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Author Topic: Y’all got Bezos’ed  (Read 20205 times)

Efficient Frontier

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Y’all got Bezos’ed
« on: November 06, 2018, 08:24:08 PM »
This is the shrewdest crap I’ve seen in a while. Spectacularly calculated. Imagine the amount of data they captured on over a hundred cities nationwide.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-hq2-change-leaves-cities-in-a-bind-1541535732?

To Recap:
1) Amazon announces nationwide search for HQ2
2) Cities offer billions in tax incentives
3) Amazon leveraged those offers to get hundreds of millions in tax benefits from NYC & DC (it’s biggest east coast offices now)
4) Amazon picks NYC & DC


dgies9156

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2018, 11:12:53 PM »
The bigger question that needs to be asked by cities that didn't win (are you listening Chicago?) is a simple one:

Why?

DC was the front-runner from Day 1. Bezos' interest in the post made it an almost guarantee.

New York was the shocker. I'd rather have expected that Atlanta, Dallas or maybe Austin might have been the first runner up after New York.

The amazing thing is that Illinois and Chicago got wiped out again. Yes, I know some of the tech companies are taking out more space and adding jobs in Chicago but the impact of those incremental positions is modest compared to what Illinois has lost: Foxconn, a Toyota plant that considered Global 4 near Rochelle but went to Alabama instead and now HQ 2. Illinois spent boatloads of money to keep Sears and, guess what, Sears probably will be gone within a year.


Efficient Frontier

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2018, 01:38:52 AM »

Efficient Frontier

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2018, 01:41:52 AM »
The bigger question that needs to be asked by cities that didn't win (are you listening Chicago?) is a simple one:

Why?

DC was the front-runner from Day 1. Bezos' interest in the post made it an almost guarantee.

New York was the shocker. I'd rather have expected that Atlanta, Dallas or maybe Austin might have been the first runner up after New York.

The amazing thing is that Illinois and Chicago got wiped out again. Yes, I know some of the tech companies are taking out more space and adding jobs in Chicago but the impact of those incremental positions is modest compared to what Illinois has lost: Foxconn, a Toyota plant that considered Global 4 near Rochelle but went to Alabama instead and now HQ 2. Illinois spent boatloads of money to keep Sears and, guess what, Sears probably will be gone within a year.
I don’t follow the logic of how the WP has anything to do with the location of HQ2. This was already a major site for Amazon independent of the WP.

Fill in the blank plausibly for me: “Jeff Bezos benefits from having a regional office of his $1T company collocated with the newspaper he owns because ______.”

D'Lo Brown

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2018, 02:51:25 AM »
I don’t follow the logic of how the WP has anything to do with the location of HQ2. This was already a major site for Amazon independent of the WP.

Fill in the blank plausibly for me: “Jeff Bezos benefits from having a regional office of his $1T company collocated with the newspaper he owns because ______.”

It is a delicious conspiracy theory that will be thoroughly savored for years.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2018, 05:03:03 AM »
The bigger question that needs to be asked by cities that didn't win (are you listening Chicago?) is a simple one:

Why?

DC was the front-runner from Day 1. Bezos' interest in the post made it an almost guarantee.

New York was the shocker. I'd rather have expected that Atlanta, Dallas or maybe Austin might have been the first runner up after New York.

The amazing thing is that Illinois and Chicago got wiped out again. Yes, I know some of the tech companies are taking out more space and adding jobs in Chicago but the impact of those incremental positions is modest compared to what Illinois has lost: Foxconn, a Toyota plant that considered Global 4 near Rochelle but went to Alabama instead and now HQ 2. Illinois spent boatloads of money to keep Sears and, guess what, Sears probably will be gone within a year.

Yeah I'm sure that Chicagoans/Illinois residents are really broken up about losing foxconn after it's coming out about all the insane concessions Walker made and now Foxconn isn't living up to their end of the bargain (as pretty much anyone with a brain said they would)
Maigh Eo for Sam

JWags85

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2018, 06:36:13 AM »
I don’t follow the logic of how the WP has anything to do with the location of HQ2. This was already a major site for Amazon independent of the WP.

Fill in the blank plausibly for me: “Jeff Bezos benefits from having a regional office of his $1T company collocated with the newspaper he owns because ______.”

Cause it’s his secondary home base after Seattle. He has a home there and spends much time there for WP and governmental influence/meetings.

