Dilemma ... A little help?

[MU82]

Here's the deal ...

Most of y'all know I was raised Jewish and am now an atheist. I try not to be an in-your-face atheist, but I probably have failed a few times here on Scoop. In general, I keep it pretty low-key, in great part because my wife is still uncomfortable admitting she doesn't believe in God - especially at Christmastime, and especially in the Bible Belt where we now live.

Anyhoo ...

We got new next-door neighbors about 2 years ago, Debi and Tim. They are 60-ish and very nice, although the woman is a bit eccentric. We have not socialized with them (in other words, have not gone out to eat with them or done other such activities) but we are friendly with them - say hi whenever we see each other, make conversation, etc. They have a great dog, and they love our dog, and the two dogs like to play together. A few months back, we were going out of town and our dog-sitter got sick, and this couple watched our dog for an entire week. Above and beyond the call of duty. We gave them a $100 gift card to a nice restaurant to show how much we appreciated it; they nicely said it was their pleasure.

Anyhoo ...

About an hour ago, my dog starts barking her head off. I finally get off my arse to see what's going on, and it's Debi putting Christmas ornaments on the little Japanese maple tree about 20 feet outside our front door. She knows we love the Panthers, and they are Panthers-themed orbs.

Frankly, I couldn't believe it. If I were still a practicing Jew, with it being Hanukkah, I never would stealthily go to a neighbor's house and decorate it with menorahs and dreidels. But that's life in the Bible Belt.

So we have a couple of choices:

1. Live with it even though I really, really don't want Christmas ornaments on my effen tree. We'll never be best friends with Debi and Tim, but they live right next door, we want to keep the peace, and we might need them to watch our dog again.

2. Remove the ornaments and return them to Debi and Tim. Tell them we love having them as neighbors and we know they did it out of friendship, kindness and neighborliness, but politely explain that we are not religious people and we really don't want Christmas ornaments on our tree. We probably could "pull it off" better if we claim to be Jewish - I have found that folks here don't want to offend those from other religions, but they're less worried about atheists - but I absolutely will not lie about my beliefs (or lack thereof).

It would be a difficult conversation to have, and maybe better handled by a very nicely worded note? Although that would be a more wussy way to do it.

If it were up to my wife, I think we would choose Door No. 1. But she knows how I feel about it and is supporting me. She just asked me to wait till she gets home from work so we can talk about it and formulate a plan. I of course agreed ... although I did say that if Debi happens to see me when I'm walking the dog and asks me about it, I will have little choice to very politely tell her the truth.

Suggestions?

[GB Warrior]

Here's the deal ...

Most of y'all know I was raised Jewish and am now an atheist. I try not to be an in-your-face atheist, but I probably have failed a few times here on Scoop. In general, I keep it pretty low-key, in great part because my wife is still uncomfortable admitting she doesn't believe in God - especially at Christmastime, and especially in the Bible Belt where we now live.

Anyhoo ...

We got new next-door neighbors about 2 years ago, Debi and Tim. They are 60-ish and very nice, although the woman is a bit eccentric. We have not socialized with them (in other words, have not gone out to eat with them or done other such activities) but we are friendly with them - say hi whenever we see each other, make conversation, etc. They have a great dog, and they love our dog, and the two dogs like to play together. A few months back, we were going out of town and our dog-sitter got sick, and this couple watched our dog for an entire week. Above and beyond the call of duty. We gave them a $100 gift card to a nice restaurant to show how much we appreciated it; they nicely said it was their pleasure.

Anyhoo ...

About an hour ago, my dog starts barking her head off. I finally get off my arse to see what's going on, and it's Debi putting Christmas ornaments on the little Japanese maple tree about 20 feet outside our front door. She knows we love the Panthers, and they are Panthers-themed orbs.

Frankly, I couldn't believe it. If I were still a practicing Jew, with it being Hanukkah, I never would stealthily go to a neighbor's house and decorate it with menorahs and dreidels. But that's life in the Bible Belt.

So we have a couple of choices:

1. Live with it even though I really, really don't want Christmas ornaments on my effen tree. We'll never be best friends with Debi and Tim, but they live right next door, we want to keep the peace, and we might need them to watch our dog again.

