White Privilege at MU

[mu03eng]

Malcolm Gladwell might not be everyone's cup of tea but I thought this was an outstanding episode of his podcast, in part because I had no awareness of the Nixon-Sammy relationship

http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/26-the-hug-heard-round-the-world

[rocket surgeon]

Honestly this might be the most accurate thing that explains why theres no legitimate dialogue. Half the people out there think jokes,
Accepting institutional disadvantages, etc are not racist because the way they grew up, racism meant lynching and being pro separate but equal. The lines moved and those on the non racist side are too busy screaming racist to simply explain hey times have changed what's considered racist is less now. (That being said you then have a percentage of people who'd say they're sick of PC culture and those people are just looking for reasons to be jerks)

all good stuff bags, however, the PC culture bares some responsibility here as well.  as most will admit, the PC culture has gotten out hand and has become a lazy way to stamp out anything in between.  it(PC movement) has taken away the ability or need for people to have conversations.  to respectfully reason with others, trying to come to an acceptable and respectful conclusion as opposed to a "rules are rules" approach.  the PC culture needs to temper it's approach and recognize that there is room to maneuver and work with those who see things differently.  short of that, is what creates the animosity and then all chit hits the fan and no progress is made

[TSmith34, Inc.]

all good stuff bags, however, the PC culture bares some responsibility here as well.  as most will admit, the PC culture has gotten out hand and has become a lazy way to stamp out anything in between.  it(PC movement) has taken away the ability or need for people to have conversations.  to respectfully reason with others, trying to come to an acceptable and respectful conclusion as opposed to a "rules are rules" approach.  the PC culture needs to temper it's approach and recognize that there is room to maneuver and work with those who see things differently.  short of that, is what creates the animosity and then all chit hits the fan and no progress is made

No, "PC Culture" has become the go-to punching bag for a certain wing who whine that they can't say offensive sh!t without being called out.

[mu03eng]

No, "PC Culture" has become the go-to punching bag for a certain wing who whine that they can't say offensive sh!t without being called out.

I don't totally agree there. There is absolutely(most online in my experience) a culture which is suppressive of discussion in a antagonistic way. There is an absolute need for those who might be offended by something to bring the gap. You can call someone out in a nice way assuming what was said is more out of ignorance than deliberate belief.

[warriorchick]

No, "PC Culture" has become the go-to punching bag for a certain wing who whine that they can't say offensive sh!t without being called out.

Let's be honest.  There is at least some truth to it.

Have you ever wanted to ask a simple question about an acquaintance's culture or ethnicity, but didn't, because you were afraid it would be labeled as bigoted or racist?

If you are reluctant to start a conversation, even about something as benign as hairstyles, doesn't that hinder understanding?

I had an African-American friend in high school, and I felt comfortable asking him things like, "Have you ever gotten a sunburn?".  I would never risk asking a question like that now unless I was very close friends with the person.

[GGGG]

all good stuff bags, however, the PC culture bares some responsibility here as well.  as most will admit, the PC culture has gotten out hand and has become a lazy way to stamp out anything in between.  it(PC movement) has taken away the ability or need for people to have conversations.  to respectfully reason with others, trying to come to an acceptable and respectful conclusion as opposed to a "rules are rules" approach.  the PC culture needs to temper it's approach and recognize that there is room to maneuver and work with those who see things differently.  short of that, is what creates the animosity and then all chit hits the fan and no progress is made

Just when I think you’re learning, you go back to the same old talking point. #sad

[GGGG]

Let's be honest.  There is at least some truth to it.

Have you ever wanted to ask a simple question about an acquaintance's culture or ethnicity, but didn't, because you were afraid it would be labeled as bigoted or racist?

If you are reluctant to start a conversation, even about something as benign as hairstyles, doesn't that hinder understanding?

I had an African-American friend in high school, and I felt comfortable asking him things like, "Have you ever gotten a sunburn?".  I would never risk asking a question like that now unless I was very close friends with the person.

Stop using crutches people. Good lord.

[naginiF]

Stop using crutches people. Good lord.

Agree - these are limits people put on themselves.

As long as you are asking questions from a position of honest interest people are going to answer honestly. 

[warriorchick]

Stop using crutches people. Good lord.

Are you disputing that sometimes a perfectly innocent question can be taken as culturally insensitive, and that people who are aware of that potential may decide not to ask it?

[GGGG]

Are you disputing that sometimes a perfectly innocent question can be taken as culturally insensitive, and that people who are aware of that potential may decide not to ask it?

Look people get offended at all sorts of crap. Others don’t. It has nothing to do with “PC culture.” It’s because individuals have different tolerances for being offended.

