-old Troy Brown)
2009 he had a much better year than Cassel, in his first action returning from tearing both his ACL and MCL. This proves the system argument how?

I'm not even arguing GOAT or not here. I'm telling you that efforts to minimize Brady's success - and that's what you guys are trying to do - by crediting the "system" are bad, disproven takes.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on January 22, 2019, 10:54:48 AM
No one accused anyone here of calling Brady an average QB. Why do you guys keep harping on that?

Regarding Brady's 2006 and 2009 seasons ...
2006 had a very different supporting cast (no Moss, no Welker, top receivers were Reche Caldwell and a 35-year-old Troy Brown)
2009 he had a much better year than Cassel, in his first action returning from tearing both his ACL and MCL. This proves the system argument how?

I'm not even arguing GOAT or not here. I'm telling you that efforts to minimize Brady's success - and that's what you guys are trying to do - by crediting the "system" are bad, disproven takes.

Serious questions. If you replaced Brady with Manning, or Brady with Favre, or Brady with Rodgers, or Brady with Brees. Training in the same system and with the same supporting casts. Do you think any of them would have been less successful than Brady?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 22, 2019, 11:04:45 AM
Serious questions. If you replaced Brady with Manning, or Brady with Favre, or Brady with Rodgers, or Brady with Brees. Training in the same system and with the same supporting casts. Do you think any of them would have been less successful than Brady?

I would be surprised if they matched Brady's success, but I have no way of giving an intelligent answer. I don't think anyone could give an intelligent answer.
I think we can agree the other QBs you mention, with perhaps the exception of Rodgers, certainly haven't lacked for outstanding supporting casts and coaching, yet failed to come close to matching Brady's success.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on January 22, 2019, 11:09:50 AM
I would be surprised if they matched Brady's success, but I have no way of giving an intelligent answer. I don't think anyone could give an intelligent answer.
I think we can agree the other QBs you mention, with perhaps the exception of Rodgers, certainly haven't lacked for outstanding supporting casts and coaching, yet failed to come close to matching Brady's success.

Manning, Brees, and Rodgers did not have great supporting casts.

For Manning alone. Five different head coaches (Super Bowl with 4 of them). Three different offensive systems he had to learn.

But you are right, there is no way to give an intelligent answer. And that is the point. It is entirely dependent on the system, the coaching, the supporting casts, and most importantly the OL.

There is no doubt that Brady has been the most successful, but it is an absurdly bad take to say that isn't to a large extent part of the system, coaching, and his OL.

Put Brady on the Jets, Lions, Bears, or Tampa Bay. And he was out of the league 6-8 years ago. Not because of talent, but because of systems etc. Same is true for Manning, Brees, Rodgers and any of the other greats.

That is why I hate GOAT discussions.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 22, 2019, 11:33:05 AM
Manning, Brees, and Rodgers did not have great supporting casts.

Huh?
Manning had Hall of Famer Marshall Faulk; four-time Pro Bowler Edgerrin James; Hall of Famer Marvin Harrison; six-time Pro Bowler Reggie Wayne; Pro Bowl tight end Dallas Clark. etc. He was coached by the likes of Hall of Famer Tony Dungy, Tom Moore and Bruce Arians.
Brees has had multiple All Pro/ Pro Bowl linemen (Jahari Evans, Jamaal Brown, Jermon Bushrod, to name a few); Pro Bowl backs like Kamara, Ingram; Pro Bowl receivers and TEs (Thomas, Graham).  And he's been coached by a potentially HOF offensive guru in Payton. 

This is getting just dumb at this point. If you don't like Brady, fine. But I'm not going to waste time with people who want to argue things that are provably false or state as fact obvious speculation (i.e put Brady on the Jets and he's out of the league eight years ago is a hot take that would make Mike Francesca proud).

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: BM1090 on January 22, 2019, 11:37:39 AM
Serious questions. If you replaced Brady with Manning, or Brady with Favre, or Brady with Rodgers, or Brady with Brees. Training in the same system and with the same supporting casts. Do you think any of them would have been less successful than Brady?

To me the better question is, do you think if Brady replaced Brees in NO running Payton's system or Rodgers in GB running MM's system, do you think either team would have been more successful?



Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: #UnleashSean on January 22, 2019, 11:51:16 AM
Serious questions. If you replaced Brady with Manning, or Brady with Favre, or Brady with Rodgers, or Brady with Brees. Training in the same system and with the same supporting casts. Do you think any of them would have been less successful than Brady?

Favre would because of his wonton disregard for the ball.

Rodgers would because of his refusal to make any risky throws.

Manning may have been as good as Brady under that system.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: #UnleashSean on January 22, 2019, 11:52:33 AM
Manning, Brees, and Rodgers did not have great supporting casts.


 :o
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on January 22, 2019, 12:07:51 PM
Huh?
Manning had Hall of Famer Marshall Faulk; four-time Pro Bowler Edgerrin James; Hall of Famer Marvin Harrison; six-time Pro Bowler Reggie Wayne; Pro Bowl tight end Dallas Clark. etc. He was coached by the likes of Hall of Famer Tony Dungy, Tom Moore and Bruce Arians.
Brees has had multiple All Pro/ Pro Bowl linemen (Jahari Evans, Jamaal Brown, Jermon Bushrod, to name a few); Pro Bowl backs like Kamara, Ingram; Pro Bowl receivers and TEs (Thomas, Graham).  And he's been coached by a potentially HOF offensive guru in Payton. 

This is getting just dumb at this point. If you don't like Brady, fine. But I'm not going to waste time with people who want to argue things that are provably false or state as fact obvious speculation (i.e put Brady on the Jets and he's out of the league eight years ago is a hot take that would make Mike Francesca proud).

Manning, Five different coaches. Three different systems.  I don't think you have any understanding of how difficult that is to do.

You haven't proven anything false. Because it is not possible, as you admitted, there is no way to provide an intelligent answer. You just claim to prove things false, with your opinions.

I'm not even sure why someone would make an argument that the play and success of a QB is NOT very system, coaching, and OL dependent. It defies any semblance of logic and reality.

I'm just confused as to why you wouldn't just admit, that comparing greats is pure opinion, because success and performance is very system, coaching, and OL dependent.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on January 22, 2019, 12:14:40 PM
:o

I meant to write "as great of".

It is impossible to be a top tier anything without greats around you, because by default they are statistics based and for a QB to be great, someone has to catch the ball. Similarly, for a PG to be great, someone needs to make some shots.

The rest is pure opinion and speculation. As is everything in comparing greats.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on January 22, 2019, 12:24:00 PM
The Patriots “system” has changed many times in Brady’s time with the Patriots. So I guess Brady is a product of multiple systemS?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 22, 2019, 12:35:30 PM
Manning, Five different coaches. Three different systems.  I don't think you have any understanding of how difficult that is to do.

Manning ran Tom Moore's system for his entire career in Indianapolis and was the de facto offensive coordinator in Denver.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 22, 2019, 12:38:01 PM
Come on Mike.  You sound like my Pats fan friends now.  You can think Brady isn't the greatest without it being some petty hate.  Its the same argument as Lebron proponents take (which all your Brady championing sounds similar to.)  One of them told me yesterday that if you either love watching Brady and the Pats or you really enjoying hating them and hating them is fun for you  ::)

Wags:

Re-reading my comment, my tone was poor. So let me start with apologizing for that. And I'm not a fan of using "hate," even in what's now the accepted colloquielism "hater" (which really means somebody who rips on, dislikes, is skeptical about, criticizes, etc), so I'll try to stop using it. As for the rest ...

I am not even close to a Pats fan. I really dislike the team, Belichick, Kraft, the special treatment they seem to receive, etc. I was rooting hard for the Chiefs -- actually stood up from the couch and applauded when I thought they had sealed the win with that INT near the end of regulation. But as a football fan and a guy who has observed the sport pretty closely for a long time, I greatly admire Brady and his body of work. And I still haven't seen or heard a convincing argument here that he is anything but what his incredible resume says he is: the best QB ever.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 22, 2019, 12:42:40 PM
forgetful (and others arguing against Brady as best ever):

Everything in this part of the thread on Brady is opinion except this:

70K yards and 500+ TDs in the regular season ... 9 Super Bowl appearances ... 5 (perhaps 6) Super Bowl wins ... division championships almost every year ... revolving door of supporting casts over two decades.

Now, folks might look at that list of accomplishments and dismiss them as not "proving" anything. Which is OK. We all have opinions. But those dismissals are mere opinions. What I just listed were facts that are pretty hard to knock, and no other QB in NFL history can match 'em.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on January 22, 2019, 01:02:04 PM
forgetful (and others arguing against Brady as best ever):

Everything in this part of the thread on Brady is opinion except this:

70K yards and 500+ TDs in the regular season ... 9 Super Bowl appearances ... 5 (perhaps 6) Super Bowl wins ... division championships almost every year ... revolving door of supporting casts over two decades.

Now, folks might look at that list of accomplishments and dismiss them as not "proving" anything. Which is OK. We all have opinions. But those dismissals are mere opinions. What I just listed were facts that are pretty hard to knock, and no other QB in NFL history can match 'em.

Just for the record. I never argued anything regarding WHO was GOAT. I am stating that such an argument is purely conjecture and opinion, because it is highly dependent on system, talent, OL and other factors that make any definitive stance impossible.

As I said before there is a difference between most successful, and greatest.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on January 22, 2019, 01:26:30 PM
Just for the record. I never argued anything regarding WHO was GOAT. I am stating that such an argument is purely conjecture and opinion, because it is highly dependent on system, talent, OL and other factors that make any definitive stance impossible.

As I said before there is a difference between most successful, and greatest.

Of course it's all opinion.

I simply would argue the facts support my opinion better than those who opine that Brady is not the greatest.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 23, 2019, 12:52:25 PM
Just for the record. I never argued anything regarding WHO was GOAT. I am stating that such an argument is purely conjecture and opinion, because it is highly dependent on system, talent, OL and other factors that make any definitive stance impossible.

As I said before there is a difference between most successful, and greatest.

Yep. I suspect that if Dan Marino had the kind of support and coaching that guys like Brady and Montana have had, he would at least be in the discussion.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on January 23, 2019, 01:19:26 PM
Yep. I suspect that if Dan Marino had the kind of support and coaching that guys like Brady and Montana have had, he would at least be in the discussion.

Was Marino's support and coaching bad?
Don Shula was a pretty OK football coach. And Marino played with guys like Dwight Stephenson (HOF center), Richmond Webb (7 Pro Bowls at left tackle), Mark Clayton and Mark 'Super' Duper at receiver (5 and 3 Pro Bowls, respectively) and some other decentoffensive weapons (Ferell Edmunds, Irvin Fryar)
Marino never had much of a running game, but the reason he never won a title had more to do with bumping up against better teams (the four-time Super Bowl losing Bills, for one) and a handful of clunker games in the playoffs.

Also, he should have turned the laces out.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on January 23, 2019, 02:48:37 PM
Was Marino's support and coaching bad?
Don Shula was a pretty OK football coach. And Marino played with guys like Dwight Stephenson (HOF center), Richmond Webb (7 Pro Bowls at left tackle), Mark Clayton and Mark 'Super' Duper at receiver (5 and 3 Pro Bowls, respectively) and some other decentoffensive weapons (Ferell Edmunds, Irvin Fryar)
Marino never had much of a running game, but the reason he never won a title had more to do with bumping up against better teams (the four-time Super Bowl losing Bills, for one) and a handful of clunker games in the playoffs.

Also, he should have turned the laces out.

He also constantly audibled out of the run because his ego was out of control
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU B2002 on January 25, 2019, 10:50:49 AM
Anyone ever been to the probowl?  Taking my 4 year old this Sunday, and just curious if there are any fan events that are worth attending.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CTWarrior on January 25, 2019, 12:16:51 PM
I don't know if Brady is the GOAT, but I do know that the system matters a lot.  A guy like Archie Manning never had a chance to be in the discussion, since he spent his formative years running for his life on terrible teams.  I am very confident that if Tom Brady was drafted by the Jets, no one would be thinking about him now as the GOAT.  He is unquestionably great, but circumstances have a lot to do with ultimate perception.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on January 26, 2019, 11:43:11 AM
NFL is the ultimate team game.  QBs make a big difference, but talent on both sides of the ball matters.  Some of the best QBs to play had horrible defenses which made them lose games.  Poor offensive line or wide receivers.

Brady is amazing.  Rodgers is too.  The rules have also changed so much that today's quarterbacks are allowed to do things in the passing game that didn't exist 20 years ago.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on January 31, 2019, 02:29:00 PM
Dak Prescott and my team had lunch today for a small event.  He is a big Markus fan.  He saw my MU phone cover and started talking about Dwade a bunch and about this year’s team.  A lot of fun to see someone in the limelight taking an interest in MU.  “That Howard kid can ball”

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 03, 2019, 11:01:08 AM
Packers at Bears will be your 2019 NFL Thursday night season opener.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on February 03, 2019, 11:17:04 AM
Packers at Bears will be your 2019 NFL Thursday night season opener.

When’s the last time the Bears and Pack kicked off the season with the Bears as the likely division favs?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 03, 2019, 11:35:13 AM
Packers at Bears will be your 2019 NFL Thursday night season opener.

Source?
Just curious since the past 15 season openers have been hosted by the Super Bowl champs.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 03, 2019, 11:38:33 AM
Source?
Just curious since the past 15 season openers have been hosted by the Super Bowl champs.

Super Bowl champ will host Sunday night game. Bears and NFL are both celebrating their 100th season next year, NFL wants to showcase the longest running rivalry in the sport.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 03, 2019, 12:35:42 PM
I'm annoyed that Ed Reed got into the Hall of Fame so easily yet Leroy Butler continues to wait.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on February 03, 2019, 12:45:26 PM
I'm annoyed that Ed Reed got into the Hall of Fame so easily yet Leroy Butler continues to wait.

Ed Reed unequivocally deserves it. Johm Lynch and Steve Atwater garnering votes from Butler is what's upsetting
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 03, 2019, 12:47:48 PM
Super Bowl champ will host Sunday night game. Bears and NFL are both celebrating their 100th season next year, NFL wants to showcase the longest running rivalry in the sport.

Interesting
Thanks
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 03, 2019, 12:48:21 PM
Ed Reed unequivocally deserves it. Johm Lynch and Steve Atwater garnering votes from Butler is what's upsetting


I agree but my fandom is irrational.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 03, 2019, 02:54:24 PM
Ed Reed unequivocally deserves it. Johm Lynch and Steve Atwater garnering votes from Butler is what's upsetting

Ed Reed deserves to be in the HOF. Period.

Butler is at a borderline HOF - barely.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 03, 2019, 03:21:39 PM
Butler is at a borderline HOF - barely.


Best safety of the 90s and revolutionized how the position was played. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 03, 2019, 04:14:04 PM

Best safety of the 90s and revolutionized how the position was played.

How?

Not asking to be a wise-arse. I seriously do not know how Butler revolutionized the safety position.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: hairy worthen on February 03, 2019, 05:11:27 PM
How?

Not asking to be a wise-arse. I seriously do not know how Butler revolutionized the safety position.
Butler could cover and play up at the line of scrimmage. He was an effective pass rusher as a safety one of the best pass rushing safetys. He absolutely deserves to be on the hall of fame.  It's a shame that he is not.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 03, 2019, 07:56:09 PM
I hope the Rams win 7-3 and their punter is the MVP.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 03, 2019, 08:06:17 PM
Ok, now I want the game to go into OT 3-3, and go into triple overtime 3-3 with a safety to win the game, 5-3.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 03, 2019, 08:34:11 PM
Game sucks major ass, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on February 03, 2019, 08:34:33 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheDweck/status/1092227160423702528

True.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on February 03, 2019, 08:55:18 PM
Anybody know if ring sizes are the same for your opposite hand? Asking for a friend.

🐐
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 03, 2019, 09:02:44 PM
When’s the last time the Bears and Pack kicked off the season with the Bears as the likely division favs?

2018.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 03, 2019, 09:06:00 PM
Can't decide what was worse - the game or the halftime show.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on February 03, 2019, 09:10:06 PM
Saints would have won that one. Goff was horrible and McVay’s playcalling was spooked
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 03, 2019, 09:13:51 PM
McVay crapped his pants.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 03, 2019, 10:33:10 PM
Edelman starts the year with a four game suspension for doping and ends the year and SB MVP and everyone loves him.

It is amazing how everyone gets truly outraged at doping in baseball, and all the secondary sports (track, cycling, etc) and seriously does not care about doping in Football.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on February 04, 2019, 06:40:48 AM
Edelman starts the year with a four game suspension for doping and ends the year and SB MVP and everyone loves him.

It is amazing how everyone gets truly outraged at doping in baseball, and all the secondary sports (track, cycling, etc) and seriously does not care about doping in Football.

Everyone loves the Patriots Super Bowl MVP? Lol good God do you go a long way to making yourself look foolish for a tiny bit of shock value attention man.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 04, 2019, 07:54:28 AM
McVay crapped his pants.

Being in the stands, it was like 80% Pats fans.  Felt like a home game.  Awful game, worse halftime show, nice stadium
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 04, 2019, 08:01:10 AM
Edelman starts the year with a four game suspension for doping and ends the year and SB MVP and everyone loves him.

It is amazing how everyone gets truly outraged at doping in baseball, and all the secondary sports (track, cycling, etc) and seriously does not care about doping in Football.

He was booed roundly by the neutral and Rams fans whenever he was shown on the screen
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 04, 2019, 08:15:27 AM
Brady's stats were unimpressive, but that's the kind of game it was -- defense-oriented, play for fiend position, try to run the ball, etc.

When it came to nut-cutting time, though, he threw three absolutely perfect passes -- as pretty as any pass can be thrown.

If I didn't already believe Brady was the best ever, I guess I could try to make my case that he did nothing special in this game.

But because I do believe Brady is the best ever, his intelligent handling of the game and his brilliance when his team needed him most helped demonstrate why he has won 6 Super Bowls and played in 9 of them.

Kind-of-related note ...

Interesting to me that in this super-low-scoring game of field position and defense, it was the most lopsided Super Bowl win the Patriots have had ... a margin of 10 whole points!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 04, 2019, 08:29:59 AM
Being in the stands, it was like 80% Pats fans.  Felt like a home game.  Awful game, worse halftime show, nice stadium


The halftime show was terrible.

You give Belichick two weeks to prepare for a young quarterback and he's going to figure him out.  And unlike Philly last year, they never had a counter. Too bad the Saints didn't make it because Brees would have been much more capable.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 04, 2019, 08:36:38 AM
Everyone loves the Patriots Super Bowl MVP? Lol good God do you go a long way to making yourself look foolish for a tiny bit of shock value attention man.

Whew .. as long as you call me stupid I know I'm on the right track.

FYI - MLB bans dopers from post-season.



Patriots 5 - 4 in nine super bowls and along the way ...

Spygate - Bust for videoing the opposing team

Walkthroughgate (2002) In 2008, the local Boston tabloid, The Boston Herald reported -- citing an unnamed and unverified source -- that the New England Patriots had videotaped the St. Louis Rams' February 2002 walkthrough practice prior to Super Bowl XXXVI.

IRgate in 2013 -  put false information about them on official injury reports. Brandon Spikes and Aqib Talib have both said since leaving New England in free agency that when they were on the Patriots last year, the team gave them injury designations that weren’t accurate.

Deflategate (2015), Brady suspended

Employed a murderer at tight-end, who was killed in prison.

Now has a doper as Superbowl MVP  In fact here are the other dopers since 2007

S Rodney Harrison (2007)
LB Brandon Spikes (2010)
DE Jermaine Cunningham (2012)
RB Brandon Boldin (2012)
DE Rob Ninkovich (2016)

This is a small sample of the cheating

https://yourteamcheats.com/NE

--------------------------------

The Patriots are like John Calipari ... love them when they win and this is "quirky anecdotes."  But, when they start to lose, they become Rick Pitino.


Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 04, 2019, 08:58:16 AM
Too bad the Saints didn't make it because Brees would have been much more capable.

Maybe. Even probably.

Then again, the most accurate QB in history did throw an INT in OT of the NFC title game, a pick that helped make the no-call seem even worse than it was.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 04, 2019, 08:58:30 AM
Whew .. as long as you call me stupid I know I'm on the right track.

FYI - MLB bans dopers from post-season.



Patriots 5 - 4 in nine super bowls and along the way ...

Spygate - Bust for videoing the opposing team

Walkthroughgate (2002) In 2008, the local Boston tabloid, The Boston Herald reported -- citing an unnamed and unverified source -- that the New England Patriots had videotaped the St. Louis Rams' February 2002 walkthrough practice prior to Super Bowl XXXVI.

IRgate in 2013 -  put false information about them on official injury reports. Brandon Spikes and Aqib Talib have both said since leaving New England in free agency that when they were on the Patriots last year, the team gave them injury designations that weren’t accurate.

Deflategate (2015), Brady suspended

Employed a murderer at tight-end, who was killed in prison.

Now has a doper as Superbowl MVP  In fact here are the other dopers since 2007

S Rodney Harrison (2007)
LB Brandon Spikes (2010)
DE Jermaine Cunningham (2012)
RB Brandon Boldin (2012)
DE Rob Ninkovich (2016)

This is a small sample of the cheating

https://yourteamcheats.com/NE

--------------------------------

The Patriots are like John Calipari ... love them when they win and this is "quirky anecdotes."  But, when they start to lose, they become Rick Pitino.


???  Who "loves" the Patriots outside of Boston?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 04, 2019, 08:59:15 AM
Maybe. Even probably.

Then again, the most accurate QB in history did throw an INT in OT of the NFC title game, a pick that helped make the no-call seem even worse than it was.


Well his arm was hit but yeah I get your point.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 04, 2019, 09:11:02 AM

???  Who "loves" the Patriots outside of Boston?