2. Remove the ornaments and return them to Debi and Tim. Tell them we love having them as neighbors and we know they did it out of friendship, kindness and neighborliness, but politely explain that we are not religious people and we really don't want Christmas ornaments on our tree. We probably could "pull it off" better if we claim to be Jewish - I have found that folks here don't want to offend those from other religions, but they're less worried about atheists - but I absolutely will not lie about my beliefs (or lack thereof).

It would be a difficult conversation to have, and maybe better handled by a very nicely worded note? Although that would be a more wussy way to do it.

If it were up to my wife, I think we would choose Door No. 1. But she knows how I feel about it and is supporting me. She just asked me to wait till she gets home from work so we can talk about it and formulate a plan. I of course agreed ... although I did say that if Debi happens to see me when I'm walking the dog and asks me about it, I will have little choice to very politely tell her the truth.

Suggestions?

You mean you aren't packing to deal with trespassers?

I've always thought that conversation is the best course of action. I have a similar view as you that I feel that avoidance (whether through acceptance or lying about your faith) is a means to an end but ultimately benefits no one. If I am unfortunate to find myself in mass around the holidays with my family, I know others who are like-minded non-believers who were raised Catholic and still go up for communion. To me, this is the ultimate sign of disrespect to avoid an uncomfortable situation (not likely to have a dialogue, mind you, given the context).

It's an uncomfortable conversation for anyone, much more so in your part of the country. But it's a conversation worth having - how one can have an ethical worldview without it being firmly grounded in faith. When asked about mine, I don't shy away from the fact that I felt 16 years of Catholic education benefited me. I pull no punches when saying that MU was the best of these because it didn't teach faith as a fact (topic for another thread - the pedagogy of religion in developing minds). But the ethical abstraction of those teachings undoubtedly benefit me and how I interact with the world unless MU or the Packers are losing.

I truly believe this is one of the only ways we can begin to move forward as a society, however incrementally that may be.

[MerrittsMustache]

It's a nice gesture and her heart is in the right place. If she set up a Nativity scene, that be one thing but they're sports-themed decorations. I'd say let it go and when you see her, mention somewhat light-heartedly that you were raised Jewish so Christmas ornaments are a new concept for you Haha...neighbor small-talk...move on. Ideally, she'd get the message that you don't celebrate Christmas without you being a d!ck and giving the ornaments back


Side question: Do you simply not celebrate any sort of holiday(s) in December? As in, you don't acknowledge Hanukkah or Christmas are taking place? Have you given Festivus a try?

[Goose]

MU82

I would live it with it and maybe mention it in passing down the road. The gesture was nice and why make her feel badly.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Does she think it is her tree?  Weird if religious or not to decorate my neighbor's tree unless joking or good natured about your team. Considering they are not close friends, she may be confused as to her propoerty line?  That could be your conversation starter...

[MU82]

Side question: Do you simply not celebrate any sort of holiday(s) in December? As in, you don't acknowledge Hanukkah or Christmas are taking place? Have you given Festivus a try?

Correct. No holidays. Not even Festivus for the bestuvus.

We actually got invited to a non-religious gathering on Christmas Eve this year from one of my wife's work friends. It will be interesting to see. The hosts are non-practicing Christians but they do celebrate Christmas, but several of our fellow guests are atheists.

[jsglow]

A challenge for sure. Struggling to get my arms around putting decorations on someone else's tree. Personally I find that pretty presumptuous. While I wouldn't 'let it go', I'd find the least confrontational way possible to deal with it. The 'I was raised Jewish' is good.  This is legitimate white lie time.  Good luck and happy Festivus!

[MU82]

Does she think it is her tree?  Weird if religious or not to decorate my neighbor's tree unless joking or good natured about your team. Considering they are not close friends, she may be confused as to her propoerty line?  That could be your conversation starter...

Definitely nowhere near the property line. 100% our tree. She knew exactly what she was doing ... just didn't know the beliefs (or lack thereof) of the people she was doing it for.

