Yep, I'm starting another generational thread

[mu_hilltopper]

You come out with a Marquette degree, for which you paid $200,000 and have God-knows how much debt, or an Iowa degree with a $72,000 cost, all-in, with far less debt. You work for the Daily Wizzbang in Outer Bumfork and you make $36,000 annually. Which option makes your life better?

I love Marquette but I fear the university is pricing itself out of the market for too many good candidates.

I've asked/said this for years:  As tuition/room/board continue to increase at multiples of inflation (and wages stagnate) the universe of people who can (or should) afford Marquette shrinks to zero over the long term.

This goes for all privates, really.

[GGGG]

I've asked/said this for years:  As tuition/room/board continue to increase at multiples of inflation (and wages stagnate) the universe of people who can (or should) afford Marquette shrinks to zero over the long term.

This goes for all privates, really.

But again, very few people pay the list price.  What matters is the discount.

I have worked in both public and private higher education.  I have a child that went to a private university and one to a public university.  Here are my general observations.  First, both give you a great education that can set you up for a great career.  Second, private colleges / universities excel in personal attention and are much better at developing a community feel among their students and graduates.  Third, public higher education struggles with the second point.  Students have to navigate the system more on their own.  For as much time, effort and money that publics have thrown into trying to improve this experience, it is hard.

So the question becomes, how much of this is worth it to the average student?  Would you pay $5,000 more per year?  (Or would their parents?)  $10,000?  $15,000?

I think you would be surprised at the number of students who want that experience.  Or parents that want that experience for their child.

[jesmu84]

I feel the underlying point is, again, costs keep increasing while wages/income stays stagnant or decreases and overall money moves to the top.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

But again, very few people pay the list price.  What matters is the discount.

I have worked in both public and private higher education.  I have a child that went to a private university and one to a public university.  Here are my general observations.  First, both give you a great education that can set you up for a great career.  Second, private colleges / universities excel in personal attention and are much better at developing a community feel among their students and graduates.  Third, public higher education struggles with the second point.  Students have to navigate the system more on their own.  For as much time, effort and money that publics have thrown into trying to improve this experience, it is hard.

So the question becomes, how much of this is worth it to the average student?  Would you pay $5,000 more per year?  (Or would their parents?)  $10,000?  $15,000?

I think you would be surprised at the number of students who want that experience.  Or parents that want that experience for their child.

I am guessing your experience is with a large, flagship type public university.

The smaller state schools can provide that community experience for a fraction of the cost.

For example,  UW-Eau Claire has about 10,000 students and total cost of attendance of $16,500 for residents  ($25,000 for non-residents).

Compare that to UW-Madison: 43,000 students and total cost of attendance for residents is $25,000.

Some students are better off being an honor student at UWEC than a regular UW-Madison student.

Society tends to believe the name brand school is better.  But the extra cost does not always equal a higher salary.

[dgies9156]

Daily Wizzbang was recently acquired by Gannett.  Salaries were cut to $29,000.

Brother Benny, the salaries at the Wizzbang were cut after Gannett eliminated the prduction and advertising staffs, consolidating both at a production hub 400 miles away. Half the editorial staff was eliminated before the salary cuts.

Among the layoffs was the Daily Wizzbang's AP Award Winning Government Affairs reporter. She was reduced to blogging, day trading and as night job as a greeter at the West Bumfork Walmart. Frustrated with Journalism, she has been accepted at State University's MBA program and will study data analytics.

[GGGG]

I am guessing your experience is with a large, flagship type public university.

The smaller state schools can provide that community experience for a fraction of the cost.

Actually my working and parental experiences have been at smaller state universities.  I don't think it's a function of size.  I think it's a function of midset. 

[dgies9156]

But again, very few people pay the list price.  What matters is the discount.

Brother Sultan, I am not sure I agree with this. You don't pay list if your income fits with what the FALFSA guidelines might be or if your student is in a demographic that a university wants. Otherwise, the financial aid is minimal.

The scarey part about Marquette is that both my Dad and my Wife worked their way through the university. My Dad was part of the post World War II generation that attended MU in the 1950s and my Wife is a boomer. It was not easy for either one of them but my Dad came out debt free and my Wife had a small National Direct Loan (cancelled after her first year due to changing eligibility requirements) that we paid off fairly quickly.

I doubt anyone today could do what either my Dad or my Wife did. Feel free to explain how I am misguided.

I had one Marquette say in response to my concerns about tuition, "well everyone else is doing it." Apart from a Mass Man Fallacy, I told the official, "I'm not of every other school. I am Marquette!" I've given to MU Scholarships for decades and my fear is that I'm subsidizing Marquette's bloated tuition.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Brother Sultan, I am not sure I agree with this. You don't pay list if your income fits with what the FALFSA guidelines might be or if your student is in a demographic that a university wants. Otherwise, the financial aid is minimal.