I've been mortified by the number of bandwagoneers that I've met through the years.   People like to associate with winners.

Me .. when you are born, that's your team.  Ok, yes, you get to choose from teams around you (Jets/Giants, Sox/Cubs.) 

The *only* exception is that you can marry into a team.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: StillAWarrior on February 04, 2019, 09:21:04 AM
Whew .. as long as you call me stupid I know I'm on the right track.

FYI - MLB bans dopers from post-season.



Patriots 5 - 4 in nine super bowls and along the way ...

Spygate - Bust for videoing the opposing team

Walkthroughgate (2002) In 2008, the local Boston tabloid, The Boston Herald reported -- citing an unnamed and unverified source -- that the New England Patriots had videotaped the St. Louis Rams' February 2002 walkthrough practice prior to Super Bowl XXXVI.

IRgate in 2013 -  put false information about them on official injury reports. Brandon Spikes and Aqib Talib have both said since leaving New England in free agency that when they were on the Patriots last year, the team gave them injury designations that weren’t accurate.

Deflategate (2015), Brady suspended

Employed a murderer at tight-end, who was killed in prison.

Now has a doper as Superbowl MVP  In fact here are the other dopers since 2007

S Rodney Harrison (2007)
LB Brandon Spikes (2010)
DE Jermaine Cunningham (2012)
RB Brandon Boldin (2012)
DE Rob Ninkovich (2016)

This is a small sample of the cheating

https://yourteamcheats.com/NE

--------------------------------

The Patriots are like John Calipari ... love them when they win and this is "quirky anecdotes."  But, when they start to lose, they become Rick Pitino.

When I read your initial post, I was confused about who you were referring to when you said, "everyone."  Based upon this follow-up, I guess that by "everyone" you meant the NFL and/or Pats fans?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 04, 2019, 09:50:53 AM

???  Who "loves" the Patriots outside of Boston?

No one outside of Boston before the game.  Lots now that they won.

And the same applies to Edelman.  He is being praised all over the place.  Way more than the few cynics that point out he is a busted doper that used Brady's personal trainer Alex Gerrero.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 04, 2019, 10:06:59 AM

The halftime show was terrible.



Apparently, Nickleback and Creed weren't available. :-\
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jay Bee on February 04, 2019, 10:17:23 AM
nh?

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 04, 2019, 11:33:56 AM
Edelman starts the year with a four game suspension for doping and ends the year and SB MVP and everyone loves him.

It is amazing how everyone gets truly outraged at doping in baseball, and all the secondary sports (track, cycling, etc) and seriously does not care about doping in Football.

Edelman looked high AF on GMA this morning.  Couldn't even open one of his eyes.

Not dogging the guy, I'd be high AF if I won the super bowl.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on February 04, 2019, 01:28:57 PM
Edelman looked high AF on GMA this morning.  Couldn't even open one of his eyes.

Not dogging the guy, I'd be high AF if I won the super bowl.

Probably withdrawal effects of all the PEDs they be pumping through their veins.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CTWarrior on February 04, 2019, 03:06:03 PM

???  Who "loves" the Patriots outside of Boston?
It's a phenomenon that has gone on for ages.  There are a lot of people my age in CT who are Cowboys, Steelers or Raiders fans.  In CT you have three local teams (Jets, Giants and Patriots although where I live it is really NY fandom) to choose from, but there are still a lot of people who picked their team based on who was successful when they were kids.  That's OK with me if you stick with it when the local teams get good.  I was dumb enough to select the Jets as my favorite team as a kid, and I won't change, but I'd have been a lot happier if I picked the Giants or the Patriots, I suppose.

I watched the game alone yesterday, and I was so bored I fell asleep in the fourth quarter.  When I fell asleep it was 3-3 and when I woke up New England was kicking off ahead 13-3.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 04, 2019, 03:27:35 PM
The worst part about the game is that it wasn't even an intense defensive struggle wit the defenses making spectacular plays, everyone was just completely inept.

Sure there were some nice pass breakups down field, but none of those were anything game changing. Plus the two turnovers were just god awful throws.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU B2002 on February 04, 2019, 03:31:12 PM
2018.


Think you misunderstood his phrasing.  Vikings were (to quote Jay Bee) consensus division favorite last year.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 04, 2019, 06:34:29 PM
It's a phenomenon that has gone on for ages.  There are a lot of people my age in CT who are Cowboys, Steelers or Raiders fans.  In CT you have three local teams (Jets, Giants and Patriots although where I live it is really NY fandom) to choose from, but there are still a lot of people who picked their team based on who was successful when they were kids.  That's OK with me if you stick with it when the local teams get good.  I was dumb enough to select the Jets as my favorite team as a kid, and I won't change, but I'd have been a lot happier if I picked the Giants or the Patriots, I suppose.

I watched the game alone yesterday, and I was so bored I fell asleep in the fourth quarter.  When I fell asleep it was 3-3 and when I woke up New England was kicking off ahead 13-3.

I grew up in Connecticut and when I started to get into football, the Giants, Jets and Patriots all sucked and the Dolphins were big winners. And I loved Csonka. So I became a huge Dolphins fan. Stayed with them for many, many years. They were the last pro team in any sport I kept rooting for, but I dumped them when they forced out Shula.

I had no favorite team till I moved to Charlotte in 2010, when I thought it would be fun to be a fan again and I adopted the Panthers. It certainly wasn't me jumping on a winner's bandwagon -- that first year, with John Fox a lame-duck coach and Jimmy Clausen as the QB, the Panthers went 2-14.

Otherwise, I rooted for all NY teams as a kid -- Knicks, Yankees, Rangers. I stopped rooting for all pro teams (except the Dolphins) not long after I began my career. Then, eventually, the only teams I rooted for were Marquette and the teams my kids played on.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 04, 2019, 09:04:37 PM

Think you misunderstood his phrasing.  Vikings were (to quote Jay Bee) consensus division favorite last year.

In my consensus opinion, the Bears were the favorites.    8-)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on February 04, 2019, 11:03:31 PM
In my consensus opinion, the Bears were the favorites.    8-)

I guess when you're a Bears fan you have to make up fake preseason favorites.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 11, 2019, 11:54:34 AM
Murray to pursue football over baseball.  I met the young man in Atlanta for the Super Bowl.  He is smaller than I thought, but decision made.  Best of luck to him, following his passion and likely more money because of the position he plays.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 11, 2019, 12:04:38 PM
Bears/Lions
Dolphins/Cowboys

Thanksgiving games.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Bocephys on February 11, 2019, 12:04:54 PM
Murray to pursue football over baseball.  I met the young man in Atlanta for the Super Bowl.  He is smaller than I thought, but decision made.  Best of luck to him, following his passion and likely more money because of the position he plays.

Baseball will be there if football doesn't work.  The opposite is likely not true.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 11, 2019, 12:59:34 PM
Very happy the Panthers just signed safety Eric Reid to a 3-year contract.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article226093645.html?#emlnl=Breaking_Newsletter&id=bWlrZW5hZGVsQHNiY2dsb2JhbC5uZXQ=

He played very well for them after they signed him last season, the coaches and players say he's a great teammate, and he's still only 27 years old -- many good years ahead. And the Panthers already had some work to do shoring up their D without losing a guy who is very good at what he does.

Hats off to our new(ish) owner David Tepper, who agreed to the Reid signing last year despite some public backlash because Reid is an anthem-kneeler.

The Panthers desperately need a good backup QB and I wouldn't mind seeing Kaepernick at least get a chance to show he can still play. He'd have to be better than the backups the Panthers have had the last couple of years, and Newton is coming off shoulder surgery.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 11, 2019, 01:52:08 PM
All write, heer wee all go again. NFL will sign any peace of meet dat can catch, throw, or run wit a stupidly shaped ball. Maebee, Rae Carruth still has sum eligility left, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 11, 2019, 01:52:45 PM
Proving the point if you can play well, you will be signed despite your beliefs.  If you can’t play, you get no favors even if you “sacrificed” everything.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 11, 2019, 01:53:00 PM
Baseball will be there if football doesn't work.  The opposite is likely not true.
There have been guys who tried baseball first and then went the football route, i.e. Drew Henson, Chris Weinke, Chad Hutchison and, of course, Bo. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 11, 2019, 01:54:35 PM
Proving the point if you can play well, you will be signed despite your beliefs.  If you can’t play, you get no favors even if you “sacrificed” everything.

If you're implying that Kaepernick isn't playing because of his abilities, and not his beliefs, then please never comment on football again.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 11, 2019, 01:57:16 PM
So much for Kareem Hunt to the Bears.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 11, 2019, 02:16:05 PM
If you're implying that Kaepernick isn't playing because of his abilities, and not his beliefs, then please never comment on football again.

Guys that have spoken up, kneeled, been a pain in the side of the NfL playing for millions....because they are good players.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 11, 2019, 02:43:53 PM
Guys that have spoken up, kneeled, been a pain in the side of the NfL playing for millions....because they are good players.

Got it.
Nathan Peterman, Christian Hackenberg, Cody Kessler, Geno Smith, Blaine Gabbert, among others, are good enough to get multiple NFL chances, but Kapernick isn't.
Like I said, stop commenting on football.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 11, 2019, 03:03:25 PM
$22million contract.  Because that’s what someone said it was worth to pay, that’s how it works....despite his actions and comments that the league does not share, including the Drug testing conspiracy comments. If someone else has zero offers, well that should tell you something.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on February 12, 2019, 11:45:12 AM
So much for Kareem Hunt to the Bears.

Here we go, Brownies!  Chubb-Hunt-Johnson, elite backfield.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 12, 2019, 11:48:12 AM
All write, heer wee all go again. NFL will sign any peace of meet dat can catch, throw, or run wit a stupidly shaped ball. Maebee, Rae Carruth still has sum eligility left, hey?

Yes, because a guy who murdered his wife is the exact same as a guy who kneels during the anthem.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: TinyTimsLittleBrother on February 12, 2019, 12:05:32 PM
To a lot of arbys, arbying during the arbys is much more arbys than arbying at arbys.

edited.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 12, 2019, 12:39:17 PM
In before the 2nd 2018 NFL thread is locked.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on February 12, 2019, 12:57:51 PM
Kareem Hunt has a job.   Colin Kaepernick does not.   It is easy to say right now because it is February and I may relax by fall, but I can definitely picture not watching a minute of the NFL next season.   
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 12, 2019, 02:26:44 PM
Kareem Hunt has a job.   Colin Kaepernick does not.   It is easy to say right now because it is February and I may relax by fall, but I can definitely picture not watching a minute of the NFL next season.   

We have had plenty of proof by now. Standing up for human rights is much worse than assaulting women. Always been that way - maybe always will be.

As far as watching football, I understand what you are saying. I used to watch all day Sunday + Monday night (not to mention a lot of college football). This past year, I watched GB games until they were eliminated. Nothing else. No pro or college.


Maybe it is where I am in life. I have everything I need and almost everything I want. Life is no longer about me. Family and social justice are all that matters. My focus is on making life better for those who weren't as lucky as I was.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 12, 2019, 10:44:32 PM
We have had plenty of proof by now. Standing up for human rights is much worse than assaulting women. Always been that way - maybe always will be.

As far as watching football, I understand what you are saying. I used to watch all day Sunday + Monday night (not to mention a lot of college football). This past year, I watched GB games until they were eliminated. Nothing else. No pro or college.


Maybe it is where I am in life. I have everything I need and almost everything I want. Life is no longer about me. Family and social justice are all that matters. My focus is on making life better for those who weren't as lucky as I was.

Admirable, brand. I'm rooting for you to do just that, my friend.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on February 12, 2019, 11:13:53 PM
We have had plenty of proof by now. Standing up for human rights is much worse than assaulting women. Always been that way - maybe always will be.

As far as watching football, I understand what you are saying. I used to watch all day Sunday + Monday night (not to mention a lot of college football). This past year, I watched GB games until they were eliminated. Nothing else. No pro or college.


Maybe it is where I am in life. I have everything I need and almost everything I want. Life is no longer about me. Family and social justice are all that matters. My focus is on making life better for those who weren't as lucky as I was.

Beat a woman, Rape a woman (Kobe Bryant, quote "I understand that she did not consent to this encounter"), and you keep your job.

Kneel for the anthem. Pariah.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: #UnleashSean on February 13, 2019, 08:05:32 AM
Wait are people really saying that a washed up ex starting quarterback who only stood up as a way to get attention while he was 3rd stringer is the same as Kareem hunt, the most explosive running back currently in the game? The media attention around them both isn't good (really any crazy amounts aren't good for teams ala Tim Tebow)

They made a simple decision. The media circus around hunt is worth it for his play but kaps most definitely is not.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 13, 2019, 08:50:51 AM
Beat a woman, Rape a woman (Kobe Bryant, quote "I understand that she did not consent to this encounter"), and you keep your job.

Kneel for the anthem. Pariah.

Kill a woman and remain a Senator like Ted and be idolized for years.  All kinds of examples if you truly wish to go there
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: cheebs09 on February 13, 2019, 09:04:17 AM
Honestly, when watching a game on Sunday, you aren’t seeing the video of what Hunt did. You are seeing Kaepernick kneeling. Not saying that’s right at all, but I wonder if that’s where the double standard is and why some are willing to look past Hunt.

Kaepernick actually had a decent year for that last 8 games. He wasn’t at the level when he was leading them to the Super Bowl, but was performing better than Peterman.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 13, 2019, 09:21:05 AM
Kill a woman and remain a Senator like Ted and be idolized for years.  All kinds of examples if you truly wish to go there

Well, nobody brought politics into this until you did.

Kaepernick actually had a decent year for that last 8 games. He wasn’t at the level when he was leading them to the Super Bowl, but was performing better than Peterman.

This. If Kaepernick is "washed up," then all but about 15-20 QBs in the NFL are double-washed-up.

Meanwhile, here's a fun NFL-related story about a Panthers player who used a 'rasslin' move to subdue a criminal:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article226004705.html?#emlnl=Panthers&id=bWlrZW5hZGVsQHNiY2dsb2JhbC5uZXQ=
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 13, 2019, 09:24:13 AM
Well, nobody brought politics into this until you did.

False.  Read the thread.  You just don’t like that an example was given even worse then what Hunt did and said example was lionized for years.  That was the point, there are examples aplenty of people doing repulsive things and somehow being put on a pedestal, sometimes for decades.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 13, 2019, 09:53:02 AM
Wait are people really saying that a washed up ex starting quarterback who only stood up as a way to get attention while he was 3rd stringer is the same as Kareem hunt, the most explosive running back currently in the game? The media attention around them both isn't good (really any crazy amounts aren't good for teams ala Tim Tebow)

They made a simple decision. The media circus around hunt is worth it for his play but kaps most definitely is not.

As with Cheeks, if you don't think Kaepernick is a good football player - and certainly not good enough to have a job in the NFL - just stop posting here because you're making a fool of yourself.
In his last NFL season - when you stupidly refer to him as a "3rd stringer" - he put up better numbers than Phil Rivers, Cam Newton, Eli Manning, Case Keenum, Joe Flacco, Carson Wentz and Jameis Winston, among others who have continued to be employed as NFL starters since. And he did it with arguably the worst supporting cast in the league.

But your final sentence is correct. NFL teams have decided the bad PR from signing a thug isn't as bad as the bad PR from signing Kaepernick. What's mind-boggling is that some idiots see that as an indictment of Kaepernick and not the league.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 13, 2019, 09:53:43 AM
Da Juice sez "peace and love" to y'all, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 13, 2019, 10:59:30 AM
Kill a woman and remain a Senator like Ted and be idolized for years.  All kinds of examples if you truly wish to go there

Ray Lewis would have been a better example.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: dgies9156 on February 13, 2019, 11:02:13 AM
Sorry gang, the NFL has a product to market. Its goal is to make money and somewhere some genius figured out that Colin Kapernick is poison to the NFL's demographic because of his political statements.

Now think about something. Suppose an employee used his or her position with your firm to advocate a position that was detrimental to your market position and profitability. I don't care what your politics are, it's a matter of using the corporate forum to advocate a position at odds with what the corporation does or stands for.

We had that happen in one of our offices recently where a staff member reportedly ridiculed the President of the United States. What he did in his off-hours is his own business, including campaigning for anyone he wants. But in an office where we have people of many different political persuasions and have to keep them all happy, his criticism was detrimental to our firm's corporate efforts. He was severely reprimanded and, if it happens again, he likely would be seeking alternative employment.

As a rule, corporations don't care what you do in your off-hours as long as you do it as an individual. Mr. Kapernick, God love him, used the NFL's product as a means of communicating displeasure with the government, which is at odds with a view held by a very sizeable number of NFL customers.

At day's end, Mr. Kapernick does what anyone in a free society can do. Find another job or, in the absence of another job, find another career.



Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 13, 2019, 11:09:53 AM
Except the NFL isn't a "firm." It is a collection of firms, who if they collude to not hire Kaepernick, are potentially in violation of labor law.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on February 13, 2019, 11:30:17 AM
Question, does the existence of the AAF hurt Kapernick's case? Christian Hackenburg is a starting QB in that league, if Kapernick "just wants to play football" wouldn't he be playing in that league? Could he play in the AAF while continuing his lawsuit against the NFL?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 13, 2019, 11:42:11 AM
Ray Lewis would have been a better example.

An example, not sure a better example.  I don’t think he has been put on the pedestal in any way close to the same way the other example was.  Night and day
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 13, 2019, 11:46:25 AM
Sorry gang, the NFL has a product to market. Its goal is to make money and somewhere some genius figured out that Colin Kapernick is poison to the NFL's demographic because of his political statements.

Any argument that begins with an assumption that the NFL is run by geniuses is a very bad argument.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: StillAWarrior on February 13, 2019, 11:48:01 AM
Any argument that begins with an assumption that the NFL is run by geniuses is a very bad argument.

The NFL is run by people who are very fortunate to have found their way into an industry where even idiots can make a lot of money.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on February 13, 2019, 11:49:22 AM
The NFL is run by people who are very fortunate to have found their way into an industry where even idiots can make a lot of money.

Isn't that most industries? Where often who you know is more important than what you know.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 13, 2019, 11:53:28 AM
Question, does the existence of the AAF hurt Kapernick's case? Christian Hackenburg is a starting QB in that league, if Kapernick "just wants to play football" wouldn't he be playing in that league? Could he play in the AAF while continuing his lawsuit against the NFL?

Well, did the existence of HBUCs hurt the cases of black students who'd been denied entrance to the universities of Alabama and Mississippi? I mean, if those kids "just wanted to get a college education" wouldn't they have just attended Grambling or Southern?

No, the existence of an inferior alternative would not justify any unlawful actions to keep Kaepernick out the NFL (if collusion existed ... I have no idea).
And the notion that Kaepernick somehow doesn't really want to play because he's not in the AAF (or CFL, for that matter) is just as dumb as saying James Meredith didn't really want to go to college because he chose to fight for entrance to Ole Miss rather than attend an HBUC.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 13, 2019, 11:54:15 AM
Isn't that most industries? Where often who you know is more important than what you know.

Shhhhh ... don't want to let the wealthy in this nation think they didn't all really just pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: StillAWarrior on February 13, 2019, 11:59:47 AM
Isn't that most industries?

I don't think so.  At all.  I think the people running most industries are (and have to be) extremely intelligent to succeed.  They need to innovate, develop new products, fend of competitors, etc.

The NFL has essentially, a single product - although they package it multiple ways.  The product was developed developed decades ago, and has remained fairly consistent over all those years.  The product is extraordinarily popular and amazingly resistant to diminution of that popularity.  The barriers to entry for competitors is extremely high.  It's a classic industry where the primary requirement is simply to avoid screwing it up.

That said, I'm sure there are a lot of very smart people running the NFL.  Notwithstanding my eagerness to rip on them.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 13, 2019, 12:28:37 PM
Nike stock is at an all-time high. I guess Kaepernick wasn't Kryptonite for that enterprise.

Not sure what Ted Kennedy would say about that, though.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 13, 2019, 04:04:21 PM
I don't think so.  At all.  I think the people running most industries are (and have to be) extremely intelligent to succeed.  They need to innovate, develop new products, fend of competitors, etc.

The NFL has essentially, a single product - although they package it multiple ways.  The product was developed developed decades ago, and has remained fairly consistent over all those years.  The product is extraordinarily popular and amazingly resistant to diminution of that popularity.  The barriers to entry for competitors is extremely high.  It's a classic industry where the primary requirement is simply to avoid screwing it up.

That said, I'm sure there are a lot of very smart people running the NFL.  Notwithstanding my eagerness to rip on them.

Yup.

Most of the NFL guys I deal with are from the investment banking or similar background.  Ivy League, very smart people.  Most did not come from a sports background.  A number from strong legal backgrounds, but the league pulls from top people from various industries.

The Who you know stuff certainly matters in some industries, but over simplification as far as I’m concerned.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 13, 2019, 04:05:56 PM
Nike stock is at an all-time high. I guess Kaepernick wasn't Kryptonite for that enterprise.

Not sure what Ted Kennedy would say about that, though.

Nike is a global brand that moves up or down for a lot of reasons....also a company with sweatshop kids making their stuff at times....surprised CK would want to be associated with that.  But different folks get in bed with all kinds I guess.

Pretty sure Ted is dead and doesn’t think about anything.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: StillAWarrior on February 13, 2019, 04:10:31 PM
Pretty sure Ted is dead and doesn’t think about anything.

“Uh...do whatever you want, I’m super dead.”
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 13, 2019, 04:46:30 PM
Sorry gang, the NFL has a product to market. Its goal is to make money and somewhere some genius figured out that Colin Kapernick is poison to the NFL's demographic because of his political statements.



