Dilemma ... A little help?

[ATL MU Warrior]

Well, at least it's not a burning cross.

That'll come later after you neglect to move away

[MU82]

That'll come later after you neglect to move away

I shyte you not: When I was in HS, I dated the daughter of the Grand Imperial Wizard of the Connecticut KKK.

I knew he was a bigot, but didn't know he was a Klansman until a few years later. He used to introduce me as his "Jewish friend" and would say, "He's not a bad guy considerin' he's a bagel boy."

If he had known I was shtuppin' his daughter, I'm pretty sure there might have been a burning cross in my parents' yard!

[Dr. Blackheart]

I shyte you not: When I was in HS, I dated the daughter of the Grand Imperial Wizard of the Connecticut KKK.

I knew he was a bigot, but didn't know he was a Klansman until a few years later. He used to introduce me as his "Jewish friend" and would say, "He's not a bad guy considerin' he's a bagel boy."

If he had known I was shtuppin' his daughter, I'm pretty sure there might have been a burning cross in my parents' yard!

Went for the girl with “Daddy Issues”, aina?

[4everwarriors]

I shyte you not: When I was in HS, I dated the daughter of the Grand Imperial Wizard of the Connecticut KKK.

I knew he was a bigot, but didn't know he was a Klansman until a few years later. He used to introduce me as his "Jewish friend" and would say, "He's not a bad guy considerin' he's a bagel boy."

If he had known I was shtuppin' his daughter, I'm pretty sure there might have been a burning cross in my parents' yard!

Hope ya used a raincoat. Might have been battery acid in dat cave, ai na?

[MU82]

Tanks fore yoor cunsern!

[WarriorFan]

Wish I would have read this earlier... my first advice probably would have been to cut down the tree!

My best advice would have been to claim offense, not on the basis of religion, but on the basis of being a Green Bay Pakers fan!

[dgies9156]

Hey, this is always an interesting discussion. It's easier here in an anonymous interwebs setting. It's much more difficult to have, face-to-face, with friends and family.

When we told my wife's side of the family (Catholics) years ago that we were going to raise our children without religion, most of them cut off any association with her. One day, they "loved" her; the next, they wanted nothing to do with her. They're a bunch of a-holes and racists - I'm not misusing either term; they use all kinds of slurs, with their favorite being "tacos" for Mexicans - but we're the immoral ones because we choose not to believe in God. It would be funny if not so sad. This could have harmed our marriage, but my very strong wife's reaction was, "Eff 'em then!"

There are some who believe one can't be moral and decent if one doesn't include God in their lives. We obviously feel differently. There are good and bad people who call themselves Christians, good and bad people who call themselves Jewish, good and bad people who call themselves Muslim, etc ... and good and bad people who call themselves atheists. I won't speak for myself, but I haven't met many people as kind, moral, ethical, decent and big-hearted as Mrs. 82.

Wow.

Religion almost always is a contentious issue, but this seems a little over the top.  I feel for you and the difficulty of relationships with Mrs. MU82's parents. That's really sad.

The beauty of our country is you can be a druid if you want. Heck, the constitution even protects snake handling religions in the hills of Kentucky. We may think worshiping through snake handling is for the birds, but we continue to treat our peers with respect and we don't cut 'em off. That's because the framers of our constitution recognized that we're all equal and we're all in this together.

For those of us who believe, being a Christian means loving everybody, even if we don't share their views, beliefs and thoughts about the betterment of humanity. I believe Jesus once urged us, "love your neighbor as yourself."

Good luck and we do feel for you.

[MU82]

Wow.

Religion almost always is a contentious issue, but this seems a little over the top.  I feel for you and the difficulty of relationships with Mrs. MU82's parents. That's really sad.

The beauty of our country is you can be a druid if you want. Heck, the constitution even protects snake handling religions in the hills of Kentucky. We may think worshiping through snake handling is for the birds, but we continue to treat our peers with respect and we don't cut 'em off. That's because the framers of our constitution recognized that we're all equal and we're all in this together.

For those of us who believe, being a Christian means loving everybody, even if we don't share their views, beliefs and thoughts about the betterment of humanity. I believe Jesus once urged us, "love your neighbor as yourself."

Good luck and we do feel for you.

Very nice sentiments, dg. Honestly, I wasn't trying to get anybody to feel sorry for us. We have a GREAT life. If I ever write my memoirs, the word "lucky" will be in the title somewhere. Despite a little adversity (something pretty much everybody faces sometimes), I've been a very lucky guy!

It's actually my wife's extended family that are the a-holes. Her mom died before we had kids, and her dad, although distant, has been OK. She has a small family, so the few aunts, uncles and cousins are very close-knit. It was the "top cousin" who cast aside my wife, and many others followed. Their loss! For me, the bonus is that I don't have to go to any more of their racist family events - ha!

