It only gets worse for Bucky

[MU82]

Some kids WANT to go to other parts of the country.

People forget that sometimes.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

A word of warning: Don't declare the Badgers a dead program until you see absolute, indisputable evidence. I mean, something like a pack of vultures stripping the carcass down to bare bones.

While I agree with your post-- I saw way too many instances of extremely questionable Badger teams inexplicably do well-- I think it is very different without Bo.  Why?  Talent level.

Bo is undoubtedly partially responsible.  The mess he left behind wasn't dissimilar to Buzz's departure.  there just isn't much talent there.  Bo's now Junior class is absolutely useless beyond Happ.  (They didn't lose Van Vliet, BTW, he is glued to the bench due to suckitude.)  Their soph's and freshman are, at best, mediocre.  For some reason they expect walk-ons to make significant contributions.  And they have what, one 2-star coming in next year?

Bo's last years of recruiting were hindered by him have one foot out the door and the other in the massage parlor, and Gard has whiffed terribly so far.  Let's hope they give him the full 5 years to decide.

[GrimmReaper33]

While I agree with your post-- I saw way too many instances of extremely questionable Badger teams inexplicably do well-- I think it is very different without Bo.  Why?  Talent level.

Bo is undoubtedly partially responsible.  The mess he left behind wasn't dissimilar to Buzz's departure.  there just isn't much talent there.  Bo's now Junior class is absolutely useless beyond Happ.  (They didn't lose Van Vliet, BTW, he is glued to the bench due to suckitude.)  Their soph's and freshman are, at best, mediocre.  For some reason they expect walk-ons to make significant contributions.  And they have what, one 2-star coming in next year?

Bo's last years of recruiting were hindered by him have one foot out the door and the other in the massage parlor, and Gard has whiffed terribly so far.  Let's hope they give him the full 5 years to decide.

Bucky's talent isn't great but it's not as bad as you or others make it sound.  Their current Freshmen class was one of the highest rated classes they've ever had.  Let's not forget 2 of their 3 Freshmen were offered and recruited by Wojo- King and Reuvers.  I think it's safe to assume we'd all be singing a different tune about their potential if they were at MU.  I really like King's game and Reuvers has skills, Davison is the ultimate flopper but he's also a decent shooter.  Trice was also a 40% three point shooter last year as a Freshmen.  Again, not loaded but there are some pieces there to work with.

What it all comes down to though, is can Gard develop those pieces and supplement them with more guys?  Their 2018 class looks like a bust after Herro leaving, so 2019 will be important.  Also, would probably be smart of Gard to try and dip into the grad transfer pool.  Not time to write Gard or the UW program's obituary yet.

[KampusFoods]

Bucky's talent isn't great but it's not as bad as you or others make it sound.  Their current Freshmen class was one of the highest rated classes they've ever had.  Let's not forget 2 of their 3 Freshmen were offered and recruited by Wojo- King and Reuvers.  I think it's safe to assume we'd all be singing a different tune about their potential if they were at MU.  I really like King's game and Reuvers has skills, Davison is the ultimate flopper but he's also a decent shooter.  Trice was also a 40% three point shooter last year as a Freshmen.  Again, not loaded but there are some pieces there to work with.

What it all comes down to though, is can Gard develop those pieces and supplement them with more guys?  Their 2018 class looks like a bust after Herro leaving, so 2019 will be important. Also, would probably be smart of Gard to try and dip into the grad transfer pool.  Not time to write Gard or the UW program's obituary yet.

Don't you know that Wisconsin doesn't do "Rent-a-player"?

[Silkk the Shaka]

I completely disagree with this.  I don't think UW being good at basketball has any impact on the quality of recruits coming out of Wisconsin.  Interest in UW means more kids wear UW sweatshirts to school and UW shorts to their middle school practices, but it doesn't translate to the high level recruits.  Those types of kids are extremely driven and will be good regardless of how much interest there is in UW hoops.  UW is our main competition for recruits, casual fans and media attention.  I don't see any way having UW be good helps MU.

Co-sign

I hope they rot in the B1G basement for decades

[GrimmReaper33]

Don't you know that Wisconsin doesn't do "Rent-a-player"?

True!  At least Bo didn't.. Gard did reach out to Duane this past year, FWIW.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Show me a state that has a 100% record with its top talent. Of the 5 star guys only Looney and Stone have left.  Wisconsin has been turning out a lot more 4 stars but 5 stars it comes down to Butch, (arguably) Vander, Dekker, Looney, Ellenson, Stone. 4/6 ain't too shabby considering neither school is a blue blood

Tokoto.  So, of the five stars Bucky was after recently (the F4 run years when supposedly WI AAU was rising), Bucky missed on J.P., Diamond, Looney, Ellenson and Joey, but scored on Dekker. One of six for the state school who was the finalist in all but Henry.  How did this help Bo/Gard?  Like Crean, they couldn't even cash in on their Final Four runs.

Btw, with Joey to come to break that mold, not a great track record of Wisconsin five star talent clicking in the NBA.  Buzz did better with just the JUCOs. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

True!  At least Bo didn't.. Gard did reach out to Duane this past year, FWIW.

