The Next SLU

[The Lens]

Now it makes sense why Fr. Pilarz wanted us to be the next SLU:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18650745/saint-louis-billikens-bus-goes-missing-driver-arrested-dwi-charge

[muguru]

The last few years on the court has resembled SLU sadly enough.

[MerrittsMustache]

The last few years on the court has resembled SLU sadly enough.

Really?

SLU 2014-15: 11-21 (3-15 in A10)
SLU 2015-16: 11-21 (5-13 in A10) - fired coach
SLU 2016-17: 8-16 (3-8 in A10)

MU 2014-15: 13-19 (4-14 in BE)
MU 2015-16: 20-13 (8-10 in BE)
MU 2016-17: 15-9 (6-6 in BE)

[Lennys Tap]

Really?

SLU 2014-15: 11-21 (3-15 in A10)
SLU 2015-16: 11-21 (5-13 in A10) - fired coach
SLU 2016-17: 8-16 (3-8 in A10)

MU 2014-15: 13-19 (4-14 in BE)
MU 2015-16: 20-13 (8-10 in BE)
MU 2016-17: 15-9 (6-6 in BE)

We became SLU.

SLU became DePaul.

[#UnleashSean]

We became SLU.

SLU became DePaul.

Hes not wrong

[MerrittsMustache]

Prior to "becoming DePaul," SLU made the NCAAs 3 straight years as a 9-seed, 4-seed and 5-seed. I'd take that the next 3 seasons...as long as MU doesn't become DePaul in Year 4!

[Windyplayer]

This is the essence of a message board.

[Zephyr820]

SLU is currently 290th.  They finished last year at 225 and the year before at 289.

During that stretch, DePaul has seen 150,182, and 177.

Saint Louis is not remotely close to as good of a program as DePaul.  They have played in only eight NCAA Tournaments since 1952 and have NEVER played more than two games in any Tournament.  Frankly, no one is as good of a proxy as Detroit Mercy.  It is a terrible program.

[Silkk the Shaka]

This is the essence of a message board.

And message boards... are the essence of beauty

[MDMU04]

http://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/real-bad-night-for-the-saint-louis-basketball-team-lose-to-st-bonaventure-bus-driver-gets-drunk-on-box-of-wine-and-leaves-them-at-the-arena/

This isn't something that would happen even to DePaul.

[Galway Eagle]

they bus from SLU to St Bonaventure? Even Depaul doesn't do that

[drewm88]

they bus from SLU to St Bonaventure? Even Depaul doesn't do that

You need a bus to get from airport to arena.

[4everwarriors]

Worst thin' happened ta da Billikens was Rick dyin', hey?

[Goose]

4ever

I would take the Rick SLU program right now. How about you?

[Windyplayer]

And message boards... are the essence of beauty

Let's not forget about wetness.

[Daniel]

Learn defense and we are a ranked team.  Maybe we get better at that next year....

[muguru]

Really?

SLU 2014-15: 11-21 (3-15 in A10)
SLU 2015-16: 11-21 (5-13 in A10) - fired coach
SLU 2016-17: 8-16 (3-8 in A10)

MU 2014-15: 13-19 (4-14 in BE)
MU 2015-16: 20-13 (8-10 in BE)
MU 2016-17: 15-9 (6-6 in BE)

And you find this acceptable?? This is flat out NOT acceptable for a program that has the tradition MU has. The point is, SLU is irrelevant in the National Basketball landscape, and sadly, MU has become irrelevant as well. At least in comparison to where they were 4 years ago.

[GGGG]

And you find this acceptable?? This is flat out NOT acceptable for a program that has the tradition MU has. The point is, SLU is irrelevant in the National Basketball landscape, and sadly, MU has become irrelevant as well. At least in comparison to where they were 4 years ago.

He neither said nor implied that he found it acceptable.

[4everwarriors]

4ever

I would take the Rick SLU program right now. How about you?

I'm still on da give Wojo more time wagon 'cuz of da chitstorm he inherited. Loved da HE signin', but witout da asst coach out der hustlin', not sure watt da hell talent level wood bee in dis program write now. Steve is seein' skills dat I just don't see. Subsequently, he's put tagether a squad wit like abilities and like deficiencies. One of da reasons dey r weak defensively is 'cuz ders no quickness as a team. Deyr slow to da ball and can't beet anyone off da dribble. Plus wee need some dudes wit attitude. Got a bunch of choir boys, and sopranos at dat.
I wish da younguns here could experience and understand watt we old cockers here mean when wee rap Warrior basketball. 'Cuz, day have no clue. Simply graspin' at straws and silver linin's, ai na?