It is just their opinion (mostly rooted in fear) - not some truth that they figured out.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 🏀 on February 13, 2019, 05:16:08 PM
Sorry gang, the NFL has a product to market. Its goal is to make money and somewhere some genius figured out that Colin Kapernick is poison to the NFL's demographic because of his political statements.

Now think about something. Suppose an employee used his or her position with your firm to advocate a position that was detrimental to your market position and profitability. I don't care what your politics are, it's a matter of using the corporate forum to advocate a position at odds with what the corporation does or stands for.

We had that happen in one of our offices recently where a staff member reportedly ridiculed the President of the United States. What he did in his off-hours is his own business, including campaigning for anyone he wants. But in an office where we have people of many different political persuasions and have to keep them all happy, his criticism was detrimental to our firm's corporate efforts. He was severely reprimanded and, if it happens again, he likely would be seeking alternative employment.

As a rule, corporations don't care what you do in your off-hours as long as you do it as an individual. Mr. Kapernick, God love him, used the NFL's product as a means of communicating displeasure with the government, which is at odds with a view held by a very sizeable number of NFL customers.

At day's end, Mr. Kapernick does what anyone in a free society can do. Find another job or, in the absence of another job, find another career.





#bestfansinbaseball
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: dgies9156 on February 13, 2019, 05:27:52 PM
#bestfansinbaseball

Damn straight. Glad you know!!!!   ;D
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 13, 2019, 06:16:29 PM
It is just their opinion (mostly rooted in fear) - not some truth that they figured out.

Reems of data, surveys and focus groups.  Not one person’s opinion, but how their customers feel.  That is the truth they figured out, whether one agrees or disagrees with it, that is the belief of their customers.  There is a reason why things dampened down considerably in the last year, the player agents, the league and the players are smart folks and they were alienating the people who pay the money to make the league exist, or watch the games, but the products that support it.  Reems of data.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: mu03eng on February 13, 2019, 08:29:33 PM
Well, did the existence of HBUCs hurt the cases of black students who'd been denied entrance to the universities of Alabama and Mississippi? I mean, if those kids "just wanted to get a college education" wouldn't they have just attended Grambling or Southern?

No, the existence of an inferior alternative would not justify any unlawful actions to keep Kaepernick out the NFL (if collusion existed ... I have no idea).
And the notion that Kaepernick somehow doesn't really want to play because he's not in the AAF (or CFL, for that matter) is just as dumb as saying James Meredith didn't really want to go to college because he chose to fight for entrance to Ole Miss rather than attend an HBUC.

That's government institutions versus private employers, I doubt the same standards apply but I could be wrong
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: dgies9156 on February 13, 2019, 09:19:39 PM
Except the NFL isn't a "firm." It is a collection of firms, who if they collude to not hire Kaepernick, are potentially in violation of labor law.

Excuse me? That's like saying McDonald's is a collection of firms. The NFL is a multi-billion business with franchisees, just like McDonald's or Yum Brands. The League exerts control over the franchisees, who agree to the League's bylaws and regulation as a condition of their franchise agreement.

Secondly, how do you know there is collusion? On what basis? Perhaps they think alike or fear the contagion of Kapernick using the NFL for a political forum.

I get people do not like the NFL. It's big business and its primary product brings out some of the worst aspects of human behavior. But the owners who bought in paid hundreds of millions of dollars (unless you're the Halases or gave money to the Green Bay Packers) and their goal is to make billions.

And for those of you who don't think the NFL is genius, what's the most popular sports league in the world? Probably the NFL.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 13, 2019, 09:35:22 PM
Excuse me? That's like saying McDonald's is a collection of firms. The NFL is a multi-billion business with franchisees, just like McDonald's or Yum Brands. The League exerts control over the franchisees, who agree to the League's bylaws and regulation as a condition of their franchise agreement.

This is not correct. The NFL relationship with its teams is not at all like McDonald's with its franchises.  Simply preposterous and indicative of total ignorance of how the league operates.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 13, 2019, 09:44:15 PM
This is not correct. The NFL relationship with its teams is not at all like McDonald's with its franchises.  Simply preposterous and indicative of total ignorance of how the league operates.

Somewhere in the middle.  Dgies is not wrong about the bylaws and ultimately falling under the SHIELD that is the NFL.  Steelers can’t decide to have a payroll above the cap while the Jaguars have to stay at the cap, as an example.  The NFL administers punishment, collects most of the revenue and distributes it equally amongst the franchises.  An owner can be stripped of his / her franchise for certain conduct.

I wouldn’t say it is like McDonald’s necessary, but there are qualities to their setup that are similar.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 13, 2019, 10:01:27 PM
Somewhere in the middle.  Dgies is not wrong about the bylaws and ultimately falling under the SHIELD that is the NFL.  Steelers can’t decide to have a payroll above the cap while the Jaguars have to stay at the cap, as an example.  The NFL administers punishment, collects most of the revenue and distributes it equally amongst the franchises.  An owner can be stripped of his / her franchise for certain conduct.

I wouldn’t say it is like McDonald’s necessary, but there are qualities to their setup that are similar.

No, he's 100 percent wrong.
And you're heading that way.
The league doesn't decide a salary cap. The owners do. The league doesn't administer punishment on its own. It does so only under the authority granted to it by the owners and with the owners' blessing. Roger Goddell and his administration can't strip an owner of his/her franchise. Only the other owners, collectively, can do that.  The owners don't take direction from the league. The league takes direction from the owners.
It is not at all like the McDonald's setup. In fact, it's the exact opposite. With McDonald's, the franchise owners must act in accordance to what the corporation dictates. In the NFL, the corporation acts in accordance with what the franchise owners dictate. At McDonald's, corporate sets the rules for the franchises to enact. In the NFL, the franchises set the rules for corporate to enact. And last I checked, McDonald's franchise owners don't get to fire the CEO, nor does the CEO answer to their whims.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 13, 2019, 10:57:08 PM
You say he is 100% wrong and yet several of your statements are incorrect.  Funny stuff.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: dgies9156 on February 14, 2019, 07:54:42 AM
Brother Pakuni:

I'm not intimate with the charter and bylaws of the NFL. I have better things to do with my time. But to suggest the NFL is not a for profit business that grants franchises and regulates franchise behavior is, well, something out there!

The difference between the ownership structure of McDonalds and that of the NFL, I'll grant you, is significant. Franchisees of the NFL own it, which means they can regulate behavior. But, in both cases, you live with bylaws and renegade franchisees, like it or not, have a very small voice in change at either place. Push things too far in either case (put Pepsi in a McDonalds or, say, move the Raiders without League approval) and you will end up in court. No ifs, ands or buts.

But back to the original point, if a McDonalds franchisee flew an American flag upside down, he or she would get slapped around so fast the franchisee would not know what hit 'em. Ditto for a McDonalds franchisee's employees whose used their McDonald's status to advocate vegetarianism. The NFL is no different.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 14, 2019, 09:30:58 AM
For starters, the owners do not decide the salary cap.  That is an AGREED upon result of the collective bargaining agreement....note...COLLECTIVE...not owners only, but COLLECTIVE.   Similar to the NBA, the players association in the NFL (NFLPA, I deal with them every time we sign a player to an endorsement) actually dictates the exact amount of the salary cap....not the owners.
This was a collectively bargained for right the NFLPA won.  The pools of money include TV revenues, tickets, merchandise, etc, etc that are split evenly between the 32 teams for the salary cap number.

No question the Commissioner reports to the owners, and the owners wield massive control, which I assume was Pakuni's point.  But isn't 100% on the owners side and there are components of it like a franchise the way SOME decisions are made.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 14, 2019, 09:35:46 AM
Brother Pakuni:

I'm not intimate with the charter and bylaws of the NFL. I have better things to do with my time. But to suggest the NFL is not a for profit business that grants franchises and regulates franchise behavior is, well, something out there!
Nobody actually said this.
That said, the NFL does not grant franchises or regulate franchise behavior. The other franchises do that. The NFL is merely the mechanism by which the owners act in concert.
This is why the McDonald's analogy is a poor one. At McDonald's, the corporate office doesn't take its orders from the franchises. In the NFL, the league office absolutely takes its orders from the franchises. Pretty sure Roger Goodell doesn't take a dump without clearing it first with Jerry Jones or Bob Kraft.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 14, 2019, 09:42:10 AM
Nobody actually said this.
That said, the NFL does not grant franchises or regulate franchise behavior. The other franchises do that. The NFL is merely the mechanism by which the owners act in concert.
This is why the McDonald's analogy is a poor one. At McDonald's, the corporate office doesn't take its orders from the franchises. In the NFL, the league office absolutely takes its orders from the franchises. Pretty sure Roger Goodell doesn't take a dump without clearing it first with Jerry Jones or Bob Kraft.

What do you mean the NFL doesn't regulate franchise behavior?  They sure as hell do.  The punishment for wrongdoing may ultimately come from the other owners, but there are requirements that each franchise must adhere to that the NFL oversees.  Now, we can debate what the "NFL" is, but you are getting into semantics at that point.  Franchises have strict bylaws that each one must follow or be fined, have draft picks taken away, etc, etc,
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 14, 2019, 09:46:00 AM
Excuse me? That's like saying McDonald's is a collection of firms. The NFL is a multi-billion business with franchisees, just like McDonald's or Yum Brands. The League exerts control over the franchisees, who agree to the League's bylaws and regulation as a condition of their franchise agreement.

Secondly, how do you know there is collusion? On what basis? Perhaps they think alike or fear the contagion of Kapernick using the NFL for a political forum.

I get people do not like the NFL. It's big business and its primary product brings out some of the worst aspects of human behavior. But the owners who bought in paid hundreds of millions of dollars (unless you're the Halases or gave money to the Green Bay Packers) and their goal is to make billions.

And for those of you who don't think the NFL is genius, what's the most popular sports league in the world? Probably the NFL.


The NFL isn't the most popular sports league in the world.  The English Premier League hold that title.  My guess is La Liga isn't that far behind.  I don't even think the NFL is the most popular American league worldwide.  The NBA has a much larger audience outside the US than the NFL does.

And if you don't think collusion is occurring I don't know what to say.  And even if there is no collusion, the idea that Kaepernick is some how more of a pariah because he kneels for the Anthem, versus players who commit violent crime, often of a sexual nature, then there is a serious problem with the mindset of the owners and viewers.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 14, 2019, 09:55:42 AM
What do you mean the NFL doesn't regulate franchise behavior?  They sure as hell do.  The punishment for wrongdoing may ultimately come from the other owners, but there are requirements that each franchise must adhere to that the NFL oversees.  Now, we can debate what the "NFL" is, but you are getting into semantics at that point.  Franchises have strict bylaws that each one must follow or be fined, have draft picks taken away, etc, etc,

I mean the NFL doesn't regulate franchise behavior. It is simply the means by which the owners regulate franchise behavior.
In this regard, think of the NFL as the criminal justice system. Police, prosecutors, judges, etc. don't regulate citizen behavior. Other citizens do, through their elected representatives who write the laws. The justice system is the mechanism through which those laws are enforced, and can only enforce them via the authority granted to it by the citizens. The NFL doesn't write the laws for its franchises, and can only enforce them via the authority granted to it by team owners, who also write the laws.

And no, this is not a semantical argument. It goes to the heart of what the NFL is and isn't, and is why the NFL is not at all like McDonald's. You clearly don't understand that or are feigning ignorance because you like to argue.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 14, 2019, 10:53:52 AM
And if you don't think collusion is occurring I don't know what to say.  And even if there is no collusion, the idea that Kaepernick is some how more of a pariah because he kneels for the Anthem, versus players who commit violent crime, often of a sexual nature, then there is a serious problem with the mindset of the owners and viewers.

Obvious collusion against Kaepernick ... though I do wonder if he might have a chance of getting signed if he made it known that $$ wasn't an issue. If Eric Reid had demanded top-dollar, the Panthers wouldn't have signed him last year; he didn't get top-dollar until he proved he could still play and that he wouldn't be a distraction. Obviously, things are different when it comes to QBs. A safety or guard or linebacker can kind of blend into the woodwork; a QB can't.

But obviously Kaepernick has more talent than dozens of QBs employed in the NFL. Anybody who denies that, I question his or her knowledge and/or honesty.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 14, 2019, 11:07:58 AM

But obviously Kaepernick has more talent than dozens of QBs employed in the NFL. Anybody who denies that, I question his or her knowledge and/or honesty.

But those guys aren't sticking a finger into the eye of the customer base that pays for their salaries, that's the difference. They aren't also wearing pig cop socks.  I question anyone's honesty or knowledge that denies this reality, also.   Kap isn't good enough to put an organization through that.  If guys want to protest on their own time, have at it.  Once you do it at work, that changes the equation and ANY employer has a right to say enough.  There are many ways to effect change, and men / women do it daily.  He chose the wrong approach and the pig socks stuff pushed a LOT of people away.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on February 14, 2019, 11:10:53 AM
Now the NFL is banning certain players from the combine preventing teams to talk to and determine anything about a player, yet the league allows teams to employ many players that have been found guilty of similar behavior.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 14, 2019, 11:15:05 AM
Hoo goes ta McD's, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: StillAWarrior on February 14, 2019, 11:41:22 AM
Obvious collusion against Kaepernick ... though I do wonder if he might have a chance of getting signed if he made it known that $$ wasn't an issue. If Eric Reid had demanded top-dollar, the Panthers wouldn't have signed him last year; he didn't get top-dollar until he proved he could still play and that he wouldn't be a distraction. Obviously, things are different when it comes to QBs. A safety or guard or linebacker can kind of blend into the woodwork; a QB can't.

But obviously Kaepernick has more talent than dozens of QBs employed in the NFL. Anybody who denies that, I question his or her knowledge and/or honesty.

I find myself leaning toward the other side of the CK issue than most people would expect.  Even though I don't necessarily agree with him on some of the underlying issues he is protesting (and also don't necessarily agree with a lot of the other issues that have tried to piggy back on him), I respect what he's done.  I think he's brave.  I think he stood up for what he believed in, at great cost, and I respect that.  Also, I am absolutely convinced that he is not currently playing in the NFL because he took that stand.

That said, I'm not convinced there is any collusion.  I don't doubt for a minute that NFL teams are retaliating against him because of what he did.
 If he hand't taken a knee, he'd be on someone's roster right now.  He's undeniably better than many QBs that are currently in the league.  But that's not the same as collusion.  I understand that owners don't want to touch him because he's a very controversial and divisive figure.  Because of that, he's not working while less talented QBs are.  But there's nothing that prevents all the owners from reaching the same conclusion.  If they reach that conclusion together, that's collusion.  But if each of the owners decides that he's just not worth the PR hit, that's not collusion.

Perhaps evidence of actual collusion will emerge.  If so, then he'll win his lawsuit.  But I just think a lot of people (not necessarily you, 82) think that saying "no proof of collusion" is the same as saying "CK isn't good enough to play."  He's absolutely good enough to play, IMO.  And I'm convinced he's not getting picked up because he took a knee for the National Anthem.  But that doesn't mean that I'm convinced there was collusion.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 14, 2019, 11:49:32 AM
Collusion means multiple teams involved to collectively make a decision together.  It is absolutely possible that each team on their own said, it isn't worth it.  Most NFL fans were against CK's actions, there is ample data that CBS, ESPN, Verizon, Aneheiser Busch, SiriusXM, and countless others that survey their customers on these matters shows.  People running NFL teams aren't dumb, and they can very easily on their own make the simple calculation that it isn't worth it.

The Browns just decided to take on Hunt, I guarantee you 20+ teams on their own said it isn't worth it, but all it takes is one to do it.  That isn't collusion that the 20+ said no...that was their own risk calculation. If someone wants to take on CK, they certainly can, but they would be doing so against their customer's wishes based on the data out there and they have probably said it isn't worth it.  Collusion is tough to prove and my hunch is individual teams came to their decisions rather easily on their own.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 14, 2019, 11:55:34 AM
Boy, this guy really stuck it to Nike and Kaepernick:

A Colorado sports store is closing its doors after sales dropped following the owner's decision last year to stop stocking Nike items, according to KOAA News 5 in Pueblo, Col.
Prime Time Sports owner Stephen Martin told News 5 that he can no longer afford his lease at Chapel Hills Mall in Colorado Springs after being open over 20 years.
Last year he decided to stop selling Nike items after the brand made former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick the face of its 30th anniversary "Just Do It" campaign.


https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/13/colorado-store-closing-colin-kaepernick-protest-nike
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 14, 2019, 11:59:42 AM
Boy, this guy really stuck it to Nike and Kaepernick:

A Colorado sports store is closing its doors after sales dropped following the owner's decision last year to stop stocking Nike items, according to KOAA News 5 in Pueblo, Col.
Prime Time Sports owner Stephen Martin told News 5 that he can no longer afford his lease at Chapel Hills Mall in Colorado Springs after being open over 20 years.
Last year he decided to stop selling Nike items after the brand made former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick the face of its 30th anniversary "Just Do It" campaign.


https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/13/colorado-store-closing-colin-kaepernick-protest-nike

And some people don’t think life is fair?

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: dgies9156 on February 14, 2019, 12:02:00 PM
And if you don't think collusion is occurring I don't know what to say.  And even if there is no collusion, the idea that Kaepernick is some how more of a pariah because he kneels for the Anthem, versus players who commit violent crime, often of a sexual nature, then there is a serious problem with the mindset of the owners and viewers.

Brother Fluffy, there may well be collusion. But I prefer to make my judgements based on all the evidence in a trial. We'll see what the courts say.

There are people all over America who cannot get jobs in their ideal fields, no matter who they talk to, for subjective reasons that may or may not be applicable to their skill set. Their temperament, their reputation or some other baggage they bring with them. That's not collusion. It's reality.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 14, 2019, 12:03:56 PM
I find myself leaning toward the other side of the CK issue than most people would expect.  Even though I don't necessarily agree with him on some of the underlying issues he is protesting (and also don't necessarily agree with a lot of the other issues that have tried to piggy back on him), I respect what he's done.  I think he's brave.  I think he stood up for what he believed in, at great cost, and I respect that.  Also, I am absolutely convinced that he is not currently playing in the NFL because he took that stand.

That said, I'm not convinced there is any collusion.  I don't doubt for a minute that NFL teams are retaliating against him because of what he did.
 If he hand't taken a knee, he'd be on someone's roster right now.  He's undeniably better than many QBs that are currently in the league.  But that's not the same as collusion.  I understand that owners don't want to touch him because he's a very controversial and divisive figure.  Because of that, he's not working while less talented QBs are.  But there's nothing that prevents all the owners from reaching the same conclusion.  If they reach that conclusion together, that's collusion.  But if each of the owners decides that he's just not worth the PR hit, that's not collusion.

Perhaps evidence of actual collusion will emerge.  If so, then he'll win his lawsuit.  But I just think a lot of people (not necessarily you, 82) think that saying "no proof of collusion" is the same as saying "CK isn't good enough to play."  He's absolutely good enough to play, IMO.  And I'm convinced he's not getting picked up because he took a knee for the National Anthem.  But that doesn't mean that I'm convinced there was collusion.

You know, that's all very reasonable. "Collusion" would be all teams working in concert to keep him out of the league, the way baseball teams colluded back in the late-80s to suppress salaries. So until a court of law rules that there has been collusion, I'll refrain from using that word. I like your eloquent, nuanced (and I think accurate) explanation better.

But those guys aren't sticking a finger into the eye of the customer base that pays for their salaries, that's the difference. They aren't also wearing pig cop socks.  I question anyone's honesty or knowledge that denies this reality, also.   Kap isn't good enough to put an organization through that.  If guys want to protest on their own time, have at it.  Once you do it at work, that changes the equation and ANY employer has a right to say enough.  There are many ways to effect change, and men / women do it daily.  He chose the wrong approach and the pig socks stuff pushed a LOT of people away.

The anti-cop socks were stupid. He also has said a couple of stupid things. This just in: He isn't a perfect human being and isn't even a perfect spokesperson for his own cause.

But I disagree that anthem kneelers are "sticking a finger into the eye of the customer base." You are free to disagree with my disagreement. Lots of people who stuck lots of fingers into lots of eyes fought for both of us being free to have opinions.

It's a peaceful protest -- and an effective one. All this time later, it still has us discussing it, which is the very idea of a protest. It also has resulted in the NFL donating millions of dollars to causes important to minorities, so it was definitely effective.

Every NFL kneeler that I know about who is good enough to play has a job in the NFL except Kaepernick. I'm not naive; I understand the ramifications of what he did and why most owners consider him toxic. And I understand the difference between a safety and a QB.

As an NFL fan and an American, I hope that one owner will be brave enough to give Kaepernick a chance to help his team win. Indeed, I hope David Tepper is that owner. As a Panthers fan who has seen his QB get hurt 3 straight years and whose backups have been less than stellar, I'd love to have a guy with Kaepernick's talent on my roster. I'm one fan. Some Panthers fans surely agree with me and some surely disagree. Some would cancel their season tickets, just as some claim to have done when Reid was signed. I say "good riddance," Tepper might not agree.

Tepper -- an owner who is no fan of the one American who used his bully pulpit the loudest and an owner who willingly signed and re-signed anthem-kneeler Eric Reid -- would seem to be among the most logical suggestions as an owner who would be willing to sign Kaepernick, no?

I say that not knowing what Kaepernick wants financially or playing-time-wise. The Panthers already have some salary-cap issues, so I don't want to pay any backup QB big bucks, and we obviously have a very good starting QB already. But if Kaepernick is willing to come to Carolina under team-friendly financial terms and accept his role, I'd love to see Tepper sign him.