Blaming “PC culture” is the same bullsh*t that people have been trotting out for 25 years.

[MU82]

I think "PC culture" is a crutch. Getting fired because you call a black person ape-like is not the "PC police" being abusive.

However, I do think things run amok sometimes. This trend of libs shouting down or totally preventing anybody to speak on college campuses if they don't totally support their views ... that's wrong. I'm not sure "PC culture" is the right thing to blame, though.

There's nothing PC about intolerance.

But let's not paint false equivalences here. There are people who support those in very high places who love to blame the "PC culture" anytime there is backlash to obviously racist actions and comments.

[Pakuni]

Are you disputing that sometimes a perfectly innocent question can be taken as culturally insensitive, and that people who are aware of that potential may decide not to ask it?

Well, if they're aware that their question can be taken as culturally insensitive, can't they just find a way to ask in another way? Seems like a more productive alternative than whining about how "PC culture" won't allow them to ask potentially insensitive questions.

[MerrittsMustache]

It goes both ways.

Many people blame "PC Culture" when they want a pass for saying/doing something offensive.

Many other people take political correctness too far and cry racism/sexism/intolerance seemingly every chance they get.

Rosanne getting fired for making racist comments on Twitter? Nothing to do with "PC Culture."

Doug Adler getting fired for using the term "guerilla" to describe Serena's play? Absolutely a result of "PC Culture."

[Galway Eagle]

all good stuff bags, however, the PC culture bares some responsibility here as well.  as most will admit, the PC culture has gotten out hand and has become a lazy way to stamp out anything in between.  it(PC movement) has taken away the ability or need for people to have conversations.  to respectfully reason with others, trying to come to an acceptable and respectful conclusion as opposed to a "rules are rules" approach.  the PC culture needs to temper it's approach and recognize that there is room to maneuver and work with those who see things differently.  short of that, is what creates the animosity and then all chit hits the fan and no progress is made

I agree with what you're saying. But as far as what a respectful and acceptable Compromise we may disagree. To me, life is better knowing I didn't make someone else's day worse because I wanted to tell an off color joke in front of them, that being said in front of close friends where you all understand each other's humor I'm all for anything goes humor. I think an issue generally starts on social media (or message boards) where people don't understand where everyone is coming from and some would rather fight for the right to retain off humor rather than accept that the world isn't filled with people who you have over for a party and some are thick skinned some are thin.

That being said I agree there are some aspects of that sensitive culture that have gotten ridiculous.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Are you disputing that sometimes a perfectly innocent question can be taken as culturally insensitive, and that people who are aware of that potential may decide not to ask it?

Personal opinion only here, but I don't think anyone should be afraid to ask a question where the intent is to learn.  It might not stop someone from being offended, but I think framing up the question properly and telling the person why you are asking it goes an awfully long way towards reducing that chance.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I don't totally agree there. There is absolutely(most online in my experience) a culture which is suppressive of discussion in a antagonistic way.

Sure there is, I don't disagree at all.  But IMO, there isn't equivalency either in the size of the groups (the anti-PC brigade vs. the overzealous PC contingent) nor in impact, nor for that matter is the relative morality of what those two sides are fighting for.

[forgetful]

I think "PC culture" is a crutch. Getting fired because you call a black person ape-like is not the "PC police" being abusive.

However, I do think things run amok sometimes. This trend of libs shouting down or totally preventing anybody to speak on college campuses if they don't totally support their views ... that's wrong. I'm not sure "PC culture" is the right thing to blame, though.

There's nothing PC about intolerance.

But let's not paint false equivalences here. There are people who support those in very high places who love to blame the "PC culture" anytime there is backlash to obviously racist actions and comments.

I think you hit the main points here.  "PC culture" is a crutch.  People in high places who are racist use it to justify blatant racist actions and statements.

But they get away with it, because of some elements that have gone too far.  The ones I would say are getting out of hand usually revolve around "cultural appropriation," where we have cases of 18-year old girls being attacked on the internet and shamed for wearing an asian-inspired dress to prom. 

That's absurd, and give ammunition to the people who use "PC culture" as a crutch.

[warriorchick]

But they get away with it, because of some elements that have gone too far.  The ones I would say are getting out of hand usually revolve around "cultural appropriation," where we have cases of 18-year old girls being attacked on the internet and shamed for wearing an asian-inspired dress to prom. 

Recently there was a white fashion model who appeared on the cover of Black Hair magazine.  She was excoriated for it, even though she had signed a general model's release for the photo and had no idea how it was going to be used.  She wound up publicly apologizing for "cultural appropriation".

She had naturally curly hair which was not changed in any way for the photo.

