White Privilege at MU

[MU82]

You think it is a good idea to label people racist whenever one feels like?

Nope. I think it is a good idea to label people who act like racists as racists.

So when a reality-TV host says a U.S. born judge of Mexican heritage can't possibly be impartial, I agree with a prominent Wisconsin figure that it was "the textbook definition of a racist comment."

And who makes such racist comments?

Racists!

You know how 4ever (and maybe rocket, I can't remember exactly who said what) said something along the lines of if Brown didn't want to be tased, all he had to do was not park illegally? Well, something similar applies here.

If you don't want to be labeled a racist, don't say and do racist things.

Also, don't jump into a conversation about how blacks have been oppressed in America for hundreds of years by saying, "Yeah, but sometimes a white person has a rough time, too."

Personally, I like it when racists act like the racists they are. I like to know who the racists among us are.

[4everwarriors]

C'mon man, you know I didn't say that. I said the entire situation would have been avoided had Brown legally parked.

[GGGG]

C'mon man, you know I didn't say that. I said the entire situation would have been avoided had Brown legally parked.

Or if he stayed home. Or he if never played basketball. Or if his parents never had sex.

None of which is the point.

[4everwarriors]

Once again, not true. He contolled everything until he chose to violate the law. At that point, the officers were in control and we all have seen the consequences of that. This is not that hard to comprehend.

[Pakuni]

C'mon man, you know I didn't say that. I said the entire situation would have been avoided had Brown legally parked.

If that girl didn't drink, she wouldn't have been gang raped by the football team.

[WarriorDad]

This could go in a few threads here.  Hillbilly Elegy, JD Vance, NY Times best seller. Ron Howard is turning this into a movie.  Eye opening read and should be a wake up call.  It touches on many topics brought up here from generational divide, racial, poverty, opioid addiction all here in the US from a modern perspective. Focuses on an area of Southern Ohio, poor steel town through the eyes of the author who grew up there as a self proclaimed hillbilly to the marines, then to Yale. Addresses what is happened largely to poor, white males in this country, at least from their perspective and how they are reacting.  The cynicism that has embraced so many. 

Anyone read it?  I partly bring it up because this idea that so many are labeling people red necks or hillbillies or racists, it doesn't sting people anymore. It is a badge of honor for those people.  They are digging in even further, while others are jumping on their train in my opinion.  When everything and everyone is racist, it defeats the purpose and there is no hope to make folks see your view.

Strongly recommended as a view into what is going on in this country.  NY Times, New Yorker, others recommend it, as do publications for those of you on the other side. 

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-lives-of-poor-white-people

[GGGG]

Once again, not true. He contolled everything until he chose to violate the law. At that point, the officers were in control and we all have seen the consequences of that. This is not that hard to comprehend.

Once again, you don’t get it.

Yes he violated the law by parking in a handicapped spot at 2:00 AM because he ran in to get cold medicine. He should have been given a ticket for that.

The Police f*cked up way more. I mean the entire incident was 99% on them and 1% on Brown. And you’ve decided to spend a great deal of energy focusing on the 1%.

Hmmmm.  I wonder why???

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Once again, not true. He contolled everything until he chose to violate the law. At that point, the officers were in control and we all have seen the consequences of that. This is not that hard to comprehend.

I'll use an example from my own experience to contrast with Sterling Brown's experience.

Several years ago I was at a friend's wedding in the Chicagoland area. My wife had went to bed and I gave a friend a ride back to his nearby hotel.

I returned to my hotel, got out of my car, and saw a police car with it's lights on.  I wondered to myself what was going on.  Then officer got out and told me to get back in my car.

Turns out I was the reason the officer was there.  I was told I committed a minor traffic violation.  I had no idea the officer had followed me back to my hotel and into the parking lot.

It was after midnight and I was briefly questioned about the incident and what I had to drink that night.  The officer determined I was sober enough to drive and let me off with a warning for the other violation.