A few days back, here in the NFL thread, all I did was say that I was happy Tepper re-signed Reid and that I hoped he'd consider signing Kaepernick, all purely for football reasons. Others, including you, turned it into yet another beating-the-dead-horse political discussion.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 14, 2019, 12:10:31 PM
Boy, this guy really stuck it to Nike and Kaepernick:

A Colorado sports store is closing its doors after sales dropped following the owner's decision last year to stop stocking Nike items, according to KOAA News 5 in Pueblo, Col.
Prime Time Sports owner Stephen Martin told News 5 that he can no longer afford his lease at Chapel Hills Mall in Colorado Springs after being open over 20 years.
Last year he decided to stop selling Nike items after the brand made former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick the face of its 30th anniversary "Just Do It" campaign.


https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/13/colorado-store-closing-colin-kaepernick-protest-nike
Stupid is as stupid does, my mom always said
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 14, 2019, 12:46:47 PM
Boy, this guy really stuck it to Nike and Kaepernick:

A Colorado sports store is closing its doors after sales dropped following the owner's decision last year to stop stocking Nike items, according to KOAA News 5 in Pueblo, Col.
Prime Time Sports owner Stephen Martin told News 5 that he can no longer afford his lease at Chapel Hills Mall in Colorado Springs after being open over 20 years.
Last year he decided to stop selling Nike items after the brand made former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick the face of its 30th anniversary "Just Do It" campaign.


https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/13/colorado-store-closing-colin-kaepernick-protest-nike

Dumb businessperson.  Michael Jordan said it best about who buys his sneakers, people of all walks of life. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on February 15, 2019, 09:42:58 AM
I'm sick of hearing about Colin Kaepernick. He has made quite a bit of money from taking a knee---at this point, he might not proactively be seeking a QB job in the league. It's hard to imagine that the Bills/Redskins didn't contact him when they were both in dire need of a decent QB.   Maybe he is not interested, maybe they turned him down.  If he truly just wanted to play, he could use the AAF to make a case for himself....if I was desperate to get back in the league, I would do anything.

If Kaep was a great QB, he would not have lost his job.  He was always mediocre....good enough to be the guy on a bad team, but would never take a job away from those guys who he had better numbers than in his last season.  Unfortunately, mediocre is not good enough to keep. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 15, 2019, 09:50:03 AM
I'm sick of hearing about Colin Kaepernick. He has made quite a bit of money from taking a knee---at this point, he might not proactively be seeking a QB job in the league. It's hard to imagine that the Bills/Redskins didn't contact him when they were both in dire need of a decent QB.   Maybe he is not interested, maybe they turned him down.  If he truly just wanted to play, he could use the AAF to make a case for himself....if I was desperate to get back in the league, I would do anything.

If Kaep was a great QB, he would not have lost his job.  He was always mediocre....good enough to be the guy on a bad team, but would never take a job away from those guys who he had better numbers than in his last season.  Unfortunately, mediocre is not good enough to keep. 


Nathan Peterman is still on an NFL roster.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 15, 2019, 09:53:01 AM

Nathan Peterman is still on an NFL roster.

Exactly. Said it before, say it again ... anyone who thinks Kaepernick is out of the NFL is because he's not good enough for the NFL knows zero about football.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 15, 2019, 10:28:01 AM
Is Pukuni hoopalopping with Da Pontiff? Dont remember pakuni being this argumentative in the past.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 15, 2019, 10:48:39 AM
I'm sick of hearing about Colin Kaepernick. He has made quite a bit of money from taking a knee---at this point, he might not proactively be seeking a QB job in the league. It's hard to imagine that the Bills/Redskins didn't contact him when they were both in dire need of a decent QB.   Maybe he is not interested, maybe they turned him down.  If he truly just wanted to play, he could use the AAF to make a case for himself....if I was desperate to get back in the league, I would do anything.

If Kaep was a great QB, he would not have lost his job.  He was always mediocre....good enough to be the guy on a bad team, but would never take a job away from those guys who he had better numbers than in his last season.  Unfortunately, mediocre is not good enough to keep.

Seriously, dude? You actually believe what you wrote?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 15, 2019, 11:08:15 AM
Is Pukuni hoopalopping with Da Pontiff? Dont remember pakuni being this argumentative in the past.

Maybe I'm just angling for an invite to the next beer summit. Don't judge.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on February 15, 2019, 11:10:17 AM
Seriously, dude? You actually believe what you wrote?

Dudette.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 15, 2019, 01:49:42 PM
NFL reaches financial settlement with Kaepernick and Reid.
Presumably, as with most settlements, no one will admit liability.

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-colin-kaepernick-withdraws-collusion-case-nfl-190149703.html
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 15, 2019, 01:50:18 PM
Kapernick and Reid settle their collusion case with a confidentiality agreement. Mike Freeman is already hearing that Kaepernick was paid somewhere in the $60M to $80M range. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 15, 2019, 03:38:47 PM
Kapernick and Reid settle their collusion case with a confidentiality agreement. Mike Freeman is already hearing that Kaepernick was paid somewhere in the $60M to $80M range.

I was going to start a thread on this but will just add to this one instead. Was going to ask for opinions on amount they received. My over/under was going to be $49.5 million. I would definitely have been betting the over.

Whether it rose to the level of actual collusion, there was penty of evidence - which the NFL obviously realized - to prove that not signing Kaep was not based on football results.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on February 15, 2019, 04:06:02 PM
Good.   Over.   
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on February 15, 2019, 04:07:57 PM
Kapernick and Reid settle their collusion case with a confidentiality agreement. Mike Freeman is already hearing that Kaepernick was paid somewhere in the $60M to $80M range.

Hmmm. In my experience entities that have done nothing wrong whatsoever, often settle by paying the other party $60-80M.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 15, 2019, 04:10:35 PM
Hmmm. In my experience entities that have done nothing wrong whatsoever, often settle by paying the other party $60-80M.

Can't wait to hear more about the "geniuses" who run the NFL.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 15, 2019, 04:40:48 PM
Can't wait to hear more about the "geniuses" who run the NFL.

The amount of money lost by the NFL and various entities that support it, PALES in comparison if that amount of the settlement is true.  Absolutely pales.  By nipping it in the bud, prior to new TV contracts, they can regain the value lost.  One study we had showed total loss in billions by NFL if they didn't get a handle on it.  NFL isn't stupid, this is peanuts for them....one time $60M (if true), compared to lost value of billions.  They will do that deal all day long and 10 times on Sunday.  Smart move even if you don't realize it because you aren't close enough to it.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 15, 2019, 04:46:36 PM
The amount of money lost by the NFL and various entities that support it, PALES in comparison if that amount of the settlement is true.  Absolutely pales.  By nipping it in the bud, prior to new TV contracts, they can regain the value lost.  One study we had showed total loss in billions by NFL if they didn't get a handle on it.  NFL isn't stupid, this is peanuts for them....one time $60M (if true), compared to lost value of billions.  They will do that deal all day long and 10 times on Sunday.  Smart move even if you don't realize it because you aren't close enough to it.

Got it. A $60 million loss is actually great news because association with Colin Kaepernick would have cost the BILLIONS.
See: Nike.
World class spin zone, Cheeks. Preposterous, but an impressive effort nonetheless.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: cheebs09 on February 15, 2019, 04:47:35 PM
Smart move even if you don't realize it because you aren't close enough to it.

(https://i.imgur.com/I7Hymis.gif)

I will agree with tower that I’m glad it is over. Wonder what Kaepernicks next steps are.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on February 15, 2019, 04:57:17 PM
One study we had showed total loss in billions by NFL if they didn't get a handle on it. 

Hope you didn't pay for that study. If so, ask for your money back, and fire them if they work for you.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 15, 2019, 05:15:16 PM
Hope you didn't pay for that study. If so, ask for your money back, and fire them if they work for you.

LOL.   Not hard to compute when you get into the ratings, the value per rating, consumer reactions, etc.  Again, you have 31 owners that have made an insane amount of money outside of the NFL, then they go to NFL and bring a lot of wisdom to the league along with their doers.  They know the value, this is absolute peanuts to them. The players know it, too, which is why they also came together....they know what's coming down the path and they aren't going to kill the golden goose.  Whether it is Morgan Stanley, McKinsey, Parks, insider research, networks, university studies, they all say the same thing and that is why everyone, players and league did their pivot. These people want to make money, not watch it go away or watch their values stagnate or even de-lever.

I'd love to hear your argument and numbers to justify it wasn't a slam dunk settlement for them to do and peanuts ultimately.  When the NFL takes in about $5B per year on TV revenue alone, and those contracts come due over next few years, nipping anything that causes an aggrevated slide = big revenue value preservation. HUGE when you view it over multiple years.

The Panthers sale was one of the big red flags in all of this.  They got $2.28B, they thought they were going to get $2.8B and it never materialized.   Only 5.9X value to revenue was paid.  Rockets got 7.4, Clippers 13.7, the Bills got roughly the same at 5.6X.  That was a huge wake up call for the league along with all the other items in play, including CBS and others with their losses in ad revenue DIRECTLY attributed to it. 

But whatever....been doing this a long time.  You seem to want to bring in your beliefs and ignore the dollars and cents to the impact.  To each their own, I'll deal with the hard numbers as will others.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 15, 2019, 05:27:22 PM
I hear that it is all Kaep's fault that participation in HS football is down.

They did a study so this is absolutely true.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 15, 2019, 05:47:47 PM
Cheeks then: The NFL isn't colluding against Kaepernick. He's just not good enough to be in the league.
Cheeks now: You're darn right the league colluded, and it was a stroke of genius that they did.

It's odd that he believes this somehow nips anything in the bud. Far as I can tell, it doesn't preclude Kaepernick from trying to play again, and I'd be surprised to learn that it would allow future collusion to prevent him from playing again. Moreover, it pretty much gives absolute freedom to players who wish to protest. This tells them the league can't do anything about it and any effort to try will result in the player receiving a big, fat check.

Anyhow, I'm curious to read this study that shows continued association with Colin Kaepernick would cost the league BILLIONS.
And I'm curious if Nike's real world experience might cast some doubts on the validity of such a study.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 15, 2019, 06:19:15 PM
Got it. A $60 million loss is actually great news because association with Colin Kaepernick would have cost the BILLIONS.
See: Nike.
World class spin zone, Cheeks. Preposterous, but an impressive effort nonetheless.

Nope, you don't get it.

$60M (unconfirmed) payout is peanuts compared to the loss of value on their next TV deal due to falling ratings as a result of the protests, which over years of contract would add up to billions over the course of that time period.  This isn't hard.  Not my numbers, McKinsey, Parks, Morgan Stanley, etc, etc, etc.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 15, 2019, 06:24:47 PM
Cheeks then: The NFL isn't colluding against Kaepernick. He's just not good enough to be in the league.
Cheeks now: You're darn right the league colluded, and it was a stroke of genius that they did.

It's odd that he believes this somehow nips anything in the bud. Far as I can tell, it doesn't preclude Kaepernick from trying to play again, and I'd be surprised to learn that it would allow future collusion to prevent him from playing again. Moreover, it pretty much gives absolute freedom to players who wish to protest. This tells them the league can't do anything about it and any effort to try will result in the player receiving a big, fat check.

Anyhow, I'm curious to read this study that shows continued association with Colin Kaepernick would cost the league BILLIONS.
And I'm curious if Nike's real world experience might cast some doubts on the validity of such a study.

The studies show continued anthem protests and the results by fans dilutes the value equation. If you wish to purchase the studies, by all means please do.  They are available for you to do so.

The fans have said with their remote control and wallets that they don't want those actions at games.....on your own time, fine.  Your first two sentences are wrong.  I said flat out that I believe teams on their own made those choices.  The league can do what they want in terms of settling and you may wish to call it what you may, but in the end this is an easy one for the NFL over the long haul.  The math is not hard.  Even without paying for said studies, you can find plenty of solid analysis on lost value of franchises, TV rights, etc by the actions taken. Ask yourself why 99% of folks got on board this season......$$$. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 15, 2019, 06:46:08 PM
   "It's odd that he believes this somehow nips anything in the bud. Far as I can tell, it doesn't preclude Kaepernick from trying to play again, and I'd be surprised to learn that it would allow future collusion to prevent him from playing again. Moreover, it pretty much gives absolute freedom to players who wish to protest. This tells them the league can't do anything about it and any effort to try will result in the player receiving a big, fat check."

  if you're thinking out loud pakman, this is fine and i respect your opinion.  otherwise, i would expect a little better effort from you.  but because it's cheeks, i guess it's your turn, eyn'a?

      unless something is written into the settlement, i can't imagine anyone preventing kap from playing again except himself.  otherwise, the nfl might as well keep the checkbook open.  also, i seem to recall a few teams open to taking a look at the dude and/or signing him, but i guess he "had a family to feed"

  i don't think you know enough about what's going on "within" the nfl to assume your 2nd statement.  if we are to assume you are correct, then why did the kneeling thing, with the exception of a few, seem to just go away? 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 15, 2019, 07:10:54 PM
   "It's odd that he believes this somehow nips anything in the bud. Far as I can tell, it doesn't preclude Kaepernick from trying to play again, and I'd be surprised to learn that it would allow future collusion to prevent him from playing again. Moreover, it pretty much gives absolute freedom to players who wish to protest. This tells them the league can't do anything about it and any effort to try will result in the player receiving a big, fat check."

  if you're thinking out loud pakman, this is fine and i respect your opinion.  otherwise, i would expect a little better effort from you.  but because it's cheeks, i guess it's your turn, eyn'a?

      unless something is written into the settlement, i can't imagine anyone preventing kap from playing again except himself.  otherwise, the nfl might as well keep the checkbook open.  also, i seem to recall a few teams open to taking a look at the dude and/or signing him, but i guess he "had a family to feed"

  i don't think you know enough about what's going on "within" the nfl to assume your 2nd statement.  if we are to assume you are correct, then why did the kneeling thing, with the exception of a few, seem to just go away?

He's not wrong in that it doesn't preclude him from playing....and maybe he gets a deal and maybe he lights it up.  Now, if he does get a deal and goes down the protest thing again, he'll have some public support from players but behind the scenes a lot of agents and other players upset as they value devaluation starts all over again.  The NFL fans have voted.  This year they started to slowly comeback, the league and NFLPA doesn't want their next deal devalued.  It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

A lot of interesting TV NFL stuff going to happen in next few months that may surprise some folks.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 15, 2019, 07:24:16 PM
Nope, you don't get it.

$60M (unconfirmed) payout is peanuts compared to the loss of value on their next TV deal due to falling ratings as a result of the protests, which over years of contract would add up to billions over the course of that time period.  This isn't hard.  Not my numbers, McKinsey, Parks, Morgan Stanley, etc, etc, etc.


If the NFL was so smart, why did they collude in the first place? 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 15, 2019, 08:08:23 PM
He's not wrong in that it doesn't preclude him from playing....and maybe he gets a deal and maybe he lights it up.  Now, if he does get a deal and goes down the protest thing again, he'll have some public support from players but behind the scenes a lot of agents and other players upset as they value devaluation starts all over again.  The NFL fans have voted.  This year they started to slowly comeback, the league and NFLPA doesn't want their next deal devalued.  It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

A lot of interesting TV NFL stuff going to happen in next few months that may surprise some folks.

  if you were agreeing with me-yes, i believe kap could play again if an agreement could be made.  if each side agrees to the value of a contract and kap's ability plays up to or beyond, win-win.  if he starts his "thing" again, there should rightly so be some animosity toward him because he would be potentially getting in the way of others making more money(devaluation).  then they should sue kap and his people. 

btw, is he still hanging with that angela davis-like woman? 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 15, 2019, 09:24:52 PM
This was a tacit admission that teams in the league colluded. You don't settle, for tens of millions of dollars, if you are going to win the suit.

I should have stuck with what seemed obvious instead of yielding to more nuanced explanations.

And I still hope the Panthers sign Kaepernick, though I doubt they will.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on February 16, 2019, 06:06:56 AM
Exactly. Said it before, say it again ... anyone who thinks Kaepernick is out of the NFL is because he's not good enough for the NFL knows zero about football.

I actually know quite a bit about football.  My arguement is not that he wasn’t good enough, because he was, it’s that he was not elite.  He was not even a top 20 QB.  He fell in the category that, that if he wanted to keep his job, he shouldn’t rock the boat, because he is replaceable.  If he was elite, like Tom Brady or even Andrew Luck elite, he could have pulled it off without repercussion.

He hasn’t played now for several years, so he is not as good as he was when he was on an NFL roster.  If he truly wanted to get back on a roster, he would try other channels to get a chance to prove to scouts and nfl GMs that he can help their teams.

He is making more money than he did as a mediocre nfl quarterback.  On top of that, he is getting the nfl money without the brain damage/CTE.  Good for him.  I’m sick of hearing about him like he is some victim.  He is not.  Give it a rest.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 16, 2019, 10:29:10 AM
I actually know quite a bit about football.  My arguement is not that he wasn’t good enough, because he was, it’s that he was not elite. 

This is very different from what you said previously.
And yeah, he was a top 20 QB.
In seasons in which he was a starter, his QB ratings ranked him: 7th, 8th, 16th, 31 and 17.
So, thee of five seasons in the top half of the league; only one outside the top 20 (when he ended the season on IR due to shoulder and thumb injuries).
And QB rating doesn't even account for the fact he was en elite runner at the position.
A guy who knows quite a bit about football should know this.

Quote
  I’m sick of hearing about him like he is some victim.  He is not.  Give it a rest.

He literally was a victim of collusion by the NFL. Sorry you don't like to hear that.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 16, 2019, 10:53:40 AM
Nope, you don't get it.

$60M (unconfirmed) payout is peanuts compared to the loss of value on their next TV deal due to falling ratings as a result of the protests, which over years of contract would add up to billions over the course of that time period.  This isn't hard.  Not my numbers, McKinsey, Parks, Morgan Stanley, etc, etc, etc.

Links, please.
I don't have the time or inclination to do it now, but we both know there are many reasons for falling TV ratings in sports (not just the NFL) that have nothing to do with Kaepernick. And we both know the NFL's TV rating loss mirrors - and in most instances is less than - ratings losses for the vast majority of programming overall. You're being disingenuous and you know it.
And to suggest the Panthers sold for an amount that was within the range of expectations - just not the highest estimate - is because a player on another team kneeled is ridiculous.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on February 16, 2019, 11:35:01 AM
This is very different from what you said previously.
And yeah, he was a top 20 QB.
In seasons in which he was a starter, his QB ratings ranked him: 7th, 8th, 16th, 31 and 17.
So, thee of five seasons in the top half of the league; only one outside the top 20 (when he ended the season on IR due to shoulder and thumb injuries).
And QB rating doesn't even account for the fact he was en elite runner at the position.
A guy who knows quite a bit about football should know this.

He literally was a victim of collusion by the NFL. Sorry you don't like to hear that.

Then you didn’t read what I said previously.  I said he wasn’t great, but he was good enough to be a QB on a bad team.  I said the he would never displace an elite starting QB. 

Also, not a guy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: WarriorDad on February 16, 2019, 11:40:30 AM
I was going to start a thread on this but will just add to this one instead. Was going to ask for opinions on amount they received. My over/under was going to be $49.5 million. I would definitely have been betting the over.

Whether it rose to the level of actual collusion, there was penty of evidence - which the NFL obviously realized - to prove that not signing Kaep was not based on football results.

ESPN reported today the amount may never be known or if a financial settlement was even reached per Kevin Seifert.  Both sides risk losing damages, if any were agreed to, if it is revealed.   My belief is the discovery phase would have been ugly for both sides, but worse for the NFL.  Collusion very difficult to prove, time to move on. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 16, 2019, 11:57:58 AM
Also, not a guy.

Apologies for that.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on February 16, 2019, 12:59:08 PM
Apologies for that.

No worries, can’t really tell by the screen name, and given the demographics of most sports message boards, safe assumption.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 16, 2019, 05:12:03 PM
High School football......you all might find this rather moving...I sure did.  Football will be fine.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=25989428

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 22, 2019, 11:16:43 AM
https://deadspin.com/patriots-owner-bob-kraft-charged-with-soliciting-prosti-1832807440
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 22, 2019, 11:22:45 AM
https://deadspin.com/patriots-owner-bob-kraft-charged-with-soliciting-prosti-1832807440

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/crime/indian-river-county/2019/02/21/human-trafficking-florida-massage-parlors-vero-beach-sebastian/2920354002/

A six-month investigation revealed human traffickers were luring vulnerable girls to massage parlors in Indian River County, where they were coerced into working as prostitutes, police announced Thursday. 

Ten spas from the Orlando area through the Treasure Coast into Palm Beach County were shut down Tuesday as law enforcement began making arrests.

"These girls are there all day long, into the evening. They can't leave and they're performing sex acts," Currey said. "Some of them may tell us they're OK, but they're not. We know that… even though we may have charges on some of them, we'd rather them be victims."

————-

If this is accurate (minding we live in the fake news era), he will not be the owner when training camp starts.

His son will be the owner and old man kraft will be banned from attending games and stepping foot in NFL facilities. 

This will be the elephant in the room when the patriots have their ring ceremony this fall.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUBurrow on February 22, 2019, 11:25:48 AM
WELL I'LL BE DAMNED. THIS IS THE KIND OF MAN THAT MR. KRAFT IS?? I HAD NO IDEA.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on February 22, 2019, 11:51:48 AM
https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/crime/indian-river-county/2019/02/21/human-trafficking-florida-massage-parlors-vero-beach-sebastian/2920354002/

A six-month investigation revealed human traffickers were luring vulnerable girls to massage parlors in Indian River County, where they were coerced into working as prostitutes, police announced Thursday. 

Ten spas from the Orlando area through the Treasure Coast into Palm Beach County were shut down Tuesday as law enforcement began making arrests.

"These girls are there all day long, into the evening. They can't leave and they're performing sex acts," Currey said. "Some of them may tell us they're OK, but they're not. We know that… even though we may have charges on some of them, we'd rather them be victims."

————-

If this is accurate (minding we live in the fake news era), he will not be the owner when training camp starts.

His son will be the owner and old man kraft will be banned from attending games and stepping foot in NFL facilities. 