[Jockey]

Recently there was a white fashion model who appeared on the cover of Black Hair magazine.  She was excoriated for it, even though she had signed a general model's release for the photo and had no idea how it was going to be used.  She wound up publicly apologizing for "cultural appropriation".

She had naturally curly hair which was not changed in any way for the photo.

1. She should not have apologized.

2. Why was she attacked rather than the editor of the magazine who put her on the cover?

In reality, neither did anything wrong. Whiners gonna whine. We should not enable them.

[Pakuni]

In reality, neither did anything wrong. Whiners gonna whine. We should not enable them.

Speaking of whiners, some very triggered Star Wars fans have declared "rebellion" on Lucasfilm and Disney because they new trilogy is apparently PC and pushing "an agenda of masculine inferiority."
Read the manifesto. It's pure gold.

https://news.avclub.com/a-small-group-of-star-wars-fans-has-declared-rebellion-1827172702

Manifesto:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeyZB2JVMAALvqr.jpg:large

[Jockey]

Speaking of whiners, some very triggered Star Wars fans have declared "rebellion" on Lucasfilm and Disney because they new trilogy is apparently PC and pushing "an agenda of masculine inferiority."
Read the manifesto. It's pure gold.

https://news.avclub.com/a-small-group-of-star-wars-fans-has-declared-rebellion-1827172702

Manifesto:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeyZB2JVMAALvqr.jpg:large

That's funny. Maybe they can march with the fools who are boycotting Disney over their support of same-sex marriage.. Like I said, whiners gonna whine.

[MU82]

While the following scenario doesn't deal with MU, it most definitely deals with white privilege (and discrimination) and the way it is institutionalized:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/banking/article213862554.html?#emlnl=Business_Newsletter&id=bWlrZW5hZGVsQHNiY2dsb2JhbC5uZXQ=

The lead:

Bank of America intentionally failed to maintain homes it foreclosed on in black and Latino neighborhoods across dozens of U.S. markets, while consistently caring for similar properties in white neighborhoods, according to a federal lawsuit filed this week.

BoA is denying it, of course; they always do. They'll have a chance to prove if the case is without merit.

[mu03eng]

While the following scenario doesn't deal with MU, it most definitely deals with white privilege (and discrimination) and the way it is institutionalized:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/banking/article213862554.html?#emlnl=Business_Newsletter&id=bWlrZW5hZGVsQHNiY2dsb2JhbC5uZXQ=

The lead:

Bank of America intentionally failed to maintain homes it foreclosed on in black and Latino neighborhoods across dozens of U.S. markets, while consistently caring for similar properties in white neighborhoods, according to a federal lawsuit filed this week.

BoA is denying it, of course; they always do. They'll have a chance to prove if the case is without merit.

In all seriousness, welcome to racism buried in algorithms. Not intentional racism, but the data sets they are using doesn't normalize for race concerns which by default means race becomes a contributor to the output.

[MU82]

In all seriousness, welcome to racism buried in algorithms. Not intentional racism, but the data sets they are using doesn't normalize for race concerns which by default means race becomes a contributor to the output.

Yep. It's institutionalized and constantly seeps into everyday American life.

Each of us who is white won a lottery the day we were born to white parents. Those of us who have had successful lives maximized our lottery "winnings." Those of us who failed did what many lottery winners have done and frittered away our advantages. But we did win the lottery.

[mu03eng]

Speaking of whiners, some very triggered Star Wars fans have declared "rebellion" on Lucasfilm and Disney because they new trilogy is apparently PC and pushing "an agenda of masculine inferiority."
Read the manifesto. It's pure gold.

https://news.avclub.com/a-small-group-of-star-wars-fans-has-declared-rebellion-1827172702

Manifesto:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeyZB2JVMAALvqr.jpg:large

Yeah, if we're going to unpackage the Star Wars stuff we are going to end up down a very tangent path but it is a very interesting reflection of our current environment.

*Noted for the record, I am an unrepentant Star Wars nerd.

I think it's far to characterize Star Wars fandom into the following groups:
1. Outright racists, misogynist and any other ist that isn't white male
2. People who hate that Star Wars is "corporate"
3. People with legitimate creative objections to the direction of Star Wars or with particular characters, etc
4. People who like/love the current and past content

It's hard to tell what the breakdown of the groups is percentage wise but part of the issue is there are people in multiple camps and generically content creators/Lucasfilm are treating anyone in group 3 as if they are part of group 1. Mix in the complete $hitshow that is social media for these elements and it makes it a mess. If you removed the social media aspect, I truly believe things aren't nearly as toxic as they appear (or at least as universally toxic).