I have no idea how the officer would have treated me if I was black.  But if a black was in my situation and was pulled over by the wrong officer, he is much more likely to be detained, beaten, tased, or possibly shot to death.  And people like 4ever would be saying how it was that black man's fault for committing the traffic violation and getting out of his car.

That is the essence of white privilege.  A white man that breaks the law has a wider margin of error than a black man that breaks the law.

That doesn't even address the unfair treatment of law abiding black Americans.  There is a systemic problem in this country that needs to be fixed.

I recognize the dangers of police work.  I've been on police ride-alongs in high crime areas.  The overwhelming majority of police officers are good people.  Unfortunately, we as a society have not done enough to weed out the bad ones.

So what are we going to do about the bad ones?  That's the gist of this conversation. Yet some want to deflect attention from the officers and point the finger at Mr. Brown.

[jesmu84]

This could go in a few threads here.  Hillbilly Elegy, JD Vance, NY Times best seller. Ron Howard is turning this into a movie.  Eye opening read and should be a wake up call.  It touches on many topics brought up here from generational divide, racial, poverty, opioid addiction all here in the US from a modern perspective. Focuses on an area of Southern Ohio, poor steel town through the eyes of the author who grew up there as a self proclaimed hillbilly to the marines, then to Yale. Addresses what is happened largely to poor, white males in this country, at least from their perspective and how they are reacting.  The cynicism that has embraced so many. 

Anyone read it?  I partly bring it up because this idea that so many are labeling people red necks or hillbillies or racists, it doesn't sting people anymore. It is a badge of honor for those people.  They are digging in even further, while others are jumping on their train in my opinion.  When everything and everyone is racist, it defeats the purpose and there is no hope to make folks see your view.

Strongly recommended as a view into what is going on in this country.  NY Times, New Yorker, others recommend it, as do publications for those of you on the other side. 

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-lives-of-poor-white-people

1. A previous poster had similar viewpoints and pushed them regularly on the plight of whites in the US. Mostly as a deflection against obvious racism. Intriguing

2. I don't care if you're white, black, brown, red or green. Old, young. Rich, poor, middle class. Left, right. Teacher, doctor, police, homeless, actor, etc. Racism is bad. Racists are bad.

Red neck or hillbilly is not equivalent to racist. There are some that are racist. Just like every other subset of the population.

[jsglow]

I'll dip a toe in even though I've mostly avoided page after page of argument while essentially zero progress is made.

Of course Suntan is right in that the Brown case is a 99% - 1% issue.  Any reasonable person can see that.

What troubles me is that in today's era, too many folks seem so very committed to 'camps'.  Meaning that somehow everything is a zero sum game.  Seems to me that many (most) disagreements are like that today.  Just to take a position on the other side for illustrative purposes , who doesn't fully understand that Peter Strzok is a completely compromised political hack and that any of his work product is 'damaged' to the point of uselessness?

What ever happened to the days when day was day and night was night and we all (mostly) agreed on 'facts' but recognized that the facts might lead to differing views on what to do about them?  In that environment, learning and growth might be possible.   

It gets really tiresome arguing with folks who never get off their position that the sun rises in the west because they say so.  I guess my reaction mostly has been not to engage them.  But isn't our society weakened when that happens? 

[MU82]

I'll dip a toe in even though I've mostly avoided page after page of argument while essentially zero progress is made.

Of course Suntan is right in that the Brown case is a 99% - 1% issue.  Any reasonable person can see that.

What troubles me is that in today's era, too many folks seem so very committed to 'camps'.  Meaning that somehow everything is a zero sum game.  Seems to me that many (most) disagreements are like that today.  Just to take a position on the other side for illustrative purposes , who doesn't fully understand that Peter Strzok is a completely compromised political hack and that any of his work product is 'damaged' to the point of uselessness?

