McCain discontinues treatment

[TSmith34, Inc.]

If he calls his wife anything next Tuesday it'll be the story of the year.

If it is unclear what "c u next Tuesday" means, read the story

[naginiF]

If it is unclear what "c u next Tuesday" means, read the story

TEAL[/u][/b]

[MU82]

Mike - I don't know HC and have no way of knowing whether he has had any dealings with John McCain but I'm curious how you and Sultan evidently know he's lying. What am I missing?

He has demonstrated that he is not a trustworthy individual.

[WarriorDad]

So say McCain was too centrist for some conservatives.

Don't say Conservatives hated McCain.

Whether we use the word hate, loathe, despise, dislike, that is what some journalists described and I am restating.  Doesn't make their opinion of him right, but doesn't change their opinion of him either.  Many of them did not like the man. Not sure why restating what at least some journalists used to describe is wrong.  These are but a few of examples I was drawing from and stating.

For me to use the words you want me to use doesn't change that some of them they hated, despised, didn't like or fill in the descriptor.  You are wanting to state the why, him being too centrist. That is fine, but doesn't change how that side felt about him. To a large enough degree that these journalists, opinion writers, news media thought it worthy to put in the NY Times, Washington Post, and other outlets.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ah,  so long as some journalists held an opinion,  it makes it true. Good to know

[MU82]

Ah,  so long as some journalists held an opinion,  it makes it true. Good to know

c2 says something inaccurate. He then finds others who said something similar and uses his parroting of the inaccurate statement as some kind of proof or justification.

Also notice how he misrepresents what he said in the first place -- now saying "many" conservatives "didn't like" McCain after previously saying, simply, "McCain was hated by conservatives."

And he'll keep going until either somebody acknowledges that he was "right" or until nobody wants to argue with him any more.

The more things change ...

[WarriorDad]

I have had dealings with McCain over the years. I would say this,McCain was the one of the few remaining Senators whose allegiance was to his own personal brand rather than his party. He derived a lot of power and influence because of this posture. I believe the Senate was more effective when there were more guys like him around.  It was a lot easier to get things done and make the back room trades that were necessary.

Sad to see other MU fans call you untrustworthy.  I may not agree with your points of view on some matters, but enjoy reading your perspectives. 

Ah,  so long as some journalists held an opinion,  it makes it true. Good to know

It wasn't some journalists, we're talking Washington Post, NY Times, US News, CNN and others, I only displayed a small portion here.  If you read through some of those articles, there is data to support there claims based on interviews and polling information.  There are opinions, and there are opinions supported by data.  Does it not strike you from a consistency perspective that some of the leading journalistic outlets in this country all said the same thing?  At what point does it become one or two journalists' opinions before it becomes truth with data supporting it?  He had a problem where his side of the aisle didn't care for him, and likely for the reason you stated. https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/07/us/politics/07conservative.html   That doesn't change how they felt about him. For the same reason Bernie supporters didn't care for Hillary (some journalists used the same words of hate, despise, loathe), and did not support her, one of the reasons she lost. 

I do not understand the controversy here. 

[MU82]

I do not understand the controversy here.

It's not a "controversy." A few of us simply want to know if you are sticking with your original "McCain was hated by conservatives," or are you now going with the amended "many conservatives didn't like McCain"? Do you at least acknowledge the difference?

Thanks, and have a nice day!

[Lennys Tap]

Fun fact, John McCain has an account on Scoop.

And he's one of Scoop's more insightful posters.

[Coleman]

And he's one of Scoop's more insightful posters.

that isn't saying much.

[Lennys Tap]

that isn't saying much.

Good point!

[Jockey]

It's not a "controversy." A few of us simply want to know if you are sticking with your original "McCain was hated by conservatives," or are you now going with the amended "many conservatives didn't like McCain"? Do you at least acknowledge the difference?

Thanks, and have a nice day!

I hate to be the voice of reason here - most here know it is not what I do well (or even strive to do) - but the truth is somewhere in between the battling opinions here.

