MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: #UnleashSean on February 28, 2018, 09:58:28 AM
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Planning on soon buying my first house around the Milwaukee area (Waukesha, Milwaukee, Wauwatosa, Bayview, Cudahy, St Francis, etc). The one place I have determined 100% to not move to is West Allis. I'm looking for either a 2 or 3 bedroom place, with a nice finished or unfinished basement to put a bar and a giant TV for those big games. I'm budgeting for 140kish to buy.
Any tips or tricks I should look into from all you old people who have had a house for years?
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Buy the worst house in a good neighborhood. As you can afford to make improvements you will achieve a better ROI.
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What part of town do you work? Or isn't that an issue?
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Out of curiosity, and maybe this is because I don't know Milwaukee as much as I used to, but why potentially Cudahy and not West Allis?
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What part of town do you work? Or isn't that an issue?
I work at a school in Wauwatosa as a counselor at the moment, close to the zoo, so getting there hasn't been too rough from the two places I split time at now.
Out of curiosity, and maybe this is because I don't know Milwaukee as much as I used to, but why potentially Cudahy and not West Allis?
From what I've seen from friends while renting and while looking at housing prices over the years, West Allis is slowly falling apart and becoming a trash heap. From my time spent there I've had no interactions that have changed my mind. (Including looking at some "high end" apartments there)
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I work at a school in Wauwatosa as a counselor at the moment, close to the zoo, so getting there hasn't been too rough from the two places I split time at now.
From what I've seen from friends while renting and while looking at housing prices over the years, West Allis is slowly falling apart and becoming a trash heap. From my time spent there I've had no interactions that have changed my mind. (Including looking at some "high end" apartments there)
Agree and Cudahy is getting better. Question: Married with kids? School district mattas.
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From what I've seen from friends while renting and while looking at housing prices over the years, West Allis is slowly falling apart and becoming a trash heap. From my time spent there I've had no interactions that have changed my mind. (Including looking at some "high end" apartments there)
OK, I generally agree with that, but that doesn't describe Cudahy too?
Anyway, the neighborhood that I always thought was underrated was the one around Alverno down off 43rd Street.
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Planning on soon buying my first house around the Milwaukee area (Waukesha, Milwaukee, Wauwatosa, Bayview, Cudahy, St Francis, etc). The one place I have determined 100% to not move to is West Allis. I'm looking for either a 2 or 3 bedroom place, with a nice finished or unfinished basement to put a bar and a giant TV for those big games. I'm budgeting for 140kish to buy.
Any tips or tricks I should look into from all you old people who have had a house for years?
My only advice would be to look at a lot of houses to get a good idea of what you want and prices of houses. I spent over a year looking when I bought my first house and went through several realtors till I found one who would work with me rather that just try to sell me on every new place on the market.
But buying a first house is stressful. It will pass.
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Agree and Cudahy is getting better. Question: Married with kids? School district mattas.
Married with kids or not, school district mattas. Resale is much better with a good school district.
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Married with kids or not, school district mattas. Resale is much better with a good school district.
Unless you want an urban condo/townhouse, true. But lifestage comes into play.
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Not sure if it applies to u, but I know ZFB had to make sure his crib (also $140k) was at least 4 blocks from any schools or parks
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Married with kids or not, school district mattas. Resale is much better with a good school district.
But you also get more house for the money when you buy in.
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But you also get more house for the money when you buy in.
Absolutely but if you are an empty nester, location matters over kids, if there are no kids planned or in the rear view mirror, schools are less important. For example, the West Loop right now is on fire yet the schools suck. But if you are buying for kids, the West Loop location is not a plus.
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If you're looking in the St. Francis and Cudahy areas, don't rule out Oak Creek. It's not that much farther from where you work, and there are plenty of areas with quick highway access that would help with the commute. It's a growing suburb, so prices have gone up in recent years, but there are still plenty of homes in your price range. In the last few years, a bunch of new businesses and restaurants have opened up, and the schools are pretty good for the area too. Taxes aren't as low as Waukesha county, but they're better than in Tosa or Milwaukee.
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If you're looking in the St. Francis and Cudahy areas, don't rule out Oak Creek. It's not that much farther from where you work, and there are plenty of areas with quick highway access that would help with the commute. It's a growing suburb, so prices have gone up in recent years, but there are still plenty of homes in your price range. In the last few years, a bunch of new businesses and restaurants have opened up, and the schools are pretty good for the area too. Taxes aren't as low as Waukesha county, but they're better than in Tosa or Milwaukee.
Oak Creek is close to On The Border too.
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'Tosa is a good place to start your search. The area between Center Street, south to Menomonee River Parkway should have plenty of starter homes. The school district is pretty good, and if private school is your thing, there are very good Catholic and Lutheran and Montessori schools in that area. I don't agree with your assessment of West Allis (especially near Greenfield Park and the area near KK Parkway), but I'm not going to try and change your mind either.
Bay View is very hot now, and has been for several years. I personally believe you will pay a premium to settle there. Plus there are too many hipsters for my taste. St. Francis and Cudahy are intriguing areas, and you might do very well there. And Oak Creek is exploding, but the travel time to your job then gets to be an issue.
As Jockey indicated, buying your first house can be very stressful, but once you take the plunge, it's funny how it all works out. Don't fall in love with a place that you can't afford.
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My little brother lived right near the Milwaukee/Tosa line in this neighborhood:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/2800+N+Lefeber+Ave,+Milwaukee,+WI+53210/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x88051b5018644961:0xe20d87eaa7c899e?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjs9iHmsnZAhWPyVMKHblTBoYQ8gEIKjAA
He loved it and only moved because his wife wanted a bigger home. They ended up getting divorced and he wishes he were back there!
I thought the neighborhood was really cute and well-kept. The homes were older but looked to be in good shape, and people seemed to take a lot of pride in their yards, etc.
I have no idea what houses there go for now, nor do I know much about the schools.
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Agree and Cudahy is getting better. Question: Married with kids? School district mattas.
No kids, not married yet. Still sounds like I should look for a decent school district though.
Not sure if it applies to u, but I know ZFB had to make sure his crib (also $140k) was at least 4 blocks from any schools or parks
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....
If you're looking in the St. Francis and Cudahy areas, don't rule out Oak Creek. It's not that much farther from where you work, and there are plenty of areas with quick highway access that would help with the commute. It's a growing suburb, so prices have gone up in recent years, but there are still plenty of homes in your price range. In the last few years, a bunch of new businesses and restaurants have opened up, and the schools are pretty good for the area too. Taxes aren't as low as Waukesha county, but they're better than in Tosa or Milwaukee.
I'll definitely have to look towards Oak Creek.
My little brother lived right near the Milwaukee/Tosa line in this neighborhood:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/2800+N+Lefeber+Ave,+Milwaukee,+WI+53210/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x88051b5018644961:0xe20d87eaa7c899e?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjs9iHmsnZAhWPyVMKHblTBoYQ8gEIKjAA
He loved it and only moved because his wife wanted a bigger home. They ended up getting divorced and he wishes he were back there!
I thought the neighborhood was really cute and well-kept. The homes were older but looked to be in good shape, and people seemed to take a lot of pride in their yards, etc.
I have no idea what houses there go for now, nor do I know much about the schools.
Just looked at the area, the only houses for sale are out of my price range by about 50k =/
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Agree and Cudahy is getting better. Question: Married with kids? School district mattas.
My now-wife and I lived in Cudahy (bought a townhouse as first property purchase) after renting in Bayview for several years out of college. Our part of Cudahy (northern, near Layton) was nice, if not boring. Quiet, never felt unsafe. Would recommend for people in the millennial generation who just want to build up the equity pre-kids.
After having our first, we recently purchased back into Bayview (interest in the Montessori schools that are part of MPS, willingness to pay for private if that doesn't work out), and we couldn't be happier back in our favorite little neighborhood. There are certainly less desirable places in Bayview and people broadly construe what is actually Bayview, but if you're within a mile or so east or south of the heart of Bayview (defined by yours truly as Sugar Maple), you're in a pretty good area.
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Just looked at the area, the only houses for sale are out of my price range by about 50k =/
Sorry to hear that. I remember my bro saying houses had appreciated there pretty good.
I wish you good luck. Getting that first house is always an exciting step to feeling like a real adult! Keep us posted with what you decide.
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The Palm Tavern is for sale (310K IIRC) and includes living quarters, maybe rent the bar to some one else?
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Tosa could be tough on that budget. Super hot area. I'd maybe look at the areas that are technically Milwaukee, but just outside of the Tosa limits (North of Burleigh, South of Bluemound, east of Hawley, etc.) Usually nice houses without the premium.
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If I ever move back to Milwaukee, I'll have to live near Leon's on S 27th so I could walk there 5x a week. Then I can die fat and happy.
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My little brother lived right near the Milwaukee/Tosa line in this neighborhood:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/2800+N+Lefeber+Ave,+Milwaukee,+WI+53210/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x88051b5018644961:0xe20d87eaa7c899e?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjs9iHmsnZAhWPyVMKHblTBoYQ8gEIKjAA
He loved it and only moved because his wife wanted a bigger home. They ended up getting divorced and he wishes he were back there!
I thought the neighborhood was really cute and well-kept. The homes were older but looked to be in good shape, and people seemed to take a lot of pride in their yards, etc.
