P U thoughts

[GGGG]

Tonight sucked but I think Purdue beats us 100 times out of 100. Conversely, I think we are better than VCU, Georgia, Wisconsin, and Vermont. I still think we go 4-0 in those games.

I think Ethan Happ is going to destroy Heldt.  Need to double team and hope UW misses shots.

[GGGG]

I gotta admit, I am a little taken aback at the "oh well" nature of some of these comments.  I see two problems that are going to be a recurring theme.

-Lack of a point guard.  Neither Howard nor Rowsey protect the ball enough to play point IMO.  I'm not one of those "pure point guard" types, but they have to be more protective than they have been.

-Lack of interior scoring.  They miss both the post ups that Luke could give, as well as JJJ's driving ability.  Someone has to step up in that regard.  Froling could replace the former.  Haanif, Sacar or Jamal needs to replace the latter.

The defense is what the defense is.  They are small on the outside and not very athletic on the inside.  Not a good combination.

[muguru]

I gotta admit, I am a little taken aback at the "oh well" nature of some of these comments.  I see two problems that are going to be a recurring theme.

-Lack of a point guard.  Neither Howard nor Rowsey protect the ball enough to play point IMO.  I'm not one of those "pure point guard" types, but they have to be more protective than they have been.

-Lack of interior scoring.  They miss both the post ups that Luke could give, as well as JJJ's driving ability.  Someone has to step up in that regard.  Froling could replace the former.  Haanif, Sacar or Jamal needs to replace the latter.

The defense is what the defense is.  They are small on the outside and not very athletic on the inside.  Not a good combination.

We don't agree often, but you nailed it right there...the "ho hum" nature after another home loss, is perplexing. I for one am tired of leaving the BC with losses so often. Sure as hell hope the new arena brings a much better "home court" advantage, because to be quite honest, they have been downright BAD at defending their home court under Wojo.

[brewcity77]

I think Ethan Happ is going to destroy Heldt.  Need to double team and hope UW misses shots.

He won't the way Haas did. The biggest problem with Haas was that it looked like one 8th grade kid playing with the 3rd graders. Physically, sizewise, the five inches Heldt gave up to Haas may as well have been a foot. Happ just doesn't have that type of physical presence.

And maybe more important, Happ doesn't have the supporting cast that Haas does. That punished us as much as anything.

[willie warrior]

A number of comments above about how Froling will be a difference maker, etc. Sure hope so. Playing against a team with two 7 plus centers exposed a lot. Just wondering when that great defensive guru, Wojo figures it all out. Now in his 4th year, with all his own players, the excuses are all gone. We are not yet near the Duke of the midwest, but sure hope Wojo figures it out. While Heldt plays hard, he needed oodles of help out there, and while John has a good body, his foul propensity will not get us much. Guess we may have to wait to see if Froling is the real deal, as some are opining.

[MU82]

We don't agree often, but you nailed it right there...the "ho hum" nature after another home loss, is perplexing. I for one am tired of leaving the BC with losses so often. Sure as hell hope the new arena brings a much better "home court" advantage, because to be quite honest, they have been downright BAD at defending their home court under Wojo.

What would you prefer? Punching a locker and breaking a hand?

There were a lot of positives last night, and some negatives. Purdue is the bigger, better, more experienced team. We won't face many teams with a good 7-foot center who can be replaced if tired or in foul trouble by another good 7-foot center. We miss JJJ's penetration, Luke's post-up game and Katin's savvy, but we can't bring them back. Sam has talent and works hard. Heldt is a 10-15 minute backup center. We CAN win with a Markus/Rowsey backcourt. Theo definitely has potential. Sacar didn't do much. Elliott had a couple nice steals. Pluses, minuses, etc, etc, etc.

So we can say stuff like that - be encouraged by the positives, acknowledge the negatives - or we can climb on the ledge and scream, "Purdue's no good and we lost to them at home by 15, so why even bother with the season? We are doomed! Fire Wojo!"