Of course he is wealthy enough to have homes anywhere, but I’m sure there is appeal to having it where he’s already established

dgies9156

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2018, 06:46:16 AM »
Yeah I'm sure that Chicagoans/Illinois residents are really broken up about losing foxconn after it's coming out about all the insane concessions Walker made and now Foxconn isn't living up to their end of the bargain (as pretty much anyone with a brain said they would)

Well, it would have required spending money Illinois doesn't have. But you are missing the larger point. We can debate the merits of Foxconn -- time will tell who is right. But the fact that major corporate investments such as Toyota, HQ2 and Foxconn are looking past the state that should be the economic driver of the Midwest should be disconcerting to Illinoisians.

If Illinois ever expects to break the cycle of poverty and misery that prevails in too many neighborhoods in the state, it's going to take private investment. And that's going to require incentives from the state. It's also going to require an economic and political environment that makes the state attractive to outside interests.

Efficient Frontier

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2018, 07:52:25 AM »
Cause it’s his secondary home base after Seattle. He has a home there and spends much time there for WP and governmental influence/meetings.

Of course he is wealthy enough to have homes anywhere, but I’m sure there is appeal to having it where he’s already established
He also has homes in Beverley Hills and Texas, and Amazon is headquartered in Seattle. His job requires him to travel regularly regardless of where he has a house/office.

Unless you’re breaking a story here, I’m not aware of any operational role he has in WP. I believe in an interview recently shared he’s there once a month.

Also this move for offices near DC and in NYC are not relocating Bezos’s Office. He’s still going to be in Seattle.

dgies9156

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2018, 09:10:29 AM »
He also has homes in Beverley Hills and Texas, and Amazon is headquartered in Seattle. His job requires him to travel regularly regardless of where he has a house/office.

Unless you’re breaking a story here, I’m not aware of any operational role he has in WP. I believe in an interview recently shared he’s there once a month.

Also this move for offices near DC and in NYC are not relocating Bezos’s Office. He’s still going to be in Seattle.

Read the Wall Street Journal today. They cite the WP as a reason why from the beginning the DC area was thought of as the leader.

Pakuni

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2018, 09:42:22 AM »
Well, it would have required spending money Illinois doesn't have. But you are missing the larger point. We can debate the merits of Foxconn -- time will tell who is right. But the fact that major corporate investments such as Toyota, HQ2 and Foxconn are looking past the state that should be the economic driver of the Midwest should be disconcerting to Illinoisians.

It would be troubling if it were true. But it isn't. Illinois continues to get plenty of major corporate investment. To wit:
- In 2017, the Chicago area saw a record 351 corporate relocations and expansions, accounting for $2.2 billion in new investment.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/chicago-with-a-lift-from-ohares-planned-revamp-again-named-best-corporate-relocation-target-2018-03-05
- For five years running, Site Selection magazine has named Chicago the the top metro area in the nation for corporate relocation and investment
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/chicago-named-best-corporate-relocation-target/
- McDonalds, ConAgra, GE Healthcare, Caterpillar, Dyson, Aspen Dental, eXP and ADM are among the companies that have chosen Chicago for their corporate HQs in recent years
- Both Google and Apple are looking at Chicago as a location for new corporate facilities

And has been pointed out, Illinois should be thanking its lucky stars Foxconn looked past the state. It's already a trainwreck for Wisconsin, and will continue to be so for decades.


JWags85

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2018, 10:13:21 AM »
It would be troubling if it were true. But it isn't. Illinois continues to get plenty of major corporate investment. To wit:

- McDonalds, ConAgra, GE Healthcare, Caterpillar, Dyson, Aspen Dental, eXP and ADM are among the companies that have chosen Chicago for their corporate HQs in recent years
- Both Google and Apple are looking at Chicago as a location for new corporate facilities

Of the companies you highlighted, more than half moved to Chicago from other cities in IL. Caterpillar from Peoria, ADM from Decatur, McDonalds from the burbs. Same with Beam Suntory. Dyson moved their office, but their US HQ has been in Chicago for 20+ years. Those aren’t wins for Illinois, they are just moving things around. The eXP and Aspen Dental were nice wins, but that was under 500 jobs combined

GE healthcare was good, but that was returning the company to its roots. Google and Apple would be interesting, but it remains to be seen.