The scarey part about Marquette is that both my Dad and my Wife worked their way through the university. My Dad was part of the post World War II generation that attended MU in the 1950s and my Wife is a boomer. It was not easy for either one of them but my Dad came out debt free and my Wife had a small National Direct Loan (cancelled after her first year due to changing eligibility requirements) that we paid off fairly quickly.

I doubt anyone today could do what either my Dad or my Wife did. Feel free to explain how I am misguided.

I had one Marquette say in response to my concerns about tuition, "well everyone else is doing it." Apart from a Mass Man Fallacy, I told the official, "I'm not of every other school. I am Marquette!" I've given to MU Scholarships for decades and my fear is that I'm subsidizing Marquette's bloated tuition.

You're not wrong about most being unable to work their way through Marquette. But vast majority of attendees don't pay the sticker price, regardless of family income. Marquette is very liberal with scholarships for academics and service to help counter the high tuition. My family definitely did not qualify for any financial aid but I got nearly a third of my tuition paid for via scholarship from Marquette, and I'm not that smart of a cookie.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Actually my working and parental experiences have been at smaller state universities.  I don't think it's a function of size.  I think it's a function of midset.

Thanks for sharing. The people I know have had a mix of experiences with small state universities.  Some feel they were part of a tight knit community, some don't.  Those I know that went to a large state school almost never do.

You're probably right that private schools are best at providing that community feel.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Daily Wizzbang was recently acquired by Gannett.  Salaries were cut to $29,000.

The Daily Wizzbang sounds like a great crapper newspaper.  Does it have a crossword?

[GGGG]

Brother Sultan, I am not sure I agree with this. You don't pay list if your income fits with what the FALFSA guidelines might be or if your student is in a demographic that a university wants. Otherwise, the financial aid is minimal.

That is absolutely not true.  Marquette gives discounts off its tuition for the vast majority of students who attend.  Not simply aid based on need, but based on how much they want you there for academic an other reasons. 

Private colleges have it down to a science.  How many students do they want, and how much do they want the average student to pay (or have covered by other sources like Pell Grants and private scholarships.)  They then set up their scholarship programs accordingly.  Essentially students who pay more than average are subsidizing those who pay less.

[dgies9156]

That is absolutely not true.  Marquette gives discounts off its tuition for the vast majority of students who attend.  Not simply aid based on need, but based on how much they want you there for academic an other reasons. 

Private colleges have it down to a science.  How many students do they want, and how much do they want the average student to pay (or have covered by other sources like Pell Grants and private scholarships.)  They then set up their scholarship programs accordingly.  Essentially students who pay more than average are subsidizing those who pay less.

Brother Sultan, then why go through the monkey business of having a list price nobody supposedly pays? Seems ridiculous and misleading and it suggests that higher income better than average students that don't fit their demographic are, politely, going to get screwed.

Right?

[GGGG]

Brother Sultan, then why go through the monkey business of having a list price nobody supposedly pays? Seems ridiculous and misleading and it suggests that higher income better than average students that don't fit their demographic are, politely, going to get screwed.

Right?

It's about finding people's price point.  And yes, the rich dumb kids subsidize the poor smart ones.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Brother Sultan, then why go through the monkey business of having a list price nobody supposedly pays? Seems ridiculous and misleading and it suggests that higher income better than average students that don't fit their demographic are, politely, going to get screwed.

Right?

Same reason retailers mark up prices, then put items on sale.  To give the impression of getting a deal.

(Plus,  letting alums know the true cost might show how important it is for them to donate.)

[mu03eng]

Same reason retailers mark up prices, then put items on sale.  To give the impression of getting a deal.

(Plus,  letting alums know the true cost might show how important it is for them to donate.)

Cool, MU is the Kohl's of the university scene 

[Benny B]

The Daily Wizzbang sounds like a great crapper newspaper.  Does it have a crossword?

Sadly, no.  But 82's daily column closely resembles a word jumble.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Sadly, no.  But 82's daily column closely resembles a word jumble.

He's no Myron Medcalf, aina.

[dgies9156]

Sadly, no.  But 82's daily column closely resembles a word jumble.

The Daily Wizzbang lacks a crossword puzzle because the average West Bumforkian who reads the Wizzer probably struggles with words having more than five letters.

Gannett loved the Daily Wizzbang because it was doing seven-paragraph feature stories (due to the average attention span of a West Bumforkian) long before anyone every dreamed of USA Today.