What ever happened to the days when day was day and night was night and we all (mostly) agreed on 'facts' but recognized that the facts might lead to differing views on what to do about them?  In that environment, learning and growth might be possible.   

It gets really tiresome arguing with folks who never get off their position that the sun rises in the west because they say so.  I guess my reaction mostly has been not to engage them.  But isn't our society weakened when that happens?

We are the Alternative Fact Nation now.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I'll dip a toe in even though I've mostly avoided page after page of argument while essentially zero progress is made.

Of course Suntan is right in that the Brown case is a 99% - 1% issue.  Any reasonable person can see that.

What troubles me is that in today's era, too many folks seem so very committed to 'camps'.  Meaning that somehow everything is a zero sum game.  Seems to me that many (most) disagreements are like that today.  Just to take a position on the other side for illustrative purposes , who doesn't fully understand that Peter Strzok is a completely compromised political hack and that any of his work product is 'damaged' to the point of uselessness?

What ever happened to the days when day was day and night was night and we all (mostly) agreed on 'facts' but recognized that the facts might lead to differing views on what to do about them?  In that environment, learning and growth might be possible.   

It gets really tiresome arguing with folks who never get off their position that the sun rises in the west because they say so.  I guess my reaction mostly has been not to engage them.  But isn't our society weakened when that happens?

I guess it depends on whether you are willing to accept that some of the things you accept as "facts" might be wrong?  Or, do you just want others to come around to what you think?   Because that's what it sounds like above.

[jsglow]

I guess it depends on whether you are willing to accept that some of the things you accept as "facts" might be wrong?  Or, do you just want others to come around to what you think?   Because that's what it sounds like above.

Really?  Aren't there things that are just obvious?  Aren't those things 'facts'?  And I think we should all be info to new info.

Let's change up the Brown situation for an example.  Had the police been responding to a call about a 20 something black man robbing the Walgreens the situation would be completely different.  The 'facts' would be different.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Really?  Aren't there things that are just obvious?  Aren't those things 'facts'?  And I think we should all be info to new info.

Let's change up the Brown situation for an example.  Had the police been responding to a call about a 20 something black man robbing the Walgreens the situation would be completely different.  The 'facts' would be different.

You would think some things are just obvious (like the size of one crowd versus another) yet here we are. 

[Lennys Tap]

You would think some things are just obvious (like the size of one crowd versus another) yet here we are.

I already find myself longing for the "good old days"when the lies being told and defended were as stupid (and innocuous) as the size of a crowd. The Trumpites and anti Trumpites have both graduated to bigger and better stuff.

[GGGG]

I already find myself longing for the "good old days"when the lies being told and defended were as stupid (and innocuous) as the size of a crowd. The Trumpites and anti Trumpites have both graduated to bigger and better stuff.

Lol. No.

[WarriorDad]

1. A previous poster had similar viewpoints and pushed them regularly on the plight of whites in the US. Mostly as a deflection against obvious racism. Intriguing

2. I don't care if you're white, black, brown, red or green. Old, young. Rich, poor, middle class. Left, right. Teacher, doctor, police, homeless, actor, etc. Racism is bad. Racists are bad.

Red neck or hillbilly is not equivalent to racist. There are some that are racist. Just like every other subset of the population.

Racism is more than bad.  I come from the world where if you want to convince someone of your argument you don't belittle them.  Both sides are so out of control, so distant, not like it was in my 20's and '30's.  With both sides screaming the other is racist or unAmerican, well it will not end well. 

[MU82]

I already find myself longing for the "good old days"when the lies being told and defended were as stupid (and innocuous) as the size of a crowd. The Trumpites and anti Trumpites have both graduated to bigger and better stuff.

Racism is more than bad.  I come from the world where if you want to convince someone of your argument you don't belittle them.  Both sides are so out of control, so distant, not like it was in my 20's and '30's.  With both sides screaming the other is racist or unAmerican, well it will not end well. 

Didn't think Lenny and chicos2 could agree on anything ... but IMHO both state false equivalence here.