I and others choose to not start bagging on this team 2 games into the season. But if others want to throw things and make baseless "or else" threats, knock yourselves out.

[jesmu84]

They were fine last night. Bad team matchup for us. Tough to play a team that talented/experienced early in the season with our young squad.

3 headed offensive monster may open up things for others as season rolls on

Can you imagine Purdue with swanigan? Jeesh

For those downplaying Purdue, you're foolish. That is a very good team.

No surprise who the boo birds are again. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

I gotta admit, I am a little taken aback at the "oh well" nature of some of these comments.  I see two problems that are going to be a recurring theme.

-Lack of a point guard.  Neither Howard nor Rowsey protect the ball enough to play point IMO.  I'm not one of those "pure point guard" types, but they have to be more protective than they have been.

-Lack of interior scoring.  They miss both the post ups that Luke could give, as well as JJJ's driving ability.  Someone has to step up in that regard.  Froling could replace the former.  Haanif, Sacar or Jamal needs to replace the latter.

The defense is what the defense is.  They are small on the outside and not very athletic on the inside.  Not a good combination.

Listen, when you expected a 17-13 team and an 8th place finish, you get "oh well". This will be a good offensive team, and a mediocre defensive team. Purdue was just a very tough match up.  Maui will give us a better clue as to what MU has.

Thoughts on your comments:

As to point guard, Wojo prefers combo guards (not sure many here prefer this). Both Markus and Rowsey have good (lower) turnover rates. Don't see Elliott or Haanif as a solution here this or next year as has been postulated.

Interior scoring and defense are big, gaping holes. Help is on the way in Froling (at least depth) and next year (Morrow). Sam may be best solution now.

The Haanif, Sacar, Elliott, Cain spot is key to this season. I don't expect much from the freshman except to develop. Haanif and Sacar are who we think they are so far. This spot has to evolve or MU is dead in the water.

Wojo doesn't have the talent or athlectism to play his Duke defense, IMO. His best defensive team was with Jaun playing the top in the 1-3-1 trap, and Derrick playing low in the 2-3 zone. I continue to dislike his scheme and he has yet to prove he can be successful in it here. He makes the big bucks while I sit on the couch, though, and he has made this a point of emphasis. Let's see what develops as this is everyone's biggest question mark. I prefer a stop defense.

This season is all about next season. This is going to be an up and down year as we see Wojo's plan unfold. A lot is on him this year, but the start of the season we all knew would be rough and raw. Let's see what this team and coaching staff have.

[1SE]

We all knew we'd be exposed before Froling became eligible, and this was the match-up most likely to expose that weakness. Will he be a cure-all? No. Would he have turned a L into a W last night? Who knows. But certainly he'll be a net value-add. Esp since we'll be able to go three-deep at C and/or put two big bodies on the floor at the same time if necessary. As much as the 2015-2016 season was frustrating, it was great to see us putting two bigs on the floor.

Agree that lack of someone to take it to the rack will take a toll - and will probably tell on our shooters' percentage as much as anything else will. Someone said  inthe other thread that Sacar had "Juan Anderson/Jamil Wilson/etc" syndrome - but I'm afraid it's both Sacar and Hani. Just because we want them to breakout doesn't mean they will. We're getting close to having all the pieces, just not there quite yet.

Still, as long as we're not in too big a hole by the time Froling joins in we should have the talent to Dance.

Slate of VCU/Georgia/Vermont/UW so crucial. We should be table to take 3 of 4 of those which positions us well. 4/4 we're in the driver seat. 2/4 some work to do. 1/4 in real trouble. 0/4... well, it won't come to that.

[1SE]

Listen, when you expected a 17-13 team and an 8th place finish, you get "oh well". This will be a good offensive team, and a mediocre defensive team. Purdue was just a very tough match up.  Maui will give us a better clue as to what MU has.

Thoughts on your comments:

As to point guard, Wojo prefers combo guards (not sure many here prefer this). Both Markus and Rowsey have good (lower) turnover rates. Don't see Elliott or Haanif as a solution here this or next year as has been postulated.

