MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on November 29, 2017, 03:11:34 PM
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If we haven't already invested... Should we?
https://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/john-mcafee-says-hell-eat-his-own-dick-if-bitcoin-isnt-at-1-million-before-2020
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There are no closer seats for Jiggsey to move up to. So no
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I got $100 in Bitcoin as a gift several months ago which turned out to be about 0.04 Bitcoins. It is now worth over $500 lol. Pretty fun to check Coinbase and see it go up nearly every day. Other cryptocurrencies have done even better in the last year as far as % increase goes (see Ethereum and Litecoin).
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I got $100 in Bitcoin as a gift several months ago which turned out to be about 0.04 Bitcoins. It is now worth over $500 lol. Pretty fun to check Coinbase and see it go up nearly every day. Other cryptocurrencies have done even better in the last year as far as % increase goes (see Ethereum and Litecoin).
a few years ago I mined 3 or 4 litecoin thinking they'd never amount to much. Holding onto the hard drive and my wallet on it seems like a good idea.
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If I was gonna drop $1k in a crytocurrency as an investment, is bitcoin the best choice?
Anyone with more than casual insight?
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If I was gonna drop $1k in a crytocurrency as an investment, is bitcoin the best choice?
Anyone with more than casual insight?
The cryptocurrency space is a little like the 3D printing and cyber security spaces were a few years back. A winner (or more likely a few winners) will emerge but most will fall by the wayside.
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If I was gonna drop $1k in a crytocurrency as an investment, is bitcoin the best choice?
Anyone with more than casual insight?
Why do you think it will go up? Why do you think it hit $10k today?
Answer those and they will tell us what you should do.
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Why do you think it will go up? Why do you think it hit $10k today?
Answer those and they will tell us what you should do.
Oh. My bad. I didn't know it wasn't allowed to ask for advice on this board as plenty of have done before. Thanks for your push towards self-reliance.
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Oh. My bad. I didn't know it wasn't allowed to ask for advice on this board as plenty of have done before. Thanks for your push towards self-reliance.
No, you misunderstood
Do you believe that crypto-currencies have a legit future? Or are you taking a punt because they are going parabolic?
No wrong answer. How you view them will determine what you should do.
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I own more Ethereum than bitcoin (3x more Ethereum). I find they behave according to basic technical analysis so I buy and sell them based on support/resistance, retracements etc.
I also think they are a massive bubble. I do not think that is a bad thing as the price could still go way higher. And I think they are legit longer-term as they are going to become a legit store of value and a medium of exchange. A massive bubble will cause the adoption of them to come faster than it would otherwise.
They will do to banking what Uber did to Taxis. Governments cannot ban them because governments do not control the internet.
They could be the biggest disruptor since the internet itself.
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Mike Novogratz on Bitcoin and Cryptocurrencies:
“This whole revolution came out of a breakdown of trust. It came out of the ’08 financial crisis when people said we no longer trust financial institutions, we don’t trust governments and, in parts of the world, today still. If you’re in Venezuela, it’s really hard to trust the central bank, or in Zimbabwe. So, the decentralized revolution, which Bitcoin is really the poster child of, is a response to the breakdown in trust.”
I would add that year of 0% interest rates also helped the adoption of Crypto-currencies. No lost opportunity if you get nothing in a traditional bank account.
(Mike is a hedge fund manager that started a crypto-fund about two years ago. On paper, he is a billionaire. I should have listened to him two years ago.)
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Bitcoin story today ...
Coinbase had a record traffic day on its website, It has bogged down their site all day. It was down for a portion of the morning. Coinbase is the largest source of BUYING (they 13 million retail accounts, Schwab has 10.6 million for comparison). This lack of buying is being cited as the reason for the sell-off once it hit $11,400.
Additionally, Fidelity has a crypto-wallet. You cannot buy/sell crypto-currencies on Fidelity but you can connect it to coinbase account and track them. Coinbase traffic today was so huge that it even bogged down fidelity's website as well.
This is the story going around today.
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Thanks for the info, Jiga
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I will be watching from the sidelines. Hope everyone else does well though.
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I do some financial writing, but bitcoin is not in my wheelhouse.
I wish good fortune to all who give it and similar currencies a whirl.
My only advice: "Investor, know thyself."
Know your own risk tolerance. Know how you personally can handle wild price swings. Know how you would feel if your investment lost 90% - I am NOT saying this will happen, but every investor needs to know such things about themselves.
And learn about exactly what you're investing in. I have made the mistake of investing in things I don't really understand. It rarely ended well, and it wasn't fun.
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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mark-cuban-bitcoin-collectible-currency-152121444.html
Unless any of you are NBA officials, you might want to listen to what Mark Cuban has to say on this one.
Main takeaway: “It’s going to be very difficult for it to be a currency when the time and expense of doing a transaction is 100 times what you can do over a Visa or MasterCard, right?”
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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mark-cuban-bitcoin-collectible-currency-152121444.html
Unless any of you are NBA officials, you might want to listen to what Mark Cuban has to say on this one.
Main takeaway: “It’s going to be very difficult for it to be a currency when the time and expense of doing a transaction is 100 times what you can do over a Visa or MasterCard, right?”
Bitcoin = secure, anonymous transactions
credit market = not so much.
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Here is an interesting article on bitcoin and similar currencies:
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4128352-xunlei-reminds-us-blockchain-stocks-bitcoin-substitutes?ifp=0&app=1
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I mentioned in the last thread that I owned both Bitcoin and Ethereum, I bought them through coinbase.
I also purchased shares of GBTC in my Roth IRA. I sold that 2 days ago will probably buy it again when it comes back down. It has gone up way too fast in a very short time frame. I bought the GBTC shares in October for $680 and sold for $1510. A rise like that in such a short time frame is usually not sustainable so I took my profits, figured if it continues to go up I do own a some through Coinbase.
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I mentioned in the last thread that I owned both Bitcoin and Ethereum, I bought them through coinbase.
I also purchased shares of GBTC in my Roth IRA. I sold that 2 days ago will probably buy it again when it comes back down. It has gone up way too fast in a very short time frame. I bought the GBTC shares in October for $680 and sold for $1510. A rise like that in such a short time frame is usually not sustainable so I took my profits, figured if it continues to go up I do own a some through Coinbase.
Investing in cryptos is analogous to buying the VIX... there are going to be spikes and dips in the short term, which makes it possible to turn a serious profit (or loss), but over time, it's a losing proposition because of one simple fact:
THEY HAVE NO INTRINSIC VALUE (except possibly as a hedge against the major currencies, which I'll say it again... if the world banks all go to hell, people aren't going to give two sh|ts about bitcoin or ethereum... they're going to more interested in how many pounds of grain or iodine tablets you have to trade).
Cryptos are essentially the laserdiscs and HD-DVD's of currency trading... even though they will never win out, certainly, they have utility; the question is for how long.
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Bitcoin = secure, anonymous transactions
credit market = not so much.
This, exactly. Which, in addition to pure speculation, is why the value is rocketing: it is the new medium for money laundering. Dirty money goes in, anonymously, and then gets sold back for crisp, clean, cash.
There is a reason Putin and other oligarchs are huge backers of bitcoin
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This, exactly. Which, in addition to pure speculation, is why the value is rocketing: it is the new medium for money laundering. Dirty money goes in, anonymously, and then gets sold back for crisp, clean, cash.
There is a reason Putin and other oligarchs are huge backers of bitcoin
Also, buying illegal things on the dark web.
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Also, buying illegal things on the dark web.
I'm thinking Manafort and others are cursing that they didn't use bitcoin instead of Wilber Ross's Bank of Cyprus.
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Bitcoin crashed nearly 20% yesterday.
It's still up significantly this year, but yesterday is a classic example of the currency's volatility and the reason I repeat: "Investor, know thyself."
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Bitcoin crashed nearly 20% yesterday.
It's still up significantly this year, but yesterday is a classic example of the currency's volatility and the reason I repeat: "Investor, know thyself."
Not really a fair assessment, considering the low point yesterday was at $9400ish.... the same price it was three days earlier.
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Not really a fair assessment, considering the low point yesterday was at $9400ish.... the same price it was three days earlier.
I wasn't trying to be fair or unfair. I merely presented a fact and some reasonable advice for any investor.
Fact: It crashed nearly 20% yesterday.
Reasonable advice: Investors should be in tune with their risk tolerance before investing in bitcoin - or anything else.
Not sure how one could take issue with any of that.
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I wasn't trying to be fair or unfair. I merely presented a fact and some reasonable advice for any investor.
Fact: It crashed nearly 20% yesterday.
Reasonable advice: Investors should be in tune with their risk tolerance before investing in bitcoin - or anything else.
Not sure how one could take issue with any of that.
Because it also got to that level a few days earlier. Sure it was a fact, but I think the whole picture here matters a lot.
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I wasn't trying to be fair or unfair. I merely presented a fact and some reasonable advice for any investor.
Fact: It crashed nearly 20% yesterday.
Reasonable advice: Investors should be in tune with their risk tolerance before investing in bitcoin - or anything else.
Not sure how one could take issue with any of that.
If 20% is a “crash” then that was the 7th this year, and the second in November.
And as I noted in the other thread bitcoin had separate 70%, 80% and 90% declines. So it has also survived three collapses as well.
This is what your dealing with in bitcoin
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If 20% is a “crash” then that was the 7th this year, and the second in November.
And as I noted in the other thread bitcoin had separate 70%, 80% and 90% declines. So it has also survived three collapses as well.
This is what your dealing with in bitcoin
For the second time this week, Smuggles, we agree on something posted here on Scoop! Wow!
It's practically time to hold hands and sing "We Are The World"!
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Bitcoin topped $11,600 this morning, a new All-time high.
Its last all-time high was Tuesday, “crashed” more than 20% that day as well, and back at a new high 5 days later.
Friday’s news that the CBOT and CBOE will list a futures contract on that will start trading on December 18th is considered a huge positive. It gives it more legitimacy and makes a future ban even harder.
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Bitcoin topped $11,600 this morning, a new All-time high.
Its last all-time high was Tuesday, “crashed” more than 20% that day as well, and back at a new high 5 days later.
Friday’s news that the CBOT and CBOE will list a futures contract on that will start trading on December 18th is considered a huge positive. It gives it more legitimacy and makes a future ban even harder.
So, Cramer, you're saying "BUY BUY BUY"?
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So, Cramer, you're saying "BUY BUY BUY"?
Yes, for now ... understanding you are buying into a risky bubble that has a non-trivial chance of going to zero. If you accept those risks, then do it.
Tom Lee of stratfund advisors has a simple model that can explain nearly 100% of bitcoins price movements. Everyday Coinbase, the site with 13 million accounts, publishes the number of accounts outstanding and the average trade size. This has almost a perfect fit to bitcoin’s price. To be clear, these statistics explain that day’s price movement. Today’s statistics do not explain tomorrow’s price movement.
The point is their are no sellers of bitcoin, only buyers. It goes down when accounts that already own them sell. It goes up in a parabolic fashion because accounts and money are pouring into Coinbase at a parabolic fashion.
What would get bitcoin to crash 70% to 90%, like it has in the past, is something that would make those 13 million accounts fear their money is a risk and rush to sell and close their accounts. A government ban, (another) massive hack, or another “fork” top this list.
(Bitcoin ‘s rules and structure are decided by its community in a form of a democracy ... whatever the majority wants. Their is big disagreement about what it’s structure should look like. Every so often it’s gets redesigned or has a “fork.” One of the biggest was a spin off into a new crypto-currency called “bitcoin cash” or BCH. Its architecture makes it easier to use as cash. BCH, again is separate from bitcoin or BTC, is over $1500 and soaring as well.)
With the approval of bitcoin futures on government regulated exchanges starting in 2 weeks, the possibility of a government ban just went way down. They just blessed bitcoin!! So that leaves a hack, a big fork, or a major systems failure as your major risk.
Without one of these events, there is no way to sell/short and no way for the price to decline. Yes futures are going to be the first and only way to short bitcoin, but that is expected to be limited and small. Futures are a net positive for bitcoin, the appearance of government acceptance is a far bigger positive than the negative of a way to short them. (Regarding government banning bitcoin, the Chinese government did just that in January. That has not stopped the Chinese from continuing to trade it on “cold storage” exchanges. Point is, like much of the internet, the government cannot control it and there are real questions if a ban can actual work.)
Surveys of bitcoin show the higher the price goes, the less people think it is a bubble. This is why it’s parabolic nature is so important, or why some like me freely acknowledge it is a risky bubble and that is a good thing. If the price continues to soar, and legitimate companies consider accepting it, Bitcoin can be the biggest disruption since the Internet itself. For instance, if Amazon decides to except that as payment, it legitimatizes and thousands of retailers will follow suit. The price could double or more on that news, in the US dollar would have some serious competition down the road.
In conclusion, what you’re seeing is the birth of something that can compete with the dollar and traditional banking. All births are difficult, ugly and chaotic, as this one is too. And it still has a chance to be stillborn. But if it does take off and gain legitimacy, saying it is the biggest disruption since the Internet itself is an understatement.
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Yes, for now ... understanding you are buying into a risky bubble that has a non-trivial chance of going to zero. If you accept those risks, then do it.
Buying bitcoin is not investing, it is gambling, pure and simple and should be taxed as such.
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Buying bitcoin is not investing, it is gambling, pure and simple and should be taxed as such.
It isn't gambling at all. It is currency speculation. Enormous difference.
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It isn't gambling at all. It is currency speculation. Enormous difference.
+1
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Yes, for now ... understanding you are buying into a risky bubble that has a non-trivial chance of going to zero. If you accept those risks, then do it.
Thanks for the advice and the interesting read, Smuggles.
I agree with you about the risks, and I am not comfortable with them. It's not my investing style.
I wish you and other speculators good fortune.
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Bitcoin crashed nearly 20% yesterday.
It's still up significantly this year, but yesterday is a classic example of the currency's volatility and the reason I repeat: "Investor, know thyself."
Almost 14k today
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Almost 14k today
If it goes to 100k tomorrow, I still won't go, "Damn, I shoulda got some." I know myself as an investor, and I don't do the speculative stuff. My tummy can't handle it.
I wish those who invest in bitcoin (and anything else) good fortune.
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If it goes to 100k tomorrow, I still won't go, "Damn, I shoulda got some." I know myself as an investor, and I don't do the speculative stuff. My tummy can't handle it.
I wish those who invest in bitcoin (and anything else) good fortune.
No, I totally get that, but if you have a couple of grand you can afford to 'lose'...
and now overnight its nearing 16k
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No, I totally get that, but if you have a couple of grand you can afford to 'lose'...
I often think of that, but I worry that it will lead to almost kind of a gambling addiction. I did dabble with all kinds of speculative stuff back in 2000 - about 11 seconds before the dot-com bust. That went well.
Plus, I have not 1 but 2 weddings to help pay for in 2018 so I don't have any thousands I can afford to lose right now. Both my daughter and my son are getting married. Not to each other, though. Despite our politics, NC isn't quite Kentucky ... yet!
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Would anyone here feel bad for profiting off of Bitcoin? The majority use of Bitcoin is nefarious/illegal.
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Would anyone here feel bad for profiting off of Bitcoin? The majority use of Bitcoin is nefarious/illegal.
Not even close to being correct.
Price hit $20,000 today and the Gdax exchange (largest, most important) went down and all he’ll broke loose.
They are opening over 100,000 accounts a day and have seen a 10x increase in traffic since June.
Total size of bitcoin has topped $300 billion, more than $450 billion for all cryptos.
Futures trading starts Sunday night
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Would anyone here feel bad for profiting off of Bitcoin? The majority use of Bitcoin is nefarious/illegal.
Good question. I honestly cannot ignore everything else that's wrong with Bitcoin to even think objectively about whether any dark money behind bitcoin would have any influence on my decision.
But lets be clear... Jiggy might actually be right that the majority of Bitcoin is not nefarious/illegal, at least no longer. Six months ago, sure; however, I'm guessing 99% of the black market, drug dealer, and human trafficking bitcoin was sold when it hit 10,000.
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Would anyone here feel bad for profiting off of Bitcoin? The majority use of Bitcoin is nefarious/illegal.
Have you heard about what some people have done with the US$
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Two of my children are invested and I hope they make a bundle. They understand the risk and one of them sold out out initial investment and going along for the ride. I think if you have some cash that you can risk and can stomach the swings, swing for the fences. I believe it is going much, much higher and I mean much, much higher.
For the record, I am only an observer and likely will remain on the sidelines.
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I have my investing goals. I have a plan to reach them and am right on track. I do not need to be rich, just financially secure. I do not have the time to be a day trader, which I think is the only way to profit on the wild swings in cryptocurrencies.
Good luck if you are in Bitcoin or any other cryptos. They are not for me. And I'm not even afraid that I'm missing out.
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Would anyone here feel bad for profiting off of Bitcoin? The majority use of Bitcoin is nefarious/illegal.
Nope.
I invest in tobacco stocks, companies that make bombs, alcohol stocks, companies that make products leading to obesity, major polluters (like oil companies and chemical companies), gun manufacturers, etc.
My job is to provide financial security for my family. If one invests in the stock market at all - and I'm including the index funds in most 401ks and IRAs - it is just about impossible to avoid investing in companies that avoid all moral and ethical dilemmas.
I don't invest in bitcoin for a variety of reasons; who uses bitcoin isn't one of them.
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If money laundering, they how about these guys? Run by the same guy (Jamie Dimon) that said in September that bitcoin is a fraud, and index of money laundering and will blow up.
November 17, 2017
Swiss regulator finds JPMorgan broke money-laundering rules
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jpmorgan-swiss/swiss-regulator-finds-jpmorgan-broke-money-laundering-rules-idUSKBN1DH1UC
Swiss financial markets authority FINMA has found that the Swiss subsidiary of U.S. investment bank JPMorgan (JPM.N) broke anti-money laundering rules, a Swiss court document showed.
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I have my investing goals. I have a plan to reach them and am right on track. I do not need to be rich, just financially secure. I do not have the time to be a day trader, which I think is the only way to profit on the wild swings in cryptocurrencies.
Good luck if you are in Bitcoin or any other cryptos. They are not for me. And I'm not even afraid that I'm missing out.
You cannot day trade on Bitcoin. Also, anyone with any sense is just holding their BTC... Or buying.
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Oh yes you can day trade bitcoin!! You can on Gdax, the largest and most important exchange, run by coinbase.
If you are not familiar with coinbase, today's New York Times had a fascinating profile of them (Coinbase runs Gdax, their institutional cryptocurrency exchange. Coinbase is the retail exchange)
Coinbase: The Heart of the Bitcoin Frenzy
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/technology/coinbase-bitcoin.html?_r=0
In fact, most of the trading is day trading. And like most day trading, very little of it is done by humans. Gdax has a API (application programming interface) that you can connect your computer directly to the exchange.
If you know about this stuff, it is very easy. You can run it from a laptop on a Starbucks connection (I'm guilty of exactly this)
https://github.com/topics/gdax-api
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Happy for all the speculators doing well. I am enjoying it from the sidelines. The US government will be collecting tax dollars from the trading profits. When peoples tax bills come due i, will be interesting to see the price action in response to liquidations.
In the meantime I am quietly depositing my US Dollar denominated dividend checks.
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The cryptocurrencies will last right up until quantum computing becomes a thing then it'll all go away.
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Happy for all the speculators doing well. I am enjoying it from the sidelines. The US government will be collecting tax dollars from the trading profits. When peoples tax bills come due i, will be interesting to see the price action in response to liquidations.
In the meantime I am quietly depositing my US Dollar denominated dividend checks.
Dividends also get taxed.
And having so much money that I have a large tax bill would be a pleasant problem to have. Then I could call myself a job creator and reap the rewards of the new tax cut for billionaires!
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Oh yes you can day trade bitcoin!! You can on Gdax, the largest and most important exchange, run by coinbase.
If you are not familiar with coinbase, today's New York Times had a fascinating profile of them (Coinbase runs Gdax, their institutional cryptocurrency exchange. Coinbase is the retail exchange)
Coinbase: The Heart of the Bitcoin Frenzy
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/technology/coinbase-bitcoin.html?_r=0
In fact, most of the trading is day trading. And like most day trading, very little of it is done by humans. Gdax has a API (application programming interface) that you can connect your computer directly to the exchange.
If you know about this stuff, it is very easy. You can run it from a laptop on a Starbucks connection (I'm guilty of exactly this)
https://github.com/topics/gdax-api
But there are delivery times on the transactions.... So, no not really. You can buy, then wait a week for delivery, then turn around and sell it... but you can't buy then sell them in the same day.
https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/1392022-why-does-a-buy-take-so-long
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But there are delivery times on the transactions.... So, no not really. You can buy, then wait a week for delivery, then turn around and sell it... but you can't buy then sell them in the same day.
https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/1392022-why-does-a-buy-take-so-long
What you say is true on coinbase, but Not on Gdax, settlement is instantaneous and their is no transaction fee (as long as you are a market-maker and submit limit orders).
If you have a coinbase account, your credentials work on Gdax, you can transfer your money and coins instantly and without a fee.
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What you say is true on coinbase, but Not on Gdax, settlement is instantaneous and their is no transaction fee (as long as you are a market-maker and submit limit orders).
If you have a coinbase account, your credentials work on Gdax, you can transfer your money and coins instantly and without a fee.
Ah, gotcha.
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Ah, gotcha.
Coinbase owns Gdax which is why coinbase credentials work on gdax.
Gdax = Global Digital Asset Exchange
Gdax is the institutional trading arm. Coinbase is the retail trading arm. No minimums or special requirements to use Gdax over coinbase. Just log-in and transfer money over.
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Bitcoin hit $17,000 early this morning, then plunged over $3000.
Crazy roller coaster....
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-08/the-bitcoin-whales-1-000-people-who-own-40-percent-of-the-market
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MU82
I tend to agree with you on not having regrets on not joining the Bitcoin mania, regardless of where it ends up. I do not have enough understanding of Bitcoin and am skeptical of what the future will bring to Bitcoin. I do believe it could be for real, but not enough to risk money investing. That said, I think a year from now millions of people will have regrets for either investing or not investing in Bitcoin. I will sit on the sidelines and enjoy the entertainment factor and hope my kids make some dough. Who knows, maybe they might pop for a beer for the old man at MU game one of these days!!
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MU82
I tend to agree with you on not having regrets on not joining the Bitcoin mania, regardless of where it ends up. I do not have enough understanding of Bitcoin and am skeptical of what the future will bring to Bitcoin. I do believe it could be for real, but not enough to risk money investing. That said, I think a year from now millions of people will have regrets for either investing or not investing in Bitcoin. I will sit on the sidelines and enjoy the entertainment factor and hope my kids make some dough. Who knows, maybe they might pop for a beer for the old man at MU game one of these days!!
Yep yep, Goose.
Bitcoin came up at my monthly poker game last night, too.
It is water-cooler talk the same way dot-com stocks were water-cooler talk in 1999 and 2000 and the same way "you can't go wrong with real estate" was water-cooler talk in 2005 and 2006.
Not saying bitcoin will meet the same fate. Just saying it's not for "boring" investors like me.
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MU82
One big similarity to the dot.com mania is the use of message boards. Back in the day, I had a couple friends turn roughly 10k into a million off idiotic $1.00 dot com stocks based off false message board posts feeding the mania. I believe this is the dot.com on steroids. By the way, my friends made some real coin, but not the million they had made quickly.
Hope you won some dough at poker last night.
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I think what you don't appreciate is how worldwide this is and how far behind the world the US is.
70% of cryptocurrency trading is from Asia. The US is a small player.
the total size of all cryptocurrencies is $426 billion, $268 billion is bitcoin.
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This is a worldwide phenomenon on a massive scale that is beginning of rival the traditional financial markets. The US regulators like the IRS cannot touch most of the players.
If anything, Americans are lagging way behind the rest of the world in embracing bitcoin.
An analogy of mobile phones has been cited.
The US had 100% penetration of landlines. So when mobile phones came on the scene, American initially saw them as playthings for the rich and not really necessary. They already access to telephones and a pay phone was on every corner.
The rest of the world and especially underdeveloped countries that lacked landlines saw them as a godsend and quickly jumped to adopt them. Even today countries like Kenya. China and Indonesia have more developed mobile phone networks and deeper mobile phone penetration than the US.
Likewise with cryptocurrencies. Americans have enjoyed the US dollar as the reserve currency of the world. That gives them an advantage that rest of the world does not have. So they are skeptical and outwardly saying they are not interested. But for the rest of the world that has financial fears and volatility that Americans do not experience, cryptocurrencies are viewed very differently.
The fear is like mobile phones, the US will be relatively left behind.
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Bitcoin hit $17,000 early this morning, then plunged over $3000.
Crazy roller coaster....
It is a bubble that has to burst soon. If the market for bitcoin expands as it has recently, the energy requirements to process bitcoins will reach the entire size of the US by late next year. Think about that...it would take all the energy usage in the entire US to support the bitcoin market for a year (by late next year).
That is not sustainable, and means that the market cannot continue to grow as it is currently. When it fails to grow/provide large yields the market will crash.
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Jigawatts
Point on the Asian influence on Bitcoin is spot on. They will be the driving force IMO over the upcoming months. They have a ton of money and many would like to move outside of their home country, notably China. That is one reason why I believe there is staying power in the short term.
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MU82
One big similarity to the dot.com mania is the use of message boards. Back in the day, I had a couple friends turn roughly 10k into a million off idiotic $1.00 dot com stocks based off false message board posts feeding the mania. I believe this is the dot.com on steroids. By the way, my friends made some real coin, but not the million they had made quickly.
Hope you won some dough at poker last night.
I ended up down 75 cents!
It's a very low-stakes group that likes to play crazy games filled with wild cards. Just a social group, an excuse for a bunch of guys to get together. 75 cents for 4 hours of male bonding was well worth it.
I play in another group about once a month that is more serious. We play Hold 'em, either tournaments, cash games or both. Poker-wise, I prefer that; camaraderie-wise, I prefer the wild-card guys.
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It is a bubble that has to burst soon. If the market for bitcoin expands as it has recently, the energy requirements to process bitcoins will reach the entire size of the US by late next year. Think about that...it would take all the energy usage in the entire US to support the bitcoin market for a year (by late next year).
That is not sustainable, and means that the market cannot continue to grow as it is currently. When it fails to grow/provide large yields the market will crash.
Clarification
bitcoin mining does use an insane amount of electricity, not bitcoin trading. Watching porn video uses way more electricity than bitcoin trading.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/bitcoin-uses-more-energy-than-ireland
The reason is the price at $16,000 makes it economically variable. There are 4 million coins to be mined, and their value at current prices is $70 billion. That is more than Ireland spends on electricity!
Once it is no longer viable, the consumption of electricity will reverse.
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Jigawatts
Point on the Asian influence on Bitcoin is spot on. They will be the driving force IMO over the upcoming months. They have a ton of money and many would like to move outside of their home country, notably China. That is one reason why I believe there is staying power in the short term.
The biggest reason it has staying power is the only seller is an existing coin holder cashing out. You cannot spend them (not enough to matter) and you cannot short them (you can starting Sunday with the futures contract beginning at the CBOE but that will not reach a material size for many months, if ever). So, for now, it has no natural sellers.
The only reason for it go down is a major hack that scares the bejeezus out of everyone and they rush to get out. That is a risk but has not happened (save the isolated episodes of bit players here and there).
Another reason is a "fork" (google bitcoin fork definition).
A third reason is a system error. I think that is what inspired the correction off of $19,000 .... when Gdax and other exchanges went down. But this outage is over and the buyers will return ... Monday after the futures is shown not be the silver bullet that will kill bitcoin.
Again, I think this is very speculative and has a chance of failing. But it also has a real chance of being the biggest disruption since the internet itself ... if it becomes accepted, it will change banking and taxing forever.
And it is precisely because it is unregulated that it is so popular. No bankers going to jail and years of 0% (or negative) interest rates fostered the feeling of screwing regular people. So we have a populist movement in politics WORLDWIDE (the populist movement was way larger than Trump) and now we have the emergence of the populist currency (especially out of Asia where communist control in China, and heavy taxes and regulation elsewhere is motivating people to look for alternatives).
ADDED
And it cannot be regulated out of existence.
China banned it in January and that has not stopped huge trading out of China.
As I linked above South Korea is about to ban it, yet South Koreans are buying record amounts today. They are not afraid of the ban.
Russia is looking at clamping down, but that will stop nothing.
If it can be regulated out of business, then so can child porn. The reason we cannot get rid of child porn is no one person or group can control the internet. And since they cannot, all the government bans in the world will not stop it. If people anyway from governments want to accept it, then they have two choices, join the new world, or fall.
Like I said, if it gets accepted, it represents the biggest disruption since the internet itself.
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The biggest reason it has staying power is the only seller is an existing coin holder cashing out. You cannot spend them (not enough to matter) and you cannot short them (you can starting Sunday with the futures contract beginning at the CBOE but that will not reach a material size for many months, if ever). So, for now, it has no natural sellers.
The only reason for it go down is a major hack that scares the bejeezus out of everyone and they rush to get out. That is a risk but has not happened (save the isolated episodes of bit players here and there).
Another reason is a "fork" (google bitcoin fork definition).
A third reason is a system error. I think that is what inspired the correction off of $19,000 .... when Gdax and other exchanges went down. But this outage is over and the buyers will return ... Monday after the futures is shown not be the silver bullet that will kill bitcoin.
Again, I think this is very speculative and has a chance of failing. But it also has a real chance of being the biggest disruption since the internet itself ... if it becomes accepted, it will change banking and taxing forever.
And it is precisely because it is unregulated that it is so popular. No bankers going to jail and years of 0% (or negative) interest rates fostered the feeling of screwing regular people. So we have a populist movement in politics WORLDWIDE (the populist movement was way larger than Trump) and now we have the emergence of the populist currency (especially out of Asia where communist control in China, and heavy taxes and regulation elsewhere is motivating people to look for alternatives).
ADDED
And it cannot be regulated out of existence.
China banned it in January and that has not stopped huge trading out of China.
As I linked above South Korea is about to ban it, yet South Koreans are buying record amounts today. They are not afraid of the ban.
Russia is looking at clamping down, but that will stop nothing.
If it can be regulated out of business, then so can child porn. The reason we cannot get rid of child porn is no one person or group can control the internet. And since they cannot, all the government bans in the world will not stop it. If people anyway from governments want to accept it, then they have two choices, join the new world, or fall.
Like I said, if it gets accepted, it represents the biggest disruption since the internet itself.
While we may never get rid of child porn, we can make life very, very difficult for those who get involved.
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Heisy,
I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
How is Bitcoin different from gold? Hear me out. The whole appeal of Bitcoin is that it is completely decentralized and its supply grows at a diminishing rate. That sounds a lot like gold to me. How so? Gold is mined by the private sector and it is discovered at a diminishing rate.
My off-the-cuff reaction to Bitcoin is that it is a modern day, electronic version of the gold standard.
Personally, I'm not high on Bitcoin. I think its long-term prospects are dismal. If gold (or rather, a weighted basket of precious metals) can't supplant government-issued currency, then nothing can.
Convince me otherwise.
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Gold has utility, i.e. value, beyond that of a simple commodity:
1. Jewelry
2. Electrical circuits
3. Liquor
4. University mascot
Bitcoin has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
Also:
A) Gold is tangible
B) Gold cannot be "lost" (in the sense that it disappears, not just that someone misplaces it)
C) Gold's ownership is defined by possession, i.e. you can't duplicate a bar of gold, claiming it as your own and rendering the original bar worthless
D) Gold isn't the creation of an anonymous human with free will
E) The rules of what constitutes gold (79 protons, 118 neutrons) do not change or "fork"
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village of nashotah had their computers hacked and ALL their data stolen and/or held hostage for 2.000 bitcoin. once it(2.000 bitcoin) was sent overseas to some defined account, they gave back ALL of their data.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/lake-country/news/nashotah/2017/12/08/after-computer-hack-nashotah-pays-2-k-ransom-residents-personal-information/931996001/
point of my story was that bitcoin was demanded for ransom as it is non-traceable and it was sent overseas where heisy correctly stated, it is more popular
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Gold has utility, i.e. value, beyond that of a simple commodity:
1. Jewelry
2. Electrical circuits
3. Liquor
4. University mascot
Bitcoin has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
Also:
A) Gold is tangible
B) Gold cannot be "lost" (in the sense that it disappears, not just that someone misplaces it)
C) Gold's ownership is defined by possession, i.e. you can't duplicate a bar of gold, claiming it as your own and rendering the original bar worthless
D) Gold isn't the creation of an anonymous human with free will
E) The rules of what constitutes gold (79 protons, 118 neutrons) do not change or "fork"
LMAO. Very well played.
By equating Bitcoin to gold I was being charitable to Bitcoin. All of your points are partly why I am pessimistic about Bitcoin's long-term viability, at least with respect to causing concern for policymakers and central bankers.
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Clarification
bitcoin mining does use an insane amount of electricity, not bitcoin trading. Watching porn video uses way more electricity than bitcoin trading.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/bitcoin-uses-more-energy-than-ireland
The reason is the price at $16,000 makes it economically variable. There are 4 million coins to be mined, and their value at current prices is $70 billion. That is more than Ireland spends on electricity!
Once it is no longer viable, the consumption of electricity will reverse.
I trust you are right, but could you provide more info on how bitcoin trading and mining differ, and if they are not the same, why as bitcoin value goes up there is a corresponding increase in energy usage?
Just trying to learn.
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Heisy,
I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
How is Bitcoin different from gold? Hear me out. The whole appeal of Bitcoin is that it is completely decentralized and its supply grows at a diminishing rate. That sounds a lot like gold to me. How so? Gold is mined by the private sector and it is discovered at a diminishing rate.
My off-the-cuff reaction to Bitcoin is that it is a modern day, electronic version of the gold standard.
Personally, I'm not high on Bitcoin. I think its long-term prospects are dismal. If gold (or rather, a weighted basket of precious metals) can't supplant government-issued currency, then nothing can.
Convince me otherwise.
Don't need to convince you otherwise. You have it correct.
Bitcoin is designed to mimic gold, a store of value. That's why they even call acquiring new coins (or tokens) "mining" as it supposed to be like gold.
There are 1,344 cryptocurrencies. 17 have a market cap of over $1 billion.
Ethereum is considered the crypto best positioned to replace currencies. bitcoin replaces gold.
I trust you are right, but could you provide more info on how bitcoin trading and mining differ, and if they are not the same, why as Bitcoin value goes up there is a corresponding increase in energy usage?
Just trying to learn.
When bitcoin was created in the original (first) blockchain in 2009, it contained 21 million coins. How does one get a coin? Two ways. One can "mine" a coin. How? You download and run an algo on your computer and when it finishes, you get a coin. But the next coin requires a slightly longer and more complicated algo. Currently, 16.8 million of the 21 million coins have been mined. Now the algo is very long and overly complicated. You need serious hardware and a lot of power. Once the 21millionth coin is mined, that is all there is.
Another way is to buy one on an exchange. Dozens of them exist and Gdax is the largest in the US (it's not even in the top 6 worldwide). 70% of the trading and all the big exchanges are in Asia.
Bitcoin has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
Neither does the dollar, euro, yen pound etc. It is a worthless piece of paper (a "fiat" currency). It has value because we decided it has value.
Bitcoin is the same, it has value because people decided it has value.
E) The rules of what constitutes gold (79 protons, 118 neutrons) do not change or "fork"
Correct, and that is why I listed a fork as a risk. Not all forks are bad. The fork to "Bitcoin Cash" in August has been a huge success. Others are not and some, like the sigWit2x was called off.
What is a fork? The majority of owners and miners get together and re-write the program (the rules). This video explains it.
http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-fork-explained-gold-segwit-segwit2x-cash-the-bit-3-2017-10
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Why is this happening? Why is bitcoin worth a quarter of trillion dollars? Again, it represents the rejection of the status quo that screwed over the world in favor of the rich and powerful. Remember the vast majority of its activity is outside the United States. It is the search for an alternate financial system motivated by those that think the current financial system failed us in 2008.
The risk is we are seeing the birth of the next generation of currency, that will eventually replace the dollar. If we do not participate, we are left behind. The other risk is this all blows up and goes away and if we participate we lose everything.
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Jiga-
Isn't it possible that it's not this big populist backlash and is more just a way to pay for things (sometimes illegal activity) that is untraceable? That in itself would provide value
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Jiga-
Isn't it possible that it's not this big populist backlash and is more just a way to pay for things (sometimes illegal activity) that is untraceable? That in itself would provide value
I'm not sure what you are asking. Yes, the point of it is it is not traceable. It is considered a virtue because it allows people to hide wealth from corrupt and immoral governments (which is why it is so popular in China).
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When bitcoin was created in the original (first) blockchain in 2009, it contained 21 million coins. How does one get a coin? Two ways. One can "mine" a coin. How? You download and run an algo on your computer and when it finishes, you get a coin. But the next coin requires a slightly longer and more complicated algo. Currently, 16.8 million of the 21 million coins have been mined. Now the algo is very long and overly complicated. You need serious hardware and a lot of power. Once the 21millionth coin is mined, that is all there is.
Another way is to buy one on an exchange. Dozens of them exist and Gdax is the largest in the US (it's not even in the top 6 worldwide). 70% of the trading and all the big exchanges are in Asia.
Many thanks. What you are saying would imply that the "dire" articles I read are not nearly as "dire" as they tried to make them out to be.
Out of curiosity, at what point does it become reasonable to use the computing power on some the world's supercomputers to just get coins?
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When bitcoin was created in the original (first) blockchain in 2009, it contained 21 million coins. How does one get a coin? Two ways. One can "mine" a coin. How? You download and run an algo on your computer and when it finishes, you get a coin. But the next coin requires a slightly longer and more complicated algo. Currently, 16.8 million of the 21 million coins have been mined. Now the algo is very long and overly complicated. You need serious hardware and a lot of power. Once the 21millionth coin is mined, that is all there is.
Another way is to buy one on an exchange. Dozens of them exist and Gdax is the largest in the US (it's not even in the top 6 worldwide). 70% of the trading and all the big exchanges are in Asia.
Many thanks. What you are saying would imply that the "dire" articles I read are not nearly as "dire" as they tried to make them out to be.
