collapse

* Recent Posts

2024 Transfer Portal by tower912
[Today at 03:09:39 PM]


Where is Marquette? by Uncle Rico
[Today at 03:05:12 PM]


2024 NCAA Tournament Thread by tower912
[Today at 02:57:23 PM]


10 years after “Done Deal” … It’s Happening! by Uncle Rico
[Today at 02:48:12 PM]


Sweet 16 presser by tower912
[Today at 02:40:05 PM]


2024 Coaching Carousel by TAMU, Knower of Ball
[Today at 02:24:16 PM]


Dallas bars tonite by Jay Bee
[Today at 02:05:40 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!


Author Topic: NBA Thread 2019-20  (Read 219539 times)

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6045
  • Hall of Fame Hugger
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1025 on: November 26, 2019, 12:14:19 AM »
All this.
The notion that these guys became the best players in the world while also being lazy is beyond dumb.
If they lacked desire, work ethic and the necessity attitude, they wouldn't be where they are today.

Lots of false arguments here.  You can be one of the best players in the world and take plays off or even neglect an aspect of your game.  Carmelo Anthony ring a bell?  Or in some cases just not be very good at one side of it...Andrew Rowsey comes to mind at MU.  Not sure why you are making this argument.  Again, why are these high profile players making this statement about lack of defense and the NBA not emphasizing it?  As Green stated, they know what the league wants and where the emphasis is...his words...so they can work very hard at the offensive game and not need to put full effort in the defensive side...both can be true and to believe Green and Irving, that seems to be the case.  Is Green not someone who seems to speak his mind?  How about Irving? 

« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 12:26:20 AM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Uncle Rico

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9605
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1026 on: November 26, 2019, 07:32:29 AM »
Lots of false arguments here.  You can be one of the best players in the world and take plays off or even neglect an aspect of your game.  Carmelo Anthony ring a bell?  Or in some cases just not be very good at one side of it...Andrew Rowsey comes to mind at MU.  Not sure why you are making this argument.  Again, why are these high profile players making this statement about lack of defense and the NBA not emphasizing it?  As Green stated, they know what the league wants and where the emphasis is...his words...so they can work very hard at the offensive game and not need to put full effort in the defensive side...both can be true and to believe Green and Irving, that seems to be the case.  Is Green not someone who seems to speak his mind?  How about Irving? 



College kids don’t play offense because coaches want defense or something.  I heard Tom Izzo say defense wins championships.  🙄
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1027 on: November 26, 2019, 07:55:02 AM »
"There's no defense in the NBA" has been something folks have been claiming, off and on, for as long as I've been watching NBA hoops.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1028 on: November 26, 2019, 09:31:30 AM »
Lots of false arguments here.  You can be one of the best players in the world and take plays off or even neglect an aspect of your game.  Carmelo Anthony ring a bell?  Or in some cases just not be very good at one side of it...Andrew Rowsey comes to mind at MU.  Not sure why you are making this argument.  Again, why are these high profile players making this statement about lack of defense and the NBA not emphasizing it?  As Green stated, they know what the league wants and where the emphasis is...his words...so they can work very hard at the offensive game and not need to put full effort in the defensive side...both can be true and to believe Green and Irving, that seems to be the case.  Is Green not someone who seems to speak his mind?  How about Irving? 



As you're wont to do, you're shifting goalposts again.
You started this by claiming "NBA defense is a joke" and that NBA players lack the effort, desire and attitude of college players.
That very bad, provably false argument has now changed into something entirely different, that "NBA rules favor offense" (like the rules in every other sport) and "some players aren't good on defense" (like the players in every other sport).

Should take this to mean that you admit you were wrong about NBA players' effort, desire and attitude?

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6045
  • Hall of Fame Hugger
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1029 on: November 26, 2019, 10:11:54 AM »
"There's no defense in the NBA" has been something folks have been claiming, off and on, for as long as I've been watching NBA hoops.

Then you didn’t watch the NBA during the 90’s when it was a brawl.