Interior scoring and defense are big, gaping holes. Help is on the way in Froling (at least depth) and next year (Morrow). Sam may be best solution now.

The Haanif, Sacar, Elliott, Cain spot is key to this season. I don't expect much from the freshman except to develop. Haanif and Sacar are who we think they are so far. This spot has to evolve or MU is dead in the water.

Wojo doesn't have the talent or athlectism to play his Duke defense, IMO. His best defensive team was with Jaun playing the top in the 1-3-1 trap, and Derrick playing low in the 2-3 zone. I continue to dislike his scheme and he has yet to prove he can be successful in it here. He makes the big bucks while I sit on the couch, though, and he has made this a point of emphasis. Let's see what develops as this is everyone's biggest question mark. I prefer a stop defense.

This season is all about next season. This is going to be an up and down year as we see Wojo's plan unfold. A lot is on him this year, but the start of the season we all knew would be rough and raw. Let's see what this team and coaching staff have.

+1

Had you posted 2 minutes earlier I could have saved the time writing my post! 

[jsglow]

PU is better.

[tower912]

I gotta admit, I am a little taken aback at the "oh well" nature of some of these comments.  I see two problems that are going to be a recurring theme.

-Lack of a point guard.  Neither Howard nor Rowsey protect the ball enough to play point IMO.  I'm not one of those "pure point guard" types, but they have to be more protective than they have been.

-Lack of interior scoring.  They miss both the post ups that Luke could give, as well as JJJ's driving ability.  Someone has to step up in that regard.  Froling could replace the former.  Haanif, Sacar or Jamal needs to replace the latter.

The defense is what the defense is.  They are small on the outside and not very athletic on the inside.  Not a good combination.

If you can see the weaknesses, and I think you do from the balance of your post, then why don't you understand the "oh well" nature of the posts?    I'm not that upset, as I predicted a loss and the foul trouble.    Why did I predict it?    Because I saw that Purdue was a bigger, more experienced team.     Because I recognize that currently MU is the exact same size it was last year when it was a small team.    Only now, it is a small team with no experienced depth.     I think this team has the potential to be a tourney team.   But, realistically, a whole lot of unknowns and new pieces have to come through.    And betting large on that scenario is never a good idea.   
   So, looking for improvement.    Hoping that Wojo is still recruiting for next season.   Accepting that MU was never going to win last night. 

[jsglow]

We don't agree often, but you nailed it right there...the "ho hum" nature after another home loss, is perplexing. I for one am tired of leaving the BC with losses so often. Sure as hell hope the new arena brings a much better "home court" advantage, because to be quite honest, they have been downright BAD at defending their home court under Wojo.

Because for the most part we haven't had very good players under Wojo, or at least good enough players to effectively compete with power teams like Purdue.

Right now if we played PU 10 times we'd lose 9.  There was nothing wrong with last night's effort.  The 'ho hum' is simply a reality check for most.  But it still doesn't make the 2 hour drive home any better.

[warriorchick]

I didn't notice this posted anywhere, but another positive is that in the 2nd quarter, Markus got his 3 point shot back.

I was starting to worry that a Haanif-like sophomore year was a foregone conclusion for hm

[wadesworld]

Haven't read through this thread so I'm sure I'm repeating some of the stuff posted in here.  But overall I'm encouraged by last night.  The team competed hard with a veteran, big team.  It was frustrating watching their bigs be able to go one on one for most of the night, but we saw why that was the gameplan when we started to double them in the post and they then hit their perimeter shots down the stretch.  They're as balanced and as big of a team as we'll see this year.  I thought the defense was good for the better part of the first 30 minutes of the game and got worn down for the last 10 minutes of the game.

