NBA '17

[Pakuni]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19834944/nba-forsberg-celtics-acquiring-gordon-hayward-analysis

Hayward's arrival will force the Celtics to tweak their roster in order to fund the four-year, $128 million contract he'll ink. Boston started that process Tuesday night by rescinding its qualifying offer to center Kelly Olynyk, which made the floor-stretching big an unrestricted free agent.

Boston will likely renounce its rights to a series of veteran free agents such as Jonas Jerebko and Gerald Green (players who could always come back on low-cost deals), waive the non-guaranteed salary of Jordan Mickey and waive or trade the partially guaranteed contract of Demetrius Jackson.

The harder decision looms with moving at least one key rotation player in order to fully create max cap space. The Celtics will consider the trade market for Avery Bradley (a free agent after this coming season), Marcus Smart (restricted next summer) and Jae Crowder (still on a sweetheart deal, but that could increase his trade value).

4 of the guys in bold are players I'd rather have - just one of them mind you - than both LaVine & Dunn

So you're telling us you wouldn't trade Kelly Olynyk for Zach LaVine and Kris Dunn?
You wouldn't trade Marcus Smart - a guard who shoots 29 percent from behind the arc -  for Zach LaVine and Kris Dunn?
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'd be very surprised if many shares yours.
But hey, Smart or Crowder is about to be dealt. We'll see if they bring back a return comparable to Dunn and LaVine.

[wadesworld]

When the C's trade for Marc Gasol it will have been a complete no brainer to keep the pieces they traded for him around for that trade and get Hayward in free agency over getting Butler in a trade and not having the pieces to trade for Gasol.

[MU82]

When the C's trade for Marc Gasol it will have been a complete no brainer to keep the pieces they traded for him around for that trade and get Hayward in free agency over getting Butler in a trade and not having the pieces to trade for Gasol.

Well, I definitely agree with this. If Gasol to Boston happens, it will have been a nice bit of work by Ainge and Stevens. That's two fine pieces to the puzzle for a bunch of spare parts and cash.

That certainly would be an Eastern Conference championship team (as it almost was this past season). Still, if the goal is to beat the Warriors, I'm not sure how Gasol even stays on the court much. Who does he defend? KD? But I guess you worry about the Cavs first and maybe hope the Warriors get upset by somebody in the WC!

[MerrittsMustache]

Well, I definitely agree with this. If Gasol to Boston happens, it will have been a nice bit of work by Ainge and Stevens. That's two fine pieces to the puzzle for a bunch of spare parts and cash.

That certainly would be an Eastern Conference championship team (as it almost was this past season). Still, if the goal is to beat the Warriors, I'm not sure how Gasol even stays on the court much. Who does he defend? KD? But I guess you worry about the Cavs first and maybe hope the Warriors get upset by somebody in the WC!

There's maybe a 25% chance that Boston lands Gasol and it's more likely to happen in-season. Boston would also likely have to give up Brown or Tatum plus a few unprotected picks and they're likely going to deal Crowder and/or Bradley this offseason, plus IT would then almost certainly be gone after this season. It's an odd retooling going on in Boston right now. I think Ainge recognizes 1) the East is VERY weak and 2) Rondo's injury saved his team from getting bounced in the 1st Round by a bad team so changes were needed.

When all is said and done, I'm not sure they wouldn't have been better off just trading Crowder, Zeller's contract and Pick #3 to the Bulls for Butler.

[MU82]

There's maybe a 25% chance that Boston lands Gasol and it's more likely to happen in-season. Boston would also likely have to give up Brown or Tatum plus a few unprotected picks and they're likely going to deal Crowder and/or Bradley this offseason, plus IT would then almost certainly be gone after this season. It's an odd retooling going on in Boston right now. I think Ainge recognizes 1) the East is VERY weak and 2) Rondo's injury saved his team from getting bounced in the 1st Round by a bad team so changes were needed.

When all is said and done, I'm not sure they wouldn't have been better off just trading Crowder, Zeller's contract and Pick #3 to the Bulls for Butler.

I guess we'll see. There's a lot of conjecture there in your first paragraph ... but I guess that's what all of us are doing now.

[MerrittsMustache]

I guess we'll see. There's a lot of conjecture there in your first paragraph ... but I guess that's what all of us are doing now.

Maybe, maybe not. I'll give you that the Gasol trade stuff was just a guess, but Bradley is headed to Detroit and Crowder is very likely going to be gone soon too.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Maybe, maybe not. I'll give you that the Gasol trade stuff was just a guess, but Bradley is headed to Detroit and Crowder is very likely going to be gone soon too.

Crowder has the best contract:production ratio in the league and he's locked in for 3 more years. They'd be colossally stupid to let him go, other ways to make room now that Bradley is gone.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Looks like Crowder stays now that Bradley is dealt.  Hayward will likely be the 2 with Crowder the 3.

