NBA '17

[jsglow]

Per Woj: Derrick Rose meeting with Bucks officials today.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not a guy who had 'muscle memory' issues and couldn't bother to dress during the playoffs when JFB was logging 48 every night AND while active players were flu stricken, upchucking into buckets on the bench, then returning to the floor. Not that guy.  Ever.

[Pakuni]

If George stays after this season, it's a win for OKC. Even though it wouldn't make them a legit contender, it shows Westbrook that they're trying to build around him and he's more likely to stay long-term. Keep Westbrook and you keep an exciting player in OKC and keep fans in the seats. If PG wants to go to LA, you can try to work a sign-and-trade and potentially end up with a couple decent players from LA (Randle, Clarkson, etc). Sam Presti knows that George still doesn't put OKC all that close to being on GS's level.

There's this notion that NBA team are either true contenders or they should be tanking. However, there are a lot of teams out there who's front offices (and fans) would be more than happy perennially landing in that 2 to 5 seed range and hoping to make a run to the conference finals. Teams make money, fans get to experience more playoff basketball and everybody wins on some level. When the Bulls were good in the early 2010s, they were a fun team to watch and root for even though, deep down, Bulls fans knew they weren't getting past LeBron.

Sidenote: The Celtics do offer packages of picks but they want the picks so protected that it's not worth it for the potential trade partner (i.e. they were willing to include the Nets' 2017 pick for Butler in-season, but wanted the pick to be top 3 protected). After the fact, they then let it leak that Team A turned down a seemingly great deal with a bunch of 1st Rounders. The intent is to make Ainge look like he's going for it even though the deal isn't necessarily what it seems.

Also, despite some posters' apparent belief in Oladipo's future as an NBA star, OKC is very happy to have his $21 million a year for the next four years off their books. That alone makes this trade worthwhile for them.

[wadesworld]

Also, despite some posters' apparent belief in Oladipo's future as an NBA star, OKC is very happy to have his $21 million a year for the next four years off their books. That alone makes this trade worthwhile for them.

Not a belief in Oladipo's future as an NBA star, just an understanding of the type of money that is being thrown around in the NBA in the past 2 offseasons.  Let's take a look at players who are making roughly the same, or more, money as Victor Oladipo next year.

Carmelo
McCollum
Wade
Beal
Dwight Howard
Parsons
Barnes
Brook Lopez
Steven Adams
Batum
Ryan Anderson
Allen Crabbe
Kanter
Wes Matthews
Joakim Noah
Luol Deng
Evan Turner

Some of these guys are better players, but not so much so that Oladipo for $21M is absurd compared to, say, Chandler Parson's $23M.  And with the Pacers Oladipo is going to be the man and will probably be more productive than most of these players.

[MerrittsMustache]

Not a belief in Oladipo's future as an NBA star, just an understanding of the type of money that is being thrown around in the NBA in the past 2 offseasons.  Let's take a look at players who are making roughly the same, or more, money as Victor Oladipo next year.

Carmelo
McCollum
Wade
Beal
Dwight Howard
Parsons
Barnes
Brook Lopez
Steven Adams
Batum
Ryan Anderson
Allen Crabbe
Kanter
Wes Matthews
Joakim Noah
Luol Deng
Evan Turner

Some of these guys are better players, but not so much so that Oladipo for $21M is absurd compared to, say, Chandler Parson's $23M.  And with the Pacers Oladipo is going to be the man and will probably be more productive than most of these players.

Not all NBA production is created equal. Putting up big numbers as "the man" on a bad team doesn't necessarily mean that a player is better than the #3 option on a contender.

[wadesworld]

Not all NBA production is created equal. Putting up big numbers as "the man" on a bad team doesn't necessarily mean that a player is better than the #3 option on a contender.