I have no idea what houses there go for now, nor do I know much about the schools.
Similar set up in terms of being by tosa but not in tosa (so cheaper) is just south of Bluemound in the 70s-80s. I had a two bedroom in that area years ago, good starter
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Oak Creek is close to On The Border too.
Yeah, it's only 6 minutes from my pla.... er, uh, yeah, I heard that too.
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If I ever move back to Milwaukee, I'll have to live near Leon's on S 27th so I could walk there 5x a week. Then I can die fat and happy.
If I can find a spot within walking to real chili or Docs I may die within two years.
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Good luck in your house search. I bought my first house 2 years ago in Fox Point. I agree with the advice you've been given. School districts are a big deal even if you aren't married or have kids.
I'd like to sell my house just due to the insane amount in taxes I pay, but I get a nice refund at the end of the year when I file my income taxes.
I know you didn't mention the fox point area, but you can get a decent house for the 160k range, it would just need a lot of updating.
Good luck
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Good luck in your house search. I bought my first house 2 years ago in Fox Point. I agree with the advice you've been given. School districts are a big deal even if you aren't married or have kids.
I'd like to sell my house just due to the insane amount in taxes I pay, but I get a nice refund at the end of the year when I file my income taxes.
I know you didn't mention the fox point area, but you can get a decent house for the 160k range, it would just need a lot of updating.
Good luck
In Fox Point? Wow. I remember just super expensive houses there back in the day.
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I'd like to sell my house just due to the insane amount in taxes I pay, but I get a nice refund at the end of the year when I file my income taxes.
A nice refund every year is another way of saying, “I did a poor job planning and gave governments an interest free loan!” Odd thing to celebrate, my man.
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My little brother lives around 72 and Locust near Enderis Park. Bought a nice little house that needed some tlc. Great area. I live in the burbs now, but my sons go to Milwaukee Montessori School. It’s exceptional. Good luck!
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My little brother lives around 72 and Locust near Enderis Park. Bought a nice little house that needed some tlc. Great area. I live in the burbs now, but my sons go to Milwaukee Montessori School. It’s exceptional. Good luck!
Are you one of those monsters who clogs the road by the church from 245 to 330?
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For your first house you should realize this is your starter house and you should view it as such. You're most likely only staying 2-5 years. You should focus on what you get the most return and equity on in that amount time. Try and pick neighborhoods where people are moving to and will be the next hot place to live. The reason you do this is that when you sell in that 2-5 years you can make a boat load of cash and apply that towards your next down payment.
Look for places that are structurally really good but need updating if you can stomach it. It's an easy place to make sweat equity work for you. Too bad the new tax laws though don't let you take that interest off your taxes any more. Just remember kitchens and bathrooms sell places. So if you can do the flip on that part you can get a huge amount of equity.
Key things I would also have:
1) A good really really good agent. Don't just use your friends unless they are a top 10% type agent. At least in Chicago most of the best properties never even hit the open market. They are all pocket listed amongst a small group agents just for their clients. They never even hit Redfin or Zillow.
2) Get going right now! You want to try and set the market price in the spring vs. having to pay more in a few months when people start buying. It's a frenzy out there - be decisive but not foolish.
3) Make sure you have a really damn good inspector. Can save you tons. And don't be afraid to ask for everything once the inspection is done.
4) If you can put 20% down go for it. PMI is a PITA and waste of money. If not, pay extra each month to get it gone.
In the last 3 years my wife and I have bought & sold our condo and made a 24% return in 24mo and used that build a new dream house a mile away with 20% down which we could already sell for 10% more than we paid. Don't just view your house as a place to live but balance that out with the idea that it's an investment and you can set yourself for a good future.
You could also look into getting a 2 flat for your first place and renting out half. Great way to start building wealth. I have a few friends who have done that and they love it.
Good luck to you.
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I agree with Jockey, look at a ton of houses. Wife and I have bought two homes in last thirty years and really worked hard on looking at a lot of joints. I also agree with Sir Lawrence across the board. I might add some of the same older houses near the Tosa village. Not sure if price is right, but great area.
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Are you one of those monsters who clogs the road by the church from 245 to 330?
Hah, that’s great, it is a pain to be sure. Nope, I either get their early to get in line in the school lot or my boys get picked up a little earlier near Cannon Park...most of the time ;-)
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For your first house you should realize this is your starter house and you should view it as such. You're most likely only staying 2-5 years. You should focus on what you get the most return and equity on in that amount time. Try and pick neighborhoods where people are moving to and will be the next hot place to live. The reason you do this is that when you sell in that 2-5 years you can make a boat load of cash and apply that towards your next down payment.
Look for places that are structurally really good but need updating if you can stomach it. It's an easy place to make sweat equity work for you. Too bad the new tax laws though don't let you take that interest off your taxes any more. Just remember kitchens and bathrooms sell places. So if you can do the flip on that part you can get a huge amount of equity.
Key things I would also have:
1) A good really really good agent. Don't just use your friends unless they are a top 10% type agent. At least in Chicago most of the best properties never even hit the open market. They are all pocket listed amongst a small group agents just for their clients. They never even hit Redfin or Zillow.
2) Get going right now! You want to try and set the market price in the spring vs. having to pay more in a few months when people start buying. It's a frenzy out there - be decisive but not foolish.
3) Make sure you have a really damn good inspector. Can save you tons. And don't be afraid to ask for everything once the inspection is done.
4) If you can put 20% down go for it. PMI is a PITA and waste of money. If not, pay extra each month to get it gone.
In the last 3 years my wife and I have bought & sold our condo and made a 24% return in 24mo and used that build a new dream house a mile away with 20% down which we could already sell for 10% more than we paid. Don't just view your house as a place to live but balance that out with the idea that it's an investment and you can set yourself for a good future.
You could also look into getting a 2 flat for your first place and renting out half. Great way to start building wealth. I have a few friends who have done that and they love it.
Good luck to you.
Everyone else is telling him where to live, and you're here telling him how to do it.
You're exactly right on every point.
ESPECIALLY POINT 3. PAY EXTRA FOR A GREAT ONE.
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Hah, that’s great, it is a pain to be sure. Nope, I either get their early to get in line in the school lot or my boys get picked up a little earlier near Cannon Park...most of the time ;-)
Have yall gotten any letters home? I know a few neighbors have been complaining about cars blocking their driveways and people refusing to move. I usually just lay the horn on them until they get out of the way.
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For your first house you should realize this is your starter house and you should view it as such. You're most likely only staying 2-5 years. You should focus on what you get the most return and equity on in that amount time. Try and pick neighborhoods where people are moving to and will be the next hot place to live. The reason you do this is that when you sell in that 2-5 years you can make a boat load of cash and apply that towards your next down payment.
Look for places that are structurally really good but need updating if you can stomach it. It's an easy place to make sweat equity work for you. Too bad the new tax laws though don't let you take that interest off your taxes any more. Just remember kitchens and bathrooms sell places. So if you can do the flip on that part you can get a huge amount of equity.
Key things I would also have:
1) A good really really good agent. Don't just use your friends unless they are a top 10% type agent. At least in Chicago most of the best properties never even hit the open market. They are all pocket listed amongst a small group agents just for their clients. They never even hit Redfin or Zillow.
2) Get going right now! You want to try and set the market price in the spring vs. having to pay more in a few months when people start buying. It's a frenzy out there - be decisive but not foolish.
3) Make sure you have a really damn good inspector. Can save you tons. And don't be afraid to ask for everything once the inspection is done.
4) If you can put 20% down go for it. PMI is a PITA and waste of money. If not, pay extra each month to get it gone.
In the last 3 years my wife and I have bought & sold our condo and made a 24% return in 24mo and used that build a new dream house a mile away with 20% down which we could already sell for 10% more than we paid. Don't just view your house as a place to live but balance that out with the idea that it's an investment and you can set yourself for a good future.
You could also look into getting a 2 flat for your first place and renting out half. Great way to start building wealth. I have a few friends who have done that and they love it.
Good luck to you.
Hey these were the types of tips I was looking for. I really hope to get around 25% for a down payment, maybe my father will be able to help out with that. I also really hope to buy within the next 2 months.
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Do you have a chick on the sleeve? If not, Bay View. Congrats!
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For your first house you should realize this is your starter house and you should view it as such. You're most likely only staying 2-5 years. You should focus on what you get the most return and equity on in that amount time. Try and pick neighborhoods where people are moving to and will be the next hot place to live. The reason you do this is that when you sell in that 2-5 years you can make a boat load of cash and apply that towards your next down payment.
Look for places that are structurally really good but need updating if you can stomach it. It's an easy place to make sweat equity work for you. Too bad the new tax laws though don't let you take that interest off your taxes any more. Just remember kitchens and bathrooms sell places. So if you can do the flip on that part you can get a huge amount of equity.
Key things I would also have:
1) A good really really good agent. Don't just use your friends unless they are a top 10% type agent. At least in Chicago most of the best properties never even hit the open market. They are all pocket listed amongst a small group agents just for their clients. They never even hit Redfin or Zillow.
2) Get going right now! You want to try and set the market price in the spring vs. having to pay more in a few months when people start buying. It's a frenzy out there - be decisive but not foolish.
3) Make sure you have a really damn good inspector. Can save you tons. And don't be afraid to ask for everything once the inspection is done.
