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Author Topic: NCAA recent investigations  (Read 70010 times)

jesmu84

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NCAA recent investigations
« on: August 30, 2018, 12:00:01 PM »
No punishment for UNC on their academic issues.

No punishment for Michigan State for Larry Nassar.

No punishment, yet, for anyone outside of Louisville/Pintino on the FBI investigation.

No punishment, yet, for OSU for Meyer.

What does it take to get punished these days? Is all the illegal stuff becoming the "norm" and the NCAA lets it go?

mu03eng

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2018, 12:11:07 PM »
No punishment for UNC on their academic issues.

No punishment for Michigan State for Larry Nassar.

No punishment, yet, for anyone outside of Louisville/Pintino on the FBI investigation.

No punishment, yet, for OSU for Meyer.

What does it take to get punished these days? Is all the illegal stuff becoming the "norm" and the NCAA lets it go?

They way overshot the mark on the PSU stuff and now they are very very reluctant to tread in the criminal space when it comes to their sports programs.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."


jesmu84

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2018, 12:19:52 PM »
They way overshot the mark on the PSU stuff and now they are very very reluctant to tread in the criminal space when it comes to their sports programs.

I just don't get how/why they bring a punishment for a kid getting some tickets to a game or having too much pasta, but harboring a serial rapist is nothing.

Benny B

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2018, 12:20:37 PM »
Personally, I think it's because there are too many lawyers on the NCAA infractions committee that the NCAA would prefer to simply let a case go rather than be slapped with a lawsuit for trying to enforce its own rules.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

mu03eng

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2018, 12:24:01 PM »
I just don't get how/why they bring a punishment for a kid getting some tickets to a game or having too much pasta, but harboring a serial rapist is nothing.

The distinction is (at least in the NCAA's mind) is that cultural/criminal is not their domain....things like eligibility and amateurism are. I'm not saying that's the way I'd suggest approaching it because I think the NCAA should be about shaping the whole person but that's not what their charter is. Further, the NCAA is not some oversight group, it is the inmates running the asylum they get their "power" and funding from the member institutions themselves so there is a hesitance to bite the hand that feeds you.
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jutaw22mu

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 12:33:58 PM »
No punishment for UNC on their academic issues.

No punishment for Michigan State for Larry Nassar.

No punishment, yet, for anyone outside of Louisville/Pintino on the FBI investigation.

No punishment, yet, for OSU for Meyer.

What does it take to get punished these days? Is all the illegal stuff becoming the "norm" and the NCAA lets it go?

All of those investigations should have brought serious punishments except the Urban Meyer one.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2018, 12:35:32 PM »
All of those investigations should have brought serious punishments except the Urban Meyer one.

Why not the Urban Meyer one?
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And the wisdom to know the difference.

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Warrior2008

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2018, 12:39:23 PM »
The NCAA has been a giant joke for awhile now.  For one, they know punishing member bodies, particularly the successful money making ones, takes dollars away from them in the end.  When people turn on the NCAA tournament in March, more eyeballs are on tv sets when the bigger schools are competing.  Its just the reality.  So they are willing to bend over backwards to clear those schools(see UNC) so that when tv contracts are up, they can point to higher viewership. Secondly, there is always the implied threat from the bigger schools to just leave the NCAA entirely and form their own tournament if the NCAA tries to get too aggressive.  The bigger schools have already done that with football.

In reality, they try to do what they can by punishing some athletes here or there to show the "relevance". The days of them being an effective form of governance are over and at this point, they're just try to hang on for dear life.

As a side note, Michigan State should be more worried the state special prosecutor and the Feds looking into Larry Nassar than the toothless NCAA.
 

GooooMarquette

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2018, 12:49:24 PM »
Time to issue the death penalty to some school like Prairie View A&M for giving some kid one too many Cokes on a visit...so the NCAA can show it means business!

GGGG

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2018, 12:54:38 PM »
All of those investigations should have brought serious punishments except the Urban Meyer one.


On what basis?  The NCAA overplayed their hand with Penn State, essentially penalizing them for something that wasn't in violation of their rules.  They would have to do the same in all of those cases except the Louisville one.  (With that one, the NCAA is clearly waiting for the FBI to finish their work.  It's not closed.)

Also just remember that the power schools really don't want the NCAA to be that powerful.  It is a membership organization.

jutaw22mu

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2018, 01:07:55 PM »

On what basis?  The NCAA overplayed their hand with Penn State, essentially penalizing them for something that wasn't in violation of their rules.  They would have to do the same in all of those cases except the Louisville one.  (With that one, the NCAA is clearly waiting for the FBI to finish their work.  It's not closed.)

Also just remember that the power schools really don't want the NCAA to be that powerful.  It is a membership organization.

You are right, but come on, how does MSU get by unscathed when girls were being raped and molested on their campus by an employee?!? 

jutaw22mu

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2018, 01:10:46 PM »
Why not the Urban Meyer one?

I think if we are going to hold Urbie accountable for what an employee does after hours, then everyone should be held accountable..  So whoever was the coach, GM, owner of the Ravens when Ray Rice beat up his wife on camera in the elevator should also be held accountable.