Out of curiosity, at what point does it become reasonable to use the computing power on some the world's supercomputers to just get coins?
When/if the price of bitcoin gets higher enough to make it profitable. Don’t know the economics to give a number.
But with $70 billion still left to be mined (4.3 million coins left of the 21 million to be mined at $16,000), then one might ask when the Governemnt will jump in and use their might and power to start mining for the federal treasury.
Right now anyone that brings it up is a kook, but at some point the money potential is too overwhelming. When/if they do, they defacto legitimize bitcoin and all talk of banning it goes out the window (because banning it tries to make the price go to zero and that us the last thing you want to do to your asset.)
Here is a story today about a government that might be thinking of legitimizes bitcoin
https://www.coindesk.com/bulgarian-government-sitting-3-billion-bitcoin/
According to a press release dated May 19 from the Southeast European Law Enforcement Center (SELEC), a regional organization comprised of 12 member states including Bulgaria, a total of 213,519 bitcoins were seized that month. Twenty-three Bulgarian nationals were arrested during the operation, and officials said at the time that the arrests and subsequent asset seizures followed an investigation into an alleged customs fraud scam.
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Congrats, bitcoin!
You know you've arrived as a currency when hackers are stealing $70 million worth of you!
http://time.com/money/5053744/hackers-steal-bitcoin-nicehash/
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Congrats, bitcoin!
You know you've arrived as a currency when hackers are stealing $70 million worth of you!
http://time.com/money/5053744/hackers-steal-bitcoin-nicehash/
Based in Slovenia, NiceHash matches people in need of computer-processing power to “mine” cryptocurrencies with people who have power to spare. Payment is made to miners in bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies as an incentive for their processing and verifying transactions through complex algorithms.
This is a mining operation, as explained above. There are thousands of these types of operations (as noted above, collectively they consume more power than the country of Ireland). As note the country of origin, all the big ones are in far-flung places.
(why is the country of origin import, because most of these hacks come from the old fashion way, finding an employee and either paying them, or threatening them, into giving you their log-in credentials. In the US try this and the FBI and Home Land Security jump in. But in a country like Slovenia and you have to pay the police to protect you, so it is easier to give them what they want or sell them your credentials ... paid in bitcoin!)
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I point this out because bitcoin is not what you think it is, driven by a bunch of hipsters in a San Fran Starbucks. Sure they have some of that. But what really drives it is Asians (read Chinese) looking for ways to move their money without it being tracked by their repressive regimes and the miners are all in third-world, or near third-world countries taxing their power grids.
This is important because if cryptos are going to be the world currency of choice, replacing the dollar, you would think getting a bunch of people in third world countries to accept it would be the hard part. Actually, it is not because in Bulgaria (story above), Slovenia, China, Kenya and even Miramar (the old Burma), they have better mobile phones and much better mobile phone networks in than the United States. They are all comfortable having their life savings on an electric wallet. Their very existence is on their phone, more so that Americans.
The skeptics are ... well ... the demographic on this board. That would be Americans that graduated from (or are currently going to) a well a well respected American University that are successful enough to spend their time here.
And that is the dilemma for Americans. Since the dollar is the reserve currency of the world, you are probably not used to the prices in your store, or products you buy, fluctuate day to day based on the dollar's exchange rate. You probably cannot even name the dollar's exchange rate. But, if cryptos are going to become the new world currency, the risk is your stock portfolio and life savings are going to get greatly devalued because they are in the wrong currency (dollars and not cryptos). Again, there is a non-trivial change this never happens and all this goes to zero.
On the other hand, if you buy into this and it does fail, you lose everything. This is what makes this a hard choice.
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PS
The second largest cryptocurrency is Ethereum. It is up almost 30% today (as I write) and has a market capitalization of more than $50 billion (versus $275 billion for bitcoin). Ether (as the coins or tokens are called) is what I have the majority of my cryptos in because its structure is much better suited to become a real currency (medium of exchange) whereas, as I noted above, bitcoin is better suited as a store of value, like gold. (own some bitcoin too)
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Based in Slovenia, NiceHash matches people in need of computer-processing power to “mine” cryptocurrencies with people who have power to spare. Payment is made to miners in bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies as an incentive for their processing and verifying transactions through complex algorithms.
This is a mining operation, as explained above. There are thousands of these types of operations (as noted above, collectively they consume more power than the country of Ireland). As note the country of origin, all the big ones are in far-flung places.
(why is the country of origin import, because most of these hacks come from the old fashion way, finding an employee and either paying them, or threatening them, into giving you their log-in credentials. In the US try this and the FBI and Home Land Security jump in. But in a country like Slovenia and you have to pay the police to protect you, so it is easier to give them what they want or sell them your credentials ... paid in bitcoin!)
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I point this out because bitcoin is not what you think it is, driven by a bunch of hipsters in a San Fran Starbucks. Sure they have some of that. But what really drives it is Asians (read Chinese) looking for ways to move their money without it being tracked by their repressive regimes and the miners are all in third-world, or near third-world countries taxing their power grids.
This is important because if cryptos are going to be the world currency of choice, replacing the dollar, you would think getting a bunch of people in third world countries to accept it would be the hard part. Actually, it is not because in Bulgaria (story above), Slovenia, China, Kenya and even Miramar (the old Burma), they have better mobile phones and much better mobile phone networks in than the United States. They are all comfortable having their life savings on an electric wallet. Their very existence is on their phone, more so that Americans.
The skeptics are ... well ... the demographic on this board. That would be Americans that graduated from (or are currently going to) a well a well respected American University that are successful enough to spend their time here.
And that is the dilemma for Americans. Since the dollar is the reserve currency of the world, you are probably not used to the prices in your store, or products you buy, fluctuate day to day based on the dollar's exchange rate. You probably cannot even name the dollar's exchange rate. But, if cryptos are going to become the new world currency, the risk is your stock portfolio and life savings are going to get greatly devalued because they are in the wrong currency (dollars and not cryptos). Again, there is a non-trivial change this never happens and all this goes to zero.
On the other hand, if you buy into this and it does fail, you lose everything. This is what makes this a hard choice.
-----------
PS
The second largest cryptocurrency is Ethereum. It is up almost 30% today (as I write) and has a market capitalization of more than $50 billion (versus $275 billion for bitcoin). Ether (as the coins or tokens are called) is what I have the majority of my cryptos in because its structure is much better suited to become a real currency (medium of exchange) whereas, as I noted above, bitcoin is better suited as a store of value, like gold. (own some bitcoin too)
Appreciate all the great info you are providing. As I said before, I do not know a lot about this area, largely because I have not had a lot of time to look into new things since cryptos have become more popular.
But I do not see how cryptos are a threat to the dollar in any way. The problem with cryptos are that they are predominantly associated with two things, speculation (gambling) and crime. The latter being the bigger problem. Bitcoin will never separate itself from its criminal association.
If a crypto takes over currency markets, it will be a new crypto constructed by a western (or Chinese) government. The latter will not happen for a long long time. China would have the biggest motive to do so, but it would cripple their ability to manipulate the currency market...so long term crypto's cannot succeed in my opinion. They will continue to be an investing novelty largely dominated by the fact that the top 5% around the world have accumulated so much wealth that they have nothing else to do with it than play speculation games.
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My own experience. I have mined bitcoins for a few years. It is expensive on electricity, but have it running in the background. I have also purchased some (less than $5k) and currently it looks very nice, but the bottom can drop out whenever. Has to be money you feel you can set on fire and not lose a bit of sleep.
Some articles suggest it will go to $100K by 2020. Others believe it is a ponzi scheme. For me it is a hobby, though I find myself checking the price 20 times more often then I both with any of my traditional stocks or funds.
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Based in Slovenia, NiceHash matches people in need of computer-processing power to “mine” cryptocurrencies with people who have power to spare. Payment is made to miners in bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies as an incentive for their processing and verifying transactions through complex algorithms.
This is a mining operation, as explained above. There are thousands of these types of operations (as noted above, collectively they consume more power than the country of Ireland). As note the country of origin, all the big ones are in far-flung places.
(why is the country of origin import, because most of these hacks come from the old fashion way, finding an employee and either paying them, or threatening them, into giving you their log-in credentials. In the US try this and the FBI and Home Land Security jump in. But in a country like Slovenia and you have to pay the police to protect you, so it is easier to give them what they want or sell them your credentials ... paid in bitcoin!)
-------------
I point this out because bitcoin is not what you think it is, driven by a bunch of hipsters in a San Fran Starbucks. Sure they have some of that. But what really drives it is Asians (read Chinese) looking for ways to move their money without it being tracked by their repressive regimes and the miners are all in third-world, or near third-world countries taxing their power grids.
This is important because if cryptos are going to be the world currency of choice, replacing the dollar, you would think getting a bunch of people in third world countries to accept it would be the hard part. Actually, it is not because in Bulgaria (story above), Slovenia, China, Kenya and even Miramar (the old Burma), they have better mobile phones and much better mobile phone networks in than the United States. They are all comfortable having their life savings on an electric wallet. Their very existence is on their phone, more so that Americans.
The skeptics are ... well ... the demographic on this board. That would be Americans that graduated from (or are currently going to) a well a well respected American University that are successful enough to spend their time here.
And that is the dilemma for Americans. Since the dollar is the reserve currency of the world, you are probably not used to the prices in your store, or products you buy, fluctuate day to day based on the dollar's exchange rate. You probably cannot even name the dollar's exchange rate. But, if cryptos are going to become the new world currency, the risk is your stock portfolio and life savings are going to get greatly devalued because they are in the wrong currency (dollars and not cryptos). Again, there is a non-trivial change this never happens and all this goes to zero.
On the other hand, if you buy into this and it does fail, you lose everything. This is what makes this a hard choice.
-----------
PS
The second largest cryptocurrency is Ethereum. It is up almost 30% today (as I write) and has a market capitalization of more than $50 billion (versus $275 billion for bitcoin). Ether (as the coins or tokens are called) is what I have the majority of my cryptos in because its structure is much better suited to become a real currency (medium of exchange) whereas, as I noted above, bitcoin is better suited as a store of value, like gold. (own some bitcoin too)
What is the rate of growth of Ether coins (money supply)? Is it some hard-and-fast rule, e.g., say, 2% per year? If so, can that ever change?
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My own experience. I have mined bitcoins for a few years. It is expensive on electricity, but have it running in the background. I have also purchased some (less than $5k) and currently it looks very nice, but the bottom can drop out whenever. Has to be money you feel you can set on fire and not lose a bit of sleep.
Some articles suggest it will go to $100K by 2020. Others believe it is a ponzi scheme. For me it is a hobby, though I find myself checking the price 20 times more often then I both with any of my traditional stocks or funds.
Can this be done with a typical laptop? Say, a high end gaming laptop that I no longer really game with? I realize that I would be unlikely to make much of a dent on my own, but could I get anything?
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Can this be done with a typical laptop? Say, a high end gaming laptop that I no longer really game with? I realize that I would be unlikely to make much of a dent on my own, but could I get anything?
Whats the gpu on it?
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Can this be done with a typical laptop? Say, a high end gaming laptop that I no longer really game with? I realize that I would be unlikely to make much of a dent on my own, but could I get anything?
Short answer is yes, but it will be low volumes of mining and the ROI on the electricity will put you in the red most likely.
This piece does a good job of explaining the basics, how much electricity and potential profitability, but impossible to predict the actual outcomes.
https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-mining-profitable-beginners-explanation/
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Can this be done with a typical laptop? Say, a high end gaming laptop that I no longer really game with? I realize that I would be unlikely to make much of a dent on my own, but could I get anything?
It will not be profitable, but yes, you can.
I'll put this youtube playlist here for anyone else that is looking for more information.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1si5ZWLgy0&list=PLPQwGV1aLnTuN6kdNWlElfr2tzigB9Nnj (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1si5ZWLgy0&list=PLPQwGV1aLnTuN6kdNWlElfr2tzigB9Nnj)
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Any of you guys familiar with Ripple? If so, thoughts on it?
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Any of you guys familiar with Ripple? If so, thoughts on it?
I like the price of Ripple, but it takes a lot of it to get a person drunk.
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https://www.youtube.com/v/6MnQJFEVY7s
My man right here is straight fire.
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Is there a simple process to convert Bitcoin to USD? I don't personally own any, but curious to understand the mechanism if anyone has experience.
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Is there a simple process to convert Bitcoin to USD? I don't personally own any, but curious to understand the mechanism if anyone has experience.
No. Actually, there’s no simple process to convert Bitcoin to any fiat currency anywhere, which is the big reason the value is skyrocketing. But in the US, be forewarned that a Bitcoin sell order simply puts you into a queue and unlike stocks and most other securities which will execute almost instantaneously, and later settle, at a market price, Bitcoin can take up to 30 days (or more) to settle because of the nature of a blockchain transaction. Here’s the kicker... your sell order may execute at $16,000 today but the broker doesn’t settle for another week by which time the price has dropped to $15,000. Guess which amount the broker is going to deposit in your account.
Oh yeah, did I mention the part about being flagged by the DOJ and IRS the moment you attempt to sell? You can buy and hold Bitcoin anonymously, but contrary to popular belief, you can’t sell anonymously.
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No. Actually, there’s no simple process to convert Bitcoin to any fiat currency anywhere, which is the big reason the value is skyrocketing. But in the US, be forewarned that a Bitcoin sell order simply puts you into a queue and unlike stocks and most other securities which will execute almost instantaneously, and later settle, at a market price, Bitcoin can take up to 30 days (or more) to settle because of the nature of a blockchain transaction. Here’s the kicker... your sell order may execute at $16,000 today but the broker doesn’t settle for another week by which time the price has dropped to $15,000. Guess which amount the broker is going to deposit in your account.
Oh yeah, did I mention the part about being flagged by the DOJ and IRS the moment you attempt to sell? You can buy and hold Bitcoin anonymously, but contrary to popular belief, you can’t sell anonymously.
simply not true
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No. Actually, there’s no simple process to convert Bitcoin to any fiat currency anywhere, which is the big reason the value is skyrocketing. But in the US, be forewarned that a Bitcoin sell order simply puts you into a queue and unlike stocks and most other securities which will execute almost instantaneously, and later settle, at a market price, Bitcoin can take up to 30 days (or more) to settle because of the nature of a blockchain transaction. Here’s the kicker... your sell order may execute at $16,000 today but the broker doesn’t settle for another week by which time the price has dropped to $15,000. Guess which amount the broker is going to deposit in your account.
Oh yeah, did I mention the part about being flagged by the DOJ and IRS the moment you attempt to sell? You can buy and hold Bitcoin anonymously, but contrary to popular belief, you can’t sell anonymously.
Thanks for the reply. The concept is definitely very interesting. Looks like there is a debit card service through BitPay that operates as a Visa gift card. Still not sold either way, but this could play a major role in future cyber Mondays.
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For anyone interested
https://www.coursera.org/learn/cryptocurrency
Class starts on 12/25
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The Force Behind Bitcoin’s Meteoric Rise: Millions of Asian Investors
Retail investors, mostly in Asia, are pushing the price of bitcoin to new heights
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-force-behind-bitcoins-meteoric-rise-millions-of-asian-investors-1513074750
Various forces have stoked Asia’s bitcoin fever. While individual wealth has been growing in recent years, particularly in China and South Korea, lucrative investment opportunities can be hard to find, with property markets expensive and stock markets fully valued.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that Asians are more comfortable with the concept of virtual currencies such as bitcoin, particularly younger people who have grown up in a world of e-commerce and mobile payments.
China last year made up the bulk of trading volume before regulators clamped down. But by the end of November, Japan, South Korea and Vietnam accounted for nearly 80% of bitcoin trading activity globally, according to research firm CryptoCompare, while U.S. trading was about one-fifth of the volume. In the past few weeks, the U.S. share of the overall total has increased.
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The Force Behind Bitcoin’s Meteoric Rise: Millions of Asian Investors
Retail investors, mostly in Asia, are pushing the price of bitcoin to new heights
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-force-behind-bitcoins-meteoric-rise-millions-of-asian-investors-1513074750
Various forces have stoked Asia’s bitcoin fever. While individual wealth has been growing in recent years, particularly in China and South Korea, lucrative investment opportunities can be hard to find, with property markets expensive and stock markets fully valued.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that Asians are more comfortable with the concept of virtual currencies such as bitcoin, particularly younger people who have grown up in a world of e-commerce and mobile payments.
China last year made up the bulk of trading volume before regulators clamped down. But by the end of November, Japan, South Korea and Vietnam accounted for nearly 80% of bitcoin trading activity globally, according to research firm CryptoCompare, while U.S. trading was about one-fifth of the volume. In the past few weeks, the U.S. share of the overall total has increased.
https://twitter.com/joyce/status/940431742208376832 (https://twitter.com/joyce/status/940431742208376832)
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https://twitter.com/joyce/status/940431742208376832 (https://twitter.com/joyce/status/940431742208376832)
Yes, and away from bitcoin it is a another wild day in crypto land.
Litecoin is up more than 100% today! It was $94 dollars on Dec 8, it topped $400 today. (It was under $4 in March 100x rise in 9 months).
Ether was $400 on December 8, hit $640 this morning, up 30% today (was $7 in Janaury). Ether is now more than $60 billion.
Korea which is a big player in this space walked back from banning it. No doubt the amount of crypto money in the Korean economy/political system played a role. This is helping the non-bitcoin crypto surge.
Next up in Russia. They are talking about banning it. They won’t. It will be like Korea, they are just shaking down the cryptos for bribes.
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Keep an eye Ripple!!
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Keep an eye Ripple!!
Up 50% since you wrote it earlier today!!!
You win the anti-Apple award
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I decided to give my luck a chance with Ripple.
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I'm not sure what you are asking. Yes, the point of it is it is not traceable. It is considered a virtue because it allows people to hide wealth from corrupt and immoral governments (which is why it is so popular in China).
More so it allows corrupt and immoral people to hide wealth from governments. Not talking about the traders and speculators, I'm talking about the money launderers.
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More so it allows corrupt and immoral people to hide wealth from governments. Not talking about the traders and speculators, I'm talking about the money launderers.
But you can already do that with paper money.
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The SEC unleashes one of the most unequivocal statements ever made by a federal agency:
A number of concerns have been raised regarding the cryptocurrency and ICO markets, including that, as they are currently operating, there is substantially less investor protection than in our traditional securities markets, with correspondingly greater opportunities for fraud and manipulation.
Investors should understand that to date no initial coin offerings have been registered with the SEC. The SEC also has not to date approved for listing and trading any exchange-traded products (such as ETFs) holding cryptocurrencies or other assets related to cryptocurrencies.[2] If any person today tells you otherwise, be especially wary.
(emphasis theirs. yes, theirs)
https://www.sec.gov/news/public-statement/statement-clayton-2017-12-11
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More so it allows corrupt and immoral people to hide wealth from governments. Not talking about the traders and speculators, I'm talking about the money launderers.
Standard Charter Bank in the UK (expert in terrorist money laundering), or JP Morgan in NY (expert in tax evasion) are far more efficient ways to launder money. No, I'm not being funny, it's what they do.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-20669650
https://dealbreaker.com/2017/11/the-swiss-just-gave-jpmorgan-the-highest-money-laundering-honor-the-world-has-to-offer/
Money laundering has always existed and will always exist. Have we choked off the drug and terrorist money? Not even close. So they have numerous ways to launder money and cryptocurrencies is one more. Cryptos existence changes nothing on the money laundering front.
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The SEC unleashes one of the most unequivocal statements ever made by a federal agency:
A number of concerns have been raised regarding the cryptocurrency and ICO markets, including that, as they are currently operating, there is substantially less investor protection than in our traditional securities markets, with correspondingly greater opportunities for fraud and manipulation.
Investors should understand that to date no initial coin offerings have been registered with the SEC. The SEC also has not to date approved for listing and trading any exchange-traded products (such as ETFs) holding cryptocurrencies or other assets related to cryptocurrencies.[2] If any person today tells you otherwise, be especially wary.
(emphasis theirs. yes, theirs)
https://www.sec.gov/news/public-statement/statement-clayton-2017-12-11
The vast majority of ICO money raises are outside the US.
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But you can already do that with paper money.
But it is traceable. Bitcoin is not, thus the great demand for black market transactions.
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So they have numerous ways to launder money and cryptocurrencies is one more. Cryptos existence changes nothing on the money laundering front.
Of course it does. Yes, banks have been at best looking the other way re money laundering, and in some cases actively participating. But it is traceable, which is how they are getting busted. Bitcoin is not.
As I said in another thread, Manafort is kicking himself for using Wilbur Ross's Bank of Cyprus rather than Bitcoin. The cryptos are hugely popular with the oligarchs looking to wash their illicit stacks of cash.
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But it is traceable. Bitcoin is not, thus the great demand for black market transactions.
Oh, since its traceable I assume they catch everyone who is doing it.
right?
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One has to pay capital gains when selling bitcoin AFAIK. Isn't there some form of reporting required when selling? Assuming yes, wouldn't that make it traceable in the US?
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But it is traceable. Bitcoin is not, thus the great demand for black market transactions.
Actually, Bitcoin is traceable. Some of the other cryptos are not, but I heard someone from Coindesk's board on CNBC term it "pseudonymous, not anonymous." DOJ is monitoring everyone who is selling Bitcoin domestically, so I would think the vast majority of whatever black market Bitcoin activity might still be going on is likely taking place overseas.
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Oh, since its traceable I assume they catch everyone who is doing it.
right?
Of course not. Why would you ask that?
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I wasn't trying to be fair or unfair. I merely presented a fact and some reasonable advice for any investor.
Fact: It crashed nearly 20% yesterday.
Reasonable advice: Investors should be in tune with their risk tolerance before investing in bitcoin - or anything else.
Not sure how one could take issue with any of that.
9th 20% decline this year. They average about 1 every 6 weeks. Also the third since November 1, so now they average one every 2 weeks.
This is what it does.
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Of course, it does. Yes, banks have been at best looking the other way re money laundering, and in some cases actively participating. But it is traceable, which is how they are getting busted. Bitcoin is not.
As I said in another thread, Manafort is kicking himself for using Wilbur Ross's Bank of Cyprus rather than Bitcoin. The cryptos are hugely popular with the oligarchs looking to wash their illicit stacks of cash.
The amount of illegally laundered money would astound you. It is in the trillions. All of it is run by upstanding institutions. Bitcoin is not even a rounding error. See the Panama And Paradise Papers.
The entire Russian banking system loses more laundered money in a month than all bitcoin financed illegal activity in history.
The Chinese banking system, which has the four largest banks in the world, is even more involved in illicit activity. As noted above the Cypriot banks, which are an extension of the Russian banks, is also a corrupt system within the European Union.
There are entire legitimate law firms in Switzerland that specialize in nothing but money laundering. Walk into any law firm on Zurich's Bahnhofstrasse with giant garbage bags full of cash and ask them how you turn it into legal cash. The first thing they will do is get you a hotel room in the Widder Hotel and get to work.
And in the United States Wells Fargo is opening millions of accounts without anyone's knowledge and JP Morgan has paid more in fines for laundering money (including two weeks ago) than has been laundered with bitcoin.
Traceable ... that is for the small time BS for the nightly news. The real money moves in mountains with no records. Standard Charter Bank in London was essentially the financiers of Al Queda. Before ISIS was over-run, they were operating oil wells in Northern Iraq producing 60,000 to 100,000 barrels a day ... all laundered through legitimate banks. We have soldiers fighting them when a couple of accountants could have choke their money, and their organization, out of business.
The obsession with its bitcoin financed illegal activity is misplaced. It reminds me taxi companies warning that Uber drivers were not licensed and you were taking a risk riding with them. Technically true but no one cared and in the end, a misplaced worry.
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74 of your Bitcoin questions answered
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/74-bitcoin-questions-answered-202033293.html
This article strikes a good balance of general and detail.
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The amount of illegally laundered money would astound you. It is in the trillions. All of it is run by upstanding institutions. Bitcoin is not even a rounding error. See the Panama And Paradise Papers.
The entire Russian banking system loses more laundered money in a month than all bitcoin financed illegal activity in history.
The Chinese banking system, which has the four largest banks in the world, is even more involved in illicit activity. As noted above the Cypriot banks, which are an extension of the Russian banks, is also a corrupt system within the European Union.
There are entire legitimate law firms in Switzerland that specialize in nothing but money laundering. Walk into any law firm on Zurich's Bahnhofstrasse with giant garbage bags full of cash and ask them how you turn it into legal cash. The first thing they will do is get you a hotel room in the Widder Hotel and get to work.
And in the United States Wells Fargo is opening millions of accounts without anyone's knowledge and JP Morgan has paid more in fines for laundering money (including two weeks ago) than has been laundered with bitcoin.
Traceable ... that is for the small time BS for the nightly news. The real money moves in mountains with no records. Standard Charter Bank in London was essentially the financiers of Al Queda. Before ISIS was over-run, they were operating oil wells in Northern Iraq producing 60,000 to 100,000 barrels a day ... all laundered through legitimate banks. We have soldiers fighting them when a couple of accountants could have choke their money, and their organization, out of business.
The obsession with its bitcoin financed illegal activity is misplaced. It reminds me taxi companies warning that Uber drivers were not licensed and you were taking a risk riding with them. Technically true but no one cared and in the end, a misplaced worry.
An interesting perspective on Bitcoin from Doug Kass.
https://realmoney.thestreet.com/articles/12/11/2017/sorry-ruin-surprise-bitcoin-will-collapse-2018
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An interesting perspective on Bitcoin from Doug Kass.
https://realmoney.thestreet.com/articles/12/11/2017/sorry-ruin-surprise-bitcoin-will-collapse-2018
I love dougie but this is all wrong. He does not understand it.
See Chamath Palihapitiya recent comments on bitcoin (owner of the Golden State Warriors). At one point is 2012 he owned 5% of all bitcoins. He sees $100k in three to four years and $1 million after that. It replaces the dollar as the reserve currency and end traditional banking as we know it.
I’m with Chamath .
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I love dougie but this is all wrong. He does not understand it.
See Chamath Palihapitiya recent comments on bitcoin (owner of the Golden State Warriors). At one point is 2012 he owned 5% of all bitcoins. He sees $100k in three to four years and $1 million after that. It replaces the dollar as the reserve currency and end traditional banking as we know it.
I’m with Chamath .
How much (many?) bitcoin do you own?
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So how are bitcoins created?
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How much (many?) bitcoin do you own?
I started with 1% (of my funds), sold some along the way, now about 7% (because it rises too fast, I want to keep it at 5%.)
I'm in the process of swapping my bitcoin for bitcoin cash, ether, litecoin and ripple.
The single best idea I've ever had ... until it blows up and then it becomes my worst.
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I love dougie but this is all wrong. He does not understand it.
See Chamath Palihapitiya recent comments on bitcoin (owner of the Golden State Warriors). At one point is 2012 he owned 5% of all bitcoins. He sees $100k in three to four years and $1 million after that. It replaces the dollar as the reserve currency and end traditional banking as we know it.
I’m with Chamath .
I know Doug personally and he is directionally correct most of the time. In fact in 2013 he pointed out the Bitcoin was like owning a mint 1952 Topps baseball card deck in 1992, so he has been bullish along the way. The guy makes his living on short side.
Glad to hear you have taken a big posture in Bitcoin, like Buffet says you only need to be smart once to get rich.
Should be noted , the one thing Doug always says "Never be embarrassed to wring the register".
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So how are bitcoins created?
Over simplification, but when the bitcoin program was created it was built with a fixed number of coins. Users(and their computers) who used their machines to run algorithms for bitcoin get rewarded with a bitcoin when they complete a certain amount of algorithms. As available bitcoin in "reserve" get into public hands the next bitcoin requires more computation to achieve it(progressively harder to obtain). This is all called bitcoin mining and the algorithms have gotten complex enough that it takes a lot of processing power to mine a single coin that it actually costs more to mine than you get(at current market prices)
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I started with 1% (of my funds), sold some along the way, now about 7% (because it rises too fast, I want to keep it at 5%.)
I'm in the process of swapping my bitcoin for bitcoin cash, ether, litecoin and ripple.
The single best idea I've ever had ... until it blows up and then it becomes my worst.
I wish you good fortune.
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I wish you good fortune.
Hey, the more people that buy into the whole Bitcoin craze, the more valuable my VIX call options are going to be come May. So yeah, good fortune.... for the rest of us.
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Over simplification, but when the bitcoin program was created it was built with a fixed number of coins. Users(and their computers) who used their machines to run algorithms for bitcoin get rewarded with a bitcoin when they complete a certain amount of algorithms. As available bitcoin in "reserve" get into public hands the next bitcoin requires more computation to achieve it(progressively harder to obtain). This is all called bitcoin mining and the algorithms have gotten complex enough that it takes a lot of processing power to mine a single coin that it actually costs more to mine than you get(at current market prices)
I'll add one thing ... again oversimplifying
Bitcoin is the first application on the blockchain. The blockchain is a way for two anonymous people to exchange "tokens" or coins without an intermediary, like a bank or financial institution. There is a public ledger where you input your "key" and when it matches the exchange takes place (this gets involved so Google it if you want more).
The big problem is "double spending." Since a bitcoin is nothing but an encrypted computer file, how do you know if I sell you my token, and then sell it again to another person ("double spending")? To solve this each transaction (or "block") is "chained" together. Then, each block, all the way back to the first block in January 2009 is checked to see if you "spent" that token before. If not, then the transaction takes place.
To check all the blocks in its history takes tremendous computing power and electricity. Where does that come from? This is the algorithm that the miners are running. They lend their resources to run the blockchain and when they have lent enough resources, they are rewarded with a coin. On average a new coin is award about every 10 to 15 minutes. As noted above it is capped at 21 million. 17 million have been awarded. As the coins dwindle, they get harder to get (more computing power, and the electricity to power it). The pace of coins award is set so the last coin is awarded in 2040.
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I love dougie but this is all wrong. He does not understand it.
See Chamath Palihapitiya recent comments on bitcoin (owner of the Golden State Warriors). At one point is 2012 he owned 5% of all bitcoins. He sees $100k in three to four years and $1 million after that. It replaces the dollar as the reserve currency and end traditional banking as we know it.
I’m with Chamath .
What do you mean by reserve currency here? Do you mean the currency that countries with a fixed exchange rate peg to, e.g., China?
So instead of pegging to the dollar they would instead peg to Bitcoin?
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The cryptocurrency market is now doing the same daily volume as the New York Stock Exchange
http://www.businessinsider.com/daily-cryptocurrency-volumes-vs-stock-market-volumes-2017-12
* Global volume in cryptocurrency markets passes $50 billion, close to the average turnover on New York Stock Exchange.
* The comparison is inexact but highlights just how popular digital currencies have become.
24-hour trade volume in the cryptocurrency market passed the $50 billion mark on Wednesday, according to data provider CoinMarketCap.com.
That is close to the average daily volumes of trade on the New York Stock Exchange this year, which has ranged between $35 billion and $50 billion, according to historical data. Daily trading volumes on the London Stock Exchange hover around £5 billion.
The comparison is inexact, as the cryptocurrency market is arguably closer to the foreign exchange market, which has daily volumes of over $5 trillion.
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What do you mean by reserve currency here? Do you mean the currency that countries with a fixed exchange rate peg to, e.g., China?
So instead of pegging to the dollar, they would instead peg to Bitcoin?
The reserve currency is the base currency of the world, the currency everything is priced in dollars. Since the early 1970s it has been the dollar (before that it was the British Pound and before that, going back to the 19th century, it was gold).
Because the dollar is the reserve currency, commodities like gold and crude oil are priced and quoted in dollars. So, for example, if you go to the London gold market, or go to Dubai and ask for a quote on Saudi heavy crude oil, that quote is in dollars. If you want to buy it using another currency, you must convert that currency to dollars. (they will accept Euros or Chinese Yuan but you must take the currency risk of converting that currency at its exchange rate to the dollar.)
The rest of the world is more than ready to move on from the dollar as the world's exchange rate. There have been attempts to try and use other currencies like the Euro and/or Yuan but they are either too small (Euro) or not fully convertible (which means the Chinese government puts too many rules on it). The fact that bitcoin has much higher penetration in the rest of the world, especially the third world, suggests they might be willing to accept it as a reserve currency. Meaning that it will be the way everything in the world is priced. So when you look up the price of crude oil, it is in bitcoins per barrel. (or whatever cryptocurrency emerges as the dominant medium of exchange.) Then if an American oil company wants to buy oil, they must convert and the dollar/crypto exchange rate.
Now, let me be clear, this is the long term goal, like a decade or two away. Many issues have to be solved before, like transfer rate speed and adoption. But that is its ultimate goal. And, my usual caveat, there is a significant chance that it fails and none of this happens.
That said, in world markets, there has been a discussion of what replaces the dollar as the reserve currency or a long time, maybe we are seeing the beginning of that answer.
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OK wow. Thanks for the explanations.
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Let me add to my quote above ... what is the big promise of bitcoin, or any cryptos. What are they offering that the world does not have and desperately needs?
The answer, a simple way to transfer money between two parties for no cost. Right now if I want to send someone money, I have two choices, hand them cash (which costs nothing) or use a financial intermediary (like a bank) to stand in the middle of the transaction (via a check, credit or debit card, things like Apple pay is just a variation on this).
The problem with the intermediary is they impose a cost. For instance, a credit card company typically charges 30 cents plus 2% of the cost of each transaction (or swipe).
Bitcoin (or cryptos) offer a way to transfer money at zero costs, without an intermediary. This is what is missing and sorely needed.
This will allow micro-payments. What the large newspapers need are free micropayments ... finish reading this article for five cents. Right now they cannot do that because the credit card company charges 30 cents plus 2%. Debit cards charge too. This site could benefit, charge a penny to post, or even one-tenth of a penny to post (yes, you can have sub-penny charges) Hundreds of posts a day will allow Scoop to keep the lights on. Steaming video could chart a penny a minute to watch them. All of this is automated on the blockchain and extremely easy to do.
The current way this is attempted is you deposit money in an account, after the credit card company takes a fee, and work it off, That is hard and very hard to get a refund, and the credit card companies take a pound of flesh. Often the credit card companies make more than the vendor!
Bottom line, traditional financial intermediaries like banks and credit card companies are not able to evolve for the new online world. They can not offer free and instant micro-payments. They are taxis. Cryptos are the Uber that will disrupt them.
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Let me add to my quote above ... what is the big promise of bitcoin, or any cryptos. What are they offering that the world does not have and desperately needs?
The answer, a simple way to transfer money between two parties for no cost. Right now if I want to send someone money, I have two choices, hand them cash (which costs nothing) or use a financial intermediary (like a bank) to stand in the middle of the transaction (via a check, credit or debit card, things like Apple pay is just a variation on this).
The problem with the intermediary is they impose a cost. For instance, a credit card company typically charges 30 cents plus 2% of the cost of each transaction (or swipe).
Bitcoin (or cryptos) offer a way to transfer money at zero costs, without an intermediary. This is what is missing and sorely needed.
This will allow micro-payments. What the large newspapers need are free micropayments ... finish reading this article for five cents. Right now they cannot do that because the credit card company charges 30 cents plus 2%. Debit cards charge too. This site could benefit, charge a penny to post, or even one-tenth of a penny to post (yes, you can have sub-penny charges) Hundreds of posts a day will allow Scoop to keep the lights on. Steaming video could chart a penny a minute to watch them. All of this is automated on the blockchain and extremely easy to do.
The current way this is attempted is you deposit money in an account, after the credit card company takes a fee, and work it off, That is hard and very hard to get a refund, and the credit card companies take a pound of flesh. Often the credit card companies make more than the vendor!
Bottom line, traditional financial intermediaries like banks and credit card companies are not able to evolve for the new online world. They can not offer free and instant micro-payments. They are taxis. Cryptos are the Uber that will disrupt them.
At no cost? What about the cost of electricity necessary to verify a transaction?
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At no cost? What about the cost of electricity necessary to verify a transaction?
The miners bear that cost (see my post above). The miners do it because they are seeking the reward of new coins.
The "users" (you and me) of bitcoin do not.
And as far as bitcoin's efficiency (computational needs and electricity), that is why we have over 1,300 cryptos and forks (when the rules of existing cryptos are re-written). Everyone is trying to build a better/faster more efficient mousetrap.
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The miners bear that cost (see my post above). The miners do it because they are seeking the reward of new coins.
The "users" (you and me) of bitcoin do not.
And as far as bitcoin's efficiency (computational needs and electricity), that is why we have over 1,300 cryptos and forks (when the rules of existing cryptos are re-written). Everyone is trying to build a better/faster more efficient mousetrap.
How about virtually no cost? This is where the real value of the Block Chain technology is, Bitcoin, Litecoin etc... are, at this point, speculative curiosities, IMO. The value of disintermediation is real, think any centralized entity that performs an escrow or clearing type function, those fees go away. Sorry if this has already been covered, I started reading the thread and didn't have time to go through it all.
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Let me add to my quote above ... what is the big promise of bitcoin, or any cryptos. What are they offering that the world does not have and desperately needs?
The answer, a simple way to transfer money between two parties for no cost. Right now if I want to send someone money, I have two choices, hand them cash (which costs nothing) or use a financial intermediary (like a bank) to stand in the middle of the transaction (via a check, credit or debit card, things like Apple pay is just a variation on this).
The problem with the intermediary is they impose a cost. For instance, a credit card company typically charges 30 cents plus 2% of the cost of each transaction (or swipe).
Bitcoin (or cryptos) offer a way to transfer money at zero costs, without an intermediary. This is what is missing and sorely needed.
This will allow micro-payments. What the large newspapers need are free micropayments ... finish reading this article for five cents. Right now they cannot do that because the credit card company charges 30 cents plus 2%. Debit cards charge too. This site could benefit, charge a penny to post, or even one-tenth of a penny to post (yes, you can have sub-penny charges) Hundreds of posts a day will allow Scoop to keep the lights on. Steaming video could chart a penny a minute to watch them. All of this is automated on the blockchain and extremely easy to do.
The current way this is attempted is you deposit money in an account, after the credit card company takes a fee, and work it off, That is hard and very hard to get a refund, and the credit card companies take a pound of flesh. Often the credit card companies make more than the vendor!
