[Paint Touches] Should Marquette Redshirt Somebody?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

https://painttouches.com/2018/10/07/should-marquette-redshirt-somebody/

Said I would write this article months ago but finally got around to it. I think there could be a lot of good reasons in the pro column for using a redshirt this season.

[brewcity77]

The process of elimination makes this article a tough one to write. Going in I thought Cain, Bailey, and Elliott were the only possibilities. Cain is one of the guys that most excites me for this season. I love the Mikal Bridges comparison and agree completely that of the guys we've seen, he has the highest NBA ceiling.

This is a well-reasoned article that comes to a tough conclusion. I do see a benefit to someone taking a redshirt. I'll be interested to see what they do. If Bailey is ready for 15+ mpg, I think this makes sense. We certainly won't go 12 deep of guys playing double-digit minutes. Of course, if Cain did redshirt, we would likely run into a similar problem in 2019-20 as we currently project to having 12 full scholarships and between projected stars (Howard, Hauser) and used redshirts (Cain, Anim, Hauser, McEwen, Eke, Morrow) wouldn't leave many candidates for redshirts (Akanno, Bailey, John, Elliott).

All in all, well-written.

[nyg]

Good read, thanks.

I don't see anyone redshirting, but if Bailey and Joey are as good as the pre-season analysis, some player's on-court time is about to decrease.  If they don't like it, someone will leave, happens every year.

As far as all this NBA discussion.  Many posters have stated:

Markus will get NBA shot.
Sam will be in NBA.
Recently its been Bailey, McEwen and now Cain.
Next will be Joey talk, he is the highest rated recruit of all. That would be six NBA prospects, MU should be a top ten team.

Who knows, but it is extremely early and let see how all this potential shakes out after the Indiana, Kansas, Louisville/Tenn and Kansas St. games go. 

[Marcus92]

Interesting and well-written article. But I don't see it for Jamal. Sacar was nowhere near as big of a contributor during his freshman season. He needed the work on his game. Jamal, meanwhile, stepped in and made an immediate impact.

From a physical standpoint, I'm not sure how big a difference redshirting this year would make. Strength training is already part of the team's regular season regimen. Sitting out on game day won't affect that. To use the Mikal Bridges example, Jamal could be at a similar point by his senior year of eligibility without a redshirt (since Mikal redshirted and declared for the NBA following his junior year).

I think it's more likely that 1) Ike sees a lot of time on the bench this season, both because of his ongoing back issues, and being behind Ed, Theo and Matt on the depth chart; and/or 2) Greg doesn't get as many minutes, for similar reasons.

That would leave us with a 10-man rotation, with Ike and Greg hopefully being available as needed in the case of illness (seems like several players get hit with the flu every year), injury (an area we've been exceptionally fortunate), specific matchups and, of course, conserving main rotation players during blowout wins. IMO, that's preferable to a redshirt right now.

[Galway Eagle]

I vote BB, just to tie the Otule record of oldest MU player ever.

[tower912]

What an amazing world we live in.   Redshirt someone because of a team that is too deep.   But I think you picked the wrong guy.   

Theo John.   

Matt Heldt, Ike Eke, Ed Morrow, and a plethora of 6'8 guys can man the middle.      Front lines of Joey/Sam/Morrow, Morrow/Brendan/Cain,  Ike/Sam/Cain, Heldt/Bailey/Joey, Heldt/Sam/Sacar (oh, wait, that was manageable last year).    Take Theo's 20+ mpg and spread it around among Ike, Bailey, Joey, and Morrow.     

Theo gets another year stronger and smoother.   No controversy about shoving the senior aside.   If Matt, Ike, or Ed get hurt, pull the redshirt.    Easy peasy. 

[GGGG]

Interesting and well-written article. But I don't see it for Jamal. Sacar was nowhere near as big of a contributor during his freshman season. He needed the work on his game. Jamal, meanwhile, stepped in and made an immediate impact.

From a physical standpoint, I'm not sure how big a difference redshirting this year would make. Strength training is already part of the team's regular season regimen. Sitting out on game day won't affect that. To use the Mikal Bridges example, Jamal could be at a similar point by his senior year of eligibility without a redshirt (since Mikal redshirted and declared for the NBA following his junior year).

I think it's more likely that 1) Ike sees a lot of time on the bench this season, both because of his ongoing back issues, and being behind Ed, Theo and Matt on the depth chart; and/or 2) Greg doesn't get as many minutes, for similar reasons.

That would leave us with a 10-man rotation, with Ike and Greg hopefully being available as needed in the case of illness (seems like several players get hit with the flu every year), injury (an area we've been exceptionally fortunate), specific matchups and, of course, conserving main rotation players during blowout wins. IMO, that's preferable to a redshirt right now.

Sacar was ahead of Jamal in the line up last year and likely will be this year as well.

[fjm]

What an amazing world we live in.   Redshirt someone because of a team that is too deep.   But I think you picked the wrong guy.   

