Bitcoin

[JWags85]

Seeing how this has moved historically, I wouldn't be surprised to see $30,000 by Jan 1, and then a pull back closer to $23,000

[Heisenberg]

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
An NFL first: #Panthers OT Russell Okung will receive half of his $13M in salary in Bitcoin. As part of a partnership with @in_strike and thanks to creative payroll solutions from the #Panthers, @RussellOkung will fulfill the goal he set when he tweeted "Pay me in Bitcoin!"

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1343929946918543363

[Dish]

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
An NFL first: #Panthers OT Russell Okung will receive half of his $13M in salary in Bitcoin. As part of a partnership with @in_strike and thanks to creative payroll solutions from the #Panthers, @RussellOkung will fulfill the goal he set when he tweeted "Pay me in Bitcoin!"

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1343929946918543363

This is 100% wrong.

He was paid in US$, that were then converted to Bitcoin. Dumbest story I keep hearing about all day. He was NOT paid in Bitcoin.

[Tortuga94]

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
An NFL first: #Panthers OT Russell Okung will receive half of his $13M in salary in Bitcoin. As part of a partnership with @in_strike and thanks to creative payroll solutions from the #Panthers, @RussellOkung will fulfill the goal he set when he tweeted "Pay me in Bitcoin!"

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1343929946918543363

Well, you know what they say about a fool and his money...clearly Mr Okung is not working with an advisor acting as a fiduciary for him. No one would recommend he put so much of his net worth into such a volatile asset. Especially when his career and ability to make the money he's making could end on the next snap.

My firm doesn't allow us to buy any form of crypto for our clients, but of course we have clients that ask about it. I tell them it's okay to take a SMALL position if they want to, but it could very easily end up worthless some day.

Nothing is stopping the SEC from labeling any of the cryptos as a security, in which case they would get slammed, just like what happened to Ripple. I do know XRP is different from ETH and BTC in that it is actually issued by a company and not a decentralized form of currency, but the SEC has a very broad definition of what is a security and I think for the most part people are buying cryptos, not as a store of value or a form of currency, but for asset appreciation, which would definitely classify them as securities.

[Hards Alumni]

Well, you know what they say about a fool and his money...clearly Mr Okung is not working with an advisor acting as a fiduciary for him. No one would recommend he put so much of his net worth into such a volatile asset. Especially when his career and ability to make the money he's making could end on the next snap.

My firm doesn't allow us to buy any form of crypto for our clients, but of course we have clients that ask about it. I tell them it's okay to take a SMALL position if they want to, but it could very easily end up worthless some day.

Nothing is stopping the SEC from labeling any of the cryptos as a security, in which case they would get slammed, just like what happened to Ripple. I do know XRP is different from ETH and BTC in that it is actually issued by a company and not a decentralized form of currency, but the SEC has a very broad definition of what is a security and I think for the most part people are buying cryptos, not as a store of value or a form of currency, but for asset appreciation, which would definitely classify them as securities.

You're going to hate hearing about these new fangled horseless carriages.

[jesmu84]

Since I'm the OP, I thought I'd jump in here.

I'm sad to say I never bought into any cryptos. Until yesterday. Sure, I have a bit of FOMO.. But I'm now investing what I can afford to lose. Obviously I won't be making near the gains as if I had started back in 2017, but I'm just gonna purchase and hold and see where it gets me.

A guy I follow says 10% of net worth should be in cryptos. I'm not anywhere near that number and am not shooting for it

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I will most likely never invest in cryptos.  Too volatile for my taste.

I can reach all of my financial goals without it.  I have no FOMO.

[Hards Alumni]

I will most likely never invest in cryptos.  Too volatile for my taste.

I can reach all of my financial goals without it.  I have no FOMO.

Is Tesla volatile?

[rocket surgeon]

Seeing how this has moved historically, I wouldn't be surprised to see $30,000 by Jan 1, and then a pull back closer to $23,000

hit $33,099.90 for sure at about 9:33 am this morning.  sitting at $32,500.  i'd love for it to drop to $23k.  i was watching it at $18-19 hoping for $16-17k...my basis has been $13k so far, so i have some room to play and only a couple grand invested so this is just kinda for fun.  even more fun when it goes up though

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Is Tesla volatile?

I certainly wouldn't expect a 900% yearly return ever again.

[Hards Alumni]

39250 currently.

Doubled in a month.

[forgetful]

39250 currently.

Doubled in a month.

I think bitcoin is the epitome of the irrational aspects of investing right now.