[DegenerateDish]

That was not a great trade by the Celtics, understand the salary dump, but Bradley is one tough defender. Morris + 2nd rounder...meh.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Really hope Rose signs with the Bucks just for Wades.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20014101/derrick-rose-milwaukee-bucks-discussing-date-second-free-agency-meeting

[wadesworld]

Really hope Rose signs with the Bucks just for Wades.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20014101/derrick-rose-milwaukee-bucks-discussing-date-second-free-agency-meeting

Only difference will be whether he has a head cold, can't figure out his muscle memory, or just wants to skip out on a game he'd be watching a 2nd year player play over him anyways.  So sure, would be awesome if he won a title with the Bucks in a few years.

Heck, bring Cutler along for a ring watching Rodgers do his magic.  Maybe Arietta wants to get back on some roids and win another World Series with the Brewers in 3 years.

Just more proof that, hey, maybe it's not just blind Chicago hate and maybe someone just understands a bad athlete when he watches one.

[GGGG]

Only difference will be whether he has a head cold, can't figure out his muscle memory, or just wants to skip out on a game he'd be watching a 2nd year player play over him anyways.  So sure, would be awesome if he won a title with the Bucks in a few years.

Heck, bring Cutler along for a ring watching Rodgers do his magic.  Maybe Arietta wants to get back on some roids and win another World Series with the Brewers in 3 years.

Just more proof that, hey, maybe it's not just blind Chicago hate and maybe someone just understands a bad athlete when he watches one.

5 minutes and 3 seconds to respond.

Incredible.

[wadesworld]

5 minutes and 3 seconds to respond.

Incredible.

9 minutes and 49 seconds to respond. Oddly creepy that you're into keeping track of my response times.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Only difference will be whether he has a head cold, can't figure out his muscle memory, or just wants to skip out on a game he'd be watching a 2nd year player play over him anyways.  So sure, would be awesome if he won a title with the Bucks in a few years.

Heck, bring Cutler along for a ring watching Rodgers do his magic.  Maybe Arietta wants to get back on some roids and win another World Series with the Brewers in 3 years.

Just more proof that, hey, maybe it's not just blind Chicago hate and maybe someone just understands a bad athlete when he watches one.

It's mostly Chicago hate.

[wadesworld]

It's mostly Chicago hate.

Yeah. My guess is this is the year Cutler finally reaches his potential and gets those Bears over the hump. Oh wait... Well then surely it's the year DRose finally leads the Bulls back to another title. Err...

But hey, with the All Star Break being in Miami I'm sure Jesu...I mean, Bosio invited Arietta and his new teammate Quintana to join him on a nice, relaxing vacation to watch their teammate lose the All Star Game while working out some kinks in their deliveries and we'll see the Cubs staff go from awful to the best in baseball in a solid 4 days to work those things out.

[cheebs09]

I'm nervous to see the money he will get plus what we have to give up to clear salary. If we trade Henson and sign Rose to a short term deal less than 10 million a year, I think it's a decent signing. If we have to attach a first round pick or something to a player we are trading out, and it's a 3 year deal >10 million, it will be pretty bad.

[wadesworld]

I'm nervous to see the money he will get plus what we have to give up to clear salary. If we trade Henson and sign Rose to a short term deal less than 10 million a year, I think it's a decent signing. If we have to attach a first round pick or something to a player we are trading out, and it's a 3 year deal >10 million, it will be pretty bad.

Yup.  Next year the best case for the Bucks would be Jabari comes back in the 2nd half and shows he will be able to be at least close to what he was pre-second ACL injury and the Bucks get a 3-5 seed before losing in the second round.  What is really important is unloading some of the awful contracts the Bucks have given out.  If you can rid yourself of a couple of Delly, Telly, and Henson you also have Hawes and Moose coming off the books next year.  Then hopefully they can get smart about the FA signings and not throw some money at JKidd's boys, and hopefully LBJ moves to LA and/or declines.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Yeah. My guess is this is the year Cutler finally reaches his potential and gets those Bears over the hump. Oh wait... Well then surely it's the year DRose finally leads the Bulls back to another title. Err...

But hey, with the All Star Break being in Miami I'm sure Jesu...I mean, Bosio invited Arietta and his new teammate Quintana to join him on a nice, relaxing vacation to watch their teammate lose the All Star Game while working out some kinks in their deliveries and we'll see the Cubs staff go from awful to the best in baseball in a solid 4 days to work those things out.

Rose was an excellent player until the injuries but obviously has not been remotely the same player since and will never return to that level.  If you don't think he was a really good player pre-injury, well, you're just wrong. 

Cutler was a guy you were not going to win because of but that you could win with.  He was probably in the 15-20 range of starters in the years he was playing.  I would expect any Packer fan to hate Cutler.