I’m enjoying Derrick Rose’s comments...”but for real, who really plays defense in the NBA?”

https://streamable.com/9iki8


Some guy named Wesley Matthews last year was asked...should see his response.  All these actual players saying the same thing about defense, offense is what NBA wants, defense discouraged or penalized, etc.  Must be a union thing that they all have the same talking points...LOL.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 10:14:30 AM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23348
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1030 on: November 26, 2019, 10:13:50 AM »
Dumb.  I remember the Bad Boys Pistons, the Bulls, the Knicks turning playoff games into first to 80 slogs.  Then, the NBA changed the rules and legislated that kind of physicality out of the game.   The simple fact is that the average and above NBA player is too talented to be guarded 1 on 1 in space without hand checking except by the exceptional defenders.
NBA players play defense.   Against the best in the world.   Without being permitted to be physical.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 10:48:01 AM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1031 on: November 26, 2019, 10:46:29 AM »
Dumb.  I remember the Bad Boys Pistons, the Bulls, the Knicks turning playoff games into firstrst to 80 slogs.  Then, the NBA changed the rules and legislated that kind of physicality out of the game.   The simple fact is that the average and above NBA player is too talented to be guarded 1 on 1 in space without hand checking except by the exceptional defenders.
NBA players play defense.   Against the best in the world.   Without being permitted to be physical.

Yep.

Then you didn’t watch the NBA during the 90’s when it was a brawl.

Not sure which "you" you're talking about. I didn't say it.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1032 on: November 26, 2019, 10:50:44 AM »
Then you didn’t watch the NBA during the 90’s when it was a brawl.

And also bad basketball.


Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10461
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1033 on: November 26, 2019, 06:00:57 PM »
And also bad basketball.

Seriously? Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, Ewing, Mullin, Drexler, Stockton, Malone, Olajuwon, Thomas, Miller, Robinson,  etc. the 90s were probably the deepest collection of all time players in their primes of any era. It wasn't as offensively pretty if that's what you mean by bad basketball because the rules were different.

Edit: Shaq reasonably belongs on that list before you start hitting the great but not all timers portion.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 06:08:15 PM by Galway Eagle »
Maigh Eo for Sam

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1034 on: November 26, 2019, 06:21:26 PM »
Seriously? Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, Ewing, Mullin, Drexler, Stockton, Malone, Olajuwon, Thomas, Miller, Robinson,  etc. the 90s were probably the deepest collection of all time players in their primes of any era. It wasn't as offensively pretty if that's what you mean by bad basketball because the rules were different.

Edit: Shaq reasonably belongs on that list before you start hitting the great but not all timers portion.

You answered your own question.
I didn't say bad basketball players. I said bad basketball. Slow pace, lots of fouls, ridiculous amount of hand-checking, etc.
I say all these as a Bulls fans who loved every moment of their dynasty. But man, how much more fund would Jordan, Pippen. etc., been if they didn't have to put up with muggings by the Pistons and Knicks?

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6045
  • Hall of Fame Hugger
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1035 on: November 26, 2019, 06:40:41 PM »
And also bad basketball.

I didn’t care for it either, but they did play defense then at a rate nowhere close to the level today.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 07:54:47 PM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6045
  • Hall of Fame Hugger
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1036 on: November 26, 2019, 06:44:04 PM »
As you're wont to do, you're shifting goalposts again.
You started this by claiming "NBA defense is a joke" and that NBA players lack the effort, desire and attitude of college players.
That very bad, provably false argument has now changed into something entirely different, that "NBA rules favor offense" (like the rules in every other sport) and "some players aren't good on defense" (like the players in every other sport).

Should take this to mean that you admit you were wrong about NBA players' effort, desire and attitude?

