NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18

[Pakuni]

I'm not a Bears fan, as you know, but I have to agree with you here. I don't quite get the fascination with Harbaugh. Lots of coaches have had good runs - even runs that have included a Super Bowl. Fox was one of them. So was Lovie. So is Rivera. Many other examples.

By the only two measurements that Michigan fans care about - success vs. tOSU and playoff appearances - Harbaugh has not only has failed but has done so spectacularly. They're 0-3 vs the Buckeyes, losing by an average of 14 points, and haven't sniffed the 4-team playoff. That is abject failure on WolverineLand.

He managed to make enemies, act like a douche, and make a ton of money, but he didn't manage to accomplish a single thing that matters.

He fizzled out with the Niners, too, going 8-8 just 2 years after his unsuccessful Super Bowl appearance.

Could he orchestrate a quick turnaround and then take off a couple years later - kind of a football version of Scott Skiles? I suppose. Have fun with that!

Yikes. A lot of hate here.

Anyhow, he took over a team that hadn't had a winning season in eight years and took them to three straight conference championships. That's pretty good, right? (Also note: said team is 13-35 since he left).
I mean, if the worst you can say about him is that he went .500 one year and ticked off one of the worst owners in the NFL, that's also pretty good.

Michigan was a trainwreck when he got there, going 24-32 in the Big 10 under the two previous coaches. He's made them relevant for the first time since 2008. I guess that doesn't matter.

[wadesworld]

I'd take Harbough over Mac. Mac's has his time. He's proven to be able to ride the hottest hand in football but be pretty incompetent at times.

Let's say for craps and giggles Harbaugh did come in (he's not, Mac will be the coach going forward) and lights a spark for 3-4 years before he wears out his welcome. So that gives the Pack an Aaron Rodgers at 37-38 years old.

I'm fairly convinced the Packers will always be a "contender" with Mac but I'm also pretty well convinced they ain't winning the SB with him running the show. He talks about needing to fix the same things from game to game, year to year, and it never really gets fixed.

Oh and the team absolutely quit on him the last 2 weeks of the season.

As far as McGinn goes, he was great until the Packers got pissed off for calling out their "holier than though" attitude with regards to Guion still being on the roster through all of his legal issues. He rightfully did his job, the Packers of course were pissed, and from there on out he became someone simply trying to find any reason to put the Packers down.

[MU82]

Yikes. A lot of hate here.

Anyhow, he took over a team that hadn't had a winning season in eight years and took them to three straight conference championships. That's pretty good, right? (Also note: said team is 13-35 since he left).
I mean, if the worst you can say about him is that he went .500 one year and ticked off one of the worst owners in the NFL, that's also pretty good.

Michigan was a trainwreck when he got there, going 24-32 in the Big 10 under the two previous coaches. He's made them relevant for the first time since 2008. I guess that doesn't matter.

I said nothing "hateful."

What I said about his Michigan "accomplishments" are 100% correct, no? What do Michigan football fans care about? Beating tOSU and contending for national championships, right? Has he done either?

Your points about his SF record, though, are fair enough.

Harbaugh has a good record, and that suggests that he is a good coach. Given that the Bears have had a shortage of those, sure, pay him $10 million a year or whatever to fix them. It's the old lady's dough, so who cares?

His record also suggests that he hasn't had the staying power or the ability to accomplish his goals. Maybe Chicago is where he'll do it.

I can't say I have a better candidate for y'all, anyway. Although in the NFL, the "name" guys often don't do as well as the relative no-names.

[MerrittsMustache]

Ryan Pace isn't going to hire Jim Harbaugh because one of Harbaugh's first moves would be to attempt to get rid of Pace so he can have control of personnel.

[tower912]

Do not understand the Harbaugh aura.    One great year with San Fran.    The rest of his career as a 8-10 win per season college coach.    Wearing out his welcome wherever he goes.   If his name wasn't Harbaugh and Michigan hadn't sold their soul to get him and then created a cult around him, his seat would be getting warm in  Ann Arbor.     Frankly, I don't think they would be sad to see him go.   Except there is no plan B. 