Theo John.   

Matt Heldt, Ike Eke, Ed Morrow, and a plethora of 6'8 guys can man the middle.      Front lines of Joey/Sam/Morrow, Morrow/Brendan/Cain,  Ike/Sam/Cain, Heldt/Bailey/Joey, Heldt/Sam/Sacar (oh, wait, that was manageable last year).    Take Theo's 20+ mpg and spread it around among Ike, Bailey, Joey, and Morrow.     

Theo gets another year stronger and smoother.   No controversy about shoving the senior aside.   If Matt, Ike, or Ed get hurt, pull the redshirt.    Easy peasy.

Love Theo. Dude is a STUD.

BUT 100% agree. If someone, redshirt Theo. He is going to be amazing, but he’ll be amazing after Ed leaves.

[Marcus92]

Sacar was ahead of Jamal in the line up last year and likely will be this year as well.

True. But Jamal played in every game as a freshman, earning more than 17 mpg (7th most on the team). He even played alongside Sacar in several lineups. He's already one of our best shooters. He should be even more valuable to the team this season with a full year of experience under his belt.

That's a totally different situation than Sacar's. He only appeared in 17 games as a freshman, averaging less than 5 mpg. He simply wasn't ready to be a regular contributor yet. The redshirt year made total sense.

As long as Jamal is playing a significant role -- and I see no reason why he wouldn't -- whether or not he starts shouldn't matter that much. We'll see how the rotation and minutes shake out.

[Marcus92]

You could argue that Brendan is going to take minutes from Jamal, or possibly leapfrog him on the depth chart. It's possible. Brendan looked good in the open practice. He's long, athletic and has a nice shot. But that describes Jamal, as well. If you go by the official roster, Jamal has 5 pounds on him. And Brendan has yet to play a single minute in a college game.

I think there's room for Sacar, Jamal and Brendan in the rotation. We'll have to see.

[Herman Cain]

https://painttouches.com/2018/10/07/should-marquette-redshirt-somebody/

Said I would write this article months ago but finally got around to it. I think there could be a lot of good reasons in the pro column for using a redshirt this season.

I applaud the fact that you took the time to write this article . I think some things need to be pointed out . First , a  student athlete has 5 years to complete 4 seasons of eligibility. A waiver to this can be granted for injuries, under certain circumstances. Which is why Chris Otule was able to hang around for six seasons. These waivers are granted at the end of the career. I am not fully sure how Joey is going to be treated but a very good case could be made that last season he was injured and not able to paly, hence he could apply for a waiver at some point down the road. I am sure the medical staff has this documented. Ike was clearly injured so he will likely be able to get a waiver down the road as well.

So , if there is anyone who should be sitting out and not using a season of eligibility it should be Ike. Ike did not gain the benefit intended last year, because he had the injury so soon after he elected to sit the year out. So my take is have him sit this year out and really get up to speed. 

Cain had a very solid year last year and has made great strides to go to the next level. He is ready to contribute now .  I think it would be wise to ease Sam back in from the injury and allow Jamal to soak a lot of those extra minutes up. Jamal will benefit  more from game experience at this point as his tools are all there. As you point out he needs to be able to relax and have confidence and a player can only get that  confidence from actually  playing.

My general take is the rotation will be similar to the 2016-17 team. The guys who play the best in practice will start. Then there will be a 9-10 man rotation with guys coming in at the TV break and players who have a hot hand staying in for longer stretches. Ultimately leading to the best 5 for any one particular game in at the end. There are always nagging injuries so I think everyone can be happy under that scenario and if Ike sat out it would all work out.

[GGGG]

I'm pretty certain that Ike wouldn't be eligible for a sixth year if he takes his "regular redshirt" after a season in which he medically cannot play.  I think those situations have to be reversed.  Now, if he is still struggling with his back, then yeah - he should sit this year and will likely get a sixth.

[WarriorFan]

Interesting discussion.

I immediately thought Theo is the best candidate because of the quantity of good Bigs and because he could really develop into a beast in 5 years.
Jamal in my view is too ready now... needs and deserves minutes
Ike - if his back doesn't improve - could end up being a wasted scholarship or a guy who's happy to hang on for some PT in his 5th year.
Sam - if he's not going to be 100% by the Badger game, should consider it.

My question, however, is that for cases like Theo or Sam, (assuming no early departure for NBA) wouldn't this make it possible or even likely they could grad-transfer?

[SaveOD238]

These things find a way of working themselves out.  Maybe someone will get hurt (I hope not).  If someone is disappointed with their playing time, they'll leave. 

[DCHoopster]

Interesting discussion.

I immediately thought Theo is the best candidate because of the quantity of good Bigs and because he could really develop into a beast in 5 years.
Jamal in my view is too ready now... needs and deserves minutes
Ike - if his back doesn't improve - could end up being a wasted scholarship or a guy who's happy to hang on for some PT in his 5th year.
Sam - if he's not going to be 100% by the Badger game, should consider it.