Nope

I am saying both.  Endless examples of guys literally not trying...low effort.  AND also, NBA rules and emphasis push offense, which in turn feeds part A again because why the need to try as hard on defense if the NBA is going to make it so difficult, rack up fouls for breathing on someone, etc.   Sorry, not demonstrably false....there is a reason why so many guys are saying things....different things...but all coming to the conclusion that defense is an after thought in the NBA currently.  Rudy Gay another one.  The quotes, videos, etc just keep on coming....I’m in a sharing mood....
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 07:55:27 PM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 11517
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1037 on: November 26, 2019, 06:53:07 PM »
I didn’t care for it either,  it they did play defense then at a rate nowhere close to the level today.

80% of that is because rules have changed. The other 20% is due to innovative offensive basketball. 0% due to change in player effort.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 11517
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1038 on: November 26, 2019, 06:55:17 PM »
Nope

I am saying both.  Endless examples of guys literally not trying...low effort.  AND also, NBA rules and emphasis push offense, which in turn feeds part A again because why the need to try as hard on defense if the NBA is going to make it so difficult, rack up fouls for breathing on someone, etc.   Aorry, not demonstrably false....there is a reason why so many guys are saying things....different things...but all coming to the conclusion that defense is an after thought in the NBA currently.  Rudy Gay another one.  The quotes, videos, etc just keep on coming....I’m in a sharing mood....

Former players saying current players aren’t doing the right things are worn and tired...and largely inaccurate.

So provide all the quotes you want. It doesn’t prove anything.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1039 on: November 26, 2019, 07:49:34 PM »
Former players saying current players aren’t doing the right things are worn and tired...and largely inaccurate.

So provide all the quotes you want. It doesn’t prove anything.

Come on, man. ALL former players and/or older players always played killer defense every second they were on the court. Barkley, Dirk, Iceman, Pistol Pete ... they never took a single defensive possession off.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6045
  • Hall of Fame Hugger
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1040 on: November 26, 2019, 07:59:22 PM »
80% of that is because rules have changed. The other 20% is due to innovative offensive basketball. 0% due to change in player effort.

0%...LOL. 


Kyrie Irving didn’t say anything about effort...he said, “There’s no defense. There’s just none. We got into a Utah-Boston game and it’s [98-86] and you can see the difference in effort in every single night, which I get from an NBA player’s standpoint, the amount of games we play, but sometimes you have to make guys miss.“

Lebron James was destroyed here locally for his “lack of effort defensively” with the Lakers.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 09:56:04 AM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

reinko

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2696
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1041 on: November 26, 2019, 09:01:09 PM »
Seriously? Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, Ewing, Mullin, Drexler, Stockton, Malone, Olajuwon, Thomas, Miller, Robinson,  etc. the 90s were probably the deepest collection of all time players in their primes of any era. It wasn't as offensively pretty if that's what you mean by bad basketball because the rules were different.

Edit: Shaq reasonably belongs on that list before you start hitting the great but not all timers portion.

Lol




MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1042 on: November 26, 2019, 09:26:57 PM »
0%...LOL. 


Kyrie Irving didn’t say anything about effort...he said, “There’s no defense. There’s just none. We got into a Utah-Boston game and it’s [98-86] and you can see the difference in effort in every single night, which I get from an NBA player’s standpoint, the amount of games we play, but sometimes you have to make guys miss.“

Lebron James was destroyed here locally for his “lack of effort defensively” with the Lakers.

Wait ... I thought it wasn't about "effort." Which is it?
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 11517
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1043 on: November 27, 2019, 05:39:49 AM »
Seriously? Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, Ewing, Mullin, Drexler, Stockton, Malone, Olajuwon, Thomas, Miller, Robinson,  etc. the 90s were probably the deepest collection of all time players in their primes of any era. It wasn't as offensively pretty if that's what you mean by bad basketball because the rules were different.

Edit: Shaq reasonably belongs on that list before you start hitting the great but not all timers portion.

No the basketball sucked. Little ball movement. Isolation ball dominated. Defensive mugging allowed.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

JWags85

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2978
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1044 on: November 27, 2019, 09:30:34 AM »
0%...LOL. 


