First House

[MU82]

When we moved to NC, my wife and I looked at 120 houses. And several of them, we looked at multiple times.

THAT, my friend, was overkill!

We ended up with a nice place, but if I had it to do again, I would have handled it differently.

[dgies9156]

Unleash, don’t throw away hundreds for nothing. Find a decent real estate agent and roll.

Absolutely disagree with this. If an attorney does his or her job, they read the contracts and explain what they mean.

They double check the wording and are willing to contest "standard language" that is not client-friendly. They can read what the bank sends over and make sure it means what it says. Your attorney represents you. Your real estate agent represents the money you are going to pay for the house and for his or her fee.

One thing you need to at closing though is READ THE CONTRACT. Ask for everything in advance and make sure you are comfortable with it. On our home we purchased four years ago in Florida (yes, it is a second home in God's Waiting Room), we drove our real estate agent nuts because we read everything (the attorney did not send it in advance) and closing took about two hours.

We found a major glitch in "standard secondary market language" that would have given the lender an inadvertent call option if we made our Florida home our primary residence. We called the lender out on it but were between a rock and hard place. We had a very large escrow amount at risk if we called off the transaction and the lender would not modify.

P.S. -- I'm not an attorney. Just someone who distrusts real estate agents!

[Jay Bee]

Absolutely disagree with this. If an attorney does his or her job, they read the contracts and explain what they mean.

They double check the wording and are willing to contest "standard language" that is not client-friendly. They can read what the bank sends over and make sure it means what it says. Your attorney represents you. Your real estate agent represents the money you are going to pay for the house and for his or her fee.

One thing you need to at closing though is READ THE CONTRACT. Ask for everything in advance and make sure you are comfortable with it. On our home we purchased four years ago in Florida (yes, it is a second home in God's Waiting Room), we drove our real estate agent nuts because we read everything (the attorney did not send it in advance) and closing took about two hours.

We found a major glitch in "standard secondary market language" that would have given the lender an inadvertent call option if we made our Florida home our primary residence. We called the lender out on it but were between a rock and hard place. We had a very large escrow amount at risk if we called off the transaction and the lender would not modify.

P.S. -- I'm not an attorney. Just someone who distrusts real estate agents!

You're all over the place with this story. Doesn't make sense.

Unleash aint gone get no dang attorney

[dgies9156]

You're all over the place with this story. Doesn't make sense.

Unleash aint gone get no dang attorney

Let's clarify using grade school language for the Speech Majors.

1) Real estate agents are out for real estate agents.
    a) Real estate agents don't represent you.
    b) Real estate agents don't have law degrees.
    c) Real estate agents don't have finance degrees either.
2) Attorneys can read contracts and, if experienced, can tell you what they mean.
    a) An attorney will help you decide whether terms and conditions are "acceptable risk" to you.
3) Despite this, never trust anyone.
    a) The real estate agent doesn't have to live with what you bought after it is over.
4) Read everything yourself and use your attorney as a resource to explain to you what the contract means.

Jaybee, what I don't understand is this. You're spending $250,000 or more on a home (less if you live in a lower cost market). You're committing more of your family wealth into this asset than anything else.

All this and you're too cost-conscious to have an independent, knowledgeable third party read your contract and your loan agreements?

Dude, that's a big reason why we ended up with the housing crisis of 2008 to 2011. I know, I helped clean it up at some banks.

[WarriorDad]

All good advice here.  We used to live on the east side, also had a place in Wauwatosa before we left the state.  Don't become house poor and be a slave to your mortgage.  School district huge.  Buying the smallest house in neighborhood is a decent strategy for some. 

Get an idea of what people in the neighborhood are doing.  Are they renovating the homes, putting in new roofs, replacing things that need replaced?  Or is it an old neighborhood with old owners that are just sitting on it, that may give you an idea how long it will take for an older hood to turnover with new life and improvements.

Good luck. It's stressful as hell at first, and then it just becomes second nature. Damn near had a panic attack signing what felt like 500 documents and looking at the total amount paid over 30 years.

[Jay Bee]

Let's clarify using grade school language for the Speech Majors.

1) Real estate agents are out for real estate agents.
    a) Real estate agents don't represent you.
    b) Real estate agents don't have law degrees.
    c) Real estate agents don't have finance degrees either.
2) Attorneys can read contracts and, if experienced, can tell you what they mean.
    a) An attorney will help you decide whether terms and conditions are "acceptable risk" to you.
3) Despite this, never trust anyone.
    a) The real estate agent doesn't have to live with what you bought after it is over.
4) Read everything yourself and use your attorney as a resource to explain to you what the contract means.