Bottom line, traditional financial intermediaries like banks and credit card companies are not able to evolve for the new online world. They can not offer free and instant micro-payments. They are taxis. Cryptos are the Uber that will disrupt them.
Would the "posts in the Superbar don't count towards your total post count", aka the Chicos Rule, apply to this sub-penny posting charge scheme?
(F-in' Rocky has to keep G.D. Topper in Arby's or Topper will quit.)
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The miners bear that cost (see my post above). The miners do it because they are seeking the reward of new coins.
The "users" (you and me) of bitcoin do not.
And as far as bitcoin's efficiency (computational needs and electricity), that is why we have over 1,300 cryptos and forks (when the rules of existing cryptos are re-written). Everyone is trying to build a better/faster more efficient mousetrap.
So what, pray tell, happens in a few years when we hit 21M Bitcoin and no new Bitcoin "rewards" are being mined? Most seem to think that the transacting parties will begin bearing the cost at that point.
Average transaction cost today is $24.00 in electricity (based on average rates in the US). Sure, the electrons might be cheaper overseas, but nobody's going to be verifying transactions for nothing at peak supply.
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As Yogi stated: When you come to the fork in the road, take it
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So what, pray tell, happens in a few years when we hit 21M Bitcoin and no new Bitcoin "rewards" are being mined? Most seem to think that the transacting parties will begin bearing the cost at that point.
Average transaction cost today is $24.00 in electricity (based on average rates in the US). Sure, the electrons might be cheaper overseas, but nobody's going to be verifying transactions for nothing at peak supply.
It is designed to end ion 2040. The bet is Moore's law (doubling every 18 months) will so greatly advance processing by 2040 that it will be fast cheap and affordable in 2040 where it is not now.
If not, that is why we have 1,300 alternatives arguing they are a better mousetrap.
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Beat me, whip me, make me mine bitcoins for you ...
(https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2017/12/20/Photos/ZH/MW-GA566_domina_20171220103852_ZH.jpg?uuid=e17658b2-e59b-11e7-a186-9c8e992d421e)
This dominatrix makes men mine cryptocurrency for her — and she now has over $1 million
Through financial domination, men get pleasure from giving her money
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-professional-dominatrix-made-men-mine-1-million-in-cryptocurrency-for-her-2017-12-20
The woman, who calls herself Theodora, is a financial dominatrix, which means clients — many of whom never meet her in person — derive sexual pleasure from giving her gifts and money. Exchanges of money can range from several dollars in “tributes,” as they are called, to gifts of more than six figures. Some clients even become a “human ATM,” meaning they give her complete control over a bank account.
“It’s a form of psychological domination where money is the tool for the transfer of power,” Theodora said. “It’s quite common for powerful men like politicians or CEOs to look for a form of sexual release by submitting to a woman — they are in control all the time during the day — and giving up control financially is a more tangible instrument of power for them.”
Based in Paris, Theodora has been working as a dominatrix for eight years and accepting cryptocurrency for four. She also specializes in “femdom hypnosis,” a process through which she says she’s able to dominate men using hypnotism. Her clients, all men, are in their late 30s to early 50s and usually come from the U.S. and the U.K., she said. They include a core group of 20 to 25 regular big spenders who make donations as high as $100,000 at once — some of whom she does “real time” sessions with in person — as well as 200 to 300 people who make smaller contributions online, most of whom never meet her in person. She communicates with them mostly online and by phone (she charges $25 a minute to call her and be ignored; $69 a minute to actually be spoken with).
... and here is your proof that bitcoin is the next big thing ...
She added that sex workers switching to bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies for payment is just “the natural progression” of the field, noting that the sex industry often drives innovation (think porn films and the evolution from VCR to streaming). “Cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology will find its way into our economy anyway and this is just one such avenue,” she said.
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Is that a bitcoin in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
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Is that a bitcoin in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
In my case, a gigabitcoin.
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In my case, a gigabitcoin microbitcoin.
fixed
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Beat me, whip me, make me mine bitcoins for you ...
(https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2017/12/20/Photos/ZH/MW-GA566_domina_20171220103852_ZH.jpg?uuid=e17658b2-e59b-11e7-a186-9c8e992d421e)
This dominatrix makes men mine cryptocurrency for her — and she now has over $1 million
Through financial domination, men get pleasure from giving her money
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-professional-dominatrix-made-men-mine-1-million-in-cryptocurrency-for-her-2017-12-20
The woman, who calls herself Theodora, is a financial dominatrix, which means clients — many of whom never meet her in person — derive sexual pleasure from giving her gifts and money. Exchanges of money can range from several dollars in “tributes,” as they are called, to gifts of more than six figures. Some clients even become a “human ATM,” meaning they give her complete control over a bank account.
“It’s a form of psychological domination where money is the tool for the transfer of power,” Theodora said. “It’s quite common for powerful men like politicians or CEOs to look for a form of sexual release by submitting to a woman — they are in control all the time during the day — and giving up control financially is a more tangible instrument of power for them.”
Based in Paris, Theodora has been working as a dominatrix for eight years and accepting cryptocurrency for four. She also specializes in “femdom hypnosis,” a process through which she says she’s able to dominate men using hypnotism. Her clients, all men, are in their late 30s to early 50s and usually come from the U.S. and the U.K., she said. They include a core group of 20 to 25 regular big spenders who make donations as high as $100,000 at once — some of whom she does “real time” sessions with in person — as well as 200 to 300 people who make smaller contributions online, most of whom never meet her in person. She communicates with them mostly online and by phone (she charges $25 a minute to call her and be ignored; $69 a minute to actually be spoken with).
... and here is your proof that bitcoin is the next big thing ...
She added that sex workers switching to bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies for payment is just “the natural progression” of the field, noting that the sex industry often drives innovation (think porn films and the evolution from VCR to streaming). “Cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology will find its way into our economy anyway and this is just one such avenue,” she said.
Herman Cain?
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand there it is...we are officially in a bubble:
Long Island Iced Tea shares went gangbusters after changing its name to Long Blockchain
Want to increase company value on the open market? Just change your name to something blockchain. At least, that worked for the Long Island Iced Tea Corp after changing its name to Long Blockchain Corp.
In what is the most 2017 thing ever, company shares soared by as much as 500 percent in pre-market trading this morning after the company announced the name change, settling back to about a 275 percent gain.
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/long-island-iced-tea-shares-180545401.html
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The reserve currency is the base currency of the world, the currency everything is priced in dollars. Since the early 1970s it has been the dollar (before that it was the British Pound and before that, going back to the 19th century, it was gold).
Because the dollar is the reserve currency, commodities like gold and crude oil are priced and quoted in dollars. So, for example, if you go to the London gold market, or go to Dubai and ask for a quote on Saudi heavy crude oil, that quote is in dollars. If you want to buy it using another currency, you must convert that currency to dollars. (they will accept Euros or Chinese Yuan but you must take the currency risk of converting that currency at its exchange rate to the dollar.)
The rest of the world is more than ready to move on from the dollar as the world's exchange rate. There have been attempts to try and use other currencies like the Euro and/or Yuan but they are either too small (Euro) or not fully convertible (which means the Chinese government puts too many rules on it). The fact that bitcoin has much higher penetration in the rest of the world, especially the third world, suggests they might be willing to accept it as a reserve currency. Meaning that it will be the way everything in the world is priced. So when you look up the price of crude oil, it is in bitcoins per barrel. (or whatever cryptocurrency emerges as the dominant medium of exchange.) Then if an American oil company wants to buy oil, they must convert and the dollar/crypto exchange rate.
Now, let me be clear, this is the long term goal, like a decade or two away. Many issues have to be solved before, like transfer rate speed and adoption. But that is its ultimate goal. And, my usual caveat, there is a significant chance that it fails and none of this happens.
That said, in world markets, there has been a discussion of what replaces the dollar as the reserve currency or a long time, maybe we are seeing the beginning of that answer.
Paying banks to convert your Brazilian reals into US dollars in order to purchase, say, oil is indeed a cost. More precisely, I would say that it's an expense.
Bitcoin is expense free, but there is indeed a cost. There will always remain the possibility that people all stop using Bitcoin. In other words, there is some probability that Bitcoin is worthless one day. Call this Event 1.
To be sure, there is a possibility that the US dollar becomes worthless one day, too. Suppose, for instance, that the Fed hyperinflates the currency. Call this Event 2.
Ask yourself this question: which of these two events is more likely?
I would argue that Event 1 is more likely (since the US government can always require people to pay their taxes exclusively in US dollars, propping up its value if even a little bit). Thus, in expectation, Bitcoin is costlier than using the dollar. This is an expected cost, but a cost nontheless (think in terms of value at risk). With modern-day technology increasing at the pace that it is, I can see a role for banks to offer their FX services in between those two margins.
All of that is to say that I respectfully disagree with your opinion that Bitcoin will one day become the reserve currency of the world (as a pedantic aside, the way you use the term 'reserve currency' I would call 'vehicle currency').
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Paying banks to convert your Brazilian reals into US dollars in order to purchase, say, oil is indeed a cost. More precisely, I would say that it's an expense.
Bitcoin is expense free, but there is indeed a cost. There will always remain the possibility that people all stop using Bitcoin. In other words, there is some probability that Bitcoin is worthless one day. Call this Event 1.
To be sure, there is a possibility that the US dollar becomes worthless one day, too. Suppose, for instance, that the Fed hyperinflates the currency. Call this Event 2.
Ask yourself this question: which of these two events is more likely?
I would argue that Event 1 is more likely (since the US government can always require people to pay their taxes exclusively in US dollars, propping up its value if even a little bit). Thus, in expectation, Bitcoin is costlier than using the dollar. This is an expected cost, but a cost nontheless (think in terms of value at risk). With modern-day technology increasing at the pace that it is, I can see a role for banks to offer their FX services in between those two margins.
All of that is to say that I respectfully disagree with your opinion that Bitcoin will one day become the reserve currency of the world (as a pedantic aside, the way you use the term 'reserve currency' I would call 'vehicle currency').
All of this is correct ... and I have said repeatedly there is a non-trivial change all this goes to zero.
What I should have been clear about is this is a long-term view ... long-term goal.
Lastly "vehicle currency" is an accurate description but the proper term in economic circles is reserve currency.
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand there it is...we are officially in a bubble:
Long Island Iced Tea shares went gangbusters after changing its name to Long Blockchain
Want to increase company value on the open market? Just change your name to something blockchain. At least, that worked for the Long Island Iced Tea Corp after changing its name to Long Blockchain Corp.
In what is the most 2017 thing ever, company shares soared by as much as 500 percent in pre-market trading this morning after the company announced the name change, settling back to about a 275 percent gain.
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/long-island-iced-tea-shares-180545401.html
No it has officially been in a bubble for some time.
Trying to put a rational spin on this ... every company that adds bitcoin or blockchain to its name goes crazy. Similar to the .com name change crazy in the late 1990s.
The market is saying this is a really big deal (blockchain and bitcoin) as these name changes spark such a response.
In the late 1990s, the market was "right" to go crazy over ".com" as that was transformational for business and culture. I think it is equally correct over blockchain, it has the potential to do the same.
In the early 2000s a lot of these .com went bust (famously was Superbowl advertiser pets.com) and a lot of these blockchain named companies will also go bust. But, take the idea the market is suggesting with these spikes ... the blockchain and bitcoin (cryptos) are a really big deal.
Separate the price mania for the message. The reason all this stuff is going nuts is the market is saying/telling you that you are in the middle of the biggest disruption to business and culture since the invention of the internet itself.
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All of this is correct ... and I have said repeatedly there is a non-trivial change all this goes to zero.
What I should have been clear about is this is a long-term view ... long-term goal.
Lastly "vehicle currency" is an accurate description but the proper term in economic circles is reserve currency.
Not among academic economists. I'm aware of people using the two terms interchangeably (which is why I originally asked what you meant). But, alas, this is nitpicking.
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No it has officially been in a bubble for some time.
Trying to put a rational spin on this ... every company that adds bitcoin or blockchain to its name goes crazy. Similar to the .com name change crazy in the late 1990s.
The market is saying this is a really big deal (blockchain and bitcoin) as these name changes spark such a response.
In the late 1990s, the market was "right" to go crazy over ".com" as that was transformational for business and culture. I think it is equally correct over blockchain, it has the potential to do the same.
In the early 2000s a lot of these .com went bust (famously was Superbowl advertiser pets.com) and a lot of these blockchain named companies will also go bust. But, take the idea the market is suggesting with these spikes ... the blockchain and bitcoin (cryptos) are a really big deal.
Separate the price mania for the message. The reason all this stuff is going nuts is the market is saying/telling you that you are in the middle of the biggest disruption to business and culture since the invention of the internet itself.
The "add-dot-com-to-your-name-for-an-instant-price-spike" is exactly what came to mind when I read the article.
Your point about separating the price mania from the message is a good one--the exuberance in its current state may be irrational, but there is indeed good reason to be exuberant.
But what is the reason? Why the exuberance? Does the market feel the same way that you do: cryptos will eventually supplant many of the services that banks perform? Cryptos will replace government-backed fiat currency?
I need to think about this more.
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Fun day today. Down below 13k and falling fast!
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Fun day today. Down below 13k and falling fast!
I was up a couple thousand just last week, now down $900. It can definitely go up and down quickly.
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The "add-dot-com-to-your-name-for-an-instant-price-spike" is exactly what came to mind when I read the article.
Your point about separating the price mania from the message is a good one--the exuberance in its current state may be irrational, but there is indeed good reason to be exuberant.
But what is the reason? Why the exuberance? Does the market feel the same way that you do: cryptos will eventually supplant many of the services that banks perform? Cryptos will replace government-backed fiat currency?
I need to think about this more.
Not next year, and maybe not 2019. Markets are forward-looking. They see a real possibility this is the end game of cryptos and recognize the inherent risk, which explains the possibility. (This is my interpretation)
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Fun day today. Down below 13k and falling fast!
Down 27% from its peak earlier this week.
This is the FIFTH time it has corrected more than 25% THIS YEAR. The other four produced new highs. (seventh of at least 10% this year, the other six produced new highs).
If I had to guess what's going on now, again this is my guess ... Gdax (Global Digital Asset Exchange), the largest institutional exchange in the United States, keeps crash and experiencing service outages. Its traffic is overwhelming. Add to that they Gdax also "turned on" the August fork and now GDAX holders have Bitcoin Cash in their accounts. That happened two days ago. (I attempted to explain a fork above). So, every GDAX holder was given an early Christmas present of another coin worth $4,000. They inspired some selling (more selling of bitcoin as they are preferring to hold bitcoin cash.)
As I write this late Thursday night, still enjoying the destruction of American ... I'm opening an account on the Chinese exchange binance.com. I think this is the safest of the Chinese exchanges. I'm supremely frustrated with GDAX right now.
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Down 27% from its peak earlier this week.
This is the FIFTH time it has corrected more than 25% THIS YEAR. The other four produced new highs. (seventh of at least 10% this year, the other six produced new highs).
If I had to guess what's going on now, again this is my guess ... Gdax (Global Digital Asset Exchange), the largest institutional exchange in the United States, keeps crash and experiencing service outages. Its traffic is overwhelming. Add to that they Gdax also "turned on" the August fork and now GDAX holders have Bitcoin Cash in their accounts. That happened two days ago. (I attempted to explain a fork above). So, every GDAX holder was given an early Christmas present of another coin worth $4,000. They inspired some selling (more selling of bitcoin as they are preferring to hold bitcoin cash.)
As I write this late Thursday night, still enjoying the destruction of American ... I'm opening an account on the Chinese exchange binance.com. I think this is the safest of the Chinese exchanges. I'm supremely frustrated with GDAX right now.
I've two cryptos on Binance 8-) 8-)
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRnvNs8VAAE1Us9?format=jpg&name=medium)
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The true "future proof" investment (until quantum computing) is blockchain....find ways to invest in blockchain
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The true "future proof" investment (until quantum computing) is blockchain....find ways to invest in blockchain
Maybe... assuming nothing else changes... still more secure than anything else.
Also, when QC hits, everything is vulnerable from a cryptography standpoint.
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Interesting bitcoin article on financial site Seeking Alpha. (I think it might be blocked for non-subscribers, so I'll provide the text instead of a link). Again, I don't own bitcoin and am unlikely to ever do so, so I have no horse in the race. I came across this article and thought it was interesting.
+++
As I type this article, Bitcoin is flirting with entering a bear market. This week's newsletter highlights three relatively underfollowed, or misunderstood, stories in the background. Each of which alone virtually guarantees the arrival of a bear market. Altogether, combined with a bubble of tulip proportions, is setting the stage for an epic collapse.
The topics of the day are as follows:
Bigger than Denmark...
Fees???
Wall Street versus Main Street...
But, first off, the background on how we got here. It all started with the development of the blockchain, the underlying code allows for users to transfer digital assets directly to other users, in a secure and verifiable format. In an ever-digital world, blockchain is truly revolutionary and, as such, investors are piling into blockchain-type investments.
The most popular of these, by far, is the original blockchain currency that kicked it all off: Bitcoin. Since its creation in 2009, the price of Bitcoin has climbed from its start at a few pennies, most recently going parabolic to hit close to $20,000 per bitcoin. This is, of course, the definition of a mania, or bubble, and is destined to end.
Bitcoin is trading today at $15,700, which means it's down over 20% since reaching its recent high. The definition of a bear market is down 20%. This is not, however, the first bear market for Bitcoin, which has had several, very short-lived, downturns in its past. This time, however, I think it will be different. But, we'll get to that in a little while. First, the issues that doom Bitcoin's relevancy in the long-term and guarantee the inevitable fall from glory.
Bigger than Denmark... in terms of power consumption
Few people (at least I believe them to be few) understand the way Bitcoin transactions are processed and, more importantly, the massive energy consumption behind them. In an article titled Bitcoin's Insane Energy Consumption, Explained, by ARS Technica, they lay out in great detail how it all goes down.
The skyrocketing value of Bitcoin is leading to soaring energy consumption. According to one widely cited website that tracks the subject, the Bitcoin network is consuming power at an annual rate of 32TWh—about as much as Denmark. By the site's calculations, each Bitcoin transaction consumes 250kWh, enough to power homes for nine days.
Naturally, this is leading to concerns about sustainability. Eric Holthaus, a writer for Grist, projects that, at current growth rates, the Bitcoin network will "use as much electricity as the entire world does today" by early 2020. "This is an unsustainable trajectory," he writes.
Realize that Bitcoin, at this time, is just a bit player in the global payments industry. The number of Bitcoin transactions processed each day is a tiny fraction of the number of Visa (NYSE:V) or Mastercard (NYSE:MA) transactions, which is itself just a fraction of the payments industry. The point being that it seems impossible for Bitcoin to become a true currency as it is currently established.
The article does go on to discuss three possible ways to reduce the energy consumption behind the digital coins...
While Bitcoin may not be a total environmental disaster, the Earth would certainly be a greener place if the Bitcoin network didn't consume so much electricity to process a relatively small number of transactions.
There are basically three ways this could happen. One way, as we've already discussed, is for Bitcoin's price to decline.
A second option would be to shrink the network's 12.5 bitcoin-per-block reward sooner than the scheduled 2020 reduction. But that's easier said than done. Bitcoin mining companies are not going to go along with this willingly, and Bitcoin traditionalists are likely to oppose such a move as well.
Governments may also be powerless here. If any one country tries to force a change, mining operations would simply flee to another jurisdiction. Changing Bitcoin by regulatory fiat would require a coordinated global regulatory effort, which doesn't seem likely to happen any time soon.
A third option would be to change the Bitcoin mining process altogether. Bitcoin's current mining algorithm is based on computing a supermassive number of cryptographic hash functions. But other cryptocurrencies have been exploring alternatives. Bitcoin Gold is a recently created variant of Bitcoin that uses a "memory-hard" mining algorithm that might prove to be less power hungry—though it would still consume huge amounts of juice. More exotic mining algorithms exist that could dramatically reduce power consumption. Switching to an alternative mining algorithm would also be controversial among traditionalists and would be strongly opposed by miners. It would wipe out mining companies' multi-million dollar investments in custom mining hardware. Such a step is not impossible, but it seems unlikely to happen any time soon.
All of which means that Bitcoin's power-hungry ways are unlikely to change any time soon.
So, Bitcoin is using more energy than Denmark and that is only going to grow. Unless, the price goes down. That doesn't sound too promising, does it?
Fees... the currency of the future charges more per transaction than the currencies of the past?
This doesn't seem logical at all, does it? Wasn't Bitcoin supposed to, as a true peer-to-peer network, allow micro-payments and the like? Yet, think about it. Someone is processing these transactions and using all the energy in Denmark or wherever. They are buying computers and "mining" coins, which basically means investing in the network so that the blockchain is maintained. There's an expense to all of this and it comes back in the form of fees.
In an article by CNBC, the increasing cost of trading in Bitcoin is detailed. It's eye-opening, what the expenses are to do a simple transaction.
Bitcoin's price isn't the only thing soaring to colossal levels.
People are currently paying $28 on average to make transactions using the digital currency, according to data by BitInfoCharts.
Users of cryptocurrency exchanges like Coinbase incur such transaction fees when transferring money to an external bitcoin address. Bitcoin addresses are like virtual bank account numbers where users can store their bitcoin tokens.
Last week, a journalist said on Twitter that he paid $15 to send $100 worth of bitcoin from a digital wallet to a hardware wallet.
And earlier this month, another person claimed on Twitter that he had to pay a $16 fee to send $25 worth of bitcoin from one bitcoin address to another.
Bitcoin transaction fees are proving to be profitable for so-called bitcoin "miners". Miners work out complex cryptographic puzzles to add transactions to the blockchain, a decentralized record of all bitcoin transactions. They are paid in bitcoin in return for their services. On Monday, the total value of all transaction fees paid to miners hit an astronomical sum above $11 million on that one day, according to Blockchain.com data.
I find it next to impossible to believe that the fees associated with Bitcoin are this high, yet it's true. At $28 per transaction, they are unsustainable. And, like power consumption, there's really only one way they get reduced... with a lower price of Bitcoin.
Wall Street versus Main Street... the outcome never changes
This last week has seen the coming of many different financial instruments that allow investors more opportunity to place wagers on the future value of Bitcoin. Designed by Wall Street, these vehicles are bringing institutions into the playground that is Bitcoin trading.
There have been many jokes about how Wall Street is late to the game and that the average person has made the "easy money" in Bitcoin. As the price spiked to $19,000 on a vertical climb, this chatter got louder.
While it may be true that some people have indeed profited handsomely from the recent movement, let's be very clear about Wall Street. Just because the financial derivatives have come into existence at the heights doesn't mean that Goldman Sachs et. al. is backing up the truck here and buying digital currencies. Bitcoin's parabolic run of the last few weeks was very much Main Street piling in at the top of the bubble and Wall Street selling to them. And, now that they can short Bitcoin more easily, you better believe that they are the ones fading this move in bulk.
A few headlines from the last week should drive this point home.
Wall Street can't wait to short bitcoin - Axios
Hedge Funds Prepare to Trade Against Bitcoin - Bloomberg
Want to Short Bitcoin? The Time to Take Action Is Now - TheStreet
The top of the market could very well coincide with the beginning of futures trading in Bitcoin. But, Wall Street will not be the ones going down with the ship. Instead, they are going to be shooting holes in the hull of the Bitcoin battleship, cheering as it goes to its watery grave. Sadly, the inevitable outcome is always the same.
As the bear market starts, Bitcoin's days of trading higher are likely over. Like your mother said, you shouldn't play in the street.
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Godspeed bitcoiners... Ooof
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Maybe... assuming nothing else changes... still more secure than anything else.
Also, when QC hits, everything is vulnerable from a cryptography standpoint.
QC changes everything not just crypto when it hits. Will be more disruptive than printing press, interchangeable parts, and the internet combined.
Not hyperbole, life will completely change as we know it when QC is commercially available at scale. I’d guess that happens around 2030
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QC changes everything not just crypto when it hits. Will be more disruptive than printing press, interchangeable parts, and the internet combined.
Not hyperbole, life will completely change as we know it when QC is commercially available at scale. I’d guess that happens around 2030
Any recs where I can read more the potential impact of QC?
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QC changes everything not just crypto when it hits. Will be more disruptive than printing press, interchangeable parts, and the internet combined.
Not hyperbole, life will completely change as we know it when QC is commercially available at scale. I’d guess that happens around 2030
I'm not saying you're wrong.
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Novogratz dials back Bitcoin bullishness; delays Bitcoin hedge fund
Dec. 22, 2017 12:44 PM ET|By: Stephen Alpher, Seeking Alpha News Editor
"We didn’t like market conditions and we wanted to re-evaluate what we’re doing," says the hedge funder, who has put on hold plans to raise $500M for his Galaxy Digital Assets Fund.
Just a week ago, Novogratz was suggesting Bitcoin would hit $40K soon.
Today he's tweeting the crypto may have hit a short-term top, and expects consolidation in the $10K-$16K range for awhile, with maybe a tumble to $8K in the cards.
While many were hemming and hawing over what it meant by Litecoin founder's Charlie Lee's disclosure this week that he sold all his Litecoins, Novogratz pulled no punches. "When insiders sell it always is important."
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Interesting bitcoin article on financial site Seeking Alpha. (I think it might be blocked for non-subscribers, so I'll provide the text instead of a link). Again, I don't own bitcoin and am unlikely to ever do so, so I have no horse in the race. I came across this article and thought it was interesting.
+++
As I type this article, Bitcoin is flirting with entering a bear market. This week's newsletter highlights three relatively underfollowed, or misunderstood, stories in the background. Each of which alone virtually guarantees the arrival of a bear market. Altogether, combined with a bubble of tulip proportions, is setting the stage for an epic collapse.
The topics of the day are as follows:
Bigger than Denmark...
Fees???
Wall Street versus Main Street...
But, first off, the background on how we got here. It all started with the development of the blockchain, the underlying code allows for users to transfer digital assets directly to other users, in a secure and verifiable format. In an ever-digital world, blockchain is truly revolutionary and, as such, investors are piling into blockchain-type investments.
The most popular of these, by far, is the original blockchain currency that kicked it all off: Bitcoin. Since its creation in 2009, the price of Bitcoin has climbed from its start at a few pennies, most recently going parabolic to hit close to $20,000 per bitcoin. This is, of course, the definition of a mania, or bubble, and is destined to end.
Bitcoin is trading today at $15,700, which means it's down over 20% since reaching its recent high. The definition of a bear market is down 20%. This is not, however, the first bear market for Bitcoin, which has had several, very short-lived, downturns in its past. This time, however, I think it will be different. But, we'll get to that in a little while. First, the issues that doom Bitcoin's relevancy in the long-term and guarantee the inevitable fall from glory.
Bigger than Denmark... in terms of power consumption
Few people (at least I believe them to be few) understand the way Bitcoin transactions are processed and, more importantly, the massive energy consumption behind them. In an article titled Bitcoin's Insane Energy Consumption, Explained, by ARS Technica, they lay out in great detail how it all goes down.
The skyrocketing value of Bitcoin is leading to soaring energy consumption. According to one widely cited website that tracks the subject, the Bitcoin network is consuming power at an annual rate of 32TWh—about as much as Denmark. By the site's calculations, each Bitcoin transaction consumes 250kWh, enough to power homes for nine days.
Naturally, this is leading to concerns about sustainability. Eric Holthaus, a writer for Grist, projects that, at current growth rates, the Bitcoin network will "use as much electricity as the entire world does today" by early 2020. "This is an unsustainable trajectory," he writes.
Realize that Bitcoin, at this time, is just a bit player in the global payments industry. The number of Bitcoin transactions processed each day is a tiny fraction of the number of Visa (NYSE:V) or Mastercard (NYSE:MA) transactions, which is itself just a fraction of the payments industry. The point being that it seems impossible for Bitcoin to become a true currency as it is currently established.
The article does go on to discuss three possible ways to reduce the energy consumption behind the digital coins...
While Bitcoin may not be a total environmental disaster, the Earth would certainly be a greener place if the Bitcoin network didn't consume so much electricity to process a relatively small number of transactions.
There are basically three ways this could happen. One way, as we've already discussed, is for Bitcoin's price to decline.
A second option would be to shrink the network's 12.5 bitcoin-per-block reward sooner than the scheduled 2020 reduction. But that's easier said than done. Bitcoin mining companies are not going to go along with this willingly, and Bitcoin traditionalists are likely to oppose such a move as well.
Governments may also be powerless here. If any one country tries to force a change, mining operations would simply flee to another jurisdiction. Changing Bitcoin by regulatory fiat would require a coordinated global regulatory effort, which doesn't seem likely to happen any time soon.
A third option would be to change the Bitcoin mining process altogether. Bitcoin's current mining algorithm is based on computing a supermassive number of cryptographic hash functions. But other cryptocurrencies have been exploring alternatives. Bitcoin Gold is a recently created variant of Bitcoin that uses a "memory-hard" mining algorithm that might prove to be less power hungry—though it would still consume huge amounts of juice. More exotic mining algorithms exist that could dramatically reduce power consumption. Switching to an alternative mining algorithm would also be controversial among traditionalists and would be strongly opposed by miners. It would wipe out mining companies' multi-million dollar investments in custom mining hardware. Such a step is not impossible, but it seems unlikely to happen any time soon.
All of which means that Bitcoin's power-hungry ways are unlikely to change any time soon.
So, Bitcoin is using more energy than Denmark and that is only going to grow. Unless, the price goes down. That doesn't sound too promising, does it?
Fees... the currency of the future charges more per transaction than the currencies of the past?
This doesn't seem logical at all, does it? Wasn't Bitcoin supposed to, as a true peer-to-peer network, allow micro-payments and the like? Yet, think about it. Someone is processing these transactions and using all the energy in Denmark or wherever. They are buying computers and "mining" coins, which basically means investing in the network so that the blockchain is maintained. There's an expense to all of this and it comes back in the form of fees.
In an article by CNBC, the increasing cost of trading in Bitcoin is detailed. It's eye-opening, what the expenses are to do a simple transaction.
Bitcoin's price isn't the only thing soaring to colossal levels.
People are currently paying $28 on average to make transactions using the digital currency, according to data by BitInfoCharts.
Users of cryptocurrency exchanges like Coinbase incur such transaction fees when transferring money to an external bitcoin address. Bitcoin addresses are like virtual bank account numbers where users can store their bitcoin tokens.
Last week, a journalist said on Twitter that he paid $15 to send $100 worth of bitcoin from a digital wallet to a hardware wallet.
And earlier this month, another person claimed on Twitter that he had to pay a $16 fee to send $25 worth of bitcoin from one bitcoin address to another.
Bitcoin transaction fees are proving to be profitable for so-called bitcoin "miners". Miners work out complex cryptographic puzzles to add transactions to the blockchain, a decentralized record of all bitcoin transactions. They are paid in bitcoin in return for their services. On Monday, the total value of all transaction fees paid to miners hit an astronomical sum above $11 million on that one day, according to Blockchain.com data.
I find it next to impossible to believe that the fees associated with Bitcoin are this high, yet it's true. At $28 per transaction, they are unsustainable. And, like power consumption, there's really only one way they get reduced... with a lower price of Bitcoin.
Wall Street versus Main Street... the outcome never changes
This last week has seen the coming of many different financial instruments that allow investors more opportunity to place wagers on the future value of Bitcoin. Designed by Wall Street, these vehicles are bringing institutions into the playground that is Bitcoin trading.
There have been many jokes about how Wall Street is late to the game and that the average person has made the "easy money" in Bitcoin. As the price spiked to $19,000 on a vertical climb, this chatter got louder.
While it may be true that some people have indeed profited handsomely from the recent movement, let's be very clear about Wall Street. Just because the financial derivatives have come into existence at the heights doesn't mean that Goldman Sachs et. al. is backing up the truck here and buying digital currencies. Bitcoin's parabolic run of the last few weeks was very much Main Street piling in at the top of the bubble and Wall Street selling to them. And, now that they can short Bitcoin more easily, you better believe that they are the ones fading this move in bulk.
A few headlines from the last week should drive this point home.
Wall Street can't wait to short bitcoin - Axios
Hedge Funds Prepare to Trade Against Bitcoin - Bloomberg
Want to Short Bitcoin? The Time to Take Action Is Now - TheStreet
The top of the market could very well coincide with the beginning of futures trading in Bitcoin. But, Wall Street will not be the ones going down with the ship. Instead, they are going to be shooting holes in the hull of the Bitcoin battleship, cheering as it goes to its watery grave. Sadly, the inevitable outcome is always the same.
As the bear market starts, Bitcoin's days of trading higher are likely over. Like your mother said, you shouldn't play in the street.
Good article, couple of thoughts....
If 20% is the definition of a bear market, this is bitcoin 11th bear market in the last 3 years. Is about one every 3 1/2 months. The previous bear market was early November.
So I’m not sure how relevant it is to note it’s fell 20%. It does it frequently and alway recovers to new highs.
Regarding computational and electricity consumption, that is a problem. But like have noted above, that is why we have over 1300 cryptos and bitcoin has been forked twice (to “cash” and “gold”). They are trying to fixed these issues.
I sold all my bitcoins and swapped into ripple, litecoin and etherum. Going to by bitcoin cash as well (on the pullback).
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Good article, couple of thoughts....
If 20% is the definition of a bear market, this is bitcoin 11th bear market in the last 3 years. Is about one every 3 1/2 months. The previous bear market was early November.
So I’m not sure how relevant it is to note it’s fell 20%. It does it frequently and alway recovers to new highs.
Regarding computational and electricity consumption, that is a problem. But like have noted above, that is why we have over 1300 cryptos and bitcoin has been forked twice (to “cash” and “gold”). They are trying to fixed these issues.
I sold all my bitcoins and swapped into ripple, litecoin and etherum. Going to by bitcoin cash as well (on the pullback).
Personally, I'm avoiding Bcash. Look into Roger Ver. He is the definition of douche bag.
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Ripple.
Makes me laugh every time I see a reference to it.
Reminds me of Fred Sanford!
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Ripple.
Makes me laugh every time I see a reference to it.
Reminds me of Fred Sanford!
Has a good technology that could make it a serious competitor in becoming the medium of exchange. And it was up 50% yesterday, 300% in the last month or so.
Their is a crypto called “Jesus Coin” .... interested?
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Has a good technology that could make it a serious competitor in becoming the medium of exchange. And it was up 50% yesterday, 300% in the last month or so.
Their is a crypto called “Jesus Coin” .... interested?
Sure. Buy one for me. Or a million of 'em. Or however much anybody can buy of any of this stuff.
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Yukon
Based on my limited knowledge on the topic, I chose to buy Ripple for the reasons you noted. I am going to give XRB a year and not trade or sell my initial buy and see what happens. I had small LTC position and rolled into XRB on Friday morning. Fingers crossed and looking forward to seeing where XRB is at on 12/1/18.
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Yukon
Based on my limited knowledge on the topic, I chose to buy Ripple for the reasons you noted. I am going to give XRB a year and not trade or sell my initial buy and see what happens. I had small LTC position and rolled into XRB on Friday morning. Fingers crossed and looking forward to seeing where XRB is at on 12/1/18.
You got in at a great time. I went for REQ and wish that I aimed XRB on that dip. REQ seems to be a great tech, but will grow more conservatively.
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Interesting story about a Milwaukee start called Coinigy that offers a trading platform for dealing in cryptos.
They are involved with MU’s Block Chain lab ... mentioned at the bottom of the story.
As interest in bitcoin grows, so does Milwaukee startup Coinigy
https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/onramp/2017/12/22/bitcoin-growing-fast-milwaukee-firm-coinigy/949729001/
Marquette University’s College of Business Administration established a Blockchain Lab this fall to prepare students to develop solutions to problems using the technology. The lab is planning community learning sessions and other events.
“This is not just a fringe, dark-web, libertarian movement,” said Heather Sullivan, the college’s associate director for external relations. “It’s catching everyone’s attention, from Fortune 500 to startups.”
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The Marquette Blockchain Lab, established in the fall of 2017, facilitates education, research and innovation, and collaboration in the interest of advancing knowledge and implementation of distributed ledger solutions. It is an interdisciplinary initiative that unites students, faculty, and community partners from across disciplines and industries to create workable blockchain solutions to a wide array of problems.
http://www.marquette.edu/business/companies/blockchain-lab.php
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Interesting story about a Milwaukee start called Coinigy that offers a trading platform for dealing in cryptos.
They are involved with MU’s Block Chain lab ... mentioned at the bottom of the story.
As interest in bitcoin grows, so does Milwaukee startup Coinigy
https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/onramp/2017/12/22/bitcoin-growing-fast-milwaukee-firm-coinigy/949729001/
Marquette University’s College of Business Administration established a Blockchain Lab this fall to prepare students to develop solutions to problems using the technology. The lab is planning community learning sessions and other events.
“This is not just a fringe, dark-web, libertarian movement,” said Heather Sullivan, the college’s associate director for external relations. “It’s catching everyone’s attention, from Fortune 500 to startups.”
Coinigy Arena coming to 6th and Michigan in 2025.
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Coinigy Arena coming to 6th and Michigan in 2025.
Can join Enron Field and TWA Dome on the scrap heap of stadium/arena names in 2026.
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18 minute Ted talk about what the blockchain is, how it works (nontechnical) how bitcoin fits in and why all of this is the biggest deal since the invention of the internet itself.
Worth a look.
https://ted.com/talks/don_tapscott_how_the_blockchain_is_changing_money_and_business?utm_source=sms&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tedspread--b
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Israel latest to crack down on bitcoin.
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3319979-israel-latest-crack-bitcoin
Dec. 25, 2017 3:03 PM ET|By: Yoel Minkoff, SA News Editor
Israel has become the latest nation to crack down on cryptocurrencies, proposing regulation to ban companies trading in bitcoin from operating on the Tel Aviv stock exchange.
"I think it looks like a bubble, smells like a bubble, acts like a bubble and feels like a bubble," said Israel Securities Agency Chairman Shmuel Hauser.
The move follows last week's warnings by FINRA against firms that "tout the potential of high returns associated with cryptocurrency-related activities," as well as China's decision to shutter bitcoin exchanges and ban ICOs in September.
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Israel latest to crack down on bitcoin.
