Mack to Louisville?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Maybe chicos warrior dad can tell the long lost tales of buzz?

[Goose]

Billy

I am hoping you are a 13 year old fan, but I am afraid that is not the case. Your argument is flawed twice, first off, the school made the crazy buyout with Buzz, not forced on them. Don’t make a deal that you cannot live with. Secondly, 15 million to protect an institution is sometimes the cost of doing business.

Bottom line, they did not fear the incident could damage the University as a whole, and opted to sleep with someone they did not respect over buying him out. Again, in mind, they must not have thought the incidents were big enough to damage the school.

[Lennys Tap]

Maybe chicos warrior dad can tell the long lost tales of buzz?

Or his alter ego - Billy Hoyle.

[warriorchick]

I agree, and many wanted him gone, but $15 million is a lot for MU. Esprcially when Buzz had the biggest donors in his back pocket.

The best strategy they had considering the financial implications was to drive him away.

Exactly.  Most of the time when you have an employee you want to get rid of, and you  know they are looking for another job, the best thing to do in the short term is to stand back and let them find it.  No severance, no legal problems, etc.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I feel like this thread is just full of wild guesses and misinformation at this point.

[Goose]

Warriorchick

Buzz was not an ordinary employee and hiding a sexual assault, bar fights is not a guy stealing paper clips.

[Galway Eagle]

Warriorchick

Buzz was not an ordinary employee and hiding a sexual assault, bar fights is not a guy stealing paper clips.

College kids get into bar fights and sneak into bars underage. That's not a big deal, what surprised me about that was every member of the team looked to be the aggressor on the video and nobody was level headed enough to pull back their friends.

The sexual assault ordeal was disgusting and truly made me embarrassed to tell people my school for a few months.

[Goose]

Piper

How long was Buzz coach after the sexual assault? Obviously, Marquette felt it was not the same issue you felt it was.

[Galway Eagle]

Piper

How long was Buzz coach after the sexual assault? Obviously, Marquette felt it was not the same issue you felt it was.

Goose

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your statement. But it seems like you're saying it was not a big deal because MU looked into it and didn't fire buzz. I wonder would you use that same logic with Lassar Nassar and MSU?

[Billy Hoyle]

Billy

I am hoping you are a 13 year old fan, but I am afraid that is not the case. Your argument is flawed twice, first off, the school made the crazy buyout with Buzz, not forced on them. Don’t make a deal that you cannot live with. Secondly, 15 million to protect an institution is sometimes the cost of doing business.

Bottom line, they did not fear the incident could damage the University as a whole, and opted to sleep with someone they did not respect over buying him out. Again, in mind, they must not have thought the incidents were big enough to damage the school.

I am not defending the university. I cut off all donations and support of MU while Buzz was there. I told Larry Williams straight up why. It wasn’t Williams who did it, the previous administration gave Buzz a contract with no buyout clauses. Unfortunately MU did not have the financial resources to get rid of him even though they wanted to. MU screwed themselves. Larry Williams was brought in to get rid of Buzz but couldn’t do it through dismissal.

Many times massive buyouts are paid by boosters. Buzz had the boosters in his back pocket. He knew that and flaunted it, especially when Pilar’s went down.

[WarriorDad]

I am not defending the university. I cut off all donations and support of MU while Buzz was there. I told Larry Williams straight up why. It wasn’t Williams who did it, the previous administration gave Buzz a contract with no buyout clauses. Unfortunately MU did not have the financial resources to get rid of him even though they wanted to. MU screwed themselves. Larry Williams was brought in to get rid of Buzz but couldn’t do it through dismissal.

Many times massive buyouts are paid by boosters. Buzz had the boosters in his back pocket. He knew that and flaunted it, especially when Pilar’s went down.

How do you know Larry Williams was brought in to get rid of Coach Williams?

[WarriorDad]

Pakuni,

Please reread my post. I cleary stated that DePaul was worse. De Paul was 8-44 in Buzz's last 3 years at MU and finished last in the Big East all three years. Tech was 10-42 and finished tied for last once and last twice. Not as bad (which I admitted) but comparable.

Tap seems right here, at least if recent history was 2 years.  Though records is not what I would look at since schedules matter.  Using a neutral source like KenPom the average rankings are 179 Depaul to 172 Va Tech.

However, a bit longer view would lean to Mr Pakuni.   Three years out Depaul 169, Va Tech 142.  Four years out, Depaul 176, Va Tech 117.   Five years out, Depaul 175 and Va Tech 102.

DePaul has been a dumpster fire for more than a decade. Va Tech, to Mr. Pakuni's point, was pretty good only a few years before coach Williams took over.  Coach Williams knew Va Tech had some decent recent past which makes the rebuild easier.

Ken Pom Ratings
               depaul   Va Tech
2007         50       37
2008         114       34
2009         206       72
2010        170       47
2011         197       40
2012         150       83
2013         174       169
2014         183       174

[Goose]

Billy

I hold Marquette and their donors in far higher regard to agree with you. If you believe that all donors were Buzz’s pocket, than MU was a mini-Louisville, minus an NC.

