NBA '17

[wadesworld]

To be fair, I don't think either team gets a great deal out of this long-term.  I just think it is worth the shot from OKC's point of view.

I don't think so either.  BUT I do think the Pacers are doing a pretty good job of putting together a team that should work well together.  You have a 25 year old slashing, athletic wing who isn't as efficient as you need him to be but hopefully with the added shooting around him and some development he becomes more efficient.  Then you have 2 bigs who can step out and spread the defense in the complete stud that is Myles Turner and what you hope Sabonas can bring.  Now they add Collison who, while he doesn't shoot a ton of 3s, makes a lot of the 3s he does shoot.

The way I see it, Turner is going to be an All Star player for a long time.  Between Oladipo, Sabonas, and Robinson you have 3 young guys who at the very least should be solid role players and at best solid starters.  Now if you draft well and/or can add one big splash free agent you can compete in the East in the next 3-5 years.

Meanwhile I just don't see the Thunder truly competing to make a run at a title in the foreseeable future.  They were the worst 3 point shooting team in the league and while George doesn't hurt, he's not an outstanding shooter either.  You need to be able to shoot the ball in today's NBA.  They don't have anybody to do that.  And then George is most likely gone, Russell quite possibly leaves the year after, and sure you have a TON of money to go out and spend, but who's going to Oklahoma City?  Players now are either going to big markets or to places they can win a title.  OKC is neither, at least not now.

KD's 2-year, $53 million contract with the Warriors is the best deal any NBA team has gotten from an established free-agent superstar in a long effen time. Maybe since Michael got "only" $30M from the Jerrys in 1997.

I mean, some might rather have Oladipo at $21M than KD at $26.5M, but I'm gonna go crazy and say I'll take KD!

Not sure who in their right mind would want Oladipo at $21M over KD at $26.5M, but maybe KD went to the Pacers and said, "Hey, I'd be interested in joining your squad if you want to dump Oladipo," and they just passed it up?  Doubtful, but, as KG once said about a roster of 4 Hall of Famers and another All Star point guard in his prime winning a title, "ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!"

[MU82]

Not sure who in their right mind would want Oladipo at $21M over KD at $26.5M

I wasn't suggesting that there was any such choice, as you know. I just thought it interesting.

KD did what more superstars should. Here he is gonna get paid $26M for one season doing the thing he loves, and yet he is being viewed as a hero because he took less than he would have received from other teams to keep a championship squad together.

So he has the best of both worlds - he has gotten much, much richer as he builds wealth he couldn't spend in multiple lifetimes even as he is being celebrated as the ultimate unselfish, team-first athlete.

Should things go south in GS for some reason, he can opt out of year 2 and get his $40M per year then. Or he can get it 2 years from now. If that's even what he wants.

Smart PR move, and the rare occasion where it really "is about more than money." And yet he is guaranteed $53 million for his sacrifice!

Carmelo could have done the same thing (not to pick on him - many others could have too) but he went for the biggest payday possible rather than the chance to win.

[wadesworld]

I wasn't suggesting that there was any such choice, as you know. I just thought it interesting.

Your last sentence said exactly that. "I mean, some might rather have Oladipo at $21M than KD at $26.5M, but I'm gonna go crazy and say I'll take KD!"

I think you'd struggle to find anyone who would take Oladipo over KD to save $5.5M, but maybe.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Boston just got #DoneDeal'd

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Hayward to Warriors for mini mid level exception, $5 million for one year.

July 4th Fools

[MU82]

Your last sentence said exactly that. "I mean, some might rather have Oladipo at $21M than KD at $26.5M, but I'm gonna go crazy and say I'll take KD!"

I think you'd struggle to find anyone who would take Oladipo over KD to save $5.5M, but maybe.

I was being sarcastic in that sentence.

[GB Warrior]

Boston just got #DoneDeal'd

Happened to them twice this offseason. Makes one wonder who the #source is

[MU82]

Boston just got #DoneDeal'd

Only kinda.

Unlike our donedeal, this one looks like it's still gonna happen.

Meanwhile, our donedeal is down in Austin, lickin' his wounds from 11-22 and trying to keep his recruits eligible.

[GGGG]

Only kinda.

Unlike our donedeal, this one looks like it's still gonna happen.

