Lawyer Help - Car Contract Question

[4everwarriors]

Little known fact, car dealerships don't sell the vehicle unless they get their number.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I'm still a believer in taking the signed purchase agreement to a competing dealer (new cars only of course). You need an easy out in the purchase agreement but even though I'm nearing 60 I still tell them I need my father's approval because he's paying for it (I wish!). Saved us close to $2000 over the signed agreement the last time.

[jsglow]

And just to follow up on my earlier comments.  We were at a bit of a disadvantage.  This was the ONE car within a 100 mile radius that fit our exact criterion.  It's why we drove all the way to Milwaukee.  So we did sort of have to 'take their crap' up to a certain point.  Had we had attractive options, we absolutely would have walked.

Thanks goodness it's been a good car for us.

And I will add this just in case a particular guy is your relative or something.  The Parts guy there was great.  I ordered new floor mats from him as well as a second key fob (because originally we only had one).  I learned that my local dealership was going to have to charge me a considerable amount to activate it.  (I get it.  Nothing is for free.)  My next trip to MKE the Darrow Parts guy did that for nothing because "all cars come with two keys and we're sorry that yours didn't".

[Lighthouse 84]

Is there anything on your contract that uses any form of the words “conditional” “contingent” “provisional” preliminary” or similar terminology near the APR or other financing terms?  If so, you’re going to lose most of your leverage. 

This is where they try to claim they have you.  Buried in the second or third page of the retail installment agreement you'll probably find language like this and they will claim that the sale wasn't truly final.  But as mentioned, push back, threaten going to the attorney general, negative publicity to them, give the car back in exchange for a full refund, etc. and you'll probably be successful.

I'm still a believer in taking the signed purchase agreement to a competing dealer (new cars only of course). You need an easy out in the purchase agreement but even though I'm nearing 60 I still tell them I need my father's approval because he's paying for it (I wish!). Saved us close to $2000 over the signed agreement the last time.

My Dad used to send a fax to four local (within 30 miles) Honda dealers, telling them the exact model, color, options, etc. and for them to each fax him back their best out the door price.  Lots of differences in each dealer's price.

[Chili]

I'm not defending or advocating on behalf of car salesfolk here, but showing you around the car is really more of a "new" car thing.  Car salesfolk typically haven't a clue about the functionality of used cars unless it's the same make as the dealer (e.g. buying a used Honda at the Honda dealer).  That said, it is customary to not give the keys to the customer and direct them to where it's parked somewhere in the lot.

Unfortunately, the extended warranty sale is way too profitable for dealers, especially used car dealers (who mostly sell third-party warranties that exclude half of the things that could go wrong with a used vehicle), to see that go away.  And the "stall and delay" tactic is way too overused, but it works... just like a casino, one of the golden rules of car sales is that the longer you keep the customer on the sales floor, the more profitable they become.

With the caveat that this works much better for new cars than used, as I posted in another thread buried in the Superbar somewhere, make the dealers work for your business... fax or email RFP's to as many dealers as you can and force them to respond in writing on your terms.  Be very specific with what you're looking for, and always ask for the "out the door" price, which is understood to be all-inclusive of hidden charges, fees, etc.  Half of the dealers you contact won't bother to respond... don't even think of trying them back, but the ones who do respond, those are the ones who want your business and are most likely to provide a pleasant buying experience.  I took 3 or 4 offers into my local Subaru dealer for a new Outback (factory order) and told them I had 3 or 4 offers from other dealers, and guess what, without me disclosing the quotes I had in hand, the salesperson beat my best quote by a few hundred dollars.

Another little known secret about car dealers, new and used.... the "floor" sales team earns a commission based on price you pay, but "internet" sales team earns commission based on volume.  Both teams usually have the same minimum price/markup that the dealer sets for the vehicle, so your chances of getting the best price - unless the floor salesperson is a friend or family member - almost always is going to be with the internet team.  Even if you like dealing with someone in-person, check the price for the vehicle on the internet (like Glow did) before heading to the dealer and then look at the sticker on the vehicle... more likely than not, the sticker price is always going to be a couple thousand heavier than the internet price.