So then that begs the question, what's the difference between Paul George putting up big numbers as "the man" on the exact same team Victor Oladipo might be doing it for next year vs. Victor Aladipo putting up those big numbers?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

So then that begs the question, what's the difference between Paul George putting up big numbers as "the man" on the exact same team Victor Oladipo might be doing it for next year vs. Victor Aladipo putting up those big numbers?

Because Paul George has proven to be the man on a team that made it to the Eastern Conference Finals.  Oladipo has yet to be the man, even on terrible Orlando teams.

[Pakuni]

Not a belief in Oladipo's future as an NBA star, just an understanding of the type of money that is being thrown around in the NBA in the past 2 offseasons.  Let's take a look at players who are making roughly the same, or more, money as Victor Oladipo next year.

Some of these guys are better players, but not so much so that Oladipo for $21M is absurd compared to, say, Chandler Parson's $23M.  And with the Pacers Oladipo is going to be the man and will probably be more productive than most of these players.

Defending Oladipo's bad contract by pointing out other bad contracts doesn't make his contract any better.
I suppose I could just as easily point out all the players he's earning more than, in some cases significantly more, including:
Jimmy Butler
Draymond Green
Klay Thompson
Eric Bledsoe
John Wall
DeMarcus Cousins
Kemba Walker

As for his production, it's true that on a team with few other options, Oladipo likely will get a lot of shots and therefore score a lot of points. That's not necessarily a great measure of production though.

[cheebs09]

If the Bucks are looking to clear space, they should go after George Hill if he's only looking for a one year deal. Granted, there may not be mutual interest as LA and Milwaukee are vastly different. Just seems like a much better fit than Rose would be.

[wadesworld]

Defending Oladipo's bad contract by pointing out other bad contracts doesn't make his contract any better.
I suppose I could just as easily point out all the players he's earning more than, in some cases significantly more, including:
Jimmy Butler
Draymond Green
Klay Thompson
Eric Bledsoe
John Wall
DeMarcus Cousins
Kemba Walker

As for his production, it's true that on a team with few other options, Oladipo likely will get a lot of shots and therefore score a lot of points. That's not necessarily a great measure of production though.

AKA guys that were under contract prior to the giant salary cap jump last offseason.

Again, if you've been paying attention to what's gone on the last 2 offseasons you'd realize $21M/year for a 25 year old who averages 16/4/4 for his career is pretty much right where it should be for today's NBA money.

[MerrittsMustache]

So then that begs the question, what's the difference between Paul George putting up big numbers as "the man" on the exact same team Victor Oladipo might be doing it for next year vs. Victor Aladipo putting up those big numbers?

Paul George was "the man" on a team that twice went to the Conf Finals, once as the #1 seed in the East, and was within a game of going to the Finals. He has put up numbers that matter on very good teams. His team has been to the playoffs every year he's been healthy. When he was hurt, the Pacers dropped from 56 wins to 38 wins. On top of that, he's a bigger, better, more efficient basketball player than Victor Oladipo.

Oladipo is not going to put up 23-7-4 on .461/.393/.898.

[GGGG]

AKA guys that were under contract prior to the giant salary cap jump last offseason.

Again, if you've been paying attention to what's gone on the last 2 offseasons you'd realize $21M/year for a 25 year old who averages 16/4/4 for his career is pretty much right where it should be for today's NBA money.

You can find an Oladipo like player really whenever. Not a player you build around. Trading him to take a shot at George is well worth it.

[MUBurrow]

If the Bucks are looking to clear space, they should go after George Hill if he's only looking for a one year deal. Granted, there may not be mutual interest as LA and Milwaukee are vastly different. Just seems like a much better fit than Rose would be.

That'd be great. No such thing as a bad one year contract.

[Pakuni]

AKA guys that were under contract prior to the giant salary cap jump last offseason.

Ummm ... so was Oladipo.

Again, if you've been paying attention to what's gone on the last 2 offseasons you'd realize $21M/year for a 25 year old who averages 16/4/4 for his career is pretty much right where it should be for today's NBA money.