It isn't based really on anything. Just wild speculation/gambling. People with excess cash looking for the next "big runup." Mostly a lot of people with excess cash trying to strike it rich, because they heard a friend make a big profit off x in just 2-weeks.

What happens when the fed stops providing all the free easy cash?

[MUBurrow]

Nothing is stopping the SEC from labeling any of the cryptos as a security, in which case they would get slammed, just like what happened to Ripple. I do know XRP is different from ETH and BTC in that it is actually issued by a company and not a decentralized form of currency, but the SEC has a very broad definition of what is a security and I think for the most part people are buying cryptos, not as a store of value or a form of currency, but for asset appreciation, which would definitely classify them as securities.

My hot take is that cryptos should be classified as a security, because the bolded is an oxymoron.  The very essence of what makes curency currency is that it is issued by a centralized body, and is subject to the political whims of that issuer. For better or worse the strength and forecasts for currency is a proxy for the political and economic conditions of the country (or theoretically NGO) issuing it.  Something isn't currency becuase you can buy stuff with it - that is just trade, and it doesn't make either side of a deal currency.  Bitcoins are generated on an equation that gradually reduces the number of bitcoins that are issued until they cease to be issued.  That's not currency, that's an artificially created resource to which we have decided to attribute value.  That is a security.

[Hards Alumni]

I think bitcoin is the epitome of the irrational aspects of investing right now.

It isn't based really on anything. Just wild speculation/gambling. People with excess cash looking for the next "big runup." Mostly a lot of people with excess cash trying to strike it rich, because they heard a friend make a big profit off x in just 2-weeks.

What happens when the fed stops providing all the free easy cash?

Incorrect.  Institutions are buying.  Didn't take you for someone who comments without due diligence.

[forgetful]

Incorrect.  Institutions are buying.  Didn't take you for someone who comments without due diligence.

I probably shouldn't have posted in this thread. It was merely an opinion.

I'm not known for my investing knowledge or prowess and I reserve the right to be absurdly wrong.

That said, I should probably have stopped with "people with excess cash". Institutions are part of that group.

I still think there will be a problem when the fed stops backstopping the market, and they have to unwind all their debt. The question is when that occurs.

COI statement: I am selling all my bitcoin.

[Hards Alumni]

My hot take is that cryptos should be classified as a security, because the bolded is an oxymoron.  The very essence of what makes curency currency is that it is issued by a centralized body, and is subject to the political whims of that issuer. For better or worse the strength and forecasts for currency is a proxy for the political and economic conditions of the country (or theoretically NGO) issuing it.  Something isn't currency becuase you can buy stuff with it - that is just trade, and it doesn't make either side of a deal currency.  Bitcoins are generated on an equation that gradually reduces the number of bitcoins that are issued until they cease to be issued.  That's not currency, that's an artificially created resource to which we have decided to attribute value.  That is a security.

What?  I'm not sure you understand what currency is.  Was the USD a security under the gold standard?  Is the Dash that Venezuelans use as currency everyday, somehow not currency?

Currency must only be:

Scarce
Fungible
Divisible
Durable
Transferable

Cryptos are all of those.  Ask the Hungarians in 1946 if their currency was worth the paper it was printed on... or the Germans in 1923... or Zimbabweans all the way back in 2008.  Hell, the Fed has been printed 22% of the total circulation in 2020 alone.

[Hards Alumni]

I probably shouldn't have posted in this thread. It was merely an opinion.

I'm not known for my investing knowledge or prowess and I reserve the right to be absurdly wrong.

That said, I should probably have stopped with "people with excess cash". Institutions are part of that group.

I still think there will be a problem when the fed stops backstopping the market, and they have to unwind all their debt. The question is when that occurs.

COI statement: I am selling all my bitcoin.

That I don't totally disagree with.  I'm not sure that the fed backstopping the market is going to crush BTC.  Personally, I think we will see USD inflation get out of control and BTC is a hedge against this.  The USD is the world's reserve currency... and it is backed by faith in the US govt and its military (if we're being totally honest).  If the world loses confidence in the USD, where will it look to replace the USD as the world reserve currency?  Who is the most stable government in the world that isn't the US?  China?  England?  Eurozone?  Hard question to answer.  Either way, when my dollarydoos start to be worth less and less in comparison to other currencies I would like to have an option.  BTC is the option for me.

Also, congrats on your gains!

