NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18

[cheebs09]

Kinda too bad.  His poor 10 game audition will eliminate any chance at a meaningful second contract.  And from all reports he's a darn good kid.

Based on some of the QBs getting signed in the last few weeks, I think he will get another chance. There's some bad qbs on rosters.

[wadesworld]

Then the Packers did a poor job of drafting him or developing him, yes?

How many teams draft a quarterback to back up a HOF quarterback in the 5th round and develop them into anything more than a guy who holds a clipboard and takes some victory formation snaps in blowouts?

Not many teams are going to win a lot of football games when their starting quarterback goes down.  The only situations where backup quarterbacks come in and play winning football is when a team either drafts a young quarterback early and starts him on the bench to start the year (like the Bears this year) or know going into the season their quarterback situation is dicey and they need a solid guy available if their injury prone starter gets injured (like the Vikings this year).

Teams like the Packers, Steelers, Titans, Raiders, Eagles, Lions, Saints, Panthers, Falcons, Rams, Cardinals, etc. don't develop their backup quarterbacks into guys that could jump right in and have their teams not miss a beat.  By and large, in the NFL when your starting quarterback goes out for the year, your season is over.

[cheebs09]

The Packers did with Favre. A lot of backups went on to be starters. Some better than others.

[mu03eng]

How many teams draft a quarterback to back up a HOF quarterback in the 5th round and develop them into anything more than a guy who holds a clipboard and takes some victory formation snaps in blowouts?

Not many teams are going to win a lot of football games when their starting quarterback goes down.  The only situations where backup quarterbacks come in and play winning football is when a team either drafts a young quarterback early and starts him on the bench to start the year (like the Bears this year) or know going into the season their quarterback situation is dicey and they need a solid guy available if their injury prone starter gets injured (like the Vikings this year).

Teams like the Packers, Steelers, Titans, Raiders, Eagles, Lions, Saints, Panthers, Falcons, Rams, Cardinals, etc. don't develop their backup quarterbacks into guys that could jump right in and have their teams not miss a beat.  By and large, in the NFL when your starting quarterback goes out for the year, your season is over.

I have Aaron Brooks, Mark Brunell, Ty Detmer, Matt Hasselback, and Matt Flynn on lines 1 through 5 for you

[wadesworld]

I have Aaron Brooks, Mark Brunell, Ty Detmer, Matt Hasselback, and Matt Flynn on lines 1 through 5 for you

Aaron Brooks a career 38-52 record.  Mark Brunell 78-73 after just 1 season as a backup.  Ty Detmer 11-14.  Matt Hasselback 85-75 after just 2 seasons as a backup.  Matt Flynn 3-4.

The only two guys who had any success in their careers were backups for 1 and 2 seasons, respectively, in their career.  Otherwise they were starters.

Hundley will be a career backup.  Career backups tend to be not very good, and tend to have pretty bad records in the NFL.

[Pakuni]

Aaron Brooks a career 38-52 record.  Mark Brunell 78-73 after just 1 season as a backup.  Ty Detmer 11-14.  Matt Hasselback 85-75 after just 2 seasons as a backup.  Matt Flynn 3-4.

The only two guys who had any success in their careers were backups for 1 and 2 seasons, respectively, in their career.  Otherwise they were starters.

Hundley will be a career backup.  Career backups tend to be not very good, and tend to have pretty bad records in the NFL.

You're shifting goalposts here. You started by saying teams don't develop backups into anything more than guys "who holds a clipboard and takes some victory formation snaps in blowouts."  Grimes just cited five former Packer backups who went on to be way more than that, and you dismiss it because of their records as starters?

What about the Patriots? They've drafted and developed several guys behind Brady and then flipped them for more assets (Garroppolo, Brisset, Mallett, Cassel). And, of course, Brady himself was a guy who started as a clipboard carrier.

I mean, if your overall point is that backups are worse than starters ... well, OK. That seems fairly self-evident. But suggesting that developing a backup into anything more than a clipboard carrier is somehow rare and revolutionary, that's just not true.

[jsglow]

Based on some of the QBs getting signed in the last few weeks, I think he will get another chance. There's some bad qbs on rosters.