For most of his tenure, he was loved by conservatives, but the makeup of conservatives has changed drastically. To find out what these "new" conservatives think, just go to Breitbart and read the vile comments by the 10's of thousands. Fox had to turn off their comments section on McCain's death because of the unbelievable nastiness of these conservatives.

We live in a different world now. Conservatives have become a cult of personality rather than a movement based on a set of beliefs. And this new cult views McCain as somewhere between Obama and Satan.

[MU82]

I hate to be the voice of reason here - most here know it is not what I do well (or even strive to do) - but the truth is somewhere in between the battling opinions here.

For most of his tenure, he was loved by conservatives, but the makeup of conservatives has changed drastically. To find out what these "new" conservatives think, just go to Breitbart and read the vile comments by the 10's of thousands. Fox had to turn off their comments section on McCain's death because of the unbelievable nastiness of these conservatives.

We live in a different world now. Conservatives have become a cult of personality rather than a movement based on a set of beliefs. And this new cult views McCain as somewhere between Obama and Satan.

Because I don't need instructions on how to be a racist, I don't read Breitbart. So I'll have to take your word for it.

I mostly know my circle of friends and associates. And most of the conservatives among them like and respect McCain, and they say the current occupant of the White House is not a conservative.

But yes, brand, I get your point about what's happened to the Grand Old Party.

[Jockey]

I mostly know my circle of friends and associates. And most of the conservatives among them like and respect McCain, and they say the current occupant of the White House is not a conservative.

Exactly the same in my case. But I don't know how representative we are as I know that I avoid a certain portion of the population

Rather than left or right, I think we probably just look for decency and other attractive human traits when it comes to friends. There is a percentage of the population that lacks these, and I certainly avoid them.

[mu03eng]

I hate to be the voice of reason here - most here know it is not what I do well (or even strive to do) - but the truth is somewhere in between the battling opinions here.

For most of his tenure, he was loved by conservatives, but the makeup of conservatives has changed drastically. To find out what these "new" conservatives think, just go to Breitbart and read the vile comments by the 10's of thousands. Fox had to turn off their comments section on McCain's death because of the unbelievable nastiness of these conservatives.

We live in a different world now. Conservatives have become a cult of personality rather than a movement based on a set of beliefs. And this new cult views McCain as somewhere between Obama and Satan.

This isn't inaccurate, but not to go all fake news, but the cult of personality is largely a right wing media artifact and a left wing political talking point. There is no doubt that there is a voting block that represents some Hannity Conservative wing (I'm looking at you Freedom Caucus/Tea Party) that would be anti-McCain but it far from represents all "conservatives". The left wing equivalent is whatever is shaping up around Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, the media seems to want to represent that she and her voting block are the "future" of the liberal movement, whether that's true or not remains to be seen, but they certainly aren't a large portion of the liberal voting block yet.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

This isn't inaccurate, but not to go all fake news, but the cult of personality is largely a right wing media artifact and a left wing political talking point. There is no doubt that there is a voting block that represents some Hannity Conservative wing (I'm looking at you Freedom Caucus/Tea Party) that would be anti-McCain but it far from represents all "conservatives". The left wing equivalent is whatever is shaping up around Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, the media seems to want to represent that she and her voting block are the "future" of the liberal movement, whether that's true or not remains to be seen, but they certainly aren't a large portion of the liberal voting block yet.

I think it is also kind of a funny concept.  Do you think there are people on the left that hate Bernie Sanders or Joe Manchin in their span of political positions/ideologies.  Using those two because i would imagine that would be almost the entire span of the Democrat party in today's senate.

[brewcity77]

I think it is also kind of a funny concept.  Do you think there are people on the left that hate Bernie Sanders or Joe Manchin in their span of political positions/ideologies.  Using those two because i would imagine that would be almost the entire span of the Democrat party in today's senate.

I think hate is extreme, but there's definitely frustration on the left with them at times, albeit usually for different reasons.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I think hate is extreme, but there's definitely frustration on the left with them at times, albeit usually for different reasons.

Is this the point where I am supposed to get screen shots of people using the word hate?