Really? Honestly surprising giving Duane had expressed his feelings about Madison a few times and not in a good way.

But I know they were a finalist for Casey Benson, a grad transfer from Oregon. Ended up going to Grand Canyon (his brother is an assistant coach there). So Gard is definitely open to grad transfers.

[GrimmReaper33]

Really? Honestly surprising giving Duane had expressed his feelings about Madison a few times and not in a good way.

But I know they were a finalist for Casey Benson, a grad transfer from Oregon. Ended up going to Grand Canyon (his brother is an assistant coach there). So Gard is definitely open to grad transfers.

Yes, really.  Never went anywhere as Duane was not interested.  I don't know if it was a "F no" from Duane or a "Thanks, but no thanks" but he let them know he wasn't interested.

[GrimmReaper33]

Tokoto.  So, of the five stars Bucky was after recently (the F4 run years when supposedly WI AAU was rising), Bucky missed on J.P., Diamond, Looney, Ellenson and Joey, but scored on Dekker. One of six for the state school who was the finalist in all but Henry.  How did this help Bo/Gard?  Like Crean, they couldn't even cash in on their Final Four runs.

Btw, with Joey to come to break that mold, not a great track record of Wisconsin five star talent clicking in the NBA.  Buzz did better with just the JUCOs.

To be fair, of all those 5 star guys you list Dekker has probably had the best NBA career to date.  JP was just a guy at UNC and hasn't really sniffed the NBA, and UW was better than UNC during his stretch there.  Looney fell in the draft and hasn't made much of an impact in the league.  In Stone and Henry's one year in college, Bucky went to the sweet 16.  Stone fell to the 2nd round and is in the D League.  Henry fell out of the lottery and bounces back between the D League and NBA bench.  Of all the guys you list, Dekker had the best college career and NBA career, to date.   Just saying.

I do think Joey was the biggest miss for them, though.  Especially since he's probably that really good for 2+ years type guy, instead of one and done.

[Herman Cain]

This is a real viper's nest in here, to be honest I don't think that much about UW outside of our game with them and don't care about their program intrinsically. But I have been entertaining the following:

1. Wisconsin (the state) high school recruiting pool has gotten better in the last 5-10 years
2. Both MU and Wisconsin have been good at the same time for much of the last 15-20 years.
3. Having 2 nationally relevant D1 programs in the state has improved the quality of high school basketball
4. Having UW be good makes recruiting easier for MU

just curious whether other people agree with 1) and have considered 2-4.

From an over 50 year perspective I would say yes 1 is true. Although I believe this development is more a function of AAU programs that give players access to better competition . Back in my day few white country kids would come into my neighborhood to improve their games.

I have long thought having our program and Wisconsin program strong at the same time was a plus for us. Kids and parents can be parochial in their views and having two strong programs in a state lessens that thought process.

[GB Warrior]

From an over 50 year perspective I would say yes 1 is true. Although I believe this development is more a function of AAU programs that give players access to better competition . Back in my day few white country kids would come into my neighborhood to improve their games.

I have long thought having our program and Wisconsin program strong at the same time was a plus for us. Kids and parents can be parochial in their views and having two strong programs in a state lessens that thought process.

I agree with this, and this is why I asked the pseudo serious question about when this ceases to be funny. It's no fun for your rival to be beaten down for a long period of time. That said, this year is good for my soul.

[94Warrior]

True!  At least Bo didn't.. Gard did reach out to Duane this past year, FWIW.

Bo tried to do the rent-a-player thing at least twice with Stone and Looney, AND FAILED!!!
It was well known that both were one-and-done during their recruitment, but that didn't stop UW.
Only after losing to Duke did Bo move the goalposts and state how superior he was by not playing the rent-a-player game.  Clearly, it wasn't for a lack of trying. 
Badger fans lapped it up, like they did with all things said by Bo. 

[Galway Eagle]

Tokoto.  So, of the five stars Bucky was after recently (the F4 run years when supposedly WI AAU was rising), Bucky missed on J.P., Diamond, Looney, Ellenson and Joey, but scored on Dekker. One of six for the state school who was the finalist in all but Henry.  How did this help Bo/Gard?  Like Crean, they couldn't even cash in on their Final Four runs.

Btw, with Joey to come to break that mold, not a great track record of Wisconsin five star talent clicking in the NBA.  Buzz did better with just the JUCOs.

Tokoto was not a five star not close. He was 70th espn, 60 something 247 and 45 rivals. That puts him as much of a five star as Duane Wilson and deonte burton.

[GooooMarquette]

A word of warning: Don't declare the Badgers a dead program until you see absolute, indisputable evidence. I mean, something like a pack of vultures stripping the carcass down to bare bones.

Think back to this point two years ago. The Badgers had lost Kaminsky, Dekker, Jackson, Dukan and Gasser. Bo Ryan, off to a shaky start with losses to Western Illinois, UW-M and Marquette, unexpectedly retires in the wake of a sex scandal. Greg Gard steps in as head coach and proceeds to lose 4 of the next 7 games. UW was 9-9, 1-4 in the Big Ten. Dead program, right?

The Badgers went 11-2 the rest of the regular season and made the Sweet 16.