Meanwhile, our donedeal is down in Austin, lickin' his wounds from 11-22 and trying to keep his recruits eligible.

And apparently didn't happen because Hayward was writing a "Players Tribune" article. 

[MerrittsMustache]

With Hayward, the Celtics may lose to Cleveland in 6 games instead of 5!

It sounds nice to pair Hayward with Thomas, but Thomas is an UFA after the season. This team is going to build around Hayward, Tatum and Brown. Along with Hayward's ~$32M, they owe Horford almost $30M for the next 3 seasons, plus Crowder and Tatum about $7M each. They also have decisions to make on Bradley and Smart. IT's gone in 2018-19.

Maybe Tatum or Brown end up being the real deal, but Hayward is, at best, on the Jimmy Butler level of star players who'd be a great #2 to a superstar player. You don't build a champion around Gordon Hayward.

[cheebs09]

With Hayward, the Celtics may lose to Cleveland in 6 games instead of 5!

It sounds nice to pair Hayward with Thomas, but Thomas is an UFA after the season. This team is going to build around Hayward, Tatum and Brown. Along with Hayward's ~$32M, they owe Horford almost $30M for the next 3 seasons, plus Crowder and Tatum about $7M each. They also have decisions to make on Bradley and Smart. IT's gone in 2018-19.

Maybe Tatum or Brown end up being the real deal, but Hayward is, at best, on the Jimmy Butler level of star players who'd be a great #2 to a superstar player. You don't build a champion around Gordon Hayward.

I think some of those decisions have to happen before Hayward puts a pen to paper. They got rid of Olynk, but I think they will still have to move Smart or Crowder for financial purposes.

[GGGG]

With Hayward, the Celtics may lose to Cleveland in 6 games instead of 5!

It sounds nice to pair Hayward with Thomas, but Thomas is an UFA after the season. This team is going to build around Hayward, Tatum and Brown. Along with Hayward's ~$32M, they owe Horford almost $30M for the next 3 seasons, plus Crowder and Tatum about $7M each. They also have decisions to make on Bradley and Smart. IT's gone in 2018-19.

Maybe Tatum or Brown end up being the real deal, but Hayward is, at best, on the Jimmy Butler level of star players who'd be a great #2 to a superstar player. You don't build a champion around Gordon Hayward.

I do think they could have traded some of those future assets for Butler though.  I mean, if you are going to go after Cleveland, then go after them. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

With Hayward, the Celtics may lose to Cleveland in 6 games instead of 5!

It sounds nice to pair Hayward with Thomas, but Thomas is an UFA after the season. This team is going to build around Hayward, Tatum and Brown. Along with Hayward's ~$32M, they owe Horford almost $30M for the next 3 seasons, plus Crowder and Tatum about $7M each. They also have decisions to make on Bradley and Smart. IT's gone in 2018-19.

Maybe Tatum or Brown end up being the real deal, but Hayward is, at best, on the Jimmy Butler level of star players who'd be a great #2 to a superstar player. You don't build a champion around Gordon Hayward.

Butler > Hayward

Both in terms of ability and contract

Celtics should have done much more to get Butler

[Pakuni]

Butler > Hayward

Both in terms of ability and contract

Celtics should have done much more to get Butler

Yes, but Butler would have cost them a pick or two and a player. And he's a UFA in two years. That's not insigificnat, especially to Danny Ainge who loves having draft picks.

Hayward cost them nothing but cap space.

[MerrittsMustache]

I think some of those decisions have to happen before Hayward puts a pen to paper. They got rid of Olynk, but I think they will still have to move Smart or Crowder for financial purposes.

Word is out there that they're already trying to move Marcus Smart. Maybe Ainge can collect more picks that he'll be unwilling to trade without major protection 

[BM1090]

Butler > Hayward

Both in terms of ability and contract

Celtics should have done much more to get Butler

Agree. But they were able to get Hayward for no assets and Butler would have cost them some.

Also, Hayward might be a better fit in Boston's motion offense. Efficient, doesn't demand the ball like JB does. JB is a superior defender, although not by as much as you'd think.

[GGGG]

Yes, but Butler would have cost them a pick or two and a player. And he's a UFA in two years. That's not insigificnat, especially to Danny Ainge who loves having draft picks.