[MU82]

And you find this acceptable?? This is flat out NOT acceptable for a program that has the tradition MU has. The point is, SLU is irrelevant in the National Basketball landscape, and sadly, MU has become irrelevant as well. At least in comparison to where they were 4 years ago.

Please point out where he said it was acceptable.

And nice to have you back, guru. We missed you when the team you purport to love was winning.

[muguru]

Please point out where he said it was acceptable.

And nice to have you back, guru. We missed you when the team you purport to love was winning.

I never said he implied he found it acceptable..I was asking him if he did, since he seemed to want to make the comparison that MU has not become SLU by using the last 3 years as criteria..simply put, MU and SLU BB should be on two different planets, and quite frankly right now, they aren't..both are basically irrelevant.

I'm around when they lose, which is more often then they should be for my tastes, especially at home. It's tiring.

[Goose]

Doc

I have not given up on Wojo either. That said, it is very frustrating because I do not see a bright light at the end of the tunnel. His getting HE was extremely big and that gives some hope for the future. I agree that we do not have any toughness at this point. I know you tired of Buzz, but his teams brought toughness and attitude every game. I remember after the WVU you and I posting on here how MU had become the program of inner city Milwaukee.
It is funny, but most on here were happy we lost McKay and Burton and I think both were big losses for the program. We need a couple of Burton's on the squad badly. I am very happy to see hi performing well at ISU and I am not surprised one bit.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And you find this acceptable?? This is flat out NOT acceptable for a program that has the tradition MU has. The point is, SLU is irrelevant in the National Basketball landscape, and sadly, MU has become irrelevant as well. At least in comparison to where they were 4 years ago.

The last two seasons I consider acceptable. We're a good program but not so good that we are guaranteed a big every year. The first year I don't but I blame that on the coaching change. Not much to be done.

Y'all really don't understand how irrelevant saint Louis is. We're nowhere near them and were trending up.

[MU82]

I'm around when they lose, which is more often then they should be for my tastes, especially at home. It's tiring.

I bet it's tiring for you to be such a sad individual who cannot celebrate beating Villanova or Creighton but has no problem piling on after tough losses.

Happy, well-adjusted people stop and smell the roses. I worry about folks who can only stop and smell the horsepoop.

[MerrittsMustache]

And you find this acceptable?? This is flat out NOT acceptable for a program that has the tradition MU has. The point is, SLU is irrelevant in the National Basketball landscape, and sadly, MU has become irrelevant as well. At least in comparison to where they were 4 years ago.

First of all, you're overstating Marquette's basketball tradition. MU had a great 3-year run in the tourney under Buzz but aside from that run, the '03 FF and the '94 E8, MU hasn't exactly been a national power. The height of MU's tradition happened nearly 40 years ago. Since Hank Raymonds' last season in 1982-83, MU has missed the NCAAT 19 times and made it 14 times. Let's not act like we're used to consistently hanging National Championship banners. (insert Great Alaska Shootout banner joke here)

Also, MU is NOT irrelevant. If MU finishes in the top half of the BE and makes the NCAAT, that's a very good season for Year 3 of what has basically been a tear-down/rebuild of the roster. Sure, I want MU to be a perennial national title contender but that's not reasonable at this point.

I never said he implied he found it acceptable..I was asking him if he did, since he seemed to want to make the comparison that MU has not become SLU by using the last 3 years as criteria..simply put, MU and SLU BB should be on two different planets, and quite frankly right now, they aren't..both are basically irrelevant.

SLU has been on the decline for the last 3 seasons while Marquette is a program on the rise.

Buzz was able to put together some patchwork teams of transfers and JUCOs and he had an outstanding run at MU but eventually that philosophy caught up with him and the cupboard was left bare. Wojo is attempting to build a program by developing 4-year players. Sure, he's going to take in a grad transfer as a stopgap but for the most part, he's bringing in freshmen.

Buzz's style was more like the Tribune-owned Cubs where they'd patch things together and hope to make a run, which they did a few times. Wojo's style is more like the Theo-run Cubs where he wants to build the team from the ground up. That takes time and patience and is incredibly frustrating at times...but the payoff can be sweet!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

4ever

I would take the Rick SLU program right now. How about you?