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3319979-israel-latest-crack-bitcoin
Dec. 25, 2017 3:03 PM ET|By: Yoel Minkoff, SA News Editor
Israel has become the latest nation to crack down on cryptocurrencies, proposing regulation to ban companies trading in bitcoin from operating on the Tel Aviv stock exchange.
"I think it looks like a bubble, smells like a bubble, acts like a bubble and feels like a bubble," said Israel Securities Agency Chairman Shmuel Hauser.
The move follows last week's warnings by FINRA against firms that "tout the potential of high returns associated with cryptocurrency-related activities," as well as China's decision to shutter bitcoin exchanges and ban ICOs in September.
Shocking that someone with skin in the game would say something like this!
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Thurs and Friday last week I was fairly under water. By Tuesday, back in the black. Today, slightly under. I suspect this ride goes on for some time.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/bitcoin-sinks-below-dollar14000-on-possible-exchange-closures/ar-BBHqORc?li=BBnbfcN
down 26% in a week. Too volatile for my tastes.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/bitcoin-sinks-below-dollar14000-on-possible-exchange-closures/ar-BBHqORc?li=BBnbfcN
down 26% in a week. Too volatile for my tastes.
Allow me to pff this. It has been up 3% in the last week (at the time of this posting) and up 42% since last month. Has there been huge swings? Sure.
Does it have anything at all to do with potential regulation of exchanges in SK? uhhhh not a chance.
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Allow me to pff this. It has been up 3% in the last week (at the time of this posting) and up 42% since last month. Has there been huge swings? Sure.
Does it have anything at all to do with potential regulation of exchanges in SK? uhhhh not a chance.
You have to understand that huge swings are what drives more risk adverse people (like me) out of these products. And since I don't have enough knowledge to comfortably diversify myself, I am perfectly willing to sacrifice some return and invest in the five different balanced mutual funds I do now.
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You have to understand that huge swings are what drives more risk adverse people (like me) out of these products. And since I don't have enough knowledge to comfortably diversify myself, I am perfectly willing to sacrifice some return and invest in the five different balanced mutual funds I do now.
I absolutely do, and if I was a decade older I'd also be less risk averse.
But my main point is that to say it 'dropped' 26% is fairly disingenuous. Did it drop 26% from the all time high? Sure! This doesn't mean it isn't still a solid investment.
I think a lot of people here (and I'd argue most speculative investors) don't really understand what crypto really is... It isn't like buying a stock, or a soy future... or even stashing money in gold (though its the best comparison).
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Yukon
Any thoughts on the Ripple big move? Been buying a little everyday and going to keep running with it. Curious on your take.
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Yukon
Any thoughts on the Ripple big move? Been buying a little everyday and going to keep running with it. Curious on your take.
I know it wasn't directed at me, but Ripple is a centralized coin. It is certainly an anomaly. It has been doing really well value wise, but it is missing some of the main components of a crypto. I don't own any, but its value has gone through the roof, and if you have some in your wallet (as you seem to!) you're probably pretty happy right now with its market cap... because it passed Ether yesterday.
Here is a quick hitter rundown for those curious.
https://www.investopedia.com/news/why-some-claim-ripple-isnt-real-cryptocurrency-0/ (https://www.investopedia.com/news/why-some-claim-ripple-isnt-real-cryptocurrency-0/)
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Thanks, Hards. Fingers crossed it keeps climbing. One of my sons and I are making some dough, but watching closely. That said, I’ll probably ride it and see what happens over next few months.
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I know it wasn't directed at me, but Ripple is a centralized coin. It is certainly an anomaly. It has been doing really well value wise, but it is missing some of the main components of a crypto. I don't own any, but its value has gone through the roof, and if you have some in your wallet (as you seem to!) you're probably pretty happy right now with its market cap... because it passed Ether yesterday.
Here is a quick hitter rundown for those curious.
https://www.investopedia.com/news/why-some-claim-ripple-isnt-real-cryptocurrency-0/ (https://www.investopedia.com/news/why-some-claim-ripple-isnt-real-cryptocurrency-0/)
Ripple is now the second largest crypto (Ehtereum is now third) and the second behind bitcoin to top $100 billion. As the link above explains, Ripple is really designed as an efficient payment system that can instantly and without cost or friction transfer “ownership” of its “tokens” among accounts. To do this Ripple did away with miners and is more centralized. This centralization is why some argue it is not a real crypto.
As I noted before, their are 1300 cryptos. They are all trying to be something different and they are all trying to solve a problem. Did we need this many? For now yes as they are all different. Over time we will decide which ones make sense and which ones are irrelevant.
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Ever wish you were “smart enough” to jump on the internet craze in the early 1990s and make a ton of money? Here’s your chance now with blockchain. As I wrote before, it is the biggest deal since the invention of the internet itself.
And no I’m not talking about buying bitcoin or Ripple only. Their will be other ways to play this. But before you do, invest the time to understand what it is all about, it might affect your life and career somewhere down the line.
I posted this before ... watch it.
https://ted.com/talks/don_tapscott_how_the_blockchain_is_changing_money_and_business?utm_source=sms&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tedspread--b
A simple explanation why the block chain is a big deal? Right now anything put on the internet is a “copy.” That includes this post. Anyone can copy and paste an exact replica of it.
This destroys intellectual property like writings (see the newspaper industry) or music or streaming video.
The Blockchain allows files to stay “original”and cannot be “copied” but can be “transferred” when “permission” is granted via a distributed ledger and a private key (aka “the blockchain”). Since files cannot be “copied” this allows for the idea of crypto currencies as they only have one original version that can be transferred instead of copied over and over like an mp3 file (which rips off the artist). The idea of keeping files “original” will spawn literally thousands of other applications that will change the way we do things. The Ted Talk link above explains this.
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MU82 ... read the post above because the blockchain and cryptos could be the salvation of the newspaper industry. Here’s how ...
You write an article. You offer the first 50 words as a teaser, to read more, enter your private key and for 3 cents (or 5 or 10) you can access the rest. No registration, no monthly fees, no passwords. It is as effortless as reading it for free now.
So the author gets paid and he is protected. Because the person that bought that copy cannot copy and paste it and send it to everyone via email, or post it on a message board like MUscoop. What they can do is “transfer” it to another. But then it is gone from their computer. It is the digital version of the dead tree newspaper. I can read it and then hand it to someone else. No photocopying it.
Why will you happily pay 3 cents (or 5 or 10) to read an article. Think of all the monthly charges you pay for intellectual property. Start with video (cables, netflixs) and then go to newsletters then newspapers (WSJ, NYT) and end with sites you pay for access (ESPN). If you are like me you are way overpaying and it is probably in excess of $200 or $300/month. All this goes away, including registration, passwords and monthly charges. Instead you piece meal out 3 cents here, 5 cents here, 1 penny a minute to stream there. You will pay a lot less every month.
And for the content providers, they have opened their site to the billion internet users worldwide. When their work goes viral, they will get tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands to pay them 3 cents. Netflix is now open to a billion people that can enter their private key (in less than 2 seconds) and start streaming anything for 1 cent a minute. No registration, no passwords.
So when everyone says “Stranger Things” is really good. No debating opening an account and the hassle of registering, remember yet another password, and entering a credit card. Just click your private key and in 2 seconds you start watching for 1 penny a minute. Dont’s Like it after 25 minutes. Turn it off and you’re out a whole quarter!
By making things more efficient, users (like us) pay less and content providers (like Netflix and The NY Times) get a lot more.
It restores the value of intellectual property and stops pirating.
That is why it is a the biggest deal since the invention of the internet itself.
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Okey dokey, Smuggles, you're in charge of saving the newspaper industry with bitcoin.
As Capt. Jean-Luc Picard used to say, "Make it so."
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For you Ripple guys, what exchange have you been using to purchase?
Bitfinex
Bitstamp
Bithumb
Binance
Bittrex
Poloniex
Kraken
Coinone
Other?
For Bitcoin I have always used Coinbase, but would love some feedback on what exchanges you use for Ripple.
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MU82 ... read the post above because the blockchain and cryptos could be the salvation of the newspaper industry. Here’s how ...
You write an article. You offer the first 50 words as a teaser, to read more, enter your private key and for 3 cents (or 5 or 10) you can access the rest. No registration, no monthly fees, no passwords. It is as effortless as reading it for free now.
So the author gets paid and he is protected. Because the person that bought that copy cannot copy and paste it and send it to everyone via email, or post it on a message board like MUscoop. What they can do is “transfer” it to another. But then it is gone from their computer. It is the digital version of the dead tree newspaper. I can read it and then hand it to someone else. No photocopying it.
Why will you happily pay 3 cents (or 5 or 10) to read an article. Think of all the monthly charges you pay for intellectual property. Start with video (cables, netflixs) and then go to newsletters then newspapers (WSJ, NYT) and end with sites you pay for access (ESPN). If you are like me you are way overpaying and it is probably in excess of $200 or $300/month. All this goes away, including registration, passwords and monthly charges. Instead you piece meal out 3 cents here, 5 cents here, 1 penny a minute to stream there. You will pay a lot less every month.
And for the content providers, they have opened their site to the billion internet users worldwide. When their work goes viral, they will get tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands to pay them 3 cents. Netflix is now open to a billion people that can enter their private key (in less than 2 seconds) and start streaming anything for 1 cent a minute. No registration, no passwords.
So when everyone says “Stranger Things” is really good. No debating opening an account and the hassle of registering, remember yet another password, and entering a credit card. Just click your private key and in 2 seconds you start watching for 1 penny a minute. Dont’s Like it after 25 minutes. Turn it off and you’re out a whole quarter!
By making things more efficient, users (like us) pay less and content providers (like Netflix and The NY Times) get a lot more.
It restores the value of intellectual property and stops pirating.
That is why it is a the biggest deal since the invention of the internet itself.
What's prevents someone from taking a screenshot? (Or saving the webpage as a PDF)
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For you Ripple guys, what exchange have you been using to purchase?
Bitfinex
Bitstamp
Bithumb
Binance
Bittrex
Poloniex
Kraken
Coinone
Other?
For Bitcoin I have always used Coinbase, but would love some feedback on what exchanges you use for Ripple.
I use Binance (Chinese exchange)
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WarriorDad
I have been using Kraken. Not good, but got me into the game.
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What's prevents someone from taking a screenshot? (Or saving the webpage as a PDF)
There are thousands of ways to beat such a system. People that think any type of new technology will stop piracy, do not understand history or technology.
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There are thousands of ways to beat such a system. People that think any type of new technology will stop piracy, do not understand history or technology.
This is the problem with the internet, allowing the priating of intellectual property (which is a crime) to the point that people think it is a right to steal that property for free.
The blockchain, and the 1300 version of crypto currencies are trying to solve this problem. It will happen ... don’t think linearly. Otherwise you become a luddidite that still think your bank account will be hacked and all your money will be stolen. That was solved and this will be too.
(One of the many ways to solve it, you will be charged for a screenshot.)
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In addition, most people are willing to pay for content if the fee is reasonable, and easy to accomplish.
The possibility of me subscribing to MJS to read one article here and there is absurd. Now, if there was a button on the page that said, "To continue reading further, I agree to send 1 XRP (or whatever crypto they are using)" I'd have a lot more chance of spending that money to read the article I want to read. Price is low, easy to complete, and no one knows what I'm spending MY money on.
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For you Ripple guys, what exchange have you been using to purchase?
Bitfinex
Bitstamp
Bithumb
Binance
Bittrex
Poloniex
Kraken
Coinone
Other?
For Bitcoin I have always used Coinbase, but would love some feedback on what exchanges you use for Ripple.
I also use Binance for trades between cryptos.
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I also use Binance for trades between cryptos.
Thank you. I signed up today. Have been using Exodus as my digital wallet, but it doesn't currently support Ripple.
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You Can Now Buy A Private Prison On Craigslist With Bitcoin
https://denver.craigslist.org/bfd/d/owner-financing60000-sf/6412537893.html
The facility is located in Brush, Colorado with an asking price of $1,200,000 or 88 bitcoins @ 13,650.23. And yes, the listing broker accepts bitcoin.
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Uh-oh, bitcoin investors.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-02/criminal-underworld-is-dropping-bitcoin-for-another-currency
Yep, it looks like the "criminal underworld" has lost confidence in bitcoin!
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Merrill Lynch won't let its advisors by bitcoin on behalf of clients.
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3321069-wsj-merrill-lynch-bars-trading-bitcoin-fund-futures?ifp=0
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A cryptocurrency created as a parody is now worth more than $1 billion
* Dogecoin, a cryptocurrency created as a parody after a popular internet meme, now has a market cap of more than $1.1 billion
* The rise of Dogecoin and other bitcoin descendants is due to the fact that they're perceived as being "cheap" compared to bitcoin or ether, according to Dave Chapman from Octagon Strategy
* One of the Dogecoin founders told a cryptocurrency news site that the token's rise makes him worry about market excess
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/04/cryptocurrency-dogecoin-now-has-a-market-value-of-more-than-1-billion.html?__source=Facebook%7Cmain
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After shutting down local bitcoin exchanges and banning ICOs, China is moving to eradicate the country's bitcoin mining industry over concerns about excessive electricity consumption and financial risk, FT reports.
Another crackdown? The SEC has asked ProShares, as well as Van Eck Associates and First Trust Advisors, to shelve applications for bitcoin-related ETFs, marking a similar rejection issued to the Winklevoss twins last March.
(From Seeking Alpha this morning)
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Stocks
South Korea is planning to ban cryptocurrency trading via exchanges, according to Justice Minister Park Sang-ki, sending bitcoin prices plummeting and throwing the virtual coin market into turmoil. It's a major development as the country is one of the biggest markets in the crypto space. The news also follows yesterday's warning from Warren Buffett that speculation in bitcoin, and other cryptocurrencies, "will have a bad ending."
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Forbes.com ran a contributor piece this morning titled "Three Lies Bitcoin Skeptics Tell Themselves." The contributor/author is a cryptoid (read: crypto fan/owner/promoter) who is responding to another contributor piece titled "Seven Lies Bitcoin Fans Tell Themselves (And Anyone Who Will Listen)" that ran in December.
In short, the three lies that skeptics tell themselves (according to the first piece) are:
1) Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme
2) Bitcoin is not secure
3) Bitcoin cannot be used as money
So here you have a cryptoid who's had over a month to respond to a "Bitcoin fan lies" article with his own "skeptic lies" article, yet these are the only three he could conjure? Moreover, I don't know of any crypto skeptic who has claimed Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, so really, there are only two "lies" here, and both of the remainder are - at best - half lies (or half untruths?), i.e. granted Bitcoin is not not secure, but wallets and keys aren't always secure & Bitcoin can be used as money at some merchants, but it can't be used like money at all merchants.
Moreover, half of his references are citing information coming from pro-crypto sources, e.g. coindesk, 99bitcoins, the author's previous work, etc.
I'm actually working on a white paper discussing both sides of cryptos, and frankly, I've got 6 pages debunking the hype and explaining why cryptos are to be mostly avoided, but it's proving to be quite difficult to gather anything objective/empirical that would indicate a positive future for cryptos (not the future of blockchain... that's a different story) or its place in the global financial system just so I can present both sides. In fact, I'm having a hard time finding anyone who doesn't hold Bitcoin (or isn't being incentivized to promote it) who will suggest - or even speculate - that cryptos are a good investment.
So I'm just going to be transparent here because evidently Benny's mad skillz are fading and trolling you cryptos in the hopes that you'll bombard me with something meaningful I can use simply isn't working. Someone please help me out here... make the case for cryptos without citing hype because the only thing I've seen is a WSJ link that Heisey posted which is actually more con/neutral than pro-crypto.
Something peer-reviewed from another country would be ideal (preferably written or translated to English), but at this point I'd settle for anything written by anyone with any sort of objectivity with a Master's in any discipline so long as it's a notch about U of Phoenix.
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Forbes.com ran a contributor piece this morning titled "Three Lies Bitcoin Skeptics Tell Themselves." The contributor/author is a cryptoid (read: crypto fan/owner/promoter) who is responding to another contributor piece titled "Seven Lies Bitcoin Fans Tell Themselves (And Anyone Who Will Listen)" that ran in December.
In short, the three lies that skeptics tell themselves (according to the first piece) are:
1) Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme
2) Bitcoin is not secure
3) Bitcoin cannot be used as money
So here you have a cryptoid who's had over a month to respond to a "Bitcoin fan lies" article with his own "skeptic lies" article, yet these are the only three he could conjure? Moreover, I don't know of any crypto skeptic who has claimed Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, so really, there are only two "lies" here, and both of the remainder are - at best - half lies (or half untruths?), i.e. granted Bitcoin is not not secure, but wallets and keys aren't always secure & Bitcoin can be used as money at some merchants, but it can't be used like money at all merchants.
Moreover, half of his references are citing information coming from pro-crypto sources, e.g. coindesk, 99bitcoins, the author's previous work, etc.
I'm actually working on a white paper discussing both sides of cryptos, and frankly, I've got 6 pages debunking the hype and explaining why cryptos are to be mostly avoided, but it's proving to be quite difficult to gather anything objective/empirical that would indicate a positive future for cryptos (not the future of blockchain... that's a different story) or its place in the global financial system just so I can present both sides. In fact, I'm having a hard time finding anyone who doesn't hold Bitcoin (or isn't being incentivized to promote it) who will suggest - or even speculate - that cryptos are a good investment.
So I'm just going to be transparent here because evidently Benny's mad skillz are fading and trolling you cryptos in the hopes that you'll bombard me with something meaningful I can use simply isn't working. Someone please help me out here... make the case for cryptos without citing hype because the only thing I've seen is a WSJ link that Heisey posted which is actually more con/neutral than pro-crypto.
Something peer-reviewed from another country would be ideal (preferably written or translated to English), but at this point I'd settle for anything written by anyone with any sort of objectivity with a Master's in any discipline so long as it's a notch about U of Phoenix.
Jamie Dimon called Bitcoin a Ponzi Scheme a few months ago.
As far as anything peer-reviewed, you will likely have to wait. As far as objective with a notch above U of Phoenix, there are a couple of decent blog posts by some good economists:
https://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2017/11/bitcoin-and-bubbles.html
http://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com/2017/10/bitcoin-backlash-back-to-drawing-board.html
And FWIW, Nouriel Roubini--one of the few non-Austrian economists who predicted the burst of the Housing Bubble--claims that the crypto bubble will find its end (http://www.businessinsider.com/qa-with-nouriel-roubini-bitcoin-is-a-gigantic-speculative-bubble-that-will-end-2017-11) (though he is bullish on blockchain technology more generally).
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Forbes.com ran a contributor piece this morning titled "Three Lies Bitcoin Skeptics Tell Themselves." The contributor/author is a cryptoid (read: crypto fan/owner/promoter) who is responding to another contributor piece titled "Seven Lies Bitcoin Fans Tell Themselves (And Anyone Who Will Listen)" that ran in December.
In short, the three lies that skeptics tell themselves (according to the first piece) are:
1) Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme
2) Bitcoin is not secure
3) Bitcoin cannot be used as money
So here you have a cryptoid who's had over a month to respond to a "Bitcoin fan lies" article with his own "skeptic lies" article, yet these are the only three he could conjure? Moreover, I don't know of any crypto skeptic who has claimed Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, so really, there are only two "lies" here, and both of the remainder are - at best - half lies (or half untruths?), i.e. granted Bitcoin is not not secure, but wallets and keys aren't always secure & Bitcoin can be used as money at some merchants, but it can't be used like money at all merchants.
Moreover, half of his references are citing information coming from pro-crypto sources, e.g. coindesk, 99bitcoins, the author's previous work, etc.
I'm actually working on a white paper discussing both sides of cryptos, and frankly, I've got 6 pages debunking the hype and explaining why cryptos are to be mostly avoided, but it's proving to be quite difficult to gather anything objective/empirical that would indicate a positive future for cryptos (not the future of blockchain... that's a different story) or its place in the global financial system just so I can present both sides. In fact, I'm having a hard time finding anyone who doesn't hold Bitcoin (or isn't being incentivized to promote it) who will suggest - or even speculate - that cryptos are a good investment.
So I'm just going to be transparent here because evidently Benny's mad skillz are fading and trolling you cryptos in the hopes that you'll bombard me with something meaningful I can use simply isn't working. Someone please help me out here... make the case for cryptos without citing hype because the only thing I've seen is a WSJ link that Heisey posted which is actually more con/neutral than pro-crypto.
Something peer-reviewed from another country would be ideal (preferably written or translated to English), but at this point I'd settle for anything written by anyone with any sort of objectivity with a Master's in any discipline so long as it's a notch about U of Phoenix.
I'm not pro or con at this point....however the pro cause is relatively small simply because the entire concept of cryptocurrency is to circumvent government-based financial instruments, either for legitimate (reduce transactional friction/cost) or illegitimate (tax evasion, illicit activities). I haven't seen much of anything written about the transactional friction aspect, but I think that's largely because regulators are moving to limit/eliminate that benefit (insert commentary on the police/nanny state here).
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Jamie Dimon called Bitcoin a Ponzi Scheme a few months ago.
As far as anything peer-reviewed, you will likely have to wait. As far as objective with a notch above U of Phoenix, there are a couple of decent blog posts by some good economists:
https://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2017/11/bitcoin-and-bubbles.html
http://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com/2017/10/bitcoin-backlash-back-to-drawing-board.html
And FWIW, Nouriel Roubini--one of the few non-Austrian economists who predicted the burst of the Housing Bubble--claims that the crypto bubble will find its end (http://www.businessinsider.com/qa-with-nouriel-roubini-bitcoin-is-a-gigantic-speculative-bubble-that-will-end-2017-11) (though he is bullish on blockchain technology more generally).
Bearish on bitcoin (or cryptos in general) and bullish on blockchain is code for "I don't understand what I'm saying." Nouriel is certainly in this camp. It's like being bullish on the internal combustion engine and bearish on the automobile. One is the technology and the other is the app. They need each other to work.
https://www.barrons.com/articles/bitcoin-is-here-to-stayand-other-tech-trends-for-2018-1514601904//
Q: What don?t people understand about bitcoin?
A: Many people say ?I don?t know about bitcoin, but I believe in blockchain.? That?s a cop-out because most people still can?t explain blockchain. They don?t really believe in bitcoin, but want to say something positive about it. Yes, blockchain is a distributed public ledger, but we?re really talking about strong cryptography based on mathematics that is being used to create the distributed ledger of bitcoin transactions. Bitcoins don?t exist in a material way. Nothing is actually mined. Computers are being paid in bitcoin for adding transactions to this distributed ledger.
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And speaking of not knowing what they are talking about, here's what America's favorite bumbling old man that has done nothing in 15 years but we treat him like a demigod said yesterday ...
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-10/buffett-i-would-buy-five-year-put-every-cryptocurrency
"In terms of cryptocurrencies, generally, I can say with almost certainty that they will come to a bad ending," said Buffett, the chairman and CEO of Berkshire Hathaway.
But then there is this ...
Still, Buffett admitting that he'd be a seller even though he "doesn't know anything about" bitcoin - he even claimed he wouldn't be able to explain bitcoin to a classroom of young students - should signal that readers should take his comments with a grain of salt.
After all, by his own admission, Buffett doesn't know what he's talking about.
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Binance was started in August. It now has 4.5 million accounts and opening them at a rate of 240,000/hour!
The CEO fled China for Japan because of the government crackdown
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-11/world-s-top-ranked-crypto-venue-added-240-000-users-in-one-hour
(he also noted that Buffett does really know what he is talking about)
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On a previous page, I told 82 that cryptos can save the newspaper industry.
There is now a crypto called Po.et that is designed to do exactly this ...
https://vimeo.com/227814769
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Bearish on bitcoin (or cryptos in general) and bullish on blockchain is code for "I don't understand what I'm saying." Nouriel is certainly in this camp. It's like being bullish on the internal combustion engine and bearish on the automobile. One is the technology and the other is the app. They need each other to work.
That?s simply not true. Just as the combustion engine has managed to find other applications outside the automobile (planes, boats, electrical generation, etc.), the excitement about blockchain technology from crypto skeptics comes from the realization of its potential for other applications (healthcare records, rights management, etc.) It certainly doesn?t need cryptos to be a successful technology.
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That?s simply not true. Just as the combustion engine has managed to find other applications outside the automobile (planes, boats, electrical generation, etc.), the excitement about blockchain technology from crypto skeptics comes from the realization of its potential for other applications (healthcare records, rights management, etc.) It certainly doesn?t need cryptos to be a successful technology.
Any technology is meaningless without a killer app. Without one it just remains an interesting idea.
The killer app for the internet is the browser.
The killer app for the internal combustion engine is the car
The killer app for cellular is the mobile phone
The killer app for the blockchain is cryptocurrencies.
Medical records are a rounding error.
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Jamie Dimon seems to be backing off his statements that Bitcoin is a fraud.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/all-the-times-dimon-may-regret-bashing-bitcoin-in-one-chart-2018-01-09
(https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2018/01/09/Photos/ZH/MW-GB430_bitcoi_20180109142331_ZH.jpg?uuid=941f434e-f572-11e7-ad25-9c8e992d421e)
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Jamie Dimon seems to be backing off his statements that Bitcoin is a fraud.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/all-the-times-dimon-may-regret-bashing-bitcoin-in-one-chart-2018-01-09
(https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2018/01/09/Photos/ZH/MW-GB430_bitcoi_20180109142331_ZH.jpg?uuid=941f434e-f572-11e7-ad25-9c8e992d421e)
If cryptos "work" and become a store of value and a medium of exchange, the biggest loser is the largest bank in the country, JP Morgan. Cryptos compete with traditional banking and they are faster and cheaper.
So, if you need a "face" too attached to the loser because of the emergence of cryptos, Jamie Dimon is as good an example as you can find (Warren Buffett is a close second).
This is why he says this. And like taxi drivers that were so sacred of Uber that in an act of desperation they beat up Uber drivers and set their cars on fire, Dimon is essentially doing the same thing.
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Surprised it took this long for this story to be written ...
Is Bitcoin Racist? (Review of "The Politics of Bitcoin")
https://extranewsfeed.com/is-bitcoin-racist-2a548fc86e5f
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Poll: Some Investors Use a Credit Card to Buy Bitcoin and Then Carry Over the Balance
https://lendedu.com/blog/bitcoin-and-credit-cards/
LendEDU polled 672 active Bitcoin investors and discovered that many of them are purchasing the crypto currency in an incredibly risk manner: incurring credit card debt.
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Surprised it took this long for this story to be written ...
Is Bitcoin Racist? (Review of "The Politics of Bitcoin")
https://extranewsfeed.com/is-bitcoin-racist-2a548fc86e5f
Why are you not banned after starting a blatant political thread about the so-called president and his whores?
Now you are trying again in this thread?
What gives?
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Ehtereum is taking off, now above $1,400. The conversation is beginning that it might surpass bitcoin's market cap (Ethereum is now $137 billion, Bitcoin is $254 billion).
Why? Because the Ethereum network released a software upgrade on January 1 called Casper Testnet. It does away woth "miners" and uses "forgers" which requires a lot less comouting power and a lot less electricity.
https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/lightning-network-ethereum-eth-surges-casper-approaches/
Bitcoin is a "Proof-of-Work (PoW) network" that relies on miners to solve extremely complex cryptographic equations to verify that transactions are true. In exchange for their work, the mining nodes are rewarded with ?block rewards? in the form of crypto tokens.
However, mining equations have gotten to be so complex that the only way to mine Bitcoin profitably is to have a roomful of expensive equipment ? mom-and-pop miners have been priced out of the game. The Bitcoin mining industry is now dominated by large-scale, corporate operations; the block rewards are being distributed to a shrinking pool of high-powered miners. In other words, the Bitcoin network is becoming centralized.
Not only is the centralization of a blockchain a security liability, but centralized networks are also more susceptible to market manipulation. Crypto whales, who hold large amounts of currency, can dump them onto exchanges, causing quick, dramatic drops in price. Investors may then panic-sell their coins, driving the price lower still; the whale can then buy even more coins at a discount, and the cycle continues.
Ethereum uses a "Proof-of-Stake network" which does not rely on mining in order to confirm transactions and add them to the blockchain. Instead, PoS nodes perform ?forging? duties; they create new blocks as needed as transactions are processed.
Instead of distributing mining duties to the nodes with the most computing power, PoS distributes its own verification duties according to how much of the network?s cryptocurrency a node holds, as well as how long that node has held onto that cryptocurrency. Therefore, expensive mining equipment is not necessary to be a forger on a PoS network. There are no block rewards ? forgers collect transaction fees directly.
Because PoS incentivizes users to hold onto their coins, PoS promotes the stability of a blockchain network and the value of its corresponding cryptocurrency. In a PoW network, nodes do not actually need to own any of the cryptocurrency they are mining in order to perform their duties. PoS networks require that forgers hold some amount of the crypto they are earning.
PoS networks also have a much lower carbon footprint than PoW networks. Wired reported in early December of 2017 that a single Bitcoin transaction ?requires the same amount of energy used to power nine homes in the US for one day.? The Ethereum community and its conscientious leader, Vitalik Buterin, have seen the greener nature of PoS as additional incentive to make the switch.
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Earlier this week (above) we had stories about South Korea cracking down on cryptoexchanges and China cracking down on miners. Both stories were not exactly true. South Korea is looking a regulation, not ban, ditto China and miners. (also see the Ethereum post above, a solution to the power usage of mining might be here)
On the flipside, Venezuela is starting a cryptocurrency called the Petro and now Ukraine is thinking of getting in the game.
https://news.bitcoin.com/calls-for-legal-bitcoin-in-ukraine-as-natsbank-mulls-e-fiat/
Ukraine, now serious about crypto regulation, is setting up a special working group to oversee the completion of the necessary framework. Dedicated legislation has been making its way through parliament since October. The National Bank is considering plans to emit ?e-hryvnias?, while the justice minister says bitcoin is a fact and calls for its legalization.
Why is this important? Two reasons
1) The US is a laggard in cryptos. The third world and Asia are leading the charge into the area.
2) If the third world and Asia are adopting cryptos, it becomes impossible to ban them. Because if you ban them, using these examples, then you are telling the American financial system they can no longer do business is Venezuela and Ukraine (and whoever else follows them). If you ban a country's currency, whatever form they decide it to be, then you ban US commerce from happening in that country.
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Earlier this week (above) we had stories about South Korea cracking down on cryptoexchanges and China cracking down on miners. Both stories were not exactly true. South Korea is looking a regulation, not ban, ditto China and miners. (also see the Ethereum post above, a solution to the power usage of mining might be here)
On the flipside, Venezuela is starting a cryptocurrency called the Petro and now Ukraine is thinking of getting in the game.
https://news.bitcoin.com/calls-for-legal-bitcoin-in-ukraine-as-natsbank-mulls-e-fiat/
Ukraine, now serious about crypto regulation, is setting up a special working group to oversee the completion of the necessary framework. Dedicated legislation has been making its way through parliament since October. The National Bank is considering plans to emit ?e-hryvnias?, while the justice minister says bitcoin is a fact and calls for its legalization.
Why is this important? Two reasons
1) The US is a laggard in cryptos. The third world and Asia are leading the charge into the area.
2) If the third world and Asia are adopting cryptos, it becomes impossible to ban them. Because if you ban them, using these examples, then you are telling the American financial system they can no longer do business is Venezuela and Ukraine (and whoever else follows them). If you ban a country's currency, whatever form they decide it to be, then you ban US commerce from happening in that country.
Reasons are twofold. Americans and the rest of the world use the Dollar as a reserve currency so they will be slower to adopt. If Asia can exploit this and make BTC a reserve currency, it levels the playing field.
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Hards
There is nothing the Chinese would love more than leveling the playing field. Big time goal of the Chinese.
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Reasons are twofold. Americans and the rest of the world use the Dollar as a reserve currency so they will be slower to adopt. If Asia can exploit this and make BTC a reserve currency, it levels the playing field.
Not going to happen. Countries will not give up their control over currency. If anything, you will see nations create their own cryptos (like Venezuela and Ukraine) and we will see the US convert their currency over to a crypto...meaning the dollar stays and it is still the reserve currency, but the way transactions are handled will be shifted to a blockchain like model. That model will be altered substantially, to allow greater centralized control over the monetary system.
If the dollar is not the reserve currency (a crypto dollar or the conventional dollar), it will be because the UN creates their own global crypto currency that will be a universal reserve currency.
Currency manipulation by centralized governments is the bedrock of our economic system and the bedrock of capitalism. They will ensure it stays.
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Not going to happen. Countries will not give up their control over currency. If anything, you will see nations create their own cryptos (like Venezuela and Ukraine) and we will see the US convert their currency over to a crypto...meaning the dollar stays and it is still the reserve currency, but the way transactions are handled will be shifted to a blockchain like model. That model will be altered substantially, to allow greater centralized control over the monetary system.
If the dollar is not the reserve currency (a crypto dollar or the conventional dollar), it will be because the UN creates their own global crypto currency that will be a universal reserve currency.
Currency manipulation by centralized governments is the bedrock of our economic system and the bedrock of capitalism. They will ensure it stays.
I agree with you mostly. They'll try to ensure it stays, but my guess is that there will always be some sort of NGO crypto that exists... who knows what the legality of it will be, but it will certainly exist.
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Not going to happen. Countries will not give up their control over currency. If anything, you will see nations create their own cryptos (like Venezuela and Ukraine) and we will see the US convert their currency over to a crypto...meaning the dollar stays and it is still the reserve currency, but the way transactions are handled will be shifted to a blockchain like model. That model will be altered substantially, to allow greater centralized control over the monetary system.
If the dollar is not the reserve currency (a crypto dollar or the conventional dollar), it will be because the UN creates their own global crypto currency that will be a universal reserve currency.
Currency manipulation by centralized governments is the bedrock of our economic system and the bedrock of capitalism. They will ensure it stays.
The highlighted part, that the Fed and/or Treasury will create a digital dollar is often given as a reason for why bitcoin or other non-government backed cryptos will die. But, if you think about it, this can never happen.
While creating a Fed/Treasury-backed digital dollar, the Fed/Treasury would also have to offer a way to acquire and store them, like an electronic wallet. A Fed/Treasury-backed electronic wallet would end traditional banking and credit cards.
If a Government-backed electronic wallet did exist, the need for a checking account (to store money) and/or a third party to transfer money (i.e., a debit or credit card) goes away. This function would be done for free by the Government's electronic wallet putting them in direct competition with banks and credit card companies.
And since the Fed/Treasury has the best credit rating making them the safest financial institution, and would do it for no fee, banks would lose. If they charged a fee, they would be accused of supporting the banking system because the cost of running an electronic wallet is so low that they should charge no fee. This would be a political issue that they would not want to get into. I could see Liz Warren hammering them for not allowing the poor to have a free Fed electronic wallet on their mobile phone.
Could the Fed create a digital currency and not offer a way for the public to acquire and transfer it? In other words, force someone to use a bank. Again, I think this would be politically difficult.
A Government created digital currency, and ensuing electronic wallet would be embraced by lefties who want it to become a genuine alternative to banks, much like the Japanese postal savings system. Conservatives, led by the big banks, would rail against it as they see it as government competition with the private sector.
Given that a government-backed digital currency would inflame both the left and the right, I do not see the Fed/Treasury wanting to step in the middle and willing become the punching bag of both sides.
That said, the existing payment system really looks like an oligopoly that extracts massive rents from merchants (especially small ones) and it would be great to see someone try and disrupt it. As I wrote a few pages back, the ability to transfer money instantly, at no fee, and in micro-payments, is what the internet desperately needs. The financial system will never offer that. So they are ripe to be disrupted by something like a blockchain crypto.
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Not going to happen. Countries will not give up their control over currency. If anything, you will see nations create their own cryptos (like Venezuela and Ukraine) and we will see the US convert their currency over to a crypto...meaning the dollar stays and it is still the reserve currency, but the way transactions are handled will be shifted to a blockchain like model. That model will be altered substantially, to allow greater centralized control over the monetary system.
If the dollar is not the reserve currency (a crypto dollar or the conventional dollar), it will be because the UN creates their own global crypto currency that will be a universal reserve currency.
Currency manipulation by centralized governments is the bedrock of our economic system and the bedrock of capitalism. They will ensure it stays.
See my post above that with any digital or cryptocurrency comes an electronic wallet*** If these 10 countries pull this off, with an electronic wallet, it could force a "game changer" on everyone else.
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*** You cannot have a crypto without an electronic wallet. That is like issuing a Government-backed currency and then outlawing banks. The electronic wallet serves the same purpose as banks do today. But the electronic wallet does it faster and far more efficiently making the current set-up of banks obsolete. This is why people like Jamie Dimon, Larry Fink (BlackRock CEO) and Warren Buffett rip cryptos. It threatens their empires and wealth as it makes them obsolete. (Again think of them as owners of taxi companies and cryptos as ride-sharing).
Venezuela Urges 10 Other Countries to Adopt Its Oil-Backed Cryptocurrency
https://news.bitcoin.com/venezuela-urges-10-other-countries-adopt-oil-backed-cryptocurrency/
Maduro held a meeting of the Bolivarian Alliance for the Peoples of Our America ? Treaty of Commerce of the Peoples (Alba ? TCP) on Friday. Alba consists of Antigua and Barbuda, Bolivia, Cuba, Dominica, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Grenada, and Venezuela.
During the meeting, ?Maduro called on the countries of the Alba to assume together the creation of the cryptocurrency, the petro,? Prensa Latina reported.
?I call on us to assume the petro as an integration currency of our peoples,? Efecto Cocuyo quoted him, adding that it is ?imperative? to take the proposal with ?maximum priority.?
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The highlighted part, that the Fed and/or Treasury will create a digital dollar is often given as a reason for why bitcoin or other non-government backed cryptos will die. But, if you think about it, this can never happen.
While creating a Fed/Treasury-backed digital dollar, the Fed/Treasury would also have to offer a way to acquire and store them, like an electronic wallet. A Fed/Treasury-backed electronic wallet would end traditional banking and credit cards.
If a Government-backed electronic wallet did exist, the need for a checking account (to store money) and/or a third party to transfer money (i.e., a debit or credit card) goes away. This function would be done for free by the Government's electronic wallet putting them in direct competition with banks and credit card companies.
