Perspective on Rebuilding

[Lennys Tap]

(like last year, where 3 one-possession games against DePaul, Belmont, and Creighton probably cost us a bid).

Brew, I consider you one of Scoop's MVPs (most valuable posters). But you are also the ultimate optimist who can spin a silk purse from a sow's ears. If we had won against DePaul, Belmont and Creighton - yes, we likely would have snuck into the NCAAs. But winning those games would have meant that we finished 12-0 in games decided by 5 points or less, 14-0 in those decided by 6 or less. We would have had to be the luckiest team in history, and that's not helpful in providing an honest look at where the program really is. We were VERY LUCKY last year to have the record we had - Pomeroy, Sagerin, all agreed that we weren't as good as our non cupcake 12-13 record indicated.

I haven't given up on Wojo - still hope he turns out to be the answer. But we have to look at it realistically. Saying we could have made the NCAAs if we'd been the luckiest team ever - when the reality is that we were a team that didn't make the NIT in spite of more than its share of good luck - doesn't offer a fair assessment.

[MUDPT]

Brew, I consider you one of Scoop's MVPs (most valuable posters). But you are also the ultimate optimist who can spin a silk purse from a sow's ears. If we had won against DePaul, Belmont and Creighton - yes, we likely would have snuck into the NCAAs. But winning those games would have meant that we finished 12-0 in games decided by 5 points or less, 14-0 in those decided by 6 or less. We would have had to be the luckiest team in history, and that's not helpful in providing an honest look at where the program really is. We were VERY LUCKY last year to have the record we had - Pomeroy, Sagerin, all agreed that we weren't as good as our non cupcake 12-13 record indicated.

I haven't given up on Wojo - still hope he turns out to be the answer. But we have to look at it realistically. Saying we could have made the NCAAs if we'd been the luckiest team ever - when the reality is that we were a team that didn't make the NIT in spite of more than its share of good luck - doesn't offer a fair assessment.

This. Should have never been in one possession games at home against DePaul and Belmont if we thought we were going to make the tournament. 

My frustrations:
1. The defense.  If we don't have the athletes to play his style, why are we still doing it?  To me, it looks like they are "over coached" defensively.  They don't play naturally.  High screen comes and everyone starts looking around at where they should be, instead of playing instinctively, as they have done their whole career.  Blame goes to Luke because he isn't quick enough.  I don't remember many teams (maybe '14 Creighton), isolating Davante with a high screen.  Other teams see how terrible we are at rotations, high screen and they will exploit it the rest of the season. Teams are only to get better in conference. Remember how much better they were supposed to be at the beginning of the year last year because we took the Europe trip?  The defense was terrible against Belmont.

2. Is he taking the long view or the short view?  If he is truly building the program for 4 to 5 years, why is Reinhardt on the team now? I understand taking Ellenson, but why use a season to run the offense through him, knowing he's headed to the NBA? Everyone wants to win now, but is at the expense of the future?  It just feels like he's trying to fit round pegs in square holes

Last year's excuse was that everyone was too young.  This year's excuse is that Buzz's guys aren't good enough.As a season ticket holder, I'll probably go to the least amount of games in awhile this year.   

[brewcity77]

Brew, I consider you one of Scoop's MVPs (most valuable posters). But you are also the ultimate optimist who can spin a silk purse from a sow's ears. If we had won against DePaul, Belmont and Creighton - yes, we likely would have snuck into the NCAAs. But winning those games would have meant that we finished 12-0 in games decided by 5 points or less, 14-0 in those decided by 6 or less. We would have had to be the luckiest team in history, and that's not helpful in providing an honest look at where the program really is. We were VERY LUCKY last year to have the record we had - Pomeroy, Sagerin, all agreed that we weren't as good as our non cupcake 12-13 record indicated.

I haven't given up on Wojo - still hope he turns out to be the answer. But we have to look at it realistically. Saying we could have made the NCAAs if we'd been the luckiest team ever - when the reality is that we were a team that didn't make the NIT in spite of more than its share of good luck - doesn't offer a fair assessment.