GGGG

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2018, 10:23:35 AM »
Of the companies you highlighted, more than half moved to Chicago from other cities in IL. Caterpillar from Peoria, ADM from Decatur, McDonalds from the burbs. Same with Beam Suntory. Dyson moved their office, but their US HQ has been in Chicago for 20+ years. Those aren’t wins for Illinois, they are just moving things around. The eXP and Aspen Dental were nice wins, but that was under 500 jobs combined

GE healthcare was good, but that was returning the company to its roots. Google and Apple would be interesting, but it remains to be seen.


You are making the assumption that those companies would have stayed where they were, but they chose to relocate to Chicago instead of all sorts of other options.

The fact is Chicago remains to be a great place for business for a myriad of reasons.  Educated workforce, attractive to young and older employees, transportation, etc.  Like many cities it has its problems, but let's not act like its a wasteland.

Really "Chicagoland" and the rest of Illinois are really very different entities.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 10:39:00 AM by Sultan of South Wayne »

Pakuni

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2018, 10:36:25 AM »
Of the companies you highlighted, more than half moved to Chicago from other cities in IL. Caterpillar from Peoria, ADM from Decatur, McDonalds from the burbs. Same with Beam Suntory. Dyson moved their office, but their US HQ has been in Chicago for 20+ years. Those aren’t wins for Illinois, they are just moving things around. The eXP and Aspen Dental were nice wins, but that was under 500 jobs combined

GE healthcare was good, but that was returning the company to its roots. Google and Apple would be interesting, but it remains to be seen.

But as Sultan already points out, those companies didn't have to remain in Illinois. And if the state's business climate were as awful as some here suggest - and other Midwest states as alluring - they would have left. But for various reasons they all determined that Chicago was their best option.
In 2013, Illinois was HQ for 32 Fortune 500 companies. This year, it's up to 37.
Illinois absolutely has more than its share of challenges, but the facts simply belie the "Illinois sucks for business" narrative that so many here are so eager to push.

JWags85

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2018, 10:51:54 AM »
But as Sultan already points out, those companies didn't have to remain in Illinois. And if the state's business climate were as awful as some here suggest - and other Midwest states as alluring - they would have left. But for various reasons they all determined that Chicago was their best option.
In 2013, Illinois was HQ for 32 Fortune 500 companies. This year, it's up to 37.
Illinois absolutely has more than its share of challenges, but the facts simply belie the "Illinois sucks for business" narrative that so many here are so eager to push.

That’s fair. I don’t think Illinois is particularly great for business, but the benefits of Chicago, it’s draw, and it’s education hub/workforce outweigh that. Especially in comparison to many other places to move within the Midwest

Benny B

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2018, 01:27:25 PM »
I don’t follow the logic of how the WP has anything to do with the location of HQ2. This was already a major site for Amazon independent of the WP.

Fill in the blank plausibly for me: “Jeff Bezos benefits from having a regional office of his $1T company collocated with the newspaper he owns because ______.”

Asked and answered.   10 months ago.

I would take that bet in a heartbeat, but Snacks already beat me to it.

The winner will be one of the three from the DC area.  Book it, bank it, and let it draw interest.

Bezos already owns the Post, he just bought a house in DC, and - most significantly - with all the talk in Washington of Amazon being part of an oligopoly (or an outright monopoly) - for which the drums will only beat louder as Amazon grows bigger - Jeffy needs a local base from which to launch his lobbyist defenses.

Amazon's already made their decision.  Just like Tesla chose Reno and Foxconn chose SEWI long before they announced their decisions publicly just so they could extract the maximum possible from the state and local governments.

Amazon did it smartly, however... not only do they have 19 other locales they can use as leverage with their top choice, but they also have two neighbors they can really play off of one another.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

dgies9156

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2018, 04:34:14 PM »
But as Sultan already points out, those companies didn't have to remain in Illinois. And if the state's business climate were as awful as some here suggest - and other Midwest states as alluring - they would have left. But for various reasons they all determined that Chicago was their best option.
In 2013, Illinois was HQ for 32 Fortune 500 companies. This year, it's up to 37.
Illinois absolutely has more than its share of challenges, but the facts simply belie the "Illinois sucks for business" narrative that so many here are so eager to push.

1) Illinois is losing about 80,000 persons, net, annually due to outmigration at a time when the rest of the nation is growing, substantially.

2) Illinois likely will lose two seats in Congress after the 2020 census, probably to Texas and/or Florida.

3) Illinois has a state public pension deficit of between $150 billion and $200 billion and someone will have to pay it off. That excludes the City of Chicago. Business knows that and massive new investments in plant and equipment don't come.