The offense was underwhelming.  Way too much one on one and way too many forced, quick shots.  Out of baseline out of bounds plays it seemed like guys had their minds made up that they were shooting the ball on the catch no matter what and no matter how much time was left on the shot clock.  Ball movement wasn't good, spacing wasn't good.  But we obviously (and rightfully so) worked on defense for the past 7 months.  I'm not concerned, the offense will come around, it just wasn't quite where it needed to be to beat a team like Purdue this early in the year.

I wasn't sure Froling would be a huge factor for us, but after last night I'm sure hoping he is.  We need a 4th guy in a bad way.  He has a chance to be by far our biggest offensive threat in the post, and the fact that he can step out and shoot the ball is a big benefit for him and the team.  If Haas or Haarms have to step out and guard him in the corner that opens up some lanes to finish at the rim that weren't there last night.

Sam, Markus, and Rowsey are all studs that will be even better when the offense gets fully flowing.  Otherwise it's just a bunch of guys right now.  Sacar meh, Cheatham meh, Heldt meh, Elliott meh, Theo meh.  Need something from Froling or it will be a grind for "the big 3" this year.

[GGGG]

If you can see the weaknesses, and I think you do from the balance of your post, then why don't you understand the "oh well" nature of the posts?   

People are misunderstanding me.  I am not surprised by the outcome.  I'm surprised that Scoop is acting all calm and rational.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I agree with most of what has been posted.  The game went as expected.  My biggest concern is the group of Cheatham, Anim, Elliott, and Cain.  Wojo either needs to do a lot of developing or a lot of recruiting.  Or both.

Markus Howard is going to be awfully lonely in the backcourt next year.

[MerrittsMustache]

1) This game was about what I had expected. Purdue was a bad match-up for MU, but it also showed that MU has a ways to go to compete with the big boys. 

2) MU has some excellent shooters but they have no play-makers and no post presence. This team needs to get the ball inside. Even if it's just a toss into Heldt so he can pass it right back out, there needs to be more ball movement inside-out as opposed to just along the perimeter. It's like throwing the occasional deep ball in football - you have to at least make the D respect that it's an option.

3) Pump the brakes on Froling. He's only a soph and he averaged 4 and 3 in ~15 min last season, with over one-quarter of those points coming against Delaware State. MU needs his size but he's not going to step in and be Robert Jackson.

4) Rowsey ended up with a nice line but he really had a "two steps forward, one step back" type of game. Big shots, some decent play-making but too many TOs, too much driving to no where and several quick, forced shots. He's too important to this team to have a handful of unforced TOs in a big game.

5) Again, MU's offense needs ball movement. When MU started doubling Haas, he kicked it out, they moved it along the perimeter and got an open 3. MU needs to watch those possessions on a loop.

6) Let's get ready for Maui!

[Clam Crowder]

1. I'm not discouraged after this game. If Froling can score, we will win a lot of games.

2. Freshmen clearly are not ready to contribute yet - hopefully some experience against the bunnies will help.

3. Haani continues to disappoint. Was at his worst tonite. We were dying for another guy to step up and score and he had nothing. I don't know if he had any boards either. Was running away from the ball in half court offense.

4.  Rowsey and Howard need to average 20 ppg or the offense will really be in trouble.

It has been 2 Freakin games and in the first game he looked just fine. He took 9 shots...Not a small number just got swatted 3 times against the Tree Haas

[Clam Crowder]

It has been 2 Freakin games and in the first game he looked just fine. He took 9 shots...Not a small number just got swatted 3 times against the Tree Haas. Also the 2 assists by Heldt being second on the team is just bad news. Ball movement was a big part of last year's offense. Markus touched on this in post game comments.....Thing is Markus plays the 1 a bit and he doesn't pass the ball to guys often

[Dr. Blackheart]

People are misunderstanding me.  I am not surprised by the outcome.  I'm surprised that Scoop is acting all calm and rational.

Only at a 8% sliver of the moon today...