Jaybee, what I don't understand is this. You're spending $250,000 or more on a home (less if you live in a lower cost market). You're committing more of your family wealth into this asset than anything else.

All this and you're too cost-conscious to have an independent, knowledgeable third party read your contract and your loan agreements?

Dude, that's a big reason why we ended up with the housing crisis of 2008 to 2011. I know, I helped clean it up at some banks.

The gentlemen involved is shopping for a house at a price of ~$140k, not $250k or more.

You're arguing for an attorney as a "peace of mind" short-term insurance policy. The likelihood of being "saved" is minimal for Unleash. Waste of time and money.

Failure to hire attorneys to read loan documents and purchase agreements didn't create the housing crises. Dummies spending "money" on things they should not have created it. And now you want them to do it some more.

PS - Real estate agents DO represent you and some agents do have law and/or finance degrees.

[dgies9156]

Failure to hire attorneys to read loan documents and purchase agreements didn't create the housing crises. Dummies spending "money" on things they should not have created it. And now you want them to do it some more.

PS - Real estate agents DO represent you and some agents do have law and/or finance degrees.

On the first one -- wrong. Ever heard of Payment Option ARMs? The housing crisis of 2008 started in the Inland Empire and the Central Valley of California because the real estate agents pushed a promise that housing values would never go down. Neg Am pushed the value of the loan far higher than the value of the house.

Real estate agents peddled properties financed with sub-prime mortgages to people who had no clue what they were buying, how the loans refinanced or frankly what their obligations were. Too many were like the agent my wife and I had when we went to buy our first home and were shown a home that was outside our price range. "Let the bank worry about it," the Realtor said (and, yes, he was a Realtor).

We have the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau for a reason and this is a big part of it!

[Jay Bee]

On the first one -- wrong. Ever heard of Payment Option ARMs? The housing crisis of 2008 started in the Inland Empire and the Central Valley of California because the real estate agents pushed a promise that housing values would never go down. Neg Am pushed the value of the loan far higher than the value of the house.

Real estate agents peddled properties financed with sub-prime mortgages to people who had no clue what they were buying, how the loans refinanced or frankly what their obligations were. Too many were like the agent my wife and I had when we went to buy our first home and were shown a home that was outside our price range. "Let the bank worry about it," the Realtor said (and, yes, he was a Realtor).

We have the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau for a reason and this is a big part of it!

Like I said... it was caused by dummies.

[#UnleashSean]

Had my first heart attack. Was at a 4 bed 1 bath 60k place that needed a ton of renovation (Structurally fine, just trashed) went to the basement where the lights weren't working. Girlfriend and the 2 realtors say they see something in a hole in the corner, I was about 4 feet away and looked in it with my phone flashlight. What stared back at me was a giant owl, yes a GOD DAM OWL!. I let out a shriek and before I knew it all 3 of the girls were upstairs and refused to come back down. After I realized it was a taxidermy owl I laughed for about 5 minutes straight. After that, all 3 girls refused to explore the house anymore.

[Jay Bee]

Real talk, highly recommend multiple bathrooms. Ideally one is “hidden” for crazy dumps while wifey is home

[🏀]

Real talk, highly recommend multiple bathrooms. Ideally one is “hidden” for crazy dumps while wifey is home

The basement is for pooping.

[4everwarriors]

Didn't bye nothin' tadey, hey?

[rocket surgeon]

one call, that’s all, enn’a Hey?

[MU82]

Had my first heart attack. Was at a 4 bed 1 bath 60k place that needed a ton of renovation (Structurally fine, just trashed) went to the basement where the lights weren't working. Girlfriend and the 2 realtors say they see something in a hole in the corner, I was about 4 feet away and looked in it with my phone flashlight. What stared back at me was a giant owl, yes a GOD DAM OWL!. I let out a shriek and before I knew it all 3 of the girls were upstairs and refused to come back down. After I realized it was a taxidermy owl I laughed for about 5 minutes straight. After that, all 3 girls refused to explore the house anymore.

Whooooo screamed like a little girl?

That's a hilarious story. Can't believe you didn't buy the house!!