I used your email strategy for my last car purchase 2 years ago. I had a unique set of constraints as I am eligible for GM Family pricing since 1/2 of my wife's family all work for GM. Sent out my requests and heard back from about 2/3 of the dealers. Of those, 1/2 would only talk to me in person and wouldn't give me a price so I ruled them out. Ended up with one dealership who beat every price by $80/mo on a lease. Had one dealer quip "I have no idea how they're making any money". Either way, I will be using the technique again when get our next vehicle in a year. Worked great.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

I sell new Buick and GMC, with about 60% of our sales coming from pre-owned (trade-ins, lease returns, few rentals, etc).

I know many/most people dread coming into a car dealership; I often make the equation to customers that my Dad was a dentist, and "nobody wanted to see him at work, either."  That said, I like to think, (and my CSI numbers back me up), the VAST majority of my customer have a pleasant experience.

I started selling cars when I was 36.  I taught high school English for 15 years, the last five at a Catholic school in Elmhurst, IL (where we live, and my wife-who-I-met-at-Marquette was raised).  We had our third kid and I couldn't afford working for Rome anymore, so I started selling at my wife's uncle's dealership (2 miles from my house).

There are no requirements for being a car salesman, so well over 50% of them are terrible, (say a dealership has a staff of 10 salesman.. 4 desks are perpetually "new guys," two guys are very, very old, two guys are average, and two are very good salesmen).

Being a good car salesman is not easy-- which means there are not many out there, but if you find on-- you can have a valuable relationship for a long, long time.  I sell a lot of vehicles to people I know from the school and town and we'll always cut profit, and in turn, my commission, to gain continued referrals and service customers.  I also sell a lot of "fresh ups" whom I've never met before who become very strong referrals and seem sincerely happy to see me when they are in for an oil change.

I work a ton, (drastically different hours than teaching), and am always available.  Tuesdays are my day off, and I've texted two customers who have already purchased this morning.  I have strong product knowledge, including pre-owned; (I have two Masters and spend all my time in cars, together we can figure out how to pair the phone in your Honda Odyssey). 

I can answer questions about leasing vs. purchasing and new vs. Certified.  I can help you decide whether or not you need a third row or AWD and make you realize that color doesn't really matter.  I'll give you a fair deal and can hold a conversation about your vacation to New Buffalo while we're waiting for the F & I guy.  I'm above-average at getting people to pay the most they will/ for my product/ while making them happy because I'm an above-average salesman.

I understand people don't like the car buying process, but I think most of that falls on the bad salesman and/or bad business manager you had.  I rarely have to "go to the tower" to ask a question because I know what I'm doing.  My goal is repeat customers, so I'm not hiding once you drive off the lot.

[jsglow]

I sell new Buick and GMC, with about 60% of our sales coming from pre-owned (trade-ins, lease returns, few rentals, etc).

I know many/most people dread coming into a car dealership; I often make the equation to customers that my Dad was a dentist, and "nobody wanted to see him at work, either."  That said, I like to think, (and my CSI numbers back me up), the VAST majority of my customer have a pleasant experience.

I started selling cars when I was 36.  I taught high school English for 15 years, the last five at a Catholic school in Elmhurst, IL (where we live, and my wife-who-I-met-at-Marquette was raised).  We had our third kid and I couldn't afford working for Rome anymore, so I started selling at my wife's uncle's dealership (2 miles from my house).

There are no requirements for being a car salesman, so well over 50% of them are terrible, (say a dealership has a staff of 10 salesman.. 4 desks are perpetually "new guys," two guys are very, very old, two guys are average, and two are very good salesmen).

Being a good car salesman is not easy-- which means there are not many out there, but if you find on-- you can have a valuable relationship for a long, long time.  I sell a lot of vehicles to people I know from the school and town and we'll always cut profit, and in turn, my commission, to gain continued referrals and service customers.  I also sell a lot of "fresh ups" whom I've never met before who become very strong referrals and seem sincerely happy to see me when they are in for an oil change.

