P U thoughts

[TedBaxter]

Y'all are 'pectin' two much outta Frolin'. He ain't no second cummin', hey?

So you don't think he could be playing 20 minutes or more a night?  By far the more offensively skilled of the players at the 5 right now.

I'm not sure what to totally expect defensively and in rebounding since his body change since I watched him in games for SMU a year ago.  Losing 40 pounds may have a great effect on his quickness and ability to get rebounds out of his area. 

[4everwarriors]

Playin' 20 min.? Who cares? Nun of us no if he's an upgrade. Color me skeptical doe, hey?

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Completely disagree with the freshmen having a high celing. Elliot and Cain have a ton of potential. Super high ceiling. Unfortunately, they also have lower floors.

Theo could be an absolute monster as an upper classman.

[4everwarriors]

Its kool how we're always gonna bee awsome in a seeson or too. In da meantyme, suckin' ass now, ai na?

[79Warrior]

Its kool how we're always gonna bee awsome in a seeson or too. In da meantyme, suckin' ass now, ai na?

Don't tell Dodds that. Every year is a rebuild to him. The wait till next year talk gets old.

[#UnleashSean]

Don't tell Dodds that. Every year is a rebuild to him. The wait till next year talk gets old.

I've been waiting till next year for 4 years. I just hope wojo's class this year doesn't blow up like the Carter Cheatham ellenson class.

[muguru]

I've been waiting till next year for 4 years. I just hope wojo's class this year doesn't blow up like the Carter Cheatham ellenson class.

+1, getting REALLY old, yet strangely, after the massive success this program had under Buzz, a lot of MU fans are okay with the repeated "wait till next year" line. This is where you cue the "Look what Buzz left Wojo, rebuilds take time " crowd.

[#UnleashSean]

+1, getting REALLY old, yet strangely, after the massive success this program had under Buzz, a lot of MU fans are okay with the repeated "wait till next year" line. This is where you cue the "Look what Buzz left Wojo, rebuilds take time " crowd.

I'm all for waiting, but the progress has been bad. His 2015 class was basically a full bust. HE went pro instantly (while making us lose another center) Carter transferred, and Cheatham is shaping up to be a role player into his junior year. I'm hopeful for these next two classes although. Then theres his coaching decisions, which have just been awful and shown little improvement over the years.

Edit: Completely forgot about Sacar "Where is he" Anim.

[Marcus92]

I know someone else has already said it in this thread somewhere, but the hope is that Froling can bring more of a outside game to the center position. A simple pick and pop with either Rowsey or Howard could be real nice. If he's a threat from the corner that brings the big out of the paint on defense and opens the drives that weren't there last night for our guards. Make the opposing center have to cover more ground on D and they'll pick up more fouls being out of position. If Heldt or John is within 8 ft of the basket, the opposing center can stay within 8ft.

5 more fouls on the defensive end will help too.

Froling will definitely give Wojo greater roster flexibility, offering a different skillset and 5 more fouls to give. Based on early scouting reports, I expect Harry to have the most developed offensive game. It shouldn't even be close; he's considered a potential NBA prospect, quite a step above Matt and Theo at this point.

I'm not so sure about his outside game. Got to the Bradley Center early on Tuesday when he was shooting around with the team. Seemed he only took 3-pointers, and wasn't making many of them. At one point, I counted 1 for 7. Granted, small sample size in a warm-up, not a game. But I don't think we need Froling to shoot from outside. We need him to get the defense's attention inside to open things up for drives, mid-range jumpers and threes. Unless he's hitting at least 38%, I don't want him on the perimeter.

[warriorchick]

I'm not so sure about his outside game. Got to the Bradley Center early on Tuesday when he was shooting around with the team. Seemed he only took 3-pointers, and wasn't making many of them. At one point, I counted 1 for 7. Granted, small sample size in a warm-up, not a game. But I don't think we need Froling to shoot from outside. We need him to get the defense's attention inside to open things up for drives, mid-range jumpers and threes. Unless he's hitting at least 38%, I don't want him on the perimeter.