4) If you can put 20% down go for it. PMI is a PITA and waste of money. If not, pay extra each month to get it gone.
In the last 3 years my wife and I have bought & sold our condo and made a 24% return in 24mo and used that build a new dream house a mile away with 20% down which we could already sell for 10% more than we paid. Don't just view your house as a place to live but balance that out with the idea that it's an investment and you can set yourself for a good future.
You could also look into getting a 2 flat for your first place and renting out half. Great way to start building wealth. I have a few friends who have done that and they love it.
Good luck to you.
I'd add:
5. Do yourself a favor and get a good lawyer. Not just a lawyer, but a real estate lawyer. For $500 +/- (depending on where you are), it's cheap insurance to make sure everything will go as planned. In most cases, this is the single largest expense you'll ever make (until your next house). Inspection, title, survey, possession or lender issues can be resolved a lot easier by someone with experience.
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Keep an eye your credit, is okay, good, great? Also research where you get your pre-approval from (your good agent should have a goto person). The big banks (BoA, Citizens...) can actually be quite the hassle, not easy to get a hold of. Look into local credit unions, or again take the recommendations of your agent.
Start gathering documents, lots of documents. Checking statements, savings statements, retirement statements, W-2s from the past few years, 1040s from the past two 2 years, last few months of paystubs...just PDF all of this stuff, have it at the ready.
Mrs Reinko and I are battling the real estate market in the Greater Boston area, and it ain't pretty. Houses in desirable neighborhoods getting 15-20 offers, some folks are waving inspections, some are all cash...just brutal.
Cheers and good luck Unleash
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Keep an eye your credit, is okay, good, great? Also research where you get your pre-approval from (your good agent should have a goto person). The big banks (BoA, Citizens...) can actually be quite the hassle, not easy to get a hold of. Look into local credit unions, or again take the recommendations of your agent.
Start gathering documents, lots of documents. Checking statements, savings statements, retirement statements, W-2s from the past few years, 1040s from the past two 2 years, last few months of paystubs...just PDF all of this stuff, have it at the ready.
Mrs Reinko and I are battling the real estate market in the Greater Boston area, and it ain't pretty. Houses in desirable neighborhoods getting 15-20 offers, some folks are waving inspections, some are all cash...just brutal.
Cheers and good luck Unleash
Agree with Reinko. Use a local credit union (UW Credit Union is great, they have several branches in the Milw area). We had our first mortgage with Johnson Bank (ok) then refinanced twice with UWCU. Built our new house and the credit union couldn't write the loan for a couple of reasons. We got lazy and went with the realtor's broker. (We trusted the realtor, one of the top teams in Madison and we knew and trusted both of them for many years prior to this deal).
Needless to say, the broker was 1) lazy, 2) an idiot, 3) Warren Buffett bought First Weber and the mortgage broker, so our loan was purchased by AIG. It's been sold twice in a year, no local service, website sux. Can't wait to refinance back to the credit union in a few years.
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I'll second the recommendations to spend on a good inspector and lawyer. Also, think about how long you want to be in this house. If it's short, go for an ARM and save even more.
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I'll second the recommendations to spend on a good inspector and lawyer. Also, think about how long you want to be in this house. If it's short, go for an ARM and save even more.
Disagree. No need to spend extra on an attorney.
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Have yall gotten any letters home? I know a few neighbors have been complaining about cars blocking their driveways and people refusing to move. I usually just lay the horn on them until they get out of the way.
The one thing we were told was to slow down, which I absolutely agree with. It is crazy town during afternoon pick up. Most days my boys are there until much later, so I rarely have to deal with it, but man, people are crazy. Honestly, it drives me crazy, too. I was actually coming around the bend near the park and the apartment complex entrance and had to move into the center of the road due to the line up of cars. Dude is coming at me, I stop, he pulls right up to my front bumper, puts the car in park, and sits there. I slowly back up, move out of the way, he rolls window down and insults me, calls me a bunch of names, tells me I am an idiot, etc., all while his young daughter is sitting in the front seat. Good stuff...sorry if that was you, I was a little passive aggressive.
It is actually a nice neighborhood for a first house, too. Near a great school, great park, coffee and groceries are a walk away, highway access is super easy, hospital is right there, easy to get downtown, easy to get to the big boxes in Brookfield. I know a couple people have their houses on the market in that area and just east of 92nd.
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Always do the mortgage with a local bank or (better yet) a credit union. If you're not already in a CU, join one now so you have some history with them before the loan paperwork. Have your salary deposited there.
When you do the loan, add a clause that the bank/CU are not allowed to sell it. I have done this with multiple mortgages and re-finances and the only comment I ever got was "good idea, I think we can do that" and it was always agreed.
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Disagree. No need to spend extra on an attorney.
Stick with scouting reports and other basketball related advice.
As someone who has practiced real estate law in the Chicago area and closed hundreds of transactions each year for 30+ years, I can tell you that too many things can go wrong. Your realtor can't (and shouldn't because it's the practice of law) solve most of the problems that may arise. Do yourself a favor Unleash. Find a good local real estate lawyer.
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I'll second the recommendations to spend on a good inspector and lawyer. Also, think about how long you want to be in this house. If it's short, go for an ARM and save even more.
Im not planning for a long term house. What is ARM?
Going for my first look today!
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The one thing we were told was to slow down, which I absolutely agree with. It is crazy town during afternoon pick up. Most days my boys are there until much later, so I rarely have to deal with it, but man, people are crazy. Honestly, it drives me crazy, too. I was actually coming around the bend near the park and the apartment complex entrance and had to move into the center of the road due to the line up of cars. Dude is coming at me, I stop, he pulls right up to my front bumper, puts the car in park, and sits there. I slowly back up, move out of the way, he rolls window down and insults me, calls me a bunch of names, tells me I am an idiot, etc., all while his young daughter is sitting in the front seat. Good stuff...sorry if that was you, I was a little passive aggressive.
It is actually a nice neighborhood for a first house, too. Near a great school, great park, coffee and groceries are a walk away, highway access is super easy, hospital is right there, easy to get downtown, easy to get to the big boxes in Brookfield. I know a couple people have their houses on the market in that area and just east of 92nd.
Nah wasn't me. My girlfriend lives in the apartment complex so I have to deal with the nutties quite a bit. Sometimes they are good and don't clug the middle of the road... Other days......
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Im not planning for a long term house. What is ARM?
Going for my first look today!
Adjustable Rate Mortgage. Usually a lower rate than a fixed 15 or 30 year mortgage, but the rate will adjust upwards (in most cases) in 3, 5 or 7 years, depending on the product. If you know you'll only be there a short time, it can make a lot of sense. If you're going to be there long term, get into a 15 year term if you can.
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Agree with Reinko. Use a local credit union (UW Credit Union is great, they have several branches in the Milw area). We had our first mortgage with Johnson Bank (ok) then refinanced twice with UWCU. Built our new house and the credit union couldn't write the loan for a couple of reasons. We got lazy and went with the realtor's broker. (We trusted the realtor, one of the top teams in Madison and we knew and trusted both of them for many years prior to this deal).
Needless to say, the broker was 1) lazy, 2) an idiot, 3) Warren Buffett bought First Weber and the mortgage broker, so our loan was purchased by AIG. It's been sold twice in a year, no local service, website sux. Can't wait to refinance back to the credit union in a few years.
AIG wuz in da trailer park mortgage biz? Who new, hey?
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Im not planning for a long term house. What is ARM?
Going for my first look today!
If you are quite sure you won't be in a house for more than 5-7 years, a 5-year or 7-year ARM definitely would lower your payments and let you buy more house. Absolutely consider it.
I say this and I am a pretty conservative financial person who wouldn't recommend ARMs for those who are likely to stay in a house longer.
You also should get familiar with mortgages early in the process. Shop for rates and fees - it's the total cost that matters. Make sure you know exactly what you will be paying for so you can do apples-to-apples comparisons. And if you find a mortgage broker/bank you want to do business with, get them to pre-approve you for a purchase of X amount of $$$. A note from them can help your bargaining power, especially if there are multiple parties interested in a house.
Let's say you and another couple want a house listed for $150k. You offer $140K and show the owners the letter from a mortgage company stating you already have been pre-approved to buy a $140K house; the other couple offers $143K but has absolutely no proof that they can afford it. If you're the owner, you probably take the "sure thing."
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If you are quite sure you won't be in a house for more than 5-7 years, a 5-year or 7-year ARM definitely would lower your payments and let you buy more house. Absolutely consider it.
I say this and I am a pretty conservative financial person who wouldn't recommend ARMs for those who are likely to stay in a house longer.
You also should get familiar with mortgages early in the process. Shop for rates and fees - it's the total cost that matters. Make sure you know exactly what you will be paying for so you can do apples-to-apples comparisons. And if you find a mortgage broker/bank you want to do business with, get them to pre-approve you for a purchase of X amount of $$$. A note from them can help your bargaining power, especially if there are multiple parties interested in a house.
Let's say you and another couple want a house listed for $150k. You offer $140K and show the owners the letter from a mortgage company stating you already have been pre-approved to buy a $140K house; the other couple offers $143K but has absolutely no proof that they can afford it. If you're the owner, you probably take the "sure thing."
Does anyone still go out writing offers without a pre-approval from the bank?