4) It is notable that all of the investments of which you speak are "people" investments that can be moved on a dime (well, maybe a half dollar) to Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte or elsewhere depending on changes in the state's economic environment.

5) Even then, the state had to all but bribe some of these firms to stay. Case in point: Sears Holdings LLC. The initial incentives created at the time of the Hoffman Estates HQ expired a few years back and Sears was back at the trough asking for more and threatening to move. Somebody probably should have told them, "good riddance." Boeing's headquarters came at a high cost

Look, I've lived in Illinois since 1978 and still have a home in the Chicago suburbs. I want nothing more than for the state to do what it should be doing -- driving the Midwestern economy and leading the national economy. My children will be building their careers in the state and I want them to be successful. To do that requires a vibrant and exceptional economy and nothwithstanding the tech boom on the West Side of Chicago, the state's economy is not vibrant. Amazon reinforced that point this morning.


D'Lo Brown

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2018, 04:41:28 PM »
1) Illinois is losing about 80,000 persons, net, annually due to outmigration at a time when the rest of the nation is growing, substantially.

2) Illinois likely will lose two seats in Congress after the 2020 census, probably to Texas and/or Florida.

3) Illinois has a state public pension deficit of between $150 billion and $200 billion and someone will have to pay it off. That excludes the City of Chicago. Business knows that and massive new investments in plant and equipment don't come.

4) It is notable that all of the investments of which you speak are "people" investments that can be moved on a dime (well, maybe a half dollar) to Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte or elsewhere depending on changes in the state's economic environment.

5) Even then, the state had to all but bribe some of these firms to stay. Case in point: Sears Holdings LLC. The initial incentives created at the time of the Hoffman Estates HQ expired a few years back and Sears was back at the trough asking for more and threatening to move. Somebody probably should have told them, "good riddance." Boeing's headquarters came at a high cost

Look, I've lived in Illinois since 1978 and still have a home in the Chicago suburbs. I want nothing more than for the state to do what it should be doing -- driving the Midwestern economy and leading the national economy. My children will be building their careers in the state and I want them to be successful. To do that requires a vibrant and exceptional economy and nothwithstanding the tech boom on the West Side of Chicago, the state's economy is not vibrant. Amazon reinforced that point this morning.

Interesting on point #1, didn't know. How does that compare to other similar Midwestern states? Also, what are your thoughts on the impact of Chicago vs. the rest of the state... Isn't the rest of the state the real boat anchor there, when it comes to the exodus of young people? What young person wants to move anywhere other than Chicago?

I have anecdotal thoughts from my own personal experience but just curious to hear from someone more informed.

Herman Cain

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2018, 04:52:15 PM »
1) Illinois is losing about 80,000 persons, net, annually due to outmigration at a time when the rest of the nation is growing, substantially.

2) Illinois likely will lose two seats in Congress after the 2020 census, probably to Texas and/or Florida.

3) Illinois has a state public pension deficit of between $150 billion and $200 billion and someone will have to pay it off. That excludes the City of Chicago. Business knows that and massive new investments in plant and equipment don't come.

4) It is notable that all of the investments of which you speak are "people" investments that can be moved on a dime (well, maybe a half dollar) to Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte or elsewhere depending on changes in the state's economic environment.

5) Even then, the state had to all but bribe some of these firms to stay. Case in point: Sears Holdings LLC. The initial incentives created at the time of the Hoffman Estates HQ expired a few years back and Sears was back at the trough asking for more and threatening to move. Somebody probably should have told them, "good riddance." Boeing's headquarters came at a high cost

Look, I've lived in Illinois since 1978 and still have a home in the Chicago suburbs. I want nothing more than for the state to do what it should be doing -- driving the Midwestern economy and leading the national economy. My children will be building their careers in the state and I want them to be successful. To do that requires a vibrant and exceptional economy and nothwithstanding the tech boom on the West Side of Chicago, the state's economy is not vibrant. Amazon reinforced that point this morning.
Illinois one of the Big Three Corrupt states along with New Jersey and Louisiana.

Things in Illinois are going to get worse for all the reasons you outlined. Chicago ( excluding south side)and North Shore are great but the headwinds are too much to overcome.

Business will no longer go along with status quo and people in basic industries will continue to exit when opportunities avail themselves.

The toll roads and parking are out of control which makes life expensive for the average Joe.
Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
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Pakuni

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2018, 05:03:05 PM »
1) Illinois is losing about 80,000 persons, net, annually due to outmigration at a time when the rest of the nation is growing, substantially.