GGGG

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2018, 01:32:13 PM »
You are right, but come on, how does MSU get by unscathed when girls were being raped and molested on their campus by an employee?!? 


I mean, they are paying victims a half a billion dollars.  So it's hard for me to say they are "unscathed."

I also think accreditation agencies need to look harder at this stuff, especially when student safety is at issue.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2018, 01:52:01 PM »
So what's the FBI waiting for? They made their big splash announcement at the beginning of the season last year.  Will they repeat that splash this year now that they had time to offer plea deals for the first round of defendants to cooperate?

jesmu84

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2018, 02:56:46 PM »
The distinction is (at least in the NCAA's mind) is that cultural/criminal is not their domain....things like eligibility and amateurism are. I'm not saying that's the way I'd suggest approaching it because I think the NCAA should be about shaping the whole person but that's not what their charter is. Further, the NCAA is not some oversight group, it is the inmates running the asylum they get their "power" and funding from the member institutions themselves so there is a hesitance to bite the hand that feeds you.

I suppose that's true. And it makes their job easier.

But then why go down the road of "institutional control" at all?

jutaw22mu

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2018, 03:01:11 PM »

I mean, they are paying victims a half a billion dollars.  So it's hard for me to say they are "unscathed."

I also think accreditation agencies need to look harder at this stuff, especially when student safety is at issue.

Good point.

And I agree with you that accreditation agencies should take this stuff into consideration.

mu03eng

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2018, 03:27:47 PM »
I think if we are going to hold Urbie accountable for what an employee does after hours, then everyone should be held accountable..  So whoever was the coach, GM, owner of the Ravens when Ray Rice beat up his wife on camera in the elevator should also be held accountable.

It's what the NCAA did with the Penn State situation. Why should OSU be different?
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TAMU Eagle

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2018, 03:29:03 PM »
I think if we are going to hold Urbie accountable for what an employee does after hours, then everyone should be held accountable..  So whoever was the coach, GM, owner of the Ravens when Ray Rice beat up his wife on camera in the elevator should also be held accountable.

Gotcha. For me it's not holding him accountable for the actions of his employee, it's about his failure to report when he became aware of the behavior. At the time,  federal law mandates that any university employee who becomes aware of an alleged act of interpersonal violence (sexual assault, dating violence,  etc)  just report to the university. If I had done what he did,  I would have been fired no questions asked.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

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Marcus92

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2018, 12:36:27 PM »
If the NCAA wants to encourage more diligent oversight of athletic programs by member institutions, there has to be the prospect of serious punishment for not doing enough or looking the other way. That means hitting them where it hurts most: the bottom line.

Michigan State failed in its responsibilities to women student athletes. Athletes from the gymnastics, softball, volleyball, rowing and track and field programs accused MSU staff of dismissing their sexual abuse complaints against Nassar. The university's president and athletic director both resigned. And the NCAA saw nothing wrong with how things were handled?

With zero sanctions or penalties issued by the NCAA, the apparent message is that Michigan State runs a model athletic program. I'm not sure why the NCAA even bothered to launch an investigation in the first place -- other than to look like it's doing something (when it's actually doing nothing).
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TAMU Eagle

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2018, 01:30:44 PM »
The only way to get things like Penn State, Michigan State, Baylor, Tennesee, UNC, Ohio State, etc to stop is to punish their athletic teams. Frankly, that's the thing that the schools care about the most and will gladly sacrifice academics, money, and reputation to maintain them.

The NCAA is sidestepping and leaving these things to the Department of Education and accreditation boards. Well, Title IX is currently toothless and even when it had teeth, the Department of Education had never once used the teeth. UNC is never going to lose its accreditation over a scandal benefiting athletes and even if it did, they could get it through a different service.

Universities are taking hits to reputation and budgets through lawsuits....but strong athletics does far more for both reputation and the bottom line.

The only entity with the power to stop this on a national scale is the NCAA. But they have to decide that they want to stop it. I doubt they ever will.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Galway Eagle

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2018, 02:27:47 PM »
Should the NCAA actually try to call the bluff of some of the schools and see if they'll leave? I mean let's say they lose a couple true power schools I feel like there's enough schools to make it "next man up" no different than what happened with the Big East
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brewcity77

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2018, 02:35:41 PM »
The only way to get things like Penn State, Michigan State, Baylor, Tennesee, UNC, Ohio State, etc to stop is to punish their athletic teams. Frankly, that's the thing that the schools care about the most and will gladly sacrifice academics, money, and reputation to maintain them.

Agreed. The NCAA is reticent to use the death penalty again, but the only measure that will work is to actually take those sports away for a time. As long as they can keep competing, there's no real teeth to their punishments.

Jockey

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2018, 04:32:39 PM »
I think if we are going to hold Urbie accountable for what an employee does after hours, then everyone should be held accountable..  So whoever was the coach, GM, owner of the Ravens when Ray Rice beat up his wife on camera in the elevator should also be held accountable.

If they knew Rice was beating his wife and did nothing about it, they should be held responsible. I don't believe that was the case.

tower912

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2018, 06:41:19 PM »
MSU:   President, gone.   AD, gone.   1/2 billion dollars gone.   They continue to pay the price.    But, and here is the differentiation, these are criminal and civil matters, not NCAA related matters.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

 

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