I've never disputed that. It's definitely a sword that cuts both ways. Hold on to the leads in the last 30 seconds we're in, but we were also undefeated in overtime and generally did well in such games.

I'm not sold on Wojo. The defense needs to improve. However I'm willing to let him get length to prove he can do that. I've long questioned his roster construction. But I think he deserves 5 years and think he had a much tougher road than Buzz did.

[MU82]

When KO took over we were bottom 20 program in the country. Every new coach inherits transfers and so-so players and really not an excuse. Our talent has been upgraded over two years ago but nothing to plan a parade down Wisconsin Ave. over.

Dang! Did I miss the parade down Wisconsin Ave when KO was coach?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

NVM

[79Warrior]

79Warrior

You are correct on national perception of the program. However, it is still our greatest national marketing tool and that cannot be ignored.

Goose,

I am not disputing that. On the other hand, I saw more publicity the last year about Marquette's Law School political polling than any references to Marquette Basketball out here on the west coast. Sadly, we are rapidly slipping out of the conversation

[Goose]

MU82

There should have been parade down Wisconsin Ave by "true" MU fans for the job KO did. It was truly remarkable the job he did on a rebuild.

[keefe]

Or people spreading misinformation about Tony Bennett and Ben Howland being candidates (they weren't)...

Depends on how you define candidate. If you are saying there was no communication with Bennett you are wrong.

[Goose]

Keefe

You are once again spot on!!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Depends on how you define candidate. If you are saying there was no communication with Bennett you are wrong.

It certainly does depend on your definition.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

MU is highly recognized as a BB school outiside US, exposure is probably bigger than most of you think and with Wade and Butler together should trend even higher.

I was actually watching some of the Bulls game last night (watching NBA for me is as close to never) just to see D Wade & The Butler have fun playing together which did seem apparent.

[Goose]

TAMU

There is more Bennett communication than a lot of people know. You have to factor in the outside people that send out feelers in these situations. From what I know it was more than a one and done conversation with him. That might not make him a candidate by your definition but I would argue that is how the process begins.

[GGGG]

Maybe I am in that corner.  One of those dudes.  I was severely disappointed with the Wojo hire because he was an unproven entity.  I had thought that MU had built up enough cachet that we didn't need to go to the bench to get a coach.  I wanted to avoid the growing pains.  We are currently feeling those pains.  So maybe that initial disappointment lingers and I view any mistake that Wojo makes--perceived or actual--as legitimizing my initial doubt.

Name the programs from "Power 6" conferences that can realistically get a proven head coach from programs that are above the "mid-major" level.  There aren't many.

Big Ten:  Only Belein and Crean were successful head coaches at other high level programs.
SEC:  Calipari and Martin.  Barnes and Howland were out of their jobs.
Big East:  No one
Big 12:  Self, Smart, Dixson
Pac 12:  Alford, Miller, Cuonzo (who was desperate to leave Tennessee)
ACC:  Williams, Buzz, Stallings, Pastner, Bennett

So what do you have here?  You have a number coaches who were trying to get out because they saw the writing on the wall (Pastner, Stallings), or coaches who just wanted to leave (Buzz, Cuonzo.)

Only in a couple cases do you have coaches from stable programs above the mid-major level leaving to take one of these jobs.  And they are mostly blue-blood programs.  (Kansas, Texas, Michigan, Indiana, UCLA, Arizona, North Carolina.)  A couple exceptions are South Carolina, TCU and Virginia.

It's not as easy as you think to get coaches in good situations to leave.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

There is more Bennett communication than a lot of people know. You have to factor in the outside people that send out feelers in these situations. From what I know it was more than a one and done conversation with him. That might not make him a candidate by your definition but I would argue that is how the process begins.

That is certainly how some search processes are run. If that is your definition of candidate, then I will say no more.

[Norm]

Dang! Did I miss the parade down Wisconsin Ave when KO was coach?

Well, many students (and a bunch of alumni) ran down Wisconsin Avenue when Marquette upset Kentucky in 1994 to reach the Sweet 16.

[muwarrior69]

The financial stats below for Big East basketball programs come from the Department of Education. Since private institutions don't have to disclose full financial information, the data and comparisons aren't perfect. But I think ROI should be about the last concern about the future of Marquette basketball.