Kyrie Irving didn’t say anything about effort...he said, “There’s no defense. There’s just none. We got into a Utah-Boston game and it’s [98-86] and you can see the difference in effort in every single night, which I get from an NBA player’s standpoint, the amount of games we play, but sometimes you have to make guys miss.“

Lebron James was destroyed here locally for his “lack of effort defensively” with the Lakers.

Don't misconstrue what I said for your BS narrative.  I said Lebron James, he of chasedown block fame and 5x Defensive First Team, didn't try on defense last year cause his team sucked, he was pouting, and he didn't like the squad.  Of course you use that to bang the dumb drum of no effort and no defense.  Find a quote thats not pissed off at the end of a game and stop cherry picking deceiving material.  But you can't, cause thats your game.  Might want to name drop an NBA talent you had a meeting with who supports your point, those are always fun!

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6045
  • Hall of Fame Hugger
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1045 on: November 27, 2019, 09:55:35 AM »
Wait ... I thought it wasn't about "effort." Which is it?

I’ll put the first part in teal for clarity
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6045
  • Hall of Fame Hugger
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1046 on: November 27, 2019, 10:02:27 AM »
Don't misconstrue what I said for your BS narrative.  I said Lebron James, he of chasedown block fame and 5x Defensive First Team, didn't try on defense last year cause his team sucked, he was pouting, and he didn't like the squad.  Of course you use that to bang the dumb drum of no effort and no defense.  Find a quote thats not pissed off at the end of a game and stop cherry picking deceiving material.  But you can't, cause thats your game.  Might want to name drop an NBA talent you had a meeting with who supports your point, those are always fun!

I see, quotes by nba players that don’t fit your point of view do not count or have a * around them because they are said at the end of a game (Draymond Green’s wasn’t at the end of a game nor was Wesley Matthews)...got it.   Classic.   So strange that so many guys come to the same conclusion...weird.  I didn’t even bother posting quotes from GM’s, several coaches and other players saying the same things.

I think the most fun I have is with this logical fallacy...you know the one...the offensive skills and athleticism is so great today that it over power the defensive “effort”.  Think about that for a second.  Apparently all that great athleticism of today doesn’t also benefit defense?  It’s a one way street?  Lol. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 11517
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1047 on: November 27, 2019, 11:04:52 AM »
I see, quotes by nba players that don’t fit your point of view do not count or have a * around them because they are said at the end of a game (Draymond Green’s wasn’t at the end of a game nor was Wesley Matthews)...got it.   Classic.   So strange that so many guys come to the same conclusion...weird.  I didn’t even bother posting quotes from GM’s, several coaches and other players saying the same things.

I think the most fun I have is with this logical fallacy...you know the one...the offensive skills and athleticism is so great today that it over power the defensive “effort”.  Think about that for a second.  Apparently all that great athleticism of today doesn’t also benefit defense?  It’s a one way street?  Lol. 

I’m trying to figure out if you are actually this dumb or just playing dumb. What players are allowed to do on defense has changed. This has been explained multiple times here.

But you’ll continue with the narrative come hell or high water because that’s what you do. It’s the only thing you do here. Antagonize.

So congrats on that.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

MUBurrow

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1392
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1048 on: November 27, 2019, 11:18:02 AM »
No the basketball sucked. Little ball movement. Isolation ball dominated. Defensive mugging allowed.

Just chiming in to preemptively and gratuitously defend The Dream. Dude would have been an all-timer if he had been shooting into a peach basket, guarding Kareem, playing against Magic and Bird, in the 90s, or today. He embarrassed young Shaq for years, and if he played today would be Joel Embiid-plus. Made it look pretty at a time when it all looked ugly.

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: NBA Thread 2019-20
« Reply #1049 on: November 27, 2019, 11:20:20 AM »
I think the most fun I have is with this logical fallacy...you know the one...the offensive skills and athleticism is so great today that it over power the defensive “effort”.  Think about that for a second.  Apparently all that great athleticism of today doesn’t also benefit defense?  It’s a one way street?  Lol.

The irony here is that you wrongly assert one thing as a logical fallacy while at the same time offering a logical fallacy.