I work a ton, (drastically different hours than teaching), and am always available.  Tuesdays are my day off, and I've texted two customers who have already purchased this morning.  I have strong product knowledge, including pre-owned; (I have two Masters and spend all my time in cars, together we can figure out how to pair the phone in your Honda Odyssey). 

I can answer questions about leasing vs. purchasing and new vs. Certified.  I can help you decide whether or not you need a third row or AWD and make you realize that color doesn't really matter.  I'll give you a fair deal and can hold a conversation about your vacation to New Buffalo while we're waiting for the F & I guy.  I'm above-average at getting people to pay the most they will/ for my product/ while making them happy because I'm an above-average salesman.

I understand people don't like the car buying process, but I think most of that falls on the bad salesman and/or bad business manager you had.  I rarely have to "go to the tower" to ask a question because I know what I'm doing.  My goal is repeat customers, so I'm not hiding once you drive off the lot.

Guys like you are a blessing.  We buy 'slightly' used (or sometimes more than slightly).  I'd love a chance to have you find the right vehicle for us (even if it takes some time) and get it on your lot if you don't have it already.  I'm not ever trying to get the last $350 out of you to prove I can get the best deal ever.  I just want a quality car that you'll stand behind as best as you can providing a quality experience. Shake on that and we've got a deal.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

IMO, most of the sales guys we've worked with have been great.  New guys, old guys, good guys like inferiority.

The deals usually go sour once the finance manager and/or the sales manager get involved.  They do more harm than good.

Funny enough, Russ Darrow in Madison was one of our better experiences, included the finance manager.

[Benny B]

IMO, most of the sales guys we've worked with have been great.  New guys, old guys, good guys like inferiority.

The deals usually go sour once the finance manager and/or the sales manager get involved.  They do more harm than good.

Funny enough, Russ Darrow in Madison was one of our better experiences, included the finance manager.

Everything went smoothly with the Outback until the finance guy wanted to sell the extended warranty.  Knowing full well that the mfg's extended warranty is also something you can shop around AFTER THE PURCHASE at ANY DEALER right up until the 3yr/36k warranty expires (on a new or certified car), I made it very clear up front that we weren't purchasing one that day... he went through his dog and pony show and it wasn't until I actually said "You're really starting to piss me off" that I finally got through to him.

As I said... these folks are trained well and know exactly what to say to everything you might throw at them.  Well, everything except "you're really starting to piss me off."

[4everwarriors]

'nother car shoppin' fact:
Deelerships dat sells upperend vehicles, treat ya bedder, hey?

[MU82]

I sell new Buick and GMC, with about 60% of our sales coming from pre-owned (trade-ins, lease returns, few rentals, etc).

I know many/most people dread coming into a car dealership; I often make the equation to customers that my Dad was a dentist, and "nobody wanted to see him at work, either."  That said, I like to think, (and my CSI numbers back me up), the VAST majority of my customer have a pleasant experience.

I started selling cars when I was 36.  I taught high school English for 15 years, the last five at a Catholic school in Elmhurst, IL (where we live, and my wife-who-I-met-at-Marquette was raised).  We had our third kid and I couldn't afford working for Rome anymore, so I started selling at my wife's uncle's dealership (2 miles from my house).

There are no requirements for being a car salesman, so well over 50% of them are terrible, (say a dealership has a staff of 10 salesman.. 4 desks are perpetually "new guys," two guys are very, very old, two guys are average, and two are very good salesmen).

Being a good car salesman is not easy-- which means there are not many out there, but if you find on-- you can have a valuable relationship for a long, long time.  I sell a lot of vehicles to people I know from the school and town and we'll always cut profit, and in turn, my commission, to gain continued referrals and service customers.  I also sell a lot of "fresh ups" whom I've never met before who become very strong referrals and seem sincerely happy to see me when they are in for an oil change.

I work a ton, (drastically different hours than teaching), and am always available.  Tuesdays are my day off, and I've texted two customers who have already purchased this morning.  I have strong product knowledge, including pre-owned; (I have two Masters and spend all my time in cars, together we can figure out how to pair the phone in your Honda Odyssey). 