[Eldon]

It's a nice gesture and her heart is in the right place. If she set up a Nativity scene, that be one thing but they're sports-themed decorations. I'd say let it go and when you see her, mention somewhat light-heartedly that you were raised Jewish so Christmas ornaments are a new concept for you Haha...neighbor small-talk...move on. Ideally, she'd get the message that you don't celebrate Christmas without you being a d!ck and giving the ornaments back


Side question: Do you simply not celebrate any sort of holiday(s) in December? As in, you don't acknowledge Hanukkah or Christmas are taking place? Have you given Festivus a try?

This response is absolutely perfect. 

Bro, you need to resist being "that guy"

Which guy?



That guy.  Don't be that guy.

[Eldon]

Definitely nowhere near the property line. 100% our tree. She knew exactly what she was doing ... just didn't know the beliefs (or lack thereof) of the people she was doing it for.

Plot twist: She, too, is an atheist, which is why she put Cam Newton--rather than an angel-- on top of the tree.

[StillAWarrior]

I think a polite conversation -- expressing your appreciation for the obvious attempt to be thoughtful and generous -- is the way to go.  I wouldn't focus on the "I grew up Jewish" angle, or you'll find a menorah on your front lawn at some point in the future.  I say go with total honesty, but tempered with a sincere expression of appreciation for the fact that she was trying to be kind.

[mikekinsellaMVP]

If you have this lying around your house, put it up on top of your tree and thank your neighbor for reminding you that, while not a Christian (or a practicing Jew), you are still a monotheist:



You can’t spell “Almighty” without “Al!”

[Benny B]

Christmas is December 25.  The NFL season ends December 31, and I presume that the general consensus is that Carolina will be playing into January.

So let's assume 82 takes no action... are the "orbs" otherwise being taken down on December 26th or are they going to be left up until Carolina's season is over.  Seriously.  Because if it's the latter, then that means they could still be hanging on February 4th, and honestly, I don't know of anyone who leaves Christmas decorations up until February.

So has anyone considered the possibility that these are "Carolina Panthers" ornaments and not Christmas ornaments?  Frankly, I don't see how anything sporting a Panther logo (or the logo of any NFL team, for that matter) could in any manner be construed by an objective person as being a symbol or celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ.  So don't ascribe something that isn't there to something you're otherwise happy to support.

In other words, eye of the beholder.  If you look at them as a celebration of your love of the Panthers and not as some sort of religious symbol, it will be all good in the neighborhood.

[GGGG]

MU82

I would live it with it and maybe mention it in passing down the road. The gesture was nice and why make her feel badly.

This.  She is trying to be a good neighbor and is doing something from her heart.  Be grateful she isn't a bad neighbor.  Have a conversation sometime later when the time is right. 

[mu03eng]

It's a bit of a tough one but I don't get the putting decorations on someone else's tree. That feels invasive and not "just being nice". Not saying that she is doing it to be mean or something but I wouldn't be surprised if she has some inkling of your affiliations or lack thereof and is being passive aggressive about it.

Either way I stand with Tecumseh on this one "So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours....". I wouldn't deflect behind the Jewish faith simply because it's not the reason it bothers you. I think Merritt's idea of turning it into a joke is the right approach, something like "It was pretty funny to see the Panther ornaments, we don't do Christmas, so I didn't know they came in those flavors" or something to that effect. I think you want to walk the line between confrontation but making sure to establish that this wasn't cool but without being a pain about it.

[reinko]

MU82

I would live it with it and maybe mention it in passing down the road. The gesture was nice and why make her feel badly.

I agree here with Goose & and Sultan, but don't wait too much long, I would before the end of January, so it's not even that much awkward and it's like mid-May and you come along, hey remember back in the first week of December, you did that weird thing with the ornaments?!?!

Maybe around New Years (eve of Panther's playoff game?), return the favor, and decorate one of her trees and leave a nice note?

 

[Spotcheck Billy]

But does your or their dog piss on that tree?

[Dr. Blackheart]

I agree here with Goose & and Sultan, but don't wait too much long, I would before the end of January, so it's not even that much awkward and it's like mid-May and you come along, hey remember back in the first week of December, you did that weird thing with the ornaments?!?!