He'll get a contract.  But nothing that looks like starting or 1A money.  Frankly, as much as I respect the guy, I want the Packers to try again.

[wadesworld]

You're shifting goalposts here. You started by saying teams don't develop backups into anything more than guys "who holds a clipboard and takes some victory formation snaps in blowouts."  Grimes just cited five former Packer backups who went on to be way more than that, and you dismiss it because of their records as starters?

What about the Patriots? They've drafted and developed several guys behind Brady and then flipped them for more assets (Garroppolo, Brisset, Mallett, Cassel). And, of course, Brady himself was a guy who started as a clipboard carrier.

I mean, if your overall point is that backups are worse than starters ... well, OK. That seems fairly self-evident. But suggesting that developing a backup into anything more than a clipboard carrier is somehow rare and revolutionary, that's just not true.

I did?  My point is and has always been that teams that lose their starting quarterbacks are going to do poorly.  Pointing out 3 backups who had awful NFL careers and 2 other quarterbacks who were starters by year 3 doesn't change that.  If you think that in his one season as a with the Green Back Packers Mark Brunell developed into a starting quarterback caliber player and could've jumped right in and led the team to a bunch of wins had Favre gone down that season then more power to you.  I personally don't think that's the case, but I have no way to prove it so maybe you're onto something.

Of course some quarterbacks develop as backups early in their careers.  Like Rodgers.  That's not the point.  The point is that not many teams carry 2 starting caliber quarterbacks on their roster.  The only teams that do are the ones who do draft that young quarterback with a ton of talent but have a veteran starting until the young guy is ready (the Bears) or the team that goes into the season uncertain about their starting quarterback position due to injuries (the Vikings).  If you don't fall into one of those two categories (the Packers clearly don't), you aren't going to have a guy on your roster who can step in and sling the ball all over the field if your starter goes down.

The fact that a team can flip a backup for assets doesn't mean that if those backups were throw into the fire they would've succeeded.  Matt Flynn became a millionaire but that doesn't mean he would've led the Packers to a bunch of wins if Rodgers got hurt when he was in Green Bay.

Teams aren't winning football games with quarterbacks the caliber of Brett Hundley.

About 30 franchises would kill to trade spots with the Packers.  The fact that they can't recover from a season ending injury to their starting quarterback shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.  The Steelers wouldn't either.  The Titans wouldn't.  The Texans won't.  The only team that might be able to still make the Playoffs without their starting quarterback is the Patriots, and they have the greatest coach in the history of sports.

[GGGG]

Jerrah just needs to go full track suit before his transition into Al Davis is complete.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/08/sports/jerry-jones-nfl-roger-goodell-david-boies.html

[Dish]

I'm not shocked in the least that the Packers cut Bennett. Whichever NFL thread it was previous to this one, I remember saying that it wouldn't be a good signing. 

One of the few NFL predictions I've actually gotten right recently though, my recent track record is subpar.

[GGGG]

Packers are claiming he didn't disclose a prior injury.  Pretense for going after his signing bonus.

[BM1090]

If anyone wants a great deal on a pair of tickets in Sec. 330 for the Ravens game PM me.

PM sent.

[Hards Alumni]

Packers are claiming he didn't disclose a prior injury.  Pretense for going after his signing bonus.

I wouldn't be surprised.  I also think that the second Rodgers went down he decided he was done.

[Jockey]

The Packers did with Favre. A lot of backups went on to be starters. Some better than others.

Much different situation. Wolff thought he was a starting caliber QB - hence he went after him with the plan that he would be the future in GB.

[cheebs09]

Much different situation. Wolff thought he was a starting caliber QB - hence he went after him with the plan that he would be the future in GB.

I meant when Favre was starter, they had some talented backups who became starters. I think teams try to develop backup QBs to be trade bait too. Especially with the struggle to find a good an. If you have a solid starter, the backup could get you a nice pick or two.

[rocket surgeon]

But that isn't what I stated.  I said that some will be upset and some will not, using the military as an example.  Is that not true? We can't get 100% of Americans to agree we went to the moon or that the earth is a sphere, you don't expect everyone to agree on anything else do you? 

It comes down to degrees in my view.   If 65% of American Veterans think you should stand for the national anthem and kneeling is disrespectful (poll in October), is that the same as 18% of Native Americans wanting to change a nickname? 