Hayward cost them nothing but cap space.

How many first round draft picks does a contending team need to have?  I think they have at least two next year and three in 2019.  You had the best record in the East last year, with a monster team in the way, and can't sacrifice a couple of those for a current All Star?  If you're going to go for it, then you go for it. 

The San Antonio Spurs have had only one top 20 pick (#20 in 2010) since they drafted Tim Duncan in 1999, and they have never had more than one first-round pick during that timeframe. 

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Packages being discussed right now, don't know all the specifics but know Nader is talked about as one of the throw in pieces that some teams like. Jae was asked about by a few teams, don't know anything about Smart or Bradley.

I've also heard to not be shocked if Brown was a part of a deal. Still on a rookie contract obviously but Tatum and Heyward play that exact same position.

[DegenerateDish]

Yes, but Butler would have cost them a pick or two and a player. And he's a UFA in two years. That's not insigificnat, especially to Danny Ainge who loves having draft picks.

Hayward cost them nothing but cap space.

Problem with this is that Hayward has a player option after year 3, so if you trade for Butler, you at least have them together for two years with Horford.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but Boston has a really odd window now. I like Tatum a lot, but Hayward is going to cut into his minutes. They have zero cap space next summer, but potentially two top 5 picks. Three of their top four guys from last year could be gone in 2018. Horford and Hayward are really good NBA players, but not superstars. Thomas is still 5'6'' and a great scorer, but he's not getting taller and is still awful on defense.

Boston is going to be really good, especially feasting on the East, I just think they have a weird mix of young guys, future assets, two FA signings that are good players over the last two summers, and their previous core group (Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Crowder) is going to have to get broken up next year.

[MerrittsMustache]

Yes, but Butler would have cost them a pick or two and a player. And he's a UFA in two years. That's not insigificnat, especially to Danny Ainge who loves having draft picks.

Hayward cost them nothing but cap space.

They're likely going to end up moving a pick or two and a player anyway but they're definitely not going to get back anything close to Jimmy Butler.

[Silkk the Shaka]

They're likely going to end up moving a pick or two and a player anyway but they're definitely not going to get back anything close to Jimmy Butler.

Yep

Butler was acquired by Minnesota for less than what Boston will have to give up to make the Hayward signing work

[Pakuni]

They're likely going to end up moving a pick or two and a player anyway but they're definitely not going to get back anything close to Jimmy Butler.

Let's not get carried away.
I agree Jimmy is the better player, but Hayward is a legit all star (in the better conference, no less).

Why would they have to move a pick? How does trading draft picks solve their cap issue? to the contrary, they're going to keep those draft picks to add young players on cap-friendly deals so they won't have to spend big to retain a guy like Marcus Smart of Avery Bradley next year.
A player, yes, but they'll get something in return for that player. And it'll likely be a player who they now view as expendable (looking at you, Jae).

[Pakuni]

Butler was acquired by Minnesota for less than what Boston will have to give up to make the Hayward signing work

???
What do you think Boston is giving up?

[Silkk the Shaka]

???
What do you think Boston is giving up?

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19834944/nba-forsberg-celtics-acquiring-gordon-hayward-analysis

Hayward's arrival will force the Celtics to tweak their roster in order to fund the four-year, $128 million contract he'll ink. Boston started that process Tuesday night by rescinding its qualifying offer to center Kelly Olynyk, which made the floor-stretching big an unrestricted free agent.

Boston will likely renounce its rights to a series of veteran free agents such as Jonas Jerebko and Gerald Green (players who could always come back on low-cost deals), waive the non-guaranteed salary of Jordan Mickey and waive or trade the partially guaranteed contract of Demetrius Jackson.

The harder decision looms with moving at least one key rotation player in order to fully create max cap space. The Celtics will consider the trade market for Avery Bradley (a free agent after this coming season), Marcus Smart (restricted next summer) and Jae Crowder (still on a sweetheart deal, but that could increase his trade value).

4 of the guys in bold are players I'd rather have - just one of them mind you - than both LaVine & Dunn

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I'd much rather have Lavine than Crowder or Smart. Just so we can finally end this ridiculous conversation, the Celtics we're not offering the Bulls any draft picks for Butler, a Boston/Chicago trade was never going to happen.