My question, however, is that for cases like Theo or Sam, (assuming no early departure for NBA) wouldn't this make it possible or even likely they could grad-transfer?

Theo looked much improve in the scrimmage.  Looks like he spent a year in the weight room scalping his body.  Looked much more coordinated from last year and
confident.  He is the last guy I would red-shirt.  You play with 11, and see what happens.  I would say more that Sacar transfers as a grad senior next year,  that
is possible.  Or you win big and everybody is happy. 

Chartouny and Howard might leave at end of year,   Morrow, Sam, Joey, Theo, Cain, Bailey are fighting for time upfront, McEven, Elliott, Akeeno backcourt.  Eke again
will not see the court, If for some reason Anim and Howard leave MU is short handed next year with 10 players.  So try and keep them all happy.

[GGGG]

I have zero idea why, in a season with such promise, that we would talk about redshirting ANY possible contributor.  People are just going to deal with less playing time. 

And I doubt Sacar would grad transfer.  But if he does, it likely means some people REALLY stepped up.

[MU82]

TAMU, I enjoyed reading the article and I totally understand your thought process.

That said, I wouldn't redshirt Cain, whom I believe can be a valuable contributor to a second-weekend NCAA tourney team. As some of our fellow Scoopers have opined, maybe Theo makes the most sense, but I wouldn't redshirt him, either. Indeed, I wouldn't redshirt any of our Warriors.

Let the best 8-10 players play. Let the 2-4 others support them in games and practices. If one or two of the others choose to leave, they choose to leave. That's life in the big city.

That said, if I'm Wojo, and if Cain or Theo or Elliott came to me and offered to redshirt, I would seriously consider redshirting them. I'm pretty doubtful that would happen, though.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

No.

Too many players recovering from injuries.  We don't know how many minutes Sam and Joey can handle early in the season so I think we need Cain.

Elliott is needed for guard depth from a numbers perspective.  What if Chartouney tweaks an ankle and is out 2 weeks? 

I think we need John, too.  Eke is raw and who knows how his back holds up.  Joey Hauser can play some 5 depending on matchups but will that work in BE or leave our interior defense lacking?  Heldt is limited athletically.  John gives valuable depth, especially in case of injuries or foul trouble.

I say let the season play out.  Between injuries,  foul trouble,  and the competition for minutes,  things will work themselves out.  I anticipate there will be one or two tranfers before next season because there always are.  But let's go all in this season and worry about next year when the time comes.

[MU82]

I say let the season play out.  Between injuries,  foul trouble,  and the competition for minutes,  things will work themselves out.  I anticipate there will be one or two tranfers before next season because there always are.  But let's go all in this season and worry about next year when the time comes.

This.

I liked the rest of your take too, LH, but especially this.

I do realize that worrying about stuff we can't control is pretty much a Scooper's "job," though!

[muwarrior69]

If any of our players redshirt does that mean they are transferring to UW?

[tower912]

For the record, I do not want think any MU players should redshirt this year.   Pressure full court and shuttle them in and out.    I arrived at Theo not because I think he won't contribute this year.   Honestly, I think there is a good chance he starts at the 5 this year.  But picture Theo a year from now if he took a year off an did nothing but work on his ball handling and his offense out to 18 feet.   As big and strong and athletic as he is, the market in the NBA for 6'9 players with little to no perimeter skills is limited.     A year working on his ballhandling and jumpshot gives him a better chance to play for money after he leaves MU. 

[Loose Cannon]

All things considered, this is a great situation to have and I hope it continues.

[skianth16]

I think Jamal as a redshirt option makes a lot of sense. We have 4 other options at the wing - Sam, Sacar, Brendan, and Joey - and these guys are all able to cover another position as well, although Brendan is a bit of a question mark. Jamal finished the year strong, helping to fill minutes that Cheatham was expected to fill, but he still has plenty of room to develop. Plus, I'm guessing he'll have a hard time getting to the rim this year without Rowsey on the perimeter to force defenses into spreading out.

I also think there's a case for Greg and Theo to be in the reshirt conversation. We have plenty of depth at the 4/5, and even though Theo improved by leaps and bounds last year, he could benefit from taking a year to improve his fundamentals and basketball IQ. Greg might be needed to provide depth at G, but we could also rely on Sam or Sacar to help fill that void if there are injuries to JC or Markus.

Given the minutes that all three of these guys played last year, I worry there might be another midseason transfer if no one redshirts. There are a few guys who may see there mpg fall by 5-10minutes, and that can create problems at times.

[MU82]

I worry there might be another midseason transfer if no one redshirts.

I don't worry about this at all. If it happens, it happens.

[Seashells]

Regarding the comment about Eke manning the middle to facilitate redshirting Theo, I'm not so sure Eke will be a banger.  His thighs have the diameter of my thumb...