The Arrieta stuff continues to crack me up.  The dude didn't use PEDs.  And if he had successfully used them for so many years without getting caught, why would he stop in the year prior to his free agency?   And now you have some thing for Bosio, which is equally as amusing. 

[MerrittsMustache]

The Arrieta stuff continues to crack me up.  The dude didn't use PEDs.  And if he had successfully used them for so many years without getting caught, why would he stop in the year prior to his free agency?   And now you have some thing for Bosio, which is equally as amusing.

Arrieta was a talented Top 100 prospect who was in an organization that was notoriously bad at developing pitchers. Bosio helped straighten him out but apparently giving a pitching coach credit for being good at his job is just too much for wades to handle.

Rose's problem is that he still hasn't accepted the fact that he's no longer pre-injury Derrick Rose. He still tries to play the same style, relying on quickness and athleticism but it's just not there anymore. He had a solid season with NY last year but he's not nearly the playmaker that he used to be.

[wadesworld]

Rose was an excellent player until the injuries but obviously has not been remotely the same player since and will never return to that level.  If you don't think he was a really good player pre-injury, well, you're just wrong. 

Cutler was a guy you were not going to win because of but that you could win with.  He was probably in the 15-20 range of starters in the years he was playing.  I would expect any Packer fan to hate Cutler.

The Arrieta stuff continues to crack me up.  The dude didn't use PEDs.  And if he had successfully used them for so many years without getting caught, why would he stop in the year prior to his free agency?   And now you have some thing for Bosio, which is equally as amusing.

In other words what you're saying is, "you were right about Cutler and Rose and I just refuse to believe that any Cub player would ever use PEDs because guys like Sammy Sosa were totally clean, the Cubs would never do that but that Eric Thames guy..."

Please explain why Arrieta's average fastball change from last year to this year were (as of earlier this season, not sure where to find the most recent number so maybe it changed) the worst in the MLB for any starter by almost a full 1 MPH?  Down 2.6 MPH on your fastball in one offseason?  Hmm...

[MerrittsMustache]

In other words what you're saying is, "you were right about Cutler and Rose and I just refuse to believe that any Cub player would ever use PEDs because guys like Sammy Sosa were totally clean, the Cubs would never do that but that Eric Thames guy..."

Please explain why Arrieta's average fastball change from last year to this year were (as of earlier this season, not sure where to find the most recent number so maybe it changed) the worst in the MLB for any starter by almost a full 1 MPH?  Down 2.6 MPH on your fastball in one offseason?  Hmm...

First of all, source?

Second, Arrieta pitched a then-career high 156.2 innings in 2014. He followed that up by pitching 468.3 innings over a 17-month span (throwing nearly 7,300 pitches). Also, his strikeout rate is higher than last season so it's not all about velocity for him.

Third, isn't this the NBA thread?

[wadesworld]

First of all, source?

Second, Arrieta pitched a then-career high 156.2 innings in 2014. He followed that up by pitching 468.3 innings over a 17-month span (throwing nearly 7,300 pitches). Also, his strikeout rate is higher than last season so it's not all about velocity for him.

Third, isn't this the NBA thread?

An old FanGraphs article.  Maybe I'll take a look later but I do have off this afternoon so less time twiddling my thumbs at the office to find it.

Outstanding.  So an MLB starting pitcher threw innings as if he was an MLB starting pitcher and it evidently tired him out to the point his velocity dropped 75% more than the 2nd biggest velocity drop in the MLB.  Again, hmm...

Says the guy who has contributed to the discussion...

[Vander Blue Man Group]

In other words what you're saying is, "you were right about Cutler and Rose and I just refuse to believe that any Cub player would ever use PEDs because guys like Sammy Sosa were totally clean, the Cubs would never do that but that Eric Thames guy..."

Please explain why Arrieta's average fastball change from last year to this year were (as of earlier this season, not sure where to find the most recent number so maybe it changed) the worst in the MLB for any starter by almost a full 1 MPH?  Hmm...

I don't recall when your berating of Rose began.  I don't think anything I said about him or Cutler was incorrect or unrealistic.  Rose was a stud and multiple injuries derailed what was looking like a great career. 

You realize sometimes a pitcher's velocity declines as he ages, correct?  And you ignored the question.....if he had used PEDs for multiple years without getting caught why would he just stop with the potential of a huge contract on the horizon? 

FYI - You can't stop using PEDs when you didn't use them to begin with. 

BTW, you adding Thames and Sosa into the conversation is idiotic.  Way to project. 

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

  I would expect any Packer fan to hate Cutler.

For the record, I and many other Packers fans love Cutler. 

[MUBurrow]

Jay Cutler looks all the time like I look during conversations about Jay Cutler