And since the Fed/Treasury has the best credit rating making them the safest financial institution, and would do it for no fee, banks would lose. If they charged a fee, they would be accused of supporting the banking system because the cost of running an electronic wallet is so low that they should charge no fee. This would be a political issue that they would not want to get into. I could see Liz Warren hammering them for not allowing the poor to have a free Fed electronic wallet on their mobile phone.
Could the Fed create a digital currency and not offer a way for the public to acquire and transfer it? In other words, force someone to use a bank. Again, I think this would be politically difficult.
A Government created digital currency, and ensuing electronic wallet would be embraced by lefties who want it to become a genuine alternative to banks, much like the Japanese postal savings system. Conservatives, led by the big banks, would rail against it as they see it as government competition with the private sector.
Given that a government-backed digital currency would inflame both the left and the right, I do not see the Fed/Treasury wanting to step in the middle and willing become the punching bag of both sides.
That said, the existing payment system really looks like an oligopoly that extracts massive rents from merchants (especially small ones) and it would be great to see someone try and disrupt it. As I wrote a few pages back, the ability to transfer money instantly, at no fee, and in micro-payments, is what the internet desperately needs. The financial system will never offer that. So they are ripe to be disrupted by something like a blockchain crypto.
Great post
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I continue to be happen collecting dividends. For example, my basis in AAPL is $2 per share and I am getting $2.52 in dividends per share. Doesn't require any effort and the money comes in like clock work.
I am happy to let others take the risk on ventures like Bitcoin etc. When the government takes tax payments in bitcoin then life will change . Until then US $ cash is king.
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Hards
There is nothing the Chinese would love more than leveling the playing field. Big time goal of the Chinese.
Example, the news that the Chinese are slowing/stopping their purchase of US treasury bonds.
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Example, the news that the Chinese are slowing/stopping their purchase of US treasury bonds.
That is fake news
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-usa-debt/china-says-diversifying-fx-reserves-warns-report-on-u-s-bonds-may-be-fake-idUSKBN1F00CC
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For anyone into coding in R or Python, here are a couple of demonstrations of 'baby block chains'
R:
https://correlaid.org/blog/posts/blockchain-explained
Python:
https://medium.com/crypto-currently/lets-build-the-tiniest-blockchain-e70965a248b
(even skipping the coding, the articles are helpful for understanding the basics of the mechanics of blockchain technology)
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That is fake news
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-usa-debt/china-says-diversifying-fx-reserves-warns-report-on-u-s-bonds-may-be-fake-idUSKBN1F00CC
You aren't using the phrase correctly. The article doesn't do anything to say it isn't happening, simply spinning the reasons that it is happening ("rebalancing"). Could be something could be nothing, but it's not definitely nothing.
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Hope none of you guys invested in Bitconnect :-\ :-\
https://bitcoinist.com/bitconnect-shuts-amid-crypto-crash/
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You aren't using the phrase correctly. The article doesn't do anything to say it isn't happening, simply spinning the reasons that it is happening ("rebalancing"). Could be something could be nothing, but it's not definitely nothing.
Fake News doesn't mean what is means anymore, apparently. A recent survey/poll shows that 42% of a certain party says something is Fake News if it paints that party in a negative light even if they agree it is 100% true.
Apparently Fake News now means "news I don't like".
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Bitcoin plunges below $10K
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3323203-bitcoin-plunges-10k
Jan. 17, 2018 8:38 AM ET|By: Stephen Alpher, SA News Editor
The price has recovered to $10.2K at the moment, but Bitcoin earlier this morning was back in four-figure territory as the broad selloff in cryptos deepens.
Most in traditional media and asset management are congratulating themselves for spotting and avoiding a bubble of massive proportions, but to cryptocurrency veterans, this plunge is nothing out of the ordinary. Who's correct remains in the cards.
Ethereum - which soared to news highs this year even as Bitcoin was languishing - has been hit particularly hard this week. It's down 16% today to $878, and about 40% since topping $1,400 over the weekend.
Ripple is down another 10% to $1.04, now off more than 70% in the past 12 days.
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Sounds a taxi driver in the early days of Uber.
Visa CEO: Bitcoin is Not a Payment System
https://news.bitcoin.com/visa-ceo-bitcoin-not-payment-system/
Visa, the world’s largest credit card company, is widely regarded as being hostile to Bitcoin. It would seem intuitive that a traditional financial provider should look unkindly on anything that threatens its hegemony. Publicly, though, the company has had very little to say about Bitcoin, preferring to focus on matters within its own domain. In a CNBC interview on Wednesday, the corporation’s CEO broke his silence, opining – predictably – that Bitcoin is not a payments system.
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Bitcoin plunges below $10K
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3323203-bitcoin-plunges-10k
Jan. 17, 2018 8:38 AM ET|By: Stephen Alpher, SA News Editor
The price has recovered to $10.2K at the moment, but Bitcoin earlier this morning was back in four-figure territory as the broad selloff in cryptos deepens.
Most in traditional media and asset management are congratulating themselves for spotting and avoiding a bubble of massive proportions, but to cryptocurrency veterans, this plunge is nothing out of the ordinary. Who's correct remains in the cards.
Ethereum - which soared to news highs this year even as Bitcoin was languishing - has been hit particularly hard this week. It's down 16% today to $878, and about 40% since topping $1,400 over the weekend.
Ripple is down another 10% to $1.04, now off more than 70% in the past 12 days.
Just to be clear, we will see articles like this every time there is a drop in bitcoin. You will see these because they get clicks. These type of articles get clicks because it reaffirms their belief (incorrectly) that bitcoin is:
1. a ponzi scheme
2. made up internet money
3. any other number of foolish myths.
They'll click it and show their friends, and say, "I told you so!" This is the media culture we now live in.
When bitcoin goes up, the media will call it a bubble, and they will write stories about it and people will share it and call it a bubble.
Eventually, when BTC becomes adopted and accepted as a common currency (I had the option to use it on expedia.com yesterday) people will brag to their friends that they bought some back in the late 2010's "just in case".
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Just to be clear, we will see articles like this every time there is a drop in bitcoin. You will see these because they get clicks. These type of articles get clicks because it reaffirms their belief (incorrectly) that bitcoin is:
1. a ponzi scheme
2. made up internet money
3. any other number of foolish myths.
They'll click it and show their friends, and say, "I told you so!" This is the media culture we now live in.
When bitcoin goes up, the media will call it a bubble, and they will write stories about it and people will share it and call it a bubble.
Eventually, when BTC becomes adopted and accepted as a common currency (I had the option to use it on expedia.com yesterday) people will brag to their friends that they bought some back in the late 2010's "just in case".
Completly agree
And regarding the last point (and the post above from the chairman of VISA bashing bitcoin) ...
What the internet is missing is micropayments. It is a product that is desperately needed and the current credit card/banking system cannot provide it. They are either too slow, too bureaucratic, too expensive or all three. Cryptos can solve this are would be filling a huge need (note I say "crypto" acknowledging it might not be bitcoin or ethereum but it will be something).
To repeat, cryptos, and what they can offer is a product that is needed in a big way. This is not a Field of Dreams "build it and they will come" made up a product that no one really wants. You want to get rid of your stupid monthly fees instead preferring a pay as you go in micro amounts (a penny a minute to stream, 5 cents to read an article, etc.). The banking system simply cannot evolve to offer this so here comes a disruptor to offer it and change traditional banking and credit card business models forever. (note I said "change" and not "eliminate." Taxis have not gone away but their business model today bears little relation to their business model seven years ago, right before Uber was invented.)
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Completly agree
And regarding the last point (and the post above from the chairman of VISA bashing bitcoin) ...
What the internet is missing is micropayments. It is a product that is desperately needed and the current credit card/banking system cannot provide it. They are either too slow, too bureaucratic, too expensive or all three. Cryptos can solve this are would be filling a huge need (note I say "crypto" acknowledging it might not be bitcoin or ethereum but it will be something).
To repeat, cryptos, and what they can offer is a product that is needed in a big way. This is not a Field of Dreams "build it and they will come" made up a product that no one really wants. You want to get rid of your stupid monthly fees instead preferring a pay as you go in micro amounts (a penny a minute to stream, 5 cents to read an article, etc.). The banking system simply cannot evolve to offer this so here comes a disruptor to offer it and change traditional banking and credit card business models forever. (note I said "change" and not "eliminate." Taxis have not gone away but their business model today bears little relation to their business model seven years ago, right before Uber was invented.)
With that said, how do you decouple the need for micropayments (or any low-cost, universal method of value transfer) from the crypto structure? In other words... why the hell do you have to mine for cryptos? Why can't they simply be introduced, directly pegged to an existing fiat currency or value store - at least initially - (instead of being indirectly pegged to the cost of electricity), and distributed to anyone who wants to buy?
The biggest myth about Bitcoin: there's no cost to transfer or transact BTC. In theory, that may be the case, but look at the US Dollar... how many ways are there to be charged today simply to transfer cash from one person to the next? Credit card fees, ATM fees, bank maintenance fees, broker fees, check printing costs, money order/moneygram/Western Union fees, Coinstar, gift card monthly fees, etc. It's already begun with BTC... the transactional fees being paid to the exchanges are in some cases (e.g. limit orders) ridiculous.
I am still failing to see where BTC either fills a void or provides a more cost-efficient solution to an existing need.
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With that said, how do you decouple the need for micropayments (or any low-cost, universal method of value transfer) from the crypto structure? In other words... why the hell do you have to mine for cryptos? Why can't they simply be introduced, directly pegged to an existing fiat currency or value store - at least initially - (instead of being indirectly pegged to the cost of electricity), and distributed to anyone who wants to buy?
This already occurs. Just not using BTC. There are plenty of alt-coins that you don't need to mine. Technology evolves. Look into Request Network (REQ) or Raiblocks (XRB).
The biggest myth about Bitcoin: there's no cost to transfer or transact BTC. In theory, that may be the case, but look at the US Dollar... how many ways are there to be charged today simply to transfer cash from one person to the next? Credit card fees, ATM fees, bank maintenance fees, broker fees, check printing costs, money order/moneygram/Western Union fees, Coinstar, gift card monthly fees, etc. It's already begun with BTC... the transactional fees being paid to the exchanges are in some cases (e.g. limit orders) ridiculous.
I am still failing to see where BTC either fills a void or provides a more cost-efficient solution to an existing need.
This confusion stems from a lack of knowledge about BTC. There is a transaction fee on coinbase... and it is extremely HIGH. So use the free market to look elsewhere.
The main void that BTC fills is security. There are also extremely low fees. FAR cheaper than using a credit card.
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Eventually, when BTC becomes adopted and accepted as a common currency (I had the option to use it on expedia.com yesterday) people will brag to their friends that they bought some back in the late 2010's "just in case".
Not saying you are wrong, but I heard similar statements about beanie babies, and how they would brag to their friends about how they invested in them.
Suggesting that this is a sure thing/guarantee is simply a gross overstatement.
This confusion stems from a lack of knowledge about BTC. There is a transaction fee on coinbase... and it is extremely HIGH. So use the free market to look elsewhere.
As BTC gains popularity, hacking of exchanges and wallets will increase, requiring increasing degrees of security, which will increase the base cost of dealing in BTC.
Suggesting that the free market will "save" people from high transaction fees is a bit absurd. When/If the market shifts to BTC, companies will corner the market on transactions and increase the price of a transaction until there is little (from cost to the consumer) perspective difference between a credit card transaction and a BTC transaction.
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Sounds a taxi driver in the early days of Uber.
Visa CEO: Bitcoin is Not a Payment System
https://news.bitcoin.com/visa-ceo-bitcoin-not-payment-system/
Visa, the world’s largest credit card company, is widely regarded as being hostile to Bitcoin. It would seem intuitive that a traditional financial provider should look unkindly on anything that threatens its hegemony. Publicly, though, the company has had very little to say about Bitcoin, preferring to focus on matters within its own domain. In a CNBC interview on Wednesday, the corporation’s CEO broke his silence, opining – predictably – that Bitcoin is not a payments system.
What's the value of using Bitcoin as a payment system?
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Just to be clear, we will see articles like this every time there is a drop in bitcoin. You will see these because they get clicks.
They get clicks because people are interested in them. There SHOULD be articles whenever any publicly traded entity goes up or down 20% in price. I'd be disappointed in the financial media if they didn't do articles like these.
But yes, coverage of bitcoin does go to the extremes.
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They get clicks because people are interested in them. There SHOULD be articles whenever any publicly traded entity goes up or down 20% in price. I'd be disappointed in the financial media if they didn't do articles like these.
But yes, coverage of bitcoin does go to the extremes.
Up over 20% in the last 24 hours. :P
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Not saying you are wrong, but I heard similar statements about beanie babies, and how they would brag to their friends about how they invested in them.
Suggesting that this is a sure thing/guarantee is simply a gross overstatement.
Sounds an awful lot like you're saying I'm wrong. This is absolutely a sure thing, technology-wise.
As BTC gains popularity, hacking of exchanges and wallets will increase, requiring increasing degrees of security, which will increase the base cost of dealing in BTC.
Suggesting that the free market will "save" people from high transaction fees is a bit absurd. When/If the market shifts to BTC, companies will corner the market on transactions and increase the price of a transaction until there is little (from cost to the consumer) perspective difference between a credit card transaction and a BTC transaction.
Totally disagree. Seems like you need to better understand the technology. Companies can't increase the price of a transaction.
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This already occurs. Just not using BTC. There are plenty of alt-coins that you don't need to mine. Technology evolves. Look into Request Network (REQ) or Raiblocks (XRB).
This confusion stems from a lack of knowledge about BTC. There is a transaction fee on coinbase... and it is extremely HIGH. So use the free market to look elsewhere.
The main void that BTC fills is security. There are also extremely low fees. FAR cheaper than using a credit card.
The cost of a BTC transaction - in terms of the cost of the electricity used - does not break even with credit card fees until around $900-1,000. Granted, that's at US average prices, but even if you could get electricity at a fraction of that cost overseas, BTC will never be cheaper than credit cards for everyday spending, i.e. purchases under $100.
How does BTC fill a security void... Basis security? I feel pretty secure about the USD, I'm sure there are plenty of Brits feeling pretty secure about GBP, etc. despite not being backed by anything of value (except the faith and credit of the respective governments). Physical security? My cash is in FDIC-insured accounts. Value security? I don't know that anything whose chart looks like every Six Flags in the world mashed together could be considered to have any element of value security to it.
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What's the value of using Bitcoin as a payment system?
Simply put, security, low transaction fees, and anonymity.
decentralization of money easily transferable between people.
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The cost of a BTC transaction - in terms of the cost of the electricity used - does not break even with credit card fees until around $900-1,000. Granted, that's at US average prices, but even if you could get electricity at a fraction of that cost overseas, BTC will never be cheaper than credit cards for everyday spending, i.e. purchases under $100.
How does BTC fill a security void... Basis security? I feel pretty secure about the USD, I'm sure there are plenty of Brits feeling pretty secure about GBP, etc. despite not being backed by anything of value (except the faith and credit of the respective governments). Physical security? My cash is in FDIC-insured accounts. Value security? I don't know that anything whose chart looks like every Six Flags in the world mashed together could be considered to have any element of value security to it.
Bud, I'm not going to bust out a curriculum and run through everything that blockchain has to offer in security. I don't have that sort of time, and the information is readily available for anyone who chooses to learn about it. Let me direct you to a few terms to research if you are interested. SegWit, and Lightning Network. Technology evolves, and people are working towards solving the problems with BTC that you are laying out.
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Sounds an awful lot like you're saying I'm wrong. This is absolutely a sure thing, technology-wise.
Totally disagree. Seems like you need to better understand the technology. Companies can't increase the price of a transaction.
By technology, do you mean Blockchain is a sure thing? Because there I would agree. If you mean cryptos, then I don't. They are not necessarily the same thing.
And, Companies can and will control transactions. It is largely uncontrolled, and unregulated now, because it isn't a major player. When it does become more common, and widely used, it will be regulated, controlled, and prices determined by major companies. That is how the economy works. If something has value, they will ensure that they control the market.
As the technology evolves (as it must), they will reign in the "free/unregulated" aspect of it.
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The only thing that keeps me from saying a crypto will provide the micropayment that is necessary is the inherent volatility of the crypto. It may work if something like Bitcoin becomes a medium of exchange where I can simply say Company A here is my 5 cents for the article and my 5 cents is converted to bitcoin transferred to Company A who can then turn it back into USD without cost/effort. But until it does that, the inherent volatility of the cryptos prevent it from being a standard transactional currency. John Q Public is not going to accept paying 0.5 bitcoin for Netflix today and 1.7 bitcoin for Netflix tomorrow.*
*all of this is a gross simplification but even the fact that you have to simplify it so much represents why it will be a slow adoption as a medium of exchange.
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Simply put, security, low transaction fees, and anonymity.
decentralization of money easily transferable between people.
Does Bitcoin offer better security and lower transaction fees than Visa? Do consumers really care that much about anonymity?
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Does Bitcoin offer better security and lower transaction fees than Visa? Do consumers really care that much about anonymity?
Blockchain offers better security and less friction for transactions (anonymity really #nomatta to the general pop). The catch is what entity is using blockchain to deliver it's transactional service and what fees they tack on. Once some of the large transaction companies (Mastercard, Visa, US Bank, etc) pull their heads out of the neither regions they can easily compete with the cryptos as a medium of micro-transactions.
This stuff ain't rocket science but it's a question of whether the major financial companies want to be market makers or let the cryptos create the market and then swoop in and squeeze them out.
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Blockchain offers better security and less friction for transactions (anonymity really #nomatta to the general pop). The catch is what entity is using blockchain to deliver it's transactional service and what fees they tack on. Once some of the large transaction companies (Mastercard, Visa, US Bank, etc) pull their heads out of the neither regions they can easily compete with the cryptos as a medium of micro-transactions.
This stuff ain't rocket science but it's a question of whether the major financial companies want to be market makers or let the cryptos create the market and then swoop in and squeeze them out.
Follow on, I would expect Amazon and Google to provide a blockchain backed microtransaction medium within the next two years.
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With that said, how do you decouple the need for micropayments (or any low-cost, universal method of value transfer) from the crypto structure? In other words... why the hell do you have to mine for cryptos? Why can't they simply be introduced, directly pegged to an existing fiat currency or value store - at least initially - (instead of being indirectly pegged to the cost of electricity), and distributed to anyone who wants to buy?
The biggest myth about Bitcoin: there's no cost to transfer or transact BTC. In theory, that may be the case, but look at the US Dollar... how many ways are there to be charged today simply to transfer cash from one person to the next? Credit card fees, ATM fees, bank maintenance fees, broker fees, check printing costs, money order/moneygram/Western Union fees, Coinstar, gift card monthly fees, etc. It's already begun with BTC... the transactional fees being paid to the exchanges are in some cases (e.g. limit orders) ridiculous.
I am still failing to see where BTC either fills a void or provides a more cost-efficient solution to an existing need.
If the existing banking system could provide micropayments, it would have been introduced a long time ago (because of the massive need for it). The reason the current banking system has not it is it too bureaucratic and unwieldy.
If Jame Dimon REALLY wanted to bury bitcoin and every other crypto, just announce that JP Morgan has a way to send micropayments. You can now send three cents to someone and JPM will charge, say, 0.05 of a penny for the transfer.
Dimon cannot say this because the current banking payment/money transfer system cannot be changed to allow it. It would need to be completely blown up and start all over (most likely using the blockchain) at a massive cost.
So instead of pounding on the Fed and Treasury to restructure the payment system to allow it (and demand the government pay for it) he and Buffett just call bitcoin a fraud and disparage anyone that has anything nice to say about it.
Like I said before, they are like taxicab owners talking about Uber right after it started. Will they wind up the same way? I think they is a real risk unless they "get it" and start competing by creating a micropayment structure.
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This Is How Chinese Bitcoin Buyers Are Getting Around The Government Ban
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-19/how-chinese-bitcoin-buyers-are-getting-around-government-ban
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The cost of a BTC transaction - in terms of the cost of the electricity used - does not break even with credit card fees until around $900-1,000. Granted, that's at US average prices, but even if you could get electricity at a fraction of that cost overseas, BTC will never be cheaper than credit cards for everyday spending, i.e. purchases under $100.
How does BTC fill a security void... Basis security? I feel pretty secure about the USD, I'm sure there are plenty of Brits feeling pretty secure about GBP, etc. despite not being backed by anything of value (except the faith and credit of the respective governments). Physical security? My cash is in FDIC-insured accounts. Value security? I don't know that anything whose chart looks like every Six Flags in the world mashed together could be considered to have any element of value security to it.
This is true if you believe these systems will never change. But they are changing in a revolutionary way. Bitcoin has had several forks (change in its programming), has the lighting network coming. Ehtereum has the Caspter Testnet network now (since Jan 1). These changes serve to make the transactions far more efficient. Raiblocks, Ripple KuCoin are operating without miners. Ehtereum network is so different that they call their miners “forgers.”
So what you wrote is correct, and it will be an ancient history trivia question in a few months given how radically and how quickly these networks change.
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Not saying you are wrong, but I heard similar statements about beanie babies, and how they would brag to their friends about how they invested in them.
Suggesting that this is a sure thing/guarantee is simply a gross overstatement.
As BTC gains popularity, hacking of exchanges and wallets will increase, requiring increasing degrees of security, which will increase the base cost of dealing in BTC.
Suggesting that the free market will "save" people from high transaction fees is a bit absurd. When/If the market shifts to BTC, companies will corner the market on transactions and increase the price of a transaction until there is little (from cost to the consumer) perspective difference between a credit card transaction and a BTC transaction.
Two things. Cryptos are filling a critically important economic need. They are challenging the basic function of banking (transferring money) and offering cheaper, safer and more efficient way to move money from one to another. This includes micro-payment which is what the internet needs and the banks cannot provide. So cryptos are a disruptive force to banks.
Beanie Babies was an aspirational product like art. And like art, it served no economic purpose. Invoking this analogy suggests you still don’t understand the blockchain and cryptos critical purpose.
And your fear of hacking, it is exactly the opposite. The centralized systems we have now are unsafe. How many hacks of personal information have we had in the last few years ... maybe every American in the United States at least once.
What is far safer is a decentralized system like the blockchain. Sure system on top of the blockchain like exchanges can and will get hacked. But not the blockchain itself.
When Target credit cards were hacked, did you think we should end credit cards? So why do you think every hack of crypto exchange means the entire system is faulty and at risk. This is the argument of the skeptic that is going to let this transformational technology pass them by.
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Two things. Cryptos are filling a critically important economic need. They are challenging the basic function of banking (transferring money) and offering cheaper, safer and more efficient way to move money from one to another. This includes micro-payment which is what the internet needs and the banks cannot provide. So cryptos are a disruptive force to banks.
Beanie Babies was an aspirational product like art. And like art, it served no economic purpose. Invoking this analogy suggests you still don’t understand the blockchain and cryptos critical purpose.
And your fear of hacking, it is exactly the opposite. The centralized systems we have now are unsafe. How many hacks of personal information have we had in the last few years ... maybe every American in the United States at least once.
What is far safer is a decentralized system like the blockchain. Sure system on top of the blockchain like exchanges can and will get hacked. But not the blockchain itself.
When Target credit cards were hacked, did you think we should end credit cards? So why do you think every hack of crypto exchange means the entire system is faulty and at risk. This is the argument of the skeptic that is going to let this transformational technology pass them by.
None of the cryptos are fullfilling a critical need yet. They have the capacity to fill a need, but I would not consider it a critical need.
On the hacking side, I'm not saying it is more at risk; I'm saying it has comparable risk. Right now, because it is not as big of a network, and it is not a major player in transactions, the entities involved in cryptos have not had to worry about as many aggressive attacks and similarly, more aggressive and expensive protection.
As it gains market share they will have to worry about all that, and they will have to worry about regulations, and customer service, and all the other elements that are intrinsic to a large commercial enterprise. That will lead to drastically rising costs for crypto based companies, making their low cost transactions, no longer low cost.
Right now credit cards conduct over 30 billion transactions a year, for a combined value of $3.2T; ACH payments are 23.5 billion transactions, for a combined value of $16.3T.
Bitcoin does ~100 million transactions a day, the majority in trading/speculation. They aren't even being used in micropayments which you say is a critical need, as it is not remotely profitable. The lightning network is expected to make things better, but many experts think it will still be exceedingly unprofitable to use the lightning network in a profitable manner for micropayments. And that is with low market caps, which allow them to avoid costs associated with security and regulations.
Right now most of the existing cryptos will not ever be feasible for micro-payments, which makes none of them a sure thing. Blockchain technology is a game changer, but not cryptos. And it is possible that a quantum computer would be available by the time Blockchain based micropayments is feasible, which nullifies Blockchain technology security.
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Last week KFC Canada briefly accepted Bitcoin as payment for $20 bucket meals – demand was exceptional!
https://aimprogramblog.blogspot.com/2018/01/last-week-kfc-canada-briefly-accepted.html?m=1
KFC Canada, the fast-food retailer, offered to accept Bitcoins as payment for a $20 meal in a bucket last Thursday, only for a limited time. For a paltry 0.001156 bitcoin you got fried chicken - and sides. Sound good? Well, the thought of using your bitcoin right now to buy chicken is moot - since the Bitcoin Bucket sold out on KFC's website in less than 30 minutes last Friday.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-S8C96kcGVfQ/WmN_3t7v_kI/AAAAAAAAgWA/QGf4G0B7r_U4Nn9kgxLMmSW9_QhLvXi7gCLcBGAs/s1600/kfc%2BBitcoin_Bucket-920x470.jpg)
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Last week KFC Canada briefly accepted Bitcoin as payment for $20 bucket meals – demand was exceptional!
https://aimprogramblog.blogspot.com/2018/01/last-week-kfc-canada-briefly-accepted.html?m=1
KFC Canada, the fast-food retailer, offered to accept Bitcoins as payment for a $20 meal in a bucket last Thursday, only for a limited time. For a paltry 0.001156 bitcoin you got fried chicken - and sides. Sound good? Well, the thought of using your bitcoin right now to buy chicken is moot - since the Bitcoin Bucket sold out on KFC's website in less than 30 minutes last Friday.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-S8C96kcGVfQ/WmN_3t7v_kI/AAAAAAAAgWA/QGf4G0B7r_U4Nn9kgxLMmSW9_QhLvXi7gCLcBGAs/s1600/kfc%2BBitcoin_Bucket-920x470.jpg)
You do realize that this is a PR student, and likely only involved 1 or 2 actual buckets right? Easy to sell out that way. It is not a good sign, when a currency being used to actually purchase something is a hilarious PR stunt. KFC is known for its absurd and hilarious PR stunt offers.
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You do realize that this is a PR student, and likely only involved 1 or 2 actual buckets right? Easy to sell out that way. It is not a good sign, when a currency being used to actually purchase something is a hilarious PR stunt. KFC is known for its absurd and hilarious PR stunt offers.
Why exactly is this not a good sign?
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Why exactly is this not a good sign?
His seemed to imply that this was a good sign in that you can even use it to buy KFC. But it was a joke, meant to be an absurdity. It was meant to invoke the idea of how absurd it is to sell KFC for bitcoin.
When is considered absurd, and hilarious, that you could purchase an every day item with a currency, it is not a particularly good take home message for the stability and practicality of your currency.
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His seemed to imply that this was a good sign in that you can even use it to buy KFC. But it was a joke, meant to be an absurdity. It was meant to invoke the idea of how absurd it is to sell KFC for bitcoin.
When is considered absurd, and hilarious, that you could purchase an every day item with a currency, it is not a particularly good take home message for the stability and practicality of your currency.
I did not imply anything, I posted the story with no comment.
The rest is a commentary about your biases.
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Forget ... your skepticism put you solidly in the Wall Street camp. If I did not know better, I would think you're a bankster.
Is This the End of Money?
Geoffrey Garrett
Dean at The Wharton School
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/end-money-geoffrey-garrett/
I spent the first week of the New Year with a great group of Wharton undergraduates visiting many of our tremendous alumni in the San Francisco Bay Area. To say it felt very different from the East Coast is an understatement. And I am not talking about missing the “bomb cyclone,” which we did.
I am talking about blockchain/bitcoin/cryptocurrencies, which are much more than a speculative Chinese-cum-millennial obsession.
Whereas most people on Wall Street remain skeptical, playing a wait-and-see game, Silicon Valley is all in. Literally every meeting I participated in, from the biggest tech companies to the smallest startups, was rich with enthusiastic and creative crypto conversations.
I used to think “fintech” meant the end of physical cash — replaced by mobile payments platforms owned by big multinational firms and currently led by China, in established currencies regulated by national governments and international agreements.
I now wonder whether the ultimate fusion of technology and finance will mean “the end of money,” at least as we have known it for the last millennium. It’s no longer sci-fi to imagine the replacement of dollars and other “fiat money” with open sourced, radically decentralized, deeply encrypted and self-regulating transactions in digital units of exchange that are “mined” rather issued by central banks.
A true fintech revolution.
I have to admit I went west very much in the Jamie Dimon mindset. The JPMorgan CEO and voice of Wall Street since the financial crisis famously dismissed bitcoin’s virtual rise in 2017: “I could care less about bitcoin.” Strip out his typically gruff rhetorical flourishes, and Dimon was making 2 fundamental points.
Dimon’s first point was that “blockchain” — a globally distributed ledger of financial transactions made secure by advanced cryptography and competition among “miners” (computers competing to execute and record transactions, and being compensated for doing so) — has massive upside. But to become central to mainstream commerce, blockchain will have to lose its unregulated open source roots, be managed by a big multinational conglomerate (think some combination of Visa/Mastercard transactions and SWIFT international transfers), and fall under the clear jurisdictions of national governments and international agreements.
His second point was that the transactions that blockchain records will ultimately be in “cryptodollars”, or cryptoeuros, cryptoyuan, etc. — not bitcoin, ethereum, or any other “non-fiat,” purely “digital” currency that is not issued by central banks. This is because there is literally no underlying value to a bitcoin (“worse than tulips,” to use the oft-cited example of the Dutch “tulip bubble” in the 17th century). In contrast, there is underlying value to a dollar — guaranteed by the US Federal Reserve tied to the strength of the American economy.
The more I talked with people in the Valley, the less convinced I became of these two points.
This is very disconcerting to people like me, steeped in more than 200 years of macroeconomic thought. All the giants (Adam Smith, David Ricardo, John Maynard Keynes, Milton Friedman, Paul Samuelson, and others) not only assumed the centrality of currencies as we have known them. They also valorized money as literally the foundation of a well-functioning economy — both a unit of exchange and a store of value.
In Silicon Valley, there is a healthy disregard for all things Washington, government, and regulation — and of course for the status quo. It’s no surprise there seem to be many more bitcoin believers on the West Coast.
They ask powerful rhetorical questions. Don’t governments and central banks always face the temptation of printing more money? Are you really so happy with the fees credit cards and banks charge? Wouldn’t it reduce our worries about hacking and cyber security if financial transactions were better encrypted and recorded on millions of computers rather than a handful? Isn’t the genius of bitcoin that there is a finite limit to how many can be produced (by the “halving” algorithm at the center of bitcoin mining)?
I tend to get lost as soon as the blockchain/bitcoin evangelists get into the real data science behind these technologies, but I do think there is real merit to their rhetorical questions. And I increasingly sense I am not alone.
Consider these simple facts. We now can trade bitcoin futures on a crusty old financial exchange. There is lots of VC money pouring into crypto. Asset managers are starting to think about cryptocurrency indexes as a great diversification strategy, because bitcoin risk is likely uncorrelated with any “regular” economic risk. All are powerful indicators that the leading edge of “conventional” finance is taking very seriously the prospects for very radical financial innovation.
Finance meets technology, harnessing the combined power of Wall Street and Silicon Valley. Not only the end of cash, but also the end of money. That is the prospect and potential of fintech. What will happen and when it will happen is impossible to predict — as is invariably the case with the most radical innovations. But there is little doubt that an enormous amount of capital, energy and creativity will pour into cryptocurrencies in the coming months and years — even if bitcoin proves the biggest bubble since tulips.
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Bill Harris, former CEO of Intuit and Paypal, calls bitcoin a "colossal pump-and-dump scheme, the likes of which the world has never seen." He goes on to say it is lame as a means of payment, has extreme volatility that makes it a poor store of value, and that there's no actual intrinsic value. About the only thing bitcoin is good for, he says, is criminal activity.
https://www.recode.net/2018/4/24/17275202/bitcoin-scam-cryptocurrency-mining-pump-dump-fraud-ico-value
He might not be the most objective observer, but his comments are still interesting.
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Bill Harris, former CEO of Intuit and Paypal, calls bitcoin a "colossal pump-and-dump scheme, the likes of which the world has never seen." He goes on to say it is lame as a means of payment, has extreme volatility that makes it a poor store of value, and that there's no actual intrinsic value. About the only thing bitcoin is good for, he says, is criminal activity.
https://www.recode.net/2018/4/24/17275202/bitcoin-scam-cryptocurrency-mining-pump-dump-fraud-ico-value
He might not be the most objective observer, but his comments are still interesting.
Yeah, he is extremely biased. Paypal is a direct competition.
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Yeah, he is extremely biased. Paypal is a direct competition.
True, but he no longer is at Paypal. (Though he still probably owns stock.)
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Thought it’s about time that this thread got revived.
Anyone still afraid of missing out on the Bitcoin craze?
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Thought it’s about time that this thread got revived.
Anyone still afraid of missing out on the Bitcoin craze?
Craze? You act like this is done.
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Paypal and other payment processors are going to be deeply involved in crypto.
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bovada keeps trying to persuade it's players to switch to a bitcoin account claiming it's faster and you can ask for payouts more often than the one every 3 months i believe it is for u.s. currency. last month i cashed out on $1200 and it took about 2 weeks to get the check. here is the message they sent me, among others.
My name is Jed and I’m contacting you from Bovada’s Bitcoin Advisory department. At your convenience, give me a call at 1-888-233-5936, I'm available Saturday to Tuesday, 3p to 11p ET, and ask to be transferred to Jed at extension number 7332.
We're contacting you to congratulate you on your winnings and to inform you that we’re currently expediting withdrawals using the Bitcoin method for the first time. There are many benefits to using this option, such as:
• It’s Free.
• It’s Quick, Easy and convenient.
• It’s Secure.
• Amount and frequency – You can request a maximum of $9,500 per increment every 3 days.
As your personal Bitcoin Advisor, I’ll guide you through the simple steps of requesting a Bitcoin withdrawal and I’ll expedite it for you. I’ll also assist you in having these funds deposited directly to your bank account, to be reflected in approximately 1-4 business days. Alternatively, please visit www.bitpay.com/visa for information regarding a Visa debit card which we will purchase for you. This card can be loaded with your Bitcoins, automatically converted to USD and can be withdrawn at any ATM that accepts Visa.
You can also use the link below to locate a Bitcoin ATM near you where you can get your funds today:
https://coinatmradar.com/bitcoin-atm-near-me
You will also receive a $120 Withdrawable Bitcoin bonus (no rollover/playthrough requirements) for your time.
Regards,
Bitcoin Advisory Team
bitcoinadvisor@bovada.lv
here is another message regarding the cashing of my check-interesting, eyn'a?
The FedEx Tracking Number for your $1,201.00 payout with Reference Number 423414977 is 780849430908. Depending on the time of day FedEx begins processing your package, it may take up to 72 hours before your tracking information is posted online.
There are some steps you can take to make depositing your check easier.
• Deposit your check as soon as received via ATM into your personal bank account.
• Do not mention "online gaming".
• Please allow normal check clearing time frames as your bank may place a hold on International items.
• We do not recommend check cashing outlets as these types of institutions may not honor International items.
-
bovada keeps trying to persuade it's players to switch to a bitcoin account claiming it's faster and you can ask for payouts more often than the one every 3 months i believe it is for u.s. currency. last month i cashed out on $1200 and it took about 2 weeks to get the check. here is the message they sent me, among others.
My name is Jed and I’m contacting you from Bovada’s Bitcoin Advisory department. At your convenience, give me a call at 1-888-233-5936, I'm available Saturday to Tuesday, 3p to 11p ET, and ask to be transferred to Jed at extension number 7332.
We're contacting you to congratulate you on your winnings and to inform you that we’re currently expediting withdrawals using the Bitcoin method for the first time. There are many benefits to using this option, such as:
• It’s Free.
• It’s Quick, Easy and convenient.
• It’s Secure.
• Amount and frequency – You can request a maximum of $9,500 per increment every 3 days.
As your personal Bitcoin Advisor, I’ll guide you through the simple steps of requesting a Bitcoin withdrawal and I’ll expedite it for you. I’ll also assist you in having these funds deposited directly to your bank account, to be reflected in approximately 1-4 business days. Alternatively, please visit www.bitpay.com/visa for information regarding a Visa debit card which we will purchase for you. This card can be loaded with your Bitcoins, automatically converted to USD and can be withdrawn at any ATM that accepts Visa.
You can also use the link below to locate a Bitcoin ATM near you where you can get your funds today:
https://coinatmradar.com/bitcoin-atm-near-me
You will also receive a $120 Withdrawable Bitcoin bonus (no rollover/playthrough requirements) for your time.
Regards,
Bitcoin Advisory Team
bitcoinadvisor@bovada.lv
here is another message regarding the cashing of my check-interesting, eyn'a?
The FedEx Tracking Number for your $1,201.00 payout with Reference Number 423414977 is 780849430908. Depending on the time of day FedEx begins processing your package, it may take up to 72 hours before your tracking information is posted online.
There are some steps you can take to make depositing your check easier.
• Deposit your check as soon as received via ATM into your personal bank account.
• Do not mention "online gaming".
• Please allow normal check clearing time frames as your bank may place a hold on International items.
• We do not recommend check cashing outlets as these types of institutions may not honor International items.
Lmao at "do not mention online gaming".......Hypocritical that when the bail-ins (now legal under the supposed consumer-friendly Dodd-Frank legislation) happen, do you think the banks will say, "Do not mention DERIVATIVES?"
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bovada keeps trying to persuade it's players to switch to a bitcoin account claiming it's faster and you can ask for payouts more often than the one every 3 months i believe it is for u.s. currency. last month i cashed out on $1200 and it took about 2 weeks to get the check. here is the message they sent me, among others.