That's like permanently benching Markus Howard based on how he played in the home game against Villanova last year.

Are you seriously making judgements based on watching him attempt a handful of threes?  I bet if he knew you were watching, he would have tried harder.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I saw what Coach K and smiled a little, thinking he got it from Wojo.   However, it is tough to zone with two little guys up top.    Syracuse is successful year in and out with long athletes who use their length to disrupt passing lanes and collapse the post.    It has been decades since Syracuse had guards the size of Markus and Andrew. 

Coach K was almost run out of Durham for insisting on only playing man to man in his first years. He only started using a zone after having Boeheim as an assistant in USA Bball.

I've forgotten more about basketball, then you will every know.

I love the old "I forgot more than you will ever know" statements. All that shows is you admit you're forgetful not that you can still recall "more than he will ever know". 

[79Warrior]

+1, getting REALLY old, yet strangely, after the massive success this program had under Buzz, a lot of MU fans are okay with the repeated "wait till next year" line. This is where you cue the "Look what Buzz left Wojo, rebuilds take time " crowd.

One would think 4 years into the "rebuild" we would have a true point guard.

[brewcity77]

I've been waiting till next year for 4 years. I just hope wojo's class this year doesn't blow up like the Carter Cheatham ellenson class.

Umm...I just don't see this at all. We knew 2015 and 2016 were going to be bad. We knew that last year and this year were going to be better but not likely much more than NCAA bids. I can understand the "wait til next year" approach with 2014, because we were expecting a senior-laden team with Vander Blue leading the way. Obviously that fell apart. I understand it with 2019, because we have an experienced team that is adding a 5-star recruit and a proven forward in Ed Morrow. But I don't get anyone saying "wait til next year" for any year in the past five years other than those two. It just doesn't make sense.

[Galway Eagle]

Umm...I just don't see this at all. We knew 2015 and 2016 were going to be bad. We knew that last year and this year were going to be better but not likely much more than NCAA bids. I can understand the "wait til next year" approach with 2014, because we were expecting a senior-laden team with Vander Blue leading the way. Obviously that fell apart. I understand it with 2019, because we have an experienced team that is adding a 5-star recruit and a proven forward in Ed Morrow. But I don't get anyone saying "wait til next year" for any year in the past five years other than those two. It just doesn't make sense.

I didn't know 16 was going to be miss all postseason bad and I don't think many others on here did either. Which I believe is part of the problem. If the 13-14 team and/or the 15-16 team hasn't made any postseason at all I believe there'd be a bit more patience but instead it's just a dead era where people think of those seasons as being as bad as 14-15

[brewcity77]

I didn't know 16 was going to be miss all postseason bad and I don't think many others on here did either. Which I believe is part of the problem. If the 13-14 team and/or the 15-16 team hasn't made any postseason at all I believe there'd be a bit more patience but instead it's just a dead era where people think of those seasons as being as bad as 14-15

I can see how 2016 could've been seen with some potential, though the schedule sure indicated the staff and administration wasn't trying to build a resume for March. I think in general, 2016 lived up to expectations. We had the sour taste of 2014 and Buzz's departure and the first miserable season under Wojo. If "wait til next year" was the mantra, I would think 20 wins and being respectable again met those expectations. Same with last year.

I haven't seen anything thus far to indicate Wojo isn't proceeding and succeeding at a fine rate. I'd like to see more out of the defense, sure, but as far as strictly results goes, the trajectory has been consistently up and seems to be pointing to better things in the coming years. I get the idea of "wait til next year" this year because so many seem to think next year's team has second and possibly third weekend potential. But while you can get fortunate results, anyone that thought in 2014, 2015, or 2016 that we were a "wait til next year" away from a Final Four is either ridiculously overoptimistic or just delusional.

[Galway Eagle]

I can see how 2016 could've been seen with some potential, though the schedule sure indicated the staff and administration wasn't trying to build a resume for March. I think in general, 2016 lived up to expectations. We had the sour taste of 2014 and Buzz's departure and the first miserable season under Wojo. If "wait til next year" was the mantra, I would think 20 wins and being respectable again met those expectations. Same with last year.

