NBA '17

[Celtic Truth]

KD was willing and able to make the big shots down the stretch, Lebron was not. That was the game and the difference from last year. Steph and klay don't compare to KD in terms of being a "closer". He can score in almost every way imaginable. Great game to watch from start to finish

[wadesworld]

KD was willing and able to make the big shots down the stretch, Lebron was not. That was the game and the difference from last year. Steph and klay don't compare to KD in terms of being a "closer". He can score in almost every way imaginable. Great game to watch from start to finish

I play basketball with a guy from Cleveland who loves his Cleveland sports. When LBJ was in Miami he wouldn't refer to him as anything besides "six." Now of course there's no more amazing human being on Earth than LBJ. And he now only refers to KD as "the b!tch." It's pretty funny.

People wonder how KD could leave a team when they were so close to the Finals. Any questions now? Not sure how there ever were. Do I want a PG who's going to shoot 18-43 or do I want to play with a bunch of guys who move the rock and out it in my hand when the game is on the line? Oh yeah, and do I want to play in Oklahoma friggin City or the SF Bay? Tough choice, tough choice...

[MU82]

I play basketball with a guy from Cleveland who loves his Cleveland sports. When LBJ was in Miami he wouldn't refer to him as anything besides "six." Now of course there's no more amazing human being on Earth than LBJ. And he now only refers to KD as "the b!tch." It's pretty funny.

People wonder how KD could leave a team when they were so close to the Finals. Any questions now? Not sure how there ever were. Do I want a PG who's going to shoot 18-43 or do I want to play with a bunch of guys who move the rock and out it in my hand when the game is on the line? Oh yeah, and do I want to play in Oklahoma friggin City or the SF Bay? Tough choice, tough choice...

I don't blame LeBron for going to Miami. I don't blame LeBron for going back to Cleveland. And I don't blame KD for going to Golden State. Others don't like it? Tough.

Cavs choked quite badly in Game 3, but the Warriors had to be willing to accept the generosity and they were. If GS still had Harrison Barnes instead of KD, I probably would have picked Cleveland in a close series. Put KD with that other talent, and it's a no-go. I picked Warriors in 5, but if given a mulligan I'd obviously pick a sweep.

[GGGG]

@MichaelVPina
LeBron James was +7 in 46 minutes and his team lost by five. In a game of incredible stats, nothing touches that.


IOW, in the two minutes that he wasn't on the floor, the Cavs went -12.

[wadesworld]

@MichaelVPina
LeBron James was +7 in 46 minutes and his team lost by five. In a game of incredible stats, nothing touches that.


IOW, in the two minutes that he wasn't on the floor, the Cavs went -12.

Yet he was a team worst -22 in game one.  And Iggy has been +14, +9, and +10 in the 3 games so far.  And when Iggy is in the game he's guarding LeBron.

[GGGG]

Yet he was a team worst -22 in game one.  And Iggy has been +14, +9, and +10 in the 3 games so far.  And when Iggy is in the game he's guarding LeBron.

Yes.  The guy who was on the floor for most of a blow out loss is usually going to have a large negative number.  Thanks for that brilliant observation.

The point is that where Lebron played 95% of the minutes available, and he was +7, they lost by 5.  The opposite of what you would expect.

[wadesworld]

Yes.  The guy who was on the floor for most of a blow out loss is usually going to have a large negative number.  Thanks for that brilliant observation.

The point is that where Lebron played 95% of the minutes available, and he was +7, they lost by 5.  The opposite of what you would expect.

Well he was 5 points worse than anybody else, and he wasn't the only player on the floor for a bunch of minutes.  The point is +/- is one of the most meaningless stats in basketball.

LeBron was on the court over the last 3:40 of the game when the Cavs were -11.  That's what really matters.

[GGGG]

Well he was 5 points worse than anybody else, and he wasn't the only player on the floor for a bunch of minutes.  The point is +/- is one of the most meaningless stats in basketball.

LeBron was on the court over the last 3:40 of the game when the Cavs were -11.  That's what really matters.

So it's meaningful when it suits your agenda.

[Pakuni]

So it's meaningful when it suits your agenda.

Well, in this case, he's right about the value of +/-.

It's odd that just as hockey people are finally realizing the worthlessness of +/-  in recent years, basketball has embraced it.

[wadesworld]

So it's meaningful when it suits your agenda.

No.  1-0 vs. 0-1 is what's meaningful.  The +6 for Cleveland on the scoreboard that turned into -5 in that time is what's meaningful.

[GGGG]

Well, in this case, he's right about the value of +/-.

And usually I agree.  But outliers like this do mean something.

[Silkk the Shaka]

And usually I agree.  But outliers like this do mean something.

The magnitude in question isn't much of an outlier...

It's hysterical to watch LeBron fans look for and twist every little thing as "unprecedented" or "unbelievable"

[GGGG]

The magnitude in question isn't much of an outlier...

OK.  I might be willing to agree with that if you could show similar examples.

It's hysterical to watch LeBron fans look for and twist every little thing as "unprecedented" or "unbelievable"

Well I never said either of those things.

[wadesworld]

There has never been 4 All NBA players on the same roster that were all under the age of 30 until the 2017 GS Warriors.

[Silkk the Shaka]

OK.  I might be willing to agree with that if you could show similar examples.


Well I never said either of those things.

Wasn't really directed at you, more the original tweet and those of its ilk I see constantly

[GGGG]

Wasn't really directed at you, more the original tweet and those of its ilk I see constantly

Gotcha.

[MU82]

Yet he was a team worst -22 in game one.  And Iggy has been +14, +9, and +10 in the 3 games so far.  And when Iggy is in the game he's guarding LeBron.

Ipso fatso, Iggy > LeBron!

