McCain discontinues treatment

[Coleman]

Not trying to be political.

A true American hero. Thanks for your service John. I didn't vote for you, but I would not regret it if I had. You always had the country's best interests at heart.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

It is a terrible disease.

[tower912]

Just because I disagreed with his politics doesn't mean I ever had anything but respect for the man.  Thanks for your service.  Godspeed.

[Babybluejeans]

I think the word "hero" is overused but not for McCain. I highly encourage reading David Foster Wallace's piece on McCain for Rolling Stone in 2000, if only for his thoughtful meditation on what McCain's life as a POW must have been like:

You probably already know what happened. In October of ’67 McCain was himself still a Young Voter and flying his 23rd Vietnam combat mission and his A-4 Skyhawk plane got shot down over Hanoi and he had to eject, which basically means setting off an explosive charge that blows your seat out of the plane, which ejection broke both McCain’s arms and one leg and gave him a concussion and he started falling out of the skies right over Hanoi. Try to imagine for a second how much this would hurt and how scared you’d be, three limbs broken and falling toward the enemy capital you just tried to bomb. His chute opened late and he landed hard in a little lake in a park right in the middle of downtown Hanoi, Imagine treading water with broken arms and trying to pull the life vest’s toggle with your teeth as a crowd of Vietnamese men swim out toward you (there’s film of this, somebody had a home – movie camera, and the N.V. government released it, though it’s grainy and McCain’s face is hard to see). The crowd pulled him out and then just about killed him. U.S. bomber pilots were especially hated, for obvious reasons. McCain got bayoneted in the groin; a soldier broke his shoulder apart with a rifle butt. Plus by this time his right knee was bent 90-degrees to the side with the bone sticking out. Try to imagine this. He finally got tossed on a jeep and taken five blocks to the infamous Hoa Lo prison – a.k.a. the “Hanoi Hilton,” of much movie fame – where they made him beg a week for a doctor and finally set a couple of the fractures without anesthetic and let two other fractures and the groin wound (imagine: groin wound) stay like they were. Then they threw him in a cell. Try for a moment to feel this. All the media profiles talk about how McCain still can’t lift his arms over his head to comb his hair, which is true. But try to imagine it at the time, yourself in his place, because it’s important. Think about how diametrically opposed to your own self-interest getting knifed in the balls and having fractures set without painkiller would be, and then about getting thrown in a cell to just lie there and hurt, which is what happened. He was delirious with pain for weeks, and his weight dropped to 100 pounds, and the other POWs were sure he would die; and then after a few months like that after his bones mostly knitted and he could sort of stand up they brought him in to the prison commandant’s office and offered to let him go. This is true. They said he could just leave. They had found out that McCain’s father was one of the top-ranking naval officers in the U.S. Armed Forces (which is true – both his father and grandfather were admirals), and the North Vietnamese wanted the PR coup of mercifully releasing his son, the baby-killer. McCain, 100 pounds and barely able to stand, refused, The U.S. military’s Code of Conduct for Prisoners of War apparently said that POWs had to be released in the order they were captured, and there were others who’d been in Hoa Lo a long time, and McCain refused to violate the Code. The commandant, not pleased, right there in the office had guards break his ribs, rebreak his arm, knock his teeth out. McCain still refused to leave without the other POWs. And so then he spent four more years in Hoa Lo like this, much of the time in solitary, in the dark, in a closet-sized box called a “punishment cell.” Maybe you’ve heard all this before; it’s been in umpteen different media profiles of McCain. But try to imagine that moment between getting offered early release and turning it down. Try to imagine it was you. Imagine how loudly your most basic, primal self-interest would have cried out to you in that moment, and all the ways you could rationalize accepting the offer. Can you hear it? It so, would you have refused to go? You simply can’t know for sure. None of us can. It’s hard even to imagine the pain and fear in that moment, much less know how you’d react.