I personally wouldn't. The program was still poor, they just had an amazing coach. When Rick passed, they returned from their brief moment in the sun to relative obscurity.

I would however take Rick (SLU version) coaching at our program in a heartbeat. Like Rick did, Wojo will have to go through some growing pains before he becomes a finished product.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It is funny, but most on here were happy we lost McKay and Burton and I think both were big losses for the program. We need a couple of Burton's on the squad badly. I am very happy to see hi performing well at ISU and I am not surprised one bit.

I don't think anyone was happy that we lost McKay or Burton. I remember specifically posting after Burton that he was the best player we had ever lost to transfer. I think most people took more of a mindset of "If they don't want to be here than screw em!" Which is about all we can do as fans.

Burton on this team would make our offense monstrous. Our defense probably would have gotten worse but I don't know that any team would have been able to keep up with us.

[Goose]

TAMU

You have short memory on those two transfer comments from posters on here. Losing Burton was a big loss and many were happy to see him go. As for McKay, he was a virtual unknown to most on here, are they were in favor of 9th year senior CO getting the playing time.

Again, few shed tears on Burton and many posted his shortcomings last year and are now silent. He was a big time D1 player and played with authority.

[muguru]

I bet it's tiring for you to be such a sad individual who cannot celebrate beating Villanova or Creighton but has no problem piling on after tough losses.

Happy, well-adjusted people stop and smell the roses. I worry about folks who can only stop and smell the horsepoop.

Oh i celebrated those wins..but I also then thought that might have been a sign that MU was back..until they pissed down their legs and lost 2 games that i wouldnt have in a million years thought they'd lose..especially Providence..at home.

[RJax55]

Jameel McKay left under Buzz. Bringing him up in a discussion about Wojo is silly.

[MarquetteDano]

I would however take Rick (SLU version) coaching at our program in a heartbeat. Like Rick did, Wojo will have to go through some growing pains before he becomes a finished product.

My biggest fear is that Wojo takes awhile to become a finished product,  has 2-3 good years, and then bolts.  Because if  that happens this will not have been worth it.

[RJax55]

My biggest fear is that Wojo takes awhile to become a finished product,  has 2-3 good years, and then bolts.  Because it that happens this will not have been worth it.

The hope would be that Wojo would have built a strong foundation that could be handed over (perhaps to an internal candidate). Both Xavier and Butler have been able to both survive and thrive with coaching turnover.

With that said, can't have another Buzz transition where the next guy is left with nothing.

[Goose]

RJax

Fully understand when McKay left the program. My point was twofold, #1 that is the type of player missing from program and #2 folks on here were happy to see a player like him leave.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

My biggest fear is that Wojo takes awhile to become a finished product,  has 2-3 good years, and then bolts.  Because if  that happens this will not have been worth it.

Wojo has said multiple times that he wants to build something.  Something like K did at Duke.  I think he knows he can build that at Marquette, and thats why he waited for that opportunity to leave Duke.  I could see him leaving for a Duke or another blue blood, but lets be honest, we're a long way away from that.  I think Wojo is a long term answer if the administration allows him to be. 

[brewcity77]

TAMU

You have short memory on those two transfer comments from posters on here. Losing Burton was a big loss and many were happy to see him go. As for McKay, he was a virtual unknown to most on here, are they were in favor of 9th year senior CO getting the playing time.

Again, few shed tears on Burton and many posted his shortcomings last year and are now silent. He was a big time D1 player and played with authority.

Burton still plays matador defense and shoots way too much for his efficiency. He has the worst eFG% and highest usage on his team. I'm not disappointed he isn't here.

Is he talented? Sure. But he wouldn't fix any of the problems on our team.

[GGGG]

Burton is the type of Buzz guy that drove everyone crazy with his athleticism mixed with inconsistency.  Had Buzz stayed here, I think he would have been molded into very nice player.  Him and Wojo didn't mix.  No fault to either.

[Golden Avalanche]

4ever

I would take the Rick SLU program right now. How about you?

Perfect chance to ask my weekly question to you: Why waste your time and be here?

Your ride is over, move on to that which you can enjoy without moaning.

[cheese ball chaser]

The hope would be that Wojo would have built a strong foundation that could be handed over (perhaps to an internal candidate). Both Xavier and Butler have been able to both survive and thrive with coaching turnover.

With that said, can't have another Buzz transition where the next guy is left with nothing.