[wadesworld]

Ipso fatso, Iggy > LeBron!

Yeah.  Just goes to show how meaningless +/- is.  Game 2 Livingston is -10 (the only Warriors player worse than -2) in a 20 point win while going 4-7 from the field, 2-2 from the line, and having 1 assist, 1 rebound, and 0 turnovers in 19 minutes.  Obviously Livingston was hurting the Warriors and his minutes should be cut to 0.

[wadesworld]

Yes.  The guy who was on the floor for most of a blow out loss is usually going to have a large negative number.  Thanks for that brilliant observation.

The point is that where Lebron played 95% of the minutes available, and he was +7, they lost by 5.  The opposite of what you would expect.

Also, if there is a "brilliant observation" here I would argue that the Cavs being outscored when the best player on the planet is on the bench (his +/- in game 3) is a lot less surprising than the best player on the planet having the worst +/- in the entire game in game one.  But that's just me.

[MerrittsMustache]

Also, if there is a "brilliant observation" here I would argue that the Cavs being outscored when the best player on the planet is on the bench (his +/- in game 3) is a lot less surprising than the best player on the planet having the worst +/- in the entire game in game one.  But that's just me.

The observation wasn't just that the Cavs were outscored with LeBron on the bench. It's that they were outscored by 12 points in 2 minutes.

[wadesworld]

The observation wasn't just that the Cavs were outscored with LeBron on the bench. It's that they were outscored by 12 points in 2 minutes.

So the best team, and more important the best shooting team, in the history of the NBA got hot and went on a quick run over a 2:39 period where they went 4-6.  Color me shocked.  That obviously could never happen when LeBron James is on the court like the last 3:40 seconds, he clearly would stop the Warriors from hitting 3 pointers like he did when he let KD step into an in rhythm pullup triple in transition to win the Warriors the game.

[MU82]

So the best team, and more important the best shooting team, in the history of the NBA got hot and went on a quick run over a 2:39 period where they went 4-6.  Color me shocked.  That obviously could never happen when LeBron James is on the court like the last 3:40 seconds, he clearly would stop the Warriors from hitting 3 pointers like he did when he let KD step into an in rhythm pullup triple in transition to win the Warriors the game.

OK, wades, we get it. You hate LeBron.

What really is your point? That LeBron is not the best player? OK ... then what is he, only No. 2? No. 3? That LeBron is not a "winner," despite his 3 rings and 7 straight Finals appearances? That LeBron is a "loser" because he and his inferior cast are about to get swept by arguably the best team in history?

Look, Jordan is the best player I have ever seen. LeBron and Magic are No. 2 and 2A, not necessarily in that order. I suppose one could argue for Wilt (almost before my time), Russell (before my time), West (pretty much before my time), Bird, Duncan and a select few others to be in that top-3, but I would respectfully disagree that any are better than Michael, LeBron and Magic.

But you are free to continually argue that LeBron stinks. That is your right.

[wadesworld]

OK, wades, we get it. You hate LeBron.

What really is your point? That LeBron is not the best player? OK ... then what is he, only No. 2? No. 3? That LeBron is not a "winner," despite his 3 rings and 7 straight Finals appearances? That LeBron is a "loser" because he and his inferior cast are about to get swept by arguably the best team in history?

Look, Jordan is the best player I have ever seen. LeBron and Magic are No. 2 and 2A, not necessarily in that order. I suppose one could argue for Wilt (almost before my time), Russell (before my time), West (pretty much before my time), Bird, Duncan and a select few others to be in that top-3, but I would respectfully disagree that any are better than Michael, LeBron and Magic.

But you are free to continually argue that LeBron stinks. That is your right.

Where in the world did I argue LeBron stinks?  That's my point.  +/- is the absolute worst way you could prove (or disprove) that a player is great (or awful).  I quite literally said LeBron is the best player on the planet multiple times on this page of this thread alone.

[reinko]

Switching gears a bit, read some recent articles about KD being "unselfish", for taking less money to help keep the core of GSW together longer.

My question, is more about perception, why is that KD is unselfish for taking less money than he is owed.  If anything that is selfless, I know I know they sound similar, but cmon.

Also, why in the hell is always up to the player to take less money, when in actuality it's the owner doesn't wanna pay luxury tax? I guess that's why owners are billionaires that can con their way to making folks like us pay for their stadiums and somehow claim how poor they are when they don't want to pay a few extra mill in luxury tax.

/rant over

//get off my lawn

[wadesworld]

Switching gears a bit, read some recent articles about KD being "unselfish", for taking less money to help keep the core of GSW together longer.

My question, is more about perception, why is that KD is unselfish for taking less money than he is owed.  If anything that is selfless, I know I know they sound similar, but cmon.

Also, why in the hell is always up to the player to take less money, when in actuality it's the owner doesn't wanna pay luxury tax? I guess that's why owners are billionaires that can con their way to making folks like us pay for their stadiums and somehow claim how poor they are when they don't want to pay a few extra mill in luxury tax.

/rant over

//get off my lawn

The Warriors will actually be going further into the luxury tax by KD passing up on the extra $4M this year than they would if he took the full amount.  It all has to do with the Bird Rights.  The Warriors will be able to pay their own free agents whatever they command by Durant doing this, and thus will be paying Iggy and Livingston rather than seeing them walk away in free agency because they couldn't afford them had KD taken the full max.  They can now exceed the salary cap to resign their own players.

By signing a non-Bird Rights deal, the Warriors can then sign Iggy and Livingston to Bird-rights deals.  KD will sign a 2 year contract with the 2nd year being a player option at 120% of his 2016-2017 salary, do the same thing next offseason, and then be in line for the "super max" contract the year after that.  Curry can get his super max next offseason and they can keep their core together.