My name is Jed and I’m contacting you from Bovada’s Bitcoin Advisory department. At your convenience, give me a call at 1-888-233-5936, I'm available Saturday to Tuesday, 3p to 11p ET, and ask to be transferred to Jed at extension number 7332.
We're contacting you to congratulate you on your winnings and to inform you that we’re currently expediting withdrawals using the Bitcoin method for the first time. There are many benefits to using this option, such as:
• It’s Free.
• It’s Quick, Easy and convenient.
• It’s Secure.
• Amount and frequency – You can request a maximum of $9,500 per increment every 3 days.
As your personal Bitcoin Advisor, I’ll guide you through the simple steps of requesting a Bitcoin withdrawal and I’ll expedite it for you. I’ll also assist you in having these funds deposited directly to your bank account, to be reflected in approximately 1-4 business days. Alternatively, please visit www.bitpay.com/visa for information regarding a Visa debit card which we will purchase for you. This card can be loaded with your Bitcoins, automatically converted to USD and can be withdrawn at any ATM that accepts Visa.
You can also use the link below to locate a Bitcoin ATM near you where you can get your funds today:
https://coinatmradar.com/bitcoin-atm-near-me
You will also receive a $120 Withdrawable Bitcoin bonus (no rollover/playthrough requirements) for your time.
Regards,
Bitcoin Advisory Team
bitcoinadvisor@bovada.lv
here is another message regarding the cashing of my check-interesting, eyn'a?
The FedEx Tracking Number for your $1,201.00 payout with Reference Number 423414977 is 780849430908. Depending on the time of day FedEx begins processing your package, it may take up to 72 hours before your tracking information is posted online.
There are some steps you can take to make depositing your check easier.
• Deposit your check as soon as received via ATM into your personal bank account.
• Do not mention "online gaming".
• Please allow normal check clearing time frames as your bank may place a hold on International items.
• We do not recommend check cashing outlets as these types of institutions may not honor International items.
This seems super scammy
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#ArrestHim, @ina?
I was going to buy Ripple in early January.. prices as high as ~$3... now down under fitty cent. Two reasons I didn't buy then: (1) couldn't get a good enough understanding of what the heck it was and (2) laziness - trying to figure out electronic wallets and crap.. was just too busy at the time and decided to revisit it at a later time...
That may be now... maybe just a smaller amount.. like $5k or $10k... and then #pray. I'll do it if someone else here does it. Deal?
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This seems super scammy
I have cashef two dozen + checks from Bovada, never had a single issue.
And rocket, you can request more payouts via check than once every 3 months, but ya gotta pay a hundo to do it, worth it if you caught a heater and want to get your $$$.
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I have cashef two dozen + checks from Bovada, never had a single issue.
And rocket, you can request more payouts via check than once every 3 months, but ya gotta pay a hundo to do it, worth it if you caught a heater and want to get your $$$.
good to know reinko-thanks!
that was my first pay-out. i don't play a lot because i get out to vegas enough to take the itch away. i still don't understand how the bitcoin thing would work. we all know how it's value fluctuates by the second, but let's say i put a $1000 and it goes down the chitter...is that considered a donation?
i'll stick with the ole "dead presidents"
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This seems super scammy
Bite your tongue. Without scams, your BTC would be worthless.
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good to know reinko-thanks!
that was my first pay-out. i don't play a lot because i get out to vegas enough to take the itch away. i still don't understand how the bitcoin thing would work. we all know how it's value fluctuates by the second, but let's say i put a $1000 and it goes down the chitter...is that considered a donation?
i'll stick with the ole "dead presidents"
The way it works on BetOnline is that you tell BOL you want to deposit $100, using the method of crypto. They look at the current rates and say "Ok, transfer X crypto to this wallet and we'll put $100 in your account". This deposit is basically instant, it only takes the time a normal crypto transfer from wallet to wallet takes. So you're only exposed to the same fluctuation any other crypto transfer takes.
Now, withdrawal is where it gets a bit shady. They take 24-72 hours to process your request, and the crypto to USD exchange rate isn't determined until your request is processed. So, you're susceptible to them being scummy and finding a 72 hour low point and only giving you that much crypto. In practice I haven't noticed anything too egregious in the couple of times I've done it on BOL, and I'm not sure if Bovada et al. have a similar 24-72 process period.
I may be explaining everything you already understood, just wanted to make sure you were aware that for the large majority of the time (save that 1-3 day processing period), the money you have in your account is all USD and not subject to market fluctuation.
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The way it works on BetOnline is that you tell BOL you want to deposit $100, using the method of crypto. They look at the current rates and say "Ok, transfer X crypto to this wallet and we'll put $100 in your account". This deposit is basically instant, it only takes the time a normal crypto transfer from wallet to wallet takes. So you're only exposed to the same fluctuation any other crypto transfer takes.
Now, withdrawal is where it gets a bit shady. They take 24-72 hours to process your request, and the crypto to USD exchange rate isn't determined until your request is processed. So, you're susceptible to them being scummy and finding a 72 hour low point and only giving you that much crypto. In practice I haven't noticed anything too egregious in the couple of times I've done it on BOL, and I'm not sure if Bovada et al. have a similar 24-72 process period.
I may be explaining everything you already understood, just wanted to make sure you were aware that for the large majority of the time (save that 1-3 day processing period), the money you have in your account is all USD and not subject to market fluctuation.
no, that was excellent-thanks! that also was my suspicion-at what point do they do the conversion? as we all know, bitcoin can go through many fluctuations over 24-72 hours. they ain't in the gamblin biness to lose, eyn'a? ;) heads i win-tails you lose ?-(
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Curious as to whether any of the crypto backers are still bullish on BTC et al and why.
Or are any y’all having a change of heart on the viability of cryptos as an investment?
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Time to get back on board guys... Well, a month ago was, but ya know.
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Here was your buy signal
https://twitter.com/biancoresearch/status/1127690566270103554?s=20
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6Zcl1QXkAAwN0S.jpg)
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Anyone care to share what their basis is in BTC? Not total investment, just the price (or average price) you're in at.
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Anyone care to share what their basis is in BTC? Not total investment, just the price (or average price) you're in at.
Jumped in right at $4,000.
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Anyone care to share what their basis is in BTC? Not total investment, just the price (or average price) you're in at.
Never bought bitcoin, but I did buy Ethereum at $301 on 10/11/17.Sold it on 1/2/18 at 858.92.
Haven't bought any cryptos since but I am considering jumping back in.
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At this point, I'm not sure that the cryptos are anything but an investment engine. Their practical utility seems to be disappearing.
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At this point, I'm not sure that the cryptos are anything but an investment engine. Their practical utility seems to be disappearing.
What? I thought you were smarter than this.
What about Venezuela? Their printed currency is worthless, and basically every transaction is currently being done in cryptocurrency.
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What? I thought you were smarter than this.
What about Venezuela? Their printed currency is worthless, and basically every transaction is currently being done in cryptocurrency.
How does "basically everybody" have access to cryptocurrency in a country like Venezuela?
People in the ghettos and rural areas are using crypto?
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What? I thought you were smarter than this.
What about Venezuela? Their printed currency is worthless, and basically every transaction is currently being done in cryptocurrency.
80% of the population doesn't have electricity or running water but they are leveraging cryptocurrencies? How are they acquiring them? I'm doubting they are mining for it.
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80% of the population doesn't have electricity or running water but they are leveraging cryptocurrencies? How are they acquiring them? I'm doubting they are mining for it.
Pneumatic batteries, hey?
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What? I thought you were smarter than this.
What about Venezuela? Their printed currency is worthless, and basically every transaction is currently being done in cryptocurrency.
The overwhelming majority of Venezuela's "transactions" are being done via barter or US Dollars.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article227261249.html
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Crypto is pure speculation. It may or may not gain value in the future, but any gain in value is based on what people think it is worth, not inherent value like stock (revenue, dividends) or even commodities, which have practical uses.
The primary purposes of currency is to serve as a store of value, unit of account, and as a medium of exchange. For it to succeed at any of these, it needs to have a relatively stable value. Something as volatile as Bitcoin or any other crypto"currency" fails those litmus tests miserably.
If you want to gamble a small percentage of your net worth, go for it. But that's all it is, gambling.
Blockchain has real potential for non-currency uses. The technology itself is pretty revolutionary. I think it will have real applications for speeding up international money transfers and transactions with multiple types of currency.
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Crypto is pure speculation. It may or may not gain value in the future, but any gain in value is based on what people think it is worth, not inherent value like stock (revenue, dividends) or even commodities, which have practical uses.
The primary purposes of currency is to serve as a store of value, unit of account, and as a medium of exchange. For it to succeed at any of these, it needs to have a relatively stable value. Something as volatile as Bitcoin or any other crypto"currency" fails those litmus tests miserably.
If you want to gamble a small percentage of your net worth, go for it. But that's all it is, gambling.
Blockchain has real potential for non-currency uses. The technology itself is pretty revolutionary. I think it will have real applications for speeding up international money transfers and transactions with multiple types of currency.
Wait, you just described gold.
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Wait, you just described gold.
Which is why gold is no longer a currency.
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Which is why gold is no longer a currency.
and Gold has other intrinsic "value" beyond that of a currency. Almost all electronics depend on gold in some capacity, especially electro-mechanical devices. It has value because it can be used to create something that also has value. Gold's volatility is tied to speculation AND it's scarcity within the demand of practical applications. Cryptos are volatile only because of speculation.
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Which is why gold is no longer a currency.
??????
Will disagree on that one
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and Gold has other intrinsic "value" beyond that of a currency. Almost all electronics depend on gold in some capacity, especially electro-mechanical devices. It has value because it can be used to create something that also has value. Gold's volatility is tied to speculation AND it's scarcity within the demand of practical applications. Cryptos are volatile only because of speculation.
This. Gold, silver, platinum, copper are all stores of value, and all have industrial applications. BTC may be the former, but it certainly isn't the latter.
I'm curious as to whether there's a BTC mining rig out there that doesn't contain one of the above. Otherwise, buying BTC because you want a store of value is like buying a gallon of milk because you want a plastic jug.
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and Gold has other intrinsic "value" beyond that of a currency. Almost all electronics depend on gold in some capacity, especially electro-mechanical devices. It has value because it can be used to create something that also has value. Gold's volatility is tied to speculation AND it's scarcity within the demand of practical applications. Cryptos are volatile only because of speculation.
Well said. Gold is a bit of an oddity because it does have practical uses but also has quite a bit of speculation behind it, and is influenced by monetary pressures such as the strength of the US dollar.
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??????
Will disagree on that one
Gold is definitely no longer a currency. It may still be considered "money," in the informal sense. But beyond bullion coins, whose face value are far below their true value it is no longer used by any central bank for the issuance of currency.
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I guess it is a currency in the most basic of terms. But it isn't a currency in the sense that it is the official currency of any nation-state.
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I guess it is a currency in the most basic of terms. But it isn't a currency in the sense that it is the official currency of any nation-state.
if by most basic terms, you mean a preppers wet dream, we are in agreement :)
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I guess it is a currency in the most basic of terms. But it isn't a currency in the sense that it is the official currency of any nation-state.
No longer legal tender, but in my mind it is still one of the most valuable currencies on the planet.....especially potentially if the shat hits the fan. Some interesting economic articles out there about whether Gold is a currency, a commodity, neither, etc.
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No longer legal tender, but in my mind it is still one of the most valuable currencies on the planet.....especially potentially if the shat hits the fan. Some interesting economic articles out there about whether Gold is a currency, a commodity, neither, etc.
Glad to know that you have a nice stash of canned good if things really get bad.
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Glad to know that you have a nice stash of canned good if things really get bad.
Lol. By the way, Lenny thinks you and I are same...in fact 100% certain...so this is a great conversation I am having with myself apparently.
And if things get really bad here in So Cal, it’s over anyway. I’ll live on my oranges, lemons and cumquats growing in backyard and fire one warning shot at anyone thinking about hopping my wall....the next one won’t be a warning shot. :D
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Lol. By the way, Lenny thinks you and I are same...in fact 100% certain...so this is a great conversation I am having with myself apparently.
And if things get really bad here in So Cal, it’s over anyway. I’ll live on my oranges, lemons and cumquats growing in backyard and fire one warning shot at anyone thinking about hopping my wall....the next one won’t be a warning shot. :D
Wishful thinking. If the shiite really hits the fan, anywhere in California will be next to the worst possible place to be.
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Wishful thinking. If the shiite really hits the fan, anywhere in California will be next to the worst possible place to be.
Maybe we are saying the same thing, but what I am saying is I wouldn’t want to be here if it does hit. Already too many people, add that chaos and it will be biblical here.
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Lol. By the way, Lenny thinks you and I are same...in fact 100% certain...so this is a great conversation I am having with myself apparently.
And if things get really bad here in So Cal, it’s over anyway. I’ll live on my oranges, lemons and cumquats growing in backyard and fire one warning shot at anyone thinking about hopping my wall....the next one won’t be a warning shot. :D
At least you wont get scurvy, aina.
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80% of the population doesn't have electricity or running water but they are leveraging cryptocurrencies? How are they acquiring them? I'm doubting they are mining for it.
You're joking right? Bitcoins aren't mined locally. You can buy them on your mobile phone.
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and Gold has other intrinsic "value" beyond that of a currency. Almost all electronics depend on gold in some capacity, especially electro-mechanical devices. It has value because it can be used to create something that also has value. Gold's volatility is tied to speculation AND it's scarcity within the demand of practical applications. Cryptos are volatile only because of speculation.
I'm guessing you lack a basic understanding of Bitcoin.
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I guess it is a currency in the most basic of terms. But it isn't a currency in the sense that it is the official currency of any nation-state.
That's the idea. The currency isn't backed by a centralized bank, it is backed by its users.
Sure seem to be a lot of people talking about crypto that don't understand it at all.
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The overwhelming majority of Venezuela's "transactions" are being done via barter or US Dollars.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article227261249.html
So, a lot of people converted their money into cryptos, and then convert them back into Bolivars or USD at the point of purchase. Most vendors only accept Bolivars because that is what the government requires.
The reasons people hold their money in cryptos and then convert back in forth is because the Bolivar has undergone hyperinflation. As an example, you don't want your 100 Bolivars turning into the value of 80 Bolivars overnight... so you convert it into something that is accessible, reliable, and stores value. And that's crypto for now.
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So, a lot of people converted their money into cryptos, and then convert them back into Bolivars or USD at the point of purchase. Most vendors only accept Bolivars because that is what the government requires.
The reasons people hold their money in cryptos and then convert back in forth is because the Bolivar has undergone hyperinflation. As an example, you don't want your 100 Bolivars turning into the value of 80 Bolivars overnight... so you convert it into something that is accessible, reliable, and stores value. And that's crypto for now.
I doubt that the majority of transactions are happening that way. If I'm wrong, show me evidence that a majority of Venezuelans are using crypto. That is what you claimed.
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This. Gold, silver, platinum, copper are all stores of value, and all have industrial applications. BTC may be the former, but it certainly isn't the latter.
I'm curious as to whether there's a BTC mining rig out there that doesn't contain one of the above. Otherwise, buying BTC because you want a store of value is like buying a gallon of milk because you want a plastic jug.
Another difference is that basically every person on earth would like to have gold. The vast majority of people on earth have never heard of cryptocurrency.
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I doubt that the majority of transactions are happening that way. If I'm wrong, show me evidence that a majority of Venezuelans are using crypto. That is what you claimed.
As someone who plays runescape. Venezuelans definitely use crypto all the time.
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1/3 of Venezuelans lack internet access.
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There's also this: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-27/blackout-leaves-91-of-venezuela-without-an-internet-connection
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There's also this: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-27/blackout-leaves-91-of-venezuela-without-an-internet-connection
This literally happened today.
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I doubt that the majority of transactions are happening that way. If I'm wrong, show me evidence that a majority of Venezuelans are using crypto. That is what you claimed.
Sorry, I later said, "A lot".
I don't have a source to refute your nitpick.
Any grammar you'd like to correct for me?
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I'm guessing you lack a basic understanding of Bitcoin.
Quite confident I know more about bitcoin at both a technical and fiscal level than 99% of the population. Keep guessing
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Quite confident I know more about bitcoin at both a technical and fiscal level than 99% of the population. Keep guessing
While I understand that gold has intrinsic value, that wasn't really the case for the majority of its use in human history. Additionally, about 10% of gold that is newly produced is used in industrial applications. Most gold is used for jewelry or value storage (investments). My point is, that Bitcoin is similar because it is a store of value. We obviously cannot return to the gold standard, and fiat money has it's own set of problems. Bitcoin and cryptos solves these problems and remove banks from the equation. Bitcoin is easily transferable internationally, has fraud protection, no identity theft problems, and is anonymous. You control your money. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but it is still young. The main problem is people dont bother to learn anything about it, and call it the next tulip bubble. And it's clearly not. Of course it will be volatile... and more so than gold. If the US were to experience hyperinflation, what would you do with your money?
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While I understand that gold has intrinsic value, that wasn't really the case for the majority of its use in human history. Additionally, about 10% of gold that is newly produced is used in industrial applications. Most gold is used for jewelry or value storage (investments). My point is, that Bitcoin is similar because it is a store of value. We obviously cannot return to the gold standard, and fiat money has it's own set of problems. Bitcoin and cryptos solves these problems and remove banks from the equation. Bitcoin is easily transferable internationally, has fraud protection, no identity theft problems, and is anonymous. You control your money. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but it is still young. The main problem is people dont bother to learn anything about it, and call it the next tulip bubble. And it's clearly not. Of course it will be volatile... and more so than gold. If the US were to experience hyperinflation, what would you do with your money?
Typically, when someone stumbles across an amazing investment, they usually keep their mouths shut and take advantage of the naysayers’ ignorance.
However, there’s no shortage of those going to great lengths trying to convince others that BTC is such a great investment. Why is that? If BTC is the smart money, why are all these people “sharing the wealth”???
Although, to answer your question on hyperinflation, the answer is “take advantage of the historically high savings rates.”
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Typically, when someone stumbles across an amazing investment, they usually keep their mouths shut and take advantage of the naysayers’ ignorance.
However, there’s no shortage of those going to great lengths trying to convince others that BTC is such a great investment. Why is that? If BTC is the smart money, why are all these people “sharing the wealth”???
Although, to answer your question on hyperinflation, the answer is “take advantage of the historically high savings rates.”
Good luck with all of that.
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While I understand that gold has intrinsic value, that wasn't really the case for the majority of its use in human history. Additionally, about 10% of gold that is newly produced is used in industrial applications. Most gold is used for jewelry or value storage (investments). My point is, that Bitcoin is similar because it is a store of value. We obviously cannot return to the gold standard, and fiat money has it's own set of problems. Bitcoin and cryptos solves these problems and remove banks from the equation. Bitcoin is easily transferable internationally, has fraud protection, no identity theft problems, and is anonymous. You control your money. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but it is still young. The main problem is people dont bother to learn anything about it, and call it the next tulip bubble. And it's clearly not. Of course it will be volatile... and more so than gold. If the US were to experience hyperinflation, what would you do with your money?
Bitcoin and its crypto brethren are only as safe as the technology that enables it (Blockchain) and while Blockchain is an amazing technology and in turn makes BTC the most secure currency on the planet it has a shelf life. Quantum computing will obliterate the value of blockchain, and while it might not be right around the corner it's not far off. Further, and as a Modern Whig I'm not happy about it, do not underestimate the ability of governments to regulate and suppress cryptos....they have a vested interest in the success of fiat currencies of course. I do agree that removing banks from the equation removes cost from the model that in turn frees up capital for more productive purposes, but there would need to be a near titanic shift in consumer behavior to leverage that benefit.
There is a great book out there, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind (I get the scholarship is debated but some of the concepts are quite sound), that posits human success is largely enabled on our ability to agree to a shared mythology. Essentially entire structures (religion, currency, governments, etc) are built upon an agreed to mythology but that mythology can be altered as society evolves or technology advances. We moved from barter to metals as currency to currency backed by metals to fiat currency w/o backing because the mythology changed. Peoples "faith" in government stability and longevity increased, etc. Cryptos rely on the mythology of security, anonymity, and portability all of which is tied to the technology component. Bottom line, shifting mythology on cryptos can/will be much more dynamic and/or catastrophic than will be the slow change of fiat currencies and the like. It's a good investment/storage of value now, but I also take a look at the long game.
As to your last statement, let me see if I understand this, the US is experiencing hyperinflation(the US dollar is the de facto global currency) and you believe cryptos will somehow be immune to this inflation? What magic elixir makes a crypto currency unimpacted by the currency behavior models?
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While I understand that gold has intrinsic value, that wasn't really the case for the majority of its use in human history. Additionally, about 10% of gold that is newly produced is used in industrial applications. Most gold is used for jewelry or value storage (investments). My point is, that Bitcoin is similar because it is a store of value. We obviously cannot return to the gold standard, and fiat money has it's own set of problems. Bitcoin and cryptos solves these problems and remove banks from the equation. Bitcoin is easily transferable internationally, has fraud protection, no identity theft problems, and is anonymous. You control your money. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but it is still young. The main problem is people dont bother to learn anything about it, and call it the next tulip bubble. And it's clearly not. Of course it will be volatile... and more so than gold. If the US were to experience hyperinflation, what would you do with your money?
Here's the rub that I have not heard anyone address adequately...
There's only one gold: gold. The supply of gold is limited by what is in the earth's crust. Sure silver/platinum are also precious metals (with extensive industrial uses, btw) but there is a finite quantity of precious metals in the earth's crust. If it becomes too expensive, mining operations increase, increasing supply and driving prices back down. If it becomes cheap, mining operations cease, increasing scarcity and driving prices back up. The market keeps the value (relatively) stable.
There are dozens of cryptos: bitcoin, bitcoin cash, etherium, ripple, litecoin, etc. literally new ones are popping up everyday. Most crucially, there is no limit to the number of cryptocurrencies. Long Island Iced Tea created its own cryptocurrency. The price swings in cryptos are wild speculative fluctuations, not simple corrections to market pressures.
I would be more convinced a given cryptocurrency was a decent store of value if there was some assurance that it was actually the definitive cryptocurrency that will have a relatively stable valuation, not one of an infinite number.
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Typically, when someone stumbles across an amazing investment, they usually keep their mouths shut and take advantage of the naysayers’ ignorance.
However, there’s no shortage of those going to great lengths trying to convince others that BTC is such a great investment. Why is that? If BTC is the smart money, why are all these people “sharing the wealth”???
Pump and dump
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Here's the rub that I have not heard anyone address adequately...
There's only one gold: gold. The supply of gold is limited by what is in the earth's crust. Sure silver/platinum are also precious metals (with extensive industrial uses, btw) but there is a finite quantity of precious metals in the earth's crust. If it becomes too expensive, mining operations increase, increasing supply and driving prices back down. If it becomes cheap, mining operations cease, increasing scarcity and driving prices back up. The market keeps the value (relatively) stable.
There are dozens of cryptos: bitcoin, bitcoin cash, etherium, ripple, litecoin, etc. literally new ones are popping up everyday. Most crucially, there is no limit to the number of cryptocurrencies. Long Island Iced Tea created its own cryptocurrency. The price swings in cryptos are wild speculative fluctuations, not simple corrections to market pressures.
I would be more convinced a given cryptocurrency was a decent store of value if there was some assurance that it was actually the definitive cryptocurrency that will have a relatively stable valuation, not one of an infinite number.
I'll return to what I said. You dont seem to know much about crypto. Bitcoin has a finite number of coins. 21 million. Never more. Not all crypto is equal. Probably a good idea to read about them before drawing such a conclusion.
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Bitcoin and its crypto brethren are only as safe as the technology that enables it (Blockchain) and while Blockchain is an amazing technology and in turn makes BTC the most secure currency on the planet it has a shelf life. Quantum computing will obliterate the value of blockchain, and while it might not be right around the corner it's not far off. Further, and as a Modern Whig I'm not happy about it, do not underestimate the ability of governments to regulate and suppress cryptos....they have a vested interest in the success of fiat currencies of course. I do agree that removing banks from the equation removes cost from the model that in turn frees up capital for more productive purposes, but there would need to be a near titanic shift in consumer behavior to leverage that benefit.
There is a great book out there, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind (I get the scholarship is debated but some of the concepts are quite sound), that posits human success is largely enabled on our ability to agree to a shared mythology. Essentially entire structures (religion, currency, governments, etc) are built upon an agreed to mythology but that mythology can be altered as society evolves or technology advances. We moved from barter to metals as currency to currency backed by metals to fiat currency w/o backing because the mythology changed. Peoples "faith" in government stability and longevity increased, etc. Cryptos rely on the mythology of security, anonymity, and portability all of which is tied to the technology component. Bottom line, shifting mythology on cryptos can/will be much more dynamic and/or catastrophic than will be the slow change of fiat currencies and the like. It's a good investment/storage of value now, but I also take a look at the long game.
As to your last statement, let me see if I understand this, the US is experiencing hyperinflation(the US dollar is the de facto global currency) and you believe cryptos will somehow be immune to this inflation? What magic elixir makes a crypto currency unimpacted by the currency behavior models?
I don't disagree with your points on quantum computing, and that of course will be a game changer for basically our entire society.
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Bitcoin and its crypto brethren are only as safe as the technology that enables it (Blockchain) and while Blockchain is an amazing technology and in turn makes BTC the most secure currency on the planet it has a shelf life. Quantum computing will obliterate the value of blockchain, and while it might not be right around the corner it's not far off. Further, and as a Modern Whig I'm not happy about it, do not underestimate the ability of governments to regulate and suppress cryptos....they have a vested interest in the success of fiat currencies of course. I do agree that removing banks from the equation removes cost from the model that in turn frees up capital for more productive purposes, but there would need to be a near titanic shift in consumer behavior to leverage that benefit.
There is a great book out there, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind (I get the scholarship is debated but some of the concepts are quite sound), that posits human success is largely enabled on our ability to agree to a shared mythology. Essentially entire structures (religion, currency, governments, etc) are built upon an agreed to mythology but that mythology can be altered as society evolves or technology advances. We moved from barter to metals as currency to currency backed by metals to fiat currency w/o backing because the mythology changed. Peoples "faith" in government stability and longevity increased, etc. Cryptos rely on the mythology of security, anonymity, and portability all of which is tied to the technology component. Bottom line, shifting mythology on cryptos can/will be much more dynamic and/or catastrophic than will be the slow change of fiat currencies and the like. It's a good investment/storage of value now, but I also take a look at the long game.
As to your last statement, let me see if I understand this, the US is experiencing hyperinflation(the US dollar is the de facto global currency) and you believe cryptos will somehow be immune to this inflation? What magic elixir makes a crypto currency unimpacted by the currency behavior models?
The effect of quantum computing on the value of blockchain technology is overestimated.
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While I understand that gold has intrinsic value, that wasn't really the case for the majority of its use in human history. Additionally, about 10% of gold that is newly produced is used in industrial applications. Most gold is used for jewelry or value storage (investments). My point is, that Bitcoin is similar because it is a store of value. We obviously cannot return to the gold standard, and fiat money has it's own set of problems. Bitcoin and cryptos solves these problems and remove banks from the equation. Bitcoin is easily transferable internationally, has fraud protection, no identity theft problems, and is anonymous. You control your money. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but it is still young. The main problem is people dont bother to learn anything about it, and call it the next tulip bubble. And it's clearly not. Of course it will be volatile... and more so than gold. If the US were to experience hyperinflation, what would you do with your money?
People having been warning about hyper inflation for 30 years. It’s low on my list of concerns.
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I'll return to what I said. You dont seem to know much about crypto. Bitcoin has a finite number of coins. 21 million. Never more. Not all crypto is equal. Probably a good idea to read about them before drawing such a conclusion.
I'm aware there is a finite number of bitcoins. I still stand by my point of crypto fragmentation, which you didn't really address.
Just telling people who know about crypto that they don't know about crypto isn't a great refutation.
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I'm aware there is a finite number of bitcoins. I still stand by my point of crypto fragmentation, which you didn't really address.
Just telling people who know about crypto that they don't know about crypto isn't a great refutation.
Crypto fragmentation isnt important. Many cryptos will fail, probably most. That shouldn't matter. A lot of companies fail as well. You bet on the good ones. With documentation, white papers, and that seem to fill a need. The others can burn away.
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Crypto fragmentation isnt important. Many cryptos will fail, probably most. That shouldn't matter. A lot of companies fail as well. You bet on the good ones. With documentation, white papers, and that seem to fill a need. The others can burn away.
We are able to make rational, calculated analyses on which companies are "good"...revenue, profit, balance sheet, dividend payouts, etc.
On what basis is one crypto better than other? Why is Ether a better (or worse) long term bet than Litecoin?
Further, you shouldn't have to make a "bet" on a store of value. A store of value should be predictable and stable....like the US dollar or gold.
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We are able to make rational, calculated analyses on which companies are "good"...revenue, profit, balance sheet, dividend payouts, etc.
On what basis is one crypto better than other? Why is Ether a better (or worse) long term bet than Litecoin?
Further, you shouldn't have to make a "bet" on a store of value. A store of value should be predictable and stable....like the US dollar or gold.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
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You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
That’s not really an answer.
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That’s not really an answer.
Yo, it isn't my job to educate someone that claims to have knowledge. Especially, since he is clearly full of chit. If you dont know the difference between different cryptos, then dont claim to have knowledge. Hell, he could have googled the answer to his own question and not looked stupid.
Additionally, we 'bet' on stocks all the time. We do this with as much knowledge regarding them as we can. Unless you prefer the dartboard method? He's either being dishonest about his knowledge base or trolling poorly. Either way, he gets the responses he deserves.
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Yo, it isn't my job to educate someone that claims to have knowledge. Especially, since he is clearly full of chit. If you dont know the difference between different cryptos, then dont claim to have knowledge. Hell, he could have googled the answer to his own question and not looked stupid.
Additionally, we 'bet' on stocks all the time. We do this with as much knowledge regarding them as we can. Unless you prefer the dartboard method? He's either being dishonest about his knowledge base or trolling poorly. Either way, he gets the responses he deserves.
Comparing stocks and bitcoin is lazy.
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Comparing stocks and bitcoin is lazy.
Its called an analogy. Surprised it went over your head.
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The effect of quantum computing on the value of blockchain technology is overestimated.
Disagree, the inherent security(and by extension value) is based on the fact that the time it takes to hack the hash for a single ledger(ie a block) more blocks have been added and you have to have the down stream blocks to unlock the transaction. Quantum computing allows you to hack the hashes significantly faster, faster than the 10 minutes before the next block is added.
Also the fact that the minors are trending towards centralization (last I checked 6 mining pools owned 80% of the blockchain for BTC) further weakens the security that QC will break pretty quickly IMO
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I'll return to what I said. You dont seem to know much about crypto. Bitcoin has a finite number of coins. 21 million. Never more. Not all crypto is equal. Probably a good idea to read about them before drawing such a conclusion.
Yes, but it is infinitely divisible. Even though there are 21 million, decimal points can go on forever.
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Disagree, the inherent security(and by extension value) is based on the fact that the time it takes to hack the hash for a single ledger(ie a block) more blocks have been added and you have to have the down stream blocks to unlock the transaction. Quantum computing allows you to hack the hashes significantly faster, faster than the 10 minutes before the next block is added.
Also the fact that the minors are trending towards centralization (last I checked 6 mining pools owned 80% of the blockchain for BTC) further weakens the security that QC will break pretty quickly IMO
My contention revolves around the fact that it is not "inherent security" that determines its value, but "relative security". Quantum computing will be a game changer, in terms of hackability of networks, nodes, and by extension transactions. But, Blockchain by its design will still be the most secure technology, hence because of its relative security, it will not be effected much in terms of value.
I used to be more worried about the effect of Quantum computing, but looking into it deeper, and talking to experts I know, I'm not as concerned. The main risk will remain, human-risks, and human-design errors, re. 60-70% of total traffic towards Bitcoin nodes is controlled by only 3 ISP's, making it vulnerable to routing attacks. These are things that can be fixed easily.
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My contention revolves around the fact that it is not "inherent security" that determines its value, but "relative security". Quantum computing will be a game changer, in terms of hackability of networks, nodes, and by extension transactions. But, Blockchain by its design will still be the most secure technology, hence because of its relative security, it will not be effected much in terms of value.
I used to be more worried about the effect of Quantum computing, but looking into it deeper, and talking to experts I know, I'm not as concerned. The main risk will remain, human-risks, and human-design errors, re. 60-70% of total traffic towards Bitcoin nodes is controlled by only 3 ISP's, making it vulnerable to routing attacks. These are things that can be fixed easily.
It's a fair opinion to have and I can't necessarily disprove it. Guess we'll have to revisit this in 20 years :)
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Yes, but it is infinitely divisible. Even though there are 21 million, decimal points can go on forever.
Explain why this is a problem.
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It's a fair opinion to have and I can't necessarily disprove it. Guess we'll have to revisit this in 20 years :)
Agreed, I can't prove it either, and I for one welcome our quantum computing overlords.
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Explain why this is a problem.
Have you ever heard of Zeno's paradoxes?
One month bread costs 0.00000002 bitcoins. The next month bread costs 0.00000007 bitcoins. That's hyperinflation.
Moreover, it's my understanding that in the source code of Bitcoin, the number of decimal places can be increased to infinity if needed. So even though Bitcoin's supply is nominally limited to 21 million coins, it is effectively unlimited because it can be divided up infinitely.
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Have you ever heard of Zeno's paradoxes?
One month bread costs 0.00000002 bitcoins. The next month bread costs 0.00000007 bitcoins. That's hyperinflation.
Moreover, it's my understanding that in the source code of Bitcoin, the number of decimal places can be increased to infinity if needed. So even though Bitcoin's supply is nominally limited to 21 million coins, it is effectively unlimited because it can be divided up infinitely.
That’s no different than any other commodity or shares of stock or mutual fund however.
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That’s no different than any other commodity or shares of stock or mutual fund however.
This is certainly true but Hards contention is the BTC is immune to inflationary pressures. It might be more resistant but as your point shows it would not be immune.
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This is certainly true but Hards contention is the BTC is immune to inflationary pressures. It might be more resistant but as your point shows it would not be immune.
You obviously know nothing about crypto or bitcoin ;)
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You obviously know nothing about crypto or bitcoin ;)
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/6120686baffb3ae331bb44e5e9505c56/tenor.gif?itemid=9302846)
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You obviously know nothing about crypto or bitcoin ;)
It's not surprising that BTC/crypto supporters use this talking point despite the fact that there are a number of "informational firewalls" to prevent the general public from learning about the inner-workings of BTC/crypto.
What would be surprising is if any Americans are truly using BTC/crypto as a "store of value" (SOV). Because I would expect that BTC/crypto owners who like to trumpet this fact don't know enough about finance to realize what they're actually doing is making a "speculative investment." A SOV is someplace you put your money to protect it against material and systematic risk (MSR), i.e. a collapse of a sovereign currency, economy, war, hyper-inflation, etc.
In the US, even if we prejudged a MSR event as a statistical impossibility, there are better SOV's available, including everyone's favorite, gold, which - while short in supply - is not restricted in the US, i.e. any of us can go out and buy it right now.
So why would someone put money into BTC as a SOV? Usually, it's because they live in a country where MSR is a real possibility and/or ownership of SOV's do not come without restriction. In the US, it's pure lunacy to protect your wealth with BTC rather than gold or another imperishable commodity.
Further, a SOV is not a "hedge against risk" in the same way that options and derivatives are utilized. A hedge is a temporary or short-term contingency against volatility in a primary investment, because hedging on a permanent or long-term basis is tantamount to betting every number on the roulette table... over time, the "house cut" will bankrupt you ("death by a thousand cuts" pun intended). Moreover, BTC itself is the primary investment... there is nothing "up the food chain" that you're using BTC to hedge against.
So holding BTC long term is a poor choice of SOV in the developed world, and it's not a hedge against anything. It's also not a traditional investment that pays a dividend or any sort of return. So what is it? Well, most BTC owners in America won't admit it (because apparently it's sacrilege), but every single one always has a price where they're willing to sell - or at least a range where they strongly consider it. In other words, much like a vegan investment banker in Manhattan who's buying pork bellies, American BTC owners have no intent on using it for any other reason except as a vehicle for profit. Hence, "speculative investment."
Technically, it might be unto a category of its own, i.e. "cult speculative investment," because every time someone points out what's actually going on, the BTC mafia descends on you like Scientologists on Leah Remini.
At best, those who own crypto in the US are simply capitalizing (double entendre) on the unfortunate circumstances people that live under autocratic regimes face in risking having their wealth, the products of their labor, taken from them (or commandeered) by the state. At worst, it's closer to the manner in which American demand for certain food commodities (i.e. certain rices, quinoa, etc.) is driving up food costs (thus increasing starvation) in undeveloped countries.
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Well, today was a bad day.
lol
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Well, since Hards resurrected the thread.... has Covid-19 swayed anyone’s opinion as to the purported benefits of crypto’s? Even a tiny bit?
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Well, since Hards resurrected the thread.... has Covid-19 swayed anyone’s opinion as to the purported benefits of crypto’s? Even a tiny bit?
Jumpy people will sell 'investmments' in scary times.
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(https://media1.giphy.com/media/kPm4apd5PX1F8AHSOK/giphy.gif)
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$19,300 at the time of posting.
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I've been in and out of various cryptos, mostly Etherium. Don't currently have any crypto. The fact that you can now buy through Paypal and Square is a big boost for all of the cryptos, but not sure if this recent pop is going to be sustainable. My guess is if you wait, you will probably be able to buy it lower, but I could also see BTC hit 30K before then too.
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I've been in and out of various cryptos, mostly Etherium. Don't currently have any crypto. The fact that you can now buy through Paypal and Square is a big boost for all of the cryptos, but not sure if this recent pop is going to be sustainable. My guess is if you wait, you will probably be able to buy it lower, but I could also see BTC hit 30K before then too.
Totally agree. Now is definitely not the time to buy. Would have been nice to buy more at 3k back in March. But you know... timing things like this are scary.
