NCAA recent investigations

[NCMUFan]

Perhaps it is because on a clear day, you can see the UNC campus from NC State?

Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but there's a reason why Duke, UNC and NC State have a mutual hatred of each other. They're all within about a 45 minute drive of each other. Kinda like putting Marquette, Notre Dame and Wisconsin between Kenosha and Waukesha. The real question is whether UNC hates NC State as much as NC State hates UNC?

In my church Sunday school class, the instructor knew I was a Marquette graduate.  He is a Wake Forest graduate.  Maybe to test my degree of fandom he asked me if I knew who Butch Lee was.  He was still happy Marquette took down UNC in the 1977 NCAA finals.  In North Carolina if you are a non-UNC graduate it is "ABC" - "Anybody but Carolina."

[cheebs09]

In my church Sunday school class, the instructor knew I was a Marquette graduate.  He is a Wake Forest graduate.  Maybe to test my degree of fandom he asked me is I knew who Butch Lee was.  He was still happy Marquette took down UNC in the 1977 NCAA finals.  In North Carolina if you are a non-UNC graduate it is "ABC" - "Anybody but Carolina."

Interesting. Is NCState the school of choice for non-alums? I know Duke doesn't have a big following.

[NCMUFan]

Interesting. Is NCState the school of choice for non-alums? I know Duke doesn't have a big following.

NC State is a large state school, many graduates. So, yes, I would say so.  My father in law and one brother in law are NC State grads.  A sister in law and brother in law are Wake Forest grads and one sister in law a UNC grad.  They are not diehard sports fans though.  My wife is a Davidson grad.

[StillAWarrior]

Interesting. Apparently I have no idea what the NCAA does. (Not sure they do either).

So, the NCAA has zero oversight to the "student" part of student athlete?

That's probably an over-statement.  The NCAA tries to make sure that the "student athlete" is as much of a "student" as the non-athlete.  They want to look for special treatment as compared to non-athletes.

They really don't want to get into determining if a class is sufficiently rigorous.  If the school is offering the class to all students, it's good enough.  Honestly, any other approach would lead to some interesting situations.  How would the NCAA deal with normal variations in the difficulty of majors or between schools.  A class that might be considered a blow-off at an elite academic school might be harder than most of the course offerings at Directional State U.  The NCAA isn't going to get involved in that.

[jesmu84]

That's probably an over-statement.  The NCAA tries to make sure that the "student athlete" is as much of a "student" as the non-athlete.  They want to look for special treatment as compared to non-athletes.

They really don't want to get into determining if a class is sufficiently rigorous.  If the school is offering the class to all students, it's good enough.  Honestly, any other approach would lead to some interesting situations.  How would the NCAA deal with normal variations in the difficulty of majors or between schools.  A class that might be considered a blow-off at an elite academic school might be harder than most of the course offerings at Directional State U.  The NCAA isn't going to get involved in that.

If your statement is true, then the NCAA should have looked into the classes that were only offered to athletes at the other schools that the UNC lawyers provided evidence of. Right?

[StillAWarrior]

If your statement is true, then the NCAA should have looked into the classes that were only offered to athletes at the other schools that the UNC lawyers provided evidence of. Right?

I would think so, yes.

[Cheeks]

If your statement is true, then the NCAA should have looked into the classes that were only offered to athletes at the other schools that the UNC lawyers provided evidence of. Right?

But that's the rub, the classes weren't offered to athletes only.  If they were, then there might be an argument here.  They were offered to everyone.

Unless I missed something, I thought none of the classes in question were open only to athletes.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

But that's the rub, the classes weren't offered to athletes only.  If they were, then there might be an argument here.  They were offered to everyone.

Unless I missed something, I thought none of the classes in question were open only to athletes.

jesmu is saying that UNC's lawyers showed examples of classes at other schools that were athlete only and asked why those weren't investigated.

[Cheeks]

jesmu is saying that UNC's lawyers showed examples of classes at other schools that were athlete only and asked why those weren't investigated.

Ah, got it.  Thanks


I have heard so often in the last few years complaints about the NCAA not coming down on UNC even thought they had no jurisdiction in the case.  I assume, incorrectly, that was still the situation.