[tower912]

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catholic-social-teaching/seven-themes-of-catholic-social-teaching.cfm

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/pope-urges-broader-concept-life-ethics-abortion-56143701

Now is a good time to remind ourselves of some basic tenets of Catholic social teaching.

Catholic social teaching favors the poor, the downtrodden, the bullied, the immigrant.     We are called to be our brothers' keepers and help the weakest.      Nowhere does Catholic social teaching favor the bullies, the racists, the rich, the comfortable.     The pope reminds us today that the Church's commitment to life does not end when a child is born.     That we must care as much about the child after it leaves the uterus, that we must give to and lift up the poor.    That the Catholic church protects all life.   

In the end, we are all cafeteria Catholics, as I know almost know one who celebrates all facets of Catholic social teaching equally.   But sometimes, when we start to lash out and marginalize, take a second and remember what we are called to be and who we are called to help. 

[brewcity77]

NM

[Lennys Tap]

Didn't think Lenny and chicos2 could agree on anything ... but IMHO both state false equivalence here.

Mike,

Unlike Chico, I don't long for the '50s, when "Negroes" knew their place and gays were deeply closeted or horribly bullied.

My opinion of Donald Trump has always been clear. I think he's equal parts charlatan and vulgarian who will (given the opportunity) expose himself for what he is and be convincingly rejected. The only way he becomes more than a 4 year asterisk is if he can convince enough independents that he is a victim of unfair/biased treatment from our institutions. How ironic (and sad) if the press, in their zeal to discredit someone who would have self destructed, unwittingly becomes his ally.

[Babybluejeans]

The only way he becomes more than a 4 year asterisk is if he can convince enough independents that he is a victim of unfair/biased treatment from our institutions. How ironic (and sad) if the press, in their zeal to discredit someone who would have self destructed, unwittingly becomes his ally.

I think there's some good truth to this. In my job, we refer to "passive winning." That is, let incompetent people trip over their own feet and you've won without trying. The problem is, when there's someone as brazenly crooked as him occupying the presidency, how can you ignore the constant corruption and not report on it?

[Pakuni]

I think there's some good truth to this. In my job, we refer to "passive winning." That is, let incompetent people trip over their own feet and you've won without trying. The problem is, when there's someone as brazenly crooked as him occupying the presidency, how can you ignore the constant corruption and not report on it?

1. You can't
2. If, God forbid, he gets re-elected, it will not be the fault of the press for reporting on his brazen crookedness. It will be the fault of the people who vote for him in spite of his brazen crookedness. The notion that the press or anyone else needs to reign in their criticism of him lest it upset his bigoted base is truly awful. I'd rather endure four more years of Trump than a neutered fourth estate.

[MU82]

This is an interesting discussion.

I, of course, will point to my recently changed tag line and sit it out.

I'll hang up and listen!

P.S.: Lenny ... do forgive me for putting you in the same sentence as chicos. I won't do it again!

[mu03eng]

1. You can't
2. If, God forbid, he gets re-elected, it will not be the fault of the press for reporting on his brazen crookedness. It will be the fault of the people who vote for him in spite of his brazen crookedness. The notion that the press or anyone else needs to reign in their criticism of him lest it upset his bigoted base is truly awful. I'd rather endure four more years of Trump than a neutered fourth estate.

I'd agree the "media" should not take any steps to adapt to the Trump base, they are conditioned to not believe them anyway.

Separate from that, I do think the media does need to be careful at balancing speed to market, accuracy, and amplification of stories. I've seen a tendency to report news breathlessy but the story either isn't as "important" as reported or might be inaccurate in certain details (especially the ones sourced by "administration officials" - 538 had a great article on some of the sourcing discussion). At some point Trump will not be in power and I don't want to media conditioned to tip the scales.

Maybe another way to put this, I think(especially in TV media) we are seeing a blurring of reporting and opining which I think could be problematic long term.