[GB Warrior]

1. We got better today. We fought through adversity and some streaky shooting - just didn't have the ponies to bring it home.
2. Not sure you'll have a worse matchup all year than a Purdue team with 2 7-footers
3. Heldt is overmatched. Not everyone will have bigs like PU, but that wasn't pretty. Theo is still a freshman and it showed
4. That said, it was encouraging to see Hauser be able to hold his own in spurts.
5. Purdue will compete for the Big Ten crown. If you're going to drop a game, this was the one I would have circled.

[DCHoopster]

They were fine last night. Bad team matchup for us. Tough to play a team that talented/experienced early in the season with our young squad.

3 headed offensive monster may open up things for others as season rolls on

Can you imagine Purdue with swanigan? Jeesh

For those downplaying Purdue, you're foolish. That is a very good team.

No surprise who the boo birds are again. 

I happen to record some of the Duke-MSU game and Kentucky-Kansas.  Right now I feel Purdue could beat all those teams.  They have 2 bigs that can defend, Haas
can really pass out of the post and Harms is just scratching the service on his ability.  Add the other seniors who all can shoot it and you have a team that could get to
the final 4 and give MSU a run for the Big Ten title.  MU is what I thought they would be,  Rowsey, Howard and Sam can play.  The rest, will need to figure out how to
play.  Hanif has not learned that you need a floater or a jumper, has neither.  Sad to say, he looked the same as last year.  Anim and Hanif like to slash to the basket,
against 2 7 footers, it did not work out.  Against most other teams, it will be fine.  On this board, some people think Matt might be better than Luke, no chance.  Again, he will be better against smaller teams.  He was totally outmatched yesterday.  John is not coordinated enough yet on the D end, make take him a year or two.
Elliott to small, and Cain to skinny as well.  It will be nice next year to be as big as most teams, as right now they are all to small.  Froling, Hauser, Morrow, and Joey
will change the dynamics and if Bailey can play he might be the 2 guard next year.  Now that would be a big line-up.

[onepost]

What frustrates me is that Wojo still seems way too vanilla in his coaching.  Haas is checking in?  Better counter by sending Matt in to get dominated inside once again.  You're playing right into Purdue's hands by coaching that way.  Our best stretch of ball last night was when we went small at the end of the first half.  We applied a good amount of pressure and got some steals that led to us cutting the lead to 2 (should have been tied).

Does anyone here think Sam would have done a worse job of defending Haas than Heldt??  In a limited sample, he didn't.  And even if he gave you the same on defense as Heldt (allowing Haas to score every time) then AT LEAST we'd be able to make them pay on the other end because good luck having Haas trail Sam around the 3-point line.  Either Purdue would roll the dice with Haas getting pulled outside consistently on defense or they'd have to just take him out.  I can only recall one possession where Haas was defending Sacar and we got them in a pick and roll with Haas guarding Rowsey (or Markus).  We ended up with points and never saw that again.

I'll concede that it's tough sledding and I'm not saying going small would have won us the game, but God damn at least think outside the box one time.  When we're down 10-12, why not try what you saw had success in the first, as opposed to trotting out the same defense that you know will result in a Haas layup or wide open 3 and a non-threat in Matt on the offensive end.  Such a shame we get Edwards his 4th foul with 13 minutes left and pose no threat the rest of the game.

[tower912]

If Sam had spent 20 minutes guarding Haas, he would have fouled out.   "Wojo should have made adjustments"    Other than zoning, his options are limited.   8 guys played last night.    Each one was smaller than the person he was guarding/was guarding him.    And the problems would have been the same in the zone.    Purdue was the better team last night.    Full stop.       

Now it is time for Wojo and company to take the lessons learned last night and work to fix them.  During practice,  I think I would run the offense and forbid Rowsey and Howard to shoot.    Force the other players to get in the habit of making plays.    Can Heldt guard most normal sized centers alone.   He had better.     Keep teaching.   Keep winning every day.   Get Cain ready to play.     MU is going to play a lot of games in a short time.   Going to need all nine players to contribute.    Contrary to the 70's TV show, eight is not enough when playing back to back games.