[Pakuni]

Do not understand the Harbaugh aura.    One great year with San Fran.    The rest of his career as a 8-10 win per season college coach.    Wearing out his welcome wherever he goes.   If his name wasn't Harbaugh and Michigan hadn't sold their soul to get him and then created a cult around him, his seat would be getting warm in  Ann Arbor.     Frankly, I don't think they would be sad to see him go.   Except there is no plan B.

1. Took over a Michigan program that was eight games under .500 in the Big 10 under the two previous coaches, has gone 18-8 in conference since and made two major bowl appearances.
2. Took over a 49ers team that hadn't had a winning season in eight years. Immediately took them to the three consecutive NFC Conference championship games. (That's three great years, fwiw)
3. Took over a Stanford program that had gone 16-40 in the five previous seasons. Made them a national title contender by his fourth season.

I agree his seat is going to get warm, and I get why people don't like him personally. But as a coach, he's been successful everywhere he's been ... including Michigan, when you consider where that program was for the six seasons before he arrived. They're not beating OSU, but they're not losing to Minnesota or Rutgers either.

[MU82]

1. Took over a Michigan program that was eight games under .500 in the Big 10 under the two previous coaches, has gone 18-8 in conference since and made two major bowl appearances.
2. Took over a 49ers team that hadn't had a winning season in eight years. Immediately took them to the three consecutive NFC Conference championship games. (That's three great years, fwiw)
3. Took over a Stanford program that had gone 16-40 in the five previous seasons. Made them a national title contender by his fourth season.

I agree his seat is going to get warm, and I get why people don't like him personally. But as a coach, he's been successful everywhere he's been ... including Michigan, when you consider where that program was for the six seasons before he arrived. They're not beating OSU, but they're not losing to Minnesota or Rutgers either.

Reasonable stuff as usual, Pakuni. I probably was too dismissive of him earlier because I think he's a douchenozzle.

My only nit would be that the way college football is set up now, there are only 3 major bowl games each season - the 2 national semifinals and the championship.

All the others are just exhibitions - not even as important as games against Minnesota and Rutgers!

[JWags85]

1. Took over a Michigan program that was eight games under .500 in the Big 10 under the two previous coaches, has gone 18-8 in conference since and made two major bowl appearances.
2. Took over a 49ers team that hadn't had a winning season in eight years. Immediately took them to the three consecutive NFC Conference championship games. (That's three great years, fwiw)
3. Took over a Stanford program that had gone 16-40 in the five previous seasons. Made them a national title contender by his fourth season.

I agree his seat is going to get warm, and I get why people don't like him personally. But as a coach, he's been successful everywhere he's been ... including Michigan, when you consider where that program was for the six seasons before he arrived. They're not beating OSU, but they're not losing to Minnesota or Rutgers either.

Not to mention Michigan was 4-0 before losing their senior QB.  The backup ranged from ok in Peters to atrocious in O'Korn, someone who couldn't see the field at Houston.  It was a disappointing season to be sure, but that team lost a lot of talent and then lost their QB.  Harbaugh getting that team back to top-10 contention in 2 years is impressive enough.  Sure, the Ohio State thing won't sit well, but thats a program that is at the pinnacle while Harbaugh took over a program that was a dumpster fire, and he still almost beat them in year one.

Complaints about his personality being abrasive or whatnot is fair, he's a lunatic.  But to drag him for a single bad season after 3 excellent ones in SF and then a "disappointing" season after 2 overachieving ones and not managing to beat a juggernaut rival with an undermanned team is totally unfair, IMO.

I think Michigan is VERY good next year with Patterson coming in, and Harbaugh isnt going anywhere.

[jesmu84]

Packers cleaning house all over the coaching staff

[GGGG]

Looks like Bennett is getting reassigned.  Wonder if Philbin is coming back as OC. 

[RJax55]

Whatever happened to Tom Clements? He was out the league in 2017. Is he retired now?

[GB Warrior]

Looks like Bennett is getting reassigned.  Wonder if Philbin is coming back as OC.

Ben McAdoo available too. Not exactly a high leverage position in Mike Mccarthy's staff.

All eyes on GM. I'm worried about the onus it places on retaining scouts if you nab someone without a scouting background like Ball.

[GGGG]

Ben McAdoo available too. Not exactly a high leverage position in Mike Mccarthy's staff.