[tower912]

Buying our first (and ultimately only until retirement) house.    We had been through several.    My wife walks into what is currently our house and said in the first 10 seconds, in front of the previous owners, "this is the one.   I want this one."     .....and there went the negotiating leverage.     But, like everything else with us, we made it work.   

[Benny B]

I won't go into the fine detail here because it would probably land me in an ARDC hearing, but from my own experience - which includes over 100 residential closings during the summer of 2005 - if you are buying or selling real estate in the Chicago area, you absolutely have to have an attorney.  I have personally seen what happens to the side that doesn't engage an attorney at the closing (if not immediately after the contract is signed), and trust me, they get railroaded every time.

Most attorneys work for a flat fee (usually around $300-400), which includes contract review, modifications (if necessary) and the in-person work at the closing... so let's put this in context: if you're using a broker, you're probably paying that person - either directly or indirectly - somewhere between $6,000-13,000.  If the deal doesn't close, nobody gets paid... so who do you think is going to better represent your interests if things go south?  Will it be the guy/gal who might not be sitting at another closing table for a few weeks (or months) or the guy/gal who risks throwing away 7+ years of college and law school for breaching a fiduciary duty?

Other states/locales are different.  Each has their own custom; in Chicago, it is overwhelmingly customary to have an attorney at the closing table.  Period.



That being said, the #1 rule of home-buying is DON'T FALL IN LOVE (*cough* tower).  My wife and I wrote 14 offers on 12 different homes before we landed the house we still have today (and have no intention of leaving anytime soon).  I interviewed 3 tenant brokers to help us out, and the first two were eliminated because they both touted their negotiation prowess, essentially guaranteeing that we would "win" the negotiations for the first house we picked.  The third broker sold us on us finding the right house, even if it meant taking us through every listing in the county (which at times it seemed like he was).  When the deal fell through or our offer wasn't accepted, we moved on to the next one.  It was a much more time consuming process, but our patience ensured that not only would we not overpay for anything, but as it turned out, we ended up in a situation where our purchased comped out 20% below market within 90 days of closing.

[#UnleashSean]

I believe I've narrowed it down to three. (at least for the Milwaukee area) 2 homes and 1 duplex ranging from 120k to 170k

[muwarrior69]

I won't go into the fine detail here because it would probably land me in an ARDC hearing, but from my own experience - which includes over 100 residential closings during the summer of 2005 - if you are buying or selling real estate in the Chicago area, you absolutely have to have an attorney.  I have personally seen what happens to the side that doesn't engage an attorney at the closing (if not immediately after the contract is signed), and trust me, they get railroaded every time.

Most attorneys work for a flat fee (usually around $300-400), which includes contract review, modifications (if necessary) and the in-person work at the closing... so let's put this in context: if you're using a broker, you're probably paying that person - either directly or indirectly - somewhere between $6,000-13,000.  If the deal doesn't close, nobody gets paid... so who do you think is going to better represent your interests if things go south?  Will it be the guy/gal who might not be sitting at another closing table for a few weeks (or months) or the guy/gal who risks throwing away 7+ years of college and law school for breaching a fiduciary duty?

Other states/locales are different.  Each has their own custom; in Chicago, it is overwhelmingly customary to have an attorney at the closing table.  Period.



That being said, the #1 rule of home-buying is DON'T FALL IN LOVE (*cough* tower).  My wife and I wrote 14 offers on 12 different homes before we landed the house we still have today (and have no intention of leaving anytime soon).  I interviewed 3 tenant brokers to help us out, and the first two were eliminated because they both touted their negotiation prowess, essentially guaranteeing that we would "win" the negotiations for the first house we picked.  The third broker sold us on us finding the right house, even if it meant taking us through every listing in the county (which at times it seemed like he was).  When the deal fell through or our offer wasn't accepted, we moved on to the next one.  It was a much more time consuming process, but our patience ensured that not only would we not overpay for anything, but as it turned out, we ended up in a situation where our purchased comped out 20% below market within 90 days of closing.

Wow! Here in Jersey an attorney will usually charge around 1200-1500.

[Jockey]

The gentlemen involved is shopping for a house at a price of ~$140k, not $250k or more.

You're arguing for an attorney as a "peace of mind" short-term insurance policy. The likelihood of being "saved" is minimal for Unleash. Waste of time and money.

Failure to hire attorneys to read loan documents and purchase agreements didn't create the housing crises. Dummies spending "money" on things they should not have created it. And now you want them to do it some more.