I can answer questions about leasing vs. purchasing and new vs. Certified.  I can help you decide whether or not you need a third row or AWD and make you realize that color doesn't really matter.  I'll give you a fair deal and can hold a conversation about your vacation to New Buffalo while we're waiting for the F & I guy.  I'm above-average at getting people to pay the most they will/ for my product/ while making them happy because I'm an above-average salesman.

I understand people don't like the car buying process, but I think most of that falls on the bad salesman and/or bad business manager you had.  I rarely have to "go to the tower" to ask a question because I know what I'm doing.  My goal is repeat customers, so I'm not hiding once you drive off the lot.

You sound like a good guy who is good at what you do, and your dealership is lucky to have you.

I have bought a lot of cars, and you reinforced my general experience with your 4 desks are perpetually "new guys," two guys are very, very old, two guys are average, and two are very good salesmen line.

My only requirement is that they don't blatantly try to screw me.

I've had three instances where both the salesman and his direct supervisor agreed to sell me X car at X price only to have the big boss say something to the tune of, "Sorry, but we can't sell it at that price." I stood up to walk out each time. Twice, the guy relented and we made the deal. Once, the guy let me leave. Even the two deals I made, I didn't like how it went down and I never returned to that dealership.

The worst was the time I felt I was being screwed by the No. 2 guy at Grossinger Toyota in Chicago and so I went over his head and completed the deal. When I went to pick up the car a few weeks later (it had to be ordered), the gas tank was almost on E. After the salesman showed me around the car and went over all the features, I went to the No. 2 guy (the No. 1 was off that day) and asked politely for a full tank of gas. The guy, still pissed at me, told me it was company policy to not provide any gas. Rather than argue with him, I got into my new car, drove home, picked up the phone and called Toyota's U.S. corporate office. I insisted upon talking to a supervisor who could help me with a sales issue. I told him what happened. He assured me that Toyota's policy actually was the exact opposite -- that I should get a full tank of gas -- and that somebody would be back in touch with me within 24 hours. The next morning, Grossinger himself (or at least somebody from the family with that name, maybe there are several) called me, apologized profusely, assured me he would "talk to" the guy who tried to screw me, and asked if I'd be satisfied with a $50 gas card. (At that time, gas was about $1/gal, so obviously yes.) The card arrived in the mail 2 days later.

I know everybody has a car-buying story,  and that's not what this thread is supposed to be about, but that's one of my best. I have others. Won't bore everybody. My point is: I don't mind any dealer who doesn't try to hose me.

One other off-topic note given the talk about the Honda Hybrid ...

My wife has been driving a 2016 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid purchased new about 2 years ago. We absolutely love it. Smooth, quiet, roomy, 40+ mpg, 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty, 10-year drivetrain warranty, and considerably less expensive than Camry, Accord and Altima hybrids.

[jsglow]

82, your story is so familiar.  And it seems to be only with cars.  I can go buy a washer/dryer without the pain.  None of us are asking that salesmen shine our shoes or do deals at a loss but the lack of professional decency is just breathtaking. 

I spent an entire career negotiating extremely tough deals in turbulent and troubled times with businesses.  I am tough and always seek to protect my institution's interest, as is my job.  My profession requires to me to deliver harsh realities and orchestrate unpleasant outcomes.  I am bold and aggressive in my approach.  But I was never once dishonest or unfair. 

I once had a 7 figure borrower literally walk into my office in mid December and ask if he could buy his kid a Christmas present.  Slack jawed, I told him to get the hell out of my office, that I had kids too, and that we would pick our collective challenge up on January 2.  I respected the hell out of him for asking.  I'm sure that earned him something from me down the road.  Like 30 extra days to work on his problems.

 

[Marquette Gyros]

'nother car shoppin' fact:
Deelerships dat sells upperend vehicles, treat ya bedder, hey?

Plus one, but only if they represent the manufacturer...

If anyone wants a show of shady sales tactics, head on over to the places selling used BMWs, Mercedes, Maseratis in the Western burbs (not sure which one, Roosevelt makes everything sort of look the same).