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AIG wuz in da trailer park mortgage biz? Who new, hey?
Warren B knows what he's doing.
And it's called a "manufactured home" now. Show some respect for the lifestyle.
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Does anyone still go out writing offers without a pre-approval from the bank?
No. And while a pre-approval is a necessity, it's not always a guaranty that the buyer will ultimately be approved.
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Stick with scouting reports and other basketball related advice.
As someone who has practiced real estate law in the Chicago area and closed hundreds of transactions each year for 30+ years, I can tell you that too many things can go wrong. Your realtor can't (and shouldn't because it's the practice of law) solve most of the problems that may arise. Do yourself a favor Unleash. Find a good local real estate lawyer.
Unleash, don’t throw away hundreds for nothing. Find a decent real estate agent and roll.
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Unleash, don’t throw away hundreds for nothing. Find a decent real estate agent and roll.
Any "decent" real estate agent would tell you to get a good real estate lawyer.
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Unleash, don’t throw away hundreds for nothing. Find a decent real estate agent and roll.
In BeeJay's defense, most of the attorneys he knows are the criminal defense ones.
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I bought a duplex (in Milwaukee near Tosa) for my first house when I was in my mid-20s and it worked out great. I put about 30% down, lived in one half with a roommate who paid me rent and split the utilities, and was able to pay off the whole thing within 6 years. I lived there for about 6 years and then got married and bought a regular house about 6 blocks away (in Tosa)... I still have the duplex (over 25 years later) and it's netted me almost 15% over the years.
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I bought a duplex (in Milwaukee near Tosa) for my first house when I was in my mid-20s and it worked out great. I put about 30% down, lived in one half with a roommate who paid me rent and split the utilities, and was able to pay off the whole thing within 6 years. I lived there for about 6 years and then got married and bought a regular house about 6 blocks away (in Tosa)... I still have the duplex (over 25 years later) and it's netted me almost 15% over the years.
Hey hey, just got done with my first day of looking and low and behold I love a duplex I saw. Either rent the upper or make it into a 4 bed 2 bath single family, I'm up in the air about it.
Its funny how closely we match. I'm in my mid 20's, hoping to put 30k down and will be living with a roommate (girlfriend) who will split the mortgage payment as her rent.
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Hey hey, just got done with my first day of looking and low and behold I love a duplex I saw. Either rent the upper or make it into a 4 bed 2 bath single family, I'm up in the air about it.
Its funny how closely we match. I'm in my mid 20's, hoping to put 30k down and will be living with a roommate (girlfriend) who will split the mortgage payment as her rent.
If you plan on making it a SFR, rather than keeping it a duplex, check zoning and also permit costs and whether the municipality has any issues with your plan. More than likely they won't since you're decreasing density, but check into things beforehand, unless you will buy either way.
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Hey hey, just got done with my first day of looking and low and behold I love a duplex I saw. Either rent the upper or make it into a 4 bed 2 bath single family, I'm up in the air about it.
Its funny how closely we match. I'm in my mid 20's, hoping to put 30k down and will be living with a roommate (girlfriend) who will split the mortgage payment as her rent.
You’re doomed. Biggest issues for you have Nathan to do with attorneys and such.
Buy an affordable single fam home, have wifey contribute. Simple as that.
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Hey hey, just got done with my first day of looking and low and behold I love a duplex I saw. Either rent the upper or make it into a 4 bed 2 bath single family, I'm up in the air about it.
Its funny how closely we match. I'm in my mid 20's, hoping to put 30k down and will be living with a roommate (girlfriend) who will split the mortgage payment as her rent.
girlfriend or you just planning on bangin' the roommate, I'm really a badger fan?
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Unleash, don’t throw away hundreds for nothing. Find a decent real estate agent and roll.
You probably won't need an attorney. I'd still do it as insurance, as someone mentioned earlier.
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You probably won't need an attorney. I'd still do it as insurance, as someone mentioned earlier.
This guy is doubling down on it, but I’d be curious what % we’d see if Scoopers Houses bought... and attorneys used
Just stupid and unusual advice
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Any "decent" real estate agent would tell you to get a good real estate lawyer.
No lawyers allowed in some states on real estate.
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Used an attorney, but didn't use a real estate agent. That's the way to go.
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Bought a small single family house in Bay View about a year and a half ago. No attorney.
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This guy is doubling down on it, but I’d be curious what % we’d see if Scoopers Houses bought... and attorneys used
Just stupid and unusual advice
No attorney in a state that didn’t require it and used one in a state that required it. I noticed no difference in service since most of these contracts and loan docs are boilerplate anyway.
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No lawyers allowed in some states on real estate.
And in the Chicago area, it's standard.
A lawyer is needed to draft documents for the seller to convey the property to the buyer. Most non-attorneys don''t know what and how to do that. There are a number of other things that have to get done (title and survey clearance issues, inspection issues, possession issues, etc.). For a buyer, while not a "required", there are contract issues, inspection title, survey, lender, possession and closing issues, etc. A realtor can't handle those, at least not in Illinois, as those are the practice of law. Regarding drafting documents, the realtor's role is limited to filling in blanks on a standardized contract form. A realtor can't explain the ramifications of certain provisions in a contract. A realtor can't explain legal consequences of the contract or other issues as they arise in the contract process. A realtor can't get a buyer or seller out of a contract if something goes wrong. Your lender can explain loan documents to you, but neither the lender or realtor can advise you how to best take title or clear up a survey or title issue that arises at closing.
For most people, buying a house is the single largest investment a person will make in their lifetime. Hiring a real estate lawyer for your closing is cheap insurance to make sure issues are properly resolved and that you end up in the house you want without a lot of problems post-closing.
Can you do it without a lawyer? Of course. But you could also pull out your own tooth rather than going to see 4ever or Rocket Surgeon.
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Hey hey, just got done with my first day of looking and low and behold I love a duplex I saw. Either rent the upper or make it into a 4 bed 2 bath single family, I'm up in the air about it.
Its funny how closely we match. I'm in my mid 20's, hoping to put 30k down and will be living with a roommate (girlfriend) who will split the mortgage payment as her rent.
I'd recommend renting the upper out for a few years, collect rent money (it adds up FAST), see how it goes. You can always convert it later if you decide to but you'll love the income stream.
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nm
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I bought a duplex that was originally built as a single family -- it was converted in the 1950s -- and rented out the upper for 15 years. I provided wifi, cable and heat and then was able to claim half of those costs as business expenses. Half of every exterior improvement and select interior ones were also business expenses. Find a competent accountant who can manage all of the tax issues for you.
At the time I sold it, the neighborhood housing market favored single-family homes and I spent $5K returning it to its single-family configuration which resulted in a $30K gain over selling it as a duplex.
When you sell a duplex that you lived in, you pay capital gains on half of the profit because the rental half was income producing. If you move out and then rent out the other half, you have three years to sell the home before the entire home is considered income producing, resulting in paying capital gains on all of the profits from the sale.
It is important to understand your duplex exit strategy.
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While some here used their rental income to pay off the property. I refinanced into a very low rate and while I did put some cash against my mortgage principle, I invested most of it into a Roth IRA and now it has reached the point where dividends within that equal the annual rent I received -- so even though I no longer have the house, in a sense that investment is still paying off.
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On the attorney issue ...
Different areas have different norms.
When we lived in Minny, just about nobody used RE attorneys. I bought and sold 2 houses there without using one. Everything went smoothly on all 4 transactions.
In Chicago area, most use RE attorneys. I wanted to save the few hundred bucks, but I was a little concerned with the other party having one and us not having one. So I caved and got one.
Here in NC, it seems about 50/50; we did not use one.
About 20 states actually have laws mandating the physical presence of an attorney at real estate closings. Wisconsin is not one of them.
So my advice to Rowsey would be to do what he feels most comfortable about.
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Long day of open houses today. I'm currently 1/5 on houses I liked at all. Hopefully some more good ones to come.
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When we moved to NC, my wife and I looked at 120 houses. And several of them, we looked at multiple times.
THAT, my friend, was overkill!
We ended up with a nice place, but if I had it to do again, I would have handled it differently.
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Unleash, don’t throw away hundreds for nothing. Find a decent real estate agent and roll.
Absolutely disagree with this. If an attorney does his or her job, they read the contracts and explain what they mean.
They double check the wording and are willing to contest "standard language" that is not client-friendly. They can read what the bank sends over and make sure it means what it says. Your attorney represents you. Your real estate agent represents the money you are going to pay for the house and for his or her fee.
One thing you need to at closing though is READ THE CONTRACT. Ask for everything in advance and make sure you are comfortable with it. On our home we purchased four years ago in Florida (yes, it is a second home in God's Waiting Room), we drove our real estate agent nuts because we read everything (the attorney did not send it in advance) and closing took about two hours.
We found a major glitch in "standard secondary market language" that would have given the lender an inadvertent call option if we made our Florida home our primary residence. We called the lender out on it but were between a rock and hard place. We had a very large escrow amount at risk if we called off the transaction and the lender would not modify.
P.S. -- I'm not an attorney. Just someone who distrusts real estate agents!
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Absolutely disagree with this. If an attorney does his or her job, they read the contracts and explain what they mean.
They double check the wording and are willing to contest "standard language" that is not client-friendly. They can read what the bank sends over and make sure it means what it says. Your attorney represents you. Your real estate agent represents the money you are going to pay for the house and for his or her fee.