Marquette
$18.6 MM revenue | $12.3 MM expenses | $6.3 MM profit

Villanova
$12.9 MM revenue | $10.7 MM expenses | $2.2 MM profit

Xavier
$12.5 MM revenue | $8.2 MM expenses | $4.3 MM profit

http://college-sports.pointafter.com/compare/11556-13115-15847/Xavier-University-Basketball-vs-Villanova-University-Basketball-vs-Marquette-University-Basketball

Does not pay to be National Champions.

[brewcity77]

I don't necessarily disagree with the ROI argument. I just think it's a tough situation. With a non-state school which is not a coaching destination and not in a "cool" geographic location, I believe a school like MU has to "overspend" to even come close to the blue bloods or even the tier below the blue bloods.

Here's the question though, for the ROI argument: What can MU do with that same bball $$$ amount to improve the ROI? Where can the money be allocated within its bball-sphere to get a better return?

Looking at the 2015 article, our value is down 16.5%. Yes, there are blue bloods in there, but so are programs like Minnesota, Arkansas, Northwestern, Dayton, Penn State, and South Florida.

Winning cures all, so hopefully we'll start to win and see this improve. I realize we'll never eclipse the likes of Louisville, Kentucky, and North Carolina regardless of spending, but I do feel top-2 spending should be able to result in top-15 to 20 value.

As far as what can be done? Expand the brand. Stop having the Spirit Shop as the only real outlet for Marquette gear. There's virtually nothing at Kohl's, Target, or other retailers. Same goes for online. The same products are on every website at similar prices.

Change the student ticket package to a tiered system that allows full season packages or discounted partial season that removes the winter break games. Offer those leftovers to schools and community centers to increase seating at those games and increase interest in the community.

5 years ago, you never saw any red in inner city Milwaukee. Marquette was Milwaukee's urban team. That has changed and I'd like to see it change back. Product availability and outreach could do that.

Hire a marketing firm to improve how Marquette gets its brand out. I'm a fan of the Lights app, but user penetration at the UW game was disappointing after last year and I'd like to see a stronger push to young professionals through social media.

Reach out to big donors about the possibility of a basketball specific dorm like Kentucky has in the Coal Lodge.

I'm sure others have ideas, but I think there's a lot that could be done. Though obviously, getting back to the tournament would be a massive help.

[GoldenDieners32]

Looking at the 2015 article, our value is down 16.5%. Yes, there are blue bloods in there, but so are programs like Minnesota, Arkansas, Northwestern, Dayton, Penn State, and South Florida.

Winning cures all, so hopefully we'll start to win and see this improve. I realize we'll never eclipse the likes of Louisville, Kentucky, and North Carolina regardless of spending, but I do feel top-2 spending should be able to result in top-15 to 20 value.

As far as what can be done? Expand the brand. Stop having the Spirit Shop as the only real outlet for Marquette gear. There's virtually nothing at Kohl's, Target, or other retailers. Same goes for online. The same products are on every website at similar prices.

Change the student ticket package to a tiered system that allows full season packages or discounted partial season that removes the winter break games. Offer those leftovers to schools and community centers to increase seating at those games and increase interest in the community.

5 years ago, you never saw any red in inner city Milwaukee. Marquette was Milwaukee's urban team. That has changed and I'd like to see it change back. Product availability and outreach could do that.

Hire a marketing firm to improve how Marquette gets its brand out. I'm a fan of the Lights app, but user penetration at the UW game was disappointing after last year and I'd like to see a stronger push to young professionals through social media.

Reach out to big donors about the possibility of a basketball specific dorm like Kentucky has in the Coal Lodge.

I'm sure others have ideas, but I think there's a lot that could be done. Though obviously, getting back to the tournament would be a massive help.

This is a huge year for the program, must make the tourney

[GGGG]

dgies

Always respect your posts and your love of the program. I agree with most of your post on the Al crowd , with one exception. If MU is not win at all cost program stop spending money like they are. There are far better use of funds at a university, that is not rolling in the dough, than blowing on a mid tier program. Either get real ROI from the program or downsize and use funds elsewhere.