Absolute high comedy thanks mostly to the sellers dangling expensive cars with long, messy Carfax stories and horrible financing terms to the public. Kind of fun to negotiate with them and back out at the last second - good practice for dealing with more reputable dealerships.

[dgies9156]

Car dealers, you gotta love 'em.

I had talked Ms. Dgies into a used vehicle, which turned out to be about a three-year old BMW 5-series. We first looked at the BMW dealer in Lake Bluff, IL, who advertised a price on the internet that was very attractive to us. I did a test-drive and had decided to buy the car. We called and said we were interested and were prepared to buy.

Guess what -- the advertised internet price was deemed to be a "mistake" and the actual price was $3,000 more. Needless to say, I'd rather walk that pay that dealer the additional money. It was bait and switch, especially since the net price had been posted for a couple of weeks.

We found the same car at the price we wanted at another Chicago-area BMW dealer. Even then, they were playing games with protection packages, super-extended warranties on tires (gee, don't the tire manufacturers have them) and on glass. Suffice to say, they were a bit startled when Ms. Dgies sneered and snarled at them when they told us an oil change was more than $400.00!

[Benny B]

Plus one, but only if they represent the manufacturer...

If anyone wants a show of shady sales tactics, head on over to the places selling used BMWs, Mercedes, Maseratis in the Western burbs (not sure which one, Roosevelt makes everything sort of look the same).

Absolute high comedy thanks mostly to the sellers dangling expensive cars with long, messy Carfax stories and horrible financing terms to the public. Kind of fun to negotiate with them and back out at the last second - good practice for dealing with more reputable dealerships.

In Lake County, our place is called M&I Motors on Skokums Hwy.  They be screwin’ a lotta people lately judging by the new showroom they built recently.  Either that or there’s a lot of dumbasses between Deerfield and North Chicago.

[MU82]

Car dealers, you gotta love 'em.

I had talked Ms. Dgies into a used vehicle, which turned out to be about a three-year old BMW 5-series. We first looked at the BMW dealer in Lake Bluff, IL, who advertised a price on the internet that was very attractive to us. I did a test-drive and had decided to buy the car. We called and said we were interested and were prepared to buy.

Guess what -- the advertised internet price was deemed to be a "mistake" and the actual price was $3,000 more. Needless to say, I'd rather walk that pay that dealer the additional money. It was bait and switch, especially since the net price had been posted for a couple of weeks.

We found the same car at the price we wanted at another Chicago-area BMW dealer. Even then, they were playing games with protection packages, super-extended warranties on tires (gee, don't the tire manufacturers have them) and on glass. Suffice to say, they were a bit startled when Ms. Dgies sneered and snarled at them when they told us an oil change was more than $400.00!

Had the exact same experience before we ended up buying the Sonata Hybrid I mentioned in my previous post!

Dealer advertised a sale price on their Web site for had to be 2-3 weeks. I went there to get it at that price, and was told it was a mistake. They wanted to charge me $2500 more. Obviously, I got up, walked out and never went back. Ended up buying a week later at a different dealer. I made sure I sent the GM at the first dealer a note telling him why I didn't buy from them, too.

82, your story is so familiar.  And it seems to be only with cars.  I can go buy a washer/dryer without the pain.  None of us are asking that salesmen shine our shoes or do deals at a loss but the lack of professional decency is just breathtaking. 

I spent an entire career negotiating extremely tough deals in turbulent and troubled times with businesses.  I am tough and always seek to protect my institution's interest, as is my job.  My profession requires to me to deliver harsh realities and orchestrate unpleasant outcomes.  I am bold and aggressive in my approach.  But I was never once dishonest or unfair. 

I once had a 7 figure borrower literally walk into my office in mid December and ask if he could buy his kid a Christmas present.  Slack jawed, I told him to get the hell out of my office, that I had kids too, and that we would pick our collective challenge up on January 2.  I respected the hell out of him for asking.  I'm sure that earned him something from me down the road.  Like 30 extra days to work on his problems.

 

Yeah, it's amazing how these places operate. Obviously, they are able to fleece enough people to make all the scumbaggery worth it.