This will be the elephant in the room when the patriots have their ring ceremony this fall.

Are you saying he will voluntarily step down? Or his family will want him to step down? Or the organization will ask him to step down? Or the NFL will ask him?

Because, even if true, I think none of the above happen and he's still the owner next season.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on February 22, 2019, 01:01:56 PM
Are you saying he will voluntarily step down? Or his family will want him to step down? Or the organization will ask him to step down? Or the NFL will ask him?

Because, even if true, I think none of the above happen and he's still the owner next season.

He will still own the team, but I definitely think his son Jonathan becomes CEO and becomes the public face of ownership. Bob will become Chairman of the Board or have some other like title.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 22, 2019, 01:05:25 PM
Hot rumor is that Kraft isn't the biggest name that got nailed in this (pun intended). *Reckless Speculation* - Gotta be Tiger, right?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on February 22, 2019, 01:08:08 PM
Hot rumor is that Kraft isn't the biggest name that got nailed in this (pun intended). *Reckless Speculation* - Gotta be Tiger, right?

Mar-A-Lago area...connections to Robert Kraft...it couldn't be...could it...?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 22, 2019, 01:09:08 PM
Hot rumor is that Kraft isn't the biggest name that got nailed in this (pun intended). *Reckless Speculation* - Gotta be Tiger, right?

My first thought, too.

Only other thing i can come up with is a big name politician since the "spa" is omly a half hour drive from Mar-a-Lago
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 22, 2019, 01:09:49 PM
Key Largo area...connections to Robert Kraft...it couldn't be...could it...?

Do we have a mind meld here, Wades?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on February 22, 2019, 01:11:20 PM
Do we have a mind meld here, Wades?

Yeah I chose the wrong "Lago" originally.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: StillAWarrior on February 22, 2019, 01:14:01 PM
Hot rumor is that Kraft isn't the biggest name that got nailed in this (pun intended). *Reckless Speculation* - Gotta be Tiger, right?

It's interesting that Kraft's name would be on the list, but someone else's name is withheld.  I mean, Kraft is a pretty freaking big name.

So, sports, politics or entertainment?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 22, 2019, 01:16:14 PM
It's interesting that Kraft's name would be on the list, but someone else's name is withheld.  I mean, Kraft is a pretty freaking big name.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. I thought maybe Tiger based on his past, the location, and maybe they didn't announce his name because he's out of the country. I have no idea.

I thought the Prez was low hanging fruit to be connected here (who the hell knows, maybe?) but I didn't want to get this thread locked. But yeah, it certainly occurred to me it could be him too. Although if this was in the last two years, it seems difficult that he'd be able to get to one of these places as prez (?).
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 22, 2019, 01:18:33 PM
WELL I'LL BE DAMNED. THIS IS THE KIND OF MAN THAT MR. KRAFT IS?? I HAD NO IDEA.

Yup. These old white guys scream about sex trafficking at the southern border while at the same time, they "meet up" with girls who speak no English, clearly are not here legally, and are forced to live in subhuman conditions.

Classy!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 22, 2019, 01:24:00 PM
Someone posted on Yelp a review of the massage parlor under the name "Tom B", I can't find it to post here, but saw it on Twitter, and it was hilarious.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on February 22, 2019, 01:28:33 PM
Mar-A-Largo area...connections to Robert Kraft...it couldn't be...could it...?

Jerry Jones. God willing
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 22, 2019, 01:30:04 PM
Are you saying he will voluntarily step down? Or his family will want him to step down? Or the organization will ask him to step down? Or the NFL will ask him?

Because, even if true, I think none of the above happen and he's still the owner next season.

I'm not so sure.
Marge Schott and Donald Sterling were forced out merely for what they said (horrible, racist things, but still, just words).
Jerry Richardson was forced out for being a lecherous old man, but not a criminal.
If Bob Kraft is legitimately tied to human trafficking, even as just a consumer, I don't see how he remains the face of an NFL franchise. He may still own the team technically, he'll be very much relegated to the background.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on February 22, 2019, 01:39:29 PM
I'm not so sure.
Marge Schott and Donald Sterling were forced out merely for what they said (horrible, racist things, but still, just words).
Jerry Richardson was forced out for being a lecherous old man, but not a criminal.
If Bob Kraft is legitimately tied to human trafficking, even as just a consumer, I don't see how he remains the face of an NFL franchise. He may still own the team technically, he'll be very much relegated to the background.

So a Joe Ricketts role
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: LON on February 22, 2019, 02:33:51 PM
So a Joe Ricketts role

Until his emails leak.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 22, 2019, 03:52:43 PM
7 rings

6 super bowls
1 prostitution
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on February 22, 2019, 04:17:29 PM
7 rings

6 super bowls
1 prostitution

there's a deflategate joke in here somewhere. Already saw "Tugrule" on twitter.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: StillAWarrior on February 22, 2019, 04:35:45 PM
there's a deflategate joke in here somewhere. Already saw "Tugrule" on twitter.

And, given that law enforcement has said that nobody is being cited that doesn't appear in surveillance video that includes the illegal act, there's a "spygate" joke in there too.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 22, 2019, 06:37:23 PM
Yup. These old white guys scream about sex trafficking at the southern border while at the same time, they "meet up" with girls who speak no English, clearly are not here legally, and are forced to live in subhuman conditions.

Classy!

I think most of the screaming is about the rapes going on, this is a bit different....no?  Both are wrong, one is WAY WAY WAY more wrong. 


And now R. Kelly charged with 4 counts today, including minors.  Some messed up people
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 22, 2019, 06:38:43 PM
I'm not so sure.
Marge Schott and Donald Sterling were forced out merely for what they said (horrible, racist things, but still, just words).
Jerry Richardson was forced out for being a lecherous old man, but not a criminal.
If Bob Kraft is legitimately tied to human trafficking, even as just a consumer, I don't see how he remains the face of an NFL franchise. He may still own the team technically, he'll be very much relegated to the background.

He won't remain, if found guilty.  He's the head of the TV committee and there are some HUGE TV decisions being made right now which adds to a lot of interesting drama at this point.  His son is the head of the digital committee, also with big pending decisions coming.   Interesting times.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on February 22, 2019, 07:01:04 PM
I think most of the screaming is about the rapes going on, this is a bit different....no?  Both are wrong, one is WAY WAY WAY more wrong. 


And now R. Kelly charged with 4 counts today, including minors.  Some messed up people

Are you really trying to qualify a "which one of these is worse" between rape and slavery?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 22, 2019, 07:06:55 PM
Are you really trying to qualify a "which one of these is worse" between rape and slavery?

Great point, Jes.

And, if these were underage girls (as reported) that Kraft had sex with - it is rape.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: reinko on February 22, 2019, 07:11:02 PM
Neal Brennan with 🔥🔥🔥

https://twitter.com/nealbrennan/status/1099055397820805120?s=12
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 22, 2019, 07:26:18 PM
Mar-A-Lago area...connections to Robert Kraft...it couldn't be...could it...?



Nah man, doubt dat its BO, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on February 22, 2019, 07:29:10 PM


Nah man, doubt dat its BO, hey?
Everybody doubts that.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on February 22, 2019, 07:30:39 PM
Cheeks’ patron saint of goal post shifting, Double Doink, is gowne.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001018686/article/bears-expected-to-release-kicker-cody-parkey
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: wadesworld on February 22, 2019, 07:34:54 PM


Nah man, doubt dat its BO, hey?

Hey could be Bo Ryan.  Heard he moved down to Florida pretty quickly...
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on February 22, 2019, 07:38:06 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought too. I thought maybe Tiger based on his past, the location, and maybe they didn't announce his name because he's out of the country. I have no idea.

I thought the Prez was low hanging fruit to be connected here (who the hell knows, maybe?) but I didn't want to get this thread locked. But yeah, it certainly occurred to me it could be him too. Although if this was in the last two years, it seems difficult that he'd be able to get to one of these places as prez (?).

Bets on junior
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 22, 2019, 09:35:41 PM
Are you really trying to qualify a "which one of these is worse" between rape and slavery?

Uhm, no

I’m comparing a misdemeanor soliciting a prostitute (what Kraft did) vs raping girls as they go on trip to border (a felony).

That’s what I am comparing since it was someone else here that was making the claim of what he did was hypocritical compared to what was going on at the border.  Unless someone is going to tell me that Kraft was responsible for trafficking, the comparison was ridiculously poor as I pointed out.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 22, 2019, 09:36:33 PM
Cheeks’ patron saint of goal post shifting, Double Doink, is gowne.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001018686/article/bears-expected-to-release-kicker-cody-parkey

So much delicious irony, but that’s ok....he was aiming for those posts and dead on target, ainaa
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 22, 2019, 09:38:11 PM
Bets on junior

You so want it to be true...can taste it...ainnnaaa? 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 22, 2019, 09:39:02 PM
Every crime is a crime ... unless one is perpetrated by a rich white guy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 22, 2019, 09:42:29 PM
Every crime is a crime ... unless one is perpetrated by a rich white guy.

Is that your credo or guilt?  Certainly nothing any sane person believes.  I saw the Carlos Spicey Wiener just got done paying for his a few days ago....he’s pretty vanilla last I checked....though I don’t know if he was rich as that definition seems to be as little as $200k to somewhere in the millions depending on who you ask.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on February 22, 2019, 09:53:58 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought too. I thought maybe Tiger based on his past, the location, and maybe they didn't announce his name because he's out of the country. I have no idea.

I thought the Prez was low hanging fruit to be connected here (who the hell knows, maybe?) but I didn't want to get this thread locked. But yeah, it certainly occurred to me it could be him too. Although if this was in the last two years, it seems difficult that he'd be able to get to one of these places as prez (?).

Michael Jordan
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on February 22, 2019, 10:05:14 PM
Michael Jordan

Nah, MJ has been philandering and dogging around for years.  No way he was this sloppy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on February 22, 2019, 11:00:31 PM
Michael Jordan

Jordan is way too sophisticated and smart for that. He’s been a total sleaze, but MJ would shock me.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on February 22, 2019, 11:35:02 PM
Jordan is way too sophisticated and smart for that. He’s been a total sleaze, but MJ would shock me.

I'm just trying to come up with names of people in that area that are bigger names than Kraft. I really don't think Tiger is a bigger name. He's also sleaze so wouldn't be surprising. Jordan was the only name I could think of (and he does have a home in the area).
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on February 23, 2019, 12:15:13 AM
Jordan is way too sophisticated and smart for that. He’s been a total sleaze, but MJ would shock me.

Dan Marino is the name that came to my mind.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: reinko on February 23, 2019, 04:24:30 AM
I'm just trying to come up with names of people in that area that are bigger names than Kraft. I really don't think Tiger is a bigger name. He's also sleaze so wouldn't be surprising. Jordan was the only name I could think of (and he does have a home in the area).

Wasn’t this a sting of a 12+ places statewide? 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 23, 2019, 07:40:07 AM
Tough day for Kraft.

The stock (Kraft Heinz - KHC) lost 27.5% and cut its dividend 37%!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on February 23, 2019, 11:37:14 AM
Is that your credo or guilt?  Certainly nothing any sane person believes.  I saw the Carlos Spicey Wiener just got done paying for his a few days ago....he’s pretty vanilla last I checked....though I don’t know if he was rich as that definition seems to be as little as $200k to somewhere in the millions depending on who you ask.

Exhibit A: Affluenza
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 23, 2019, 11:40:27 AM
Exhibit A: Affluenza

LOL

Family of four at $200k is rich?  No.  Middle class, but not rich

Class warfare is going to be such a winning hand....
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 23, 2019, 11:43:36 AM
Tough day for Kraft.

The stock (Kraft Heinz - KHC) lost 27.5% and cut its dividend 37%!

Bob Kraft is not affiliated with Kraft Heinz
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 23, 2019, 11:45:17 AM
New names rumored

Tiger (lives two miles away)

JW Childs, $4 billion VC in Boston

John Havens, former COO of Citigroup

More coming
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 23, 2019, 12:11:05 PM
LOL

Family of four at $200k is rich?  No.  Middle class, but not rich

Class warfare is going to be such a winning hand....


Less than 10% of American households make $200k or more.  By no means is a household income of $200,000 defined as middle class.  While not rich or wealthy, those households are certainly upper income. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on February 23, 2019, 12:50:04 PM
LOL

Family of four at $200k is rich?  No.  Middle class, but not rich

Class warfare is going to be such a winning hand....

No. It was my example of rich white guys getting away with committing crime.

Sorry for the confusion
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on February 23, 2019, 01:10:14 PM
New names rumored

Tiger (lives two miles away)

JW Childs, $4 billion VC in Boston

John Havens, former COO of Citigroup

More coming

Childs and Havens aren't rumored, they've already been named. Childs has a mugshot online.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 23, 2019, 01:30:39 PM
So why were all these high net worth individuals attracted to this run-of-the-mill strip mall with this run-of-the-mill massage parlor?  Is it just a coincidence and word of mouth, or was there something else going on as well?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on February 23, 2019, 02:27:07 PM
So why were all these high net worth individuals attracted to this run-of-the-mill strip mall with this run-of-the-mill massage parlor?  Is it just a coincidence and word of mouth, or was there something else going on as well?

My question is how many of them will do serious time in jail. Also, who is the mystery name that somehow was even able to keep their name off the list.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: StillAWarrior on February 23, 2019, 02:35:00 PM
My question is how many of them will do serious time in jail. Also, who is the mystery name that somehow was even able to keep their name off the list.

None of them. They’re charged with misdemeanors.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 23, 2019, 02:55:43 PM
My question is how many of them will do serious time in jail. Also, who is the mystery name that somehow was even able to keep their name off the list.

These are misdemeanors, not felonies.  They pay a fine.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on February 23, 2019, 02:57:00 PM
None of them. They’re charged with misdemeanors.

Well, how many of them will do jail time at all? The crimes are punishable by up to 60 days in jail, per offense. Kraft  is already facing two charges (total possible jail time of 120 days), and may face more as he was considered "a regular" at the spa.

In my opinion, these people should all be thrown in jail.

These are misdemeanors, not felonies.  They pay a fine.

Punishable by up to 60 days in jail per offense. They should get the maximum.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on February 23, 2019, 03:06:44 PM
Well, how many of them will do jail time at all? The crimes are punishable by up to 60 days in jail, per offense. Kraft  is already facing two charges (total possible jail time of 120 days), and may face more as he was considered "a regular" at the spa.

In my opinion, these people should all be thrown in jail.

Punishable by up to 60 days in jail per offense. They should get the maximum.

You're funny.

They aren't some poor black guys who have to use an overworked, underpaid public defender -- who has to publicly defend dozens of other poor black guys every day.

They are rich white dudes who can pay for the best lawyers ... and can even buy their sons bone spurs, if need be.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 23, 2019, 04:02:44 PM
Well, how many of them will do jail time at all? The crimes are punishable by up to 60 days in jail, per offense. Kraft  is already facing two charges (total possible jail time of 120 days), and may face more as he was considered "a regular" at the spa.

In my opinion, these people should all be thrown in jail.

Punishable by up to 60 days in jail per offense. They should get the maximum.

Jail terms on first-time misdemeanors are exceptionally rare, regardless of who the defendant is. If anything, these guys are more likely than an average Joe to get jail time because these are such high-profile cases and the state won't want to make it appear they're giving them a break (well, unless you're Jeff Epstein, perhaps).
But I wouldn't expect Kraft or anyone else here to go to jail on a first offense.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 23, 2019, 04:26:07 PM
So why were all these high net worth individuals attracted to this run-of-the-mill strip mall with this run-of-the-mill massage parlor?  Is it just a coincidence and word of mouth, or was there something else going on as well?

Young girls. Young.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 23, 2019, 05:09:09 PM
Well, how many of them will do jail time at all? The crimes are punishable by up to 60 days in jail, per offense. Kraft  is already facing two charges (total possible jail time of 120 days), and may face more as he was considered "a regular" at the spa.

In my opinion, these people should all be thrown in jail.

Punishable by up to 60 days in jail per offense. They should get the maximum.

First time misdemeanor charge, not going to happen and race has nothing to do with it MU82.  Sigh
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 23, 2019, 09:42:23 PM
You're funny.

They aren't some poor black guys who have to use an overworked, underpaid public defender -- who has to publicly defend dozens of other poor black guys every day.

They are rich white dudes who can pay for the best lawyers ... and can even buy their sons bone spurs, if need be.

either this should be in teal or it's a trolling ridiculous statement deserving of a...awww, never mind
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on February 23, 2019, 09:48:47 PM
Jail terms on first-time misdemeanors are exceptionally rare, regardless of who the defendant is. If anything, these guys are more likely than an average Joe to get jail time because these are such high-profile cases and the state won't want to make it appear they're giving them a break (well, unless you're Jeff Epstein, perhaps).
But I wouldn't expect Kraft or anyone else here to go to jail on a first offense.

Since he is facing two counts, does the 2nd one count as a "2nd offense". If so, Florida law requires a minimum of 10-days in jail.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 23, 2019, 11:55:58 PM
either this should be in teal or it's a trolling ridiculous statement deserving of a...awww, never mind

Yogi, only he is able to call others, trolls.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 24, 2019, 01:23:59 PM
Since he is facing two counts, does the 2nd one count as a "2nd offense". If so, Florida law requires a minimum of 10-days in jail.

Not likely.
Practically speaking, if the state does have the goods on Kraft, it's most likely this ends in some kind of plea deal that doesn't involve an admission of guilt (i.e. a no contest plea) and a sentence that keeps a conviction off his record, such as court supervision. I'm not sure anybody benefits from an expensive trial.
Even if this were to go to trial and he's found guilty, for sentencing purposes I would expect it to enter as a single conviction.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 24, 2019, 03:07:13 PM
So a Joe Ricketts role

Joe Ricketts has nothing to do with the team, doesn’t even like baseball, lives in Jackson Hole, and maybe attends one or two games a year.

So yes, a Joe Ricketts role.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: dgies9156 on February 24, 2019, 08:13:04 PM
Gang, this one is going to be a bad one before it's over.

Four separate Florida jurisdictions have launched probes related to massage parlors. Locals down here are shaking in their tracks. One of the people named is a billionaire head of a philanthropic organization in Indian River County. Kraft may well be the tip of the iceberg.

It will be interesting to see how the NFL deals with this one. Bob Kraft is arguably the most successful NFL owner in recent history and is up there with the Rooneys, Halas/McCaskeys, Maras, Jerry Jones etc. By most standards, his franchise should be in doubt and the Commissioner should be calling him on the carpet to sell. I share MU82's thought that this is unlikely.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 24, 2019, 09:41:05 PM
Gang, this one is going to be a bad one before it's over.

Four separate Florida jurisdictions have launched probes related to massage parlors. Locals down here are shaking in their tracks. One of the people named is a billionaire head of a philanthropic organization in Indian River County. Kraft may well be the tip of the iceberg.

It will be interesting to see how the NFL deals with this one. Bob Kraft is arguably the most successful NFL owner in recent history and is up there with the Rooneys, Halas/McCaskeys, Maras, Jerry Jones etc. By most standards, his franchise should be in doubt and the Commissioner should be calling him on the carpet to sell. I share MU82's thought that this is unlikely.

I agree. I think there is more here than we are seeing now.

Why were rich powerful men going to a strip mall for sex? It just doesn’t make sense on the surface.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 25, 2019, 12:54:11 AM
Gang, this one is going to be a bad one before it's over.

Four separate Florida jurisdictions have launched probes related to massage parlors. Locals down here are shaking in their tracks. One of the people named is a billionaire head of a philanthropic organization in Indian River County. Kraft may well be the tip of the iceberg.

It will be interesting to see how the NFL deals with this one. Bob Kraft is arguably the most successful NFL owner in recent history and is up there with the Rooneys, Halas/McCaskeys, Maras, Jerry Jones etc. By most standards, his franchise should be in doubt and the Commissioner should be calling him on the carpet to sell. I share MU82's thought that this is unlikely.

Jonathan will take over, Kraft won’t have to sell unless things get insanely bad.  His son will take ove4 and is well regarded by NFL owners.



Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: lawdog77 on February 25, 2019, 06:34:40 AM
I agree. I think there is more here than we are seeing now.

Why were rich powerful men going to a strip mall for sex? It just doesn’t make sense on the surface.
Sex addiction is a real diagnosis. Their arousal template may have them gravitate to young asian women.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 25, 2019, 09:27:21 AM
Why were rich powerful men going to a strip mall for sex? It just doesn’t make sense on the surface.

Why do some guys like dressing up like a baby or being treated like a horse or being whizzed on?
When it comes to what gets a person off, best to throw all logic or expectations of common sense out the window.
Maybe the seediness of the whole thing is exactly why Kraft was going there.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 25, 2019, 09:30:00 AM
remember, Kraft denies it even cryptically suggesting he was set up.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: lawdog77 on February 25, 2019, 09:40:31 AM
remember, Kraft denies it even cryptically suggesting he was set up.
Classic denial and gaslighting
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: reinko on February 25, 2019, 10:31:56 AM
remember, Kraft denies it even cryptically suggesting he was set up.

He denies anything illegal happened, so I read his denial as saying is what happened was consensual and not illegal.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 25, 2019, 10:55:43 AM
He denies anything illegal happened, so I read his denial as saying is what happened was consensual and not illegal.

Consensual or not, if he paid for it, it's illegal.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: reinko on February 25, 2019, 11:03:46 AM
Consensual or not, if he paid for it, it's illegal.

I ain’t making that argument, but his denial is that he did nothing illegal. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on February 25, 2019, 11:28:30 AM
Consensual or not, if he paid for it, it's illegal.

What if he had his fixer pay for it tho
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on February 25, 2019, 11:40:08 AM
I agree. I think there is more here than we are seeing now.