I have a number of friends that work there.  They run very lean, the money goes back to the schools by and large.  They aren't equipped to be the cops people want them to be and that is partly by design of the member institutions.

[GGGG]

I have a number of friends that work there.  They run very lean, the money goes back to the schools by and large.  They aren't equipped to be the cops people want them to be and that is partly by design of the member institutions.

And they certainly don't have the ability or the time to judge the academic worthiness of classes taken by student athletes. 

[Cheeks]

And they certainly don't have the ability or the time to judge the academic worthiness of classes taken by student athletes.

Correct

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Bump.

Mizzou got hammered in comparison to North Carolina for essentially actually having academic standards for their athletes.

The NCAA never ceases to amaze.

[cheebs09]

Bump.

Mizzou got hammered in comparison to North Carolina for essentially actually having academic standards for their athletes.

The NCAA never ceases to amaze.

In this case it was an impermissible benefit that a student athlete received that a normal student didn't. This would be an athletic department issue.

In the other case, the university was offering bogus classes to everyone and it's a university issue.

UNC definitely benefitted from the technicality, but I do see a difference.

[Cheeks]

Bump.

Mizzou got hammered in comparison to North Carolina for essentially actually having academic standards for their athletes.

The NCAA never ceases to amaze.

Simply not the same comparison at all

[jesmu84]

In this case it was an impermissible benefit that a student athlete received that a normal student didn't. This would be an athletic department issue.

In the other case, the university was offering bogus classes to everyone and it's a university issue.

UNC definitely benefitted from the technicality, but I do see a difference.

Why hasn't the NCAA come down on the evidence presented in the UNC case regarding other schools and their athletes? That's what I don't understand

[jesmu84]

https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-investigation-underway-arizonas-sean-miller-faces-complicated-future-234415126.html

[texaswarrior74]

Why hasn't the NCAA come down on the evidence presented in the UNC case regarding other schools and their athletes? That's what I don't understand

Given that the list of schools was in double or triple digits (can't remember which) and included Stanford, Michigan, and other high profile programs it seems they didn't want to open that can of worms for fear of what else they might find.

In UNC's case, the former UNC chancellor essentially said "our books are open" in the very beginning and as a result UNC went through a seven plus year rectal probe that seriously hurt recruiting in both basketball and football since rival coaches were promising draconian consequences coming for them. After that painful and thorough examination they actually found no violations worthy of what the ABC crowd was hoping for. The classes weren't bogus or fake classes, they did require a lengthy research paper and were open to all students with more non athletes enrolled than athletes.

As this was going on, every other school had to feel if this is what being open and honest gets you, we will take our chances by saying "prove it."

UNC had the evidence that would/could implicate the other schools but would not allow their attorneys to put it into their official response to the NCAA allegations. I am sure they were holding it as a trump card if the commission went against the results of the THREE previous probes that found nothing. At the same time, UNC's attorneys anonymously dropped the info that they had in blogs and other public forums which they knew were being monitored by the NCAA as well as most other schools who were closely watching how things were playing out. It was a shrewd move by their legal team. The end result was the NCAA ruling that came out.

In all honesty the NCAA has much bigger fish to fry with regard to recruiting violations and pay to play. I don't think the NCAA investigation is anywhere near being over and given that the current witness has decided not to accept a plea deal.....get your popcorn ready.

[CTWarrior]

Given that the list of schools was in double or triple digits (can't remember which) and included Stanford, Michigan, and other high profile programs it seems they didn't want to open that can of worms for fear of what else they might find.

In UNC's case, the former UNC chancellor essentially said "our books are open" in the very beginning and as a result UNC went through a seven plus year rectal probe that seriously hurt recruiting in both basketball and football since rival coaches were promising draconian consequences coming for them. After that painful and thorough examination they actually found no violations worthy of what the ABC crowd was hoping for. The classes weren't bogus or fake classes, they did require a lengthy research paper and were open to all students with more non athletes enrolled than athletes.

As this was going on, every other school had to feel if this is what being open and honest gets you, we will take our chances by saying "prove it."

