NBA '17

[DegenerateDish]

LBJ has a full no trade clause.

[reinko]

LBJ has a full no trade clause.

I imagined as such, but I was in the hypothetical world.

But honest question, what's the market for one year rental of LBJ?

Again, not gonna happen, and spare the salary cap stuff, but If I am the Wolves, would you trade Wiggins and a #1 for one year of LBJ and take a shot?  Butler, Towns, LBJ, with a supporting cast of Gibson, Teague, and Crawford is pretty formidable.

Again, never gonna happen, but just seeing what folks think of a hypothetical.

[WarriorFan]

LBJ has a full no trade clause.

Darn... I think the best move for Cleveland is to keep Kyrie, dump (trade) LeBron for draft picks and build for the future.  Kyrie is 25, already great and has upside.  Lebron is 32 and has no more upside.  Yes, he's great and all that but he is also part of the problem.

[tower912]

Darn... I think the best move for Cleveland is to keep Kyrie, dump (trade) LeBron for draft picks and build for the future.  Kyrie is 25, already great and has upside.  Lebron is 32 and has no more upside.  Yes, he's great and all that but he is also part of the problem.

"The problem."    Cleveland has been to 3 straight finals.     Year one, Love and Kyrie didn't play.    Year 2, Cleveland won.   Year 3, Golden State built a super team while Cleveland basically stood pat.     There is no problem.    Cleveland will probably go to the finals every year until Lebron retires.  How is that a problem?    "The Problem" is Golden State has a near all-star team level starting line up.  Dreaming up hypothetical super teams in the east to beat them.      Cleveland's only problem is that Durant joined Curry, Thompson, and Green.  And there really isn't a solution for that. 

[GGGG]

"The problem."    Cleveland has been to 3 straight finals.     Year one, Love and Kyrie didn't play.    Year 2, Cleveland won.   Year 3, Golden State built a super team while Cleveland basically stood pat.     There is no problem.    Cleveland will probably go to the finals every year until Lebron retires.  How is that a problem?    "The Problem" is Golden State has a near all-star team level starting line up.  Dreaming up hypothetical super teams in the east to beat them.      Cleveland's only problem is that Durant joined Curry, Thompson, and Green.  And there really isn't a solution for that. 

Thank you.  I was trying to figure out how to counter the argument that LBJ is "part of the problem."  The guy's been to 7 straight NBA Finals and won three of them.

Dumping him to rebuild would be nuts, even if he leaves via free agency next year.  Rebuilding isn't easy.  Ask the Bulls how the last 20 years have gone. 

[wadesworld]

If I'm the Cavs I'm standing pat where I am.  Sure, if someone offers me a nice package for Kyrie (or Love) I'll pull the trigger, but how likely is that?  Jabari and Moose and a first for Kyrie?  Not right now, maybe in a year if Jabari shows he's healthy and a star.  Bledsoe and ??  Nope.  Melo and some picks?  Heck no.

I'll go to the Finals, lose in 5, and see if Kyrie wants to be "the man" in Cleveland going forward.  If not I'll trade him then, after LeBron leaves.

[MerrittsMustache]

"The problem."    Cleveland has been to 3 straight finals.     Year one, Love and Kyrie didn't play.    Year 2, Cleveland won.   Year 3, Golden State built a super team while Cleveland basically stood pat.     There is no problem.    Cleveland will probably go to the finals every year until Lebron retires.  How is that a problem?    "The Problem" is Golden State has a near all-star team level starting line up.  Dreaming up hypothetical super teams in the east to beat them.      Cleveland's only problem is that Durant joined Curry, Thompson, and Green.  And there really isn't a solution for that.

Thank you.  I was trying to figure out how to counter the argument that LBJ is "part of the problem."  The guy's been to 7 straight NBA Finals and won three of them.

Dumping him to rebuild would be nuts, even if he leaves via free agency next year.  Rebuilding isn't easy.  Ask the Bulls how the last 20 years have gone. 

My initial guess was that he believed LBJ to be "part of the problem" because of the big contracts for his guys Smith and Thompson, but I don't actually think that's what he means. Now I'm thinking that because LeBron is 32 without much upside (although, how much higher can he possibly go?) that means he's an aging superstar which is somehow a problem. Referencing the Bulls was spot-on, Sultan. You hang on to your superstars as long as possible.

[tower912]

How can there be 'upside' remaining on a player in the GOAT conversation that has been to 7 straight finals.    LBJ will be a force of nature for a couple more years.    You ride that thoroughbred as long as you can and worry about the future when he retires. 

[MUBurrow]

Yup yup yup. You're in outer space on a LBJ rocket - its your only ship and you have to ride it even as pieces are flying off as it re-enters the atmosphere. 

My two cents on Cleveland's nonsensical offseason is that their biggest mistake was their refusal to just acknowledge that LBJ could dictate all of their player personnel decisions.  I don't know who in the organization was the opposition to that (my guess is that on Mondays, Wednesdays and Sundays it was Gilbert, because he's totally inconsistent and unhinged) - but what really would have been the harm in it? Griffin was largely an LBJ surrogate, and that's fine. What Michael wanted back in the day, he got. Same with LBJ. You don't give a combined $95 million to Tristan Thompson, JR Smith and Iman Shumpert, and then just fire the faux-LeBron GM anyway. What the hell is the point of that?

[MU82]

Maybe LeBron will waive the no-trade if he can swing a deal to Golden State!