As pissed as I would be if Wojo left, Stan Johnson taking over would ease the sting.

[GGGG]

As pissed as I would be if Wojo left, Stan Johnson taking over would ease the sting.

Do we have any indication he can coach?

[rocky_warrior]

You have short memory on those two transfer comments from posters on here. Losing Burton was a big loss and many were happy to see him go. As for McKay, he was a virtual unknown to most on here, are they were in favor of 9th year senior CO getting the playing time.

Again, few shed tears on Burton and many posted his shortcomings last year and are now silent. He was a big time D1 player and played with authority.

Wrong.  I only went through two pages of the thread, but only a few shortcomings mentions (defensive), certainly no "happy" to see him gone.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=45613.0

[Goose]

Golden

Thanks for the advice, again. It is the wait, see and hope attitude of fans like you that make SLU a possibility.
Just curious, do you expectations of the program? If so, at what point do you get frustrated.
For the record, I have not given hope on Wojo, but believe our trajectory is not where it needs to be at this point.
Again, appreciate your advice. Always a good idea to insult "old guys".

[Goose]

Rocky

I am guessing you are referring to Burton and when he left everyone wished him good luck. Most mentions of him post leaving were negative, with usual guys bashing him in various ways.
Anytime someone leaves it turns sour six months later. His leaving was a loss to the program and many here felt otherwise.

[tower912]

Goose, I think you are co-mingling 'negative' with 'objective analysis of his strengths and weaknesses' and whether he would help a given team.   He would have helped the 14-15 team.    Not so sure about the 15-16 team.    Would not have helped this year's team.    Why?   Look at his strengths and weaknesses.    I have watched him play twice this year.    He still plays matador defense.   He still is a black hole on offense.    He has improved at rebounding, he goes after the ball now instead of only corralling those that come to him.    He is undersized.     
This year's team is undersized, shoots well, and defends poorly.      The last thing it needs is another undersized, poor defending, volume scorer.   

And yes, if Wojo doesn't pan out, it will be several years until MU is relevant again nationally.    Better all start praying for Wojo.   

[Goose]

Tower

I want Wojo to pan out. I loved the feeling of two weeks ago. Would like to repeat that over and over again.

[muguru]

Tower

I want Wojo to pan out. I loved the feeling of two weeks ago. Would like to repeat that over and over again.

I would like to see MU be the team that gets knocked off from being #1. I want this program back to where it was 4 years ago...knocking on the door of elite status. That seems a loooooooooong ways away right now.

[tower912]

I can't find the origin of the Larry Williams St. Louis story.  When and where and quotes.

[Newsdreams]

Rocky

I am guessing you are referring to Burton and when he left everyone wished him good luck. Most mentions of him post leaving were negative, with usual guys bashing him in various ways.
Anytime someone leaves it turns sour six months later. His leaving was a loss to the program and many here felt otherwise.

Think you are wrong on Burton. Most people here really liked him and the only beef was his lack of D intensity sometimes plus he would go crazy shot happy and he still does. One of my sons went to ISU so I follow them. Burton to this day says that after his mother died he had to get away from MKE because he could not concentrate on the game. I can imagine as a teenager loosing his mother must have been an extremely devastating experience and why he would want to go away. Plus Wojo was not the guy who recruited him. Finally Mackay and Burton were friends and that made perfect.

[The Lens]

Do we have any indication he can coach?

Well the dude can dress.  His sideline swagger rivals Buzz's.   I like sartorial confidence.

[Bocephys]

I can't find the origin of the Larry Williams St. Louis story.  When and where and quotes.

Looks like it was Maybe Pilarz?  I've spent too much time on this already:

In fairness to Lab, a lot of the speculation around here is on various topics that have some factual support.

Example: We know Buzz was recruiting X player because he was spotted at his games, so a rumor saying that MU signed X player is plausible.

In this case, a new boss(es), some off the court issues and bad PR MIGHT have created friction between Buzz and the MU administration. Fine.

But, there aren't a ton of tangible facts that we have seen that support this, and that's where the board went off the rails.

What I read:
- Larry wants to be more like ND or Northwestern
- Larry is a "Football guy"
- Pilarz/BOT think MU's athletic budget is out of control, would like it to be more like SLU
- MU is dumb because they changed the nickname, and they will probably run Buzz out of town too!
- Some well healed alums might be sneaky racist and would like more white players
- MU lets Buzz recruit players no other coach was allowed to (cheap shot BTW)
- MU might hate JUCOS
- Larry's JS quotes were mean

For me, that's where everything went sideways. To say there might be some friction seems plausible, but the ensuing thought process of some was insane and didn't make any sense.