Maybe around New Years (eve of Panther's playoff game?), return the favor, and decorate one of her trees and leave a nice note?

Don't get mad, get even. Invite them over to share some holiday cheer...or put a Bo Ryan Grinch blow up in their yard. Form a witch and warlock circle on their driveway.

[naginiF]

This response is absolutely perfect. 

Bro, you need to resist being "that guy"

Which guy?



That guy.  Don't be that guy.

Assuming they are not Panther ornaments but were meant as Christmas ornaments....why is it OK for her to assume he's christian and put celebratory religious objects in his yard and its not OK for 82 to tell her he's atheist?

To the situation I, as an atheist, would VERY graciously thank them for they gesture and make sure they understood my beliefs.  Just like if a thoughtful neighbor gifted you a Quran - they may think you are scholarly and wish to learn about religions or they may think you're Muslim.   I'm going to graciously explain to them I'm neither.

[warriorchick]

Always make someone else the scapegoat.   


"This was a lovely gesture, but my Jewish mother would have a literal stroke if she saw anything remotely resembling a Christmas tree on my property."


"I really, really like my landscape designer, and if she saw that I made any changes to her carefully-planned scheme without consulting her first, she would drop me as a client."


"I don't want to get in trouble with the HOA, and I am not sure these decorations are within the covenants.  I'd better take them down just to be on the safe side."

[CTWarrior]

Correct. No holidays. Not even Festivus for the bestuvus.

I'm a little surprised to hear that, although of course that is absolutely fine.  Over the years, it seems to me that Christmas has morphed into a secular holiday for a large part of the non-Christian world.  I work with several folks from India, none of whom are Christian, but most of whom put up Christmas trees and have Santa Claus bring gifts to their kids.  They look at it as joining American culture more than Christian culture.

As for your issue, I always find being direct and honest is the best policy.  If it really offends you to have the ornaments on the tree, tell your neighbors in the nicest way possible that the gesture was wonderfully nice of them, but that you are not particularly religious and would prefer to avoid the trappings of Christmas.  You could say non-Christian rather than non-religious, as that would certainly be the truth.  I wouldn't lie and say Jewish.  Tell them you value their friendship and hope this doesn't cause an issue.  Most people are very understanding about such things.  (And if they're not, well, you don't need that in your life anyway.) 

I'm a mid 50s Catholic and I would not be the least bit upset or offended if my neighbors told me they were atheist, and I would retain friendship with them.  After all, going to Hell is their business.  Of course I would never presume to decorate someone else's yard, either.

[MU82]

I am reading all of these, folks. Please keep 'em coming.

The funny ones made me chuckle, but I especially appreciate the serious ones. It really is a difficult dilemma for me and my wife.

My wife (who is at work) just asked me to take a pic and send it to her, which I did. Here's the response she texted back to me:

"WOW ... that is ballsy. Lots of nerve, I must say. And they light up? Of course they do. Why do I even ask? We'll talk about this later and figure it out."

I am not going to answer every one of your comments because I don't want to start arguing Point A, B and C, and then having others come back arguing their points. I do appreciate the gentle debate between some of you.

I plan to share this thread with my wife so she can read others' ideas as we discuss our options ... so please keep it clean!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Decorating someone else's property? That's a bold strategy Cotton.

I tend to do a risk/benefit analysis in these situation. Is the benefit of not having your tree forcibly decorated (now and in the future, because this could happen every year) worth the risk of possibly damaging the neighborly relationship you have with these people? Only you can answer that.

FWIW, I think you are well within your rights to take the ornaments down and talk to your neighbor. As others have said, her actions come from a good place so recognizing that would be important.

Personally, I am non-confrontational so I probably wouldn't say anything (even if I wanted to). Lucky for me I married a New Yorker so my wife would go confront them for me! 

[warriorchick]

It's too bad you actually caught them in the act.

Otherwise, you could have called the police and reported it as an act of vandalism.

[GB Warrior]

It's too bad you actually caught them in the act.

Otherwise, you could have called the police and reported it as an act of vandalism.

It's only vandalism if it's Vikings-themed.