One thing you need to at closing though is READ THE CONTRACT. Ask for everything in advance and make sure you are comfortable with it. On our home we purchased four years ago in Florida (yes, it is a second home in God's Waiting Room), we drove our real estate agent nuts because we read everything (the attorney did not send it in advance) and closing took about two hours.
We found a major glitch in "standard secondary market language" that would have given the lender an inadvertent call option if we made our Florida home our primary residence. We called the lender out on it but were between a rock and hard place. We had a very large escrow amount at risk if we called off the transaction and the lender would not modify.
P.S. -- I'm not an attorney. Just someone who distrusts real estate agents!
You're all over the place with this story. Doesn't make sense.
Unleash aint gone get no dang attorney
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You're all over the place with this story. Doesn't make sense.
Unleash aint gone get no dang attorney
Let's clarify using grade school language for the Speech Majors.
1) Real estate agents are out for real estate agents.
a) Real estate agents don't represent you.
b) Real estate agents don't have law degrees.
c) Real estate agents don't have finance degrees either.
2) Attorneys can read contracts and, if experienced, can tell you what they mean.
a) An attorney will help you decide whether terms and conditions are "acceptable risk" to you.
3) Despite this, never trust anyone.
a) The real estate agent doesn't have to live with what you bought after it is over.
4) Read everything yourself and use your attorney as a resource to explain to you what the contract means.
Jaybee, what I don't understand is this. You're spending $250,000 or more on a home (less if you live in a lower cost market). You're committing more of your family wealth into this asset than anything else.
All this and you're too cost-conscious to have an independent, knowledgeable third party read your contract and your loan agreements?
Dude, that's a big reason why we ended up with the housing crisis of 2008 to 2011. I know, I helped clean it up at some banks.
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All good advice here. We used to live on the east side, also had a place in Wauwatosa before we left the state. Don't become house poor and be a slave to your mortgage. School district huge. Buying the smallest house in neighborhood is a decent strategy for some.
Get an idea of what people in the neighborhood are doing. Are they renovating the homes, putting in new roofs, replacing things that need replaced? Or is it an old neighborhood with old owners that are just sitting on it, that may give you an idea how long it will take for an older hood to turnover with new life and improvements.
Good luck. It's stressful as hell at first, and then it just becomes second nature. Damn near had a panic attack signing what felt like 500 documents and looking at the total amount paid over 30 years.
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Let's clarify using grade school language for the Speech Majors.
1) Real estate agents are out for real estate agents.
a) Real estate agents don't represent you.
b) Real estate agents don't have law degrees.
c) Real estate agents don't have finance degrees either.
2) Attorneys can read contracts and, if experienced, can tell you what they mean.
a) An attorney will help you decide whether terms and conditions are "acceptable risk" to you.
3) Despite this, never trust anyone.
a) The real estate agent doesn't have to live with what you bought after it is over.
4) Read everything yourself and use your attorney as a resource to explain to you what the contract means.
Jaybee, what I don't understand is this. You're spending $250,000 or more on a home (less if you live in a lower cost market). You're committing more of your family wealth into this asset than anything else.
All this and you're too cost-conscious to have an independent, knowledgeable third party read your contract and your loan agreements?
Dude, that's a big reason why we ended up with the housing crisis of 2008 to 2011. I know, I helped clean it up at some banks.
The gentlemen involved is shopping for a house at a price of ~$140k, not $250k or more.
You're arguing for an attorney as a "peace of mind" short-term insurance policy. The likelihood of being "saved" is minimal for Unleash. Waste of time and money.
Failure to hire attorneys to read loan documents and purchase agreements didn't create the housing crises. Dummies spending "money" on things they should not have created it. And now you want them to do it some more.
PS - Real estate agents DO represent you and some agents do have law and/or finance degrees.
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Failure to hire attorneys to read loan documents and purchase agreements didn't create the housing crises. Dummies spending "money" on things they should not have created it. And now you want them to do it some more.
PS - Real estate agents DO represent you and some agents do have law and/or finance degrees.
On the first one -- wrong. Ever heard of Payment Option ARMs? The housing crisis of 2008 started in the Inland Empire and the Central Valley of California because the real estate agents pushed a promise that housing values would never go down. Neg Am pushed the value of the loan far higher than the value of the house.
Real estate agents peddled properties financed with sub-prime mortgages to people who had no clue what they were buying, how the loans refinanced or frankly what their obligations were. Too many were like the agent my wife and I had when we went to buy our first home and were shown a home that was outside our price range. "Let the bank worry about it," the Realtor said (and, yes, he was a Realtor).
We have the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau for a reason and this is a big part of it!
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On the first one -- wrong. Ever heard of Payment Option ARMs? The housing crisis of 2008 started in the Inland Empire and the Central Valley of California because the real estate agents pushed a promise that housing values would never go down. Neg Am pushed the value of the loan far higher than the value of the house.
Real estate agents peddled properties financed with sub-prime mortgages to people who had no clue what they were buying, how the loans refinanced or frankly what their obligations were. Too many were like the agent my wife and I had when we went to buy our first home and were shown a home that was outside our price range. "Let the bank worry about it," the Realtor said (and, yes, he was a Realtor).
We have the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau for a reason and this is a big part of it!
Like I said... it was caused by dummies.
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Had my first heart attack. Was at a 4 bed 1 bath 60k place that needed a ton of renovation (Structurally fine, just trashed) went to the basement where the lights weren't working. Girlfriend and the 2 realtors say they see something in a hole in the corner, I was about 4 feet away and looked in it with my phone flashlight. What stared back at me was a giant owl, yes a GOD DAM OWL!. I let out a shriek and before I knew it all 3 of the girls were upstairs and refused to come back down. After I realized it was a taxidermy owl I laughed for about 5 minutes straight. After that, all 3 girls refused to explore the house anymore.
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Real talk, highly recommend multiple bathrooms. Ideally one is “hidden” for crazy dumps while wifey is home
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Real talk, highly recommend multiple bathrooms. Ideally one is “hidden” for crazy dumps while wifey is home
The basement is for pooping.
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Didn't bye nothin' tadey, hey?
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one call, that’s all, enn’a Hey?
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Had my first heart attack. Was at a 4 bed 1 bath 60k place that needed a ton of renovation (Structurally fine, just trashed) went to the basement where the lights weren't working. Girlfriend and the 2 realtors say they see something in a hole in the corner, I was about 4 feet away and looked in it with my phone flashlight. What stared back at me was a giant owl, yes a GOD DAM OWL!. I let out a shriek and before I knew it all 3 of the girls were upstairs and refused to come back down. After I realized it was a taxidermy owl I laughed for about 5 minutes straight. After that, all 3 girls refused to explore the house anymore.
Whooooo screamed like a little girl?
That's a hilarious story. Can't believe you didn't buy the house!!
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Buying our first (and ultimately only until retirement) house. We had been through several. My wife walks into what is currently our house and said in the first 10 seconds, in front of the previous owners, "this is the one. I want this one." .....and there went the negotiating leverage. But, like everything else with us, we made it work.
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I won't go into the fine detail here because it would probably land me in an ARDC hearing, but from my own experience - which includes over 100 residential closings during the summer of 2005 - if you are buying or selling real estate in the Chicago area, you absolutely have to have an attorney. I have personally seen what happens to the side that doesn't engage an attorney at the closing (if not immediately after the contract is signed), and trust me, they get railroaded every time.
Most attorneys work for a flat fee (usually around $300-400), which includes contract review, modifications (if necessary) and the in-person work at the closing... so let's put this in context: if you're using a broker, you're probably paying that person - either directly or indirectly - somewhere between $6,000-13,000. If the deal doesn't close, nobody gets paid... so who do you think is going to better represent your interests if things go south? Will it be the guy/gal who might not be sitting at another closing table for a few weeks (or months) or the guy/gal who risks throwing away 7+ years of college and law school for breaching a fiduciary duty?
Other states/locales are different. Each has their own custom; in Chicago, it is overwhelmingly customary to have an attorney at the closing table. Period.
That being said, the #1 rule of home-buying is DON'T FALL IN LOVE (*cough* tower). My wife and I wrote 14 offers on 12 different homes before we landed the house we still have today (and have no intention of leaving anytime soon). I interviewed 3 tenant brokers to help us out, and the first two were eliminated because they both touted their negotiation prowess, essentially guaranteeing that we would "win" the negotiations for the first house we picked. The third broker sold us on us finding the right house, even if it meant taking us through every listing in the county (which at times it seemed like he was). When the deal fell through or our offer wasn't accepted, we moved on to the next one. It was a much more time consuming process, but our patience ensured that not only would we not overpay for anything, but as it turned out, we ended up in a situation where our purchased comped out 20% below market within 90 days of closing.
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I believe I've narrowed it down to three. (at least for the Milwaukee area) 2 homes and 1 duplex ranging from 120k to 170k
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I won't go into the fine detail here because it would probably land me in an ARDC hearing, but from my own experience - which includes over 100 residential closings during the summer of 2005 - if you are buying or selling real estate in the Chicago area, you absolutely have to have an attorney. I have personally seen what happens to the side that doesn't engage an attorney at the closing (if not immediately after the contract is signed), and trust me, they get railroaded every time.