[MU82]

Not sure how much things have changed, but maybe TAMU can say ...

My daughter graduated HS in 2005 and went to Lawrence. It's a very expensive, small, private, liberal arts school. One reason she chose it is that they offered her a cost structure that ended up being fairly similar to what she would have paid had she attended Illinois (we lived in Chicago back then). We weren't rich, but we sure as heck weren't poor; my wife had just gone back to work a couple years earlier, and we had a decent combined income. I actually was surprised Lawrence gave such a nice discount, and my daughter really got a lot out of her college experience.

[rocket surgeon]

The Daily Wizzbang sounds like a great crapper newspaper.  Does it have a crossword?

with a name like "wizzbang" there has got to be a great story to it's legacy or at least they could make one up with a straight face though anyway.   it does leave some room for a customized feature page-what have they got to lose?  it could go more along the lines of zigs target audience-who ain't gotta use the dubya C a few times a day

[mu03eng]

Not sure how much things have changed, but maybe TAMU can say ...

My daughter graduated HS in 2005 and went to Lawrence. It's a very expensive, small, private, liberal arts school. One reason she chose it is that they offered her a cost structure that ended up being fairly similar to what she would have paid had she attended Illinois (we lived in Chicago back then). We weren't rich, but we sure as heck weren't poor; my wife had just gone back to work a couple years earlier, and we had a decent combined income. I actually was surprised Lawrence gave such a nice discount, and my daughter really got a lot out of her college experience.

When I chose MU I was deciding between MU and Penn State, I was living out of state (Illinois) at the time so PSU and MU ended up being about the same price when you factored in the engineering scholarship money, etc. However, if PSU had ended up being cheaper I would have gone there....economics matter.

[mu03eng]

A follow up to the MU list price thing.....how many folks do you think MU keeps away due to "sticker shock"? I'd be a little worried that we aren't getting a diversity of backgrounds, experiences, and economic standing applying to the university simply because prospective students look at the sticker price and say "that's the rich kids school". Having said that, maybe kids aren't looking at the price at all if they are taking on $200K in debt so it doesn't really matter.

[warriorchick]

A follow up to the MU list price thing.....how many folks do you think MU keeps away due to "sticker shock"? I'd be a little worried that we aren't getting a diversity of backgrounds, experiences, and economic standing applying to the university simply because prospective students look at the sticker price and say "that's the rich kids school". Having said that, maybe kids aren't looking at the price at all if they are taking on $200K in debt so it doesn't really matter.

I am sure it's a huge issue.  I think many parents assume that they won't be able to afford Marquette, not realizing that often with scholarships and other financial aid, it might be comparable to an in-state school where they have to pay rack rate.

[jsglow]

A follow up to the MU list price thing.....how many folks do you think MU keeps away due to "sticker shock"? I'd be a little worried that we aren't getting a diversity of backgrounds, experiences, and economic standing applying to the university simply because prospective students look at the sticker price and say "that's the rich kids school". Having said that, maybe kids aren't looking at the price at all if they are taking on $200K in debt so it doesn't really matter.

I think it's an issue eng.  I know for chick and I the cultural difference between now and when we went to school is quite large.  Wonder how you see is as you attended a generation later?  MU is trying hard to address it with its focus on 'first in family to college'.  That's actually been quite successful given the numbers.

Oh, and I don't have the final stats yet but this year's Frosh crop is both huge (almost 2200) and extremely talented with I believe the highest average ACT ever.  I guess I need to go find that thread about admissions where some said MU's new recruiting strategy was a mistake. 

[MU82]

I am sure it's a huge issue.  I think many parents assume that they won't be able to afford Marquette, not realizing that often with scholarships and other financial aid, it might be comparable to an in-state school where they have to pay rack rate.

I think this is spot on.

My daughter was a very bright kid (she's still very bright - just not a kid!) and she could have gone just about anywhere. She got accepted to Carleton, Grinnell, all the small lib-arts schools, which is what she wanted because she wanted both a great education and the opportunity to play D3 hoops.

Her first choice was Carleton but after looking at the price I just assumed that we couldn't afford it and we crossed it off the list. She ended up at Lawrence ... but, as I said in my earlier post, only after we received their full offer. Several months later, I was told by friends who had been through the process that we probably would have gotten a fairly similar deal from Carleton. I was, in a word, ignorant. Or at least naive.

I hope that kids thinking about MU will go through the entire process of seeing what it will actually cost vs just looking at the sticker and being shocked away.

My daughter ended up loving Lawrence and getting a lot out of it, so there are no regrets, but she almost surely could have gone to Carleton for a fairly similar price.