I find religion to be a fascinating topic but it of course it also can be a divisive one. I try not to "pick fights" with anybody, so that means tempering the conversation for the audience. One of my best friends became a born-again Christian, and he's now almost impossible to have a conversation with, and that's OK because I know it. We talk almost exclusively about sports now.

I remember that after ex-Twin Gary Gaetti became born-again, it changed the dynamic in the Twins clubhouse. Asked about the effect of Gaetti's new-found religion on their friendship, Kent Hrbek likened it to "a death in the family." That's harsh, but it was Hrbek expressing his honest feelings. They didn't suddenly hate each other, but the once-almost-brother bond was gone. It was nobody's "fault." It just happened.

[tower912]

A healthy take.   I generally try to live my faith, not evangelize it.     I have had co workers over the years who tried to evangelize me, the Catholic, as I wasn't a true Christian and needed to be born again.   It puts a strain on the relationship.     I remember having a theological argument with a co worker, a CRC-Calvinist.    Tempers were getting heated.    I sent him completely around the bend when I said "What are you getting pissed at?    According to your faith, we were pre-destined to have this bull**** argument.   According to mine, I freely chose it."   Bobber down.  He didn't find that funny at all.   

[Benny B]

A healthy take.   I generally try to live my faith, not evangelize it.     I have had co workers over the years who tried to evangelize me, the Catholic, as I wasn't a true Christian and needed to be born again.   It puts a strain on the relationship.     I remember having a theological argument with a co worker, a CRC-Calvinist.    Tempers were getting heated.    I sent him completely around the bend when I said "What are you getting pissed at?    According to your faith, we were pre-destined to have this bull**** argument.   According to mine, I freely chose it."   Bobber down.  He didn't find that funny at all.

I haven't been evangelized since that Spring Break shuttle back in 99, which didn't go too well for the thumpers (think Bartleby sitting in General Mitchell Airport... that was me), so I have to give it to the evangelicals, they know when to quit.  Even the elders and witnesses skip my house now (evidently they do keep very good records). 

Either that, or they've collectively decided they don't want me in their club.

[MerrittsMustache]

I'll flip this around, MM - again, with respect - because I also am curious.

Why are some Scoopers (perhaps even you) so adamant that my wife and I should be willing to leave Christmas decorations we didn't want in our tree? Are you THAT opposed to the concept of non-Christians choosing not to celebrate Christmas? Does the idea of atheism offend you in some great capacity?

Thanks for responding, MU82.

I personally wasn't adamant about keeping the decorations up. I thought that it would be a nice gesture to keep them up (especially since they were sports-themed) and then casually mention you were raised Jewish so ornaments are new to you/aren't your thing. It would show that you appreciate the gesture but it wasn't necessarily wanted. As an outsider, I viewed it as a neighbor attempting to be neighborly and not as a Christian attempting to push her beliefs on someone else.

As for me, I'm Catholic and I 100% believe in God. If someone doesn't want to believe in God, that's his or her prerogative. If someone thinks it's ridiculous to believe in God, that's his or her prerogative. I wouldn't try to push my beliefs onto someone of a different faith. Religion is a very personal thing.

There's a Jewish family at my kids' Catholic school. At drop-off on Tuesday, the mom wished me a Happy Hanukkah. She obviously knows that I don't celebrate Hanukkah but I didn't view that interaction as her attempting to push her beliefs on me. I think it was a simple pleasantry from someone who was excited to be celebrating an important holiday to her faith. In the same respect, I don't think that anyone wishing another person a Merry Christmas is doing anything other than saying "Have an enjoyable few weeks."

Yes, Christmas is by pure definition a Christian holiday, but I feel like Christmas and the "Christmas season" can be about whatever you want it to be about. In my family, we try to stress that it's about celebrating the birth of Jesus, but also that it's an opportunity to time spend with loved ones and to be reminded of how blessed we are and that we should be doing more to help the less fortunate, not only now but throughout the year. In other words, I don't think that Christmas HAS to be about religion.

[MU82]

I remember having a theological argument with a co worker, a CRC-Calvinist.    Tempers were getting heated.    I sent him completely around the bend when I said "What are you getting pissed at?    According to your faith, we were pre-destined to have this bull**** argument.   According to mine, I freely chose it."

I love it!

[Galway Eagle]

Thanks for responding, MU82.

I personally wasn't adamant about keeping the decorations up. I thought that it would be a nice gesture to keep them up (especially since they were sports-themed) and then casually mention you were raised Jewish so ornaments are new to you/aren't your thing. It would show that you appreciate the gesture but it wasn't necessarily wanted. As an outsider, I viewed it as a neighbor attempting to be neighborly and not as a Christian attempting to push her beliefs on someone else.