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bought a little bit at 13,000 then more at 15,000. using coinbase but i wish there was a mechanism where i could put an order in at a specific price-anyone know of one.
i actually got into the bitcoin reluctantly so i could play some bovada. as i'm waiting for my funds to become available, i was watching it go up and up and...f@*k bovada, this is more interesting now, one another good entry point before this goes to 50k
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bought a little bit at 13,000 then more at 15,000. using coinbase but i wish there was a mechanism where i could put an order in at a specific price-anyone know of one.
i actually got into the bitcoin reluctantly so i could play some bovada. as i'm waiting for my funds to become available, i was watching it go up and up and...f@*k bovada, this is more interesting now, one another good entry point before this goes to 50k
Coinbase Pro actually. It’s connected to Coinbase, you instantly can transfer cash and BTC back and forth. In Pro, there is a standard market/limit/stop loss buy like in any brokerage for equities
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Coinbase Pro actually. It’s connected to Coinbase, you instantly can transfer cash and BTC back and forth. In Pro, there is a standard market/limit/stop loss buy like in any brokerage for equities
thanks wags, so i can transfer what i have in coingbase to cb pro? i'm looking into that thanks! i'd actually like to see it drop a little more...back up about 3% ($17.6k right now) over last 24 hours. i think it dipped just below 16k yesterday early
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thanks wags, so i can transfer what i have in coingbase to cb pro? i'm looking into that thanks! i'd actually like to see it drop a little more...back up about 3% ($17.6k right now) over last 24 hours. i think it dipped just below 16k yesterday early
yes, you shouldn't need to transfer either, I think if you login to pro, it works.
All time high hit this morning
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yes, you shouldn't need to transfer either, I think if you login to pro, it works.
All time high hit this morning
Correct. You log into CB Pro with your same Coinbase credentials. You do have to "transfer" from CB, but its just a deposit function that is instantaneous and then you can sell. Then you can either transfer cash to a bank from CB Pro or send it back to CB and do it that way. Either way its seamless and quick
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Correct. You log into CB Pro with your same Coinbase credentials. You do have to "transfer" from CB, but its just a deposit function that is instantaneous and then you can sell. Then you can either transfer cash to a bank from CB Pro or send it back to CB and do it that way. Either way its seamless and quick
yes, i transferred it right after i saw your post the other day-easy! thanks
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Is there a moral hazard in being involved in Bitcoin?
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Is there a moral hazard in being involved in Bitcoin?
Why would there be?
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Why would there be?
Bitcoin is often used for illegal transactions and money laundering.
Other currencies are never used for such transactions.
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Is there a moral hazard in being involved in Bitcoin?
Worried about bitcoin, but not worried about withholding covid care from those you deem unworthy.
You might want to just log off for the day, kin.
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Bitcoin is often used for illegal transactions and money laundering.
Other currencies are never used for such transactions.
Teal?
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nm
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Cryptocurrencies are often used and preferred by those dealing in human trafficking. I think there is definitely a moral component to it, now I don't think that by investing in it you are directly contributing to anything immoral or bad, but there is a darker than normal shady side to crypto.
Then what exactly is the "moral component" if people who invest it aren't contributing to anything immoral?
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Worried about bitcoin, but not worried about withholding covid care from those you deem unworthy.
You might want to just log off for the day, kin.
Did I say I was worried?
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Then what exactly is the "moral component" if people who invest it aren't contributing to anything immoral?
The argument he used is frequently used by people who think Bitcoin is untraceable currency.
Which it isn't.
Dollarydoos are most certainly used in plenty of nefarious ways around the world. Why don't we consider that?
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The argument he used is frequently used by people who think Bitcoin is untraceable currency.
Which it isn't.
Dollarydoos are most certainly used in plenty of nefarious ways around the world. Why don't we consider that?
Pallets of cash to Persia, aina.?
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Pallets of cash to Persia, aina.?
Not to mention Columbian white.
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Teal?
Most definitely.
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Pallets of cash to Persia, aina.?
yeah, but that went to pay off student debt and to provide shelters for abused woman
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After testing $24,000 per bitcoin this week, Coinbase filed for an IPO with the SEC.
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tickling 24,900
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tickling 24,900
If it keeps going at this rate, I could finish off the mortgage soon haha
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Seeing how this has moved historically, I wouldn’t be surprised to see $30,000 by Jan 1, and then a pull back closer to $23,000
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Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
An NFL first: #Panthers OT Russell Okung will receive half of his $13M in salary in Bitcoin. As part of a partnership with @in_strike and thanks to creative payroll solutions from the #Panthers, @RussellOkung will fulfill the goal he set when he tweeted “Pay me in Bitcoin!”
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1343929946918543363
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Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
An NFL first: #Panthers OT Russell Okung will receive half of his $13M in salary in Bitcoin. As part of a partnership with @in_strike and thanks to creative payroll solutions from the #Panthers, @RussellOkung will fulfill the goal he set when he tweeted “Pay me in Bitcoin!”
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1343929946918543363
This is 100% wrong.
He was paid in US$, that were then converted to Bitcoin. Dumbest story I keep hearing about all day. He was NOT paid in Bitcoin.
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Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
An NFL first: #Panthers OT Russell Okung will receive half of his $13M in salary in Bitcoin. As part of a partnership with @in_strike and thanks to creative payroll solutions from the #Panthers, @RussellOkung will fulfill the goal he set when he tweeted “Pay me in Bitcoin!”
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1343929946918543363
Well, you know what they say about a fool and his money...clearly Mr Okung is not working with an advisor acting as a fiduciary for him. No one would recommend he put so much of his net worth into such a volatile asset. Especially when his career and ability to make the money he's making could end on the next snap.
My firm doesn't allow us to buy any form of crypto for our clients, but of course we have clients that ask about it. I tell them it's okay to take a SMALL position if they want to, but it could very easily end up worthless some day.
Nothing is stopping the SEC from labeling any of the cryptos as a security, in which case they would get slammed, just like what happened to Ripple. I do know XRP is different from ETH and BTC in that it is actually issued by a company and not a decentralized form of currency, but the SEC has a very broad definition of what is a security and I think for the most part people are buying cryptos, not as a store of value or a form of currency, but for asset appreciation, which would definitely classify them as securities.
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Well, you know what they say about a fool and his money...clearly Mr Okung is not working with an advisor acting as a fiduciary for him. No one would recommend he put so much of his net worth into such a volatile asset. Especially when his career and ability to make the money he's making could end on the next snap.
My firm doesn't allow us to buy any form of crypto for our clients, but of course we have clients that ask about it. I tell them it's okay to take a SMALL position if they want to, but it could very easily end up worthless some day.
Nothing is stopping the SEC from labeling any of the cryptos as a security, in which case they would get slammed, just like what happened to Ripple. I do know XRP is different from ETH and BTC in that it is actually issued by a company and not a decentralized form of currency, but the SEC has a very broad definition of what is a security and I think for the most part people are buying cryptos, not as a store of value or a form of currency, but for asset appreciation, which would definitely classify them as securities.
You're going to hate hearing about these new fangled horseless carriages.
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Since I'm the OP, I thought I'd jump in here.
I'm sad to say I never bought into any cryptos. Until yesterday. Sure, I have a bit of FOMO.. But I'm now investing what I can afford to lose. Obviously I won't be making near the gains as if I had started back in 2017, but I'm just gonna purchase and hold and see where it gets me.
A guy I follow says 10% of net worth should be in cryptos. I'm not anywhere near that number and am not shooting for it
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I will most likely never invest in cryptos. Too volatile for my taste.
I can reach all of my financial goals without it. I have no FOMO.
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I will most likely never invest in cryptos. Too volatile for my taste.
I can reach all of my financial goals without it. I have no FOMO.
Is Tesla volatile?
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Seeing how this has moved historically, I wouldn’t be surprised to see $30,000 by Jan 1, and then a pull back closer to $23,000
hit $33,099.90 for sure at about 9:33 am this morning. sitting at $32,500. i'd love for it to drop to $23k. i was watching it at $18-19 hoping for $16-17k...my basis has been $13k so far, so i have some room to play and only a couple grand invested so this is just kinda for fun. even more fun when it goes up though
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Is Tesla volatile?
I certainly wouldn't expect a 900% yearly return ever again.
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39250 currently.
Doubled in a month.
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39250 currently.
Doubled in a month.
I think bitcoin is the epitome of the irrational aspects of investing right now.
It isn't based really on anything. Just wild speculation/gambling. People with excess cash looking for the next "big runup." Mostly a lot of people with excess cash trying to strike it rich, because they heard a friend make a big profit off x in just 2-weeks.
What happens when the fed stops providing all the free easy cash?
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Nothing is stopping the SEC from labeling any of the cryptos as a security, in which case they would get slammed, just like what happened to Ripple. I do know XRP is different from ETH and BTC in that it is actually issued by a company and not a decentralized form of currency, but the SEC has a very broad definition of what is a security and I think for the most part people are buying cryptos, not as a store of value or a form of currency, but for asset appreciation, which would definitely classify them as securities.
My hot take is that cryptos should be classified as a security, because the bolded is an oxymoron. The very essence of what makes curency currency is that it is issued by a centralized body, and is subject to the political whims of that issuer. For better or worse the strength and forecasts for currency is a proxy for the political and economic conditions of the country (or theoretically NGO) issuing it. Something isn't currency becuase you can buy stuff with it - that is just trade, and it doesn't make either side of a deal currency. Bitcoins are generated on an equation that gradually reduces the number of bitcoins that are issued until they cease to be issued. That's not currency, that's an artificially created resource to which we have decided to attribute value. That is a security.
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I think bitcoin is the epitome of the irrational aspects of investing right now.
It isn't based really on anything. Just wild speculation/gambling. People with excess cash looking for the next "big runup." Mostly a lot of people with excess cash trying to strike it rich, because they heard a friend make a big profit off x in just 2-weeks.
What happens when the fed stops providing all the free easy cash?
Incorrect. Institutions are buying. Didn't take you for someone who comments without due diligence.
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Incorrect. Institutions are buying. Didn't take you for someone who comments without due diligence.
I probably shouldn't have posted in this thread. It was merely an opinion.
I'm not known for my investing knowledge or prowess and I reserve the right to be absurdly wrong.
That said, I should probably have stopped with "people with excess cash". Institutions are part of that group.
I still think there will be a problem when the fed stops backstopping the market, and they have to unwind all their debt. The question is when that occurs.
COI statement: I am selling all my bitcoin.
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My hot take is that cryptos should be classified as a security, because the bolded is an oxymoron. The very essence of what makes curency currency is that it is issued by a centralized body, and is subject to the political whims of that issuer. For better or worse the strength and forecasts for currency is a proxy for the political and economic conditions of the country (or theoretically NGO) issuing it. Something isn't currency becuase you can buy stuff with it - that is just trade, and it doesn't make either side of a deal currency. Bitcoins are generated on an equation that gradually reduces the number of bitcoins that are issued until they cease to be issued. That's not currency, that's an artificially created resource to which we have decided to attribute value. That is a security.
What? I'm not sure you understand what currency is. Was the USD a security under the gold standard? Is the Dash that Venezuelans use as currency everyday, somehow not currency?
Currency must only be:
Scarce
Fungible
Divisible
Durable
Transferable
Cryptos are all of those. Ask the Hungarians in 1946 if their currency was worth the paper it was printed on... or the Germans in 1923... or Zimbabweans all the way back in 2008. Hell, the Fed has been printed 22% of the total circulation in 2020 alone.
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I probably shouldn't have posted in this thread. It was merely an opinion.
I'm not known for my investing knowledge or prowess and I reserve the right to be absurdly wrong.
That said, I should probably have stopped with "people with excess cash". Institutions are part of that group.
I still think there will be a problem when the fed stops backstopping the market, and they have to unwind all their debt. The question is when that occurs.
COI statement: I am selling all my bitcoin.
That I don't totally disagree with. I'm not sure that the fed backstopping the market is going to crush BTC. Personally, I think we will see USD inflation get out of control and BTC is a hedge against this. The USD is the world's reserve currency... and it is backed by faith in the US govt and its military (if we're being totally honest). If the world loses confidence in the USD, where will it look to replace the USD as the world reserve currency? Who is the most stable government in the world that isn't the US? China? England? Eurozone? Hard question to answer. Either way, when my dollarydoos start to be worth less and less in comparison to other currencies I would like to have an option. BTC is the option for me.
Also, congrats on your gains!
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What? I'm not sure you understand what currency is. Was the USD a security under the gold standard? Is the Dash that Venezuelans use as currency everyday, somehow not currency?
Currency must only be:
Scarce
Fungible
Divisible
Durable
Transferable
Cryptos are all of those. Ask the Hungarians in 1946 if their currency was worth the paper it was printed on... or the Germans in 1923... or Zimbabweans all the way back in 2008. Hell, the Fed has been printed 22% of the total circulation in 2020 alone.
I should have been more specific. I was responding to a post about SEC regulation. Anything can be used as currency. And the value of those currencies rises and falls vis a vis other currencies. But the fact that cryptocurrency bears that title and can be used as a means of exchange doesn't and shouldn't preclude it from being deemed a security. Trading in cryptos is a lot different than say, forex trades, and I think cryptos benefit from a widespread failure to appreciate the difference.
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I should have been more specific. I was responding to a post about SEC regulation. Anything can be used as currency. And the value of those currencies rises and falls vis a vis other currencies. But the fact that cryptocurrency bears that title and can be used as a means of exchange doesn't and shouldn't preclude it from being deemed a security. Trading in cryptos is a lot different than say, forex trades, and I think cryptos benefit from a widespread failure to appreciate the difference.
What Is a Security?
The term "security" refers to a fungible, negotiable financial instrument that holds some type of monetary value. It represents an ownership position in a publicly-traded corporation via stock; a creditor relationship with a governmental body or a corporation represented by owning that entity's bond; or rights to ownership as represented by an option.
Where is the publicly traded stock? Which governmental body or corporation? Where are the rights to ownership as an option? Cryptos are non-governmental backed currency.
I am self taught in finances, and my knowledge of a lot of this stuff is somewhat basic... but you don't need to dunk to be able to watch basketball. You're clearly a knowledgeable dude regarding financial legality, etc... but I think there is a extreme lack of knowledge about what cryptos are, and there are a lot of people who like to listen to 'traditional' sources regarding crypto and take them as gospel. But cryptos are a relatively new idea, and I think that a lot of those 'traditional' experts have made comments about cryptos without educating themselves about it.
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Hards, you play pretty fast and loose with the term 'currency'
Until the price of things are pegged in BTC instead of USD (or another real currency) then BTC is just a medium of exchange... just like it was designed to be.
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Hards, you play pretty fast and loose with the term 'currency'
Until the price of things are pegged in BTC instead of USD (or another real currency) then BTC is just a medium of exchange... just like it was designed to be.
Not really, you can buy plenty of things in BTC currently. Some people have lived off of their BTC for years. You can't spend it at Walgreens, but you can't spend Euros at Walgreens either.
I'm not playing fast and loose with it at all.
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Not really, you can buy plenty of things in BTC currently. Some people have lived off of their BTC for years. You can't spend it at Walgreens, but you can't spend Euros at Walgreens either.
I'm not playing fast and loose with it at all.
I don't disagree. My point is that things purchasable with BTC have their value pegged in USD.
Thing A is $30, and purchasable with BTC or via normal means. Thing A is never pegged to 0.00075 Bitcoin.
That's like me asking for either $30 or $30 of water for Thing A. Both Bitcoin, and any other good, could be a means of exchange. The currency they are pegged to, though, is USD. There's a reason that so many stablecoins exist.
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I don't disagree. My point is that things purchasable with BTC have their value pegged in USD.
Thing A is $30, and purchasable with BTC or via normal means. Thing A is never pegged to 0.00075 Bitcoin.
That's like me asking for either $30 or $30 of water for Thing A. Both Bitcoin, and any other good, could be a means of exchange. The currency they are pegged to, though, is USD. There's a reason that so many stablecoins exist.
That's fair, but not fully accurate either. There are folks out there who would take more (or less) BTC for the sale of a house than they would using USD.
Also, using your example, couldn't I just replace BTC with Eurobucks or British Pounds?? What if I changed to something more volatile, such as Turkish Lira? Sure, the price is set in USD, but it is set in USD as a conversion of the other currency... but I'd be willing to bet you'd rather have BTC in your possession over Turkish Lira.
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Torture....
https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1349003444217065479?s=21 (https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1349003444217065479?s=21)
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Torture....
https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1349003444217065479?s=21 (https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1349003444217065479?s=21)
He isn't alone, there are millions of BTC that have been eliminated from the supply over the years because of similar mistakes.
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Thank you, Elon
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Market cap of BTC is now over $1T USD
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carried over $56,000 today
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👀
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👀
Still up more than 10x from a year ago. People are easily spooked. People talked about diamond hands in regards to GME stock? I've watch my BTC go from a couple thousand to a couple hundred thousand and back down. If I thought this was a get rich quick thing, I'd have considered selling. But my number is much higher.
BTW, get your Ethereum while it's still cheap.
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Thank you, Elon
Heh, he's a scum bag, really. Saying he won't be accepting BTC for Tesla's currently is such a hedge. He can affect the price this way, and then when BTC drops to where it is he can start accepting again. So instead of a 3 costing 1/2 a BTC, it costs one BTC now. And his hope is that in the long run that buy looks really foolish for the Tesla buyer, and genius for Elon.
He's just playing the game, really. But he has a TON of sycophants that don't know when they're being played, and think that Elon can do no wrong... which is hilarious. He is as capable of putting his foot in his mouth as anyone (see Covid) but when he does it, it affects financial markets worldwide. Talk about tangible power. All hail the Corporatocracy!
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Still up more than 10x from a year ago. People are easily spooked. People talked about diamond hands in regards to GME stock? I've watch my BTC go from a couple thousand to a couple hundred thousand and back down. If I thought this was a get rich quick thing, I'd have considered selling. But my number is much higher.
Indeed, if one still believes in Bitcoin, one should be buying now.
Cathie Wood said again yesterday that she thinks it's going to $500K ... though her calls lately haven't exactly been golden.
Disclosure: I am not a crypto investor.
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82
Cathie Wood might end up being right. I am holding on and trying not to follow the crazy ups and downs.
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Heh, he's a scum bag, really. Saying he won't be accepting BTC for Tesla's currently is such a hedge. He can affect the price this way, and then when BTC drops to where it is he can start accepting again. So instead of a 3 costing 1/2 a BTC, it costs one BTC now. And his hope is that in the long run that buy looks really foolish for the Tesla buyer, and genius for Elon.
He's just playing the game, really. But he has a TON of sycophants that don't know when they're being played, and think that Elon can do no wrong... which is hilarious. He is as capable of putting his foot in his mouth as anyone (see Covid) but when he does it, it affects financial markets worldwide. Talk about tangible power. All hail the Corporatocracy!
We know he manipulated the market up after he took a big position, then sold some in order to make his quarterly numbers.
Then he talked it down (won't accept it for purchases, too costly environmentally) before talking it back up (diamond hands). Question is, did he buy more in between those two statements?
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BUY THE DIP
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We know he manipulated the market up after he took a big position, then sold some in order to make his quarterly numbers.
Then he talked it down (won't accept it for purchases, too costly environmentally) before talking it back up (diamond hands). Question is, did he buy more in between those two statements?
I'd bet the farm that he did.
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We know he manipulated the market up after he took a big position, then sold some in order to make his quarterly numbers.
Then he talked it down (won't accept it for purchases, too costly environmentally) before talking it back up (diamond hands). Question is, did he buy more in between those two statements?
I'm sure he did. Not regulated the way stocks are, so he can get away with it.
I'm sure that will change soon though.
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I'm sure he did. Not regulated the way stocks are, so he can get away with it.
I'm sure that will change soon though.
*doubt*
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Agreed on all posts, Hards
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I'd bet the farm that he did.
Me too. And he is laughing all the way.
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https://itsblockchain.com/bitcoin-whale-bought-3521-bitcoins/
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That should cover Tesla's next shortfall.
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Question for the SEC experts...
Ok so even though manipulating the price of bitcoin by an individual is not illegal, since bitcoin is largely unregulated...
What about a publicly traded company (like Tesla) benefitting from such manipulation, to the extent that it impacts profitability and stock price?
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Question for the SEC experts...
Ok so even though manipulating the price of bitcoin by an individual is not illegal, since bitcoin is largely unregulated...
What about a publicly traded company (like Tesla) benefitting from such manipulation, to the extent that it impacts profitability and stock price?
Not an SEC expert, but I think thats too hard to prove without explicit evidence that they are behind it. Its scummy, but thats part of the genius behind it all IMO.
If I'm a copper pipe manufacturer and there is widespread manipulation in the price of copper that it plummets and I buy a bunch allowing my costs to dive down for a time, my profitability to rise, and my stock to pop, why should I be punished? Even if those who manipulated the copper are prosecuted and fined.
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Not an SEC expert, but I think thats too hard to prove without explicit evidence that they are behind it. Its scummy, but thats part of the genius behind it all IMO.
If I'm a copper pipe manufacturer and there is widespread manipulation in the price of copper that it plummets and I buy a bunch allowing my costs to dive down for a time, my profitability to rise, and my stock to pop, why should I be punished? Even if those who manipulated the copper are prosecuted and fined.
Right, Musk hasn't be fined because there isn't enough to charge him on. My guess is that he'll push it too far one day and the new line for what can be gotten away with will be established.
As you know, with him, there is a rather large rebellious side.
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Right, Musk hasn't be fined because there isn't enough to charge him on. My guess is that he'll push it too far one day and the new line for what can be gotten away with will be established.
As you know, with him, there is a rather large rebellious side.
His fine amounts to a tiny tax on the billions made from him simply frontrunning his own tweets. By no means enough of a disincentive to make him stop.
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His fine amounts to a tiny tax on the billions made from him simply frontrunning his own tweets. By no means enough of a disincentive to make him stop.
An endemic problem with fining companies. It's never enough to make much of a difference.
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His fine amounts to a tiny tax on the billions made from him simply frontrunning his own tweets. By no means enough of a disincentive to make him stop.
A fine is only a punishment to the poor. To the wealthy it's a cost.
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A fine is only a punishment to the poor. To the wealthy it's a cost.
A corporate fine less than the profit is simply a tax
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We've hit on potential regulation of cryptos elsewhere in this thread and I though this article on the wash sale rules and recent BTC value plummet adds another interesting angle to that - https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/25/bitcoin-crash-opens-door-to-a-tax-loophole-for-investors.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/25/bitcoin-crash-opens-door-to-a-tax-loophole-for-investors.html)
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Here's some good news ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/07/us/politics/justice-department-colonial-pipeline-ransom.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210607&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=60096&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
The Justice Department said on Monday that it had recovered much of the ransom paid to hackers last month who shut down the computer systems of Colonial Pipeline, a critical pipeline operator.
Colonial had paid a ransom worth roughly $4.4 million in Bitcoin to the Russian hacking group DarkSide after it used ransomware, a form of malicious software, to hold up the company’s business networks in May. That payment cleared the way for Colonial to resume pumping fuel through its pipeline, which stretches from Texas to New Jersey and accounts for nearly half of all transport fuels that flow up the East Coast.
The seizure on Monday marked a first-of-its-kind effort by a new Justice Department task force to hijack a cybercriminal group’s profits through a hack of its Bitcoin wallet. The Justice Department said that it had seized 63.7 Bitcoins, currently valued at about $2.3 million. (The value of a Bitcoin has dropped over the past month.)
“Earlier today, the Department of Justice has found and recaptured the majority of the ransom Colonial paid to the DarkSide network,” the deputy attorney general, Lisa O. Monaco, said at a news conference Monday.
“Using technology to hold businesses, and even whole cities, hostage for profit is decidedly a 21st-century challenge, but the old adage, ‘follow the money,’ still applies,” Ms. Monaco said.
Officials said that they identified a virtual currency account, often referred to as a “wallet,” that DarkSide had use to collect payment from one of its ransomware victims, and that a magistrate judge in the Northern District of California had granted a warrant to seize funds from the wallet earlier in the day.
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edit: let's go Warriors.
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how much bitcoin did biden inc get for opening the russian nord stream while closing our keystone? but they claim he's never met with the smartest man of biden inc's business partners who essentially pulled this off. turns out, smartest man emails caught him using the big "N" word on his attorney who is white re: the baby moma he never knew as he kicks her off his health insurance as soon as his "child" he knew nothing about is born. how this is all happening while sleepy is napping? certainly sounds like impeachable offenses to me. wasn't he supposed to divest?
BDS! And no politics in the investing thread, please.
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BDS! And no politics in the investing thread, please.
That's rich, Masterlock.
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That's rich, Masterlock.
Lol.....
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Ziggy
That was a great post. The King of Locks is calling rocket out. Well done!
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Ziggy
King of Locks
Only on my Bagelz.
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Here's some good news ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/07/us/politics/justice-department-colonial-pipeline-ransom.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210607&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=60096&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
The Justice Department said on Monday that it had recovered much of the ransom paid to hackers last month who shut down the computer systems of Colonial Pipeline, a critical pipeline operator.
Colonial had paid a ransom worth roughly $4.4 million in Bitcoin to the Russian hacking group DarkSide after it used ransomware, a form of malicious software, to hold up the company’s business networks in May. That payment cleared the way for Colonial to resume pumping fuel through its pipeline, which stretches from Texas to New Jersey and accounts for nearly half of all transport fuels that flow up the East Coast.
The seizure on Monday marked a first-of-its-kind effort by a new Justice Department task force to hijack a cybercriminal group’s profits through a hack of its Bitcoin wallet. The Justice Department said that it had seized 63.7 Bitcoins, currently valued at about $2.3 million. (The value of a Bitcoin has dropped over the past month.)
“Earlier today, the Department of Justice has found and recaptured the majority of the ransom Colonial paid to the DarkSide network,” the deputy attorney general, Lisa O. Monaco, said at a news conference Monday.
“Using technology to hold businesses, and even whole cities, hostage for profit is decidedly a 21st-century challenge, but the old adage, ‘follow the money,’ still applies,” Ms. Monaco said.
Officials said that they identified a virtual currency account, often referred to as a “wallet,” that DarkSide had use to collect payment from one of its ransomware victims, and that a magistrate judge in the Northern District of California had granted a warrant to seize funds from the wallet earlier in the day.
LOL. I don't buy this explanation at all. Do you think there is a chance in hell that a group who is smart enough to hack major infrastructure in the US is too stupid to understand that keeping BTC on an exchange is a great way to lose their money?
What is more likely the case (and the chain shows it!) is that a group of dumbasses BOUGHT the ransomware from Darkside for a cut of the take. The dumbasses put their money on an exchange and had their assets siezed. Darkside got their cut and didn't put it on an exchange... which is why not all of the money was recovered.
Nothing was hacked, the criminals were just idiots. The DOJ should stop patting itself on the back, but you know... gotta keep up appearances.
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/el-salvador-becomes-first-country-to-approve-bitcoin-as-legal-tender-11623234476
Perfect. This is exactly what BTC can help. Unbanked people who are taken advantage of by remittance providers will benefit greatly from this.
Now this...
https://www.coindesk.com/volcano-powered-bitcoin-mining-goes-from-twitter-idea-to-state-policy-in-el-salvador
Hopefully, they can get this built asap.
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Musk tweets one thing about Bitcoin and the price tanks ... days later (or sometimes the same day), he tweets another thing about Bitcoin and the price soars. All the while, he's trading Bitcoin.
Hard to believe this is legal, but it apparently is. It certainly seems unethical, as if he cares.
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Musk tweets one thing about Bitcoin and the price tanks ... days later (or sometimes the same day), he tweets another thing about Bitcoin and the price soars. All the while, he's trading Bitcoin.
Hard to believe this is legal, but it apparently is. It certainly seems unethical, as if he cares.
When you stop trying to tie BTC to fiat you can realize that 1 BTC = 1 BTC.
Basically, if you're trying to day trade BTC, you're a damn fool.
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When you stop trying to tie BTC to fiat you can realize that 1 BTC = 1 BTC.
Basically, if you're trying to day trade BTC, you're a damn fool.
Lots a fools out there! But you already knew that.
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When you stop trying to tie BTC to fiat you can realize that 1 BTC = 1 BTC.
Basically, if you're trying to day trade BTC, you're a damn fool.
Not if you are Elon and can frontrun your tweets.
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Not if you are Elon and can frontrun your tweets.
I mean, there is a game to be played with all investments by watching the news or following financials.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45jjg5RqV5U
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I'm no crypto guy. Just relaying the Seeking Alpha blurb I received in my inbox today:
+++
The crypto has formed a death cross, meaning its average price over the last 50 days fell below that of its 200-day moving average. Overnight, Bitcoin (BTC-USD) slipped another 2.8% to $31,652, spooked by renewed crackdowns from China. Beijing even summoned officials from its largest banks and Alipay (BABA) to reiterate a ban on providing crypto services, a day after cracking down on mining operations in Sichuan. "It basically says now OTC transactions are not legitimate... we are not allowed by the banks to transfer money for cryptocurrency purchases and sales," said Bobby Lee, formerly CEO of BTC China, China's first Bitcoin exchange.
+++
"Death cross" never sounds good to me. So, cryptoheads ... is this as bad as it sounds, or just noise ... and a buying opportunity?
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I mean, there is a game to be played with all investments by watching the news or following financials.
(sorry, delayed response)...The difference is that Elon is not watching the news, he's making his trades and then creating the news. Its obvious market manipulation, but it appears that it is not illegal because he is playing in an unregulated area.
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I'm no crypto guy. Just relaying the Seeking Alpha blurb I received in my inbox today:
+++
The crypto has formed a death cross, meaning its average price over the last 50 days fell below that of its 200-day moving average. Overnight, Bitcoin (BTC-USD) slipped another 2.8% to $31,652, spooked by renewed crackdowns from China. Beijing even summoned officials from its largest banks and Alipay (BABA) to reiterate a ban on providing crypto services, a day after cracking down on mining operations in Sichuan. "It basically says now OTC transactions are not legitimate... we are not allowed by the banks to transfer money for cryptocurrency purchases and sales," said Bobby Lee, formerly CEO of BTC China, China's first Bitcoin exchange.
+++
"Death cross" never sounds good to me. So, cryptoheads ... is this as bad as it sounds, or just noise ... and a buying opportunity?
Here is the thing, it's never going to zero, and it has a chance of being a better way of transacting financially. This will always cause fear, uncertainty and doubt. Now think about every financial institution flexing their power to push the FUD, because their very survival is at odds with crypto, blockchain, defi, etc. This is a fundamental flipping of their table, and they will use any and all means to stop it.
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I'm no crypto guy. Just relaying the Seeking Alpha blurb I received in my inbox today:
+++
The crypto has formed a death cross, meaning its average price over the last 50 days fell below that of its 200-day moving average. Overnight, Bitcoin (BTC-USD) slipped another 2.8% to $31,652, spooked by renewed crackdowns from China. Beijing even summoned officials from its largest banks and Alipay (BABA) to reiterate a ban on providing crypto services, a day after cracking down on mining operations in Sichuan. "It basically says now OTC transactions are not legitimate... we are not allowed by the banks to transfer money for cryptocurrency purchases and sales," said Bobby Lee, formerly CEO of BTC China, China's first Bitcoin exchange.
+++
"Death cross" never sounds good to me. So, cryptoheads ... is this as bad as it sounds, or just noise ... and a buying opportunity?
Crypto aside, the "Death Cross" is a technical chart pattern.
Some people believe that they can look at charts and tell which way the price of a currency/stock/coin is going to move. This is a common human problem where we see patterns and try to ascribe value/meaning to those patterns. This pattern recognition in humans is part of why we're so capable, but when it comes to guessing the future price of equities (or cypto) has the same value as astrology.
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Crypto aside, the "Death Cross" is a technical chart pattern.
Some people believe that they can look at charts and tell which way the price of a currency/stock/coin is going to move. This is a common human problem where we see patterns and try to ascribe value/meaning to those patterns. This pattern recognition in humans is part of why we're so capable, but when it comes to guessing the future price of equities (or cypto) has the same value as astrology.
I did not mean to suggest that I had never heard of "death cross" before. I agree with you that charting has about the same value as astrology, but I do know what death cross, 50-day moving averages, etc, are.
I hadn't heard it used along with crypto, but I don't really follow crypto at all.
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I did not mean to suggest that I had never heard of "death cross" before. I agree with you that charting has about the same value as astrology, but I do know what death cross, 50-day moving averages, etc, are.
I hadn't heard it used along with crypto, but I don't really follow crypto at all.
BTC went from 20k to 3k. Then to 60k. It's volatility is well known. Dropping to 60k from 30k is not a death knell.
I just observe the motivations of those who write the articles predicting BTC's demise. And then I note that they've all been wrong so far.
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BTC went from 20k to 3k. Then to 60k. It's volatility is well known. Dropping to 60k from 30k is not a death knell.
I just observe the motivations of those who write the articles predicting BTC's demise. And then I note that they've all been wrong so far.
Fair enough. Good luck!
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BTC went from 20k to 3k. Then to 60k. It's volatility is well known. Dropping to 60k from 30k is not a death knell.
I just observe the motivations of those who write the articles predicting BTC's demise. And then I note that they've all been wrong so far.
To me the FUD is as annoying as the lunatics screaming in Miami a few weeks ago. It’s not going to $250K by EOY, but then again, it’s not plummeting to zero either.
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To me the FUD is as annoying as the lunatics screaming in Miami a few weeks ago. It’s not going to $250K by EOY, but then again, it’s not plummeting to zero either.
FUD vs Shills is an eternal conflict in crypto ;D
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Can someone explain to me how the volume of BTC can be 44.8 Billion, when there are only 21M bitcoins possible?
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Can someone explain to me how the volume of BTC can be 44.8 Billion, when there are only 21M bitcoins possible?
https://support.coinmarketcap.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043395912-Volume-Market-Pair-Cryptoasset-Exchange-Aggregate-
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https://support.coinmarketcap.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043395912-Volume-Market-Pair-Cryptoasset-Exchange-Aggregate-
Thanks, but that didn't help :). I am ignorant on this subject
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Thanks, but that didn't help :). I am ignorant on this subject
44.8 Billion dollars was the 24h volume... in dollars. The volume in BTC is 1,293,759 BTC. Take the price of BTC (roughly 33.4k) and multiply it by the traded BTC volume and you get about 44.8 billion dollars in volume.
Hope that helps
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Tangentially related....
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/23/john-mcafee-found-dead-after-spanish-court-oks-extradition-for-tax-crimes-.html
"Eccentric antivirus software company founder John McAfee was found dead of suspected suicide in his prison cell in Barcelona, Spain, on Wednesday, shortly after Spain’s National Court approved his extradition to the United States to face criminal tax evasion charges, Reuters and the Associated Press confirmed.
According to the indictment, McAfee earned millions of dollars in income from promoting cryptocurrencies, consulting work, speaking engagements, and selling the rights to his life story for a documentary."
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Tangentially related....
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/23/john-mcafee-found-dead-after-spanish-court-oks-extradition-for-tax-crimes-.html
"Eccentric antivirus software company founder John McAfee was found dead of suspected suicide in his prison cell in Barcelona, Spain, on Wednesday, shortly after Spain’s National Court approved his extradition to the United States to face criminal tax evasion charges, Reuters and the Associated Press confirmed.
According to the indictment, McAfee earned millions of dollars in income from promoting cryptocurrencies, consulting work, speaking engagements, and selling the rights to his life story for a documentary."
huh, I'd have thought he choked to death on his own dick.
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huh, I'd have thought he choked to death on his own dick.
Hasn't been ruled out yet as cause of death!
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This doesn’t sound good …
From the NYT:
The “Internet Computer” is an ambitious crypto project by the Dfinity Foundation, a Swiss nonprofit organization with big Silicon Valley backers like Andreessen Horowitz. Last month, it was the darling of the crypto world when it held a bonanza of an initial coin offering, valuing its token, known as ICP, at tens of billions of dollars in market cap. It’s a different story now, after ICP has lost more than 90 percent of its value.
Even in the famously volatile crypto market, ICP stands out. The stunning climb and crash has people asking what really happened — and who may have profited.
“Something went wrong,” said Miguel Morel of Arkham Intelligence, a crypto analysis firm that tracked ICP tokens through the blockchain. In a report shared with DealBook, Arkham noted that “a token dropping over 90 percent in the first month after launch is highly unusual.” Arkham said that it found 44 “probable insider addresses” that deposited 10 million ICP tokens worth over $2 billion at the time to exchanges, which coincided with significant drops in the price of ICP. Small investors were stuck with a complicated process and limited customer support, the report claimed.
“Dfinity did not follow the playbook of other successful projects,” Arkham’s report said. “Instead it appears they quietly allowed the treasury and insiders to send billions of dollars of ICP to exchanges, while making it extremely difficult for their longtime supporters to access the tokens they were promised.”
Dfinity blamed bad actors on social media for undermining its project. “Day traders with alternative agendas and unethical crypto projects have used Reddit and Twitter to confuse the public,” it said in a statement. It denied that the token claim process was overly technical, and said the investors who had difficulties got the support they needed. A Dfinity spokesman, Michael Lee, said that the company was taking the “high road” and focusing on developing its Internet Computer project rather than rumors by potential saboteurs.
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This doesn’t sound good …
From the NYT:
The “Internet Computer” is an ambitious crypto project by the Dfinity Foundation, a Swiss nonprofit organization with big Silicon Valley backers like Andreessen Horowitz. Last month, it was the darling of the crypto world when it held a bonanza of an initial coin offering, valuing its token, known as ICP, at tens of billions of dollars in market cap. It’s a different story now, after ICP has lost more than 90 percent of its value.
Even in the famously volatile crypto market, ICP stands out. The stunning climb and crash has people asking what really happened — and who may have profited.
“Something went wrong,” said Miguel Morel of Arkham Intelligence, a crypto analysis firm that tracked ICP tokens through the blockchain. In a report shared with DealBook, Arkham noted that “a token dropping over 90 percent in the first month after launch is highly unusual.” Arkham said that it found 44 “probable insider addresses” that deposited 10 million ICP tokens worth over $2 billion at the time to exchanges, which coincided with significant drops in the price of ICP. Small investors were stuck with a complicated process and limited customer support, the report claimed.