We should acknowledge the views of both sides, but that doesn't mean both sides are equal in the argument or claim.  Or do you think it does?

this is a great statement dude...whoever you are

[jsglow]

I wouldn't be surprised.  I also think that the second Rodgers went down he decided he was done.

Yep.  And I have no problem with the Packers going after the $4.2MM.  I was hoping to like Marty.  Never happened.

[MerrittsMustache]

Yep.  And I have no problem with the Packers going after the $4.2MM.  I was hoping to like Marty.  Never happened.

When things are going well, he can be a great guy and a highly productive player. When things aren't going well, he mails it in and can be a terrible guy in the lockerroom. He's hurt and things are not going well in GB right now. It's a very logical move to dump him.

Excuse my ignorance but does having an "undisclosed injury" mean that he was injured when he signed (which should have been caught during his physical) or that he tried to hide an injury during the season or could it be that he injured himself off the field but didn't fess up?

[jsglow]

When things are going well, he can be a great guy and a highly productive player. When things aren't going well, he mails it in and can be a terrible guy in the lockerroom. He's hurt and things are not going well in GB right now. It's a very logical move to dump him.

Excuse my ignorance but does having an "undisclosed injury" mean that he was injured when he signed (which should have been caught during his physical) or that he tried to hide an injury during the season or could it be that he injured himself off the field but didn't fess up?

As to your question, I think the definition is somewhat broad.  Frankly, I think Marty decided that old aches and pains were bothering him sooooo much that he couldn't play after Rodgers got hurt.  By CBA he gets two doctors visits and probably found some quack that said he could 'benefit' from season ending surgery.  I hope he loses any appeal and that the Packers refuse to pay for his plane ticket out of town.  Oh, and give that #80 back.  It's been worn by some true legends so don't soil it another minutes a-clown.

[wadesworld]

When things are going well, he can be a great guy and a highly productive player. When things aren't going well, he mails it in and can be a terrible guy in the lockerroom. He's hurt and things are not going well in GB right now. It's a very logical move to dump him.

Excuse my ignorance but does having an "undisclosed injury" mean that he was injured when he signed (which should have been caught during his physical) or that he tried to hide an injury during the season or could it be that he injured himself off the field but didn't fess up?

I was thinking the same thing about passing a physical before officially signing with the Packers.  I heard some doctor or something call into a radio show yesterday and basically say that unless someone tells a doctor what kind of pain they have and what movements cause it and where it is, it's pretty easy to keep a doctor from finding a shoulder injury.  I can't imagine that sports teams give MRIs to all joints or something before giving a player the all clear in a physical.  I would imagine it would be more your "yearly doctor appointment" type stuff to make sure nothing comes up unless there is a known lingering injury they know they need to look into.

[B. McBannerson]

Except the Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassell who did absolutely nothing outside of New England

Cassell made the Pro Bowl for the Chiefs in 2011.  27 TDs, 7 INTS with a 93 passer rating.

[GGGG]

The undisclosed injury was that he claimed to injure himself prior to the bye. But he didn't notify the staff until after he participated in practice the Tuesday after the bye week. Otherwise he would have had to remain in Green Bay for training during the week.

The story is that he quit on the team and was using the injury as an excuse not to play. I heard it reported that he wasn't even on the sidelines last Sunday. He went home to Chicago.

[Dish]

This is not a dig at the city of Green Bay at all, but from the onset, the Bennett signing was wrong guy, wrong city, organization that wasn't going to put up with his crap. The mix to me never felt good.

[jsglow]

The undisclosed injury was that he claimed to injure himself prior to the bye. But he didn't notify the staff until after he participated in practice the Tuesday after the bye week. Otherwise he would have had to remain in Green Bay for training during the week.

The story is that he quit on the team and was using the injury as an excuse not to play. I heard it reported that he wasn't even on the sidelines last Sunday. He went home to Chicago.

JS reporting the same thing (it was technically Monday night).  Now it's just about money.  By Tuesday his locker was being cleaned out.

[MU82]

Cassell made the Pro Bowl for the Chiefs in 2011.  27 TDs, 7 INTS with a 93 passer rating.

Yep.