Why were rich powerful men going to a strip mall for sex? It just doesn’t make sense on the surface.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/an-anonymous-white-house-insider-knew-about-the-tug-rule-before-mr-kraft-was-charged
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 25, 2019, 11:42:27 AM
What if he had his fixer pay for it tho

No matta
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 25, 2019, 12:17:37 PM
WHAT WILL GOODELL DO? NBCSPORTS.com's Peter King notes Roger Goodell in his 12-and-a-half years as NFL Commissioner "hasn’t faced a situation like this one," which makes it "difficult to forecast what Goodell will do to Kraft, if the charges are true." If Kraft is found guilty, Goodell "couldn’t give Kraft a hefty fine alone," and he would be "more likely than not to be suspended." To recoup his image, Kraft could "agree to lead an NFL initiative to help fight human trafficking, and provide significant seed money for the project" (NBCSPORTS.com, 2/25). In Boston, Karen Guregian wrote it is "hard to believe Goodell will be inclined to throw the book at Kraft and take away draft choices, or force him to sell" the Patriots. It would "seem more in line with a fine and perhaps a suspension of games" (BOSTON HERALD, 2/23). USA TODAY's Jarrett Bell wrote Goodell’s track record on personal conduct matters "suggests that he’ll take action against Kraft," but the "key will be the swiftness and substance of any such move." Kraft "deserves his due process but not a double standard" (USATODAY.com, 2/23). In N.Y., Ken Belson wrote Goodell will "be under pressure to penalize" Kraft to "compensate for the embarrassment the league has suffered." Kraft’s case is "complicated," as he was "charged with two misdemeanors, and those charges may be reduced or dropped as charges of soliciting a prostitute often are" (N.Y. TIMES, 2/23). But ESPN's Jeff Darlington noted the NFL does not "need to use whatever happens in the legal system" to punish Kraft. The league's personal conduct policy states owners are "held traditionally to a higher standard" than other league personnel. Darlington: "If a violation 'damages the reputation of others in the game and undercuts public respect and support for the NFL,' that person can be disciplined" ("SportsCenter," ESPN, 2/23).
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on February 25, 2019, 01:34:51 PM
WHAT WILL GOODELL DO? NBCSPORTS.com's Peter King notes Roger Goodell in his 12-and-a-half years as NFL Commissioner "hasn’t faced a situation like this one," which makes it "difficult to forecast what Goodell will do to Kraft, if the charges are true." If Kraft is found guilty, Goodell "couldn’t give Kraft a hefty fine alone," and he would be "more likely than not to be suspended." To recoup his image, Kraft could "agree to lead an NFL initiative to help fight human trafficking, and provide significant seed money for the project" (NBCSPORTS.com, 2/25). In Boston, Karen Guregian wrote it is "hard to believe Goodell will be inclined to throw the book at Kraft and take away draft choices, or force him to sell" the Patriots. It would "seem more in line with a fine and perhaps a suspension of games" (BOSTON HERALD, 2/23). USA TODAY's Jarrett Bell wrote Goodell’s track record on personal conduct matters "suggests that he’ll take action against Kraft," but the "key will be the swiftness and substance of any such move." Kraft "deserves his due process but not a double standard" (USATODAY.com, 2/23). In N.Y., Ken Belson wrote Goodell will "be under pressure to penalize" Kraft to "compensate for the embarrassment the league has suffered." Kraft’s case is "complicated," as he was "charged with two misdemeanors, and those charges may be reduced or dropped as charges of soliciting a prostitute often are" (N.Y. TIMES, 2/23). But ESPN's Jeff Darlington noted the NFL does not "need to use whatever happens in the legal system" to punish Kraft. The league's personal conduct policy states owners are "held traditionally to a higher standard" than other league personnel. Darlington: "If a violation 'damages the reputation of others in the game and undercuts public respect and support for the NFL,' that person can be disciplined" ("SportsCenter," ESPN, 2/23).

Well if Roger wants to show he's not a patsy for owners (and he is), this is a helluva opportunity
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on February 25, 2019, 01:44:53 PM
Sex addiction is a real diagnosis. Their arousal template may have them gravitate to young asian women.

I understand that, dog. It wasn't the actual sex that made me question this. It was why numerous rich men from out of the area happened to end up at a "massage" parlor in a nondescript strip mall. What is the common thread that got them to that particular place?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: reinko on February 25, 2019, 01:47:06 PM
WHAT WILL GOODELL DO? NBCSPORTS.com's Peter King notes Roger Goodell in his 12-and-a-half years as NFL Commissioner "hasn’t faced a situation like this one," which makes it "difficult to forecast what Goodell will do to Kraft, if the charges are true." If Kraft is found guilty, Goodell "couldn’t give Kraft a hefty fine alone," and he would be "more likely than not to be suspended." To recoup his image, Kraft could "agree to lead an NFL initiative to help fight human trafficking, and provide significant seed money for the project" (NBCSPORTS.com, 2/25). In Boston, Karen Guregian wrote it is "hard to believe Goodell will be inclined to throw the book at Kraft and take away draft choices, or force him to sell" the Patriots. It would "seem more in line with a fine and perhaps a suspension of games" (BOSTON HERALD, 2/23). USA TODAY's Jarrett Bell wrote Goodell’s track record on personal conduct matters "suggests that he’ll take action against Kraft," but the "key will be the swiftness and substance of any such move." Kraft "deserves his due process but not a double standard" (USATODAY.com, 2/23). In N.Y., Ken Belson wrote Goodell will "be under pressure to penalize" Kraft to "compensate for the embarrassment the league has suffered." Kraft’s case is "complicated," as he was "charged with two misdemeanors, and those charges may be reduced or dropped as charges of soliciting a prostitute often are" (N.Y. TIMES, 2/23). But ESPN's Jeff Darlington noted the NFL does not "need to use whatever happens in the legal system" to punish Kraft. The league's personal conduct policy states owners are "held traditionally to a higher standard" than other league personnel. Darlington: "If a violation 'damages the reputation of others in the game and undercuts public respect and support for the NFL,' that person can be disciplined" ("SportsCenter," ESPN, 2/23).

You have lots opinions on lots of issues my dude, what say you???
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 25, 2019, 01:58:06 PM
You have lots opinions on lots of issues my dude, what say you???

I'll wait a few more days for more information, but my gut comments already stated.  Misdemeanor, probably a fine and suspension.  I doubt he is forced to sell team, based on what we know now.  If he is forced to separate from team, his son would take over which is the current path already setup for the future. 

Things can change with more evidence, but that feels in line with what happened to Irsay for his DUI under drug addiction.  The fact that it is a misdemeanor is important.  Hell, what he did would be legal if this was two years from now and his team was playing at the Las Vegas Raiders, but in Florida it is not....therefore some punishment will happen.

Interesting to see the strong denials, especially if video evidence is there.   
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on February 25, 2019, 02:15:00 PM
I'll wait a few more days for more information, but my gut comments already stated.  Misdemeanor, probably a fine and suspension.  I doubt he is forced to sell team, based on what we know now.  If he is forced to separate from team, his son would take over which is the current path already setup for the future. 

Things can change with more evidence, but that feels in line with what happened to Irsay for his DUI under drug addiction.  The fact that it is a misdemeanor is important.  Hell, what he did would be legal if this was two years from now and his team was playing at the Las Vegas Raiders, but in Florida it is not....therefore some punishment will happen.

Interesting to see the strong denials, especially if video evidence is there.

Considering how hard they come down on weed when it is legal in multiple markets, it'll be interesting to see the consistency in policy. Good point on the Vegas angle. Honestly if they come down softer than a failed drug test, in my eyes it'll be pretty hypocritical. Goodell's specialty i suppose.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 25, 2019, 02:41:29 PM
WHAT WILL GOODELL DO? NBCSPORTS.com's Peter King notes Roger Goodell in his 12-and-a-half years as NFL Commissioner "hasn’t faced a situation like this one," which makes it "difficult to forecast what Goodell will do to Kraft, if the charges are true." If Kraft is found guilty, Goodell "couldn’t give Kraft a hefty fine alone," and he would be "more likely than not to be suspended." To recoup his image, Kraft could "agree to lead an NFL initiative to help fight human trafficking, and provide significant seed money for the project" (NBCSPORTS.com, 2/25).


Let me guess that any "initiative to help fight human trafficking" will be more akin to awareness building with very slight actual investment in helping to solve the problem.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 25, 2019, 04:02:41 PM
Considering how hard they come down on weed when it is legal in multiple markets, it'll be interesting to see the consistency in policy. Good point on the Vegas angle. Honestly if they come down softer than a failed drug test, in my eyes it'll be pretty hypocritical. Goodell's specialty i suppose.

Weed is still illegal nationally, that also adds to the complication of drug policy. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 25, 2019, 04:05:00 PM

Let me guess that any "initiative to help fight human trafficking" will be more akin to awareness building with very slight actual investment in helping to solve the problem.

Gov't putting a ton of resources into this right now.  More arrests in last few years than last decade. Definitely a big problem. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 25, 2019, 04:19:18 PM
77-year old founder of a $4 billion private equity fund that was also implicated in the prostitution ring

 https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190225006077/en/J.-W.-Childs-Associates-Announces-Retirement-Co-Founder

J.W. Childs Associates, L.P. (JWC), a private equity firm focused on providing operational expertise to middle-market growth companies, today announced the retirement of its co-founder, John Childs.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on February 25, 2019, 04:20:53 PM
https://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/mr-kraft-got-head-the-morning-of-the-afc-championship-game-and-i-aint-mad-about-it-at-all

Video evidence. Yikes.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 25, 2019, 04:27:40 PM
https://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/mr-kraft-got-head-the-morning-of-the-afc-championship-game-and-i-aint-mad-about-it-at-all

Video evidence. Yikes.

If true, then he went from happy ending to the airport to catch his jet to KC to watch his team play which is about 3 hours air time.  Certainly plausible. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 25, 2019, 04:28:40 PM
So what comes out public first ... Bezos dic pics or this?  At least this is only 15 minutes.

Also ... what is the difference between “manual sex” and, presumably, “automatic sex.”


http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26078163/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-officially-charged-first-degree-solicitation-prostitute

Authorities say New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft visited a Florida massage parlor for sex acts on the morning of the AFC Championship Game, which he attended in Kansas City later that day.

The documents say Kraft arrived at the Orchids of Asia Day Spa in a chauffeured 2015 blue Bentley at 11 a.m. on Jan. 20. He was videotaped receiving oral and manual sex from a woman at the spa in Jupiter. Officials say he gave her a $100 bill and another bill before leaving at 11:15 a.m.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 25, 2019, 04:31:49 PM
So what comes out public first ... Bezos dic pics or this?  At least this is only 15 minutes.

 “manual sex”


Rosanne Palm 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on February 25, 2019, 05:35:05 PM
Weed is still illegal nationally, that also adds to the complication of drug policy.

And so is prostitution.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 25, 2019, 05:49:14 PM
If true, then he went from happy ending to the airport to catch his jet to KC to watch his team play which is about 3 hours air time.  Certainly plausible.



Plus, da dude kame in 11 minutes, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 25, 2019, 06:22:50 PM


Plus, da dude kame in 11 minutes, hey?

So 11 minutes in manuel did it?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 25, 2019, 06:24:22 PM


Plus, da dude kame in 11 minutes, hey?

dude is like 80.  full staff and done in 11 minutes, with an AFC championship to get too....not bad.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 25, 2019, 06:33:13 PM
And so is prostitution.

There are federal laws on books regarding weed.  You sure there are regarding prostitution?  Maybe, but I'm not aware of that being the case.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Goose on February 25, 2019, 06:34:00 PM
Ziggy

Not Bad? Big time impressive IMO.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 25, 2019, 06:38:00 PM
How much sildenafil wuz needed, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on February 25, 2019, 07:10:31 PM
Why do some guys like dressing up like a baby or being treated like a horse or being whizzed on?
When it comes to what gets a person off, best to throw all logic or expectations of common sense out the window.
Maybe the seediness of the whole thing is exactly why Kraft was going there.

Exactly. Remember when "Sexiest Man Alive" actor Hugh Grant was arrested with an absolutely hideous looking street walker? These kinds of things are usually head scratchers.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 25, 2019, 07:34:37 PM
Two points...

Prostitution is not legal in Vegas. In fact, it is specifically illegal in Vegas.

And while there is no specific federal criminal statute against prostitution, there are concerning trafficking, including conspiracy. So, in theory at least, a jogn knowingly patronizing a trafficked prostitute could be charged with conspiracy.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 25, 2019, 09:17:43 PM
How much sildenafil wuz needed, hey?

at least it's generic now, aina?  You able to prescribe that ish to rocket and goose?  Or do they have to visit that Roman website?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 25, 2019, 11:19:15 PM
at least it's generic now, aina?  You able to prescribe that ish to rocket and goose?  Or do they have to visit that Roman website?

that's for blood pressure,ain't it kinda??  hell, maybe it's even good for gum disease and bad breath too? ;D
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on February 25, 2019, 11:37:23 PM


Plus, da dude kame in 11 minutes, hey?

Ten minutes and 45 seconds longer than Quick Rick, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 25, 2019, 11:39:53 PM
One county over it is legal, but you are correct Clark County it is not....despite most acts of prostitution happening in Vegas for the state of Nevada...cops largely look away.

But as I thought, no federal law against prostitution unlike weed where there is.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 26, 2019, 07:41:20 AM
at least it's generic now, aina?  You able to prescribe that ish to rocket and goose?  Or do they have to visit that Roman website?



How's dat website, For Hims, workin' out for ya, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on February 26, 2019, 07:51:21 AM
One county over it is legal, but you are correct Clark County it is not....despite most acts of prostitution happening in Vegas for the state of Nevada...cops largely look away.

I'll bow to your expertise on the subject.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 26, 2019, 09:21:36 AM
I'll bow to your expertise on the subject.

We live 3 hours from the border, go to Nevada frequently.  Never have used, never will use such services, but being so close and frequenting as often as we do to the state, you pick up the local chatter for sure.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on February 26, 2019, 09:44:18 AM
We live 3 hours from the border, go to Nevada frequently.....but being so close and frequenting as often as we do to the state, you pick up the local chatter for sure.

Penicillin will kill dat, hey
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 26, 2019, 09:50:34 AM
Is local chatter da saym as national chatter, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on February 26, 2019, 10:22:53 AM
Is local chatter da saym as national chatter, hey?

Nope.  Local knowledge
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU B2002 on February 26, 2019, 11:25:25 AM
Quote from: Twitter Tracker

 
@Ky1eLong

Bear for Life 🙏🏼


Bears restructure Kyle.  Love it.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: barfolomew on February 26, 2019, 12:16:43 PM

Bears restructure Kyle.

As have the orthopedic surgeons.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 26, 2019, 12:34:30 PM
49ers place franchise tag on kicker Robbie Gould

So cannot go to the Bears next year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on February 26, 2019, 08:46:39 PM
49ers place franchise tag on kicker Robbie Gould

So cannot go to the Bears next year.

Bears owe Double Doink over $3 million.  They are going young and cheap.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on February 27, 2019, 11:21:58 PM
Bears owe Double Doink over $3 million.  They are going young and cheap.

If they replace Parkey, they are going to bring in Parkey 2.0.  Replacing a shaky journeyman kicker with another shaky Journeyman kicker.  Not improved, just a different
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on February 28, 2019, 07:09:30 AM
If they Parkey, they are going to bring in Parkey 2.0.  Replacing a shaky journeyman kicker with another shaky Journeyman kicker.  Not improved, just a different

Pace is not going to pay $6 million for kickers. He is going young, not journeyman,  and he couldn't get a worse performance than the Oleo Man provided this season. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUBurrow on February 28, 2019, 12:04:54 PM
Football to Jason Witten's brain:

(https://img.elcomercio.pe/files/article_content_ec_fotos/uploads/2017/11/20/5a1379aade9ca.jpeg)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on March 01, 2019, 02:25:23 PM
Murray, some are opining, may be the number 1 overall pick now?  Interesting
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 03, 2019, 08:14:52 AM
Yesterday's headline

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0k3tkEXQAASe8y.jpg:large)

He had a relationship with her (aka, his girlfriend).  He only paid for a message, the hummer was a gift.  So, no payment for sex.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on March 03, 2019, 08:22:33 AM
Yesterday's headline

He had a relationship with her (aka, his girlfriend).  He only paid for a message, the hummer was a gift.  So, no payment for sex.

Seems credible.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 03, 2019, 08:24:03 AM
I guess legally that might be a sound strategy, but really no one believes that.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 03, 2019, 08:42:37 AM
If he is found guilty, the league will have to punish him, which includes the potential that he has to give up ownership (sell or to his son).

If he is found not guilty, he can push back against any league punishment.

So, no amount of embarrassment will stop him from finding a way to beat this (no pun intended).

If this was only about the misdemeanor and nothing else, he'd plead guilty, play the fine and move on.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on March 03, 2019, 08:51:16 AM
If he is found guilty, the league will have to punish him, which includes the potential that he has to give up ownership (sell or to his son).

If he is found not guilty, he can push back against any league punishment.

So, no amount of embarrassment will stop him from finding a way to beat this (no pun intended).

If this was only about the misdemeanor and nothing else, he'd plead guilty, play the fine and move on.

The outcome of his legal case ought not have anything to do with league discipline.  Greg Hardy, Ben Roethlisberger and Ezekial Elliott, for example, were never found guilty but ended up with lengthy suspensions.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on March 03, 2019, 08:57:28 AM
The outcome of his legal case ought not have anything to do with league discipline.  Greg Hardy, Ben Roethlisberger and Ezekial Elliott, for example, were never found guilty but ended up with lengthy suspensions.

Yep yep.

And Jerry Richardson is a d-bag, but he was found guilty of absolutely nothing. He nonetheless was forced to sell the Panthers.

What's sickening is that when he sold the team, a term of the sale mandated that the statue of him be kept outside the stadium.

Also, after fleecing Charlotte taxpayers of millions of dollars, he turned around and gave some money to UNC-Charlotte and Wofford, and they named stadiums after him. A student-led movement to get his name off of the UNCC stadium was rejected by the school. Both places should be called Taxpayer Stadium.

Guys like Richardson have no shame.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on March 03, 2019, 11:52:57 AM
Yesterday's headline

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0k3tkEXQAASe8y.jpg:large)

He had a relationship with her (aka, his girlfriend).  He only paid for a message, the hummer was a gift.  So, no payment for sex.

Why is he paying "his girlfriend" for a message. Why is the hummer the gift, and not the message.

Totally BS argument, no reasonable judge/jury would ever buy it.

Can he prove the relationship, by showing him flying her up to visit him? Traveling with him? etc. I guarantee you he cannot or it would be widely present in the media already.

If he claims it was his girlfriend, charge him with perjury.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 03, 2019, 12:45:39 PM
The outcome of his legal case ought not have anything to do with league discipline.  Greg Hardy, Ben Roethlisberger and Ezekial Elliott, for example, were never found guilty but ended up with lengthy suspensions.

I agree with you but it is the only course he has.

Also, he is arguing the women that gave him the hummer (aka his girlfriend) was not a sex slave that lived in the basement.  She was free to come and go from the spa.  So, he trying to argue that means he was not contributing to the sex trafficking business. (the problem with this case is not a $60 hummer.  The problem is he got it from an organization that traffics in sex slaves.)

Yes, this is weak to the point of insulting.  But, again, this is all he has to work with.

He knows if he just says he is sorry and made a mistake the NFL will crucify him.  So he has to torture logic and reason and hire a big-time legal team to fight this.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 03, 2019, 01:37:10 PM
I agree with you but it is the only course he has.

Also, he is arguing the women that gave him the hummer (aka his girlfriend) was not a sex slave that lived in the basement.  She was free to come and go from the spa.  So, he trying to argue that means he was not contributing to the sex trafficking business. (the problem with this case is not a $60 hummer.  The problem is he got it from an organization that traffics in sex slaves.)

Yes, this is weak to the point of insulting.  But, again, this is all he has to work with.

He knows if he just says he is sorry and made a mistake the NFL will crucify him.  So he has to torture logic and reason and hire a big-time legal team to fight this.

  kinda like UNC offering the paper classes (slober-bobbers)to all the students, not just the b-ball players defense,  and the teacher("masseuse") is retiring anyway  ;) eyn'a?   ?-(
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 03, 2019, 04:10:08 PM
Nothing's gonna happen ta him. Da NFL has no choir boyz. Guilty of bein' a dumb chit, butt woodant bee da furst won, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 05, 2019, 10:38:36 AM
I agree with you but it is the only course he has.

Also, he is arguing the women that gave him the hummer (aka his girlfriend) was not a sex slave that lived in the basement.  She was free to come and go from the spa.  So, he trying to argue that means he was not contributing to the sex trafficking business. (the problem with this case is not a $60 hummer.  The problem is he got it from an organization that traffics in sex slaves.)

Yes, this is weak to the point of insulting.  But, again, this is all he has to work with.

He knows if he just says he is sorry and made a mistake the NFL will crucify him.  So he has to torture logic and reason and hire a big-time legal team to fight this.

Yeah, I'm not entirely convinced that, "I had a relationship with one of people running the operation" is better than, "I just wanted a cheap hummer" when the operation is a front for sex trafficking.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on March 07, 2019, 10:43:45 PM
The bills?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on March 07, 2019, 11:20:36 PM
The bills?