But, see, we do know how this man reacted. That he chose to spend four more years there, in a dark box, alone, tapping code on the walls to the others, rather than violate a Code. Maybe he was nuts. But the point is that with McCain it feels like we know, for a proven fact, that he’s capable of devotion to something other, more, than his own self-interest.

Full piece: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/david-foster-wallace-on-john-mccain-the-weasel-twelve-monkeys-and-the-shrub-194272/

[Coleman]

I think the word "hero" is overused but not for McCain.

I agree entirely. We have few heroes in today's times. McCain is one.

[real chili 83]

I've heard an "interesting" spin on McCain.  I heard this from someone who has been in the military and also comes from a military family.

The story is that before McCain was a POW, he had a terrible accident on an aircraft carrier.  Supposedly, he did not follow safety protocol of some sort while operating his jet on deck, and this resulted in the death(s) of Navy personnel.  Supposedly this was a court martial offense, but McCain got out of it due to his father being a wealthy, high ranking Navy officer (admiral I believe). 

Has anyone else heard this story? 

For me, even if true, does not diminish or minimize in any way what he went through as a POW.

[reinko]

I've heard an "interesting" spin on McCain.  I heard this from someone who has been in the military and also comes from a military family.

The story is that before McCain was a POW, he had a terrible accident on an aircraft carrier.  Supposedly, he did not follow safety protocol of some sort while operating his jet on deck, and this resulted in the death(s) of Navy personnel.  Supposedly this was a court martial offense, but McCain got out of it due to his father being a wealthy, high ranking Navy officer (admiral I believe). 

Has anyone else heard this story? 

For me, even if true, does not diminish or minimize in any way what he went through as a POW.

Looks like fake news...

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/john-mccain-fire-uss-forrestal/

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/aug/07/blog-posting/posts-blame-john-mccain-deadly-1967-fire-aboard-us/

[Lennys Tap]

It is a terrible disease.

My Dad died of brain cancer - it's generally fast moving and lethal.

[Archies Bat]

I've heard an "interesting" spin on McCain.  I heard this from someone who has been in the military and also comes from a military family.

The story is that before McCain was a POW, he had a terrible accident on an aircraft carrier.  Supposedly, he did not follow safety protocol of some sort while operating his jet on deck, and this resulted in the death(s) of Navy personnel.  Supposedly this was a court martial offense, but McCain got out of it due to his father being a wealthy, high ranking Navy officer (admiral I believe). 

Has anyone else heard this story? 


For me, even if true, does not diminish or minimize in any way what he went through as a POW.

It has been many years since I read the Navy report on that accident (Google Forrestal fire), and I no longer have access to the reports,  However, from memory, McCain was awaiting takeoff on the carriers flight deck when a Zuni missile from a plane accidentally fired due to an electrical surge and hit other planes, igniting a jet fuel fire.  I don't believe it was McCain's plane that had the missile fire, but I really don't know for sure, as that was not something I was looking at.

I do know that the main issue with that incident was the lack of the ability to fight a major flight deck conflagration.

[RJax55]

Looks like fake news...

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/john-mccain-fire-uss-forrestal/

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/aug/07/blog-posting/posts-blame-john-mccain-deadly-1967-fire-aboard-us/

Yes, its a conspiracy theory that has been floating around since as early as 1999.

[jsglow]

I see that Senator McCain has not yet been awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.  Frankly, I can't think of too many things more important for the President to attend to.  I'd fly out this weekend and pay the proper respect.

[Jockey]

I see that Senator McCain has not yet been awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.  Frankly, I can't think of too many things more important for the President to attend to.  I'd fly out this weekend and pay the proper respect.

Apparently, there are a few things you are not aware of.

[jsglow]

Apparently, there are a few things you are not aware of.

You know what jockey?  We're trying to have a respectful discussion here.  Something you are wholly incapable of in my experience.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I see that Senator McCain has not yet been awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.  Frankly, I can't think of too many things more important for the President to attend to.  I'd fly out this weekend and pay the proper respect.