[MUBurrow]

What?  I'm not sure you understand what currency is.  Was the USD a security under the gold standard?  Is the Dash that Venezuelans use as currency everyday, somehow not currency?

Currency must only be:

Scarce
Fungible
Divisible
Durable
Transferable

Cryptos are all of those.  Ask the Hungarians in 1946 if their currency was worth the paper it was printed on... or the Germans in 1923... or Zimbabweans all the way back in 2008.  Hell, the Fed has been printed 22% of the total circulation in 2020 alone.

I should have been more specific. I was responding to a post about SEC regulation.  Anything can be used as currency. And the value of those currencies rises and falls vis a vis other currencies. But the fact that cryptocurrency bears that title and can be used as a means of exchange doesn't and shouldn't preclude it from being deemed a security.  Trading in cryptos is a lot different than say, forex trades, and I think cryptos benefit from a widespread failure to appreciate the difference.

[Hards Alumni]

I should have been more specific. I was responding to a post about SEC regulation.  Anything can be used as currency. And the value of those currencies rises and falls vis a vis other currencies. But the fact that cryptocurrency bears that title and can be used as a means of exchange doesn't and shouldn't preclude it from being deemed a security.  Trading in cryptos is a lot different than say, forex trades, and I think cryptos benefit from a widespread failure to appreciate the difference.

What Is a Security?

The term "security" refers to a fungible, negotiable financial instrument that holds some type of monetary value. It represents an ownership position in a publicly-traded corporation via stock; a creditor relationship with a governmental body or a corporation represented by owning that entity's bond; or rights to ownership as represented by an option.

Where is the publicly traded stock?  Which governmental body or corporation?  Where are the rights to ownership as an option? Cryptos are non-governmental backed currency.

I am self taught in finances, and my knowledge of a lot of this stuff is somewhat basic... but you don't need to dunk to be able to watch basketball.  You're clearly a knowledgeable dude regarding financial legality, etc... but I think there is a extreme lack of knowledge about what cryptos are, and there are a lot of people who like to listen to 'traditional' sources regarding crypto and take them as gospel.  But cryptos are a relatively new idea, and I think that a lot of those 'traditional' experts have made comments about cryptos without educating themselves about it. 

[Skatastrophy]

Hards, you play pretty fast and loose with the term 'currency'

Until the price of things are pegged in BTC instead of USD (or another real currency) then BTC is just a medium of exchange... just like it was designed to be.

[Hards Alumni]

Hards, you play pretty fast and loose with the term 'currency'

Until the price of things are pegged in BTC instead of USD (or another real currency) then BTC is just a medium of exchange... just like it was designed to be.

Not really, you can buy plenty of things in BTC currently.  Some people have lived off of their BTC for years.  You can't spend it at Walgreens, but you can't spend Euros at Walgreens either.

I'm not playing fast and loose with it at all.

[Skatastrophy]

Not really, you can buy plenty of things in BTC currently.  Some people have lived off of their BTC for years.  You can't spend it at Walgreens, but you can't spend Euros at Walgreens either.

I'm not playing fast and loose with it at all.

I don't disagree. My point is that things purchasable with BTC have their value pegged in USD.

Thing A is $30, and purchasable with BTC or via normal means. Thing A is never pegged to 0.00075 Bitcoin.

That's like me asking for either $30 or $30 of water for Thing A. Both Bitcoin, and any other good, could be a means of exchange. The currency they are pegged to, though, is USD. There's a reason that so many stablecoins exist.

[Hards Alumni]

I don't disagree. My point is that things purchasable with BTC have their value pegged in USD.

Thing A is $30, and purchasable with BTC or via normal means. Thing A is never pegged to 0.00075 Bitcoin.

That's like me asking for either $30 or $30 of water for Thing A. Both Bitcoin, and any other good, could be a means of exchange. The currency they are pegged to, though, is USD. There's a reason that so many stablecoins exist.

That's fair, but not fully accurate either.  There are folks out there who would take more (or less) BTC for the sale of a house than they would using USD. 

Also, using your example, couldn't I just replace BTC with Eurobucks or British Pounds??  What if I changed to something more volatile, such as Turkish Lira?  Sure, the price is set in USD, but it is set in USD as a conversion of the other currency... but I'd be willing to bet you'd rather have BTC in your possession over Turkish Lira.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Torture....

https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1349003444217065479?s=21

[Hards Alumni]

Torture....

https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1349003444217065479?s=21

He isn't alone, there are millions of BTC that have been eliminated from the supply over the years because of similar mistakes.