UNC had the evidence that would/could implicate the other schools but would not allow their attorneys to put it into their official response to the NCAA allegations. I am sure they were holding it as a trump card if the commission went against the results of the THREE previous probes that found nothing. At the same time, UNC's attorneys anonymously dropped the info that they had in blogs and other public forums which they knew were being monitored by the NCAA as well as most other schools who were closely watching how things were playing out. It was a shrewd move by their legal team. The end result was the NCAA ruling that came out.

In all honesty the NCAA has much bigger fish to fry with regard to recruiting violations and pay to play. I don't think the NCAA investigation is anywhere near being over and given that the current witness has decided not to accept a plea deal.....get your popcorn ready.

THis was the entirety of work done by a UNC basketball player in that so-called real class.  This was the entirety of his "lengthy research paper":

On the evening of December Rosa Parks decided that she was going to sit in the  white people section on the bus in Montgomery, Alabama. During this time blacks had to give up there seats to whites when more whites got on the bus. Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat. Her and the bus driver began to talk and the conversation went like this. "Let me have those front seats" said the driver. She didn't get up and told the driver that she was tired of giving her seat to white people. "I'm going to have you arrested," said the driver. "You may do that," Rosa Parks responded. Two white policemen came in and Rosa Parks asked them "why do you all push us around?" The police officer replied and said "I don't know, but the law is the law and you're under arrest.

He got an A- for the class.  Does that sound like a real college class to you?

[jesmu84]

Nice

https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/kansas-state-fans-made-it-rain-with-fake-100-adidasbill-self-bills-and-chanted-fuck-ku

[marqfan22]

#NicoMannion
#Decommit

[Ellenson Guerrero]

The one I really didn't like was the continuation on Ponds' and one. If Markus didn't get continuation in the first half, no way Ponds should have in the second.

This. That continuation play was a killer.

Props to Chartouny. I thought he was a difference maker on the defensive end in the second half. If this team is going to make a tourney run, we need him to be a major contributor.

[StillAWarrior]

THis was the entirety of work done by a UNC basketball player in that so-called real class.  This was the entirety of his "lengthy research paper":

On the evening of December Rosa Parks decided that she was going to sit in the  white people section on the bus in Montgomery, Alabama. During this time blacks had to give up there seats to whites when more whites got on the bus. Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat. Her and the bus driver began to talk and the conversation went like this. "Let me have those front seats" said the driver. She didn't get up and told the driver that she was tired of giving her seat to white people. "I'm going to have you arrested," said the driver. "You may do that," Rosa Parks responded. Two white policemen came in and Rosa Parks asked them "why do you all push us around?" The police officer replied and said "I don't know, but the law is the law and you're under arrest.

He got an A- for the class.  Does that sound like a real college class to you?

This is not a defense of UNC, but I think you're misinformed.  Obviously, it's not college level work, but that paragraph was not an essay from one of the "paper classes" and was not the entirety of the student's work that earned him an A- for the class.  And, according to the person who made it public (who was one of they key whistle blowers on the UNC scandal) it was a draft.  Even the person who made that document public doesn't know what other work the athlete did to "earn" that A-.  It probably doesn't help UNC's academic reputation to note that this was from a "real" class, not one of the "fake" classes that got so much attention.

Interestingly, it appears that the Rosa Parks "essay" also was blatantly plagiarized.  From Rosa Parks herself.  Another strike against UNC's academic reputation.

[Pakuni]

Former MU assistant...

@GoodmanHoops: Arizona assistant Mark Phelps has been placed on administrative leave by the school. Source close to situation told @WatchStadium they believe this is school building its case in potentially make a move with head coach Sean Miller as NCAA begins its investigation. https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1093330362934145024/photo/1

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Former MU assistant...

@GoodmanHoops: Arizona assistant Mark Phelps has been placed on administrative leave by the school. Source close to situation told @WatchStadium they believe this is school building its case in potentially make a move with head coach Sean Miller as NCAA begins its investigation. https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1093330362934145024/photo/1

Wasn't he one of our assistants at one point. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

Wasn't he one of our assistants at one point.