NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18

[wadesworld]

No, that's not what I said. I believe Kap's protest has created earnest discussion of the issues he's raised among many people ... and I'm sure I could find some of the many articles/columns online to prove this.
What I said it that it is his critics who willfully ignore the substantive issues to instead focus on his clothing, vegan diet, hair, etc.

I don't think wearing a headband or eyeblack espousing some charity would be nearly as successful in drawing public attention to an issue (and what charity do you suggest fort his cause, anyhow?). In fact, I think the vast majority of football fans wouldn't notice or care, and it certainly would go unseen by 100 percent of non-football fans.

Kaepernick's sock choice with pigs in a police hat got more discussion than the real reason Kaepernick says he kneels during the National Anthem.  Why wouldn't his choice of clothing if it had the Statue of Liberty or some symbol of freedom or equality generate discussion?  At the very least it can't hurt, things aren't getting any better as they stand.

Kurt Schilling's clothing got attention for a cause he believed in.

https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2004/10/27/317774/66403/en/Curt-s-ALS-Shoe-Pitch-Seen-by-the-World-Raises-Awareness-of-Lou-Gehrig-s-Disease.html

It happens all the time.  The NBA took a stand against Donald Sterling by wearing shirts, refusing to wear Clippers gear, etc. and he eventually sold the team.

I'd bet being respectful and polite gives you a better shot at positive change than wearing pig in cop hat socks or kneeling during the National Anthem.  Being disrespectful typically seems to create a further divide between people.

[Pakuni]

Kaepernick's sock choice with pigs in a police hat got more discussion than the real reason Kaepernick says he kneels during the National Anthem. 

This obviously is not true.

  Why wouldn't his choice of clothing if it had the Statue of Liberty or some symbol of freedom or equality generate discussion?  At the very least it can't hurt, things aren't getting any better as they stand.

Because nobody would care or notice.

Kurt Schilling's clothing got attention for a cause he believed in.

Schilling may not be the best example.

I'd bet being respectful and polite gives you a better shot at positive change than wearing pig in cop hat socks or kneeling during the National Anthem.  Being disrespectful typically seems to create a further divide between people.

Kap's socks were stupid, but trying to dismiss his entire message because of one idiotic decision about one pair of socks one particular day is simply a means to avoid discussion of the real issues. You're jangling a shiny set of keys in front of an infant.
Pretty much every significant civil rights protest also was viewed as "disrespectful" by those who sought to maintain the status quo.

[wadesworld]

This obviously is not true.

Because nobody would care or notice.

Schilling may not be the best example.



Kap's socks were stupid, but trying to dismiss his entire message because of one idiotic decision about one pair of socks one particular day is simply a means to avoid discussion of the real issues. You're jangling a shiny set of keys in front of an infant.
Pretty much every significant civil rights protest also was viewed as "disrespectful" by those who sought to maintain the status quo.

Schilling raised over $5 million for ALS. His shoes got national publicity when he wrote K ALS on them in Sharpie just like Kaepernick's socks did and just like Kaepernick's clothes would if he wore something drawing attention to the freedoms he feels are being denied from people if he chose that route instead of the disrespectful rout with his choice of clothing.

[reinko]

Kaepernick's sock choice with pigs in a police hat got more discussion than the real reason Kaepernick says he kneels during the National Anthem.  Why wouldn't his choice of clothing if it had the Statue of Liberty or some symbol of freedom or equality generate discussion?  At the very least it can't hurt, things aren't getting any better as they stand.

Kurt Schilling's clothing got attention for a cause he believed in.

https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2004/10/27/317774/66403/en/Curt-s-ALS-Shoe-Pitch-Seen-by-the-World-Raises-Awareness-of-Lou-Gehrig-s-Disease.html

It happens all the time.  The NBA took a stand against Donald Sterling by wearing shirts, refusing to wear Clippers gear, etc. and he eventually sold the team.

I'd bet being respectful and polite gives you a better shot at positive change than wearing pig in cop hat socks or kneeling during the National Anthem.  Being disrespectful typically seems to create a further divide between people.

Couple of winning examples of a vile racist like Donald Sterling and homophobe in Curt Schilling to support your case Wades   

Tell me of your hot takes about social injustice.

[wadesworld]

Couple of winning examples of a vile racist like Donald Sterling and homophobe in Curt Schilling to support your case Wades   

Tell me of your hot takes about social injustice.

So in the Donald Sterling example it's...well, exactly the type of thing that Kaepernick's claims to be standing up against? Lol. Not sure what your point is here...

[wadesworld]

Football isn't officially back until we start seeing the articles on how Jay Cutler looks like he could have an MVP/career year.  Well, football is officially back!  SI.com's front page, main article is about how Jay Cutler looks poised to have a career year in Miami.  Haven't seen this story before. 