With 20/20 hindsight, I know now that when I was younger and there was no interwebs in existence to do all the research, I got fleeced a few times.

Funny thing is, I do kinda enjoy the thrill of the chase. It's a sort of game in a weird way, and I do get some satisfaction when I think I at least come close to winning.

[Benny B]

Yeah, it's amazing how these places operate. Obviously, they are able to fleece enough people to make all the scumbaggery worth it.

Let's be clear that scum can only grow in favorable conditions... again, not defending the scumbags, but up to 49% of said scumbaggery is on the customers who cannot separate emotion from a sale transaction.  Even in an increasingly materialistic society, the human intellect is still able to distinguish between needs and wants as well as process a simple cost-benefit analysis; nevertheless, we justify the pursuit of wants by cloaking them behind a need, usually love or self-worth. 

Anytime my wife and I are shopping for a big-ticket item, house, car, vacation, etc... I tell her the same thing: Don't fall in love.  Once you become emotional, you might as well put on a shirt that says "SUCKER" across the front.  That doesn't mean end the pursuit, but if you want to be treated fairly, you need to be willing to walk away regardless of the situation.

Everyone has a first love... for many it was that boy or girl in high school.  Some had an air pump.  Eventually, ways parted (or an irreparable leak was sprung) and at the time each of us felt devastated, like there would never be anyone else... but just think about how things might be different if you married that person (or "person") because you thought he/she/it was the only one for you, and wisdom is found in stupidity.

If everyone could apply such "first love" logic to buying a car, the scumbag dealers wouldn't exist... the most successful salesfolk would be the ones who catered to the customer's needs, not the ones who were best at exploiting the system.

[MU82]

Let's be clear that scum can only grow in favorable conditions... again, not defending the scumbags, but up to 49% of said scumbaggery is on the customers who cannot separate emotion from a sale transaction.  Even in an increasingly materialistic society, the human intellect is still able to distinguish between needs and wants as well as process a simple cost-benefit analysis; nevertheless, we justify the pursuit of wants by cloaking them behind a need, usually love or self-worth. 

Anytime my wife and I are shopping for a big-ticket item, house, car, vacation, etc... I tell her the same thing: Don't fall in love.  Once you become emotional, you might as well put on a shirt that says "SUCKER" across the front.  That doesn't mean end the pursuit, but if you want to be treated fairly, you need to be willing to walk away regardless of the situation.

Everyone has a first love... for many it was that boy or girl in high school.  Some had an air pump.  Eventually, ways parted (or an irreparable leak was sprung) and at the time each of us felt devastated, like there would never be anyone else... but just think about how things might be different if you married that person (or "person") because you thought he/she/it was the only one for you, and wisdom is found in stupidity.

If everyone could apply such "first love" logic to buying a car, the scumbag dealers wouldn't exist... the most successful salesfolk would be the ones who catered to the customer's needs, not the ones who were best at exploiting the system.

Truer words have never been spoke.

I bet you miss the hell out of that air pump, though!

[Spotcheck Billy]

I remember a few decades back when some Chicago car dealers advertised too low to believe prices in newspapers, checking the fine print revealed the prices shown were half the actual price. Who would fall for that?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Don't just be prepared to walk away, be prepared to call the local TV station.   Know which one specializes in consumer issues and program their consumer hotline  into your phone.

Get a screen grab of the online car listing before you go to the dealer (or take a picture).  That will help the TV station verify your claim in case the dealer changes the online price.  It'll also help the TV station  so they can show the listed price. 

If the dealer pulls a bait and switch, ask to speak to the highest ranking manager on site, preferably the GM. Tell him, "I'm getting that price or calling Action 2 News!"

Walking away just means they are going to screw somebody else.  But a TV news story about them being a scummy car dealer is far more damaging to their bottom line than the $2,000 to $3,000 they let you save.

[Benny B]

I bet you miss the hell out of that air pump, though!

Damn straight.  Without the air pump, there was something paradoxical in that I was doing most of the blowing.