McCain doesn't want the President to visit him let alone attend his funeral.
McCain has already asked that Presidents Obama & W. Bush give his eulogy.

[jsglow]

McCain doesn't want the President to visit him let alone attend his funeral.
McCain has already asked that Presidents Obama & W. Bush give his eulogy.

Didn't know.  Thanks.

[Coleman]

I see that Senator McCain has not yet been awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.  Frankly, I can't think of too many things more important for the President to attend to.  I'd fly out this weekend and pay the proper respect.

I agree with you. But I wouldn't hold my breath that this happens...

[Jockey]

You know what jockey?  We're trying to have a respectful discussion here.  Something you are wholly incapable of in my experience.

Despite your nasty remark, I will reply.

I am dumbfounded as to what I said that was disrespectful. Maybe you could tell me.

What makes you think Trump would give McCain a medal that he absolutely deserves? Trump detests McCain. When asked about him, he said McCain was NOT a war hero. The McCain family has told Trump that he will not be welcome at the funeral.

I did not say these things in the original post because they are all common knowledge.

[mu03eng]

It has been many years since I read the Navy report on that accident (Google Forrestal fire), and I no longer have access to the reports,  However, from memory, McCain was awaiting takeoff on the carriers flight deck when a Zuni missile from a plane accidentally fired due to an electrical surge and hit other planes, igniting a jet fuel fire.  I don't believe it was McCain's plane that had the missile fire, but I really don't know for sure, as that was not something I was looking at.

I do know that the main issue with that incident was the lack of the ability to fight a major flight deck conflagration.

This is correct, he was in the Skyhawk that got hit with the accidental rocket...had to jump clear of his aircraft on to a deck below the flight deck.

[jsglow]

Despite your nasty remark, I will reply.

I am dumbfounded as to what I said that was disrespectful. Maybe you could tell me.

What makes you think Trump would give McCain a medal that he absolutely deserves? Trump detests McCain. When asked about him, he said McCain was NOT a war hero. The McCain family has told Trump that he will not be welcome at the funeral.

I did not say these things in the original post because they are all common knowledge.

Your position is common knowledge here brandy.  You don't need to repeat it for the 10,000th time, especially using someone's quote as a launching point.  Had you not quoted me I would have simply glossed over it.  Thanks.  Have a pleasant weekend.

[real chili 83]

This is correct, he was in the Skyhawk that got hit with the accidental rocket...had to jump clear of his aircraft on to a deck below the flight deck.

I know someone who was on the Forrestal when this happened.

Thanks to all for the input.

[forgetful]

True American hero.  We need more people like him. 

Prayers for him and his family during this difficult time.

[dgies9156]

My Dad died of brain cancer - it's generally fast moving and lethal.

So did my mom.

Thank you Senator McCain for your service to our country. You led wisely and showed great class in times of great stress.

And, I voted him in 2008. When he lost to President Obama, he showed an enormous amount of class and dignity that's sorely lacking at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue today.

[Jay Bee]

So did my mom.

Thank you Senator McCain for your service to our country. You led wisely and showed great class in times of great stress.

And, I voted him in 2008. When he lost to President Obama, he showed an enormous amount of class and dignity that's sorely lacking at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue today.

^^ ban dis guy

[TSmith34, Inc.]

And, I voted him in 2008. When he lost to President Obama, he showed an enormous amount of class and dignity that's sorely lacking at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue today.

At a campaign rally, McCain also corrected a woman who was ranting that Obama was a Muslim.  It was the honorable thing to do, and probably cost him a not insignificant number of votes.

I think the respect was mutual considering McCain has requested Obama and W deliver his eulogy.

[WarriorDad]

Apparently, there are a few things you are not aware of.

Stop, note that no other president gave the award out either.  This isn’t about the idiot in office now, it is about the Senator.