Would be pretty freaking funny if it happened, though.

[Jockey]

Football isn't officially back until we start seeing the articles on how Jay Cutler looks like he could have an MVP/career year.  Well, football is officially back!  SI.com's front page, main article is about how Jay Cutler looks poised to have a career year in Miami.  Haven't seen this story before. 

Would be pretty freaking funny if it happened, though.

A career year for Jay really is still a pretty low bar.

[jesmu84]

Football isn't officially back until we start seeing the articles on how Jay Cutler looks like he could have an MVP/career year.  Well, football is officially back!  SI.com's front page, main article is about how Jay Cutler looks poised to have a career year in Miami.  Haven't seen this story before. 

Would be pretty freaking funny if it happened, though.

Nowhere does it mention MVP. Not once. The most positive/hyperbolic line is this (if it's even considered hyperbolic):

Was he a great quarterback? No. Could he be a top-15 quarterback, a good player on a playoff contender, in the right place? Absolutely.

He could have a career year. So what?

[wadesworld]

Nowhere does it mention MVP. Not once. The most positive/hyperbolic line is this (if it's even considered hyperbolic):

He could have a career year. So what?

Not sure where I said it mentioned MVP.  Once or more than once.  I said it wouldn't be football season without an article on how Jay Cutler looks ready to have an MVP/career year.  I've seen MVP thrown around his name in the preseason in years past and I've seen "career year" thrown around, well, every year for Cutler.  Every year in the preseason, "Cutler looks incredible."  Awesome.  Let me know when he values the football in the regular season and I might change my mind on him.  Until then?  Well, "Same Old Jay."

[GGGG]

Not sure where I said it mentioned MVP.  Once or more than once.  I said it wouldn't be football season without an article on how Jay Cutler looks ready to have an MVP/career year.  I've seen MVP thrown around his name in the preseason in years past and I've seen "career year" thrown around, well, every year for Cutler.  Every year in the preseason, "Cutler looks incredible."  Awesome.  Let me know when he values the football in the regular season and I might change my mind on him.  Until then?  Well, "Same Old Jay."

He's no longer a Bear.  You don't need to obsess over him any longer.

[wadesworld]

He's no longer a Bear.  You don't need to obsess over him any longer.

Wasn't really searching anything out.  Went to SI.com where I go a couple times a day.  It happened to be the main article on the front page.  I will remember to ask your permission for which websites I can visit from now on.

[GB Warrior]

Football isn't officially back until we start seeing the articles on how Jay Cutler looks like he could have an MVP/career year.  Well, football is officially back!  SI.com's front page, main article is about how Jay Cutler looks poised to have a career year in Miami.  Haven't seen this story before. 

Would be pretty freaking funny if it happened, though.

Never before has there been a 34-year-old man with this much untapped potential.

4 more years until Tebow is eligible.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Stafford just signed a 5 yr, $135m deal with the lions.  Zero post season wins.  Sub .500 career record.

Makes the Cutler contract with the bears look like a good deal...

[wadesworld]

Stafford just signed a 5 yr, $135m deal with the lions.  Zero post season wins.  Sub .500 career record.

Makes the Cutler contract with the bears look like a good deal...

Stafford's a lot better than Cutler ever was. But Stafford isn't great either.

[DegenerateDish]

I'm surprised Stafford took that deal, he gave the Lions a decent hometown discount. Stafford had 100% leverage here.

No one should ever compare what QB's make to one another. All that matters is when you sign, what the guarantee is, and when the opt out starts.

Cousins will get $26 - $28 mil APY next year from someone. Rodgers will get $30 - $33 mil APY two summers from now.

[#UnleashSean]

Stafford just signed a 5 yr, $135m deal with the lions.  Zero post season wins.  Sub .500 career record.

Makes the Cutler contract with the bears look like a good deal...

Stafford also has a worse team for years than Favre did 2005.

[tower912]

Stafford, like Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson before him, is burdened with a crap team around him.    He may put up his best numbers ever this year (if his line can keep him upright) and it won't matter, as the defensive line is so bad that Detroit will give up 30 a game.   He is the only player on the team other teams actually have to game plan for.   Witness how the season turned last year after he broke a finger on his throwing hand and his efficiency dropped.    Went from possible home field advantage to a wild card loss, as nobody else on the team could make a play.   
   In comparison to Cutler, Stafford is beloved by his teammates and recognized as their leader and best player.   To borrow a phrase from politics, he is a uniter, not a divider.   
   Finally, nobody out there that is better is likely to become available.     
 BTW, due to defensive deficiencies, 6-10.

[4everwarriors]

Rodgers' gonna 'clipse dem all, ai na?