Huh.
Some comparables, with last year's stats. I'd welcome any others you might suggest. FWIW, Schroder, Fournier and Clarkson all signed extensions last year, just like Oladipo.

Tobias Harris, 24, 16/2/5 = $16 million
Dennis Schroder, 23, 18/6/3 = $15.5 million
Evan Fournier, 24, 17/3/3 = $17 million
Jordan Clarkson, 25, 15/3/3 = $11.5 million

[wadesworld]

Ummm ... so was Oladipo.


Huh.
Some comparables, with last year's stats. I'd welcome any others you might suggest. FWIW, Schroder, Fournier and Clarkson all signed extensions last year, just like Oladipo.

Tobias Harris, 24, 16/2/5 = $16 million
Dennis Schroder, 23, 18/6/3 = $15.5 million
Evan Fournier, 24, 17/3/3 = $17 million
Jordan Clarkson, 25, 15/3/3 = $11.5 million

What are you even talking about?  Oladipo signed an extension in October of 2016.  You can go all "Umm...huh..." if you'd like, but as much as you'd like it to, it doesn't change the fact that Oladipo signed his contract extension after the giant salary cap jump.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Wades man, you're a bigger Oladipo fan than Tanned Tommy.

[Pakuni]

What are you even talking about?  Oladipo signed an extension in October of 2016.  You can go all "Umm...huh..." if you'd like, but as much as you'd like it to, it doesn't change the fact that Oladipo signed his contract extension after the giant salary cap jump.

You said: "guys that were under contract prior to the giant salary cap jump last offseason."
Oladipo also was under contract prior to the giant salary cap last offseason. He was under contract when he signed his extension in October. That's why it's called an extension.

But hey, why not talk about the comparables? You said $21 million is standard for a player of Oladipo's age and production. I found four players of similar age and production who get paid much less. Three of those four signed extensions last year, like Oladipo, so they were re-upped in the same environment.
I found no similar players who are paid the same or more.
Who would you say is comparable?

[wadesworld]

Wades man, you're a bigger Oladipo fan than Tanned Tommy.

I don't like Oladipo at all. I just have a basic understanding of what kind of money is out there in the NBA.

You said: "guys that were under contract prior to the giant salary cap jump last offseason."
Oladipo also was under contract prior to the giant salary cap last offseason. He was under contract when he signed his extension in October. That's why it's called an extension.

But hey, why not talk about the comparables? You said $21 million is standard for a player of Oladipo's age and production. I found four players of similar age and production who get paid much less. Three of those four signed extensions last year, like Oladipo, so they were re-upped in the same environment.
I found no similar players who are paid the same or more.
Who would you say is comparable?

We have been talking about Victor Oladipo's 21M/year price tag this entire time. He was under a rookie contract prior to the historic salary cap jump last offseason. He will start making that $21M/year this upcoming season. So no, his $21M/year contract was not signed prior to the cap jump. It's really not that difficult.

You don't have to like it. But players like Oladipo get the type of money he's getting with the salary cap the way it is.

[Pakuni]

We have been talking about Victor Oladipo's 21M/year price tag this entire time. He was under a rookie contract prior to the historic salary cap jump last offseason. He will start making that $21M/year this upcoming season. So no, his $21M/year contract was not signed prior to the cap jump. It's really not that difficult.

You're very confused. Go back and re-read the thread and you might see where you went wrong.

You don't have to like it. But players like Oladipo get the type of money he's getting with the salary cap the way it is.

Name one.
I've named three who signed under the exact same circumstances and didn't get the type of money he's getting. Surely you can come up with one.

[GGGG]

I don't like Oladipo at all. I just have a basic understanding of what kind of money is out there in the NBA.

We have been talking about Victor Oladipo's 21M/year price tag this entire time. He was under a rookie contract prior to the historic salary cap jump last offseason. He will start making that $21M/year this upcoming season. So no, his $21M/year contract was not signed prior to the cap jump. It's really not that difficult.