All eyes on GM. I'm worried about the onus it places on retaining scouts if you nab someone without a scouting background like Ball.

Well it depends.  If you give Wolf more influence, money and a nice title, he probably is going to be able to retain a good portion of the staff.

You knew people like Highsmith were going to leave eventually.  There was only so much the Packers could do to keep people like that.

[GB Warrior]

Well it depends.  If you give Wolf more influence, money and a nice title, he probably is going to be able to retain a good portion of the staff.

You knew people like Highsmith were going to leave eventually.  There was only so much the Packers could do to keep people like that.

I think that's right, and the carrot is that whoever is that "next guy" gets a lot of sway and autonomy. We get a pass this year because there aren't any real openings elsewhere, but my greater point is that it puts the burden on succession planning and they're going to have to be willing to spend lavishly on the personnel department to keep people. Wolf and Gutekunst will eventually move on for the whole package as a GM, but I agree we can keep them happy for awhile. My prediction is that one of them will get what Highsmith got in a VP title.

Now, I think it's unfair to the staff there to act like the GM is the whole organization. It certainly sets a tone, as Thompson did, but there are a lot of lifers and talented people there.

[hairy worthen]

Well it depends.  If you give Wolf more influence, money and a nice title, he probably is going to be able to retain a good portion of the staff.

You knew people like Highsmith were going to leave eventually.  There was only so much the Packers could do to keep people like that.

If they can keep Wolf and/or Gutekunst and hire Ball, I am fine with it but I really would like to see Wolf get his shot. The consensus sounds like Ball, but it sure seemed like they have been grooming Wolf for this for a while. Its kind of a Dick move on the Packers part to block Wolf from interviewing for GM positions and then string him along with more titles only to tell him he is not their guy.

[mu03eng]

If they can keep Wolf and/or Gutekunst and hire Ball, I am fine with it but I really would like to see Wolf get his shot. The consensus sounds like Ball, but it sure seemed like they have been grooming Wolf for this for a while. Its kind of a Dick move on the Packers part to block Wolf from interviewing for GM positions and then string him along with more titles only to tell him he is not their guy.

No snark intended, but if the Packer's issue the last couple of years has been personnel....why are we worried about retaining the head of the personnel department? Has Wolf been giving TT great advice that the guy flat out ignored? I'm not educated enough to say what the problem is/was but if we think the roster sucks I don't get the logic that says one of the key architects of said roster should get the big chair.

[hairy worthen]

No snark intended, but if the Packer's issue the last couple of years has been personnel....why are we worried about retaining the head of the personnel department? Has Wolf been giving TT great advice that the guy flat out ignored? I'm not educated enough to say what the problem is/was but if we think the roster sucks I don't get the logic that says one of the key architects of said roster should get the big chair.

Who knows what goes on in their offices and how much TT listened.   It would be interesting to see which players were recommended by each particular scout.

From all accounts Wolf and Gutekunst are highly regarded and well thought of enough by other teams to get gm interviews. I think the biggest TT complaint is that he didn't use all the avenues available to him to acquire players not so much the specific players he acquired, although recently his drafts have been a concern also. My concern is, if they hire Ball, they will probably lose both top scouts and now you have a guy without scouting background running the show.

[4everwarriors]

Beli ta NY, Mac ta NE, Douchebag's bil ta GB, hey?

[Goose]

4ever

I would love to have DB bil at GB.

[WarriorDad]

44-19 record in the pros, with three conference championship appearances and one Super Bowl appearance in four seasons.
You could do far, far worse.

45 ESPN analysts rated whom they would hire for the NFL.

Harbaugh finished first.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21947511/nfl-head-coaching-candidates-hire-45-espn-analysts-rank-their-choices-jim-harbaugh-leads-way

[Pakuni]

Looks like the Packers have a GM.

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Packers are hiring Brian Gutekunst as their GM, as @McClain_on_NFL said. A 5-year deal for Gutekunst.

[GGGG]

Afraid to lose him to the Texans

[Dish]

I'd guess McCarthy is safe now.

[GGGG]

I'd guess McCarthy is safe now.

Which will help with the defensive coordinator search.

[Hards Alumni]

Well that was not very exciting.