Most attorneys work for a flat fee (usually around $300-400), which includes contract review, modifications (if necessary) and the in-person work at the closing... so let's put this in context: if you're using a broker, you're probably paying that person - either directly or indirectly - somewhere between $6,000-13,000. If the deal doesn't close, nobody gets paid... so who do you think is going to better represent your interests if things go south? Will it be the guy/gal who might not be sitting at another closing table for a few weeks (or months) or the guy/gal who risks throwing away 7+ years of college and law school for breaching a fiduciary duty?
Other states/locales are different. Each has their own custom; in Chicago, it is overwhelmingly customary to have an attorney at the closing table. Period.
That being said, the #1 rule of home-buying is DON'T FALL IN LOVE (*cough* tower). My wife and I wrote 14 offers on 12 different homes before we landed the house we still have today (and have no intention of leaving anytime soon). I interviewed 3 tenant brokers to help us out, and the first two were eliminated because they both touted their negotiation prowess, essentially guaranteeing that we would "win" the negotiations for the first house we picked. The third broker sold us on us finding the right house, even if it meant taking us through every listing in the county (which at times it seemed like he was). When the deal fell through or our offer wasn't accepted, we moved on to the next one. It was a much more time consuming process, but our patience ensured that not only would we not overpay for anything, but as it turned out, we ended up in a situation where our purchased comped out 20% below market within 90 days of closing.
Wow! Here in Jersey an attorney will usually charge around 1200-1500.
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The gentlemen involved is shopping for a house at a price of ~$140k, not $250k or more.
You're arguing for an attorney as a "peace of mind" short-term insurance policy. The likelihood of being "saved" is minimal for Unleash. Waste of time and money.
Failure to hire attorneys to read loan documents and purchase agreements didn't create the housing crises. Dummies spending "money" on things they should not have created it. And now you want them to do it some more.
PS - Real estate agents DO represent you and some agents do have law and/or finance degrees.
Hurts me to say this, but I agree with JB 100% here.
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This guy is doubling down on it, but I’d be curious what % we’d see if Scoopers Houses bought... and attorneys used
Just stupid and unusual advice
I used an attorney. I was told that is common practice in Illinois. I think it really depends by state.
It was $500 flat fee and he was actually quite helpful for a first time buyer. There was a ton of negotiation and the attorney ran point. He actually paid for himself by getting us a $1000 credit at closing because of an upcoming special assessment that was disclosed just prior to closing. Could I have negotiated that myself? Sure, I suppose. Is it likely that I would have, as a first time homebuyer? Doubtful.
Closing was super smooth. The other side had an attorney. I would not want to be the one side that didn't while the other did.
If you live in a state where hardly anyone uses an attorney, you probably don't need one. I wouldn't be caught dead without one in Illinois. Biggest investment of my life, and I'm going to skimp on $500?
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Let's clarify using grade school language for the Speech Majors.
1) Real estate agents are out for real estate agents.
a) Real estate agents don't represent you.
b) Real estate agents don't have law degrees.
c) Real estate agents don't have finance degrees either.
2) Attorneys can read contracts and, if experienced, can tell you what they mean.
a) An attorney will help you decide whether terms and conditions are "acceptable risk" to you.
3) Despite this, never trust anyone.
a) The real estate agent doesn't have to live with what you bought after it is over.
4) Read everything yourself and use your attorney as a resource to explain to you what the contract means.
Jaybee, what I don't understand is this. You're spending $250,000 or more on a home (less if you live in a lower cost market). You're committing more of your family wealth into this asset than anything else.
All this and you're too cost-conscious to have an independent, knowledgeable third party read your contract and your loan agreements?
Dude, that's a big reason why we ended up with the housing crisis of 2008 to 2011. I know, I helped clean it up at some banks.
This.
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I used an attorney. I was told that is common practice in Illinois. I think it really depends by state.
It was $500 flat fee and he was actually quite helpful for a first time buyer. There was a ton of negotiation and the attorney ran point. He actually paid for himself by getting us a $1000 credit at closing because of an upcoming special assessment that was disclosed just prior to closing. Could I have negotiated that myself? Sure, I suppose. Is it likely that I would have, as a first time homebuyer? Doubtful.
Closing was super smooth. The other side had an attorney. I would not want to be the one side that didn't while the other did.
If you live in a state where hardly anyone uses an attorney, you probably don't need one. I wouldn't be caught dead without one in Illinois. Biggest investment of my life, and I'm going to skimp on $500?
This. Many states are "escrow" states, where the title company acts as the escrow agent AND prepares documents on behalf of the seller. But they don't represent either the seller or the buyer. In Illinois, title companies don't, and can't, prepare documents of conveyance. To not spend the $400-$500 (average) that it takes to hire a lawyer, you're being foolish. As someone who does hundreds of closings per year for the last 31 years, I've seen way too many problems that could have been avoided by each side having a lawyer.
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You mentioned Waukesha in your initial post-have you looked there? I’ve lived there for 30 years-love it. Close to everything. A lot of options including shopping, safety, schools, proximity to Milwaukee and relatively reasonable property taxes. I’d also check out new Berlin, butler, Germantown and Menominee falls
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I wouldn't be caught dead without one in Illinois. Biggest investment of my life, and I'm going to skimp on $500?
Here you go. You hit the nail on the head.
Assuming a $150,000 house and a $500 legal fee, your legal costs are 0.33 percent of the cost of the house. Most buyers are paying more than that for the new flat screen television that will go in the family room.
Next thing I hear is that a buyer doesn't need to pay for a home inspection either!
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Here you go. You hit the nail on the head.
Assuming a $150,000 house and a $500 legal fee, your legal costs are 0.33 percent of the cost of the house. Most buyers are paying more than that for the new flat screen television that will go in the family room.
Next thing I hear is that a buyer doesn't need to pay for a home inspection either!
Yep. A little on an attorney up front can possibly save a lot on an attorney later. I'd never do a real estate deal without one.
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We've bought 3 houses over the years. Didn't use a lawyer on any. Not saying it was right or wrong. Maybe we were just lucky. But if you don't try to cut corners to find a way to afford a house you really have no business buying, what things do you really need to worry about? That's an actual question, not trying to make a statement with a rhetorical question.
I was more worried about hiring a competent home inspector
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This has been a really interesting thread to follow. A large number of posters seem very satisfied with the lawyers they've hired, all of whom agreed to flat fee the transaction for $500 or less from the jump. I legitimately had no idea that legal services market was out there.
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Here you go. You hit the nail on the head.
Assuming a $150,000 house and a $500 legal fee, your legal costs are 0.33 percent of the cost of the house. Most buyers are paying more than that for the new flat screen television that will go in the family room.
Next thing I hear is that a buyer doesn't need to pay for a home inspection either!
In the market where I live (Greater Boston), people are waiving inspections to make their offers more competitive, and few if any are allowing pre-inspection since houses are only on the market for 5-6 days.
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In the market where I live (Greater Boston), people are waiving inspections to make their offers more competitive, and few if any are allowing pre-inspection since houses are only on the market for 5-6 days.
So do you just have a home inspector on call and he/she rides along with you while viewing the houses? I couldn't buy a house without a home inspection. Good thing I don't live in Boston.
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This has been a really interesting thread to follow. A large number of posters seem very satisfied with the lawyers they've hired, all of whom agreed to flat fee the transaction for $500 or less from the jump. I legitimately had no idea that legal services market was out there.
Again... not in every state, mostly because spending 2-5 hours at a closing is not worth $500 to an attorney who bills at $200-600/hr.
In Illinois, seller's counsel orders title and there's a spiff/commission involved for the attorney that makes it worth more than $500; however, the buyer's attorney sees none of that, so for a first-time buyer (or someone who isn't also selling a house), most attorneys take the job hoping that you'll remember them when it comes time to sell, or better yet, the next time you need a lawyer for something (most consider themselves general practice, even if they focus squarely on RE transactions).
Coincidentally, for most first-time home buyers (if they're lucky), a RE closing is their first interaction with a real attorney; so if you're a competent attorney, you can generate a lot of business on that sort of goodwill alone (especially considering that the hows, whats and wheres of advertising legal services are highly regulated).
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You mentioned Waukesha in your initial post-have you looked there? I’ve lived there for 30 years-love it. Close to everything. A lot of options including shopping, safety, schools, proximity to Milwaukee and relatively reasonable property taxes. I’d also check out new Berlin, butler, Germantown and Menominee falls
Unfortunatly within my price range, I haven't found much in those areas. Waukesha has so far only had what I would call dumps that were overpriced and needed a lot of work. New berlin had a few, but none I loved very much. Butler has one that I may be thinking about, and Menominee Falls was a bit out of our price range =(
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So do you just have a home inspector on call and he/she rides along with you while viewing the houses? I couldn't buy a house without a home inspection. Good thing I don't live in Boston.
When my wife and I looked for our first home in the mid 1980s, we found a home in a nicer northern Chicago suburb that we really liked. I went to a showing with my Dad, who is a Marquette-educated civil engineer and CEO of a large engineering firm, and had my Dad poke around with us. My Dad, who had led a design team on our family's home in the 1960s, did a close look at the property.
My Dad saved us about $25,000 (1980s dollars) by identifying a boatload of problems with the home, in the windows, roof and insulation. Dad showed me things I, in my non-engineering first time home buying, never in a million years would have noticed. From that day forward, I never, ever considered buying a home without Dad present or without a professional inspector/contractor or engineer inspecting the property.