I agree its hyperbolic, but I guess I just don't get the concept of 'extreme animosity'.

[mu03eng]

I think it is also kind of a funny concept.  Do you think there are people on the left that hate Bernie Sanders or Joe Manchin in their span of political positions/ideologies.  Using those two because i would imagine that would be almost the entire span of the Democrat party in today's senate.

Absolutely there are Bernie Sanders types that want to kick Manchin out of the party and vice versa.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

And he's one of Scoop's more insightful posters.

AZU17?

[brewcity77]

Absolutely there are Bernie Sanders types that want to kick Manchin out of the party and vice versa.

Maybe, but if Flake or Corker swapped their R for an I and started caucusing with the Democrats, they'd all willingly accept them, no matter how far the divide of their personal politics.

[MU82]

Maybe, but if Flake or Corker swapped their R for an I and started caucusing with the Democrats, they'd all willingly accept them, no matter how far the divide of their personal politics.

Agreed, brewski.

Few if any Dems would call them DINOs.

[Jockey]

This isn't inaccurate, but not to go all fake news, but the cult of personality is largely a right wing media artifact and a left wing political talking point. There is no doubt that there is a voting block that represents some Hannity Conservative wing (I'm looking at you Freedom Caucus/Tea Party) that would be anti-McCain but it far from represents all "conservatives". The left wing equivalent is whatever is shaping up around Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, the media seems to want to represent that she and her voting block are the "future" of the liberal movement, whether that's true or not remains to be seen, but they certainly aren't a large portion of the liberal voting block yet.

I rarely disagree with you, Eng - as you are one of a small handful of the voices of reason on this board, no matter the subject.

But this time I do. The cult of personality is very real. People who used to call themselves conservatives have suspended reality. They really believe the Press is the enemy of the people. They really believe the FBI, CIA, and other arms of law enforcement are evil. They really believe Hillary is the ringleader of a group of Pedophiles. They really believe that Putin is our friend.

And their is only one reason they believe these things. None of those beliefs are even remotely connected to conservative principles.

In any era, you can name nuts on either side of the aisle. But they are few and far between. That is not the case here. They are out there by the tens of millions. And they have zero concern for conservative principles.

[NWarsh]

I rarely disagree with you, Eng - as you are one of a small handful of the voices of reason on this board, no matter the subject.

But this time I do. The cult of personality is very real. People who used to call themselves conservatives have suspended reality. They really believe the Press is the enemy of the people. They really believe the FBI, CIA, and other arms of law enforcement are evil. They really believe Hillary is the ringleader of a group of Pedophiles. They really believe that Putin is our friend.

And their is only one reason they believe these things. None of those beliefs are even remotely connected to conservative principles.

In any era, you can name nuts on either side of the aisle. But they are few and far between. That is not the case here. They are out there by the tens of millions. And they have zero concern for conservative principles.

Agreed Jockey - and all you have to do is look at the current president's approval ratings since taking office.  They really do not fluctuate that much at all.  He will be a point or two above or below 40%.  Hell the week he was implicated in a felony he was at 41%, just 4 points off his high mark.  That tells me that there is a very large base in this country who are exactly what you described above.

[Babybluejeans]

In any era, you can name nuts on either side of the aisle. But they are few and far between. That is not the case here. They are out there by the tens of millions. And they have zero concern for conservative principles.

That's my favorite part. Trump's brand of politics bears little relationship to traditional conservative principles - just look at the decision to renegotiate Nafta (that's a super Dem move). But Trump was shrewd enough to know that if he kept the throughline of racism that has long simmered below the surface of conservatism, then he could bring in whole swaths of people who weren't really committed to either party AND not risk losing Republicans. Now that the racism has burst into plain view, it seems that R's are perfectly willing to adopt non-conservative policies and look the other way at comically open corruption, so long as it advances their tribal instincts. It's completely exposed Republicans' "conservative principles" as the B.S. it always was (because, hey, they're not really principles if you're willing to fold them up like a camping chair), and it shows the purported party of "values" as a valueless group of poseurs.