I’ve worked with the last two years on our commercials.  He’s an interesting guy that goes to the beat of a different drum.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 07, 2019, 11:24:01 PM
David Irving, Cowboys DT, smokes a blunt on Instagram in protest of the NFL's no weed policy, then quit.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/suspended-cowboys-lineman-david-irving-says-hes-quitting-nfl-until-marijuana-policy-changes/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/suspended-cowboys-lineman-david-irving-says-hes-quitting-nfl-until-marijuana-policy-changes/)

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 08, 2019, 04:26:30 AM
Things are going well for the Cowboys defensive line.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 08, 2019, 07:20:28 AM
Looks like rapaport jumped the gun.  No AB to buffalo.  #donedeal.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: tower912 on March 11, 2019, 04:56:47 PM
Lions reuniting former Patriots with Patricia and Quinn.   But I cannot complain about the signings.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 11, 2019, 05:25:39 PM
I'm not sure how I'd feel about Le'veon Bell to the Bears. I'd like to see them go bargain hunting on some vets in the second wave of FA to help their secondary, o-line, a vet wideout (I love Tyrell Williams but he'll be way too expensive for their liking). I think the safety market will workout in their favor, there's a glut of safeties out there, and even if Amos goes elsewhere, I'm not too worried about finding a replacement at a workable salary.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on March 11, 2019, 06:07:01 PM
I'm not sure how I'd feel about Le'veon Bell to the Bears. I'd like to see them go bargain hunting on some vets in the second wave of FA to help their secondary, o-line, a vet wideout (I love Tyrell Williams but he'll be way too expensive for their liking). I think the safety market will workout in their favor, there's a glut of safeties out there, and even if Amos goes elsewhere, I'm not too worried about finding a replacement at a workable salary.

Not a big fan. Too much $$$. Many other areas of need
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on March 11, 2019, 06:49:08 PM
Bears sign Mike Davis.

I would assume that pushes them away from Bell.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 11, 2019, 07:38:20 PM
Bears sign Mike Davis.

I would assume that pushes them away from Bell.

The Bell smoke today never really made sense, they just have too much depth to fill. After Davis and Skrine, they’ll only have about $10 mil to spend. Still need a safety.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: RJax55 on March 11, 2019, 08:04:03 PM
The Bell smoke today never really made sense, they just have too much depth to fill. After Davis and Skrine, they’ll only have about $10 mil to spend. Still need a safety.

Got to believe it was Bell's agent throwing out smoke. One look at the Bears cap space ruled them out.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on March 11, 2019, 09:18:02 PM
Today is always my favorite day of Packers Twitter as we collectively melt down watching teams overpay. Just wish jscomments were here to memorialize
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on March 11, 2019, 09:28:59 PM
Today is always my favorite day of Packers Twitter as we collectively melt down watching teams overpay. Just wish jscomments were here to memorialize

Counterpoint: Reggie White and Charles Woodson.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: cheebs09 on March 11, 2019, 09:55:32 PM
Counterpoint: Reggie White and Charles Woodson.

True, but Woodson signed at the end of April. He wasn’t a highly sought after free agent at that time if I remember right.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on March 11, 2019, 11:55:31 PM
Counterpoint: Reggie White and Charles Woodson.

I'm referring to the collective conditioning and handwringing that has occurred over the past decade that "we don't build through free agency".

And I was not aware Twitter was around in '93  ;D
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 12, 2019, 06:30:46 AM
I'm referring to the collective conditioning and handwringing that has occurred over the past decade that "we don't build through free agency".


I don't think anyone suggests that the Packers should "build" through free agency, but the lack of activity IMO could have prevented a B+/A- team from making that last step. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on March 12, 2019, 08:13:10 AM
Packers signing Za'Darius Smith from Baltimore and Adrian Amos from the Bears.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on March 12, 2019, 08:19:44 AM
I'm referring to the collective conditioning and handwringing that has occurred over the past decade that "we don't build through free agency".

And I was not aware Twitter was around in '93  ;D

Yeah, I was more commenting in your statement about everyone else overpaying.  Though I generally agree that there's a lot of that going on and some teams will get burned, I won't dismiss entirely the benefits of being aggressive in free agency.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: TallTitan34 on March 12, 2019, 08:51:24 AM
@FieldYates

Source: the Bears have created $11M of cap space by converting $13M of Khalil Mack's base salary & roster bonus into a signing bonus. Chicago positioning itself to make moves if desired...


https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1105443368946028546 (https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1105443368946028546)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on March 12, 2019, 09:01:58 AM
Interested in seeing the numbers for the Packers players, especially Amos. Don't like the signing as much as I did the prospect of signing Fuller last year, but Amos has been a rock back there for the Bears .

Update: It's been real, Nick Perry
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 12, 2019, 09:32:04 AM
Also signing Preston Smith from the Redskins.

Perry definitely gone, Clay only sticking around if he moves inside.

Also opens up the first round for them a bit more.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: forgetful on March 12, 2019, 11:25:54 AM
Also signing Preston Smith from the Redskins.

Perry definitely gone, Clay only sticking around if he moves inside.

Also opens up the first round for them a bit more.

I'm thinking they draft another WR in the first round.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 12, 2019, 01:08:25 PM
Interested in seeing the numbers for the Packers players, especially Amos. Don't like the signing as much as I did the prospect of signing Fuller last year, but Amos has been a rock back there for the Bears .

Update: It's been real, Nick Perry

Amos had an up/down career with the Bears. A few times, he lost his starting job, was once on the verge of getting cut, but turned around and had a solid 2018 season. Be interesting to see if his uptick was because of the Bears defense around him or he just matured and became a better player. At that money, I'm not worried about his loss for the Bears, but at the same time, I think if he can build off his 2018 campaign, he'll be solid/above average for the Pack.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jsglow on March 12, 2019, 02:01:42 PM
The one thing I'll say is that it's not Teddy's Green Bay Packers anymore.  4 guys today alone?  Teddy didn't get 4 in his entire tenure.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on March 12, 2019, 05:18:36 PM
I don't see how Z. Smith lives up to 16.5M AAV (hold to see guarantee breakdowns), but if the Smiths are healthy, that fact alone makes for immediate improvement over Matthews and Perry for pretty much the same money.

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on March 12, 2019, 06:26:30 PM
I'm thinking they draft another WR in the first round.

You hit on the biggest upside of these signings.

It frees them up to draft anyone now rather than having to focus on an edge rusher. Another one would be fine if a guy they like is there at 12, but it gives them the option to go WR, OL, or TE.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on March 12, 2019, 07:08:37 PM
Odell to the Browns
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 12, 2019, 07:16:00 PM
Amazing the amount of dead cap space teams are willing to live with on traded wideouts.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on March 12, 2019, 07:19:11 PM
Odell to the Browns

Dorsey is an animal.  What a trade.  A 1st and 3rd and a still unproven DB for a top 3 WR entering his prime? 

Baker, Chubb, Hunt, Landry, OBJ and Njoku?  Goodness thats a potentially wicked powerful offense.

And you add Vernon and Richardson to a pretty solid defense?  Browns are gonna be a top 4 team in the AFC next year
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: nyg on March 12, 2019, 07:21:38 PM
Odell to the Browns

Both Odell and Landry are good receivers, but are headcases.  Thats why Miami and Giants dumped them, just not worth the negative aspect.  Just wait until one of them starts saying they are not getting enough targets and then the fun begins.

But the defensive pickups they did are really, really good and they will cause some problems in that division.   
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on March 12, 2019, 07:29:13 PM
BROWNS!   ;D
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on March 12, 2019, 07:37:08 PM
Dorsey is an animal.  What a trade.  A 1st and 3rd and a still unproven DB for a top 3 WR entering his prime? 

Baker, Chubb, Hunt, Landry, OBJ and Njoku?  Goodness thats a potentially wicked powerful offense.

And you add Vernon and Richardson to a pretty solid defense?  Browns are gonna be a top 4 team in the AFC next year

The Browns are incurring some not insignificant risk here and giving up a lot for receiver. OBJ has some off-field issues and has missed 16 games over the past two seasons with a variety of leg injuries.

Obviously he's younger than AB, but when you compare what Oakland gave up for an arguably better (and definitely healthier and more productive) player, hard to say Cleveland didn't pay a hefty price.
And remember, teams don't trade elite players entering their prime just for giggles. Gettleman clearly sees something here the rest of us might not. That doesn't make him right  - it may very well end up an idiotic move - but I I don't think he's dumping his second best player without reason.

Nice to see the Browns going for it after so many years of misery, but this is not necessarily a slam dunk.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 12, 2019, 07:44:44 PM
Amos had an up/down career with the Bears. A few times, he lost his starting job, was once on the verge of getting cut, but turned around and had a solid 2018 season. Be interesting to see if his uptick was because of the Bears defense around him or he just matured and became a better player. At that money, I'm not worried about his loss for the Bears, but at the same time, I think if he can build off his 2018 campaign, he'll be solid/above average for the Pack.

Honestly, I don't think there will be that much of a drop off from Amos to Deon Bush. Maybe I'm wrong, but that front seven can hide coverage issues in the back. Amos was solid, but he wasn't exactly a playmaker.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on March 12, 2019, 08:29:36 PM
The Browns are incurring some not insignificant risk here and giving up a lot for receiver. OBJ has some off-field issues and has missed 16 games over the past two seasons with a variety of leg injuries.

Obviously he's younger than AB, but when you compare what Oakland gave up for an arguably better (and definitely healthier and more productive) player, hard to say Cleveland didn't pay a hefty price.
And remember, teams don't trade elite players entering their prime just for giggles. Gettleman clearly sees something here the rest of us might not. That doesn't make him right  - it may very well end up an idiotic move - but I I don't think he's dumping his second best player without reason.

Nice to see the Browns going for it after so many years of misery, but this is not necessarily a slam dunk.

The injury concerns are totally valid, but I think OBJ has a lot to gain by getting out of the NY media light.  I think the Giants realize that to an extent and realize that the fit just wouldn't be worth it moving forward and thats why they made the move.  Sometimes players just need a change of scenery and I think OBJ made some mistakes as a young player that he finds it hard to escape, especially on faltering teams in a brutal media market.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUBurrow on March 12, 2019, 10:11:05 PM
Obviously he's younger than AB, but when you compare what Oakland gave up for an arguably better (and definitely healthier and more productive) player, hard to say Cleveland didn't pay a hefty price.
And remember, teams don't trade elite players entering their prime just for giggles. Gettleman clearly sees something here the rest of us might not. That doesn't make him right  - it may very well end up an idiotic move - but I I don't think he's dumping his second best player without reason.

I think OBJ's and Landry's relationship is going to go a long way to mitigate their eccentricity.  Big time WR's being unique personalities is a tale as old as time, but they're tight and I don't think it'll bother them as much to lose targets to each other. Plus I think they'll like Baker. At any rate, Cleveland's never had this much swag.

The problem for NYG isn't just that they traded OBJ, its that it doesn't look like they have a plan. They signed OBJ to a deal with a big signing bonus, then immediately traded him thereby incurring a cap hit of most of that signing bonus. They got a decent enough haul for him, but I don't think it was above market. They have a great young RB but no QB, and a very spotty roster.  Barkley is great, but it seems weird to grab a skill position at #2 last year, then trade OBJ this year without a QB plan. If they admitted to rebuild mode, trading down, addressing the lines, defense, and depth would have been the way to go.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on March 12, 2019, 10:20:36 PM
The Browns are incurring some not insignificant risk here and giving up a lot for receiver. OBJ has some off-field issues and has missed 16 games over the past two seasons with a variety of leg injuries.

Obviously he's younger than AB, but when you compare what Oakland gave up for an arguably better (and definitely healthier and more productive) player, hard to say Cleveland didn't pay a hefty price.
And remember, teams don't trade elite players entering their prime just for giggles. Gettleman clearly sees something here the rest of us might not. That doesn't make him right  - it may very well end up an idiotic move - but I I don't think he's dumping his second best player without reason.

Nice to see the Browns going for it after so many years of misery, but this is not necessarily a slam dunk.

OBJ is better than AB.  Super bowl.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on March 12, 2019, 10:41:17 PM
OBJ is better than AB.  Super bowl.

Depends how one defines better.
If you're considering minor things like catches, yards, touchdowns. Pro Bowls, All Pro teams, catch rate, etc., Brown us better.
One-handed catches? OBJ for sure.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on March 12, 2019, 11:53:57 PM
OBJ is better than AB.  Super bowl.

Thank you. I needed a good laugh today.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on March 13, 2019, 06:58:07 AM
Depends how one defines better.
If you're considering minor things like catches, yards, touchdowns. Pro Bowls, All Pro teams, catch rate, etc., Brown us better.
One-handed catches? OBJ for sure.

OBJ is in his prime.  AB is exiting his prime.

OBJ on the Browns will be better than AB on the Raiders!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 13, 2019, 07:14:43 AM
OBJ is in his prime.  AB is exiting his prime.

OBJ on the Browns will be better than AB on the Raiders!


Need a quarterback to get him the ball.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on March 13, 2019, 01:41:43 PM

Need a quarterback to get him the ball.

Baker Mayfield.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 13, 2019, 02:10:33 PM
Baker Mayfield.

I’m fully aware who the Browns quarterback is.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on March 13, 2019, 08:11:23 PM
I’m fully aware who the Browns quarterback is.

Oh we’re gonna do the whole “Baker Mayfield, despite being a Heisman winner and winning multiple awards as a rookie despite beginning the year being jerked around by an inept HC and with huge expectations, isn’t a good QB” implication? You’re fun.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 13, 2019, 08:37:24 PM
Oh we’re gonna do the whole “Baker Mayfield, despite being a Heisman winner and winning multiple awards as a rookie despite beginning the year being jerked around by an inept HC and with huge expectations, isn’t a good QB” implication? You’re fun.


He is an unproven quarterback. Plenty of quarterbacks don’t take that next step. I’m hardly saying he won’t or he can’t.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on March 13, 2019, 09:48:02 PM
Oh we’re gonna do the whole “Baker Mayfield, despite being a Heisman winner and winning multiple awards as a rookie despite beginning the year being jerked around by an inept HC and with huge expectations, isn’t a good QB” implication? You’re fun.

What about the Heisman Trophy means that someone is or will be a good NFL QB? LI have a toothachert, Bradford, Tebow, Manziel, Griffin, Winston, Crouch, Weinke, and Wuerffel are curious.

I "think" Baker will be a good QB. But we will see what happens when the league adjusts to him this year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 14, 2019, 12:52:30 AM

He is an unproven quarterback. Plenty of quarterbacks don’t take that next step. I’m hardly saying he won’t or he can’t.

How about Mahomes?  He also has just one year under his belt.  Will the league adjust to him in a way that Kansas City has to worry about getting a QB next year?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on March 14, 2019, 06:15:31 AM
How about Mahomes?  He also has just one year under his belt.  Will the league adjust to him in a way that Kansas City has to worry about getting a QB next year?

All QBs are unproven unless they’ve been in the league for 15 years a’la Brady.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 14, 2019, 07:51:16 AM
What about the Heisman Trophy means that someone is or will be a good NFL QB? LI have a toothachert, Bradford, Tebow, Manziel, Griffin, Winston, Crouch, Weinke, and Wuerffel are curious.

I "think" Baker will be a good QB. But we will see what happens when the league adjusts to him this year.


And Bradford, Griffin and Winston were each all-rookie quarterbacks too.  Griffin obviously was injured, but Bradford and Winston were scouted and figured out.  Mayfield has to take that next step - and that is certainly not a guaranty by any means.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on March 14, 2019, 08:08:10 AM

And Bradford, Griffin and Winston were each all-rookie quarterbacks too.  Griffin obviously was injured, but Bradford and Winston were scouted and figured out.  Mayfield has to take that next step - and that is certainly not a guaranty by any means.

Even considering that he needs to take the next step, Mayfield already is a better QB than anything we have had since the return in 1999.

Also how many of those guys broke the rookie record for TDS despite not playing in all games this year?  Factor in that some of his starts were under an incompetent head coach and it’s even more impressive.  Not concerned at all about our FQB.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: cheebs09 on March 14, 2019, 08:49:17 AM
Even considering that he needs to take the next step, Mayfield already is a better QB than anything we have had since the return in 1999.


Don’t forget about Derek Anderson! Although he killed my fantasy team the next year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on March 14, 2019, 08:53:06 AM
What about the Heisman Trophy means that someone is or will be a good NFL QB? LI have a toothachert, Bradford, Tebow, Manziel, Griffin, Winston, Crouch, Weinke, and Wuerffel are curious.

I "think" Baker will be a good QB. But we will see what happens when the league adjusts to him this year.

Cause he’s consistently risen above or beaten expectations from college to the NFL. His first year was way better than Bradford’s and much more efficient than Winston’s.

I’m not saying he’s a shoo-in for perennial all-pro or finished product, but looking at him or the Browns prospects with two new weapons with pronounced skepticism is pretty lame.

I’d worry more about a new coaching stuff and a relatively green HC before worrying about QB when it comes to assessing the Browns potential
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on March 14, 2019, 09:34:15 AM
Don’t forget about Derek Anderson! Although he killed my fantasy team the next year.

Anderson was ok but he only had one good season.  Mayfield is way better.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on March 14, 2019, 12:07:21 PM
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/qbase-2018

Mayfield was projected to be off the charts good, and in the second half of last year he confirmed that he would likely live up to that. Of course he could turn out to be a bust still, but I think with the added weapons and a half year of data pointing the other way, the likelihood he's anything but a very good starter for a long time is very very low at this point.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jutaw22mu on March 14, 2019, 01:27:02 PM
This guy is a genius.  America's team.  Superbowl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoFF6P-3zac&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 14, 2019, 03:03:21 PM
I think the Bears played the safety market well. I also thought Clinton Dix or Gipson would be who they'd eventually end up signing to replace Amos. One year prove it deal for Clinton Dix at $3.5 for a guy who needs to be capable and solid is a good signing in this market. For where they are at salary cap wise and with pay days coming up for key guys, this is way better than having paid Amos in the neighborhood of $10 mil per year which is what the Packers are paying to Amos. Amos had the better year last year and may be slightly better than Clinton Dix, but that's a good deal for the Bears in this safety market.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on March 14, 2019, 03:49:24 PM
I think the Bears played the safety market well. I also thought Clinton Dix or Gipson would be who they'd eventually end up signing to replace Amos. One year prove it deal for Clinton Dix at $3.5 for a guy who needs to be capable and solid is a good signing in this market. For where they are at salary cap wise and with pay days coming up for key guys, this is way better than having paid Amos in the neighborhood of $10 mil per year which is what the Packers are paying to Amos. Amos had the better year last year and may be slightly better than Clinton Dix, but that's a good deal for the Bears in this safety market.

As a Packer fan, I love the Bears signing of Dix.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 14, 2019, 04:12:36 PM
As a Packer fan, I love the Bears signing of Dix.

Player A
$3.5 million guaranteed, 1 year
2018 missed tackles 8

Player B
$20 million guaranteed, 2 years (essentially)
2018 missed tackles 9

Player A career average per year higher in Tackles, Sacks, Interceptions, Forced Fumbles, Pass Deflections. Both players will be 26 when 2019 season starts.

I’m more than fine going with Player A as a Bears fan.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on March 14, 2019, 04:32:28 PM
Player A
$3.5 million guaranteed, 1 year
2018 missed tackles 8

Player B
$20 million guaranteed, 2 years (essentially)
2018 missed tackles 9

Player A career average per year higher in Tackles, Sacks, Interceptions, Forced Fumbles, Pass Deflections. Both players will be 26 when 2019 season starts.

I’m more than fine going with Player A as a Bears fan.

I'm going with my eyes.

I'm sure your numbers are correct, but now 2 teams wanted nothing to do with the guy. You will love it when he makes a great play - but then watch for the missed tacked and plays where he is utterly lost and out of position.

The Packers had hoped he would be their guy for years to come, but he wanted no part of being a leader on the field and they dumped him DURING the season even though they had no replacement.


Wondering if other Packer fans here feel the same as I.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 14, 2019, 04:46:25 PM
I'm going with my eyes.

I'm sure your numbers are correct, but now 2 teams wanted nothing to do with the guy. You will love it when he makes a great play - but then watch for the missed tacked and plays where he is utterly lost and out of position.

The Packers had hoped he would be their guy for years to come, but he wanted no part of being a leader on the field and they dumped him DURING the season even though they had no replacement.


Wondering if other Packer fans here feel the same as I.

For the record, Amos is probably entering his prime and has a higher ceiling than Dix. Amos is also going to be asked to do more than he had to in Chicago. I think Amos is solid and will be curious to see how he handles a bigger role. He was benched in his first two years in Chicago and nearly cut.

In a market place where safeties have been getting big money, to get Dix at $3.5 mil for one season is bargain shopping. I don’t expect an All Pro season from him, but I think he’ll be comfortable playing with his college buddy Jackson and have something to prove.

The biggest difference is the Bears don’t need Dix to be anything but their 10th best player on defense for them to be successful. Amos has to be a top 3 producer in Green Bay (and he may do that) for them to be successful.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on March 14, 2019, 04:58:42 PM

In a market place where safeties have been getting big money, to get Dix at $3.5 mil for one season is bargain shopping. I don’t expect an All Pro season from him, but I think he’ll be comfortable playing with his college buddy Jackson and have something to prove.


I've always liked Dix from afar (especially during his time at Bama), so please don't take this as bashing .... but in a market in which several safeties have landed long-term deals with 8-figure guarantees, is it a red flag that Ha-Ha was only able to get one year at $3.5 million?
Maybe he wanted a prove-it deal and hopes to hit FA again next year in a weaker safety class, but it seems unusual given all the money being thrown around at the position.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: barfolomew on March 14, 2019, 05:06:44 PM
I'm sure your numbers are correct, but now 2 teams wanted nothing to do with the guy.

I had heard the Reskins offered him a 1yr contract to stay, but he took the Bears offer.

Regardless, though, as a Bears fan, I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy about the secondary yet.
Plenty of time left to build depth, and I agree with Dish that HHCD was a bargain, but boy, they are one injury away from being really shaky on the back end.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 14, 2019, 05:14:11 PM
I've always liked Dix from afar (especially during his time at Bama), so please don't take this as bashing .... but in a market in which several safeties have landed long-term deals with 8-figure guarantees, is it a red flag that Ha-Ha was only able to get one year at $3.5 million?
Maybe he wanted a prove-it deal and hopes to hit FA again next year in a weaker safety class, but it seems unusual given all the money being thrown around at the position.