Most of the people here are alumni. We're smart people. We shouldn't fall for some of this sh*t.

[GGGG]

I miss Canned Goods & Ammo.

[Bocephys]

I miss Canned Goods & Ammo.

He and lab_warrior were blasts from the past.  I also witnessed some good Hoopaloop in those threads.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I miss Canned Goods & Ammo.

I have been thinking about you alot [sic] since last weekend. A whole lot.

[shoothoops]

Majerus could win with "good enough" players and he did that at several different schools. Other coaches need to recruit. SLU has not had a good recruiter, well, next to never. Porter Moser recruited most of Majerus' players while Chris Herriman recruited the Australians. I would be thrilled if Marquette could have a Majerus at SLU program. Hopefully Marquette can get it going and keep it going under Wojo.

Majerus took the SLU job because there were new commitments to the program. Richard Chaiffetz' money. $81 million new Arena on campus., etc...

Then it is about hiring a coach that can recruit. Enter Travis Ford. Ford quickly hires Corey Tate, ex St. Louis Eagles AAU coach, (Thanks to the generous donations of former Eagle Bradley Beal, the team has changed its name to Bradley Beal Elite) former Mizzou Tiger player and coach, and former Juco coach.  Tate has delivered Gordon, Goodwin, Thatch, and is on many others. They also added French whom Marquette also recruited. Larry Hughes of 40pts on Mike Bargen fame at the BC is a regular at practice and games. So they are getting players, and we'll see about player development and x's and o's as it goes.

It takes new coaches 3-5 years to get it going. 3 is short, 4 is average, 5 is long.  This is season one for Ford. He inherited a mess.

SLU just built two new dorms well over $100 million and they will be renovating a third one. They will also be adding a new $500 million hospital. And, they will be overseeing $1billion in new 400 acre development near campus.

And SLU no longer has to be concerned about its previously departed school President.

Life is trending upward there.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Until they go bankrupt

[Loose Cannon]

We became SLU.

SLU became DePaul.

Yep I remember when SLU beat a Number.

[sodakmu87]

I'm still on da give Wojo more time wagon 'cuz of da chitstorm he inherited. Loved da HE signin', but witout da asst coach out der hustlin', not sure watt da hell talent level wood bee in dis program write now. Steve is seein' skills dat I just don't see. Subsequently, he's put tagether a squad wit like abilities and like deficiencies. One of da reasons dey r weak defensively is 'cuz ders no quickness as a team. Deyr slow to da ball and can't beet anyone off da dribble. Plus wee need some dudes wit attitude. Got a bunch of choir boys, and sopranos at dat.
I wish da younguns here could experience and understand watt we old cockers here mean when wee rap Warrior basketball. 'Cuz, day have no clue. Simply graspin' at straws and silver linin's, ai na?

Fascinating.   I did not realize there was a Google translate app for Milwaukee lingo!

[slingkong]

I'm around when they lose, which is more often then they should be for my tastes, especially at home. It's tiring.

You're right, snowflake, you deserve more. They owe you.

[MU82]

When all else fails ... compare MU to SLU.

It's an oldie but a goody. Always gets the crowd on its feet!

[tower912]

I did go back and find bma's take-down of ners.  Made the whole search worth it.

[jesmu84]

I did go back and find bma's take-down of ners.  Made the whole search worth it.

Where's that guy been? Used to be a better place with him around. Other boards?

[tower912]

He has been gone for years.  Read the take-down.

[cheebs09]

He has been gone for years.  Read the take-down.

A "bma" came back, but it was just Chicos.

[tower912]

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=28095.msg324636#msg324636


In going through some of these threads to find this, I realize that there have been many times that the dissension and accusations on this board have been every bit as bad as they are now.   

[MU82]

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=28095.msg324636#msg324636


In going through some of these threads to find this, I realize that there have been many times that the dissension and accusations on this board have been every bit as bad as they are now.   

That's good stuff.

Funny that he was ripping Ners for fallating Buzz ... and within a few years Ners spent months and months attacking Buzz over Awesome Dawson and other such stuff. Love it.

[JakeBarnes]

Let's not forget about wetness.

And moisture