PS - Real estate agents DO represent you and some agents do have law and/or finance degrees.

Hurts me to say this, but I agree with JB 100% here.

[Coleman]

This guy is doubling down on it, but I’d be curious what % we’d see if Scoopers Houses bought... and attorneys used

Just stupid and unusual advice

I used an attorney. I was told that is common practice in Illinois. I think it really depends by state.

It was $500 flat fee and he was actually quite helpful for a first time buyer. There was a ton of negotiation and the attorney ran point. He actually paid for himself by getting us a $1000 credit at closing because of an upcoming special assessment that was disclosed just prior to closing. Could I have negotiated that myself? Sure, I suppose. Is it likely that I would have, as a first time homebuyer? Doubtful.

Closing was super smooth. The other side had an attorney. I would not want to be the one side that didn't while the other did.

If you live in a state where hardly anyone uses an attorney, you probably don't need one. I wouldn't be caught dead without one in Illinois. Biggest investment of my life, and I'm going to skimp on $500?

[Coleman]

Let's clarify using grade school language for the Speech Majors.

1) Real estate agents are out for real estate agents.
    a) Real estate agents don't represent you.
    b) Real estate agents don't have law degrees.
    c) Real estate agents don't have finance degrees either.
2) Attorneys can read contracts and, if experienced, can tell you what they mean.
    a) An attorney will help you decide whether terms and conditions are "acceptable risk" to you.
3) Despite this, never trust anyone.
    a) The real estate agent doesn't have to live with what you bought after it is over.
4) Read everything yourself and use your attorney as a resource to explain to you what the contract means.

Jaybee, what I don't understand is this. You're spending $250,000 or more on a home (less if you live in a lower cost market). You're committing more of your family wealth into this asset than anything else.

All this and you're too cost-conscious to have an independent, knowledgeable third party read your contract and your loan agreements?

Dude, that's a big reason why we ended up with the housing crisis of 2008 to 2011. I know, I helped clean it up at some banks.

This.

[Lighthouse 84]

I used an attorney. I was told that is common practice in Illinois. I think it really depends by state.

It was $500 flat fee and he was actually quite helpful for a first time buyer. There was a ton of negotiation and the attorney ran point. He actually paid for himself by getting us a $1000 credit at closing because of an upcoming special assessment that was disclosed just prior to closing. Could I have negotiated that myself? Sure, I suppose. Is it likely that I would have, as a first time homebuyer? Doubtful.

Closing was super smooth. The other side had an attorney. I would not want to be the one side that didn't while the other did.

If you live in a state where hardly anyone uses an attorney, you probably don't need one. I wouldn't be caught dead without one in Illinois. Biggest investment of my life, and I'm going to skimp on $500?

  This.  Many states are "escrow" states, where the title company acts as the escrow agent AND prepares documents on behalf of the seller.  But they don't represent either the seller or the buyer.  In Illinois, title companies don't, and can't, prepare documents of conveyance.  To not spend the $400-$500 (average) that it takes to hire a lawyer, you're being foolish.  As someone who does hundreds of closings per year for the last 31 years, I've seen way too many problems that could have been avoided by each side having a lawyer.

[rocket surgeon]

You mentioned Waukesha in your initial post-have you looked there?  I’ve lived there for 30 years-love it.  Close to everything.  A lot of options including shopping, safety, schools, proximity to Milwaukee and relatively reasonable property taxes.  I’d also check out new Berlin, butler, Germantown and Menominee falls

[dgies9156]

I wouldn't be caught dead without one in Illinois. Biggest investment of my life, and I'm going to skimp on $500?

Here you go. You hit the nail on the head.

Assuming a $150,000 house and a $500 legal fee, your legal costs are 0.33 percent of the cost of the house. Most buyers are paying more than that for the new flat screen television that will go in the family room.

Next thing I hear is that a buyer doesn't need to pay for a home inspection either!

[jsglow]

Here you go. You hit the nail on the head.

Assuming a $150,000 house and a $500 legal fee, your legal costs are 0.33 percent of the cost of the house. Most buyers are paying more than that for the new flat screen television that will go in the family room.

Next thing I hear is that a buyer doesn't need to pay for a home inspection either!

Yep.  A little on an attorney up front can possibly save a lot on an attorney later.  I'd never do a real estate deal without one.