It’s been reported by a few different guys that Dix turned down more money elsewhere to sign with Chicago.

This was a very top heavy safety market. Bears went hard after Weddle immediately. Collins/Thomas/Matthieu were all going to get big deals, and then Amos/Weddle were right there after. Eventually supply/demand was going to squeeze some guys (Boston is still out there). The Eric Berry market will be interesting. A lot of good safeties coming out in the draft as well.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 14, 2019, 05:15:50 PM
I had heard the Reskins offered him a 1yr contract to stay, but he took the Bears offer.

Regardless, though, as a Bears fan, I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy about the secondary yet.
Plenty of time left to build depth, and I agree with Dish that HHCD was a bargain, but boy, they are one injury away from being really shaky on the back end.

Far and away, to me, is they were very lucky in the injury department last season. I can’t imagine that happens again this year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Jockey on March 14, 2019, 06:01:33 PM
For the record, Amos is probably entering his prime and has a higher ceiling than Dix. Amos is also going to be asked to do more than he had to in Chicago. I think Amos is solid and will be curious to see how he handles a bigger role. He was benched in his first two years in Chicago and nearly cut.

In a market place where safeties have been getting big money, to get Dix at $3.5 mil for one season is bargain shopping. I don’t expect an All Pro season from him, but I think he’ll be comfortable playing with his college buddy Jackson and have something to prove.

The biggest difference is the Bears don’t need Dix to be anything but their 10th best player on defense for them to be successful. Amos has to be a top 3 producer in Green Bay (and he may do that) for them to be successful.


It'll be fun to see which one of us is right on this guy..
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 14, 2019, 06:13:08 PM
Secund tyme weave agreed, Dix sucks, hey?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 14, 2019, 10:18:21 PM
How about Mahomes?  He also has just one year under his belt.  Will the league adjust to him in a way that Kansas City has to worry about getting a QB next year?

5 years to judge a'ina? Cheeks Law.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on March 14, 2019, 10:20:04 PM
5 years to judge a'ina? Cheeks Law.

Applies to coaching in college and some marriages....use at your own risk when applying to anything else.....
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on March 14, 2019, 10:52:11 PM
It’s been reported by a few different guys that Dix turned down more money elsewhere to sign with Chicago.

This was a very top heavy safety market. Bears went hard after Weddle immediately. Collins/Thomas/Matthieu were all going to get big deals, and then Amos/Weddle were right there after. Eventually supply/demand was going to squeeze some guys (Boston is still out there). The Eric Berry market will be interesting. A lot of good safeties coming out in the draft as well.

Weren't a lot of Packer Backers saying Dix sux now? I honestly don't know if he does or not, because I don't see him enough. I just seem to remember that. Should be interesting when Bears and Packers meet, though I guess that's a fun game most of the time regardless of who occupies the jerseys.

I'm happy with the safety my Panthers re-signed, Eric Reid. Played very well after signing last season. He's still young, and he can play either strong side or weak side. My boyz still need another good one, though.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 19, 2019, 07:38:03 PM
randy cobb is a cowboy now-$5 million

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26310109/cowboys-agree-1-year-deal-wr-cobb
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on March 21, 2019, 03:22:18 PM
Kapernick and Reid settle their collusion case with a confidentiality agreement. Mike Freeman is already hearing that Kaepernick was paid somewhere in the $60M to $80M range.

FAKE NEWS

Less than $10M. 


Sources: Kaepernick, Reid Getting Less Than $10M In Settlement
 
Colin Kaepernick and Panthers S Eric Reid will receive less than $10M to "settle grievances" with the NFL, according to sources. The confidential agreement was "widely celebrated as a victory for the players." However, the settlement is worth "far less than the tens of millions of dollars" Kaepernick, especially, "would have likely been owed if his grievance had prevailed." An NFL spokesperson declined to comment. An attorney for Kaepernick and Reid said that "they are respecting the deal’s confidentiality agreement" (WSJ.com, 3/21).
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on March 22, 2019, 09:23:11 AM
Nike stock is at an all-time high. I guess Kaepernick wasn't Kryptonite for that enterprise.

Not sure what Ted Kennedy would say about that, though.

Hic cup.  Ted would say the stock is down 4% after a difficult Q3. Hiccup



Nike shares fell late Thursday following the company reporting "weaker-than-expected sales in North America" during Q3 of its FY '18. Although its earnings "topped analysts' expectations," and total revenue was "in-line with estimates, Nike shares sunk" more than 4% after the bell. In pre-market trading, shares are trading at $88.01, down 4.81% (THE DAILY).
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 25, 2019, 05:15:02 PM
The Green Bay Packers will travel to Soldier Field on Sept. 5 for a Thursday night kickoff against the Chicago Bears, the league announced Monday.

Cool. 

Edit to remove moronic statement.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 25, 2019, 06:06:04 PM
The Green Bay Packers will travel to Soldier Field on Sept. 5 for a Thursday night kickoff against the Chicago Bears, the league announced Monday.

Cool.  Cubs should be able to get the field back in shape.  8 days between the Bears game and home stand starting on 9/13

You know the Cubs and Bears play at different stadia, right?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 25, 2019, 06:38:34 PM
Good idea or the end of civilization as we know it ...

-------------------

Two years ago the NFL changed the onside kick rule (only six guys on one side of the ball) for safety reasons.  The result was less than 10% of onside kicks have been recovered.

Now they are seriously considering a new rule that instead of an onside kick, the kicking team can put its offense on the field for a “fourth and 15” play to keep possession.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/03/24/yes-broncos-fourth-and-proposal-actually-has-chance-pass/
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Sir Lawrence on March 25, 2019, 06:52:40 PM
You know the Cubs and Bears play at different stadia, right?

Monday brain fail.  I saw Soldier and thought Wrigley. 
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on March 25, 2019, 07:50:32 PM
Monday brain fail.  I saw Soldier and thought Wrigley.

Wrigley would probably have better turf.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Cheeks on March 25, 2019, 07:54:37 PM
Good idea or the end of civilization as we know it ...

-------------------

Two years ago the NFL changed the onside kick rule (only six guys on one side of the ball) for safety reasons.  The result was less than 10% of onside kicks have been recovered.

Now they are seriously considering a new rule that instead of an onside kick, the kicking team can put its offense on the field for a “fourth and 15” play to keep possession.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/03/24/yes-broncos-fourth-and-proposal-actually-has-chance-pass/

This is being done currently in the AAF, but they are doing 4th and 12.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 25, 2019, 08:19:26 PM
This is being done currently in the AAF, but they are doing 4th and 12.

Chicos ... absolutely love your signature. It should be at the top of this message board forever. 

Because it is 100.00% true.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: jesmu84 on March 28, 2019, 08:22:54 PM
Bye bye Jordan. Hope the rookie is a good one
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on March 28, 2019, 08:32:46 PM
Think the bears can find someone that fits their scheme as well or better. They weren't going to pay him this offseason.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on March 29, 2019, 01:45:46 PM
Surprised there has been no discussion here on the NFL's new replay policy regarding interference calls/no-calls.

I think they opened up a big can'o'worms that will be painful to many of the 32 coaches who voted unanimously for it.

On pretty much every pass play, a defender touches the receiver. Does this mean there will be a review of every pass play in the last 2 minutes of every game? I think there will be a lot of borderline interference calls that, in the past would not have been even considered.

And how 'bout Hail Marys, which basically are maul-festivals. Let's see how happy some of these coaches are when they lose games because of replay review of Hail Marys. The cryin' is going to be almost as loud as Payton's was after the Saints' loss.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MUBurrow on March 29, 2019, 03:01:12 PM
Surprised there has been no discussion here on the NFL's new replay policy regarding interference calls/no-calls.

I think they opened up a big can'o'worms that will be painful to many of the 32 coaches who voted unanimously for it.

On pretty much every pass play, a defender touches the receiver. Does this mean there will be a review of every pass play in the last 2 minutes of every game? I think there will be a lot of borderline interference calls that, in the past would not have been even considered.

And how 'bout Hail Marys, which basically are maul-festivals. Let's see how happy some of these coaches are when they lose games because of replay review of Hail Marys. The cryin' is going to be almost as loud as Payton's was after the Saints' loss.

Agree '82 - making any no-call reviewable stinks and isn't going to make the game any better. Between limited replay and no replay, the former is the lesser of two evils - but so many awesome plays already have us going "are there any flags? did he cross the goal line?" You can't just watch and enjoy a play for the result on the field anymore. This makes the experience worse, not better.

They should just change PI to the college rule - lesser of a 15 yarder or a spot foul. If they're really worried about intentional PI down the field, then add a flagrant variant or something.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on March 29, 2019, 08:24:25 PM
The unintended consequence of the replay review on interference will be an uptick in offensive PI calls (especially pick plays) and offsetting PI on both offensive and defensive players on the same play. Don’t focus on the defensive PI, officials will adjust, it’ll be the smart coaches that use the review while on defense that will be strategic.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on March 29, 2019, 10:03:06 PM
The unintended consequence of the replay review on interference will be an uptick in offensive PI calls (especially pick plays) and offsetting PI on both offensive and defensive players on the same play. Don’t focus on the defensive PI, officials will adjust, it’ll be the smart coaches that use the review while on defense that will be strategic.

Excellent point.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on April 04, 2019, 10:14:03 PM
So I go to my umpiring assignment today -- 7 and 8 year olds playing "machine pitch" (they use a device that, in theory at least, consistently throws the same pitch at the same speed to every kid).

I hold my home plate meeting of coaches. The first guy says, "Hi, I'm Jim," and we shake hands. The second guy says, "Hi, I'm Greg."

It's Greg Olsen, Panthers All-Pro tight end and former Bear. His son T.J. is this age, and Greg is coaching the team.

Let me tell you, he was EXTREMELY intense, mostly with the way he "encouraged" his players: "It doesn't get any easier than a ground ball, guys!" "We have to hit the ball or we stand no chance!" "Just sit there and watch how the other team fields the ball. They do it right!" "I'm sick of watching us play this bad, guys!" Etc.

He didn't quite step over the line to being "one of those" parent/coaches, but it was close. (And maybe he did; I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.) I wanted to tell him to chill out a little, but that's not my job.

Again, these were 7 and 8 year olds. Any ground ball that gets through the infield is pretty much a home run for either team. I rarely umpire this age group, and I'm glad; the whole thing is always a clusterf%ck.

Olsen actually has an excellent reputation here in Charlotte. Does a ton of community service, including at the children's hospital. My wife (a pediatric RN) has seen him with the kids and says he is awesome.

But he needs to chill the eff out when coaching 7/8-year-old machine pitch baseball!

Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 04, 2019, 11:05:29 PM
So I go to my umpiring assignment today -- 7 and 8 year olds playing "machine pitch" (they use a device that, in theory at least, consistently throws the same pitch at the same speed to every kid).

I hold my home plate meeting of coaches. The first guy says, "Hi, I'm Jim," and we shake hands. The second guy says, "Hi, I'm Greg."

It's Greg Olsen, Panthers All-Pro tight end and former Bear. His son T.J. is this age, and Greg is coaching the team.

Let me tell you, he was EXTREMELY intense, mostly with the way he "encouraged" his players: "It doesn't get any easier than a ground ball, guys!" "We have to hit the ball or we stand no chance!" "Just sit there and watch how the other team fields the ball. They do it right!" "I'm sick of watching us play this bad, guys!" Etc.

He didn't quite step over the line to being "one of those" parent/coaches, but it was close. (And maybe he did; I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.) I wanted to tell him to chill out a little, but that's not my job.

Again, these were 7 and 8 year olds. Any ground ball that gets through the infield is pretty much a home run for either team. I rarely umpire this age group, and I'm glad; the whole thing is always a clusterf%ck.

Olsen actually has an excellent reputation here in Charlotte. Does a ton of community service, including at the children's hospital. My wife (a pediatric RN) has seen him with the kids and says he is awesome.

But he needs to chill the eff out when coaching 7/8-year-old machine pitch baseball!

slummin' it Nads.  We use 12 year olds for machine pitch umpires.   ;D

How many times did you toss your clicker into the air and catch it?  I think our league's record is 1498 in a 6 inning game.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on April 04, 2019, 11:37:12 PM
slummin' it Nads.  We use 12 year olds for machine pitch umpires.   ;D

How many times did you toss your clicker into the air and catch it?  I think our league's record is 1498 in a 6 inning game.

I ump whatever my supervisor tells me to do. I mostly do 11-12 year olds, but I also work plenty of 10U and Babe Ruth (13-16).

No clicker tossing for me. I'm afraid I wouldn't catch it and it would hit me in the eye!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on April 12, 2019, 08:03:53 AM
What is it about TE from Miami? Winslow needs help: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/04/11/kellen-winslow-ii-fights-elder-porn-evidence/3432542002/
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on April 12, 2019, 11:32:34 AM
So I go to my umpiring assignment today -- 7 and 8 year olds playing "machine pitch" (they use a device that, in theory at least, consistently throws the same pitch at the same speed to every kid).

I hold my home plate meeting of coaches. The first guy says, "Hi, I'm Jim," and we shake hands. The second guy says, "Hi, I'm Greg."

It's Greg Olsen, Panthers All-Pro tight end and former Bear. His son T.J. is this age, and Greg is coaching the team.

Let me tell you, he was EXTREMELY intense, mostly with the way he "encouraged" his players: "It doesn't get any easier than a ground ball, guys!" "We have to hit the ball or we stand no chance!" "Just sit there and watch how the other team fields the ball. They do it right!" "I'm sick of watching us play this bad, guys!" Etc.

He didn't quite step over the line to being "one of those" parent/coaches, but it was close. (And maybe he did; I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.) I wanted to tell him to chill out a little, but that's not my job.

Again, these were 7 and 8 year olds. Any ground ball that gets through the infield is pretty much a home run for either team. I rarely umpire this age group, and I'm glad; the whole thing is always a clusterf%ck.

Olsen actually has an excellent reputation here in Charlotte. Does a ton of community service, including at the children's hospital. My wife (a pediatric RN) has seen him with the kids and says he is awesome.

But he needs to chill the eff out when coaching 7/8-year-old machine pitch baseball!

You don't get to the top of your extremely competitive profession being passive and chill!

Olsen is a great dude, met him a couple of times in his Bears days and he's one of the most approachable, considerate, and genuinely good guy athletes you'll meet.  If his one "flaw" is that he's an intense coach for his kids?  I think thats passable.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Sir Lawrence on April 12, 2019, 11:51:23 AM
Forrest Gregg.  RIP
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on April 13, 2019, 01:51:26 PM
Jay has never sucked harder....

https://sports.yahoo.com/jay-cutler-once-cleared-kristen-cavallaris-milk-ducts-by-sucking-harder-than-hes-ever-sucked-135853186.html
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on April 13, 2019, 01:52:49 PM
Jay has never sucked harder....

https://sports.yahoo.com/jay-cutler-once-cleared-kristen-cavallaris-milk-ducts-by-sucking-harder-than-hes-ever-sucked-135853186.html

Now he knows that she never watched his division matchups.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on April 14, 2019, 02:47:36 PM
You don't get to the top of your extremely competitive profession being passive and chill!

Olsen is a great dude, met him a couple of times in his Bears days and he's one of the most approachable, considerate, and genuinely good guy athletes you'll meet.  If his one "flaw" is that he's an intense coach for his kids?  I think thats passable.

I don't know him except to have talked to him in media scrums years ago when we were both in Chicago. He does a lot of volunteer work at the children's hospital where my wife works, and she says he's a great guy.

If it sounded like I was really ripping on him, that's not what I intended to do. Based upon my experience and observations, I simply think he was a little too intense and too negative for 7- and 8-year-olds. That's my opinion. It doesn't mean anything close to "he's a bad guy."
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on April 16, 2019, 02:27:44 PM
Schedule coming out tomorrow.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: GB Warrior on April 16, 2019, 03:36:24 PM
Schedule coming out tomorrow.

I'm looking forward to calendarizing when I can write the season off as a lost cause and switch back to baseball.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 16, 2019, 03:49:57 PM
Schedule coming out tomorrow.

Good, gotta book those plane tickets to London soon.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on April 16, 2019, 06:39:23 PM
Good, gotta book those plane tickets to London soon.

You can book now. Bears/Raiders is Oct 6th in London.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on April 16, 2019, 07:23:40 PM
You can book now. Bears/Raiders is Oct 6th in London.

Pretty sure he was talking about Panthers-Bucs ... aka "The Big One."
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 17, 2019, 06:33:00 AM
You can book now. Bears/Raiders is Oct 6th in London.

Wembley or White Hart Lane?
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 17, 2019, 07:34:52 AM
Wembley or White Hart Lane?

Sir, that’s  “Tottenham Hotspur Stadium.”

😉😉
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 17, 2019, 09:10:51 AM
Sir, that’s  “Tottenham Hotspur Stadium.”

😉😉

And Amfam Fields of Milwaukee.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 17, 2019, 11:07:04 AM
Wembley or White Hart Lane?

Tottenham Hotspur new stadium at WHL it is.

The stadium has a retractable grass pitch over the turf for NFL games.  It's pretty cool.

https://youtu.be/JmeljNpIV1k (https://youtu.be/JmeljNpIV1k)
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on April 17, 2019, 11:28:22 AM
Tottenham Hotspur new stadium at WHL it is.

The stadium has a retractable grass pitch over the turf for NFL games.  It's pretty cool.

https://youtu.be/JmeljNpIV1k (https://youtu.be/JmeljNpIV1k)

That is absolutely cool as hell.  I get the size differences, but its kind crazy that all the concessions are made on the primary surface to accommodate a secondary surface
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 17, 2019, 11:37:03 AM
That is absolutely cool as hell.  I get the size differences, but its kind crazy that all the concessions are made on the primary surface to accommodate a secondary surface


I just wonder if those rails in the synthetic surface are going to cause a problem.

Let me say that I doubt they go through this much effort unless they had pretty good indication that an NFL team might be coming.  I doubt they do this for a couple games a year.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on April 17, 2019, 12:08:39 PM
Isn't this the same/similar technology for Arizona and the new Raiders stadium?

https://www.raiders.com/video/from-the-ground-up-ep-1-extra-natural-grass-field-tray
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 17, 2019, 01:36:19 PM
Isn't this the same/similar technology for Arizona and the new Raiders stadium?

https://www.raiders.com/video/from-the-ground-up-ep-1-extra-natural-grass-field-tray


Yes, but the surface underneath those two isn't another playing surface.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on April 17, 2019, 03:04:39 PM

I just wonder if those rails in the synthetic surface are going to cause a problem.

Let me say that I doubt they go through this much effort unless they had pretty good indication that an NFL team might be coming.  I doubt they do this for a couple games a year.

Couple games a year at a couple million each, and then also give yourself the option/ability to be the host if a team does move?  I don't think it needs to be anymore than that.  I'd imagine they'd also probably rather hosts concerts or the like on that synthetic surface rather than the pitch itself.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 17, 2019, 03:07:42 PM
Couple games a year at a couple million each, and then also give yourself the option/ability to be the host if a team does move?  I don't think it needs to be anymore than that.  I'd imagine they'd also probably rather hosts concerts or the like on that synthetic surface rather than the pitch itself.



Those are really good points.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on April 17, 2019, 04:50:14 PM
If my intel is right, the Bears will play an NFL high of 3 Thursday games.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on April 17, 2019, 04:56:07 PM
Bears 2019 sked

GB Thursday night
@Den
@Was Monday night
Min 3:25
Bye
@Oak/London
NO 3:25
LAC
@Phi
Det
@LAR Sunday night
NYG
@Det Thanksgiving
Dal Thursday night
@GB
KC Sunday night
@Min

I’m not sure why the bye is before London, but that’s what I’m hearing.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: DegenerateDish on April 17, 2019, 05:02:45 PM
I’m dumb, bye is after London. I’m bad at reading.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on April 17, 2019, 07:20:37 PM
Panthers at Packers 11/10. Road trip!
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 17, 2019, 10:39:39 PM
Couple games a year at a couple million each, and then also give yourself the option/ability to be the host if a team does move?  I don't think it needs to be anymore than that.  I'd imagine they'd also probably rather hosts concerts or the like on that synthetic surface rather than the pitch itself.

Concerts will be on the turf level, not the grass.  A big rugby team in London will be playing a few games there too, cant remember the team name.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on April 17, 2019, 10:40:49 PM
Panthers at Packers 11/10. Road trip!

Likely MU home game too.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: JWags85 on April 18, 2019, 09:51:21 AM
Concerts will be on the turf level, not the grass.  A big rugby team in London will be playing a few games there too, cant remember the team name.

Right.  As expected.  The NFL is a nice upside, but this is a way to get max use out of a new shiny stadium without negatively impacting the primary owner/resident.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on June 04, 2019, 08:28:22 AM
Excited that my Panthers signed the best free agent available, All-Pro Bucs DT Gerald McCoy. If everybody stays healthy, Carolina should have as talented, effective and deep a DL as there is in the NFL.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: Pakuni on June 04, 2019, 03:21:12 PM
Excited that my Panthers signed the best free agent available, All-Pro Bucs DT Gerald McCoy. If everybody stays healthy, Carolina should have as talented, effective and deep a DL as there is in the NFL.

You may want to reconsider:

@PanthersBill
Unashamedly, Gerald McCoy admits he likes Nickelback.
Title: Re: NFL 2018-19 2.0
Post by: MU82 on June 04, 2019, 05:45:23 PM
You may want to reconsider:

@PanthersBill
Unashamedly, Gerald McCoy admits he likes Nickelback.

Everybody has flaws, man!