So far this season, the Badgers are 9-10, 2-4 in the Big Ten. They've lost 3 in a row, including a 28-point drubbing by Purdue. Despite all that, and the loss of Van Vliet, King and Trice, the team is still ranked in the Top 100 according to KenPom.com and has just one loss to a sub-Top 100 team (Rutgers).

I'm not saying UW is a good team. Or that they're going to turn in another remarkable finish. Or that the future of the program looks bright. But after being a fan of MU for more than 25 years, I've learned not to count out the Badgers.

The big difference is that two years ago, most of their losses were close.  When they were sitting at 9-9, they only had one 10+ point loss (17 points to #7 Oklahoma) and hung close to #14 Purdue (lost by 6) and #3 Maryland (lost by 3).  Decent team that lost good games.

This season, they have four 10+ point losses, including 19 points to unranked MU, 25 to tOSU and 28 to Purdue.  Bad team that’s losing laughers.

[Skitch]

Bo tried to do the rent-a-player thing at least twice with Stone and Looney, AND FAILED!!!
It was well known that both were one-and-done during their recruitment, but that didn't stop UW.
Only after losing to Duke did Bo move the goalposts and state how superior he was by not playing the rent-a-player game.  Clearly, it wasn't for a lack of trying. 
Badger fans lapped it up, like they did with all things said by Bo.

They're talking about one year graduate strangers not one and dones.

[The Lens]

They're talking about one year graduate strangers not one and dones.

Yes, where Bo railed on the Grad Transfers at the same school that celebrates "Alum" Russell Wilson.

[GGGG]

Yes, where Bo railed on the Grad Transfers at the same school that celebrates "Alum" Russell Wilson.

To be fair, most UW fans I know of don't agree with Bo's thoughts on grad transfers.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Yes, where Bo railed on the Grad Transfers at the same school that celebrates "Alum" Russell Wilson.

Bo was asked about grad transfers a press conference.  This was when Russell Wilson was either at or just finished at UW.  Bo said, "I don't care what other programs at this university do.  I don't take grad transfers."

Now Gard appears to feel differently.

[Spotcheck Billy]

They're talking about one year graduate strangers not one and dones.

Bo said that after losing to Duke, what grad transfers did Duke have back then? I think Bo meant OaD players

[Dr. Blackheart]

Tokoto was not a five star not close. He was 70th espn, 60 something 247 and 45 rivals. That puts him as much of a five star as Duane Wilson and deonte burton.

I remember him Top 25 circa 2010 when Roy was in WI every other week.  I could be wrong but he did slip certainly over time as he couldn't shoot.  Similar to Jamil Wilson.

My questions stand: Is Wisconsin AAU overrated?  And how has it helped Bucky recently to become elite?

[GooooMarquette]

Bo was asked about grad transfers a press conference.  This was when Russell Wilson was either at or just finished at UW.  Bo said, "I don't care what other programs at this university do.  I don't take grad transfers."

Now Gard appears to feel differently.

If they do it now, would it be a gard transfer?

[lohaus]

This is a real viper's nest in here, to be honest I don't think that much about UW outside of our game with them and don't care about their program intrinsically. But I have been entertaining the following:

1. Wisconsin (the state) high school recruiting pool has gotten better in the last 5-10 years
2. Both MU and Wisconsin have been good at the same time for much of the last 15-20 years.
3. Having 2 nationally relevant D1 programs in the state has improved the quality of high school basketball
4. Having UW be good makes recruiting easier for MU

just curious whether other people agree with 1) and have considered 2-4.

I agree that the recruiting in Wisconsin has improved in the last 5 to 10 years mostly due to abundance of AAU tournaments.  I also see more parents putting their money into shooting 'specialists', strength and conditioning programs, etc.

I don't see how having Wisconsin being better at basketball makes the overall talent pool better.  Personally, I am happy to see Bucky floundering for a season.  I think it will be different when they get their injured guards back.

[Marcus92]

I remember him Top 25 circa 2010 when Roy was in WI every other week.  I could be wrong but he did slip certainly over time as he couldn't shoot.  Similar to Jamil Wilson.

My questions stand: Is Wisconsin AAU overrated?  And how has it helped Bucky recently to become elite?

FYI, this MUScoop post called out when Tokoto dropped from 5-star status according to rivals. Unfortunately, the link to the rivals site no longer works.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21357.0

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I really like King's game and Reuvers has skills, Davison is the ultimate flopper but he's also a decent shooter.  Trice was also a 40% three point shooter last year as a Freshmen.  Again, not loaded but there are some pieces there to work with.

I haven't seen Kobe King play but understand that he probably has the most potential.  But amongst Reuvers, Trice, Davison, Pritzl, Ford, and their seeming multitude of currently red-shirted freshmen, would you classify any of them as significantly better than mediocre?  Davison is playing worse and worse as the year goes on, Ford is invisible, Pritzl can't shoot, and Trice wasn't anything to get excited about IMO.  Maybe Reuvers has a chance to develop. 

Can't say there is a single one I'd open up a roster spot at MU for.  I think out talent level across the board is better at every position other than perhaps Happ.