[dgies9156]

Favorite tales from the front:

1) Visited a car dealer once about a Lincoln Mercury vehicle. Spent time telling me about the car. Spent time telling Ms. Dgies about the make-up mirror. As if Ms. Dgies was going to make a major purchase based on the existence of a make-up mirror (LOL).

2) Went to a GM dealership in DuPage County, IL about a car. Liked one car, as did Ms. Dgies. Salesman spent time telling me all about the car and its features but absolutely ignored Ms. Dgies. Looked me in the eye but pretended she did not exist. At close of the presentation, he asked me, "so what do you think?" I looked him square in the eye and said, "it would be her car... she is making the decision!" Color ran out of the guy's face because he then knew his sexism meant he blew it big time.

3) About the same time, we looked at a Mitsubishi Eclipse. Chrysler offered the same car in their version. Lee Iaaccoa was screaming about how Mistubishi was getting $300 more per car than the same vehicle marketed by Chrysler. It was really simple why -- Mitsubishi had better dealers!

Final thought: Brother WI Inferiority Complex, you are what the sellers need. We had a daeler like that in our hometown. He sold Buicks and GMC and we ended up buying two Buicks from him (Enclave and  LaCrosse). Liked working with someone local who sold and serviced the car. Sadly, GM shut him down when they consolidated their dealer network.   

[jficke13]

I just went through the car-shopping nonsense last month and am gearing up to do it again because my wife's car is on its last legs.

The whole idea of there being a bunch of bad salespeople who turn over often seems to pan out. With the exception of one Nissan salesperson and the Toyota salesman that I ultimately bought from, there was a parade of incompetence I've never encountered before in any capacity.

I also ran into a lot of people who didn't seem all that interested in selling me a car. I inquired about a few, didn't get responses to emails, etc. I don't want to be called every fifteen minutes, but you'd think having a pulse would be part of the hiring test.

I did the Costco thing, did the Truecar thing, and threw everyone who responded into the ringer to see who would end up doing the best price. It worked fine, but ye deities what's with the transparent salesman playbook? The Can't Give You a Price Unless You Come In, the Delay, the Let Me Talk to the Manager, the Oh God You Don't Want GAP Insurance????

One manager person came over and tried to break down all the reasons why he couldn't do my price, one of which was "I have to pay the salesman's commission." I responded with "I'll give you free business advice, fire him because you're doing all the negotiation yourself. Looks like you've got a room full of people who don't serve a purpose if you're the only one who can make decisions."

It's the B.S. and the TRANSPARENT B.S. that everyone hates about car dealers.

List a price, sell it for that price. Run an ad like the old Dominoes ads where they were like "We know our pizza used to be bad, but it's good now." "Our salespeople used to be scoundrels, but now ..."

[warriorchick]

Favorite tales from the front:


2) Went to a GM dealership in DuPage County, IL about a car. Liked one car, as did Ms. Dgies. Salesman spent time telling me all about the car and its features but absolutely ignored Ms. Dgies. Looked me in the eye but pretended she did not exist. At close of the presentation, he asked me, "so what do you think?" I looked him square in the eye and said, "it would be her car... she is making the decision!" Color ran out of the guy's face because he then knew his sexism meant he blew it big time.

I can do you one better, Brother D, and you will appreciate this because it happened in Nashville.

A co-worker of mine in Milwaukee moved to Music City because her husband got transferred.  Soon after getting down there, she went shopping for a car.  She found a car that she liked, and was ready to make a deal with the salesperson.  He flat out refused to negotiate with her unless she came back with her husband.  Although she was wearing a wedding ring, she had not mentioned him at any prior point in the process.

Like Julia Roberts said in Pretty Woman,  "Big Mistake.  BIG Mistake".

She left, and a couple of days later, bought the same car from someone who believed womenfolk were able to make their own decisions.

[barfolomew]

I sell new Buick and GMC, with about 60% of our sales coming from pre-owned (trade-ins, lease returns, few rentals, etc).

Sounds like you may be talking about Haggerty Buick/GMC in Villa Park.
I had a very good experience there and do recommend them around town.

I also agree that word of mouth is as important (or more important) in car buying as almost any other industry.