Put him on that team and they'd win a best-of-7 series in 2 games!!

[GB Warrior]

http://deadspin.com/giannis-antetokounmpo-gently-defends-kevin-durants-okc-1797205365

Starts drinking heavily

[reinko]

Great breakdown on the potential market for Kyrie.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20144300/zach-lowe-kyrie-irving-cleveland-cavaliers-potential-trades-nba

Ones that stood to me, are an Isiah, Crowder, and one of the first rounders from Brooklyn or the Lakers, or a Bucks trade with Brogan, Middleton and some first rounders.

[GGGG]

http://deadspin.com/giannis-antetokounmpo-gently-defends-kevin-durants-okc-1797205365

Starts drinking heavily

He's under contract for three more seasons. Don't worry.

[GGGG]

Great breakdown on the potential market for Kyrie.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20144300/zach-lowe-kyrie-irving-cleveland-cavaliers-potential-trades-nba

Ones that stood to me, are an Isiah, Crowder, and one of the first rounders from Brooklyn or the Lakers, or a Bucks trade with Brogan, Middleton and some first rounders.

I would not make that trade if I were the Bucks. I don't think Kyrie is worth that.

[GB Warrior]

I would not make that trade if I were the Bucks. I don't think Kyrie is worth that.

Agree. The defense each provides tips the scale.

[Jockey]

Darn... I think the best move for Cleveland is to keep Kyrie, dump (trade) LeBron for draft picks and build for the future.  Kyrie is 25, already great and has upside.  Lebron is 32 and has no more upside.  Yes, he's great and all that but he is also part of the problem.

I assume you mean the problem of getting to the NBA Finals every year. As I said earlier, a team that has Kyrie as its best player will not get to the Finals.

[reinko]

I would not make that trade if I were the Bucks. I don't think Kyrie is worth that.

Fake news. You sell high on Brogdan, trade a good SG, and an unknown #1 pick for a top 20 NBA player who is only 25 with still 2 years left on their contract.

[GGGG]

I don't think Kyrie is as good as you do.

[reinko]

I don't think Kyrie is as good as you do.

Hey, why not we fight about it for the next week, make it personal, and have it devolve into a thread that gets locked?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I'm torn, on one hand I hate the Warriors and never want to see them win another title so long as Durant and Draymond are there and on the other hand I can't stand Derrick Rose and never want to see him win a ring.

Better hope someone else makes it out of the East. I'm looking at you Boston...

[MU82]

Apparently, Kyrie is a complete d-bag. If you don't have an alpha dog like LeBron on your team to keep him at least reasonably in check, you've got a recipe for disaster.

As another Scooper said, you never want him to be your best player.

[reinko]

Apparently, Kyrie is a complete d-bag. If you don't have an alpha dog like LeBron on your team to keep him at least reasonably in check, you've got a recipe for disaster.

As another Scooper said, you never want him to be your best player.

Or he sees the writing on the wall, with LBJ leaving in a year, a terrible off season, an aging roster, an average coach, a tool of an owner and an opportunity to help control his own destiny (like LBJ has done repeatedly).  Everything in the news have all been leaks from the Cavs so far, so methinks they have an agenda.

[wadesworld]

Or he sees the writing on the wall, with LBJ leaving in a year, a terrible off season, an aging roster, an average coach, a tool of an owner and an opportunity to help control his own destiny (like LBJ has done repeatedly).  Everything in the news have all been leaks from the Cavs so far, so methinks they have an agenda.

So their agenda is to drive down the trade value of a guy who asked them to trade him? Hmm. If that's really what they're doing then my thought that there's no franchise more incompetent than the Knicks is certainly untrue.

These guys are all egomaniacs. None moreso than LeBron Blames, which makes the other giant egomaniac want out to be able to call his own shot. He sees one star get everything and anything and thinks, "Hey, why not me?" He had his opportunity to control his own destiny and chose to sign long term with the Cavs. Then LBJ came along and now here we are.

As far as Giannis's comment goes, thankfully Russell Westbrook isn't his point guard. It's one thing to be blocked from a ring by an all time great team while going down with the ball in my hands consistently. It's another to have a PG who's going to shoot the ball 43 times in the Playoffs. Kyrie will also surely fit that bill at his next stop. Bucks FO, be warned.

[Jockey]

These guys are all egomaniacs. None moreso than LeBron Blames, which makes the other giant egomaniac want out to be able to call his own shot. He sees one star get everything and anything and thinks, "Hey, why not me?" He had his opportunity to control his own destiny and chose to sign long term with the Cavs. Then LBJ came along and now here we are.

Maybe cuz the other guy is a guarantee to be in the NBA Finals every year.

[Jockey]

I'm torn, on one hand I hate the Warriors and never want to see them win another title so long as Durant and Draymond are there and on the other hand I can't stand Derrick Rose and never want to see him win a ring.

Better hope someone else makes it out of the East. I'm looking at you Boston...

I understand hating certain teams. Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame, the Knicks - all do it for me. I don't get the player hate, though.

By all accounts, Durant is a model citizen who gives much to charity.

Draymond is exactly the kind of guy you should love. The anti-Rose. A guy who gives 110% all the time with no excuses. A guy who will play any position asked without fail whether it is against a quicker '3' or a much bigger '4' or '5'. A guy who holds everyone on the team to a high standard whether it is Steph or KD or the 12th guy on the roster.