You don't have to like it. But players like Oladipo get the type of money he's getting with the salary cap the way it is.

If you're not an Oladipo fan, then how could you not like this trade from OKC's point?

[wadesworld]

You're very confused. Go back and re-read the thread and you might see where you went wrong.

Name one.
I've named three who signed under the exact same circumstances and didn't get the type of money he's getting. Surely you can come up with one.

Yeah. I'm the one that is confused. Says the guy claiming Oladipo was under his $21M/year contract during the previous cap.  Of course he was under contract prior to the cap jump. But not the contract paying him the $21M/Year the Thunder are getting out of, you know, the reason people are giving for making this trade worth it.

If you're not an Oladipo fan, then how could you not like this trade from OKC's point?

Because I don't think any team should be trading anything for a guy who has already publicly stated numerous times where he intends to sign as a free agent one year from the time they trade for him unless it's going to help them win a title. Which obviously it isn't going to do that for the Thunder. It doesn't help the Thunder achieve anything beyond maybe 4 extra Playoff losses.

I don't like Oladipo. I don't think $21M/year for a 25 year old who averages 16/4/4 on his career is an absurd contract in today's NBA. 4 years ago? Yup. Today? Pretty much what you'd expect. So why give up a 25 year old and a promising rookie to maybe make it to the 2nd round and then lose the piece you got? No reason to trade anything for Paul George for the Thunder.

[GGGG]

Yeah. I'm the one that is confused. Says the guy claiming Oladipo was under his $21M/year contract during the previous cap.  Of course he was under contract prior to the cap jump. But not the contract paying him the $21M/Year the Thunder are getting out of, you know, the reason people are giving for making this trade worth it.

Because I don't think any team should be trading anything for a guy who has already publicly stated numerous times where he intends to sign as a free agent one year from the time they trade for him unless it's going to help them win a title. Which obviously it isn't going to do that for the Thunder. It doesn't help the Thunder achieve anything beyond maybe 4 extra Playoff losses.

I don't like Oladipo. I don't think $21M/year for a 25 year old who averages 16/4/4 on his career is an absurd contract in today's NBA. 4 years ago? Yup. Today? Pretty much what you'd expect. So why give up a 25 year old and a promising rookie to maybe make it to the 2nd round and then lose the piece you got? No reason to trade anything for Paul George for the Thunder.

Because the upside is big.

And the downside isn't all that down.  Basically they are in a better place without the Oladipo contract if both Westbrook and George leave.

[DegenerateDish]

With almost half the league expected over the luxury tax threshold next year, teams like OKC dumping bad contracts like Oladipo looks shrewd right now. The rental of George and the price next summer to take on horrendous contracts will be a great return for a team like OKC.

[wadesworld]

Because the upside is big.

And the downside isn't all that down.  Basically they are in a better place without the Oladipo contract if both Westbrook and George leave.

I just don't see the big upside. If they are any better than 4th in the West and a 2nd round exit with George gone in a year and Oladipo isn't worth his contract and Sabonas is never more than a role guy I'll admit I was totally wrong. I just don't see anything other than that happening.

[GGGG]

I just don't see the big upside. If they are any better than 4th in the West and a 2nd round exit with George gone in a year and Oladipo isn't worth his contract and Sabonas is never more than a role guy I'll admit I was totally wrong. I just don't see anything other than that happening.

To be fair, I don't think either team gets a great deal out of this long-term.  I just think it is worth the shot from OKC's point of view.

[MU82]

KD's 2-year, $53 million contract with the Warriors is the best deal any NBA team has gotten from an established free-agent superstar in a long effen time. Maybe since Michael got "only" $30M from the Jerrys in 1997.

I mean, some might rather have Oladipo at $21M than KD at $26.5M, but I'm gonna go crazy and say I'll take KD!