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Unfortunatly within my price range, I haven't found much in those areas. Waukesha has so far only had what I would call dumps that were overpriced and needed a lot of work. New berlin had a few, but none I loved very much. Butler has one that I may be thinking about, and Menominee Falls was a bit out of our price range =(
Also, who would want to live in Waukesha? I grew up there - 1988-1997 and once I graduated never looked back. Would never ever in a million years ever want to live there. So far from the city and just boring as sin.
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Real talk, highly recommend multiple bathrooms. Ideally one is “hidden” for crazy dumps while wifey is home
First house in Tosa had a toilet in the unfinished basement just out in the open, nothing else around it. Strangely liberating and somewhat terrifying at the same time.
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First house in Tosa had a toilet in the unfinished basement just out in the open, nothing else around it. Strangely liberating and somewhat terrifying at the same time.
The house my parents bought in 1974 had a toilet like that in the basement before they finished off the basement a couple years later. Even though I was only 4-5 at the time that unprotected toilet has made appearances in bad dreams years later.
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First house in Tosa had a toilet in the unfinished basement just out in the open, nothing else around it. Strangely liberating and somewhat terrifying at the same time.
Pittsburgh Toilets are the best. The urban legend is that they were for miners to use before they cleaned up, but the real reason for them is to compensate for crapty plumbing infrastructure back in the day. Because the sewers used to back up all the time, architects started putting Pittsburgh Toilets in to make sure that when sewage flowed back into your house, it just got all over your unfinished basement. Most houses of that era only had bathrooms on the second floor, too, so if you didnt have a basement toilet, a backup could cause mold problems in the ceiling of the first floor.
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First house in Tosa had a toilet in the unfinished basement just out in the open, nothing else around it. Strangely liberating and somewhat terrifying at the same time.
Know your target and beyond, enn’a so?
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Al Bundy would disagree, Fergusons are the best toilets!
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Might be putting in an offer for my first house----in IL (limited options in Kenosha and big time seller's market, it seems like). When should I contact a real estate attorney? Just at the closing, assuming my offer is accepted?
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Al Bundy would disagree, Fergusons are the best toilets!
When we bought our Chicago condo in 2004, we decided to change the 3 toilets to the "comfort height" toilets with the elongated bowl. I did my research and Toto toilets consistently rated the highest.
So I searched for them in Chicago ... and couldn't find any. Home Depot, Lowe's and the like didn't carry them, and nobody else had them in stock. I also couldn't find them online cheap enough to make it worth it to pay the high shipping costs. (This was before free shipping became widely available.)
I finally located them at a plumbing distributor near the West Loop. The employee said they would hold them for me but went to pick them up the next day they were gone.
"Sorry, we had to sell them to somebody else."
"Well, that doesn't make me happy. When will you get more in stock?"
"Who knows? We'll call you."
I didn't think that sounded promising, so I tried one more plumbing supply shop. They had one in stock but it was spoken for. I asked the guy why it was so hard to find Toto toilets in Chicago.
"It's kind of strange," he said. "It's like they are intentionally keeping the supply low so there's almost a black market for them."
I gave up. I was not going to pay 2x list price for black market toilets!
I ended up buying Kohler products and we never had problems with them.
And there's my strange-but-true toilet story!
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Glad ta hear everythin' came out well, aina?
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Might be putting in an offer for my first house----in IL (limited options in Kenosha and big time seller's market, it seems like). When should I contact a real estate attorney? Just at the closing, assuming my offer is accepted?
Yeah, Foxconn just drove up the value of any home immensely in the RKW area.
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Yeah, Foxconn just drove up the value of any home immensely in the RKW area.
It's so crazy. I saw a house in Kenosha on Saturday that was listed over 300k but sold for 204k in 2015.
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Might be putting in an offer for my first house----in IL (limited options in Kenosha and big time seller's market, it seems like). When should I contact a real estate attorney? Just at the closing, assuming my offer is accepted?
I have a recommendation if you'd like. $500 flat fee. He's in Chicago but I'm sure he would work in Lake County too. The only time he is there in person is at closing, the rest is over the phone/email. I would get in touch as soon as you are under contract.
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I have a recommendation if you'd like. $500 flat fee. He's in Chicago but I'm sure he would work in Lake County too. The only time he is there in person is at closing, the rest is over the phone/email. I would get in touch as soon as you are under contract.
Thanks, I sent you a PM!
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Thanks, I sent you a PM!
I think I sent you a PM back? But it isn't showing in my Sent Messages. Let me know if you didn't get it.
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I think I sent you a PM back? But it isn't showing in my Sent Messages. Let me know if you didn't get it.
Got it, thanks!
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When we bought our Chicago condo in 2004, we decided to change the 3 toilets to the "comfort height" toilets with the elongated bowl. I did my research and Toto toilets consistently rated the highest.
So I searched for them in Chicago ... and couldn't find any. Home Depot, Lowe's and the like didn't carry them, and nobody else had them in stock. I also couldn't find them online cheap enough to make it worth it to pay the high shipping costs. (This was before free shipping became widely available.)
I finally located them at a plumbing distributor near the West Loop. The employee said they would hold them for me but went to pick them up the next day they were gone.
I gave up. I was not going to pay 2x list price for black market toilets!
I ended up buying Kohler products and we never had problems with them.
And there's my strange-but-true toilet story!
We have three of them in our home in Chicago. Never clogs. Never. Best working toilets ever.
Got them from a plumbing distributor in Buffalo Grove. Had plenty in stock. No games to be played there. They were fair with us..
Ironically, our plumber who installed them just shook his head. "Gosh, I never imagined people would pay this much for a toilet," he said.
Heck, I didn't think it was that expensive -- especially for something that works.
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We have three of them in our home in Chicago. Never clogs. Never. Best working toilets ever.
Got them from a plumbing distributor in Buffalo Grove. Had plenty in stock. No games to be played there. They were fair with us..
Ironically, our plumber who installed them just shook his head. "Gosh, I never imagined people would pay this much for a toilet," he said.
Heck, I didn't think it was that expensive -- especially for something that works.
If you're paying less than $150 for a toilet, you're doing it wrong.
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If you're paying less than $150 for a toilet, you're doing it wrong.
Kinda like getting a good mattress, aina? You take out my time in bed and on the can and I've only got like 30% of my day left.
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We have three of them in our home in Chicago. Never clogs. Never. Best working toilets ever.
Got them from a plumbing distributor in Buffalo Grove. Had plenty in stock. No games to be played there. They were fair with us..
Ironically, our plumber who installed them just shook his head. "Gosh, I never imagined people would pay this much for a toilet," he said.
Heck, I didn't think it was that expensive -- especially for something that works.
Doggone it ... I wish I had this forum back then. I used to drive to Buffalo Grove to play golf fairly often. Woulda happily gone for a non-black-market Toto!!!
As I said, the Kohlers worked out just fine.
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If you're paying less than $150 for a toilet, you're doing it wrong.
You'll pay $25 for a pair of Duluth underwear but not $3 bills for a heated Toto Washlet?
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My Kohler toilets have never clogged either.
Played plenty of golf at the BG village golf course myself
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Kinda like getting a good mattress, aina? You take out my time in bed and on the can and I've only got like 30% of my day left.
I'm in line for a new mattress in the next 12 months, and I'm giddy. Just have to replace all the house windows first.
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I'm in line for a new mattress in the next 12 months, and I'm giddy. Just have to replace all the house windows first.
If you're in Chicago I highly recommend American Mattress. Family owned and good price
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If you're in Chicago I highly recommend American Mattress. Family owned and good price
Noted, thanks. Quality jingle too.
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I thought everyone bought mattresses online now?
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If you're in Chicago I highly recommend American Mattress. Family owned and good price
Or you can get the same mattress at Sam's club for a couple hundred less than AM's "best" price. But Sam's won't deliver.
On the toilets, we have a round one-piece Eljer in our master bath... small and simple. Does the job. Has only clogged once in the last 7 years. We put one of these (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BGWA48S/) on it, and frankly, there could be a 5 gallon bucket underneath and it wouldn't matter.
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You'll pay $25 for a pair of Duluth underwear but not $3 bills for a heated Toto Washlet?
Gotta wait one more day and the Armachillos will be on sale for $16.
As for mattresses, if you aren't buying them from the high school golf team fund raiser, you aren't living right.
When we built last year, my 3 requests were a good $hitter, a top notch bed and a big TV. The old lady got the rest of what she wanted.
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Gotta wait one more day and the Armachillos will be on sale for $16.
As for mattresses, if you aren't buying them from the high school golf team fund raiser, you aren't living right.
When we built last year, my 3 requests were a good $hitter, a top notch bed and a big TV. The old lady got the rest of what she wanted.
The local high school was running one of those a couple weeks back. I can't think of a worse fundraiser to be holding in a school parking lot on a cold March day.
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You'll pay $25 for a pair of Duluth underwear but not $3 bills for a heated Toto Washlet?
Are Duluth's that good? I excluded from them from my underwear testing of 2017. Why? Unsure. Anyways, the best performing pair for the money in my opinion were Under Armour's Boxerjock. Usually can get them for around $13 while the deals are out. Tested a solid 7-8 pairs. Saxx, Pair of Thieves, Ex Officio, Uniglo, Calvin Klein...wild stuff.