As for me, I'm Catholic and I 100% believe in God. If someone doesn't want to believe in God, that's his or her prerogative. If someone thinks it's ridiculous to believe in God, that's his or her prerogative. I wouldn't try to push my beliefs onto someone of a different faith. Religion is a very personal thing.

There's a Jewish family at my kids' Catholic school. At drop-off on Tuesday, the mom wished me a Happy Hanukkah. She obviously knows that I don't celebrate Hanukkah but I didn't view that interaction as her attempting to push her beliefs on me. I think it was a simple pleasantry from someone who was excited to be celebrating an important holiday to her faith. In the same respect, I don't think that anyone wishing another person a Merry Christmas is doing anything other than saying "Have an enjoyable few weeks."

Yes, Christmas is by pure definition a Christian holiday, but I feel like Christmas and the "Christmas season" can be about whatever you want it to be about. In my family, we try to stress that it's about celebrating the birth of Jesus, but also that it's an opportunity to time spend with loved ones and to be reminded of how blessed we are and that we should be doing more to help the less fortunate, not only now but throughout the year. In other words, I don't think that Christmas HAS to be about religion.

The word literally means the mass of Christ.

I’m a big proponent of it’s not pushing religion saying merry Christmas or happy Hanukkah but to say merry christmas can mean anything seems a bit much. If that were the case there’s no reason not to just say happy holidays.

Better yet we should all say merry winter solstice since that’s the whole reason Christmas (and the older pagan holidays) are when they are in the first place.

[MU82]

Thanks for responding, MU82.

I personally wasn't adamant about keeping the decorations up. I thought that it would be a nice gesture to keep them up (especially since they were sports-themed) and then casually mention you were raised Jewish so ornaments are new to you/aren't your thing. It would show that you appreciate the gesture but it wasn't necessarily wanted. As an outsider, I viewed it as a neighbor attempting to be neighborly and not as a Christian attempting to push her beliefs on someone else.

As for me, I'm Catholic and I 100% believe in God. If someone doesn't want to believe in God, that's his or her prerogative. If someone thinks it's ridiculous to believe in God, that's his or her prerogative. I wouldn't try to push my beliefs onto someone of a different faith. Religion is a very personal thing.

There's a Jewish family at my kids' Catholic school. At drop-off on Tuesday, the mom wished me a Happy Hanukkah. She obviously knows that I don't celebrate Hanukkah but I didn't view that interaction as her attempting to push her beliefs on me. I think it was a simple pleasantry from someone who was excited to be celebrating an important holiday to her faith. In the same respect, I don't think that anyone wishing another person a Merry Christmas is doing anything other than saying "Have an enjoyable few weeks."

Yes, Christmas is by pure definition a Christian holiday, but I feel like Christmas and the "Christmas season" can be about whatever you want it to be about. In my family, we try to stress that it's about celebrating the birth of Jesus, but also that it's an opportunity to time spend with loved ones and to be reminded of how blessed we are and that we should be doing more to help the less fortunate, not only now but throughout the year. In other words, I don't think that Christmas HAS to be about religion.

Thanks for the post, MM.

I understand your reasoning. I just disagreed with it because, simply, we don't want Christmas ornaments in our tree. I doubt our neighbors had an "agenda." I do think they were being nice.

I do not try to push my atheism on anybody. I rarely even mention it. If somebody asks me, or if we get a discussion going, I'll talk about it.

There are 325 million people in America and the person you mentioned who said Happy Hanukkah to non-Jews is probably one of less than a dozen people who does that. I have joked about saying it as a response to those who wish me a Merry Christmas but I've decided it's not worth the time or potential confrontation.

I wonder if your Jewish lady is being something other than merely "pleasant." Seems passive-aggressive to me to wish Happy Hanukkah to somebody you KNOW isn't Jewish. Hanukkah is a relatively unimportant Jewish holiday, anyway ... but most American Jews feel they have to compete with the Christians in the gift-giving realm.

Folks who say Merry Christmas ... I'm immune to it. It's white noise to me. "Thanks, same to you." They might as well be saying, "Enjoy this stalk of celery." I realize the default assumption in America is that everybody celebrates Christmas. I try not to take silly stuff like that personally.

If I were a serious Catholic or any other kind of Christian, I'd be bummed that Christmas has been hijacked by corporations, the media and political d-bags. Fox News (and its favorite viewer's) constant whining about "the war on Christmas" is embarrassing. But I'm not Christian, serious or otherwise, so I'm mostly bemused by it. From this outsider's perspective, Christmas seems to have very, very little to do with Jesus Christ. I mean, Jesus doesn't care if you get a new iPhone or beer-of-the-month club membership. It's a consumer orgasmatron.

I also get a kick out of people who never even consider helping those less fortunate the other 11 months of the year suddenly feeling generous in December. It's nice that they're generous at all, I get that, but there are homeless people in February, impoverished families in May and needy orphans in September, too.