I haven't seen anything thus far to indicate Wojo isn't proceeding and succeeding at a fine rate. I'd like to see more out of the defense, sure, but as far as strictly results goes, the trajectory has been consistently up and seems to be pointing to better things in the coming years. I get the idea of "wait til next year" this year because so many seem to think next year's team has second and possibly third weekend potential. But while you can get fortunate results, anyone that thought in 2014, 2015, or 2016 that we were a "wait til next year" away from a Final Four is either ridiculously overoptimistic or just delusional.

I agree it's just unfortunate that 20 wins and 14 are viewed as the same because there wasn't even an NIT bid.

[muguru]

FWIW, I have heard Wojo himself say several times, in interviews, that even he wishes the progress was faster(almost inferring he had thought it would be by now). Well Wojo, who's responsible for that??

[GGGG]

So people would feel better about the rebuild had we made the 2016 NIT?

[Galway Eagle]

So people would feel better about the rebuild had we made the 2016 NIT?

I think people would be more inclined to buy into step by step progress. I'm not saying people would be 100% in but I feel that some form of postseason result from that season of Henry would get people to go from saying "that was a bust of a year" to "that was a weak schedule and a young team but you can see some ground work"

[muguru]

So people would feel better about the rebuild had we made the 2016 NIT?

I never wanted a rebuild to begin with..especially one that has taken this long. I wanted a reload.

[Galway Eagle]

I never wanted a rebuild to begin with..especially one that has taken this long. I wanted a reload.

And how do you propose that should've been done? Please lay out a bullet point strategy where things could've gone better. Because everything that blew up in our faces since Vander left seems to have been beyond our control outside of defense.

[jesmu84]

I never wanted a rebuild to begin with..especially one that has taken this long. I wanted a reload.

Man. You sure do whine a lot. You realize this isn't the same Marquette as the 70s? And it's not modern day Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, etc?

Unless we get a lifetime coach, this ebb and flow is what Marquette is. You either can't understand where we are in the college basketball hierarchy or you willingly choose to ignore it.

[GrimmReaper33]

There was quite a bit of excitement around that 15-16 team, I think people are short changing expectations for that team looking back.  You had JJ and Duane, two former top 75 recruits, who were entering their 3rd season in the program.  Duane was coming off a RS FR year when he averaged 12 points a game.  Luke was going to be available for a full season after averaging 11 a game during his half season.  That is 3 talented and experienced upperclassmen coming back.

On top of that, we were adding a top 10 recruiting class including a bonafide 5 star All American in Henry, and two 4 stars in Carter and HC.  I know I had high expectations, as did others.  I remember talking to countless people around the state of WI who would comment on Wojo and the season MU could have with Henry, and he's got the program rolling, etc.  It probably all peaked when MU went into the Kohl Center and whipped UW. 

I think most fans were expecting much more from that season, at least a NCAA tournament bid.  I would say that was a disappointing season, IMO.  I'm sure Wojo would tell you the same thing.  At least I hope he would.

[Goose]

jsemu84

I do not think MU is the MU of the 70's or Duke, Kansas or Kentucky of today. I think MU is a top 70 program that has been limping slightly forward for three years. I just looked up USC record prior to Andy Enfield coming on board and they were horrible for a decade and in year four they currently are ranked #10 in the country. IMO that is turning around a program.

I definitely know that for every USC turnaround there are 10 x the number of schools that don't have that turnaround. My point is simple, a faster rebuild could have happened and probably should have happened. The continued talk about how hard a rebuild is and how long it should take is getting old. Honestly, Wojo has not gotten done to this point. That could change but he does not get a passing grade from me.

[DienerTime34]

I also think fan expectations are higher (rightfully so) due to the insane amount of money Marquette spends to be a below-average Big East team.

Also, we are going to be "young" again next season -- Wojo's fifth season. Clearly, he needs 5-7 experienced, fantastic basketball players to be competitive. He's never "coached up" any team to exceed expectations.

What players have gotten better under his tutelage? Duane Wilson? Haney? His best players have arrived on campus good, and stayed good.