2) Illinois likely will lose two seats in Congress after the 2020 census, probably to Texas and/or Florida.

3) Illinois has a state public pension deficit of between $150 billion and $200 billion and someone will have to pay it off. That excludes the City of Chicago. Business knows that and massive new investments in plant and equipment don't come.

4) It is notable that all of the investments of which you speak are "people" investments that can be moved on a dime (well, maybe a half dollar) to Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte or elsewhere depending on changes in the state's economic environment.

5) Even then, the state had to all but bribe some of these firms to stay. Case in point: Sears Holdings LLC. The initial incentives created at the time of the Hoffman Estates HQ expired a few years back and Sears was back at the trough asking for more and threatening to move. Somebody probably should have told them, "good riddance." Boeing's headquarters came at a high cost

Look, I've lived in Illinois since 1978 and still have a home in the Chicago suburbs. I want nothing more than for the state to do what it should be doing -- driving the Midwestern economy and leading the national economy. My children will be building their careers in the state and I want them to be successful. To do that requires a vibrant and exceptional economy and nothwithstanding the tech boom on the West Side of Chicago, the state's economy is not vibrant. Amazon reinforced that point this morning.

And yet despite all these ills, Chicago is consistently ranked at the top when it comes to places for a corporate HQ and continues to land the corporate investment you insist it needs to solve the state's poverty. That's the point you can't seem to get. Yes, Illinois has problems. And it's still not the wasteland you wish to pretend it is.

Fact check ....
- Illinois is not losing 80,000 residents a year. In fact, it loss less than half that in 2016 (the last available data).
- No, not every other state is growing. In fact, at least eight other states saw population declines in 2016.
- No, Illinois is not likely to lose two seats in Congress. Alabama, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and West Virginia also are projected to lose seats.

It's weird that you previously said states need to offer incentives to land corporate investment, recognize that companies like Amazon and Foxconn are receiving huge incentives elsewhere, and then argue that Illinois' offering of incentives is a sign of economic weakness.
Make up your mind, already.

And in a similarly contradictory stance, you argue that Amazon not choosing Chicago is a result of the state's lack of economic vibrancy.
Then what what does it say about the economies of Texas (Austin and Dallas rejected), Florida (Miami), Colorado (Denver), Georgia (Atlanta), Indiana (Indianapolis) and the 14 other states that didn't land Amazon?

(I can answer it for you ... a state's economic vibrancy had little to nothing to do with Amazon's decision. New York and Virginia aren't exactly the most thriving economies in the nation.

MUBurrow

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2018, 05:18:06 PM »
Illinois might be in for a world of hurt, but its certainly not on account of their unwillingness to win a race to the bottom for the right to hand Amazon free money.

warriorchick

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2018, 05:49:45 PM »
What young person wants to move anywhere other than Chicago?


Both of my kids grew up in the greater Chicago area, and both wanted to stay in Milwaukee after graduation. My daughter managed to do it; my son couldn't for career reasons and is moving to the Left Coast.

My daughter loves the fact that her apartment is half of what it would cost in a similar Chicago neighborhood. She can get anywhere she wants in less than a half hour, and she has easy access to great restaurants, cultural events and pro sports. 

Oh, yeah, and Marquette basketball.
Have some patience, FFS.

jesmu84

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2018, 05:58:37 PM »
Both of my kids grew up in the greater Chicago area, and both wanted to stay in Milwaukee after graduation. My daughter managed to do it; my son couldn't for career reasons and is moving to the Left Coast.

My daughter loves the fact that her apartment is half of what it would cost in a similar Chicago neighborhood. She can get anywhere she wants in less than a half hour, and she has easy access to great restaurants, cultural events and pro sports. 

Oh, yeah, and Marquette basketball.

After Marquette, I lived/worked in chicago for 8 years. I then went to grad school in Indy and have stayed since for all the reasons stated above.

jesmu84

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Re: Y’all got Bezos’ed
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2018, 06:01:21 PM »
Illinois one of the Big Three Corrupt states along with New Jersey and Louisiana.

Things in Illinois are going to get worse for all the reasons you outlined. Chicago ( excluding south side)and North Shore are great but the headwinds are too much to overcome.

Business will no longer go along with status quo and people in basic industries will continue to exit when opportunities avail themselves.

The toll roads and parking are out of control which makes life expensive for the average Joe.

You know what else is tough for average Joe? Taking away their retirement (pensions)

 

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