Goose this doesn't make any sense.

The basketball program generates the revenue it spends - and generates more revenue than it spends.  If you downsize the program, you aren't going to get the FS1 contract.  If you downsize the program, you aren't going to get the donor $$ and season ticket base you have now.

The false assumption is that if you lower your costs to a mid-major program, that the revenue is going to stay the same and can be used elsewhere at the University.  That isn't going to happen.

[Warrior Code]

Looking at the 2015 article, our value is down 16.5%. Yes, there are blue bloods in there, but so are programs like Minnesota, Arkansas, Northwestern, Dayton, Penn State, and South Florida.

Winning cures all, so hopefully we'll start to win and see this improve. I realize we'll never eclipse the likes of Louisville, Kentucky, and North Carolina regardless of spending, but I do feel top-2 spending should be able to result in top-15 to 20 value.

As far as what can be done? Expand the brand. Stop having the Spirit Shop as the only real outlet for Marquette gear. There's virtually nothing at Kohl's, Target, or other retailers. Same goes for online. The same products are on every website at similar prices.

Change the student ticket package to a tiered system that allows full season packages or discounted partial season that removes the winter break games. Offer those leftovers to schools and community centers to increase seating at those games and increase interest in the community.

5 years ago, you never saw any red in inner city Milwaukee. Marquette was Milwaukee's urban team. That has changed and I'd like to see it change back. Product availability and outreach could do that.

Hire a marketing firm to improve how Marquette gets its brand out. I'm a fan of the Lights app, but user penetration at the UW game was disappointing after last year and I'd like to see a stronger push to young professionals through social media.

Reach out to big donors about the possibility of a basketball specific dorm like Kentucky has in the Coal Lodge.

I'm sure others have ideas, but I think there's a lot that could be done. Though obviously, getting back to the tournament would be a massive help.

This has always frustrated me. Not only is the gear hard to find, a lot of it isn't designed that well (in my opinion). Even though I'm a huge MU supporter, I feel like I would only wear a fraction of the small amount of gear that actually is available. It's pretty slim pickin's.

[NotAnAlum]

This is a huge year for the program, must make the tourney

I started this topic and I guess it must be time to end it because this statement is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the point I was making.

[MerrittsMustache]

Change the student ticket package to a tiered system that allows full season packages or discounted partial season that removes the winter break games. Offer those leftovers to schools and community centers to increase seating at those games and increase interest in the community.

5 years ago, you never saw any red in inner city Milwaukee. Marquette was Milwaukee's urban team. That has changed and I'd like to see it change back. Product availability and outreach could do that.

I like the student ticket idea and the idea of passing along the open student tickets to schools in Milwaukee over breaks.

There is more red in the inner city because Wisconsin basketball has been really good lately, while MU has been down. It's similar to how no one ever saw a GS Warriors jersey in Milwaukee until 2 years ago 

[Goose]

Vinnie

You could have Brian Wardle as HC for 20 years at 700k a year and be a bottom half BE team. No need for all the extra expenditures and see what happens. I cannot believe that revenues are not down drastically in regards to the program over the past several years.

I never said downsize the program, I suggested downsizing the budget. I truthfully do not believe have Wardle as HC and lower budget would affect much, with exception of fans have realistic expectations. For the record, I am NOT in the downsize the budget camp. I am in spend as much money as you can and be the best program they can be camp.

[brewcity77]

There is more red in the inner city because Wisconsin basketball has been really good lately, while MU has been down. It's similar to how no one ever saw a GS Warriors jersey in Milwaukee until 2 years ago 

The thing is, Wisconsin has been good for 15 years. A decade of success didn't get them inner city penetration. Have the past three years been tough in that regard? Sure, but I think Marquette could do more to stem the 180 that I've seen on Milwaukee's streets.

[MU82]

MU82

There should have been parade down Wisconsin Ave by "true" MU fans for the job KO did. It was truly remarkable the job he did on a rebuild.

Rather than go into this here, I just started a Wojo vs. KO thread. Enjoy.