[GGGG]

My favorite Matt Stafford stat: his record v. teams over .500 is 5-46.  Yeah that probably says more about the Lions than anything, but still...

[MerrittsMustache]

   In comparison to Cutler, Stafford is beloved by his teammates and recognized as their leader and best player.   To borrow a phrase from politics, he is a uniter, not a divider.   

It's a common misconception that Cutler is/was disliked by his teammates. Sure, there's an article every once is a while about some random teammate who didn't like him, but if that's the story that a journalist is looking for, he can find it about literally any NFL QB.

Finally, nobody out there that is better is likely to become available.     

This. 90% of starting QBs are "overpaid" because there's just not a surplus out there. Getting rid of an above average QB basically means bottoming out and starting over and hoping that you can draft a QB who will eventually be more than just above average, while knowing that most QBs won't be. Stafford is not "elite," he's not going to be an MVP and he's not a guy who's going to put a team on his back and carry them on a playoff run. Yet, he's still one of the most valuable commodities in sports.

[tower912]

My favorite Matt Stafford stat: his record v. teams over .500 is 5-46.  Yeah that probably says more about the Lions than anything, but still...

It says far more about the rest of the team.    If Derek Carr gets $25 mil a year, $27 for Stafford is not out of line.     How much will Cousins get next year?    Or Brees, should he want to continue?     It is all obscene, but it is the market.   With that settled, maybe they can start putting the pieces around him, particularly on defense.     Of course, this being the Lions, we all know that won't happen and that Stafford is most likely to suffer a season (possibly career) ending injury in the next 6 weeks. 

[MU82]

It's a common misconception that Cutler is/was disliked by his teammates.

Mike Wilbon is a journalist I respect - even if he admits he is a Bears fan - and he said yesterday on PTI that he has talked to "a lot of" Cutler's former teammates who said they disliked Jay and that they believed they would never win big with Jay at QB.

Now, maybe Wilbon is lying (which I doubt, but I guess it's possible) or maybe he is exaggerating (more possible; maybe it was only 2-3 players), or maybe the players he happened to talk to were malcontents, jerks, in a bad mood that day, etc.

But I don't see any source anywhere that would confirm the contention that Cutler was liked and/or respected by the majority of his teammates. I don't know how anybody could determine such a thing, anyway. So Wilbon's personal anecdote is at least as legit as a guy on Scoop saying, "It's a common misconception that Cutler is/was disliked by his teammates." 

Please don't take offense at that, MM. It could have been any guy on Scoop - including me. Just happened to be you in this example.

[MerrittsMustache]

Mike Wilbon is a journalist I respect - even if he admits he is a Bears fan - and he said yesterday on PTI that he has talked to "a lot of" Cutler's former teammates who said they disliked Jay and that they believed they would never win big with Jay at QB.

Now, maybe Wilbon is lying (which I doubt, but I guess it's possible) or maybe he is exaggerating (more possible; maybe it was only 2-3 players), or maybe the players he happened to talk to were malcontents, jerks, in a bad mood that day, etc.

But I don't see any source anywhere that would confirm the contention that Cutler was liked and/or respected by the majority of his teammates. I don't know how anybody could determine such a thing, anyway. So Wilbon's personal anecdote is at least as legit as a guy on Scoop saying, "It's a common misconception that Cutler is/was disliked by his teammates." 

Please don't take offense at that, MM. It could have been any guy on Scoop - including me. Just happened to be you in this example.

No offense taken.

Although he's Bears fan, Wilbon HATES Jay Cutler (he also hates Pace and Trubisky, FWIW). He's not exactly an unbiased source and perhaps he talked to 5 guys and considers that to be "a lot." Who knows? But like I said, it's not hard to find players who don't like a teammate. I'm sure Wilbon could also find "a lot" of teammates who don't like Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady or you-name-him.

Jermon Bushrod described Cutler as "a great teammate" and "a good lockerroom guy." Back-up QB David Fales said Cutler was "one of the more influential people in my career." Kyle Long and Zach Miller tweeted high praise for Cutler when he was released. Cam Meredith and OC Dowell Loggains both said that the perception of Jay being bad in the lockerroom is incorrect. Yes, I understand that it's also not hard to find players who DO like a teammate but those comments certainly don't fit the media narrative of Cutler being a bad lockerroom guy.

Sidenote: If guys don't respect Cutler because he's an anti-vaxxers then that's completely legit 

[tower912]

No one calling out AR for supporting Kaepernick.    Must be a coincidence.

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/30/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-supports-anthem-protests-colin-kaepernick/

[wadesworld]

Brooks to the Packers.  Some depth for when Clay is out every other series.  Would love for the Packers to go after Haden, but it sounds like they're not in the running.