I might have my gripes with decisions made by the BOT, but not being prepared to buyout a bad apple had to be planned for. For the record, I said when Buzz was hired they did not do their homework and were opening themselves up for potential trouble.

[Pakuni]

Tap seems right here, at least if recent history was 2 years.  Though records is not what I would look at since schedules matter.  Using a neutral source like KenPom the average rankings are 179 Depaul to 172 Va Tech.

However, a bit longer view would lean to Mr Pakuni.   Three years out Depaul 169, Va Tech 142.  Four years out, Depaul 176, Va Tech 117.   Five years out, Depaul 175 and Va Tech 102.

DePaul has been a dumpster fire for more than a decade. Va Tech, to Mr. Pakuni's point, was pretty good only a few years before coach Williams took over.  Coach Williams knew Va Tech had some decent recent past which makes the rebuild easier.

Ken Pom Ratings
               depaul   Va Tech
2007         50       37
2008         114       34
2009         206       72
2010        170       47
2011         197       40
2012         150       83
2013         174       169
2014         183       174

I'm hesitant to re-hash this, but the post to which I responded to from Lenny stated "Virginia Tech pre Buzz was DePaul minus the Meyer years. One NCAA appearance in 10 years, two in 28." Given those parameters, I was presuming he didn't mean "Virginia Tech in the two seasons pre Buzz, and only the two seasons pre Buzz" so I took a longer view and looked back from the time they joined the ACC.
If Lenny did indeed mean "Virginia Tech in the two seasons pre Buzz, and only the two seasons pre Buzz," then he's right - they did have two DePaul-like seasons. I tend to think evaluating the history of a program requires looking beyond a two-year window, but that's me.

Also, UNC was a trash program before Roy Williams (see: Matt Doherty's last two years).

[vogue65]

Not going to get into this battle but I do chuckle over the constant talking about VaTech.  As someone who spends a fair bit of time in Blacksburg for work, and works with an untold amount of Tech grads,  Scoop talks more about their B-Ball program than they do.  Half of them don't even think about their basketball program until March rolls around.  And exiting in the first round means it is short lived.

It's called OCD.  They rarely discuss any other BE team or even ND.  It is all about VT and Depaul, it seems it's all we know.   I'm with you, don't get involved, it's bad for the AFib.

[MU82]

Mack officially was replaced by his longtime assistant, Travis Steele.

If form holds with X (and Butler), Steele will do a fine job.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm hesitant to re-hash this, but the post to which I responded to from Lenny stated "Virginia Tech pre Buzz was DePaul minus the Meyer years. One NCAA appearance in 10 years, two in 28." Given those parameters, I was presuming he didn't mean "Virginia Tech in the two seasons pre Buzz, and only the two seasons pre Buzz" so I took a longer view and looked back from the time they joined the ACC.
If Lenny did indeed mean "Virginia Tech in the two seasons pre Buzz, and only the two seasons pre Buzz," then he's right - they did have two DePaul-like seasons. I tend to think evaluating the history of a program requires looking beyond a two-year window, but that's me.

Also, UNC was a trash program before Roy Williams (see: Matt Doherty's last two years).

Last three years, not two. Last place, last place and tied for last place. Conference records in those seasons were 2-18, 4-14, 4-12. Almost Depaul, not quite (as I have now said 3 times. Their previous 15 years they made the NCAA tournament 1 time. If you think that parallels UNC closer than DePaul we'll agree to disagree.

[WarriorDad]

Last three years, not two. Last place, last place and tied for last place. Conference records in those seasons were 2-18, 4-14, 4-12. Almost Depaul, not quite (as I have now said 3 times. Their previous 15 years they made the NCAA tournament 1 time. If you think that parallels UNC closer than DePaul we'll agree to disagree.

Three years before Coach Williams arrived at Va Tech, the Hokies went 16-17 while Depaul was 12-19.   Va tech was ranked 83rd, Depaul 150th.

[Lennys Tap]

Three years before Coach Williams arrived at Va Tech, the Hokies went 16-17 while Depaul was 12-19.   Va tech was ranked 83rd, Depaul 150th.

Yes, 16-17, 4-12 in the ACC, tied for last. The three years before Buzz took over they won 10 conference game and lost 44. So bad, then worse, then awful - the program had gone from mediocre to dumpster fire - with very little in their history to suggest much of a rebound.

People here like to complain about the program Wojo inherited - a program whose 3 most recent season included conference records of 9-9, 14-4 and 14-4 and a S16 and an E8 - and a very rich history. The two situations weren't close.

[Benny B]

In an alternative reality, Buzz didn't leave MU for VTI. Buzz had relative success and then left for UL.

Yeah... but that's also the reality where Buzz eats his own poop.

[MU82]

I feel like this thread is just full of wild guesses and misinformation at this point.

Several Scoopers majored in Wild Guesses and Misinformation during their MU daze!