“Dfinity did not follow the playbook of other successful projects,” Arkham’s report said. “Instead it appears they quietly allowed the treasury and insiders to send billions of dollars of ICP to exchanges, while making it extremely difficult for their longtime supporters to access the tokens they were promised.”
Dfinity blamed bad actors on social media for undermining its project. “Day traders with alternative agendas and unethical crypto projects have used Reddit and Twitter to confuse the public,” it said in a statement. It denied that the token claim process was overly technical, and said the investors who had difficulties got the support they needed. A Dfinity spokesman, Michael Lee, said that the company was taking the “high road” and focusing on developing its Internet Computer project rather than rumors by potential saboteurs.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/2DZG5vENiP0Wc/giphy.gif)
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“Something went wrong,” said Miguel Morel of Arkham Intelligence, a crypto analysis firm that tracked ICP tokens through the blockchain. In a report shared with DealBook, Arkham noted that “a token dropping over 90 percent in the first month after launch is highly unusual.” Arkham said that it found 44 “probable insider addresses” that deposited 10 million ICP tokens worth over $2 billion at the time to exchanges, which coincided with significant drops in the price of ICP. Small investors were stuck with a complicated process and limited customer support, the report claimed.
“Dfinity did not follow the playbook of other successful projects,” Arkham’s report said. “Instead it appears they quietly allowed the treasury and insiders to send billions of dollars of ICP to exchanges, while making it extremely difficult for their longtime supporters to access the tokens they were promised.”
Oh, I don't know, it sounds to me like it worked exactly as intended.
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Perfect!
U.S. senator encourages people to buy Bitcoin for retirement
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3711103-us-senator-encourages-people-to-buy-bitcoin-for-retirement
U.S. Senator Cynthia Lummis (R.-Wyo.) said Tuesday that she encourages average investors to purchase Bitcoin as part of their retirement strategy.
Speaking at the CNBC Financial Advisor Summit, Lummis also pushed for the Federal Reserve to launch its own digital currency. She argued that this would help keep the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency.
Detailing her Bitcoin investment advice, Lummis advocated the strategy as a hedge against inflation, saying "there's no way we cannot debase" the U.S. dollar over time.
As to her own holdings, Lummis said she had five Bitcoin. She said she bought her first one for $330 in 2013. "For me, I see bitcoin as a great store of value," she said. "I buy bitcoin and I hold bitcoin."
Lummis described Bitcoin holdings as a good way to diversify a retirement portfolio.
"I don’t want everybody putting all their money in Bitcoin just like I don’t want everybody putting it in dollars and putting it under a mattress," she said. "I like diversification."
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Perfect!
U.S. senator encourages people to buy Bitcoin for retirement
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3711103-us-senator-encourages-people-to-buy-bitcoin-for-retirement
U.S. Senator Cynthia Lummis (R.-Wyo.) said Tuesday that she encourages average investors to purchase Bitcoin as part of their retirement strategy.
Speaking at the CNBC Financial Advisor Summit, Lummis also pushed for the Federal Reserve to launch its own digital currency. She argued that this would help keep the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency.
Detailing her Bitcoin investment advice, Lummis advocated the strategy as a hedge against inflation, saying "there's no way we cannot debase" the U.S. dollar over time.
As to her own holdings, Lummis said she had five Bitcoin. She said she bought her first one for $330 in 2013. "For me, I see bitcoin as a great store of value," she said. "I buy bitcoin and I hold bitcoin."
Lummis described Bitcoin holdings as a good way to diversify a retirement portfolio.
"I don’t want everybody putting all their money in Bitcoin just like I don’t want everybody putting it in dollars and putting it under a mattress," she said. "I like diversification."
I mean, she is absolutely right.
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I mean, she is absolutely right.
So you think it's good that an elected official (any politician, regardless of party) who has no more investing experience than you and I have advises people to make speculative investments (or any specific investment at all, even if not speculative)?
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So you think it's good that an elected official (any politician, regardless of party) who has no more investing experience than you and I have advises people to make speculative investments (or any specific investment at all, even if not speculative)?
She didn't "advise", she "encourages people". I see nothing that wrong with her statement. It wasn't legislation, it was her personal opinion on an investment vehicle in statements at a conference. There are far crazier voices out there about plenty of investment vehicles and she spoke about diversification. I dont think people are more likely to buy or invest based on their senator's thoughts than they are whatever random celebrity is high on Bitcoin or real estate
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She didn't "advise", she "encourages people". I see nothing that wrong with her statement. It wasn't legislation, it was her personal opinion on an investment vehicle in statements at a conference. There are far crazier voices out there about plenty of investment vehicles and she spoke about diversification. I dont think people are more likely to buy or invest based on their senator's thoughts than they are whatever random celebrity is high on Bitcoin or real estate
OK, Wags, this certainly isn't a hill I'm willing to die on. If you and Hards think politicians encouraging folks to buy specific investments is cool, then who am I to say otherwise? Have a good one.
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I think people should diversify into beanie babies. Buy and hodl.
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OK, Wags, this certainly isn't a hill I'm willing to die on. If you and Hards think politicians encouraging folks to buy specific investments is cool, then who am I to say otherwise? Have a good one.
I guess it just comes down to a free will question. There are so many voices out there, with varying levels of character and credibility, encouraging or even down right commanding people to buy this, invest that, etc…that if you can’t make decisions on your own and need your Senator to validate ideas, welp.
Would you have an issue if she, again at a financial summit, stated her belief that the SPY would continue to rise for the next 5 years due to job growth/economics/trade or what have you, being that this was a discussion, and she would encourage people to not be afraid to invest in equities?
If yes, then fair enough, but variations of that happen all the time from elected officials. Bitcoin is just touchy right now
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I guess it just comes down to a free will question. There are so many voices out there, with varying levels of character and credibility, encouraging or even down right commanding people to buy this, invest that, etc…that if you can’t make decisions on your own and need your Senator to validate ideas, welp.
Would you have an issue if she, again at a financial summit, stated her belief that the SPY would continue to rise for the next 5 years due to job growth/economics/trade or what have you, being that this was a discussion, and she would encourage people to not be afraid to invest in equities?
If yes, then fair enough, but variations of that happen all the time from elected officials. Bitcoin is just touchy right now
I would rather elected officials not make specific investing advice, yes. “Buy equities” is borderline IMHO. Buy a specific stock or a specific crypto … for me, personally, I’d rather they not do that.
For one thing, they are beholden to all manner of outside influences. A U.S. senator has a LOT of power, and a lot of real, perceived or potential conflicts of interest.
But yes, ultimately, each investor is in charge of his or her own portfolio. I can’t dispute that.
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OK, Wags, this certainly isn't a hill I'm willing to die on. If you and Hards think politicians encouraging folks to buy specific investments is cool, then who am I to say otherwise? Have a good one.
Lol, I wonder if someone with a (D) in front of their name had said this you'd have thought it was so bad.
She literally said that she doesn't believe in the dollar long term due to it's inflationary nature. She didn't say throw all of your money at bitcoin. In fact, there are more than a few financial advisors that recommend 5% in crypto. Would you have even thought this was newsworthy if she suggested that the average investor purchase ETFs, MFs, stocks or bonds? No, of course not. So why does it matter if she suggests BTC as a hedge against the dollar? That is simple portfolio diversification.
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I would rather elected officials not make specific investing advice, yes. “Buy equities” is borderline IMHO. Buy a specific stock or a specific crypto … for me, personally, I’d rather they not do that.
For one thing, they are beholden to all manner of outside influences. A U.S. senator has a LOT of power, and a lot of real, perceived or potential conflicts of interest.
But yes, ultimately, each investor is in charge of his or her own portfolio. I can’t dispute that.
I think you're vastly overestimating the power of 90% of US politicians. She said this and BTC moved the exact same way it has for the past couple of weeks. Laterally.
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Lol, I wonder if someone with a (D) in front of their name had said this you'd have thought it was so bad.
I would have said the exact same.
And I’m not a Democrat.
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The TBT tournament is giving away Bitcoin this year to fans who pick the winning team.
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The Rally (https://rally.io/creator) project just landed Felicia Day as a Creator. She spun up the creator coin $GEEX last week and just launched it publically on her twitter to support her new creative empire. The last empire she launched, Geek & Sundry, was acquired by an entertainment company. This new ecosystem consists of her Twitch stream and a few podcasts. I figured I'd throw a few hundred dollars at $GEEX because she has a good track record as a creative, but also as a way to force myself to better understand this project. It is a direct competitor to Patreon and will allow creators to exert some control over their community's economy, as well as allowing their community to participate in the economy.
Rally is an ETH sidechain. The Rally project allows Creators to create coins on their network... how creator coins are connected to $RLY via the Rally project is where my understanding fades
From the FAQ - https://rally.io/evergreen/faq
> The relationship between Coin and $RLY is defined by a Token Bonding Curve (TBC) that relates the circulating supply of Coins to its price in $RLY. The TBC acts as the underlying mechanism for an AMM (automated market maker) to facilitate buying and selling and the overall relationship between a Coin’s supply and its price.
We'll see.
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And... China makes crypto illegal
https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/24/china-says-all-cryptocurrency-related-transactions-are-illegal/
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And... China makes crypto illegal
https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/24/china-says-all-cryptocurrency-related-transactions-are-illegal/
*yawn* They did this on the 15th.
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Let me grab something to dry all the tears I'm shedding on behalf of criminals and greedy rubes who got burned in the Tulip Panic.
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Let me grab something to dry all the tears I'm shedding on behalf of criminals and greedy rubes who got burned in the Tulip Panic.
You do realize that the USD is used in the commission of far more crimes.
And that the CCP has 'banned' crypto like 10 times already.
right?
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approaching ATH
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approaching ATH
And boom goes the dynamite
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all of my uranium is up up up...ccj has more than doubled, dnn and urg 4x
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A fairly long article from a harsh critic of crypto.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/05/why-this-computer-scientist-says-all-cryptocurrency-should-die-in-a-fire/
If you are pro-crypto, where is this guy wrong in your opinion?
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A fairly long article from a harsh critic of crypto.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/05/why-this-computer-scientist-says-all-cryptocurrency-should-die-in-a-fire/
If you are pro-crypto, where is this guy wrong in your opinion?
Fantastic, in depth article. Thanks for sharing.
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A fairly long article from a harsh critic of crypto.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/05/why-this-computer-scientist-says-all-cryptocurrency-should-die-in-a-fire/
If you are pro-crypto, where is this guy wrong in your opinion?
Yes, thanks for sharing. I didn't fully understood what mining was all about until reading this article.
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Ethereum co-founder says every ‘average smallholder’ impacted by Terra’s stablecoin crash should be made whole, cites FDIC’s $250,000 as ‘precedent’
https://fortune.com/2022/05/15/ethereum-founder-vitalik-buterin-terra-ust-stablecoin-investors-should-be-made-whole-fdic/
The libertarians suddenly want the government to come to their rescue...but they probably still don't want any regulations.
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Ethereum co-founder says every ‘average smallholder’ impacted by Terra’s stablecoin crash should be made whole, cites FDIC’s $250,000 as ‘precedent’
https://fortune.com/2022/05/15/ethereum-founder-vitalik-buterin-terra-ust-stablecoin-investors-should-be-made-whole-fdic/
The libertarians suddenly want the government to come to their rescue...but they probably still don't want any regulations.
Vitalik is a strange dude. Strongly disagree with him here... generally agree with him.
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A fairly long article from a harsh critic of crypto.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/05/why-this-computer-scientist-says-all-cryptocurrency-should-die-in-a-fire/
If you are pro-crypto, where is this guy wrong in your opinion?
He makes good points at times. I'm not 100% sold or in favor of crypto, but his insanely biased ranting sort of calls his opinion into question. Also, continuing to ground criticisms of crypto into drug dealers and pedophiles and other dark web criminals is a great way to seem like you're screaming at clouds.
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A fairly long article from a harsh critic of crypto.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/05/why-this-computer-scientist-says-all-cryptocurrency-should-die-in-a-fire/
If you are pro-crypto, where is this guy wrong in your opinion?
Jesus this is long. And there are glaring problems with his understanding of crypto and smart contracts. And I'm only 1/6 of the way in.
And now I'm 1/4 of the way through, and this is a terrible article. Either he has no fundamental understanding, or he is a terrible communicator, OR he has a major bias (It's this one) towards crypto in general.
He's just going through all the anti crypto talking points. I'll read the rest, but I can guess where this is going. He's going to conflate ALL crypto with Bitcoin, when it is convenient, and separate them when it works for him as well.
So Bitcoin burns that much of the world’s electricity to be able to process somewhere between three to seven transactions per second across the entire world.
I guess Nick has never heard of the Lightning Network that is attached to the BTC block chain that can process a million transactions per second.
So we’ve seen waves come and go of companies saying “We’ll accept payments in Bitcoin.” They’re lying. Because they aren’t actually accepting payments in Bitcoin. They are using a service that allows them to price in dollars, presents Bitcoin to the customer, transfers the Bitcoin, turns it into dollars, and so the merchant is getting actual money. Which means if the system has to balance and you want to buy with Bitcoin and you don’t have Bitcoin, you have to convert dollars to Bitcoin. And this is, by design, a horribly expensive process, because Bitcoin and the cryptocurrencies are fundamentally incompatible with modern finance.
Here he is taking a leap and saying that the business isn't retaining the bitcoins. His assumption is that they're instantly converted back to dollars.
Well, there are classes of payments that the intermediaries don’t allow. The big ones are drug dealing, child sexual abuse material, and ransoms. As a consequence, the cryptocurrency actually used for payments is really only used seriously for: ransomware payments, where companies have to pay $10 million. Drug deals—drug dealers hate it, but it’s the only game in town. And we’ve had cases of websites selling child exploitation material paid with Bitcoin.
Amazing that none of these problems existed before January 2009!
So it doesn’t work for payments. And it doesn’t work economically either. It’s effectively a giant self-assembled Ponzi scheme. You hear about people making money in Bitcoin or cryptocurrency. They only make money because some other sucker lost more. This is very different from the stock market.
Bahahahahhahahahah.... So now crypto is like the stock market, and not like money. Which one is it? Can I show up to Starbucks and ask to pay in Amazon stock? Again, Nick seems to be very fluid with his definitions. Can I buy British Sterling today for 1.25 dollars per, and then tomorrow sell the SAME British sterling for 1.35 dollar per? Could I do this with gold? Silver? Wheat? You know why this works? Because I've made money while some sucker lost more. What an absolute clown.
Actually, I'm not going to read the rest of this dog sh!it. It's terrible, and the expert is intentionally misleading. I'd be willing to bet he either has written a book, or has a book on the way about the topic... either way, I saw from his twitter that he is leaving Berkley at the end of the year. I'm sure he'll end up as the "Anti-crypto" guy on a number of TV segments and make his money that way.
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Bahahahahhahahahah.... So now crypto is like the stock market, and not like money. Which one is it? Can I show up to Starbucks and ask to pay in Amazon stock? Again, Nick seems to be very fluid with his definitions. Can I buy British Sterling today for 1.25 dollars per, and then tomorrow sell the SAME British sterling for 1.35 dollar per? Could I do this with gold? Silver? Wheat? You know why this works? Because I've made money while some sucker lost more. What an absolute clown.
Appreciate your point of view, it isn't an area that I feel like I have an expert understanding in so I like to hear different viewpoints.
WRT "like the stock market", I think you misunderstood his point. He specifically said it's NOT like the stock market, and he said that in the context not of payments (i.e., he wasn't suggesting you could pay transactions in shares of stock), but rather that over time the stock market is accretive, whereas he believes crypto is a zero sum game, less very significant frictional costs.
Also, I don't think you can deny crypto is far more volatile than major currencies. Isn't that hugely problematic if it is to be used as a currency? Wheat, silver, and gold don't hold themselves out as currency; sure, you can use silver or gold coins, but even then you have to convert them to dollars before you can use them at Pic-N-Save.
Re payments, to the point both you are Wags raise, where is bitcoin or any other crypto actually being used for real world transactions (not NFTs) beyond the illicit uses the author points out? And in how much volume?
If you are telling me crypto is a store of value hedge like gold, I can sort of understand that. If you are telling me it is a currency, I remain unconvinced.
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Also, I don't think you can deny crypto is far more volatile than major currencies. Isn't that hugely problematic if it is to be used as a currency? Wheat, silver, and gold don't hold themselves out as currency; sure, you can use silver or gold coins, but even then you have to convert them to dollars before you can use them at Pic-N-Save.
Obviously it is more volatile. It can be problematic for use as currency. But gasoline and other commodities are extremely volatile. Crude oil has nearly doubled in price from a year ago. Even Gold has increased in value by a third over the last four years. No one bats an eye about that. Crypto is the most volatile so it gets a bad name, I guess. The first BTC transaction was 10,000 BTC for some pizzas. But at that time no one thought BTC was worth anything. Current value is current value. In a period off months some world currencies (Zimbabwe dollar, for example) experienced hyperinflation and sent the value of their currency to basically zero. And this happened multiple times. If you feel it is okay to exchange one dollar for one gallon of milk (for example) and then next week due to economic conditions you agree to pay two dollars for the same gallon of milk... you're still exchanging currency for the same product... albeit more, but that is the agreement. Currency is only worth what we all agree it is worth. Always has been, always will be. If you believe this to the the bottom value of BTC relative to the dollar wouldn't you consider selling assets for BTC instead of dollars? Is it essentially gambling? Yup, but so is gambling. :P
Re payments, to the point both you are Wags raise, where is bitcoin or any other crypto actually being used for real world transactions (not NFTs) beyond the illicit uses the author points out? And in how much volume?
If you are telling me crypto is a store of value hedge like gold, I can sort of understand that. If you are telling me it is a currency, I remain unconvinced.
There are a ton of transactions every day on the bitcoin blockchain that don't involve crimes. People buy and sell property... and the most important thing is a remittance payment. Think of it like Western Union, but without the middle men jacking up the price. There is a local (two locations) jewelry store in Madison that accepts bitcoin for their items. I am unsure of the volume of transactions that are not illicit. Tracking such a thing is difficult unless you know both the seller and the buyer's wallet addresses. I doubt anyone tracks it.
Bitcoin is both a store of value and a currency. Money must be fungible, durable, divisible, portable, acceptable (probably BTC's biggest hurdle), uniform, and limited in supply (US dollar's largest hurdle).
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... and the most important thing is a remittance payment. Think of it like Western Union, but without the middle men jacking up the price.
So let me drill down on this one a bit. I can Venmo or Zelle pretty much anyone with near zero frictional cost. I can electronically move money back and forth between my bank and my brokerage, with the only cost being time since the transaction posts overnight.
How is bitcoin better from a remittance perspective? Doesn't it have greater frictional costs?
(I appreciate that WU has much higher costs as 1) it's for-profit, 2) it has fraud protection and money-laundering requirements to adhere to, and 3) WU transactions are reversible if there is fraud or error).
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So let me drill down on this one a bit. I can Venmo or Zelle pretty much anyone with near zero frictional cost. I can electronically move money back and forth between my bank and my brokerage, with the only cost being time since the transaction posts overnight.
How is bitcoin better from a remittance perspective? Doesn't it have greater frictional costs?
(I appreciate that WU has much higher costs as 1) it's for-profit, 2) it has fraud protection and money-laundering requirements to adhere to, and 3) WU transactions are reversible if there is fraud or error).
Domestically, but once you move outside of that, not so much. For example, I know people in Asia that US bank accounts specifically for being able to Venmo/Zelle when they are in NYC or LA for work, cause otherwise they are unable.
Also, there are value caps. $50-100 sure. But when you are trying to send someone $5000, then Venmo/Zelle are an issue.
Real world example, my wife's best friend and her husband rent a very nice house in NJ. The monthly rent is substantial. Her husband pays their rent monthly in Bitcoin to the owner who since relocated back home to the UK. Cheaper, faster, and less difficulty than wiring.
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What Wags said.
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Thanks, guys, you raise a good point re the amount limits on Zelle/Venmo. I think PayPal and Apple Pay have much higher limits though, correct?
Anyway, interesting articles below from Sam Brinkman-Fried.
Original comments:
FTX boss Sam Bankman-Fried believes bitcoin has no future as a payments network, because its 'proof of work' system means it can't scale up
https://news.yahoo.com/ftx-boss-sam-bankman-fried-102930511.html
Revisions after he got some pushback:
Sam Bankman-Fried says Bitcoin actually could have a future as money or a payments network—but there’s a catch
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sam-bankman-fried-says-bitcoin-165522217.html
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Prices of Bitcoin (and other crypto) going into the toilet.
It's hurting not only individual investors but corporations that invested big too -- like Tesla, which bought an estimated $1.5B in early 2021, at what Bloomberg estimated an average price of $34,700.
Still disappointed that Fidelity decided to start offering crypto to 401k investors, most of whom don't follow the market very closely.
I have no horse in the crypto race -- never owned any and probably never will. But I know a lot of people who do, and I hope they get out of it whole. A lot of them have owned some since it was dirt cheap, but many have averaged up over the years and were still buying at well over $50K.
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Prices of Bitcoin (and other crypto) going into the toilet.
It's hurting not only individual investors but corporations that invested big too -- like Tesla, which bought an estimated $1.5B in early 2021, at what Bloomberg estimated an average price of $34,700.
Still disappointed that Fidelity decided to start offering crypto to 401k investors, most of whom don't follow the market very closely.
I have no horse in the crypto race -- never owned any and probably never will. But I know a lot of people who do, and I hope they get out of it whole. A lot of them have owned some since it was dirt cheap, but many have averaged up over the years and were still buying at well over $50K.
I've always felt crypto was kind of worthless, and a scam. Some people are losing their shirts a bit now, and I think we are no where near the bottom on that end.
Heard some talk of a bailout for Crypto.
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And how about Celcius, one of the largest crypto lending platforms, pausing all withdrawals this morning. And Binance, the world's largest crypto exchange, halting Bitcoin withdrawals for a spell.
Isn't one of the supposed benefits of crypto that one can do what one wants with them pretty much any time without interference from government, the private sector, other individuals, etc?
So if all of a sudden you lose access to the crypto you have spent tens of thousands of dollars (or more) buying, isn't that a pretty big problem?
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Crypto.com, BlockFi plan to lay off employees as market downturn intensifies
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3848166-cryptocom-blockfi-plan-to-lay-off-employees-as-market-downturn-intensifies?lctg=60ab95209838154d2d2b6636&mailingid=28048559&messageid=wall_street_breakfast&serial=28048559.7673&userid=1115549&utm_campaign=WSB_6_13_22&utm_medium=email&utm_source=seeking_alpha&utm_term=wall_street_breakfast
EDIT: From NYT "DealBook" editor Andrew Ross Sorkin ...
The sudden suspension of withdrawals by the lending platform Celsius started a crypto market meltdown yesterday. Celsius works by lending out its customers’ Ethereum deposits to invest in decentralized finance projects and offering extreme yields, as high as 18 percent. But its high yields required another cryptocurrency, stETH, to maintain its close peg to Ethereum. The two became unglued. Late on Sunday, Celsius announced it was freezing withdrawals, prompting a sell-off that exacerbated the recent downward spiral of crypto prices in general.
More unsettling announcements soon followed. A Celsius competitor, BlockFi, said it was laying off 20 percent of its employees amid economic difficulties. The exchange Crypto.com said it would let go of about 260 employees for similar reasons. This morning, Coinbase C.E.O. Brian Armstrong announced that the crypto exchange would lay off 18 percent of its employees, or about 1,100 people. It has all left a strange hush over the usually lively crypto Twitter community and the celebrities who have promoted digital assets — including Matt Damon, who likened investing to space travel in an ad for Crypto.com last year and said “fortune favors the brave.”
“I refuse to believe Matt Damon was wrong about investing advice,” Aaron Levie, C.E.O. of the cloud computing company Box, mused on Twitter yesterday. But the brave were muted.
Who isn’t talking for a change?
The Tesla chief Elon Musk, an avid tweeter and crypto influencer, kept uncharacteristically mum on Monday. What was once $1.5 billion worth of Bitcoin in the company’s coffers has over time dwindled in value to about $965 million.
Michael Saylor, C.E.O. of the software company MicroStrategy, reiterated his faith in Bitcoin with an updated “laser eyes” profile picture, signifying steadfastness as he faced a double hit. Nearly $4 billion worth of Bitcoin in MicroStrategy’s treasury has fallen in value to below $3 billion, and the stock price has slumped ahead of a potential margin call should Bitcoin fall to $21,000.
Block’s C.E.O., Jack Dorsey, considered Bitcoin’s spiritual leader by many, faced his company’s Bitcoin investment losses of more than $40 million with contemplative silence.
As for all the other celebrities who have promoted crypto — LeBron James, Tom Brady, Kim Kardashian, Reese Witherspoon, Gwyneth Paltrow and Giselle Bunchen, to name just a few — they have been “mad silent,” as one Twitter user put it.
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And how about Celcius, one of the largest crypto lending platforms, pausing all withdrawals this morning. And Binance, the world's largest crypto exchange, halting Bitcoin withdrawals for a spell.
Isn't one of the supposed benefits of crypto that one can do what one wants with them pretty much any time without interference from government, the private sector, other individuals, etc?
So if all of a sudden you lose access to the crypto you have spent tens of thousands of dollars (or more) buying, isn't that a pretty big problem?
Yeah, that is odd. Makes it seem crypto is not an actual form of money, but some sort of Ponzi scheme.
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It's just an old fashioned bank run. They can only meet withdrawls if they have the liquidity to do so.
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Tesla and Block BoDs are useless sycophants. Block at least is tangentially related to crypto, Telsa not at all, yet both let their CEOs bet shareholders' value on rolls of the dice. Horrible governance; and yet, neither Elon nor Jack, nor either DoB will face any consequence.
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Isn't one of the supposed benefits of crypto that one can do what one wants with them pretty much any time without interference from government, the private sector, other individuals, etc?
My position on crypto is that I am personally anti, and won't invest directly myself for two reasons. One is that the environmental consequences (energy use) are philosophically repugnant to me. The second is that I think centralized currency's ties to government are a feature, not a bug. IMO, the infatuation with crypto's decentralization is a strange combo of libertarian immaturity and pseudo-religious technology worship.
That all being said, I'm probably a hypocrite because I also got my feet pretty wet investing in COIN after its IPO because I think crypto is here to stay in some form or fashion, and I'm a long term hold there despite the current market plunge.
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It's just an old fashioned bank run. They can only meet withdrawls if they have the liquidity to do so.
I am far from a crypto expert, but isn't one of the supreme advantages of crypto supposedly that it is better and more accessible than cash held in a bank? Correct me if I'm wrong. (I know you will.)
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I am far from a crypto expert, but isn't one of the supreme advantages of crypto supposedly that it is better and more accessible than cash held in a bank? Correct me if I'm wrong. (I know you will.)
I have no idea what the advantages are. But my guess is that the people who run these exchanges weren't planning for an extreme divestment that was going to hurt their liquidity. Or maybe they thought they might happen but didn't really care enough about it.
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When I was 5 years old I Bitcoin...later that same day I swallowed a quarter.
I still remember the pain ...but it passed
I will never Bitcoin again
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And how about Celcius, one of the largest crypto lending platforms, pausing all withdrawals this morning. And Binance, the world's largest crypto exchange, halting Bitcoin withdrawals for a spell.
Isn't one of the supposed benefits of crypto that one can do what one wants with them pretty much any time without interference from government, the private sector, other individuals, etc?
So if all of a sudden you lose access to the crypto you have spent tens of thousands of dollars (or more) buying, isn't that a pretty big problem?
NYKNYC
Best to just not talk about things you don't understand or only read about in the grey lady, aina?
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I am far from a crypto expert, but isn't one of the supreme advantages of crypto supposedly that it is better and more accessible than cash held in a bank? Correct me if I'm wrong. (I know you will.)
These are exchanges. They exchange fiat for crypto.
I have mine on a hard wallet because I prefer to maintain custody of my crypto.
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My God
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My God
Buy something worthless, get something worthless.
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If I was a bitcoin investor, I don't think I'd want Cathie Wood on "my side" yelling that it's going to $1M.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/crypto-optimist-bitcoin-to-1000000-by-2030-155113653.html?.tsrc=372
"I think that is pretty lofty," Valkyrie CEO Leah Wald said on Yahoo Finance Live (video above) when asked about Cathie Wood's Ark Invest calling for bitcoin prices to reach $1 million by 2030 in its January 2022 "Big Ideas" report.
"Bitcoin’s market capitalization still represents a fraction of global assets and is likely to scale as nation-states adopt as legal tender," Ark stated, listing several factors for its aggressive projection: (1) maturing bitcoin investor base focused on the long-term; (2) bitcoin taking market share as a global settlement network; and (3) institutional investors are being attracted to the space.
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If I was a bitcoin investor, I don't think I'd want Cathie Wood on "my side" yelling that it's going to $1M.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/crypto-optimist-bitcoin-to-1000000-by-2030-155113653.html?.tsrc=372
"I think that is pretty lofty," Valkyrie CEO Leah Wald said on Yahoo Finance Live (video above) when asked about Cathie Wood's Ark Invest calling for bitcoin prices to reach $1 million by 2030 in its January 2022 "Big Ideas" report.
"Bitcoin’s market capitalization still represents a fraction of global assets and is likely to scale as nation-states adopt as legal tender," Ark stated, listing several factors for its aggressive projection: (1) maturing bitcoin investor base focused on the long-term; (2) bitcoin taking market share as a global settlement network; and (3) institutional investors are being attracted to the space.
But the difference between Crypto and the market is Cathie Wood yelling this isn't remotely unique or an outlier :o
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True, she isn't the only one, but she is a walking contra-indicator right now. Personally, I think the first two reasons she states are poor arguments as well.
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Buy something worthless, get something worthless.
*checks notes*
I could sell one today for 20k+ USD
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Coinbase is in deep sh*tcoins—and so is the SEC
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/coinbase-deep-sh-tcoins-sec-191036146.html
"Coinbase is in a world of regulatory pain right now. A report this week said the SEC is investigating the company for selling digital assets that should have been registered as securities—a development that triggered a 20% crash in its share price, and resulted in longtime Coinbase booster Cathie Wood finally dumping her position. All of this comes only a week after the Justice Department charged a Coinbase manager with insider trading.
The news is especially damaging to Coinbase since the company, from its founding, has styled itself as the “white knight of crypto”—a firm that stayed on the right side of regulators even as others in the industry played fast and loose. So what happened?
Bloomberg’s Max Chafkin places the blame on Coinbase’s ill-advised decision some years back to “pivot to crapcoins.” A familiar term in the crypto world, “crapcoins” typically refers to digital tokens that have no obvious utility beyond speculative hype. (The Chafkin piece is illustrated not so subtly with coins bubbling out of a toilet).
Chafkin’s broader point is that Coinbase spent years building its reputation, but then squandered all that embracing crapcoins. This included promoting the likes of novelty coin Dogecoin to small and unsophisticated investors, many of whom have taken losses of 80% or more. Meanwhile, the decision to add crapcoins also opened the door for the rogue Coinbase manager’s insider trading scheme."
The good news for shareholders is, Wood is such a contraindicator that Coinbase should be in for a sustained climb from here.
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Great investment idea folks--just $99 for this gorgeous NFT. Just one in a series! get it before it sells out.
(https://images2.imgbox.com/7e/bc/onfaRxx0_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/onfaRxx0)
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Honestly STUNNED it took so long for him, and frankly many other politicians, to get in the NFT grift game.
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Honestly STUNNED it took so long for him, and frankly many other politicians, to get in the NFT grift game.
They should just call it stock and tell the owners they can vote once a year at a rally. ;D
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He's completely lost it. Clown show.
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He's completely lost it. Clown show.
Borrowing from a Christmas movie,
Welcome to the party, pal.
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Great investment idea folks--just $99 for this gorgeous NFT. Just one in a series! get it before it sells out.
(https://images2.imgbox.com/7e/bc/onfaRxx0_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/onfaRxx0)
There are several people here on Scoop that will fall for this hustle. I don’t think I need to name them.
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He's completely lost it. Clown show.
Good deflection.
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Good deflection.
What is your expectation here?
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I'm a no more trumper.
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He's been exactly like this forever.
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Honestly STUNNED it took so long for him, and frankly many other politicians, to get in the NFT grift game.
Yes, only missed the window by 6-12 months
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You naysayers! If you aren't already convinced, the MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT video will have you running for your wallet.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1603432720062976001 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1603432720062976001)
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Can't believe the scoop mods haven't tried this to raise funds for scoop. Picturing several scoop action figure NFT's.
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Can't believe the scoop mods haven't tried this to raise funds for scoop. Picturing several scoop action figure NFT's.
On man, just picture Topper looming over a keyboard, in mid-swing with a giant banhammer.
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I know I don't want to see Ziggy's or JB's kung fu grip.
Galway Eagle in a 19th century boxing pose with a handlebar mustache.
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Can't believe the scoop mods haven't tried this to raise funds for scoop. Picturing several scoop action figure NFT's.
Arch Man
Question Kid
Mysogonist Mike
Lots of superhero options.
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Muggsy's needs a random question voice chip.
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Muggsy's needs a random question voice chip.
Muggsy the Miniature Manatee
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On man, just picture Topper looming over a keyboard, in mid-swing with a giant banhammer.
I have a mental picture of a variation of the GEICO 'Aunts' commercial. Only instead if 'expired', we get the mods saying 'banned'.
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I have a mental picture of a variation of the GEICO 'Aunts' commercial. Only instead if 'expired', we get the mods saying 'banned'.
BTW, what's up with GEICO recycling a bunch of ads from a few years ago?
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Doing their bit for the environment?
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Newsdream's as Captain Jack Sparrow.
... why is the rum gone?......
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BTW, what's up with GEICO recycling a bunch of ads from a few years ago?
I think they fired their ad agency and hired a new one. Probably still waiting for the new work to be produced.
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Muggsy the Miniature Manatee
Maybe his is life size.
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This is…not a great look
https://twitter.com/followtheh/status/1603501718888652804?s=20&t=hGtiezbxfxVDluuFxEK1hw
Related, my very good friend’s best man at his wedding is an exec at Binance. Worked at Uber for awhile, progressed quickly, then moved to Binance cause his older brother is in the C suite leadership team, based in HK, etc…. Nice enough guy, but at the bachelor party and the wedding, he was flaunting all the crypto bro richness stuff, his absurd expense account, etc…. Well this week, a friend of a friend needed his address to send him a wedding invite…and was told a PO Box in Nevada. Said Binance bro split his time the past few years between San Fran and Texas, not weird at alll…. Even my friend said he’s not sure where he’s actually living the last 3-4 months
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USDC depegged, down 10%. This is going to be an interesting week for crypto.
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With Silicon Valley Credit Union going belly up, it is going to be an interesting start to the week everywhere.
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With Silicon Valley Credit Union going belly up, it is going to be an interesting start to the week everywhere.
SVB is a commercial bank, not a credit union. Agreed though.
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I know it is. Forgive me. I was engaging in snark due to the insular nature of the bank and its clients.
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I know it is. Forgive me. I was engaging in snark due to the insular nature of the bank and its clients.
As a multi-time client of SVB I can expand on this to counter your snark a little. SVB caters to a set of clients that other banks struggle to work with. Most banks aren't super helpful when you have a $20MM-$200MM deposit coming in and need it deployed somewhere while you draw down over the next 2-3 years. SVB is pretty great to work with on the startup/VC side of things. They also royally effed up.
I get that not many people have the same problems that VC-backed startups and VC funds have, but SVB served an otherwise underserved market. Another FI needs to step up to fill that gap.
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As a multi-time client of SVB I can expand on this to counter your snark a little. SVB caters to a set of clients that other banks struggle to work with. Most banks aren't super helpful when you have a $20MM-$200MM deposit coming in and need it deployed somewhere while you draw down over the next 2-3 years. SVB is pretty great to work with on the startup/VC side of things. They also royally effed up.
I get that not many people have the same problems that VC-backed startups and VC funds have, but SVB served an otherwise underserved market. Another FI needs to step up to fill that gap.
Yeah, but thats what happens when money isn't free anymore. VCs came calling for their money and they had to sell all their bonds well below value.
That's the gamble.
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As a multi-time client of SVB I can expand on this to counter your snark a little. SVB caters to a set of clients that other banks struggle to work with. Most banks aren't super helpful when you have a $20MM-$200MM deposit coming in and need it deployed somewhere while you draw down over the next 2-3 years. SVB is pretty great to work with on the startup/VC side of things. They also royally effed up.
I get that not many people have the same problems that VC-backed startups and VC funds have, but SVB served an otherwise underserved market. Another FI needs to step up to fill that gap.
Talking to my friend who is director in essentially competitor intel and research for a large FI, I found it interesting that SVB’s biggest competitor was Chase. But also speaks to the lack of comparable offerings in the space
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Talking to my friend who is director in essentially competitor intel and research for a large FI, I found it interesting that SVB’s biggest competitor was Chase. But also speaks to the lack of comparable offerings in the space
Yeah it's odd. You'd think the major banks would fight over holding that much cash. SVB operated a little like a neo-bank though, which the big banks can't figure out how to do. My better half works at an FI with >1T under management and they move as slow as molasses. I'm surprised the big boys haven't just acquired a neo-bank instead of rolling their own.
My guess is that SVB operates more like a consumer bank and most of the big boys are moving away from retail and moving towards the wealth/govt side of the market which is more stable. Big opp here for the neo-banks to go after retail and SMBs.
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Yeah it's odd. You'd think the major banks would fight over holding that much cash. SVB operated a little like a neo-bank though, which the big banks can't figure out how to do. My better half works at an FI with >1T under management and they move as slow as molasses. I'm surprised the big boys haven't just acquired a neo-bank instead of rolling their own.
My guess is that SVB operates more like a consumer bank and most of the big boys are moving away from retail and moving towards the wealth/govt side of the market which is more stable. Big opp here for the neo-banks to go after retail and SMBs.
Most of the big banks have almost too much cash on hand. That is why you see them offering 0.01% interest rates, they don't need to get more cash deposits.
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Buy something worthless, get something worthless.
*pokes bear*
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*pokes bear*
Yeah. Crazy Run. Talk about feeling bubbly. I still won't touch it.