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Are Duluth's that good? I excluded from them from my underwear testing of 2017. Why? Unsure. Anyways, the best performing pair for the money in my opinion were Under Armour's Boxerjock. Usually can get them for around $13 while the deals are out. Tested a solid 7-8 pairs. Saxx, Pair of Thieves, Ex Officio, Uniglo, Calvin Klein...wild stuff.
only if you require firehose underwear after eating @ RC
I thought everyone bought mattresses online now ?-(
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only if you require firehose underwear after eating @ RC
We've all been there, but it's not a daily requirement.
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Are Duluth's that good? I excluded from them from my underwear testing of 2017. Why? Unsure. Anyways, the best performing pair for the money in my opinion were Under Armour's Boxerjock. Usually can get them for around $13 while the deals are out. Tested a solid 7-8 pairs. Saxx, Pair of Thieves, Ex Officio, Uniglo, Calvin Klein...wild stuff.
The Buck Nakeds tested well on the "coup de crotch” scale...
https://www.google.com/amp/host.madison.com/business/mike-tighe-undercover-probe-finds-buck-naked-truth-about-duluth/article_10e0e9cd-283d-56ab-83e1-10fb96987be9.amp.html
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I'm a Duluth snob. Love their stuff. Won't wear any pants or shorts, outside of dress pants, that aren't ballroom. About the only clothes that I buy elsewhere are golf shirts.
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Or you can get the same mattress at Sam's club for a couple hundred less than AM's "best" price. But Sam's won't deliver.
On the toilets, we have a round one-piece Eljer in our master bath... small and simple. Does the job. Has only clogged once in the last 7 years. We put one of these (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BGWA48S/) on it, and frankly, there could be a 5 gallon bucket underneath and it wouldn't matter.
How the hell am I supposed to get a king size mattress and box spring home (and up a flight of stairs to my bedroom) without delivery?
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Duluth undies are great. Pricey though. Wifey always gets me a few pairs for birthday/Christmas, so I haven't had to buy any.
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How the hell am I supposed to get a king size mattress and box spring home (and up a flight of stairs to my bedroom) without delivery?
Plus, who's taking the old one out?
Hard pass.
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Know wons admittin' ta swingin' commando, aina?
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Know wons admittin' ta swingin' commando, aina?
Onlee when I chit my draws heyna
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How the hell am I supposed to get a king size mattress and box spring home (and up a flight of stairs to my bedroom) without delivery?
Dolly. You tell them where, when, and what, and they'll get it for you. Price is based on distance, # of items, and how much work it will take them to drop it off (curbside, stairs, assembly, etc.) Option for one person to do it, two people, or one person plus you riding with them.
I've used it twice and been satisfied. Good for stores that don't deliver, small-scale moves, Craigslist purchases, etc.
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I'm a Duluth snob. Love their stuff. Won't wear any pants or shorts, outside of dress pants, that aren't ballroom. About the only clothes that I buy elsewhere are golf shirts.
Anything with the name Duluth on it gives me frostbite.
Not sure I want that at my most valuable parts.
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Talking about your underwear....some real fancy boys, a bunch of dandies you are.
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Anyone with recommendations for a real estate attorney that will service Kenosha County in WI?
If so, please send a PM. Thanks!
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#UnleashLaxBros, did you ever end up finding a house?
I lived in Cooper Park for 9 years before selling last year in preparation for our family growing. LAMUfan pointed you to the Enderis Park neighborhood which is just east of Cooper park. Cooper Park is from roughly 76th on the east, 92nd on the west, Center on south, and burleigh on North.
This is a FANTASTIC first home area and very affordable. Homes go from low 100's to around 200-ish. It's really quiet but close to (even walkable to if you have a beverage or two) Tosa amenities, a short drive to anywhere in the metro (My commute to work downtown was 12-ish min, sometimes less), and very tight neighborhood where everyone knows each other. Because of pricing and size of the post-war homes, ownership turnover is rather high... but that also means it's great for finding new homes for sale. That is especially true this time of year. You'll see several homes come on the market and sold every week.
I highly recommend giving it a look. You'll feel like you live in Tosa without the Tosa home prices.
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I'm in line for a new mattress in the next 12 months, and I'm giddy. Just have to replace all the house windows first.
If you're replacing windows, we did Replacements by Anderson about two years ago.
Really, really good quality. Quite expensive though but the savings in heating and cooling bills are astronomical.
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#UnleashLaxBros, did you ever end up finding a house?
I lived in Cooper Park for 9 years before selling last year in preparation for our family growing. LAMUfan pointed you to the Enderis Park neighborhood which is just east of Cooper park. Cooper Park is from roughly 76th on the east, 92nd on the west, Center on south, and burleigh on North.
This is a FANTASTIC first home area and very affordable. Homes go from low 100's to around 200-ish. It's really quiet but close to (even walkable to if you have a beverage or two) Tosa amenities, a short drive to anywhere in the metro (My commute to work downtown was 12-ish min, sometimes less), and very tight neighborhood where everyone knows each other. Because of pricing and size of the post-war homes, ownership turnover is rather high... but that also means it's great for finding new homes for sale. That is especially true this time of year. You'll see several homes come on the market and sold every week.
I highly recommend giving it a look. You'll feel like you live in Tosa without the Tosa home prices.
I never knew it was called Cooper Park, but based on your boundaries, My folks lived there for 20 years, of which I lived there for 10. In the 70s it was a good family raising area...although my Tosa friends were quick to remind me I was not in Tosa. lol
About 10 years ago ,on a reunion visit ,I walked the old house and street. One change had me laughing...while I was a kid every house was fenced along all backyards lines on each side but each was viewable/reachable from the alley. Now all backyard side fences between neighbors are torn down, but all now had high privacy fences along all backlines/alley.
So...When I was there the menace was apparently those darn neighbor kids next door(including us-lol)...now the threat is from strangers in the alley.
BTW I noticed almost all the businesses changed.... but Mama Mias (my first job was a $1.35/hr dishwasher) is open and even enlarged on Burleigh.
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Alas... Momma Mia's closed about 2 years ago. Probably too much competition coming from all the new places on North ave. Although there's some great places on 84th and Lisbon now.
The neighborhood is still a great place for families. It's probably 35% families, 40% young couples or young single people who didn't want to wait for marriage to own a home, and 25% long time residents. When the long time residents sell, the homes are rarely updated and it makes for a great investment for first time home owners who can update them before selling 5 or so later.
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BTW I noticed almost all the businesses changed.... but Mama Mias (my first job was a $1.35/hr dishwasher) is open and even enlarged on Burleigh.
Wow, $1.35/hr? My boi ZFB is currently a dishwasher and makes nearly 7 times that! Plus, they said if he goes another 2 months with no more disciplinary write-ups, he'll hit the $10/hr mark. #inflation
I just want to know if Unleash winds up paying hundreds to an attorney (unnecessarily).
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I just want to know if Unleash winds up paying hundreds to an attorney (unnecessarily).
If he’s smart he will.
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House still not bought boys. This lawyer/no lawyer thing keeps me up at nights.
Will look into cooper park
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House still not bought boys. This lawyer/no lawyer thing keeps me up at nights.
Will look into cooper park
Without taking sides in the lawyer/no lawyer debate as to which is the best course of action, if it really is keeping you up nights you should get a lawyer.
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Without taking sides in the lawyer/no lawyer debate as to which is the best course of action, if it really is keeping you up nights you should get a lawyer.
You took a side. The wrong one. Again. Tsk tsk.
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House still not bought boys. This lawyer/no lawyer thing keeps me up at nights.
Will look into cooper park
Unleash, the lawyer thing is very much a state by state situation. In WI, Lawyers are rarely, if ever used for a RE transaction of this type/size/scope. Because of that, experienced RE agents in WI are far better versed in the closing process and any good buyers agent will look out for YOU, not trying to close the transaction at any cost. That is how they build their business. It is a product of the laws in the different states. In Chicago, I'd say definitely get a lawyer. In WI, I don't know anyone who has used a lawyer for a transaction that wasn't a jumbo loan or commercial property.
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Regardless, I'm not sure why the lawyer thing would keep you up at night. In the grand scheme of things, it wouldn't be all that expensive anyway.
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You took a side. The wrong one. Again. Tsk tsk.
Nope. I didn't take a side on the lawyer thing. I don't care whether he gets one or not.
But if the very thought of not getting a lawyer is condemning him to sleepless night after sleepless night, he should rectify the situation.
Who knows? Maybe the very thought of paying $500 for a lawyer is what's keeping him up at nights. In that case, he should rectify the situation by NOT getting a lawyer.
I just want the poor guy to get some sleep.
FWIW (very, very little), I've been a no-lawyer guy in the majority of my real-estate transactions.
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I think UnleashRealChiliDook was being sarcastic with the no sleep at night, but please continue to fight and argue about lawyers. It's so much fun!
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I think UnleashRealChiliDook was being sarcastic with the no sleep at night, but please continue to fight and argue about lawyers. It's so much fun!
I guess I should have used teal. ;D
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I guess I should have used teal. ;D
I'm usually pretty good with my sarcas-o-meter. Musta had an off day.
Glad you're sleeping soundly.